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The ACTUAL Percentage of Atmospheric CO2



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28-08-2020 05:19
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7455)
duncan61 wrote:
I fully charged the device and moved it around where I was working.At no point in the day did it go below 500 ppm and mostly hovered between 510 and 530.The lowest reading I had was at 10 pm last night with the unit placed in the branches of the grape vine and it was 464ppm.Under the exhaust of my 4.0 jeep it boosted to 10,000 ppm straight away which is probably the max.In my car driving around with the window open it hovers between 700 and 1200.As I had it on all day it is fully drained which is a good thing.In my experience rechargable stuff develops a bit of a memory and you should fully drain and fully charge for the first few times


It looks like you might have waited all this time for a bad one. What were the user ratings? Do you remember?

Did you check to see if there are various settings - with you potentially having it on the wrong setting for what you want to measure?

I was reading an article that claims that CO2 meter accuracy is entirely dependent upon the range for which it was designed. Did you specify a CO2 meter range?

CO2 Sensor Measurement Range, Accuracy and Precision
February 07, 2018

CO2 percentage vs ppm

With all the various carbon dioxide meters, monitors and sensors we offer, it may feel overwhelming to choose between them. That's why one of the first questions we ask a client who calls is, "What are you trying to measure?" This question helps us determine the range of CO2 levels you'll want to measure, which narrows down the list of products we offer that can meet your needs.

It may at first seem logical that since we offer devices and sensors that measure up to 100% CO2, the simple answer would be "give me something that will measure everything!" The problem with this answer is that, in general, the higher the range of CO2 levels measured, the lower the accuracy. Conversely, the narrower the range, the more accurate each measurement will be.

It may help to start out by describing how CO2 is measured. For most products, the CO2 level is measured as a percentage of a volume of air either as a % or as parts-per-million (ppm).



A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-08-2020 06:40
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2396)
duncan61 wrote:
I fully charged the device and moved it around where I was working.At no point in the day did it go below 500 ppm and mostly hovered between 510 and 530.The lowest reading I had was at 10 pm last night with the unit placed in the branches of the grape vine and it was 464ppm.Under the exhaust of my 4.0 jeep it boosted to 10,000 ppm straight away which is probably the max.In my car driving around with the window open it hovers between 700 and 1200.As I had it on all day it is fully drained which is a good thing.In my experience rechargable stuff develops a bit of a memory and you should fully drain and fully charge for the first few times


Was there a user's manual? I'll look through my files and folders, and see if I can find some of the data sheets I was looking through, when sensor shopping. Remember some of them had a warm up time, few minutes. I don't remember looking at any that were intended for portable use, but then again, that wasn't my intended application either. Think some were made for car exhaust applications. Really don't read the whole document, just the specifications I'm interested in.
28-08-2020 07:27
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
In the bedroom on charge it was 898ppm I have parked it on the grape vine outside and it is 384ppm when the wind blows over it it drops a lot I will keep an eye on it all day.Today is cool and overcast yesterday was warm and sunny.It does not seem to matter if it is in the sun or shade
28-08-2020 07:37
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
I purchased the one with the best display some units measured too much stuff and it was hard to read.This unit displays the CO2 in big numbers in the middle of the screen and the temp on the bottom left and the humidity on the bottom right.I have no reason to believe it is wrong its only day 2 and the variation of readings is massive so to claim it is one thing is wrong
Attached image:

28-08-2020 07:38
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
OMG the picture posted.I will put some light on it and you will see the numbers
28-08-2020 07:45
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
This was as good as I could do.I am going to the range Tomorrow so will take some readings up in the hills.There are some remote beaches down south where I am going to visit my parents so that could be interesting.Be aware I am living 10K north of perth city which is where I am currently monitoring
Attached image:

29-08-2020 03:06
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
I am up the hills and the reading is 412ppm but it has dropped to 380ppm. I am developing confidence that the atmospheric concentration is around 400ppm so the next issue is is this a problem it is still a tiny amount
Attached image:

29-08-2020 03:08
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
Dropping
Attached image:

31-08-2020 04:46
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
It was 384 ppm at the estuary and at my parents all weekend
31-08-2020 07:36
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7455)
duncan61 wrote:
It was 384 ppm at the estuary and at my parents all weekend


What's the altitude on the estuary?

Are you writing all these down in a journal?


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-08-2020 09:25
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
duncan61 wrote:
This was as good as I could do....


Wow thanks for this Duncan! It's really interesting to see real readings.
31-08-2020 13:31
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
The altitude at the estuary is about 2 metres.I was out on a jetty and sat it on a pole.It is early but it seems the CO2 is well diluted at sea level and in the high 300s in this part of the world.The altitude at the rifle range is 980 feet or 300 metres and it is heavily forested and underpopulated
31-08-2020 13:47
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
duncan61 wrote:
The altitude at the estuary is about 2 metres.I was out on a jetty and sat it on a pole.It is early but it seems the CO2 is well diluted at sea level and in the high 300s in this part of the world.The altitude at the rifle range is 980 feet or 300 metres and it is heavily forested and underpopulated


I found this:"Here at CO2Meter, our rule of thumb is that the CO2 level at altitude will change about 3% for every 1,000 feet (300m). At 5,000 feet, that would be 400ppm less 15%, or about 340ppm."
link

And here's a chart showing 4 locations:


Samoa is pretty close to you. I'm curious how you're getting readings below 400.

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/obop/smo/

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/data/index.php?category=Greenhouse%2BGases&site=SMO&parameter_name=Carbon%2BDioxide

I downloaded the data and had a look at it shows: 410.620
presently. Elevation: 42.00 Metres above sea level

So your elevation is 300 meters vs. 42 so that should be about 11ppm drop or 399ppm if Samoa shows 410 and you're measuring the same concentration.
Edited on 31-08-2020 13:49
31-08-2020 16:50
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1211)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
This was as good as I could do....


Wow thanks for this Duncan! It's really interesting to see real readings.

It's also already shown that CO2 concentration is not uniform throughout the atmosphere and that even within one location it will fluctuate within a rather short amount of time.
31-08-2020 17:07
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1211)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
The altitude at the estuary is about 2 metres.I was out on a jetty and sat it on a pole.It is early but it seems the CO2 is well diluted at sea level and in the high 300s in this part of the world.The altitude at the rifle range is 980 feet or 300 metres and it is heavily forested and underpopulated


I found this:"Here at CO2Meter, our rule of thumb is that the CO2 level at altitude will change about 3% for every 1,000 feet (300m). At 5,000 feet, that would be 400ppm less 15%, or about 340ppm."
link

And here's a chart showing 4 locations:


Samoa is pretty close to you. I'm curious how you're getting readings below 400.

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/obop/smo/

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/data/index.php?category=Greenhouse%2BGases&site=SMO&parameter_name=Carbon%2BDioxide

I downloaded the data and had a look at it shows: 410.620
presently. Elevation: 42.00 Metres above sea level

So your elevation is 300 meters vs. 42 so that should be about 11ppm drop or 399ppm if Samoa shows 410 and you're measuring the same concentration.

Time makes a difference... weather makes a difference... location makes a difference... instrumentation makes a difference... and so on...
31-08-2020 19:42
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
The altitude at the estuary is about 2 metres.I was out on a jetty and sat it on a pole.It is early but it seems the CO2 is well diluted at sea level and in the high 300s in this part of the world.The altitude at the rifle range is 980 feet or 300 metres and it is heavily forested and underpopulated


I found this:"Here at CO2Meter, our rule of thumb is that the CO2 level at altitude will change about 3% for every 1,000 feet (300m). At 5,000 feet, that would be 400ppm less 15%, or about 340ppm."
link

And here's a chart showing 4 locations:


Samoa is pretty close to you. I'm curious how you're getting readings below 400.

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/obop/smo/

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/data/index.php?category=Greenhouse%2BGases&site=SMO&parameter_name=Carbon%2BDioxide

I downloaded the data and had a look at it shows: 410.620
presently. Elevation: 42.00 Metres above sea level

So your elevation is 300 meters vs. 42 so that should be about 11ppm drop or 399ppm if Samoa shows 410 and you're measuring the same concentration.

Math error. RQAA. Use of random numbers as data. Denial of math. False authority fallacy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-09-2020 01:04
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
7,519 km
Distance from Perth to Samoa
ITN if you are not going to participate in the debate F off you just kill all debate with this denial of everything mentality.I am enjoying this discussion and have an open mind.On other forums you can block members and you dont have to see their posts.If you know everything why are you even here
01-09-2020 01:07
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
The meter changes every 30 seconds and can show 10 -20 variation.It does have a +- 40ppm.I will film it today
02-09-2020 03:27
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
gfm7175 wrote:...CO2...will fluctuate within a rather short amount of time.

But how much does it fluctuate? Almost nothing in the universe is even steven with no fluctuation at all.

What's "a lot" is a qualified/subjective determination. Within the context of CO2 levels having risen from 300 to 400 ppm I consider a fluctuation of +/-5ppm to be nothing deserving attention.
Note this map from 2014 shows levels between 395 and 400 ppm over most of the globe.

duncan61 wrote:It does have a +- 40ppm.I will film it today
So the accuracy is +/- 40 ?
That could explain a lot.
02-09-2020 17:59
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1211)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...CO2...will fluctuate within a rather short amount of time.

But how much does it fluctuate? Almost nothing in the universe is even steven with no fluctuation at all.

What's "a lot" is a qualified/subjective determination. Within the context of CO2 levels having risen from 300 to 400 ppm

From when to when? Why is that time period significant as opposed to any other time period? What valid data can you provide me with? Oh, that's right, NONE... because it is not possible to measure global CO2 levels to any usable accuracy. There aren't enough CO2 stations, among numerous other issues. This has already been discussed with you ad nauseum.

tmiddles wrote:
Note this map from 2014 shows levels between 395 and 400 ppm over most of the globe.

Made up numbers (even if made into a pretty looking and colorful display) are summarily dismissed. Made up numbers are not data.

tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:It does have a +- 40ppm.I will film it today
So the accuracy is +/- 40 ?
That could explain a lot.

Mantras 10g, 20z1. The TOLERANCE of his device is +/- 40ppm.
Edited on 02-09-2020 18:04
03-09-2020 01:38
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
gfm7175 wrote:...it is not possible to measure global CO2 levels to any usable accuracy.
What do you consider a usable accuracy and why?

You are aware Duncan has a Co2 meter in his possession at this time and is able to use it to measure aren't you?

Is there anything that can be measured to a usable accuracy? Anything at all. We could contrast that with the ability to measure CO2ppm in the air.

I know you don't believe temperature can ever be know:
gfm7175 wrote:
I have no clue what the temperature of my house is.
03-09-2020 01:57
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(570)
I went out to the fishing boat harbour in Fremantle and measured at the end of the groyne with a howling S/W wind in my face coming straight of the Indian ocean and it was 390ppm.I an happy with phase 1 that the CO2 level is around 400ppm.Now for phase 2.So what??
03-09-2020 02:12
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
duncan61 wrote:...Now for phase 2.So what??

That's:
duncan61 wrote:The extra CO2 must make the planet warmer [in order for CC theory to be correct]
I would add "warming of several degrees within the next 100 years", "Significant warming" or something like that.

I think that's a hard one man. I'm hung up on the fact that Mars has way more greenhouse gasses in the form of CO2 than we do but shows minimal extra temp at ground level.

Correlation is not causation so VENUS doesn't prove anything about CO2 on it's face particularly if you consider MARS.

Your "step 2" is the big question here.

Of course just because a problem is hard to solve does not make it illegitimate or mean you can assume there is nothing to it.
03-09-2020 05:07
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...it is not possible to measure global CO2 levels to any usable accuracy.
What do you consider a usable accuracy and why?

You are aware Duncan has a Co2 meter in his possession at this time and is able to use it to measure aren't you?

One meter doesn't measure the whole world, dumbass. CO2 is not uniformly distributed in the atmosphere. Again, you deny statistical math.
tmiddles wrote:
Is there anything that can be measured to a usable accuracy? Anything at all. We could contrast that with the ability to measure CO2ppm in the air.

I know you don't believe temperature can ever be know:

And he is right. You just deny statistical math. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth or Venus. It is not possible to measure the CO2 concentration of the Earth or Venus.

CO2 is incapable of warming the Earth.

No argument presented. Denial of mathematics. Denial of science.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
03-09-2020 05:12
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:...Now for phase 2.So what??

That's:
duncan61 wrote:The extra CO2 must make the planet warmer [in order for CC theory to be correct]
I would add "warming of several degrees within the next 100 years", "Significant warming" or something like that.

Random numbers. Denial of the first law of thermodynamics. Mantras 25c...25g...20a1...
tmiddles wrote:
I think that's a hard one man. I'm hung up on the fact that Mars has way more greenhouse gasses in the form of CO2 than we do but shows minimal extra temp at ground level.

Mantras 22g...20a1...

Correlation is not causation so VENUS doesn't prove anything about CO2 on it's face particularly if you consider MARS.
tmiddles wrote:
Your "step 2" is the big question here.

Of course just because a problem is hard to solve does not make it illegitimate or mean you can assume there is nothing to it.

There is nothing to it. Mantras 20a1. No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth, Venus, Mars, or any other planet.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
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