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The issue of the Moral Fallacy


The issue of the Moral Fallacy12-10-2016 11:13
jwoodward48
★★★★☆
(1537)
The Moral Fallacy goes thus: "But if A is true, that would mean that B is true, and that would be bad!" In essence, it is the fallacy of assuming that what is found in nature is good. In this, it is similar to the naturalistic fallacy, but the MF is used to argue against X because it would lead to bad things, and nature is never bad, right? The NF is used to argue that something must be good, because it occurs in nature, and nature is always good, right? They are each other's inverse in a sense. (Not necessarily the logical sense.)

Another way of phrasing the MF is that "what is bad cannot be." But what of "what is bad ought not be?" Can I not say that things should be another way? (Not should as in "if my calculations are correct, the asteroid should be here," but should as in "we should help people if they are sick".) After all, morality itself is not fallacious, not even in an argument. And certainly not in science. Morality should definitely be in science.


"Heads on a science
Apart" - Coldplay, The Scientist

IBdaMann wrote:
No, science doesn't insist that, ergo I don't insist that.

I am the Ninja Scientist! Beware!
12-10-2016 14:50
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4926)
jwoodward48 wrote: Can I not say that things should be another way?

No, you cannot argue that a system for how humans are to live should run counter to human nature, e.g. self preservation, desire for nice things, desire for freedom, etc..

Any such system that goes against human nature is as bad as any cancer and should be treated as such or even nipped in the bud if possible.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-10-2016 15:52
jwoodward48
★★★★☆
(1537)
But that is an argument that a particular choice would be wrong, not that I am committing the moral fallacy.
13-10-2016 19:31
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4926)
jwoodward48 wrote: But that is an argument that a particular choice would be wrong, not that I am committing the moral fallacy.

The issue is that no one argues the obviously false strawman that you crafted as the subject of your thread.

If I were to post that "the people are wrong who argue that earthworms are made of green cheese because 57 is less than 20" then I am wasting time because no one is arguing it and no one is wrong.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
13-10-2016 20:07
jwoodward48
★★★★☆
(1537)
Oh, for ****'s sake. I am not saying that you have committed this fallacy! Somebody has accused me of using when I said that something was immoral.
13-10-2016 20:35
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4926)
jwoodward48 wrote:Oh, for ****'s sake. I am not saying that you have committed this fallacy! Somebody has accused me of using when I said that something was immoral.

Are you capable of expressing your argument clearly, using unambiguous logic notation?

Would it help you out to respond that your OP is very unclear?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
13-10-2016 23:15
jwoodward48
★★★★☆
(1537)
X is immoral, therefore we shouldn't do X / should prevent X. That's my argument. It's actually fairly accepted.




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