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The only straw the Church of AGW can grasp is Venus



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25-09-2019 21:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
VernerHornung wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Lie. You were equivicating the UN and the U.S., as if the U.S. must obey the UN unconditionally.

The charge of lying requires an element of deliberate deception, not mere distaste for contrary opinion.

You are deliberately attempting to deceive. You are lying.
VernerHornung wrote:
Find the words in my posts where I say the US must obey the UN. I suggested, and only indirectly, that when going to war, the US enjoys better international standing if it has the support of the UN. But you are so wrapped up in the partisanship that accompanied the Iraq War you seem unable to read anyone else through before reacting to it.

No need. Anyone can read your post for themselves.
VernerHornung wrote:
Very much like a patellar hammer. Tap, and the knee jerks.
~


YALIF.
VernerHornung wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Contextomy...

And yet another mysterious private vocabulary item baffles us.

Go learn English. You'll find that using English works better.
VernerHornung wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
You were arguing that no hydrogen existed underground. Which is it, dude?

Whether there's hydrogen or not, there's no claim in any of those articles for renewable oil or renewable natural gas. But nobody can be bothered to read them, I suppose.

Contextomy fallacy. Nobody is discussing your unrelated process except you.
VernerHornung wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:I still don't buy into no oil ever came from decaying plants and animals, which contain a great concentration of hydrocarbons.

Here's what Norwegian Petroleum says about it:
VernerHornung wrote:
And here's how oil gets from its source rock, the place where it was formed, to its reservoir, which is called an oil trap. The impermeable layer need not be absolutely unbroken, but the fewer leaks the better. Ground water pushes the oil up into the trap. Source rocks are usually shales, siltstones, or coals.

How does the oil get there for water to push it up, genius?
VernerHornung wrote:
"As shown in this figure, all fluid migration is upward.

WRONG. How does the water get down there in the first place, genius?
VernerHornung wrote:
This is because the main driving mechanism in hydrocarbon migration is buoyancy, which occurs because the oil and gas are less dense (lighter) than the resident water. In order to prevent this buoyant flow from occurring all of the way to the surface, a vertical flow barrier, or Cap Rock, is required along the migration path and at the reservoir itself. A cap rock is simply an overlying rock layer that is impermeable to flow."

Penn State Geology Dept.
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/png301/node/8

Circular argument. Redirection fallacy. Where is all that oil getting pushed up from, genius?
VernerHornung wrote:
Granite is out. If you drill in New Hampshire, you'll go broke. (There are rare exceptions to the "no igneous rock" rule, but I won't discuss them because they are, well, rare.)
~

No, it's because New Hampshire has banned oil well drilling.
VernerHornung wrote:
[quote]HarveyH55 wrote:
Who knows, all speculation, nobody has ever observed it happening, we don't live long enough.

Uncertainty exists in almost everything we know or think we know.

If you are uncertain, you don't know. It really is pretty simple.
VernerHornung wrote:
But this doesn't stop law enforcement from arresting suspects in murders the police didn't observe.

No, it doesn't. An arrest is not a conviction either. Criminals trials are not a proof or even an example of a proof. False equivalence fallacy.
VernerHornung wrote:
While it's quite possible that some methane is created inorganically, commercial quantities of oil and gas require organic source materials.

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING THE EARTH ISN'T BIG ENOUGH to produce commercial resources???!?
VernerHornung wrote:
As for capping a well to use it later, that sometimes works.

Most of the time, actually.
VernerHornung wrote:
Water seeps back into wells if you quit pumping for a while,

No, they are pumping oil, not water.
VernerHornung wrote:
and oil may do so if there's still oil in the reservoir.

No. There is no oil seeping from nearby wells. Whole fields can be tapped and reused in this way.
VernerHornung wrote:
A well's production declines over time, however.

Just cap it. Wait awhile, and you can produce what you did before.
VernerHornung wrote:
The recent surge in US production came from fracking to get more oil and gas out of the reservoirs. More technologies will no doubt be discovered, each one more expensive than the last and brought into play only when prices rise enough.

Oil is cheap. Fracking is pretty cheap too.
VernerHornung wrote:
Or we could just hydrogenate our coal, as the Germans did.

No need. Why do you keep bringing up this unrelated process?
VernerHornung wrote:
Or dig up tar sands and oil shales.

We already produce oil from shales.
VernerHornung wrote:
We won't actually run out of fuel for many centuries.

Oil is a renewable resource, just like natural gas.
VernerHornung wrote:
But it's a dirty source of energy

Burning it cleanly produces CO2 and water. What is dirty about it?
VernerHornung wrote:
that gets less and less economical.

Oil is cheap.
VernerHornung wrote:
I believe its heyday is past.

Oil is cheap.


The Parrot Killer
25-09-2019 21:12
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
tmiddles wrote:
quoting it verbatim.[/url]
Into the Night wrote:
If a well is pumped dry, you can cap it, wait awhile (a few years), uncap it, and it's full of oil again.
Wow! You're going to be rich ITN. If depleted oil fields really aren't depleted and filled up again you should be able to get them cheap with your special knowledge. Big oil just doesn't have your insights into BS.


People that own these wells do just exactly that. It works.


The Parrot Killer
25-09-2019 22:07
VernerHornungProfile picture★☆☆☆☆
(123)
tmiddles wrote:
Trump may have said "let's go get their oil."

Trump's shown restraint on the war business, choosing not to hit Iran's SAM site after they shot down our drone earlier this year. He's not the evil man the media portray. He's overinflated with self-importance is all, and has been all his life. (Yeah, he was in the news when Trump Tower went up in the '80s.) Dishonest with suppliers & customers as well, but that can be chalked up to New York's vicious real estate scene eating anyone who tries to play by the book.

I dunno. His getting elected says more about us than it does about him, I think. America has had soft conditions on its home front a long time, ever since the draft ended, so we've turned to petty bickering and identity politics. Plus Internet amplifies truth distortion.


Never try to solve an NP-complete problem on your own with pencil & paper.
25-09-2019 22:39
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
VernerHornung wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Trump may have said "let's go get their oil."

Trump's shown restraint on the war business, choosing not to hit Iran's SAM site after they shot down our drone earlier this year. He's not the evil man the media portray. He's overinflated with self-importance is all, and has been all his life. (Yeah, he was in the news when Trump Tower went up in the '80s.) Dishonest with suppliers & customers as well, but that can be chalked up to New York's vicious real estate scene eating anyone who tries to play by the book.

I dunno. His getting elected says more about us than it does about him, I think. America has had soft conditions on its home front a long time, ever since the draft ended, so we've turned to petty bickering and identity politics. Plus Internet amplifies truth distortion.


Um...did you forget 9/11?


The Parrot Killer
25-09-2019 22:41
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
VernerHornung wrote:His getting elected says more about us than it does about him,...
Definitely. If we'd elected a golden retriever and kept complaining it was crapping on the oval office rug we would also have ourselves to blame. He's always been a jerk and a clown. I don't think he's "evil" just a psychopath (along with 4% of CEO's) who is decidedly not a good person.
Thank god he doesn't seem to have a violent streak.
Edited on 25-09-2019 22:42
26-09-2019 02:37
VernerHornungProfile picture★☆☆☆☆
(123)
Into the Night wrote:Um...did you forget 9/11?

September 11 didn't produce the kind of shallow negativity we're seeing today left and right: Vox crawling the walls, Vox crawling the walls, Fox drawling on, and Sam Lillo explicating cones of Hurricane Dorian not posing a threat to Alabama on September 4, each trivium drawn out a whole month.

Long time since we've had a crisis like WWII in terms of sacrifices the entire population had to make. Seven million men were inducted for the duration and rationing, meaning food coupons, imposed on everyone else. Not a single new tire, much less a new car, became available until 1946. The Trumpeters have forgotten this to the point where Uncle Sam asking carmakers to get 40 mpg on the highway is fascism in their eyes.

tmiddles wrote:
I don't think he's "evil" just a psychopath (along with 4% of CEO's) who is decidedly not a good person.

He appears to have a serious disconnect with reality whenever it doesn't suit his preconceptions. It's Ptolemaically revolving around his head, starting January 20 with the Twitterstorm over the size of his inaugural crowd, and I blanched after Gen. John Hyten came on the tube to announce the Strategic Command wouldn't honor an illegal order to launch, a backdrop I'd never even imagine behind Ronald Reagan.

Trump has improved since those first months. He's likely been drilled in private on what presidents can and cannot do, and has accepted the discipline. None of awful things I thought he might spark internationally have materialized, and he's handled Iran's provocations pretty well this year.
~



Never try to solve an NP-complete problem on your own with pencil & paper.
Edited on 26-09-2019 02:50
26-09-2019 03:45
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
VernerHornung wrote:
Into the Night wrote:Um...did you forget 9/11?

September 11 didn't produce the kind of shallow negativity we're seeing today left and right:

Correct. It unified the nation.
VernerHornung wrote:
Vox crawling the walls, Vox crawling the walls, Fox drawling on, and Sam Lillo explicating cones of Hurricane Dorian not posing a threat to Alabama on September 4, each trivium drawn out a whole month.

Nothing to do with 9/11. Quite a few years have passed since then, you know. Why are you equivocating the two?
VernerHornung wrote:
Long time since we've had a crisis like WWII in terms of sacrifices the entire population had to make. Seven million men were inducted for the duration and rationing, meaning food coupons, imposed on everyone else. Not a single new tire, much less a new car, became available until 1946.

None needed. There was enough inventory for the suddenly smaller market. Many were in the military and didn't need new cars (except military vehicles, which the carmakers turned to making).
VernerHornung wrote:
The Trumpeters have forgotten this to the point where Uncle Sam asking carmakers to get 40 mpg on the highway is fascism in their eyes.

You can't change the laws of physics. You can only get so much power out of a gallon of gasoline. It requires a certain amount of power to move a car of a certain weight.
VernerHornung wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
I don't think he's "evil" just a psychopath (along with 4% of CEO's) who is decidedly not a good person.

He appears to have a serious disconnect with reality whenever it doesn't suit his preconceptions. It's Ptolemaically revolving around his head, starting January 20 with the Twitterstorm over the size of his inaugural crowd, and I blanched after Gen. John Hyten came on the tube to announce the Strategic Command wouldn't honor an illegal order to launch, a backdrop I'd never even imagine behind Ronald Reagan.

You DO realize, don't you, that no one has ever 'pushed the Button'.
VernerHornung wrote:
Trump has improved since those first months. He's likely been drilled in private on what presidents can and cannot do, and has accepted the discipline. None of awful things I thought he might spark internationally have materialized, and he's handled Iran's provocations pretty well this year.

No need to be drilled in private. Article II of the Constitution of the United States is there for anyone to read.


The Parrot Killer
26-09-2019 04:43
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
VernerHornung wrote:...he's handled Iran's provocations pretty well this year..
Though welching on the deal we had with Iran he's let the world know that a deal with US is only good for as long as the current president is in office. I'm sure China is well aware of this now.

Into the Night wrote:
VernerHornung wrote:
The Trumpeters have forgotten this to the point where Uncle Sam asking carmakers to get 40 mpg on the highway is fascism in their eyes.

You can't change the laws of physics. You can only get so much power out of a gallon of gasoline. It requires a certain amount of power to move a car of a certain weight.
Well you don't know what the laws of physics are and currently it's 12% for gas and 40% for electric of the energy use in a car that actually moves it forward. So there is plenty of room for improvement.


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed: The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference& Proof: no data is ever valid for them.
26-09-2019 05:49
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
tmiddles wrote:
VernerHornung wrote:...he's handled Iran's provocations pretty well this year..
Though welching on the deal we had with Iran he's let the world know that a deal with US is only good for as long as the current president is in office. I'm sure China is well aware of this now.

Into the Night wrote:
VernerHornung wrote:
The Trumpeters have forgotten this to the point where Uncle Sam asking carmakers to get 40 mpg on the highway is fascism in their eyes.

You can't change the laws of physics. You can only get so much power out of a gallon of gasoline. It requires a certain amount of power to move a car of a certain weight.
Well you don't know what the laws of physics are and currently it's 12% for gas and 40% for electric of the energy use in a car that actually moves it forward. So there is plenty of room for improvement.

RDCF. Argument from randU fallacy.


The Parrot Killer
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