Remember me
▼ Content

The World Need A New International Income Wage Index Based On Price Of Silver, Gold



Page 3 of 3<123
03-10-2020 22:52
James___
★★★★★
(3283)
It'd be easy enough to say the amount of currency in circulation. Then how much in a given country's currency does it cost to buy manufactured goods? That would give an exchange rate base on the value for the same goods in countries that do trade with each other.
04-10-2020 00:14
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

There is no such thing as a 'Market Maker'


You are unbelievable! Get your friends to put your above quote in their signatures.

Go look up the company Citadel. They provide market making services.

Check out this interview with a market maker https://youtu.be/KRz259u6A6w and see if you can learn the distinction between a market maker and a broker.

You double down on your lies even when they become obvious.


These are people who buy and sell or commodities. They are brokers. They do not set the price.


Here is an article clearly spelling out the differences between market makers and brokers.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/brokerandmarketmaker.asp

"Market makers essentially act as wholesalers by buying and selling securities to satisfy the market—the prices they set reflect market supply and demand."
04-10-2020 00:23
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Everyone can cover all of their expenses without going into debt, if they choose to.


Really? How so?


Simple. Don't go into debt.


Debt has been and is how cash is created.
04-10-2020 00:26
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Cash is not debt. There is no such thing as a 'net' between apples and oranges.


Cash is positive, Debt is negative, and the net is the sum of them both. Got it?


Debt is not cash. There is no 'net'.


You can't have cash without debt. Net means the total cash and debt combined.
04-10-2020 00:28
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2533)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

There is no such thing as a 'Market Maker'


You are unbelievable! Get your friends to put your above quote in their signatures.

Go look up the company Citadel. They provide market making services.

Check out this interview with a market maker https://youtu.be/KRz259u6A6w and see if you can learn the distinction between a market maker and a broker.

You double down on your lies even when they become obvious.


These are people who buy and sell or commodities. They are brokers. They do not set the price.


Here is an article clearly spelling out the differences between market makers and brokers.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/brokerandmarketmaker.asp

"Market makers essentially act as wholesalers by buying and selling securities to satisfy the market—the prices they set reflect market supply and demand."


So 'market maker'. is a buzzword for market manipulator? They buy up securities, to give a false sense of an upward trend. Or they dump them cheap, to imply that they are losing value, get out quick.
04-10-2020 00:30
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

You are attempting to use 'economy' as money. Redefinition fallacy.


No I'm not.

The economy is all the goods and services being supplied and demanded.

Paradox. Irrational. You are still locked in paradox. You must clear your paradox. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Money is created when banks loan it to businesses so they can supply goods and services demanded.

No. Money is created when a government 'prints' it by expanding M1.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The histories of money transactions can give an indication of supply and demand.

No. Money is a trade medium, not an indicator of supply and demand.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It may be hard to figure out supply and demand without the information extrapolated from money transactions. But these days with cool spreadsheet and supply chain programs such information may be easier to extrapolate.

Magick Spreadsheets are not crystal balls. They cannot foretell the future.

The spread of a stock or commodity is determined by the broker, not anything like a 'market maker'. It is the price you pay for using the broker. It doesn't matter if it's a stock (popular or not), or a commodity like corn or gold.

Think of it as a markup price implemented by a broker. He is a merchant, like any other.


What paradox???

Can money foretell the future???
04-10-2020 00:37
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

There is no such thing as a 'Market Maker'


You are unbelievable! Get your friends to put your above quote in their signatures.

Go look up the company Citadel. They provide market making services.

Check out this interview with a market maker https://youtu.be/KRz259u6A6w and see if you can learn the distinction between a market maker and a broker.

You double down on your lies even when they become obvious.


These are people who buy and sell or commodities. They are brokers. They do not set the price.


Here is an article clearly spelling out the differences between market makers and brokers.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/brokerandmarketmaker.asp

"Market makers essentially act as wholesalers by buying and selling securities to satisfy the market—the prices they set reflect market supply and demand."


So 'market maker'. is a buzzword for market manipulator? They buy up securities, to give a false sense of an upward trend. Or they dump them cheap, to imply that they are losing value, get out quick.




How else are you going to make a market???

One of the many perks of capitalism!
Edited on 04-10-2020 01:17
04-10-2020 02:30
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
SI: You are the one trying to confuse me into conflating wealth with money when no confusion is present. I have barely talked about wealth, except to imagine a world where you don't need money to create wealth: If there becomes no money, a baker would not need to directly give a car dealer 10,000 loafs of bread to buy a car. That is a straw man argument. They are both part of a larger economy. They don't directly deal with each other, but they both give their goods into the economy. There is no need for them to trade with each other directly.


How does the economy work then? The baker needs a car, has to go where someone is selling cars, to pick one out, and negotiate the deal. The baker, would of course have other stuff to trade, besides bread, from his bread baking business. The car dealer would need to look through a long list, maybe visit where the baker keeps his trade goods, to see what would be acceptable. Money just makes the exchange so much simpler, since it's less likely to spoil, or be damaged, while waiting to be exchanged for other goods and services, a person might want or need. Your model also depends on the baker even having the trade goods, a car dealer might want or need. The value of a dollar, is how much work you had to put into earning it, and how badly a seller needs to part with his product or service.


As long as all the businesses which are connected to each other in an economy have a good sense of what demand they need to supply, and they do the needed work to provide supply to demand, then nothing you described about trading loaves and baked goods for cars is necessary, is it?


What's the connection? How is one company's product or service connected to every other business, without money? Is it a credit system? All on paper? You still have a bunch of good and services available, that not everyone is going to want or need. It presumes that every business knows what each individual is entitled, at every other business. People tend to be a little greedy and dishonest as well. People move around too. Each community, has it's own economy. I'm just having trouble seeing how eliminating money is advantageous to anyone. When I go to work, I have a pretty good idea what is required, and how much compensation I'll need to make the required labor, worth the time and effort. I know the price of the goods and services in the area I live. If the job doesn't pay what I want or need, I don't have to accept working there, or I can take on additional jobs to make up the difference. When I'm buying stuff, there are often options of similar business, some willing to negotiate a little on prices. They charge too much, potential customers don't buy there. What they are selling, is only worth as much, as someone else is willing to pay. If the baker charges too much for a loaf of bread, people can always bake their own bread. The baker needs to lower his price, since his products need to move, limited shelf life. If I can bake bread myself, for a fraction of what the baker charges, I could also sell to my neighbors.


Honor system. Greater freedom.

If you give what others need and want, why can't you take what you need and want, without transacting with money?

The other may not have what you need and want. Without money, you cannot trade with him to get what you need and want. You have to find someone to trade with that has what you need and want, and needs or wants what you have to trade.

Rather inconvenient.

With money, you can trade what you have for money (if the other is using the same money). You can then use that money to trade for what you need and want with those that have it.

Much more convenient.


Not enough participation from people who have things which many others want. I will give you this obstruction for now.
04-10-2020 05:57
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2533)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
SI: You are the one trying to confuse me into conflating wealth with money when no confusion is present. I have barely talked about wealth, except to imagine a world where you don't need money to create wealth: If there becomes no money, a baker would not need to directly give a car dealer 10,000 loafs of bread to buy a car. That is a straw man argument. They are both part of a larger economy. They don't directly deal with each other, but they both give their goods into the economy. There is no need for them to trade with each other directly.


How does the economy work then? The baker needs a car, has to go where someone is selling cars, to pick one out, and negotiate the deal. The baker, would of course have other stuff to trade, besides bread, from his bread baking business. The car dealer would need to look through a long list, maybe visit where the baker keeps his trade goods, to see what would be acceptable. Money just makes the exchange so much simpler, since it's less likely to spoil, or be damaged, while waiting to be exchanged for other goods and services, a person might want or need. Your model also depends on the baker even having the trade goods, a car dealer might want or need. The value of a dollar, is how much work you had to put into earning it, and how badly a seller needs to part with his product or service.


As long as all the businesses which are connected to each other in an economy have a good sense of what demand they need to supply, and they do the needed work to provide supply to demand, then nothing you described about trading loaves and baked goods for cars is necessary, is it?


What's the connection? How is one company's product or service connected to every other business, without money? Is it a credit system? All on paper? You still have a bunch of good and services available, that not everyone is going to want or need. It presumes that every business knows what each individual is entitled, at every other business. People tend to be a little greedy and dishonest as well. People move around too. Each community, has it's own economy. I'm just having trouble seeing how eliminating money is advantageous to anyone. When I go to work, I have a pretty good idea what is required, and how much compensation I'll need to make the required labor, worth the time and effort. I know the price of the goods and services in the area I live. If the job doesn't pay what I want or need, I don't have to accept working there, or I can take on additional jobs to make up the difference. When I'm buying stuff, there are often options of similar business, some willing to negotiate a little on prices. They charge too much, potential customers don't buy there. What they are selling, is only worth as much, as someone else is willing to pay. If the baker charges too much for a loaf of bread, people can always bake their own bread. The baker needs to lower his price, since his products need to move, limited shelf life. If I can bake bread myself, for a fraction of what the baker charges, I could also sell to my neighbors.


Honor system. Greater freedom.

If you give what others need and want, why can't you take what you need and want, without transacting with money?

The other may not have what you need and want. Without money, you cannot trade with him to get what you need and want. You have to find someone to trade with that has what you need and want, and needs or wants what you have to trade.

Rather inconvenient.

With money, you can trade what you have for money (if the other is using the same money). You can then use that money to trade for what you need and want with those that have it.

Much more convenient.


Not enough participation from people who have things which many others want. I will give you this obstruction for now.


You never really addressed the 'connected' part of you barter scheme. An individual would mostly just keep on hand, things he needs and uses. Seems like and odd notion to stock and store a bunch of basically random items, just for trade purposes. I've bartered many times. Sometimes is a straight swap, sometimes cash makes up the difference. I don't see doing that all the time though. Bartering is fine, when both parties have something the other wants, or needs. If I want or need something, how much trouble is going to be to find somebody who has it, and willing to trade for something I have to offer? With money, I can carry it with me, and just need to find what I want, for the price I'm willing to pay.
04-10-2020 08:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

There is no such thing as a 'Market Maker'


You are unbelievable! Get your friends to put your above quote in their signatures.

Go look up the company Citadel. They provide market making services.

Check out this interview with a market maker https://youtu.be/KRz259u6A6w and see if you can learn the distinction between a market maker and a broker.

You double down on your lies even when they become obvious.


These are people who buy and sell or commodities. They are brokers. They do not set the price.


Here is an article clearly spelling out the differences between market makers and brokers.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/brokerandmarketmaker.asp

"Market makers essentially act as wholesalers by buying and selling securities to satisfy the market—the prices they set reflect market supply and demand."


There are no wholesalers of securities. No one controls the securities markets.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
04-10-2020 08:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Everyone can cover all of their expenses without going into debt, if they choose to.


Really? How so?


Simple. Don't go into debt.


Debt has been and is how cash is created.

Debt is not cash. It does not create cash.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
04-10-2020 08:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Cash is not debt. There is no such thing as a 'net' between apples and oranges.


Cash is positive, Debt is negative, and the net is the sum of them both. Got it?


Debt is not cash. There is no 'net'.


You can't have cash without debt. Net means the total cash and debt combined.

Debt is not cash. Debt does not create cash.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
04-10-2020 08:32
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

There is no such thing as a 'Market Maker'


You are unbelievable! Get your friends to put your above quote in their signatures.

Go look up the company Citadel. They provide market making services.

Check out this interview with a market maker https://youtu.be/KRz259u6A6w and see if you can learn the distinction between a market maker and a broker.

You double down on your lies even when they become obvious.


These are people who buy and sell or commodities. They are brokers. They do not set the price.


Here is an article clearly spelling out the differences between market makers and brokers.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/brokerandmarketmaker.asp

"Market makers essentially act as wholesalers by buying and selling securities to satisfy the market—the prices they set reflect market supply and demand."


So 'market maker'. is a buzzword for market manipulator? They buy up securities, to give a false sense of an upward trend. Or they dump them cheap, to imply that they are losing value, get out quick.

'Market maker' is a buzzword. He thinks there is some kind of wholesaler of securities.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
04-10-2020 08:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

You are attempting to use 'economy' as money. Redefinition fallacy.


No I'm not.

The economy is all the goods and services being supplied and demanded.

Paradox. Irrational. You are still locked in paradox. You must clear your paradox. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Money is created when banks loan it to businesses so they can supply goods and services demanded.

No. Money is created when a government 'prints' it by expanding M1.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The histories of money transactions can give an indication of supply and demand.

No. Money is a trade medium, not an indicator of supply and demand.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It may be hard to figure out supply and demand without the information extrapolated from money transactions. But these days with cool spreadsheet and supply chain programs such information may be easier to extrapolate.

Magick Spreadsheets are not crystal balls. They cannot foretell the future.

The spread of a stock or commodity is determined by the broker, not anything like a 'market maker'. It is the price you pay for using the broker. It doesn't matter if it's a stock (popular or not), or a commodity like corn or gold.

Think of it as a markup price implemented by a broker. He is a merchant, like any other.


What paradox???

Can money foretell the future???

RQAA.

Your current paradoxes:

1) The Arctic is warming.
2) The Arctic is cooling.

1) Money is a zero sum game.
2) Money is created along with wealth.

1) Money is created along with wealth.
2) Money is not created along with wealth.

1) Brokers set prices.
2) Brokers do not set prices.

1) Money is wealth.
2) Money is not wealth.

1) Economy is money.
2) Economy is not money.

Feel like clearing any?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
04-10-2020 08:35
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

There is no such thing as a 'Market Maker'


You are unbelievable! Get your friends to put your above quote in their signatures.

Go look up the company Citadel. They provide market making services.

Check out this interview with a market maker https://youtu.be/KRz259u6A6w and see if you can learn the distinction between a market maker and a broker.

You double down on your lies even when they become obvious.


These are people who buy and sell or commodities. They are brokers. They do not set the price.


Here is an article clearly spelling out the differences between market makers and brokers.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/brokerandmarketmaker.asp

"Market makers essentially act as wholesalers by buying and selling securities to satisfy the market—the prices they set reflect market supply and demand."


So 'market maker'. is a buzzword for market manipulator? They buy up securities, to give a false sense of an upward trend. Or they dump them cheap, to imply that they are losing value, get out quick.




How else are you going to make a market???

One of the many perks of capitalism!

There is no wholesaler of securities. You create a market by providing a product or a service that people want. That's capitalism.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
05-10-2020 05:31
EconomySavior
☆☆☆☆☆
(2)
You guys are wasting time to debate because it is all about solution and idea to get the job done.
The only way to end the global conflict is listen and using my strategy, there is none other solution can solve the global conflict except the one below !

Key Solution For The Global Currency Reset Must Be 2 New Separate Money Note Types: Domestic In-Nation & Global International

Because that is the divine way of life.
That is the way no any entities/beings can counter it even me (unless using weather weapon natural gods).

The trust of people with politicians highest at their local council/city and lowest at the top for sure.
While you cannot change the "trust" between nations for their different situation and knowledge.
So you can only separate money type and do whatever you want with your own domestic in-nation money note.
The global international money notes will be remain like now.

But domestic money note alone is not enough, you must give power of control the money to the winning local political party/government.
Then whatever idea/theory they think "good" or "bad" for the economy will be witness with real life experience, not via only stupid theory debate battle.

You can have an absolutely zero tax for local domestic goods services including people income tax, but only charge some tax for foreign goods related entities.

You will going to have 500+ new local domestic currencies and various global international currencies, instead of stupid only international money notes like now.

I am very fair so I am not going to tell what you should do with your nations, I only give you the global solution for the economy crisis.

You can using it but must needed a special permission from me the Savior in order to using it for whatever purpose.

Best Regard,
The Savior

The Savior Introduce The New Final Ultimate Fair International Financial System 2020

This solution/idea/strategy belong to me the Savior many called Messiah Mahdi Maitreya Buddha any other names. Any beings/entities/governments are required a special permission from me in order to using it for any purpose, at forum freejoy.aimoo.com.

The current financial system is outdated and have a big flaw which require "natural resources" in order to "insert" money into the system.

You can easily live without all kind of gold, silver, oil, gas, etc.

In all nations there are always 2 kind of products: domestic and foreign.
In all banks there are always 2 kind of bank card: domestic and international.
But in money: there is only 1 type of money which is global international currency.

So the solution for the global crisis is very simple: have 2 type of money currency domestic in-nation and international global one.
............

Full Info & Source: freejoy.aimoo.com
05-10-2020 07:47
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2533)
I doubt most people, like myself would ever have much need or use of international (socialist) currency. I live in America, work in America, and send my paycheck in America. Well, occasionally, I order stuff off Amazon, and don't catch it's coming from China, on a slow boat, 4-6 weeks for delivery. I do try to avoid that, even if it's really, really cheap.

A global, international currency, would require a global, governing body to manage and regulate it. Essentially creating a global government, with complete control over international (global) trade and economics. Governments are governments, and steal wealth. Can't imagine a global socialist government being good for anyone.
05-10-2020 23:49
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

There is no such thing as a 'Market Maker'


You are unbelievable! Get your friends to put your above quote in their signatures.

Go look up the company Citadel. They provide market making services.

Check out this interview with a market maker https://youtu.be/KRz259u6A6w and see if you can learn the distinction between a market maker and a broker.

You double down on your lies even when they become obvious.


These are people who buy and sell or commodities. They are brokers. They do not set the price.


Here is an article clearly spelling out the differences between market makers and brokers.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/brokerandmarketmaker.asp

"Market makers essentially act as wholesalers by buying and selling securities to satisfy the market—the prices they set reflect market supply and demand."


There are no wholesalers of securities. No one controls the securities markets.


Blatant denial of evidence by narrowing the definition of wholesale.
05-10-2020 23:56
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

You are attempting to use 'economy' as money. Redefinition fallacy.


No I'm not.

The economy is all the goods and services being supplied and demanded.

Paradox. Irrational. You are still locked in paradox. You must clear your paradox. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Money is created when banks loan it to businesses so they can supply goods and services demanded.

No. Money is created when a government 'prints' it by expanding M1.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The histories of money transactions can give an indication of supply and demand.

No. Money is a trade medium, not an indicator of supply and demand.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It may be hard to figure out supply and demand without the information extrapolated from money transactions. But these days with cool spreadsheet and supply chain programs such information may be easier to extrapolate.

Magick Spreadsheets are not crystal balls. They cannot foretell the future.

The spread of a stock or commodity is determined by the broker, not anything like a 'market maker'. It is the price you pay for using the broker. It doesn't matter if it's a stock (popular or not), or a commodity like corn or gold.

Think of it as a markup price implemented by a broker. He is a merchant, like any other.


What paradox???

Can money foretell the future???

RQAA.

Your current paradoxes:

1) The Arctic is warming.
2) The Arctic is cooling.

1) Money is a zero sum game.
2) Money is created along with wealth.

1) Money is created along with wealth.
2) Money is not created along with wealth.

1) Brokers set prices.
2) Brokers do not set prices.

1) Money is wealth.
2) Money is not wealth.

1) Economy is money.
2) Economy is not money.

Feel like clearing any?


What is RQAA?

The Arctic warms in summer and cools in winter.

Money is created by debt. Add them both up and you get zero.

I never said the economy and wealth are money.
Edited on 05-10-2020 23:56
06-10-2020 00:00
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Cash is not debt. There is no such thing as a 'net' between apples and oranges.


Cash is positive, Debt is negative, and the net is the sum of them both. Got it?


Debt is not cash. There is no 'net'.


You can't have cash without debt. Net means the total cash and debt combined.

Debt is not cash. Debt does not create cash.


How does cash created?

By getting a loan from a bank.
Edited on 06-10-2020 00:14
06-10-2020 02:55
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2533)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Cash is not debt. There is no such thing as a 'net' between apples and oranges.


Cash is positive, Debt is negative, and the net is the sum of them both. Got it?


Debt is not cash. There is no 'net'.


You can't have cash without debt. Net means the total cash and debt combined.

Debt is not cash. Debt does not create cash.


How does cash created?

By getting a loan from a bank.


That's really odd, I've been completely debt-free since 2007... No loans, no credit cards. I get my cash from working. I did have a mortgage on on my house, and credit cards. After paying off the house loan, I had a considerable amount if extra cash every month. Didn't take long to pay of the credit cards. Had no use for credit, so lost the cards, and stayed out of debt ever since. Of course, my 'credit score' is probably in the very bad range. Which really isn't that bad, since it would be very hard for some one to get credit in my name. I may not get a really good rate, but I own property, to use as collateral, and can still get a loan, if needed. Cash is created by providing goods or services. In my case, my product, is labor.
06-10-2020 03:09
James___
★★★★★
(3283)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Cash is not debt. There is no such thing as a 'net' between apples and oranges.


Cash is positive, Debt is negative, and the net is the sum of them both. Got it?


Debt is not cash. There is no 'net'.


You can't have cash without debt. Net means the total cash and debt combined.

Debt is not cash. Debt does not create cash.


How does cash created?

By getting a loan from a bank.



Cash replaced the barter system. Then the "Gold" standard was created. And then countries went away from that. All cash is in essence is a common value for bartering trade with.
Between countries, what does a smartphone or a tv cost? In Mexico, videos still rent on tape like at Blockbuster Video while in the US, it's streamed.
You can also look at the minimum wage. That tends to determine the bottom of a country's economy.
Today, governments fuel economies. Without deficit spending there would be no infusion of money to allow technological growth. Between businesses investing in new products and consumers borrowing to pay for those new products, not really possible without government spending.
Basically consumer debt determines an economy and an advanced economy requires more capital.


One example is the US national debt as with Germany and other advanced economies is similar to their GDP. GDP is basically the base valuation of any economy plus business and consumer debt.
Basically, if an economy is to grow every year by 4%, then either debt or a trade surplus needs to occur. And if people save money in their 401Ks, then money is being taken out of the economy and placed in the stock market.
In this instance, the stock values increase while the economy contracts. This in turn makes stocks even more valuable. Until the bubble bursts and then we have Great Recessions.
Edited on 06-10-2020 03:27
06-10-2020 05:48
keepit
★★★★☆
(1704)
James,
That last part of your last post is really interesting.
06-10-2020 06:28
James___
★★★★★
(3283)
keepit wrote:
James,
That last part of your last post is really interesting.



Thanks keepit. With 401Ks, if a person saves 10% of their gross pay, that is tax free. As a country, that would contract the GDP by the amount inflation does not account for.
And if an economy is to increase, then money removed from circulation in the form of savings needs to be accounted for. This might be where government spending makes up the difference.
If so, then when agencies like the GAO consider an economy, it would be something they need to consider.
06-10-2020 07:14
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
Ya James this part interesting.

"And if people save money in their 401Ks, then money is being taken out of the economy and placed in the stock market.
In this instance, the stock values increase while the economy contracts."

Saving money is a squeeze on the economy.

Or you could cite the biblical verse, "love of money is root of evil"

https://youtu.be/lAD6Obi7Cag
Edited on 06-10-2020 07:18
06-10-2020 11:25
KingSavior
☆☆☆☆☆
(2)
The Only Working Solution For World Economy Conflict Is Upgrading The Global Financial System

The current financial system is like the flow of water in big ocean.
The economy conflict battle between nations because they are fighting for a spot in the rivers.

Why there is migration crisis?
Because the currency rate is "high", thus receive "higher" money value for the same job, only different is at what location what nations.

Why there is trade war?
Because nations is not allow to print and use money freely.
Because you cannot allow to do anything you want in a big ocean of water.

The root world economy problem of all is the current global financial system.
So the only working solution is to upgrading the current global financial system to fairer better for all.
What is fairer better for all is depend on each nations each people's vision and knowledge of life.

There are 2 types of products and services: essential and non-essential.
There is nothing wrong for any national government desire to able to produce essential products services, rather than rely on others because of a stupid reason number value on money fiat paper !

But since you are already have and living in a big ocean full of water, you can only create your own swimming pool, lakes. The current financial system is similar to that picture.

The only working solution to satisfy most people most nations is divide and have 2 type of money: domestic and international.

Domestic currencies for basic essential products services.
International global money currencies for premium non-essential products.

Because the new global system so all nations will have the same starting point and both advantage disadvantage.

If you think like a true king,then the domestic currencies will set, managed by each national government. While the international currencies will be based on pure supply and demand of the market.

There is no need of any government to direct control the non-essential products, international currencies.

All they need is to control the local domestic currencies only.
There will be many various methods such as little to no tax for domestic products, free domestic money for all at control small amount like 3 month of average salary income per year, etc.

The international currencies will be remain like now which required natural resources in order to insert money into the system.

You cannot satisfy all beings, the loser groups will have to make change to save their own life, and the winner groups must to follow or going to vanish.

You must give back power to the people.
And the true power of any government is not the title but ability to print endless enough money and control the local economy system of their own people.

It is going to encourage people to be more creative to create more unique products services.

New era, new global financial system, new game, new life !

Don't forget to receive the special permission from me the author Savior of this godlike idea solution.

Best Regard,
The Savior

Source: freejoy.aimoo.com
07-10-2020 01:22
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
[img][/img]
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
James,
That last part of your last post is really interesting.



Thanks keepit. With 401Ks, if a person saves 10% of their gross pay, that is tax free. As a country, that would contract the GDP by the amount inflation does not account for.
And if an economy is to increase, then money removed from circulation in the form of savings needs to be accounted for. This might be where government spending makes up the difference.
If so, then when agencies like the GAO consider an economy, it would be something they need to consider.


James I think government spending is now, and has been, making up for the economic squeeze which occurs when people save money. It's why they have $27 trillion in debt.


07-10-2020 04:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

There is no such thing as a 'Market Maker'


You are unbelievable! Get your friends to put your above quote in their signatures.

Go look up the company Citadel. They provide market making services.

Check out this interview with a market maker https://youtu.be/KRz259u6A6w and see if you can learn the distinction between a market maker and a broker.

You double down on your lies even when they become obvious.


These are people who buy and sell or commodities. They are brokers. They do not set the price.


Here is an article clearly spelling out the differences between market makers and brokers.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/brokerandmarketmaker.asp

"Market makers essentially act as wholesalers by buying and selling securities to satisfy the market—the prices they set reflect market supply and demand."


There are no wholesalers of securities. No one controls the securities markets.


Blatant denial of evidence by narrowing the definition of wholesale.

I'm not narrowing the definition of wholesale.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
07-10-2020 04:14
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

You are attempting to use 'economy' as money. Redefinition fallacy.


No I'm not.

The economy is all the goods and services being supplied and demanded.

Paradox. Irrational. You are still locked in paradox. You must clear your paradox. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Money is created when banks loan it to businesses so they can supply goods and services demanded.

No. Money is created when a government 'prints' it by expanding M1.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The histories of money transactions can give an indication of supply and demand.

No. Money is a trade medium, not an indicator of supply and demand.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It may be hard to figure out supply and demand without the information extrapolated from money transactions. But these days with cool spreadsheet and supply chain programs such information may be easier to extrapolate.

Magick Spreadsheets are not crystal balls. They cannot foretell the future.

The spread of a stock or commodity is determined by the broker, not anything like a 'market maker'. It is the price you pay for using the broker. It doesn't matter if it's a stock (popular or not), or a commodity like corn or gold.

Think of it as a markup price implemented by a broker. He is a merchant, like any other.


What paradox???

Can money foretell the future???

RQAA.

Your current paradoxes:

1) The Arctic is warming.
2) The Arctic is cooling.

1) Money is a zero sum game.
2) Money is created along with wealth.

1) Money is created along with wealth.
2) Money is not created along with wealth.

1) Brokers set prices.
2) Brokers do not set prices.

1) Money is wealth.
2) Money is not wealth.

1) Economy is money.
2) Economy is not money.

Feel like clearing any?


What is RQAA?

Repetitive Question Already Answered.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The Arctic warms in summer and cools in winter.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Money is created by debt. Add them both up and you get zero.

No. Money is not debt. Redefinition fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
I never said the economy and wealth are money.

Yes you have, liar.

I guess you don't want to clear any of your paradoxes.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
07-10-2020 04:14
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Cash is not debt. There is no such thing as a 'net' between apples and oranges.


Cash is positive, Debt is negative, and the net is the sum of them both. Got it?


Debt is not cash. There is no 'net'.


You can't have cash without debt. Net means the total cash and debt combined.

Debt is not cash. Debt does not create cash.


How does cash created?

By getting a loan from a bank.


No. Cash is created by a government printing it (or electronically by raising M1). RQAA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
07-10-2020 04:16
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
Spongy Iris wrote:
[img][/img]
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
James,
That last part of your last post is really interesting.



Thanks keepit. With 401Ks, if a person saves 10% of their gross pay, that is tax free. As a country, that would contract the GDP by the amount inflation does not account for.
And if an economy is to increase, then money removed from circulation in the form of savings needs to be accounted for. This might be where government spending makes up the difference.
If so, then when agencies like the GAO consider an economy, it would be something they need to consider.


James I think government spending is now, and has been, making up for the economic squeeze which occurs when people save money. It's why they have $27 trillion in debt.

Saving money is not a squeeze.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
07-10-2020 05:06
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
ITN, All future comments from you will be ignored.
07-10-2020 05:48
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7514)
Spongy Iris wrote:You can't have cash without debt.

There was a point in my life when I had no debt. None. It was prior to having purchased my first home, I lived in an apartment, my car was paid off, I had paid my next month's rent, I had no other loans *AND* just to achieve Nirvana I paid off my one credit card with $150 extra dollars above what I owed in order to have a positive credit balance (i.e. the next $150 in purchases was already covered). I just wanted to relish having zero debt.

Here's the kicker. I had $120 cash in my wallet.

Zero debt. Cash on hand. How do you explain that?


Regardless, it felt good. If freedom is ever a feeling then that's what I was feeling. Once I owned multiple houses and multiple cars and family-supporting credit cards, there was no way I was going to be debt-free for a while at least. But it was amazing while it lasted.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 07-10-2020 05:50
07-10-2020 05:58
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:You can't have cash without debt.

There was a point in my life when I had no debt. None. It was prior to having purchased my first home, I lived in an apartment, my car was paid off, I had paid my next month's rent, I had no other loans *AND* just to achieve Nirvana I paid off my one credit card with $150 extra dollars above what I owed in order to have a positive credit balance (i.e. the next $150 in purchases was already covered). I just wanted to relish having zero debt.

Here's the kicker. I had $120 cash in my wallet.

Zero debt. Cash on hand. How do you explain that?


Regardless, it felt good. If freedom is ever a feeling then that's what I was feeling. Once I owned multiple houses and multiple cars and family-supporting credit cards, there was no way I was going to be debt-free for a while at least. But it was amazing while it lasted.


.


You must speak for everybody then.
07-10-2020 06:02
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7514)
Spongy Iris wrote: ITN, All future comments from you will be ignored.

This is so totally unfair. How is Into the Night on your "Ignore List" and I'm not? That's total crap. Ignore lists don't even exist on Climate-Debate and somehow he managed to get on yours.

C'mon Maaan! Now Into the Night is catching up and I've got to start working again. You shouldn't be carelessly putting people who aren't me on "Ignore" just willie-nillie. You should always take a deep breath first, count to ten and then not do it.

Do you realize the bind you're putting me in? This really isn't a good time. I went to the trouble of creating an animated gif mocking someone on JPP who then did the same thing as you just did and simply put Into the Night on "Ignore" while kicking me to the curb. Sometimes I think you guys are just throwing the game.

This is why we need a moderator ... to put an end to this kind of cheating.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-10-2020 06:04
Spongy Iris
★★☆☆☆
(179)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote: ITN, All future comments from you will be ignored.

This is so totally unfair. How is Into the Night on your "Ignore List" and I'm not? That's total crap. Ignore lists don't even exist on Climate-Debate and somehow he managed to get on yours.

C'mon Maaan! Now Into the Night is catching up and I've got to start working again. You shouldn't be carelessly putting people who aren't me on "Ignore" just willie-nillie. You should always take a deep breath first, count to ten and then not do it.

Do you realize the bind you're putting me in? This really isn't a good time. I went to the trouble of creating an animated gif mocking someone on JPP who then did the same thing as you just did and simply put Into the Night on "Ignore" while kicking me to the curb. Sometimes I think you guys are just throwing the game.

This is why we need a moderator ... to put an end to this kind of cheating.


.


Jealous much? I can ignore you too.

Maybe I just won't reply to either of you anymore. Good night.
08-10-2020 04:38
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7514)
Spongy Iris wrote:Jealous much?

I'm in it to win it. You have to play fair just like everyone else.

Into the Night hasn't done anything that I haven't done to warrant being placed on "Ignore."

Spongy Iris wrote: I can ignore you too.

At a minimum. Don't let me catch you reading my posts, much less responding to them.

Spongy Iris wrote:Maybe I just won't reply to either of you anymore.

If you should decide to respond to a couple more posts by Into the Night I'll be good with that.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
08-10-2020 09:14
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13468)
Spongy Iris wrote:
ITN, All future comments from you will be ignored.


Bulverism fallacy. Your loss.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Page 3 of 3<123





Join the debate The World Need A New International Income Wage Index Based On Price Of Silver, Gold:

Remember me

Related content
ThreadsRepliesLast post
Climate is a question of price offering113-12-2019 05:33
Nancy, an oil tycoon's daughter is kidnapped by a cultish environmental group who's ready to wage226-11-2019 21:22
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/world/school-climate-strike-walkup-trnd/index.html213-03-2019 16:35
ClimateCoop - Blockchain based collaboration & governance platform enabling dynamic community develop1911-03-2018 17:13
based on the satellite measurements of the world, the Earth seems to be colder than normal2704-01-2016 08:25
▲ Top of page
Public Poll
Who is leading the renewable energy race?

US

EU

China

Japan

India

Brazil

Other

Don't know


Thanks for supporting Climate-Debate.com.
Copyright © 2009-2020 Climate-Debate.com | About | Contact