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18-05-2019 23:03
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?
18-05-2019 23:12
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?


It is not a right. It is a reason the government was formed. It is not a grant of any kind of power to that government, but a directive to guide how powers will be given to it are to be used. Powers given to Congress are specified in Article 1, Section 8, as amended. Powers given to the President are specified in Article 2, as amended. Powers given to the courts are specified in Article 3, as amended.

The federal government has NO OTHER POWERS other than what is given through the amendment process. The States own the Constitution of the United States. They are the ONLY ones that can amend it. No court has power over the constitution. Only the States do.

The 'general welfare' clause is not a power granted to the federal government. If it were, why have a constitution in the first place?

The lie that the 'general welfare' clause is a power enumerated to the federal government comes from the liberals, for they want to overthrow that constitution and implement fascism by oligarchy instead.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 18-05-2019 23:15
18-05-2019 23:28
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?


It is not a right. It is a reason the government was formed. It is not a grant of any kind of power to that government, but a directive to guide how powers will be given to it are to be used. Powers given to Congress are specified in Article 1, Section 8, as amended. Powers given to the President are specified in Article 2, as amended. Powers given to the courts are specified in Article 3, as amended.

The federal government has NO OTHER POWERS other than what is given through the amendment process. The States own the Constitution of the United States. They are the ONLY ones that can amend it. No court has power over the constitution. Only the States do.

The 'general welfare' clause is not a power granted to the federal government. If it were, why have a constitution in the first place?

The lie that the 'general welfare' clause is a power enumerated to the federal government comes from the liberals, for they want to overthrow that constitution and implement fascism by oligarchy instead.



The US is an oligarchy. That's why the rich and powerful like President Trump makes decisions for people like you and Harvey. He is your personal Jesus.
18-05-2019 23:50
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
Into the Night wrote:It is not possible to have anything owned by everyone.
That's why it always fails.
18-05-2019 23:52
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?
THAT is the important word. It does not guarantee the welfare of anyone. It does not guarantee that the welfare will be that great. It only guarantee that it will promote it.

Its like how it says "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Some people claim that since something will make them happy, such as smoking, they have to be able to do it. It only guarantee that you can pursue smoking if that makes you happy. You can pursue taking drugs if it makes you happy, but only as long as you do not break the laws concerning them. That is why things with LSD got so bad when it did. There were no laws against it then, so it was completely legal. In the US, if there are no laws against it, you can do it. In other countries, it sometimes is illegal if you do not have laws permitting it.

There was a time in the US people could wear see through clothing because there was no laws against it. The laws only said you had to be dressed. A see through dress was clothing, so it was allowed. In other countries people were arrested because the laws did not specifically allow it.

In the US we promote general welfare but that does not make any promised other than we will promote it.
Edited on 19-05-2019 00:00
19-05-2019 00:58
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
dehammer wrote:
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?
THAT is the important word. It does not guarantee the welfare of anyone. It does not guarantee that the welfare will be that great. It only guarantee that it will promote it.

Its like how it says "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Some people claim that since something will make them happy, such as smoking, they have to be able to do it. It only guarantee that you can pursue smoking if that makes you happy. You can pursue taking drugs if it makes you happy, but only as long as you do not break the laws concerning them. That is why things with LSD got so bad when it did. There were no laws against it then, so it was completely legal. In the US, if there are no laws against it, you can do it. In other countries, it sometimes is illegal if you do not have laws permitting it.

There was a time in the US people could wear see through clothing because there was no laws against it. The laws only said you had to be dressed. A see through dress was clothing, so it was allowed. In other countries people were arrested because the laws did not specifically allow it.

In the US we promote general welfare but that does not make any promised other than we will promote it.



And when it denies American citizens health care, then it's not promoting the general welfare of the people.

pro·mote
/prəˈmōt/
verb
1.
further the progress of (something, especially a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage.

It's funny that you guys are defending a health care system that is the worst among industrialized countries that can be twice as expensive. England's (#18) is 60% of the US (#37) and after that about everyone else is under 50% per capita spending. And their health care is as good or better than the US'.
Might be why the US has more national debt than any country in the world. I doubt any other country has topped $20 Trillion. And that's only expected to get worse.

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/
19-05-2019 01:09
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
Once again, you totally fail to understand the word. There is no guarantee that you will get health care. The constitution guarantees ONLY to promote it, not to make sure that everyone gets it. We have insurance for medicine and you can buy that to protect you from disastrous illness or accident. IF you choose not to avail yourself of it, that is your choice. It is strongly promoted, but not forced upon you.

Yes, health care in England is cheaper, but you can die waiting to be seen by a doctor, or you can pay 2 times what the US pays and see a doctor before the illness kills you.

Have you ever noticed that almost all the advance in medicine comes from the US? Almost all the new pills, almost all the new procedures. That is why our medicine is more expensive. Then after we pay for it, other countries get it for free.
19-05-2019 01:59
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
dehammer wrote:
Once again, you totally fail to understand the word. There is no guarantee that you will get health care. The constitution guarantees ONLY to promote it, not to make sure that everyone gets it. We have insurance for medicine and you can buy that to protect you from disastrous illness or accident. IF you choose not to avail yourself of it, that is your choice. It is strongly promoted, but not forced upon you.

Yes, health care in England is cheaper, but you can die waiting to be seen by a doctor, or you can pay 2 times what the US pays and see a doctor before the illness kills you.

Have you ever noticed that almost all the advance in medicine comes from the US? Almost all the new pills, almost all the new procedures. That is why our medicine is more expensive. Then after we pay for it, other countries get it for free.



I live in the US. I know how things work here. As people have told me, an American has 2 English speaking parents from the US.
Ya'll probably only know one way of doing things. That's why most Americans don't consider me an American. As you said yourself dehammer, Americans hate Norwegians. Americans have to hate someone, right?
19-05-2019 02:01
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
Who ever told you that was an idiot. Americans do not hate people that are different. We hate people that try to destroy what we have. That's why we hate illegals coming here and tearing down everything we built to make it like their failed countries.

Legal immigrants are frequently great for helping us to build the country to be better, but illegals are breaking the law just being here. They show they do not care for our country, most of them not even bothering to learn our language or history, and insist on destroy our culture and replacing it with theirs.
Edited on 19-05-2019 02:03
19-05-2019 02:08
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
dehammer wrote:
It isn't that we hate them for things like that. The thing you don't know about those countries is they often come to America for the newest treatments and medicine. Socialism doesn't reward research into new medicine and methods of treatment. Capitalism does.



Talking about Scandinavian countries. They don't come here for health care. Scandinavian countries are also capitalist. The US is the only industrialized country that doesn't use the metric system or have universal health care.
Just have to be different and yet the US has become what Britain was in the 1700's. Isn't that funny?

It could be argued that the Constitution was written so we wouldn't become another England. Why do you think we play NFL football and baseball instead of soccer (World Cup Futbol) and cricket?
Learn some history.
Edited on 19-05-2019 02:33
19-05-2019 02:36
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
I hate to tell you, but we do play soccer. I don't know why people play cricket or why America doesn't because I have never actually seen the game. What I can understand of it, doesn't sound all that great, but to each his own.

Football is played in America because it was invented here. Baseball is played in many parts of the world and has its roots in ancient Egypt. Cricket on the other hand was invented in England in the 1600's. By that time America was already playing baseball of some kind. The modern version was created in America.
19-05-2019 03:10
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3851)
James___ wrote: The US is the only industrialized country that doesn't use the metric system or have universal health care.

You can't be better than all the other countries if you're just like all the other countries.

The U.S. is the best country. It's not like all the other countries.

... but the U.S. does play soccer. Look outside once in a while.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-05-2019 03:11
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(807)
If England is the greatest country on Earth, why come to America, which you seem to hate?

Illegal immigrants... I don't don't know about other states, but last week, Florida got notice, that Trump is shipping 1000 per month, indefinitely, to Palm Beach, and Broward counties. Apparently, just dumping them off. Not sure what he figures we are going to do with them, and no mention of some financial assistance either. Florida voted Trump, why punish us? Should have just ask the detainees which city they were heading for, and if was a sanctuary city, put them on bus. Florida gets illegal immigrants by the boatload, not to mention a good portion of those sneaking over the unprotected southern border head on over here. Homeless people migrate down here for the winter, quite a few stay. Palm Beach, isn't that the home of Trump World? Maybe he has a staffing problem...
19-05-2019 03:54
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
HarveyH55 wrote:
If England is the greatest country on Earth, why come to America, which you seem to hate?

Illegal immigrants... I don't don't know about other states, but last week, Florida got notice, that Trump is shipping 1000 per month, indefinitely, to Palm Beach, and Broward counties. Apparently, just dumping them off. Not sure what he figures we are going to do with them, and no mention of some financial assistance either. Florida voted Trump, why punish us? Should have just ask the detainees which city they were heading for, and if was a sanctuary city, put them on bus. Florida gets illegal immigrants by the boatload, not to mention a good portion of those sneaking over the unprotected southern border head on over here. Homeless people migrate down here for the winter, quite a few stay. Palm Beach, isn't that the home of Trump World? Maybe he has a staffing problem...



I'm not from England. I'm from Dayton, Ohio, Home of the Wright Bros.
If I survive what doctors have put me through, Australia will be an option.
What's funny is that white Americans tell me because of my service connected hearing loss or being 1/2 Norwegian that I'm not as good as a migrant worker.
It's about people being made to feel good for no reason. I've taken the time to learn. My hearing loss gave me time for it so I used it well. I might know things that could create jobs. But first have to finish my historical project and then see if doctors in another country will perform a surgical procedure that doctors here in America refuse to perform.
With me, I was living in Norway when I started learning to talk. Had no say about coming back to the US.
You'll love this. When you say that people take their chances when going to the doctors, this happened in 2009 when I had surgery for cancer.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GZaBdKtnEB4vScWeA
I've had 3 or 4 surgeries where doctors could've just removed my colon and said I had cancer. that would justify it but they said that I can't abort my colon.
I'm not a woman and it's not my body. On the other hand, I receive $1575 a month for not working. 1 $2,000 surgery (I've checked my medical records and know what the procedures cost) and I could've kept my job.
But only a doctor can say if something is wrong. Basically, my original surgeon was allowed to drop me as a patient when I had problems. He told me he didn't cause them so not his problem to fix. That was in 2010. And the image any more isn't the worst part but am working through it. And if my project works, I think I'll be able to have surgery in either Germany or Australia. Trump said Australia's health care is better than ours. I'd be an opportunity for them to show that President Trump is right.
19-05-2019 04:11
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
If England is the greatest country on Earth, why come to America, which you seem to hate?

Illegal immigrants... I don't don't know about other states, but last week, Florida got notice, that Trump is shipping 1000 per month, indefinitely, to Palm Beach, and Broward counties. Apparently, just dumping them off. Not sure what he figures we are going to do with them, and no mention of some financial assistance either. Florida voted Trump, why punish us? Should have just ask the detainees which city they were heading for, and if was a sanctuary city, put them on bus. Florida gets illegal immigrants by the boatload, not to mention a good portion of those sneaking over the unprotected southern border head on over here. Homeless people migrate down here for the winter, quite a few stay. Palm Beach, isn't that the home of Trump World? Maybe he has a staffing problem...



I'm not from England. I'm from Dayton, Ohio, Home of the Wright Bros. This is where I lived in Norway https://images.app.goo.gl/ycuzsfsNhjTbM76k8.
If I survive what doctors have put me through, Australia will be an option.
What's funny is that white Americans tell me because of my service connected hearing loss or being 1/2 Norwegian that I'm not as good as a migrant worker.
It's about people being made to feel good for no reason. I've taken the time to learn. My hearing loss gave me time for it so I used it well. I might know things that could create jobs. But first have to finish my historical project and then see if doctors in another country will perform a surgical procedure that doctors here in America refuse to perform.
With me, I was living in Norway when I started learning to talk. Had no say about coming back to the US.
You'll love this. When you say that people take their chances when going to the doctors, this happened in 2009 when I had surgery for cancer.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GZaBdKtnEB4vScWeA
I've had 3 or 4 surgeries where doctors could've just removed my colon and said I had cancer. that would justify it but they said that I can't abort my colon.
I'm not a woman and it's not my body. On the other hand, I receive $1575 a month for not working. 1 $2,000 surgery (I've checked my medical records and know what the procedures cost) and I could've kept my job.
But only a doctor can say if something is wrong. Basically, my original surgeon was allowed to drop me as a patient when I had problems. He told me he didn't cause them so not his problem to fix. That was in 2010. And the image any more isn't the worst part but am working through it. And if my project works, I think I'll be able to have surgery in either Germany or Australia. Trump said Australia's health care is better than ours. I'd be an opportunity for them to show that President Trump is right.
19-05-2019 16:24
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(807)
I'm fairly certain you'll find the same reluctance to getting your colon removed, most any where you go, unless the surgeon is less than reputable. It seems like a last resort sort of procedure, an option not taken lightly. You don't seem too interested in listening to your doctors, or following their instructions, making it a high risk procedure. The surgery might be $2,000, but you have to stay in the hospital a few weeks. It also involves the services of several other specialist, drugs, after care.

You talk about England all the time, as if you live there, or spent much of your life there. Kin of a surprise, you stating other wise. Sort of raising a lot of question marks on everything you've posted here. Main reason why I never got interested in social media.
19-05-2019 17:20
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
HarveyH55 wrote:
I'm fairly certain you'll find the same reluctance to getting your colon removed, most any where you go, unless the surgeon is less than reputable. It seems like a last resort sort of procedure, an option not taken lightly. You don't seem too interested in listening to your doctors, or following their instructions, making it a high risk procedure. The surgery might be $2,000, but you have to stay in the hospital a few weeks. It also involves the services of several other specialist, drugs, after care.

You talk about England all the time, as if you live there, or spent much of your life there. Kin of a surprise, you stating other wise. Sort of raising a lot of question marks on everything you've posted here. Main reason why I never got interested in social media.



You talk about England all the time, as if you live there, or spent much of your life there.



Americans hate Scandinavian countries. Since England is well liked by Americans, it provides a different perspective. After all, as you've shown, anyone who doesn't agree with President Trump is wrong. England takes American politics out of many issues. They also have better health care than the US at only 60% of the cost per capita. It's health care is ranked #18 globally while the US is ranked #37. Don't you want to get your money's worth?
Believe anything you want Harvey. This is why I've been working on my project. People don't want to believe that doctors will abuse patients.

I'm fairly certain you'll find the same reluctance to getting your colon removed, most any where you go, unless the surgeon is less than reputable. It seems like a last resort sort of procedure, an option not taken lightly. You don't seem too interested in listening to your doctors, or following their instructions, making it a high risk procedure.


It's not a high risk procedure. A Judge Goodwine here in Lexington, Ky. had hers removed. It is and has been putting me at risk by not having it just as she was at risk before she had hers removed. If mine were removed then there's a goodchance (a play on Judge Goodwine's name) that I could be active like her. She was a Circuit Court Judge but vacated that position because she was elected to a higher court. I have talked to people around her and am aware of what she went through.

https://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Fayette-Judge-Jazzercize-instructor-uses-tragedy-to-triumph-354044281.html
Edited on 19-05-2019 17:41
19-05-2019 18:31
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
I'm fairly certain you'll find the same reluctance to getting your colon removed, most any where you go, unless the surgeon is less than reputable. It seems like a last resort sort of procedure, an option not taken lightly. You don't seem too interested in listening to your doctors, or following their instructions, making it a high risk procedure. The surgery might be $2,000, but you have to stay in the hospital a few weeks. It also involves the services of several other specialist, drugs, after care.

You talk about England all the time, as if you live there, or spent much of your life there. Kin of a surprise, you stating other wise. Sort of raising a lot of question marks on everything you've posted here. Main reason why I never got interested in social media.



You talk about England all the time, as if you live there, or spent much of your life there.



Americans hate Scandinavian countries. Since England is well liked by Americans, it provides a different perspective. After all, as you've shown, anyone who doesn't agree with President Trump is wrong. England takes American politics out of many issues. They also have better health care than the US at only 60% of the cost per capita. It's health care is ranked #18 globally while the US is ranked #37. Don't you want to get your money's worth?
Believe anything you want Harvey. This is why I've been working on my project. People don't want to believe that doctors will abuse patients.

I'm fairly certain you'll find the same reluctance to getting your colon removed, most any where you go, unless the surgeon is less than reputable. It seems like a last resort sort of procedure, an option not taken lightly. You don't seem too interested in listening to your doctors, or following their instructions, making it a high risk procedure.


It's not a high risk procedure. A Judge Goodwine here in Lexington, Ky. had hers removed. It is and has been putting me at risk by not having it just as she was at risk before she had hers removed. If mine were removed then there's a goodchance (a play on Judge Goodwine's name) that I could be active like her. She was a Circuit Court Judge but vacated that position because she was elected to a higher court. I have talked to people around her and am aware of what she went through.

https://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Fayette-Judge-Jazzercize-instructor-uses-tragedy-to-triumph-354044281.html


edited to add: no one finds it strange that the IPCC issued a report that it immediately started working to discredit?
20-05-2019 20:54
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3851)
James___ wrote:edited to add: no one finds it strange that the IPCC issued a report that it immediately started working to discredit?

Why should anyone care if a religio-political organization backpedals on an issue of their own religion?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-05-2019 22:06
Wake
★★★★★
(4026)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?


It is not a right. It is a reason the government was formed. It is not a grant of any kind of power to that government, but a directive to guide how powers will be given to it are to be used. Powers given to Congress are specified in Article 1, Section 8, as amended. Powers given to the President are specified in Article 2, as amended. Powers given to the courts are specified in Article 3, as amended.

The federal government has NO OTHER POWERS other than what is given through the amendment process. The States own the Constitution of the United States. They are the ONLY ones that can amend it. No court has power over the constitution. Only the States do.

The 'general welfare' clause is not a power granted to the federal government. If it were, why have a constitution in the first place?

The lie that the 'general welfare' clause is a power enumerated to the federal government comes from the liberals, for they want to overthrow that constitution and implement fascism by oligarchy instead.



The US is an oligarchy. That's why the rich and powerful like President Trump makes decisions for people like you and Harvey. He is your personal Jesus.


Are you for real? Are you telling us that Ocasio-Cortez is a billionaire control freak? Or that those two anti-Semitic Muslims are oligarchs?

I suggest you actually take a civics class and learn how the government works.

This country is run by the middle class because that is the majority of voters. They say who does what, where and when. If you don't like it you can always move to Iran under the kind of system you think is superior.
20-05-2019 22:53
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
Wake wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?


It is not a right. It is a reason the government was formed. It is not a grant of any kind of power to that government, but a directive to guide how powers will be given to it are to be used. Powers given to Congress are specified in Article 1, Section 8, as amended. Powers given to the President are specified in Article 2, as amended. Powers given to the courts are specified in Article 3, as amended.

The federal government has NO OTHER POWERS other than what is given through the amendment process. The States own the Constitution of the United States. They are the ONLY ones that can amend it. No court has power over the constitution. Only the States do.

The 'general welfare' clause is not a power granted to the federal government. If it were, why have a constitution in the first place?

The lie that the 'general welfare' clause is a power enumerated to the federal government comes from the liberals, for they want to overthrow that constitution and implement fascism by oligarchy instead.



The US is an oligarchy. That's why the rich and powerful like President Trump makes decisions for people like you and Harvey. He is your personal Jesus.


Are you for real? Are you telling us that Ocasio-Cortez is a billionaire control freak? Or that those two anti-Semitic Muslims are oligarchs?

I suggest you actually take a civics class and learn how the government works.

This country is run by the middle class because that is the majority of voters. They say who does what, where and when. If you don't like it you can always move to Iran under the kind of system you think is superior.



Isn't that rather extreme on your part Wake. I never said I thought Iran had a better system. I must have hit a nerve because as they say that the truth hurts.
20-05-2019 23:35
Wake
★★★★★
(4026)
James___ wrote:
Wake wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?


It is not a right. It is a reason the government was formed. It is not a grant of any kind of power to that government, but a directive to guide how powers will be given to it are to be used. Powers given to Congress are specified in Article 1, Section 8, as amended. Powers given to the President are specified in Article 2, as amended. Powers given to the courts are specified in Article 3, as amended.

The federal government has NO OTHER POWERS other than what is given through the amendment process. The States own the Constitution of the United States. They are the ONLY ones that can amend it. No court has power over the constitution. Only the States do.

The 'general welfare' clause is not a power granted to the federal government. If it were, why have a constitution in the first place?

The lie that the 'general welfare' clause is a power enumerated to the federal government comes from the liberals, for they want to overthrow that constitution and implement fascism by oligarchy instead.



The US is an oligarchy. That's why the rich and powerful like President Trump makes decisions for people like you and Harvey. He is your personal Jesus.


Are you for real? Are you telling us that Ocasio-Cortez is a billionaire control freak? Or that those two anti-Semitic Muslims are oligarchs?

I suggest you actually take a civics class and learn how the government works.

This country is run by the middle class because that is the majority of voters. They say who does what, where and when. If you don't like it you can always move to Iran under the kind of system you think is superior.



Isn't that rather extreme on your part Wake. I never said I thought Iran had a better system. I must have hit a nerve because as they say that the truth hurts.


The only nerve you hit and continue to hit is that in which someone that has grown up in the USA doesn't even know how the F-ing government works. How can you be so stupid? How can you even live with yourself? As stupid as you are you surely can't make a living. Are you parents supporting you?
21-05-2019 00:15
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
Wake wrote:

The only nerve you hit and continue to hit is that in which someone that has grown up in the USA doesn't even know how the F-ing government works. How can you be so stupid? How can you even live with yourself? As stupid as you are you surely can't make a living. Are you parents supporting you?



I did hit a nerve. If I am to move somewhere else, I'll listen to President Trump. He knows what middle class Americans like. And this is where you and Harvey should tell me to go if I don't like the way things are done in the US.

https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/trump-called-it-australia-has-better-healthcare-than-the-us-20170629-gx0wpz.html

Wake, I did save your bigoted post about when my father lived in Norway. Kind of supports dehammer's opinion that Americans hate Scandinavians. Thing is, I've put up with more severe discrimination because of my service connected hearing loss.
Fück€d üp büt thät's life, right?
Edited on 21-05-2019 00:36
21-05-2019 02:00
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(807)
Wake wrote:
James___ wrote:
Wake wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?


It is not a right. It is a reason the government was formed. It is not a grant of any kind of power to that government, but a directive to guide how powers will be given to it are to be used. Powers given to Congress are specified in Article 1, Section 8, as amended. Powers given to the President are specified in Article 2, as amended. Powers given to the courts are specified in Article 3, as amended.

The federal government has NO OTHER POWERS other than what is given through the amendment process. The States own the Constitution of the United States. They are the ONLY ones that can amend it. No court has power over the constitution. Only the States do.

The 'general welfare' clause is not a power granted to the federal government. If it were, why have a constitution in the first place?

The lie that the 'general welfare' clause is a power enumerated to the federal government comes from the liberals, for they want to overthrow that constitution and implement fascism by oligarchy instead.



The US is an oligarchy. That's why the rich and powerful like President Trump makes decisions for people like you and Harvey. He is your personal Jesus.


Are you for real? Are you telling us that Ocasio-Cortez is a billionaire control freak? Or that those two anti-Semitic Muslims are oligarchs?

I suggest you actually take a civics class and learn how the government works.

This country is run by the middle class because that is the majority of voters. They say who does what, where and when. If you don't like it you can always move to Iran under the kind of system you think is superior.



Isn't that rather extreme on your part Wake. I never said I thought Iran had a better system. I must have hit a nerve because as they say that the truth hurts.


The only nerve you hit and continue to hit is that in which someone that has grown up in the USA doesn't even know how the F-ing government works. How can you be so stupid? How can you even live with yourself? As stupid as you are you surely can't make a living. Are you parents supporting you?


Should feel too bad, vast majority of people who were born here, can't pass the same citizenship test given to immigrants... Iv'e never once left this country, and don't fully understand how the government works. Changes often, and there seems to be a lot of ancient hidden gems, they pull out, for special occasions.

A lot of states are changing there Abortion laws, something that was set in stone back in the 70's, challenged many times. I don't believe it should be used as contraception, or as easy as stopping off at a 7-11 for three pack. Women have the right to chose, before conception, which is a responsibility and consequence they should have take the time to consider before sharing that special moment, with any guy who buy's them a few drinks...

What I do understand, is that the people's 'voice' is in voting for a representatives in the government. Once in office, we can only hope they listen, and act in our best interest. What we actually see, is a group of representatives (legislators), doing what they feel is best for us, not necessarily what we actually want, and we are stuck with them for the duration of their term.
21-05-2019 18:45
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?


It is not a right. It is a reason the government was formed. It is not a grant of any kind of power to that government, but a directive to guide how powers will be given to it are to be used. Powers given to Congress are specified in Article 1, Section 8, as amended. Powers given to the President are specified in Article 2, as amended. Powers given to the courts are specified in Article 3, as amended.

The federal government has NO OTHER POWERS other than what is given through the amendment process. The States own the Constitution of the United States. They are the ONLY ones that can amend it. No court has power over the constitution. Only the States do.

The 'general welfare' clause is not a power granted to the federal government. If it were, why have a constitution in the first place?

The lie that the 'general welfare' clause is a power enumerated to the federal government comes from the liberals, for they want to overthrow that constitution and implement fascism by oligarchy instead.



The US is an oligarchy. That's why the rich and powerful like President Trump makes decisions for people like you and Harvey. He is your personal Jesus.

No, the U.S. is not an oligarchy. It is a federated republic. It has constitutions. Neither Trump nor Congress nor the Court can change the Constitution of the United States.

Trump was voted into office according to the procedure set forth in that constitution. He must make his decisions according to that constitution. Congress is no different. The Court is no different.


The Parrot Killer
21-05-2019 18:46
Wake
★★★★★
(4026)
James___ wrote:
Wake wrote:

The only nerve you hit and continue to hit is that in which someone that has grown up in the USA doesn't even know how the F-ing government works. How can you be so stupid? How can you even live with yourself? As stupid as you are you surely can't make a living. Are you parents supporting you?



I did hit a nerve. If I am to move somewhere else, I'll listen to President Trump. He knows what middle class Americans like. And this is where you and Harvey should tell me to go if I don't like the way things are done in the US.

https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/trump-called-it-australia-has-better-healthcare-than-the-us-20170629-gx0wpz.html

Wake, I did save your bigoted post about when my father lived in Norway. Kind of supports dehammer's opinion that Americans hate Scandinavians. Thing is, I've put up with more severe discrimination because of my service connected hearing loss.
Fück€d üp büt thät's life, right?


Most of us have hearing loses from the service. So what? If you didn't go into the service you could have hearing loses from attending rock shows. Even trucking on the streets used to easily exceed 135 decibels.

What is going on here is your moronic notion that the country is run by a cabal and not your vote. If you feel powerless here go elsewhere where you think that everything is just peachy keen.
21-05-2019 18:46
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
dehammer wrote:
Into the Night wrote:It is not possible to have anything owned by everyone.
That's why it always fails.


Essentially, yes. The government takes and takes and takes until there is nothing left to take.
They do not know how to produce something profitably, because governments do not have a profit motive.


The Parrot Killer
21-05-2019 18:48
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
dehammer wrote:
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?
THAT is the important word. It does not guarantee the welfare of anyone. It does not guarantee that the welfare will be that great. It only guarantee that it will promote it.

Its like how it says "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Some people claim that since something will make them happy, such as smoking, they have to be able to do it. It only guarantee that you can pursue smoking if that makes you happy. You can pursue taking drugs if it makes you happy, but only as long as you do not break the laws concerning them. That is why things with LSD got so bad when it did. There were no laws against it then, so it was completely legal. In the US, if there are no laws against it, you can do it. In other countries, it sometimes is illegal if you do not have laws permitting it.

There was a time in the US people could wear see through clothing because there was no laws against it. The laws only said you had to be dressed. A see through dress was clothing, so it was allowed. In other countries people were arrested because the laws did not specifically allow it.

In the US we promote general welfare but that does not make any promised other than we will promote it.

It is also not a power granted to the government.


The Parrot Killer
21-05-2019 18:50
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
James___ wrote:
The beginning of the preamble to the US Constitution;
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,

What does general welfare mean? Is that a right in the US or since the US is a capitalistic country, do you have to buy it?
THAT is the important word. It does not guarantee the welfare of anyone. It does not guarantee that the welfare will be that great. It only guarantee that it will promote it.

Its like how it says "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Some people claim that since something will make them happy, such as smoking, they have to be able to do it. It only guarantee that you can pursue smoking if that makes you happy. You can pursue taking drugs if it makes you happy, but only as long as you do not break the laws concerning them. That is why things with LSD got so bad when it did. There were no laws against it then, so it was completely legal. In the US, if there are no laws against it, you can do it. In other countries, it sometimes is illegal if you do not have laws permitting it.

There was a time in the US people could wear see through clothing because there was no laws against it. The laws only said you had to be dressed. A see through dress was clothing, so it was allowed. In other countries people were arrested because the laws did not specifically allow it.

In the US we promote general welfare but that does not make any promised other than we will promote it.



And when it denies American citizens health care, then it's not promoting the general welfare of the people.

pro·mote
/prəˈmōt/
verb
1.
further the progress of (something, especially a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage.

It's funny that you guys are defending a health care system that is the worst among industrialized countries that can be twice as expensive. England's (#18) is 60% of the US (#37) and after that about everyone else is under 50% per capita spending. And their health care is as good or better than the US'.
Might be why the US has more national debt than any country in the world. I doubt any other country has topped $20 Trillion. And that's only expected to get worse.

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

It is not authorized to grant health care. Nothing in the Constitution of the United States ever gave authority to the government to interfere with health care markets.

Obamacare is illegal. It is unconstitutional.


The Parrot Killer
21-05-2019 18:52
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
dehammer wrote:
Once again, you totally fail to understand the word. There is no guarantee that you will get health care. The constitution guarantees ONLY to promote it, not to make sure that everyone gets it. We have insurance for medicine and you can buy that to protect you from disastrous illness or accident. IF you choose not to avail yourself of it, that is your choice. It is strongly promoted, but not forced upon you.

Yes, health care in England is cheaper, but you can die waiting to be seen by a doctor, or you can pay 2 times what the US pays and see a doctor before the illness kills you.

Have you ever noticed that almost all the advance in medicine comes from the US? Almost all the new pills, almost all the new procedures. That is why our medicine is more expensive. Then after we pay for it, other countries get it for free.

Health care in England is not only more expensive (it's paid in the form of several combined taxes), it is slow to respond to a need. Canada's health care system is even worse. You might not get health care for days or even weeks, if at all.


The Parrot Killer
21-05-2019 18:55
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Once again, you totally fail to understand the word. There is no guarantee that you will get health care. The constitution guarantees ONLY to promote it, not to make sure that everyone gets it. We have insurance for medicine and you can buy that to protect you from disastrous illness or accident. IF you choose not to avail yourself of it, that is your choice. It is strongly promoted, but not forced upon you.

Yes, health care in England is cheaper, but you can die waiting to be seen by a doctor, or you can pay 2 times what the US pays and see a doctor before the illness kills you.

Have you ever noticed that almost all the advance in medicine comes from the US? Almost all the new pills, almost all the new procedures. That is why our medicine is more expensive. Then after we pay for it, other countries get it for free.



I live in the US. I know how things work here.

No, you don't, despite living in the US.
James___ wrote:
As people have told me, an American has 2 English speaking parents from the US.

What they told you was wrong. That is not necessarily true.
James___ wrote:
Ya'll probably only know one way of doing things. That's why most Americans don't consider me an American. As you said yourself dehammer, Americans hate Norwegians. Americans have to hate someone, right?

Paranoia.


The Parrot Killer
21-05-2019 18:56
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
It isn't that we hate them for things like that. The thing you don't know about those countries is they often come to America for the newest treatments and medicine. Socialism doesn't reward research into new medicine and methods of treatment. Capitalism does.



Talking about Scandinavian countries. They don't come here for health care. Scandinavian countries are also capitalist. The US is the only industrialized country that doesn't use the metric system or have universal health care.
Just have to be different and yet the US has become what Britain was in the 1700's. Isn't that funny?

It could be argued that the Constitution was written so we wouldn't become another England. Why do you think we play NFL football and baseball instead of soccer (World Cup Futbol) and cricket?
Learn some history.

People in the US do play soccer and cricket.


The Parrot Killer
21-05-2019 20:03
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
It isn't that we hate them for things like that. The thing you don't know about those countries is they often come to America for the newest treatments and medicine. Socialism doesn't reward research into new medicine and methods of treatment. Capitalism does.



Talking about Scandinavian countries. They don't come here for health care. Scandinavian countries are also capitalist. The US is the only industrialized country that doesn't use the metric system or have universal health care.
Just have to be different and yet the US has become what Britain was in the 1700's. Isn't that funny?

It could be argued that the Constitution was written so we wouldn't become another England. Why do you think we play NFL football and baseball instead of soccer (World Cup Futbol) and cricket?
Learn some history.

People in the US do play soccer and cricket.



Let me know when it's as popular as football or baseball, okay? You do seem to be ignorant. As for soccer, the U.S. women's team has won a World Cup. You didn't know this? Like IBNotDaMann, just causing problems. I wonder if he's your kimosabe. Any more I think he is. It's funny in a way and yet it's sad, this is the epitome of yours and his lives.
21-05-2019 21:56
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
It isn't that we hate them for things like that. The thing you don't know about those countries is they often come to America for the newest treatments and medicine. Socialism doesn't reward research into new medicine and methods of treatment. Capitalism does.



Talking about Scandinavian countries. They don't come here for health care. Scandinavian countries are also capitalist. The US is the only industrialized country that doesn't use the metric system or have universal health care.
Just have to be different and yet the US has become what Britain was in the 1700's. Isn't that funny?

It could be argued that the Constitution was written so we wouldn't become another England. Why do you think we play NFL football and baseball instead of soccer (World Cup Futbol) and cricket?
Learn some history.

People in the US do play soccer and cricket.



Let me know when it's as popular as football or baseball, okay?
Why? If you are that interested, you can go monitor that sort of thing yourself. I'm not your slave.
James___ wrote:
You do seem to be ignorant.
Inversion fallacy.
James___ wrote:
As for soccer, the U.S. women's team has won a World Cup. You didn't know this?

Yes I did. You just shot down your own argument.
James___ wrote:
Like IBNotDaMann, just causing problems.

You cause your own problems.


The Parrot Killer
21-05-2019 23:15
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1230)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
It isn't that we hate them for things like that. The thing you don't know about those countries is they often come to America for the newest treatments and medicine. Socialism doesn't reward research into new medicine and methods of treatment. Capitalism does.



Talking about Scandinavian countries. They don't come here for health care. Scandinavian countries are also capitalist. The US is the only industrialized country that doesn't use the metric system or have universal health care.
Just have to be different and yet the US has become what Britain was in the 1700's. Isn't that funny?

It could be argued that the Constitution was written so we wouldn't become another England. Why do you think we play NFL football and baseball instead of soccer (World Cup Futbol) and cricket?
Learn some history.

People in the US do play soccer and cricket.


True, but James is missing the free market point again. We mostly play what people will to pay to see. That seems to be car racing, football, baseball, basketball, and golf.
Edited on 21-05-2019 23:16
24-05-2019 05:53
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
It isn't that we hate them for things like that. The thing you don't know about those countries is they often come to America for the newest treatments and medicine. Socialism doesn't reward research into new medicine and methods of treatment. Capitalism does.



Talking about Scandinavian countries. They don't come here for health care. Scandinavian countries are also capitalist. The US is the only industrialized country that doesn't use the metric system or have universal health care.
Just have to be different and yet the US has become what Britain was in the 1700's. Isn't that funny?

It could be argued that the Constitution was written so we wouldn't become another England. Why do you think we play NFL football and baseball instead of soccer (World Cup Futbol) and cricket?
Learn some history.

People in the US do play soccer and cricket.


True, but James is missing the free market point again. We mostly play what people will to pay to see. That seems to be car racing, football, baseball, basketball, and golf.



I guess that's why the government allowed for no sales tax on internet purchases to give online businesses and advantage over brick and mortar stores for about the first 20 years of online retail. Or why the US has been basically running $Trillion deficits for over a decade and when Trump does it, it's Obama's fault.
That's why we have record low unemployment, increasing the national debt is creating jobs. Not investment by the private sector. That's Free Market Enterprise. Just imagine, 6% of the GDP is increasing the national debt. Yet during the 60's when we sent some people to the Moon, that's how much of the GDP a lunar landing cost Americans and yet the economy was growing.
24-05-2019 07:11
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
I'll give ya'all a break. It was disappointing to suggest entering a contest which could benefit the US but all people had were reasons not to. I mean, why give a fück about America if you're not getting paid to care, right? That is Free Market capitalism.
24-05-2019 18:43
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
It isn't that we hate them for things like that. The thing you don't know about those countries is they often come to America for the newest treatments and medicine. Socialism doesn't reward research into new medicine and methods of treatment. Capitalism does.



Talking about Scandinavian countries. They don't come here for health care. Scandinavian countries are also capitalist. The US is the only industrialized country that doesn't use the metric system or have universal health care.
Just have to be different and yet the US has become what Britain was in the 1700's. Isn't that funny?

It could be argued that the Constitution was written so we wouldn't become another England. Why do you think we play NFL football and baseball instead of soccer (World Cup Futbol) and cricket?
Learn some history.

People in the US do play soccer and cricket.


True, but James is missing the free market point again. We mostly play what people will to pay to see. That seems to be car racing, football, baseball, basketball, and golf.



I guess that's why the government allowed for no sales tax on internet purchases to give online businesses and advantage over brick and mortar stores for about the first 20 years of online retail. Or why the US has been basically running $Trillion deficits for over a decade and when Trump does it, it's Obama's fault.

None of this is being discussed. You wandered off topic again. Normally I remove irrelevant portions now in my responses.
James___ wrote:
That's why we have record low unemployment, increasing the national debt is creating jobs.

No, private industry is creating jobs.
James___ wrote:
Not investment by the private sector.

Yes, investment by the private sector. National debt has nothing to do with it.
James___ wrote:
That's Free Market Enterprise. Just imagine, 6% of the GDP is increasing the national debt.

No, reducing taxes and reducing regulations is why the economy is improving.
James___ wrote:
Yet during the 60's when we sent some people to the Moon, that's how much of the GDP a lunar landing cost Americans and yet the economy was growing.

Irrelevant.


The Parrot Killer
24-05-2019 18:44
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
James___ wrote:
I'll give ya'all a break. It was disappointing to suggest entering a contest which could benefit the US but all people had were reasons not to. I mean, why give a fück about America if you're not getting paid to care, right? That is Free Market capitalism.


Nope. The concept of capitalism eludes you still, despite having it explained to you several times.


The Parrot Killer
24-05-2019 19:09
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1230)
Why are you bitching about deficits? Did you bitch about Obama's deficits?

Aren't you the one touting gov death care...oh sorry I meant gov funded health care? How do you propose THAT without skyrocketing deficits??
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