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thermal radiation and EM radiation


thermal radiation and EM radiation01-03-2020 00:14
keepit
★★★★☆
(1220)
What is the difference? Thermal radiation is radiation from a warm object and EM radiation is what results from the oscillation of an electric or magnetic field.
The earth provides thermal radiation to the atmosphere in places where the earth is warmer than the atmosphere and then the atmosphere equilibrates over the earth. EM radiation i large part comes from the sun and gives thermal energy to the atmosphere and the earth. Comments and criticism welcome.
Edited on 01-03-2020 00:15
01-03-2020 06:38
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1743)
keepit wrote:
What is the difference? Thermal radiation is radiation from a warm object and EM radiation is what results from the oscillation of an electric or magnetic field.
The earth provides thermal radiation to the atmosphere in places where the earth is warmer than the atmosphere and then the atmosphere equilibrates over the earth. EM radiation i large part comes from the sun and gives thermal energy to the atmosphere and the earth. Comments and criticism welcome.


I think you are a little confused, which isn't surprising...

I did sort of wonder something about whether EM energy could really be the reason why some think there is global warming. With the industrial revolution, also came the creation of EM, from the machines. Starting in the 1800s, we started stringing wire for communication. Then there was electricity in in every home. Lights, motors, radio, has been growing fast every since. We are producing a very large amount of EM these days, and continually adding more. Not everyone had 4g cell phone coverage, and there is already 5g, and it's a much higher frequency. We've enjoyed GPS for a while, and those satellites are close to retirement. Already several, more accurate, and powerful replacement already sent up. Elon Musk is sending up thousands of satellites for worldwide internet
01-03-2020 06:39
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2520)
keepit wrote:
What is the difference? Thermal radiation is radiation from a warm object and EM radiation is what results from the oscillation of an electric or magnetic field.
The earth provides thermal radiation to the atmosphere in places where the earth is warmer than the atmosphere and then the atmosphere equilibrates over the earth. EM radiation i large part comes from the sun and gives thermal energy to the atmosphere and the earth. Comments and criticism welcome.


I didn't actually follow that keepit. My understanding is that all "radiance" is EM, or "electro magnetic" radiance".

https://www.livescience.com/38169-electromagnetism.html



Not TV and Radio in there with visible light. I think the only differences are frequency. I'm not assuming you didn't know that but your post seemed to imply a distinction between one type of radiance and another.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
01-03-2020 07:07
keepit
★★★★☆
(1220)
Maybe i'm guilty of using my own definitions to communicate. Sorry.
Anyway EM radiation is what you think it is - the oscillation of an electric field. On the other hand thermal radiation is the transfer of thermal energy from one mass to another. Convection would be an example. The key here is that thermal radiation isn't dependent on wavelength. I could be off on this.

Harvey - Often wrong, never in doubt.
Edited on 01-03-2020 07:08
01-03-2020 07:30
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2520)
keepit wrote:
Maybe i'm guilty of using my own definitions to communicate. Sorry.
Anyway EM radiation is what you think it is - the oscillation of an electric field. On the other hand thermal radiation is the transfer of thermal energy from one mass to another. Convection would be an example. The key here is that thermal radiation isn't dependent on wavelength. I could be off on this.

Harvey - Often wrong, never in doubt.


Yeah don't call convection radiation that causes unnecessary problems with communication.

"Thermal radiation is electromagnetic radiation" period. It's actually a poor choice of words at that. Just calling it radiation works.

There is direct thermal energy movement, with conduction and convection, and the transformation of thermal energy into radiance, and then back into thermal energy which you have with radiant transfer of thermal energy.

But what were you wondering about?
01-03-2020 08:08
keepit
★★★★☆
(1220)
Tmid,
OK, got it.
I was trying to point out that energy can be transferred in ways other than em radiation. In some parts of the earth and at some times the temp of the air is higher than the temp of the earth and vice versa. This results in energy going in different directions. The energy is transferred in the atmosphere as convection from the equator northward, for example.
I should have used the phrase thermal energy rather than thermal radiation. Mistake!
Thermal energy transfer is like saying heat is happening.
Edited on 01-03-2020 08:54
01-03-2020 22:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
keepit wrote:
What is the difference? Thermal radiation is radiation from a warm object and EM radiation is what results from the oscillation of an electric or magnetic field.
The earth provides thermal radiation to the atmosphere in places where the earth is warmer than the atmosphere and then the atmosphere equilibrates over the earth. EM radiation i large part comes from the sun and gives thermal energy to the atmosphere and the earth. Comments and criticism welcome.


Light isn't thermal energy. Light emitted due to Earth's radiance goes into space. The atmosphere does not trap light.


The Parrot Killer
01-03-2020 22:06
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
keepit wrote:
Maybe i'm guilty of using my own definitions to communicate. Sorry.
Anyway EM radiation is what you think it is - the oscillation of an electric field. On the other hand thermal radiation is the transfer of thermal energy from one mass to another.
There is no such thing as 'thermal radiation'. Thermal energy is not electromagnetic energy.
keepit wrote:
Convection would be an example.
Convection is not radiance or radiation.
keepit wrote:
The key here is that thermal radiation isn't dependent on wavelength. I could be off on this.

Radiance due to the Stefan-Boltzmann law is all frequencies combined.


The Parrot Killer
01-03-2020 22:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11753)
keepit wrote:
Tmid,
OK, got it.
I was trying to point out that energy can be transferred in ways other than em radiation. In some parts of the earth and at some times the temp of the air is higher than the temp of the earth and vice versa. This results in energy going in different directions. The energy is transferred in the atmosphere as convection from the equator northward, for example.
I should have used the phrase thermal energy rather than thermal radiation. Mistake!
Thermal energy transfer is like saying heat is happening.


Heat is the flow of thermal energy. That is the very definition of heat.

That can take place by radiance (and absorption), convection, or conduction.


The Parrot Killer
01-03-2020 23:36
keepit
★★★★☆
(1220)
Yeah. Somehow i accidentally slipped in the the phrase "thermal radiation" when i meant thermal energy transfer. So sue me.




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