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11-02-2020 18:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13293)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Any theories on the water levels in the photos.

Are you unsure of the rising and falling water level relative to the amount of ice on Earth?
It is not possible to measure the amount of ice on Earth. It is not possible to measure the global sea level. Mantras 25, 25a, 31.
tmiddles wrote:
All of that predates AGW of course...deleted Mantras 30...31...25...25a...24...21...32...33...4...

Paradox. These pictures were taken AFTER Fourier declared 'global warming'. Which is it, dude?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
11-02-2020 18:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13293)
duncan61 wrote:
looking a lot like the water goes down when the ice melts.I have mentioned this before.ITN and IBDM where are you when I need you.The big deal I was made aware of is to get the correct result you would need a second earth as a test model :and warm it up to really know the result.I will call Slartibartfast and see what he is up to these days


You are actually doing fine on your own. You are absolutely correct. tmiddles commonly just declares "what we know" and makes base rate fallacies. He also likes to make up random numbers and use them as data.

He also denies the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law and also statistical mathematics, probability mathematics, and random number mathematics.

You are correct. The water level is lower in the 2005 pictures. These are taken during a winter for the 'before' shots, and in the summer for the 'after' shots. During the summer, ice flow and river flow is reduced. The snow field you see in shot followed by pasture land in the 'after' shot is normal. It's not a glacier.

I live in the Northwest and visit Glacier National park from time to time. Nothing's changed there.

Each year, the National Ice and Snow data center in Boulder, CO takes a picture, using satellites, of the maximum winter ice extent of that pole. In 2014, the Antarctic pole recorded a record maximum ice extent, larger than had ever been recorded. In 2015, it was near minimum. In 2016 it was larger again. The same thing happens at the Arctic pole. The last three years have recorded an increasing winter ice extent.

While pictures can't show how deep the ice is, and therefore we don't know, it DOES record the extent the ice sheet moves south.

Yet during these last three years, the Church of Global Warming claims the world temperatures are 'hotter than ever before', even though it's not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
11-02-2020 18:24
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13293)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:...you would need a second earth as a test model..
So you're argument is that we give up on trying to figure it out? Because we don't have a second Earth.

How much research and technology should we abandon because we don't have a perfect laboratory setup?


Random numbers isn't data, dude. Mantras 25, 25a, 10(engineering<->science), 10(science<->research).


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
11-02-2020 18:25
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13293)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I saw that documentary it was a very wealthy Greek bloke was transporting all these big statues


If you want to believe sea levels have not changed go ahead.


So you believe the flood of Noah actually happened, yes?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
11-02-2020 19:37
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7464)
Into the Night wrote:So you believe the flood of Noah actually happened, yes?

Is it possible that the earth's radius was shrunk by 15 cubits?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-02-2020 01:37
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
Good call on the winter/summer pictures.I think the retreating ice claim is in trouble.You cant beat the mk1 eyeball.Fancy posting a picture of an old statue on the ocean floor to insinuate flooding.
12-02-2020 02:09
James___
★★★★★
(3170)
Harry C wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
This is very clear:
IBdaMann wrote:
...I will invent a term to clarify what I mean: Eigenlevel. I define the ocean's "eigenlevel"....
The earth has one eigenlevel at any given moment, i.e. λ(t). When people talk about sea level rise they are referring to a new eigenlevel, i.e. λ(t+1), ....we don't know the ocean's eigenlevel..

So to clarify the following:
IBdaMann wrotewrote: (sea level varies) It doesn't. It cannot. This SHOULD be obvious. [hint: it has to do with the properties of water]
Harry C wrote:
.... They are invalid datasets for the purpose of the claims made. ....Climate change is an illegitimate attempt ....

I understand you're both agreeing the Eigenlevel cannot be measured. Are either of you saying, in spite of that, you somehow know it's not rising?

Just to get it out of the way does anyone dispute that the formation of glaciers would drop the Eigenlevel and the melting of glaciers raise it?


I am not saying it's not rising either. I detest those who make a claim that is not factual for the sake of alarmism. This is serious business and we had better have our facts straight.



This article cites the historical sea level rise in Seattle since 1900. The projections I couldn't support. 56 inches?
There is a site I've seen that lists Seattle's actual sea level by year. 9 inches in over 100 years, even if it rises 36 inches over the next 100 years, that's more than enough time to adapt. Chances are that every building in will be torn down on the water front if it's not a historical landmark.
And for loss of property, insurance to cover it?

https://www.eopugetsound.org/magazine/is/slr
12-02-2020 02:31
James___
★★★★★
(3170)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: With your post, you ignore basic common sense.

We can't all be supergenuses like you James__. That would be expecting too much. You have a cognitive superpower that we can only pray that you use for good, and not for evil.



Nah, it's just called having a hearing loss. Learning gives me the opportunity to have a life. Discrimination is a bitch to overcome. Still, if things work out for me, some people might think that I've done more than I should without having a proper education to go with it.
About everyone in here knows my opinion and politics is what it is. Don't wanna play the game then if you have something to contribute that might matter, no one will listen. After all, if CO2 isn't causing the warming claimed, then in another 2o years that will probably become known.
scroll down to 1.1 in this link; https://archive.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/syr/AR5_SYR_FINAL_All_Topics.pdf
1.1 Observed changes in the climate system
arming of the climate system is unequivocal, and since the 1950s, many of the observed changes are unprecedented over decades to millennia. The atmo-sphere and ocean have warmed, the amounts of snow and ice have diminished, and sea level has risen.


And then read this link from 2007; https://news.osu.edu/current-melting-of-greenlands-ice-mimics-1920s-1940s-event/

Dec 05, 2007
Current Melting Of Greenland's Ice Mimics 1920s-1940s Event

The IPCC in it's report, you can read what I posted, it's their quote. I think it was Duncan61 who put me 2nd on the list behind you because I showed where no warming occurred from 1940 to 1980. The IPCC states that warming did occur.
But from what Jason Box reported on, nothing happened after that until the current warming. That started in 1978. So what do you want me to say? If not for my hearing loss I might be just like you or any other person. I'd have better things to do. But do have my current interests to pursue and with this post, there's little else I can say.
I can accept the data that's been collected, it's the interpretation of the data that I question. This is where IMHO many projections are speculative.

Edited on 12-02-2020 02:34
12-02-2020 04:42
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3375)
Into the Night wrote:These pictures were taken AFTER Fourier declared 'global warming'. Which is it, dude?
Uh, no ITN, Fourier died in 1830. The first photograph ever taken was in 1827.
12-02-2020 10:44
James___
★★★★★
(3170)
This also mentions that there was a slight cooling from 1950 to 1980.

The Little Ice Age was a period from about 1550 to 1850 when the world experienced relatively cool temperatures compared to the present. Subsequently, until about 1940 glaciers around the world retreated as the climate warmed. Glacial retreat slowed and even reversed, in many cases, between 1950 and 1980 as a slight global cooling occurred.

https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/r/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850.htm
12-02-2020 11:17
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
I am leaning towards the Global Temperature [It can not be measured] reality and ITN lives near a glacier and its not melting so I am at peace with the way things are
12-02-2020 11:17
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
I am leaning towards the Global Temperature [It can not be measured] reality and ITN lives near a glacier and its not melting so I am at peace with the way things are
12-02-2020 11:32
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3375)
duncan61 wrote:
I am leaning towards the Global Temperature [It can not be measured] reality and ITN lives near a glacier and its not melting so I am at peace with the way things are


Well you arrived exactly where you intended to. Congratulations duncan. Grab a cup of hot coco and enjoy the self satisfaction you were right all along.
12-02-2020 11:44
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
Thanks buddy but I am chilling some Chardonnay and am going to give the dart board a learning.The things I have learned are
.The pro CC people dont spell check or proof read their posts[Not a good look on a discussion forum]
.It is popular to claim there is a problem and be proactive to say there is no problem ostracises you from society its a feel good exercise.
Time for a nice glass of wine.Regards Duncan.See you on the other side
12-02-2020 11:53
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3375)
duncan61 wrote:...The pro CC people ...
Where did you find some of those? Not on any forum like this. Your available range in places like this are from skeptic to denier.

But hey good news. You can believe just about anything you want online, even that the earth is flat. It's fun an easy.
Edited on 12-02-2020 12:00
12-02-2020 16:13
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7464)
tmiddles wrote: Well you arrived exactly where you intended to. Congratulations duncan. Grab a cup of hot coco and enjoy the self satisfaction you were right all along.

You're projecting. You are trying to blame duncan for your own inability to justify your WACKY beliefs in the face of the myriad of violations of physics they comprise.

Misery loves company and you HATE duncan for not joining you. You have a batch of sour grapes.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-02-2020 17:15
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1214)
duncan61 wrote:
I am leaning towards the Global Temperature [It can not be measured] reality and ITN lives near a glacier and its not melting so I am at peace with the way things are

I'm at peace too. There's nothing to worry about. The Church of Global Warming is just a religion that requires its Members to reject logic, science, and mathematics.
12-02-2020 17:36
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1214)
duncan61 wrote:
Thanks buddy but I am chilling some Chardonnay and am going to give the dart board a learning.

Sounds like a gay ole time!


duncan61 wrote:
The things I have learned are
.The pro CC people dont spell check or proof read their posts[Not a good look on a discussion forum]

I suppose when one doesn't read and comprehend posts from the "evil" Climate Deniers, when one parrots the mantras fed to them by the "good" Church of Global Warming clergy, and when one is unable to form valid argumentation of their own, they figure "why even bother" with the aesthetics of their posts. After all, a polished turd is still a turd.

duncan61 wrote:
.It is popular to claim there is a problem and be proactive to say there is no problem ostracises you from society its a feel good exercise.

Yup. The Members love to claim that there is "a problem" (left unidentified) and that we must "do something about it" (also left unidentified). Their religion is fundamentalist by nature, thus the hatred that you see from them when some Climate Denier dares not join their Church.

duncan61 wrote:
Time for a nice glass of wine.Regards Duncan.See you on the other side

You too, man!
12-02-2020 18:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13293)
James___ wrote:
Harry C wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
This is very clear:
IBdaMann wrote:
...I will invent a term to clarify what I mean: Eigenlevel. I define the ocean's "eigenlevel"....
The earth has one eigenlevel at any given moment, i.e. λ(t). When people talk about sea level rise they are referring to a new eigenlevel, i.e. λ(t+1), ....we don't know the ocean's eigenlevel..

So to clarify the following:
IBdaMann wrotewrote: (sea level varies) It doesn't. It cannot. This SHOULD be obvious. [hint: it has to do with the properties of water]
Harry C wrote:
.... They are invalid datasets for the purpose of the claims made. ....Climate change is an illegitimate attempt ....

I understand you're both agreeing the Eigenlevel cannot be measured. Are either of you saying, in spite of that, you somehow know it's not rising?

Just to get it out of the way does anyone dispute that the formation of glaciers would drop the Eigenlevel and the melting of glaciers raise it?


I am not saying it's not rising either. I detest those who make a claim that is not factual for the sake of alarmism. This is serious business and we had better have our facts straight.



This article cites the historical sea level rise in Seattle since 1900. The projections I couldn't support. 56 inches?
There is a site I've seen that lists Seattle's actual sea level by year. 9 inches in over 100 years, even if it rises 36 inches over the next 100 years, that's more than enough time to adapt. Chances are that every building in will be torn down on the water front if it's not a historical landmark.
And for loss of property, insurance to cover it?

https://www.eopugetsound.org/magazine/is/slr

The present Seattle waterfront hasn't been there for 100 years.



The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
12-02-2020 18:42
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13293)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:These pictures were taken AFTER Fourier declared 'global warming'. Which is it, dude?
Uh, no ITN, Fourier died in 1830. The first photograph ever taken was in 1827.

These pictures were taken AFTER Fourier declared 'global warming'. Which is it, dude?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
12-02-2020 18:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13293)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I am leaning towards the Global Temperature [It can not be measured] reality and ITN lives near a glacier and its not melting so I am at peace with the way things are


Well you arrived exactly where you intended to. Congratulations duncan. Grab a cup of hot coco and enjoy the self satisfaction you were right all along.


It's spelled 'cocoa'. He might as well. There really is nothing to worry about. Don't Panic.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
12-02-2020 18:48
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13293)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:...The pro CC people ...
...deleted denial of self...Mantras 34...35...

No argument presented.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
15-02-2020 15:32
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7464)
tmiddles wrote:Wouldn't it be easy to disprove that there is less ice by showing there is more ice?

Wouldn't it be easy to disprove the existence of God by showing that there is no God?

One of the appealing factors of the unfalsifiable is that no one can disprove it, e.g. Global Warming, Climate Change, sea level rise, ice mass loss, etc...




The massive Greenland glacier pictured above is the "after." It was totally green before the age of photography so you need to imagine the idyllic "before" image.



.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
16-02-2020 02:13
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
duncan61 wrote:
Hi all I am brand new and have been interested in the climate debate since the Greta saga.I have watched a lot of conflicting videos and if possible would like to get some real answers.These are my own questions as a denier of manmade climate change
.If the temperature has gone up a degree how does that melt ice that is at -40 or more.Regards Duncan
16-02-2020 02:29
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
This was my first post and I am happy with the answers I have received.I would like to share this snippet.I live in Western Australia and for a few summers in the 90s we had a thing called daylight saving where we moved the clock forward to align with the eastern seaboard so business was only 2 hours behind not 3.The amount of people who believed the day had an extra hour in it was ridiculous.It was voted out and never came back but this is what the AGW/CC people are all about you and ITN have comprehensively demonstrated that it is a work of fiction but they just dont get it
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