RE: Manganese oxide in banded iron formations13-04-2025 01:04 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Manganese oxide in banded iron formations As photosynthetic ecosystem community succession laid down the various layers of banded iron formation, at some point there were terminal electron acceptors powerful enough to oxidize manganese introduced. During the period when iron based photosynthetic bacteria were dominant, they generated ferric iron as the oxidized waste product of photosynthesis. Ferric iron is not a strong enough oxidant to oxidize manganese(II) to manganese(IV). Manganese would not be oxidized to form manganese(IV) precipitates on the sea floor until photosynthesis started producing a stronger oxidant. Oxygen, obviously, qualifies. Once oxygen became available in sea water, it would inevitably lead to the oxidation of manganese. A manganese enriched layer would indicate the onset of dominance by the photosynthetic community that produces oxygen. Or does it. Two other potential candidates to oxidize all that manganese were arsenic(V) arsenate, or nitrate. Both of these terminal electron acceptors are the oxidized waste product of anoxygenic photosynthesis. Arsenic based photosynthesis uses arsenic(III) arsenite as reductant, and creates arsenic(V) arsenate as the oxidized waste product. Nitrite based photosynthesis uses nitrite, NO2- as reductant, and creates nitrate, NO3- as the oxidized waste product. If arsenic based photosynthesis or nitrite based photosynthesis had come to dominate at any point in the photosynthetic community succession, it would have left a trail of manganese on the sea floor as evidence. Arsenic(V) is a strong enough terminal acceptor to oxidize manganese(II) to manganese(IV). Nitrate is an even stronger terminal electron acceptor than arsenic(V), and certainly could have oxidized manganese. So, manganese could appear EARLIER in the banded iron formation sequence, before OXYGEN was yet being generated by the dominant photosynthetic community. So where can I find the literature about whether or not there was ever enough arsenic(III) or nitrite in sea water to make anoxygenic photosynthesis using these reductants competitive? We know they do it TODAY in arsenic(III) rich microsites, or in nitrite rich microsites. That's the only reason we know arsenic-based or nitrite-based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria ever even existed. The presence of oxidized manganese in an unexpected layer of the banded iron formation, at a time when oxygen wasn't present yet, may be the proof that arsenic based photosynthesis or nitrite based photosynthesis really DID dominate the sea's photosynthetic community at one point. |
RE: I had to discontinue my research into paleobiogeochemitry13-04-2025 01:06 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
I had to discontinue my research into paleobiogeochemistry, anoxygenic photosynthesis, and banded iron formations when I became disabled about fifteen years ago. Now that I look for the newest literature, I am stunned by how little it has advanced. Nobody has yet spelled out that it was photosynthetic ecosystem community succession that resulted in chemically distinct layers. Anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria sequentially depleted the reductants, from strongest to weakest, until there were none left to support photosynthesis. Vulcanism's emission of hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide always started the banded iron formation sequence over again, no matter how far it had gotten. In the earliiest days, it didn't get far. There was still always plenty of hydrogen sulfide around to support anoxygenic photosynthesis at all stages of formation of microbanded banded iron. The next episode of vulcanism was always going to replenish the hydrogen before hydrogen sulfide had time to be depleted. Only two kinds of layers, from two kinds of anoxygenic photosynthesis. Nearly 4000 years ago, the thin flexible crust of the Earth vibrated with a constant and regular rhythm. Like the Old Faithful geyser at Yelowstone, the episodic emission of hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide rich geothermal steam happened on a regular schedule back on those days. The microbanded banded iron formations show an astounding consistency of spacing between the layers, over and over and over and over. They thought they were "annual varves" because it looks like a very consistent pattern of sediment deposition at regular intervals, thought to have been an annual cycle. No, it wasn't an annual cycle. It wasn't nearly as high frequency a cycle as Old Faithful geyser, but it was the very same phenomenon on a slower, global scale. A consistent regular cycle of vulcanism spewing hydrothermal steam on a schedule you could practically set your clock to. Calculations from the "annual varves" showed that much iron couldn't have been laid down in a single year of ANY kind of photosynthesis. But if may have been as frequent as every few decades when the earth would have its regularly scheduled fit of vulcanism. Fifteen years later, I see they FINALLY take seriously the role of anoxygenic iron oxidizing photosynthetic bacteria. Yes, they were there depositing ferric iron on the sea floor before cyanobacteria got in and added much oxygen. And the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic community NEVER left. They just got exiled to the shade beneath the oxygenic photosynthetic community. So, I need to see if there is pyrite free iron in the lower iron layers to confirm if anoxygenic photosynthetic iron oxidation occured in the absence of any oxygen. With no sulfate in the water, no pyrite would have formed on the sea floor. With no oxygen, and no more sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthesis, there would have been no source of sulfate for pyrite generation If there is pyrite free iron in the lower portion of the iron rich bands, it a strong indicator that cyanobacteria weren't there making oxygen. The iron was all being oxidized by photosynthetic bacteria. If it goes on to then contain pyrite in higher layers of the iron bands, that indicates that cyanobacteria had generated oxygen which lead to oxidation of sulfur and generation of sulfate to be available to form pyrite on the sea floor. Arsenic and nitrite are two wild cards, either of which may account for unique layers in the banded iron formations. If there were sufficient arsenic(III) to support arsenic based anoxygenic photosynthesis, they would have been the strongest competitors to move in when the hydrogen sulfide ran out. Arsenic(III) is a stronger reductant than ferrous iron(II). It gives more bang for the buck from the same amount of sunlight when used for anoxygenic photosynthesis. Arsenic based photosynthetic bacteria would have moved into dominance, out growing any iron oxidizing photosynthetic bacteria who tried to compete. If there were ever enough arsenic in the sea to support arsenic based anoxygenic photosynthesis, then there is an arsenic enriched layer in the banded iron formation, just a couple of layers up from the chert at the base. Arsenic(V) arsenate binds tightly to ferric iron(III). If the first iron enriched layer is also arsenic enriched, then arsenic(III) WAS an important reductant in the sea that once supported the dominant photosynthetic community. Arsenic(V) is a strong enough terminal electron acceptor to oxidize manganese(II) to manganese(IV), so the presence of oxidized manganese in the sea floor would also be consistent with arsenic based anoxygenic photosynthesis having once been the dominant community. However, nitrate is ALSO a strong enough terminal electron acceptor to oxidize manganese(II) to manganese(IV). Stronger than arsenic(V) as an oxidant, nitrate would have brought about manganese oxidation. A manganese rich layer that does NOT contain any arsenic could be an indicator that nitrite based photosynthesis had come into to dominance. But OXYGEN is an even STRONGER terminal electron acceptor that nitrate or arsenic(V). When oxygen was present, manganese was getting oxidized and precipitating on the sea floor. If nitrite were ever abundant enough to support photosynthesis, the manganese laid down on the sea floor after being oxidized by nitrate would have fallen into unique chemical conditions. The presence of nitrate, due to nitrite based photosynthesis, would have caused carbonate to form along with oxidized manganese on the sea floor. Nitrate is used as a terminal electron acceptor by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon for metabolic energy. The oxidized carbon product of nitrate reduction is not carbon dioxide, but rather it is carbonate. Manganese with carbonate would indicate that NITRITE based photosynthesis was responsible for oxidizing the manganese. Manganese without carbonate would be consistent with OXYGEN having been the terminal electron acceptor that oxidized the manganese. Unfortunately I lost ALL my physical copies of the banded iron formation papers and my notebooks on the subject, so I'm going to have to start again from scratch. I'll start by looking up the arsenic and manganese analysis of banded iron formations for more clues. |
RE: Carbonates in Archaean Sea Floor Sedimants13-04-2025 01:08 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Carbonates in Archeaen Sea Floor Sediments Every banded iron formation, no matter how old, has pure chert as the bottom layer of each sequence or pair of fossilized marine sediment layers. This layer is pure silica and contains no iron. And no carbonates. Why no carbonates? When hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthesis dominated the ecosystem, the oxidized waste product of their photosynthesis was not a terminal electron acceptor. The hydrogen they took in as reductant was oxidized to water. Hydrogen based photosynthesis does not produce terminal electron acceptors that can be used in the formation of carbonate. No carbonate in the sea floor. When the sulfur-based anoxygenic photosynthesis came into dominance as the second community in the succession sequence - after HYDROGEN was depleted - the oxidized waste product of their photosynthesis created a terminal electron acceptor. Hydrogen sulfide was taken in as reductant for photosynthesis, and sulfate was the oxidized waste product. Sulfate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor for bacteria to oxidize organic carbon for energy. However, the oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is NOT carbon dioxide. It is carbonate, CO3(2-). Sulfate reduction generates carbonate, along with iron pyrite, in the sea floor when the sulfur-based photosynthetic community dominates. The sea floor under them is comprised of organic carbon, iron pyrite, and carbonate. This does not fossilize into a pure chert layer. It is chert, laced with the traces of iron pyrite and carbonate that sulfate reduction added to it. If, and ONLY if there were ever enough enough arsenic(III) arsenite in sea water to support anoxygenic photosynthesis, THEY would have been the third community in the succession sequence. Arsenite is a weaker reductant than hydrogen sulfide. But it is a stronger reductant than ferrous iron(II). Once the hydrogen sulfide was depleted, the field was open for the third kind of photosynthetic community to come in and dominate in the succession sequence. Arsenic based photosynthesis would have been favored over iron based photosynthesis, if arsenic(III) were available in sufficient supply. Arsenite is a stronger reductant than ferrous iron. The bacteria who feed arsenite as a reductant into their photosynthesis get more bang for the buck from sunlight than the bacteria who use ferrous iron as reductant for photosynthesis. If arsenic(III) were there, then arsenic based photosynthesis was the third wave in the ecosystem community succession, after hydrogen sulfide was depleted. Arsenic based anoxygenic photosynthesis uses arsenic(III) arsenite as reductant, and creates arsenic(V) arsenate as the oxidized waste product. Arsenic(V) is a terminal electron acceptor that can be used by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon for energy. The oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is NOT carbon dioxide. Arsenic reducing bacteria produce carbonate from the organic carbon they oxidize. This would leave carbonate in the sea floor. Arsenic(V) is not as soluble in sea water as arsenic(III). The sea floor material that accumulated while arsenic based photosynthesis would have contained organic carbon, and carbonate from arsenic reduction. It would have also contained arsenic(V). Arsenic(V) arsenate strongly adsorbs to solid ferric iron surfaces, or co precipitates with ferric iron out of solution, if ferric iron happens to be in solution. But at this stage in the community succession, there shouldn't have been much ferric iron in the water or seafloor for arsenic(V) to adsorb to or co precipitate with. If iron based photosynthesis and arsenic based photosynthesis co existed, the result would be ferric-iron-bound-arsenate in the sea floor, as well as carbonate, and lots of organic matter. Iron based photosynthesis would have been the fourth community in the succession sequence if arsenic(III) were available as reductant for anoxygenic photosynthesis. Without enough arsenic(III) to support that kind of photosynthesis, Iron based photosynthesis would have been the THIRD community in the succession sequence that created banded iron formations. Iron based photosynthesis takes in ferrous iron(II) as reductant, and produces ferric iron(III) as the oxidized waste product. Ferric iron(III) can be used as a terminal electron acceptor by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon for energy. The oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is CARBONATE, not carbon dioxide. They too added carbonate to the sea floor when iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis was dominant. It is conceivable that nitrite based anoxygenic photosynthesis contributed to banded iron formations, but two conditions would have been required. There would have to have been enough nitrite in the water somewhere to support it. And there would have to have been such low concentrations of ferrous iron(II) in that zone that the iron based photosynthetic bacteria, using their stronger reductant, couldn't easily outcompete them. SOMEWHERE in the sea it could have happened. Especially if a nitrite based photosynthetic bacteria teamed up with an iron oxidizer who uses nitrate for a terminal electron acceptor. The photosynthetic bacteria could have fed his waste product nitrate directly to an iron oxidizing partner. Nitrate could have been used to oxidize and deplete the ferrous iron in the water, making it unavailable for iron based photosynthesis. Nitrate is a strong enough oxidant to oxidize manganese, and that should have left its fingerprints in the sediment. And when nitrate is used as a terminal electron acceptor by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon, the oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is CARBONATE, not carbon dioxide. More seafloor carbonate. Get back to this later. |
RE: SIX KINDS OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS - Reductants and oxidized waste products13-04-2025 01:10 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
SIX KINDS OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS - Reductants and oxidized waste products 1. Hydrogen based photosynthesis Reduced hydrogen, H2 is taken in as reductant. Water, H2O, is the oxidized hydrogen waste product of photosynthesis. 2. Sulfur based photosynthesis Reduced sulfur (H2S, methionate, etc) is taken in as reductant. Sulfate, SO4(2-) is the oxidized sulfur waste product of photosynthesis 3. Arsenic based photosynthesis Reduced arsenic, As(III) arsenite is taken in as reductant. Arsenic(V) arsenate is the oxidized arsenic waste product of photosynthesis. 4. Iron based photosynthesis Reduced iron, ferrous iron(II) us taken in as reductant. Ferric iron(III) is the oxidized iron waste product of photosynthesis. 5. Nitrogen based photosynthesis Reduced nitrogen, nitrite, NO2- is taken in as reductant. Nitrate, NO3- is the oxidized nitrogen waste product of photosynthesis. 6. Oxygen based photosynthesis Reduced oxygen, water, H2O is taken is as reductant. Oxygen gas, O2 is the oxidized oxygen waste product of photosynthesis. The rank order from 1 to 6 goes from strongest to weakest reductant. Hydrogen based photosynthesis has the strongest reductant, H2, and the most productive photosynthesis. Oxygen based photosynthesis has the weakest reductant, H2O, and the least productive photosynthesis. The rank order from 1 to 6 goes from the weakest to strongest oxidant produced as waste product of photosynthesis. Hydrogen based photosynthesis generates the weakest oxidant, H2O, as oxidized waste product. Oxidized hydrogen, also known as water, is not used as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon or anything else. Oxygen based photosynthesis generates the strongest oxidant, O2, as oxidized waste product. Oxidized oxygen, also known as oxygen gas or O2, is used as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon, or anything else, for highest energy yield. |
13-04-2025 01:36 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Paleobiogeochemistry, Anoxygenic Photosynthesis, and Banded Iron Formations Episodic vulcanism filled the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. While hydrogen was available, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community, and deposited pure organic matter on the sea floor. This organic matter remained unblemished because there were virtually no terminal electron acceptors (i.e. oxidants) that could be used to oxidize it for metabolic energy. When it fossilized, all the organic carbon was replaced by silica to become a layer of pure chert. EVERY banded iron formation from 2000-4000 million years begins with a layer of pure chert at the bottom. Hydrogen floats off to outer space. When the vulcanism ceased, the hydrogen diminished until there was none left to support anoxygenic photosynthesis. This is when the sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria take over. They use hydrogen sulfide as reductant for photosynthesis. They generated sulfate as the oxidized waste product. Sulfate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor by sulfate reducing bacteria to oxidize organic carbon in the sea floor. This generate ferrous sulfide or iron pyrite. This iron pyrite was mixed in with the organic matter that accumulated on the sea floor during the time sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community. Organic matter mixed with iron pyrite fossilizes into iron-laced chert. All the organic carbon and nearly all the sulfur have been replaced with silica. The layer just above the bottom layer of chert in banded iron formations is always iron laced chert. When the hydrogen sulfide finally ran out, after enough time without vulcanism, the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria finally had their chance to dominate the photosynthetic community. Iron based photosynthesis uses ferrous iron(II) as reductant for photosynthesis. It generates ferric iron(III) as the oxidized waste product. Ferric iron(III) is insoluble in sea water, so it rained down on the sea floor while the iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis dominated. They laid down organic matter and ferric iron(III) on the sea floor. They did not form any iron pyrite because the sulfur based photosynthetic community was gone and no longer generating sulfate for pyrite formation. This layer of organic carbon and ferric iron(III) fossilized into iron ore. And those are just the first three layers. Follow up later with what happens when community succession moves on to have oxygenic cyanobacteria as the dominant photosynthetic community in the high light zone. Putting oxygen in the sea water certainly influence the chemistry of the sediments. At any time this succession can get reset. Another big asteroid can crash, filling the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. Starting the banded iron formation sequence all over again. And it would take a VERY long time before all the ferrous iron(II) was finally going to be depleted from the ocean. |
13-04-2025 01:37 | |
Swan![]() (6496) |
Im a BM wrote: If you take a plane ride, do they make you buy a ticket for every personality? IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD. According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND. ULTRA MAGA "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic? ![]() Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy ![]() Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL |
13-04-2025 01:37 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Banded Iron Formations - 2000 Million Years of Ubiquitous Ferrous Iron. During the first 2000 million years of life on Earth, from about 4000-2000 million years ago, There was almost always plenty of ferrous iron(II) dissolved in sea water. There was almost nothing around to oxidize it to ferric iron(III), with the singular exception of oxygen, O2, produced exclusively by oxygenic photosynthetic bacteria. No matter how much of a bumper crop of oxygen those cyanobacteria could put out in a whole year, it was much LESS than a "drop in the bucket" when it came to oxidizing the total pool of ferrous iron in the sea. The Banded Iron Formations are extremely ancient rocks formed from marine sediments over a period from about 2000-4000 million years ago. A major source of high grade iron ore, the "younger" banded iron formations (less than 3000 million years old) have thick layers of ferric iron(III) at the top of each banded iron sequence. Those thick layers of high grade iron ore deposited over and over as the sequences of sediment layers formed, each time the oxygen producing photosynthetic community came back into dominance at the surface of the water. During those periods when widespread global volcanic activity had ceased for long enough, Reductants such as hydrogen, H2 and hydrogen sulfide, H2S were depleted from the sea water. This was when the oxygen makers could dominate and bring about the oxidation of a lot of ferrous iron(II) to become ferric iron(III) deposited on the seafloor. Eventually the Earth would get restless again, especially if given a good hard punch from a large asteroid, and spew up a whole lot of hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide again. This enabled anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria to over run the oxygenic photosythetic community. This marked the beginning of a period of sediment deposition without any ferric iron piling up on the sea floor. As the Earth had periodic fits of vulcanism, the banded iron sedimentation process started over with a new sequence of layers. The bottom layer deposited always metamorphized into pure chert over geologic time. Every kind of banded iron formation sequence from 4000-2000 million years ago begins with a pure chert layer on the bottom. Even the very oldest "microbanded" banded iron formations, nearly 4000 million years old, have a pure chert layer on the bottom of each band sequence. Although the "sequence" only has two kinds of bands, one of which is pure chert, in alternating layers, over and over and over. When hydrogen is available, the very most productive kind of photosynthesis a bacteria can perform is to take in hydrogen as reductant to feed into an anoxygenic photosystem. No oxygen is produced, and the bacteria gets a LOT of bang for the buck from the sunlight. No solar energy wasted just to tear apart water molecules and throw off oxygen as a waste product. The organic matter deposited on the sea floor during this time could pile up with virtually no oxidants around that could be used to decompose it. Over geologic time, such a pure organic matter layer has all of its organic carbon replaced by silica, like petrified wood. A pure chert layer in the banded iron formation. Hydrogen floats off into space, so the hydrogen gravy train is a short lived ride. Without more vulcanism spewing it out, the hydrogen in the atmosphere diminishes to nothing, and the photosynthetic bacteria who depended on it starve. Hydrogen sulfide doesn't float off to space and even gets recycled in sea water via oxidation reduction reactions. Long after all the hydrogen is depleted, there is still plenty of hydrogen sulfide around. This allows a new community of anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria to come in and take over when the hydrogen runs out. Hydrogen sulfide can be fed into photsynthesis as a reductant by bacteria who don't waste any solar energy making oxygen. Hydrogen sulfide was there the whole time, but these guys couldn't compete while hydrogen was still around. They just didn't get as much bang for the buck from the sunlight. And they produced an OXIDANT in the process. Sulfate is the oxidized waste product of anoxygenic photosynthesis using hydrogen sulfide as reductant. That sulfate changed seafloor chemistry. The pure organic matter layer on the sea floor wasn't pure anymore. Sulfate reducing bacteria were using the product of photosynthesis as a terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon to acquire metabolic energy. Sulfate reduction generated iron sulfide, pyrite among the organic matter on the sea floor. With the H2S based photosynthetic bacteria dominating the surface, the sea floor accumulated a mix of organic carbon and iron pyrite. Which fossilizes into a different kind of banded iron formation layer. The buried marine sediment layer of pure organic matter, deposited during the time right after the Earth spewed out a lot more hydrogen, fossilizes into pure chert as all organic carbon is replaced by silica. The buried marine sediment layer of organic matter mixed with iron pyrite, deposited during the time when that fresh geologic hydrogen was depleted but hydrogen sulfide remained in abundance, fossilizes into iron-laced chert. The sulfur in the iron pyrite has been replaced by silica, but some iron remains. In the most ancient "microbanded" of these formations, just these two fossil layers are found - pure chert and iron-laced chert. Very thin bands of each rock type alternate in formations thousands of layers thick. Back when the OLDEST banded iron formations were deposited nearly 4000 million years, the Earth's crust was thin and flexible, with a constant rhythm of vulcanism. Like the Old Faithful geyser at Yellowstone, the periodic bursts of reductant rich hydothermal steam, loaded with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide gas, occurred on a regular schedule you could practically set your clock to. The spacing between the layers in the "microbanded" banded iron formations is so consistent, they were once called "annual varves" because they thought each layer represented one year of deposition in an annual cycle. The spacing between layers in the "younger" banded iron formation, deposited less than 3000 million years ago, is anything but consistent. Quite the opposite of "micro" banding, very thick layers of high grade iron ore sit on the top of each sequence. The chert layer at the bottom of each sequence is very thin by comparison. As the Earth's crust thickened and hardened, widespread massive vulcanism became less and less frequent. By 2500 million years ago, about the only thing that could set off that kind of vulcanism would be a massive asteroid strike. And the asteroids kept coming now and then. With each major asteroid strike, the Earth filled the atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide to use as reductants for anoxygenic photosynthesis. The photosynthesizers who could use hydrogen had a huge competitive advantage and dominated. Laying down pure organic matter to become chert. The hydrogen ran out eventually, but H2S supported the next community of photosynthetic bacteria to dominate. Laying down organic matter mixed with pyrite to become iron-laced chert. And that was as far as the MICRObanded formations ever got. More hydrogen got resupplied before the hydrogen sulfide ever ran out. It never went beyond just those two kinds of anoxygenic photosynthetic communities. But in the "Superior" type banded iron formations, named after the lake near the massive iron ore deposits, most of the layers formed after the hydrogen sulfide ran out. It was going to be a LONG time before another big asteroid would hit. Photosynthesis would just have to go on without any hydrogen or hydrogen sulfide. And OXYgenic photosynthesis provided oxygen to rust the ferrous iron in the sea. Oxygenic photosynthetic bacteria, such as cyanobacteria, cannot compete if there is hydrogen or hydrogen sulfide available to their more competent competitors. They waste too much solar energy splitting water molecules, with oxygen as the waste product. They don't get much bang for the buck from sunlight, compared to anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria. When oxygenic photosynthesis dominated, ferrous iron got oxidized using the powerful terminal electron acceptor provided by photosynthesis. The sea was full of ferrous iron. It would take HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of years of more and more oxygen being added before it would all rust away. |
13-04-2025 01:38 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Two competing photosynthetic organisms both oxidizing the ferrous iron The ancient banded iron formations tell a story of photosynthetic community succession. The iron ore deposits in the banded iron formation tell a story of two different photosynthetic organisms both causing iron oxidation by entirely different mechanisms. To this day, there are places where an oxygenic photosynthetic community lives adjacent to an anoxygenic photosynthetic community that oxidizes iron. Indeed, the presence today of these surviving descendants is the only reason we know for sure that there ever were photosynthetic bacteria that oxidize iron and do not produce oxygen. The use ferrous iron(II) as a weak reductant to feed into anoxygenic photosynthesis. The oxidized waste product is ferric iron(III). These guys get a pretty descent bang for the buck from sunlight. They can and do live in the shade of another photosynthetic community. They HAVE to live in the shade because there isn't enough ferrous iron(II) in the water of the high light zone to support their kind of photosynthesis. Ferrous iron comes up from the earth at hydrothermal vents where the iron oxidizing anoxygenic photo synthetic can find enough of it to support them. Higher in the water, the presence of oxygen enables iron oxidizing bacteria to aerobically oxidize the ferrous iron(II) to ferric iron(III). Ferric iron rains down on the sea floor. Some of it generated by the photosynthetic bacteria in the shade, oxidizing the iron as they use it for photosynthesis. Most of it is generated by the iron oxidizing bacteria above them, using oxygen to oxidize the iron. Getting their oxygen from the oxygenic photosynthetic community at the surface. To this day in those microsites of iron rich thermal vents, we see that ferric iron can be laid down on the sea floor thanks to the products of two completely different kinds of photosynthesis. So, back in the day, 2500 million years or so ago, this happened on an ocean wide level. Not just a few microsites of hydrothermal vents. The entire sea was a rich solution of ferrous iron(II). Even where the oxygen of photosynthesis was rusting the ferrous iron in the high light zone where the cyanobacteria dominated, iron-based anoxygenic photosynthesis was generating ferric iron in the shade below them. Those massive deposits of high grade iron ore formed from two different photosynthetic communities, one above the other. One made oxygen that was used by others to oxidize the iron. The other oxidized ferrous iron as part of its anoxygenic photosynthesis. Final note on their competition. Anywhere they could get ferrous iron, the iron based photosynthesis had a strong competitive advantage. They could get more bang for the buck from sunlight than cyanobacteria and easily outgrow them. They were only stuck in the shade because the oxygen was burning up the ferrous iron they needed in the high light zone. The cyanobacteria were sabotaging the food supply for their competitors by putting oxygen in the water. It didn't matter if they grew more slowly, because they wouldn't HAVE to compete. Without enough ferrous iron in the water, the iron based photosynthesizers didn't have a chance. Perhaps they even drove them out this way. Burning up the ferrous iron around their margins to starve out the competition and move into their territory. What I need to do next is double check the banded iron formation papers. Is it possible that the PUREST iron ore is at the BOTTOM of the iron layers? At one point in the sequence, hydrogen sulfide was depleted, and iron based photosynthetic bacteria finally had a shot at the high light zone. Nobody was making oxygen yet. Ferrous iron was not limiting in the high light zone. At that point, generation of SULFATE by sulfur-based anoxygenic photosynthesis had ceased because the hydrogen sulfide ran out. As the iron-based photosynthesizers rained ferric iron down from the surface, there wasn' t much sulfate available to make pyrite on the sea floor. It would have been a layer of pure organic matter and ferric iron without pyrite on the seafloor. Once the cyanobacteria started making oxygen they could take over the high light zone. But their oxygen would have also enabled oxidation of any sulfide around by aerobic sulfur oxidizing bacteria, to supply sulfate. It should mean there was more pyrite in the sea floor after the cyanobacteria moved in to dominance of the high light zone. I haven' t looked at those papers in 15 years. |
13-04-2025 02:30 | |
Swan![]() (6496) |
Im a BM wrote: Yup, you are having a blast being retarded. IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD. According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND. ULTRA MAGA "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic? ![]() Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy ![]() Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL |
RE: SIX KINDS OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS 6 different reductants and 6 different oxidized waste products13-04-2025 05:09 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
SIX KINDS OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS - Six different reductants and six different oxidized waste products 1. Hydrogen based photosynthesis Reduced hydrogen, H2 is taken in as reductant. Water, H2O, is the oxidized hydrogen waste product of photosynthesis. 2. Sulfur based photosynthesis Reduced sulfur (H2S, methionate, etc) is taken in as reductant. Sulfate, SO4(2-) is the oxidized sulfur waste product of photosynthesis 3. Arsenic based photosynthesis Reduced arsenic, As(III) arsenite is taken in as reductant. Arsenic(V) arsenate is the oxidized arsenic waste product of photosynthesis. 4. Iron based photosynthesis Reduced iron, ferrous iron(II) us taken in as reductant. Ferric iron(III) is the oxidized iron waste product of photosynthesis. 5. Nitrogen based photosynthesis Reduced nitrogen, nitrite, NO2- is taken in as reductant. Nitrate, NO3- is the oxidized nitrogen waste product of photosynthesis. 6. Oxygen based photosynthesis Reduced oxygen, water, H2O is taken is as reductant. Oxygen gas, O2 is the oxidized oxygen waste product of photosynthesis. The rank order from 1 to 6 goes from strongest to weakest reductant. Hydrogen based photosynthesis has the strongest reductant, H2, and the most productive photosynthesis. Oxygen based photosynthesis has the weakest reductant, H2O, and the least productive photosynthesis. The rank order from 1 to 6 goes from the weakest to strongest oxidant produced as waste product of photosynthesis. The rank order from 1 to 6 is the predictable sequence of photosynthetic community succession as stronger reductants are depleted, shifting the competitive advantage to photosynthetic bacteria that can use weaker reductants to be oxidized in photosynthesis. Hydrogen based photosynthesis generates the weakest oxidant, H2O, as oxidized waste product. Oxidized hydrogen, also known as water, is not used as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon or anything else. Oxygen based photosynthesis generates the strongest oxidant, O2, as oxidized waste product. Oxidized oxygen, also known as oxygen gas or O2, is used as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon, or anything else, for highest energy yield. |
13-04-2025 13:24 | |
Swan![]() (6496) |
Im a BM wrote: All photosynthesis is sunlight based. Now grow up and stop babbling that you are a retarded fed IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD. According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND. ULTRA MAGA "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic? ![]() Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy ![]() Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL |
13-04-2025 18:48 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
SIX KINDS OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS - Six different reductants and six different oxidized waste products 1. Hydrogen based photosynthesis Reduced hydrogen, H2 is taken in as reductant. Water, H2O, is the oxidized hydrogen waste product of photosynthesis. 2. Sulfur based photosynthesis Reduced sulfur (H2S, methionate, etc) is taken in as reductant. Sulfate, SO4(2-) is the oxidized sulfur waste product of photosynthesis 3. Arsenic based photosynthesis Reduced arsenic, As(III) arsenite is taken in as reductant. Arsenic(V) arsenate is the oxidized arsenic waste product of photosynthesis. 4. Iron based photosynthesis Reduced iron, ferrous iron(II) us taken in as reductant. Ferric iron(III) is the oxidized iron waste product of photosynthesis. 5. Nitrogen based photosynthesis Reduced nitrogen, nitrite, NO2- is taken in as reductant. Nitrate, NO3- is the oxidized nitrogen waste product of photosynthesis. 6. Oxygen based photosynthesis Reduced oxygen, water, H2O is taken is as reductant. Oxygen gas, O2 is the oxidized oxygen waste product of photosynthesis. The rank order from 1 to 6 goes from strongest to weakest reductant. Hydrogen based photosynthesis has the strongest reductant, H2, and the most productive photosynthesis. Oxygen based photosynthesis has the weakest reductant, H2O, and the least productive photosynthesis. The rank order from 1 to 6 goes from the weakest to strongest oxidant produced as waste product of photosynthesis. The rank order from 1 to 6 is the predictable sequence of photosynthetic community succession as stronger reductants are depleted, shifting the competitive advantage to photosynthetic bacteria that can use weaker reductants to be oxidized in photosynthesis. Hydrogen based photosynthesis generates the weakest oxidant, H2O, as oxidized waste product. Oxidized hydrogen, also known as water, is not used as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon or anything else. Oxygen based photosynthesis generates the strongest oxidant, O2, as oxidized waste product. Oxidized oxygen, also known as oxygen gas or O2, is used as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon, or anything else, for highest energy yield. [/quote] All photosynthesis is sunlight based. Now grow up and stop babbling that you are a retarded fed[/quote] As always, your brilliant scientific insights are appreciated. This highly relevant point raises a question. Indoor grow lights do not make sunlight. I guess its not photosynthesis because it is not "sunlight based". Perhaps Swan has other insights to share about the different terminal electron acceptors generated by the different kinds of photosynthesis. He'll be sharing them regardless of whether anyone else likes it or not. It is EASY to scroll past Swan posts. The American flag being defiled to the left of the screen is more of a red flag to beware of conspiracy rabbit holes. The foot long signature at the bottom of every Swan post also makes it very easy to scroll right past them. The twelve inches of signature repeated at the bottom of EVERY Swan post makes it as easy to scroll past them as it makes them unattractive to view. Edited on 13-04-2025 18:51 |
13-04-2025 20:08 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Paleobiogeochemistry, Anoxygenic Photosynthesis, and Banded Iron Formations Episodic vulcanism filled the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. While hydrogen was available, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community, and deposited pure organic matter on the sea floor. This organic matter remained unblemished because there were virtually no terminal electron acceptors (i.e. oxidants) that could be used to oxidize it for metabolic energy. When it fossilized, all the organic carbon was replaced by silica to become a layer of pure chert. EVERY banded iron formation from 2000-4000 million years begins with a layer of pure chert at the bottom. Hydrogen floats off to outer space. When the vulcanism ceased, the hydrogen diminished until there was none left to support anoxygenic photosynthesis. This is when the sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria take over. They use hydrogen sulfide as reductant for photosynthesis. They generated sulfate as the oxidized waste product. Sulfate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor by sulfate reducing bacteria to oxidize organic carbon in the sea floor. This generate ferrous sulfide or iron pyrite. This iron pyrite was mixed in with the organic matter that accumulated on the sea floor during the time sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community. Organic matter mixed with iron pyrite fossilizes into iron-laced chert. All the organic carbon and nearly all the sulfur have been replaced with silica. The layer just above the bottom layer of chert in banded iron formations is always iron laced chert. When the hydrogen sulfide finally ran out, after enough time without vulcanism, the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria finally had their chance to dominate the photosynthetic community. Iron based photosynthesis uses ferrous iron(II) as reductant for photosynthesis. It generates ferric iron(III) as the oxidized waste product. Ferric iron(III) is insoluble in sea water, so it rained down on the sea floor while the iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis dominated. They laid down organic matter and ferric iron(III) on the sea floor. They did not form any iron pyrite because the sulfur based photosynthetic community was gone and no longer generating sulfate for pyrite formation. This layer of organic carbon and ferric iron(III) fossilized into iron ore. And those are just the first three layers. Follow up later with what happens when community succession moves on to have oxygenic cyanobacteria as the dominant photosynthetic community in the high light zone. Putting oxygen in the sea water certainly influence the chemistry of the sediments. At any time this succession can get reset. Another big asteroid can crash, filling the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. Starting the banded iron formation sequence all over again. And it would take a VERY long time before all the ferrous iron(II) was finally going to be depleted from the ocean. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SO, WHAT ELSE IS NEW? ???????????????????????????????????????????? What is new and different about this model, compared to all the other theories about banded iron formation? The INTRACELLULAR PHOTOOXIDATION hypothesis as the origin of photosynthesis. Photosynthesis takes in reductants and via intracellular photooxidation generates oxidized waste products (oxygen, nitrate, ferric iron, arsenate, sulfate, or water). Originally evolved because no terminal electron acceptors were available in the water to allow them to exploit the hydrogen. The EXPANDING PHOTOSYSTEM OXIDATION CAPACITY hypothesis. As the first photosynthetic bacteria competed to exploit the hydrogen in the low light zone, it expanded its light harvesting apparatus to be able to use light of longer wavelengths then the low end ultraviolet it first used for intracellular photooxidation. The same expansions of its light harvesting apparatus that enabled it to use high energy reductants in low light would later allow them to use low energy reductants in high light. The RHYTHMICALLY VIBRATING CRUST hypothesis as the reason for such consistent spacing in the ancient "microbanded" banded iron formations. 4000 million years ago, the Earth's crust was thin and flexible, belching out steam and gas on a regular schedule. Like the Old Faithful geyser at Yellowstone, the earth belched out hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide in hydrothermal steam on a schedule so consistent you could set your clock to it. The SEQUENTIAL REDUCTANT DEPLETION hypothesis as the explanation for the environmental change that caused photosynthetic community succession. As hydrogen gas from the latest eruption floated off to space and diminished in the atmosphere, it became the first reductant in the sequence to be depleted, starving the existing photosynthetic community and opening the field for the next one to move in, using the next strongest reductant. The PHOTOSYNTHETIC COMMUNITY SUCCESSION hypothesis as the explanation for the consistent sequencing of the bands in banded iron formation. The first community in the succession, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthesis, laid down pure organic matter on the sea floor which fossilized into pure chert. At the bottom of EVERY banded iron formation sequence deposited between 4000 and 2000 million years ago. Up to six photosynthetic communities using up to six different elements as reductants for photosynthesis (H, S, As, Fe, N, and O) left up to six different chemically unique sediment layers in a repeating sequence. The SYMBIOTIC ALLELOPATHIC OXIDATION hypothesis as the explanation for the ability of cyanobacteria to extablish a narrow exclusion zone near the surface, despite the ubiquitous presence of ferrous iron(II) in the water beneath. Cyanobacteria partnered with an iron oxidizing bacteria to help it starve out its faster growing competitors. Allowing the iron oxidizing bacteria exclusive access to the oxidized oxygen waste product of its photosynthesis. They could deplete the ferrous iron in the immediate high light vicinity and create a narrow exclusion zone where only cyanobacteria could compete. Iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria would just have to grow in the shade beneath them. As they still do today where both kinds of photosynthetic bacteria still compete. Do not "cite" me for this public domain presentation of food for thought. If you REALLY have to, tell me "thanks" in the "Acknowledgements". You're welcome! Edited on 13-04-2025 20:37 |
13-04-2025 21:44 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Paleobiogeochemistry, Anoxygenic Photosynthesis, and Banded Iron Formations Episodic vulcanism filled the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. While hydrogen was available, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community, and deposited pure organic matter on the sea floor. This organic matter remained unblemished because there were virtually no terminal electron acceptors (i.e. oxidants) that could be used to oxidize it for metabolic energy. When it fossilized, all the organic carbon was replaced by silica to become a layer of pure chert. EVERY banded iron formation from 2000-4000 million years begins with a layer of pure chert at the bottom. Hydrogen floats off to outer space. When the vulcanism ceased, the hydrogen diminished until there was none left to support anoxygenic photosynthesis. This is when the sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria take over. They use hydrogen sulfide as reductant for photosynthesis. They generated sulfate as the oxidized waste product. Sulfate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor by sulfate reducing bacteria to oxidize organic carbon in the sea floor. This generate ferrous sulfide or iron pyrite. This iron pyrite was mixed in with the organic matter that accumulated on the sea floor during the time sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community. Organic matter mixed with iron pyrite fossilizes into iron-laced chert. All the organic carbon and nearly all the sulfur have been replaced with silica. The layer just above the bottom layer of chert in banded iron formations is always iron laced chert. When the hydrogen sulfide finally ran out, after enough time without vulcanism, the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria finally had their chance to dominate the photosynthetic community. Iron based photosynthesis uses ferrous iron(II) as reductant for photosynthesis. It generates ferric iron(III) as the oxidized waste product. Ferric iron(III) is insoluble in sea water, so it rained down on the sea floor while the iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis dominated. They laid down organic matter and ferric iron(III) on the sea floor. They did not form any iron pyrite because the sulfur based photosynthetic community was gone and no longer generating sulfate for pyrite formation. This layer of organic carbon and ferric iron(III) fossilized into iron ore. And those are just the first three layers. Follow up later with what happens when community succession moves on to have oxygenic cyanobacteria as the dominant photosynthetic community in the high light zone. Putting oxygen in the sea water certainly influence the chemistry of the sediments. At any time this succession can get reset. Another big asteroid can crash, filling the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. Starting the banded iron formation sequence all over again. And it would take a VERY long time before all the ferrous iron(II) was finally going to be depleted from the ocean. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SO, WHAT ELSE IS NEW? ???????????????????????????????????????????? What is new and different about this model, compared to all the other theories about banded iron formation? The INTRACELLULAR PHOTOOXIDATION hypothesis as the origin of photosynthesis. Photosynthesis takes in reductants and via intracellular photooxidation generates oxidized waste products (oxygen, nitrate, ferric iron, arsenate, sulfate, or water). Originally evolved because no terminal electron acceptors were available in the water to allow them to exploit the hydrogen. The EXPANDING PHOTOSYSTEM OXIDATION CAPACITY hypothesis. As the first photosynthetic bacteria competed to exploit the hydrogen in the low light zone, it expanded its light harvesting apparatus to be able to use light of longer wavelengths then the low end ultraviolet it first used for intracellular photooxidation. The same expansions of its light harvesting apparatus that enabled it to use high energy reductants in low light would later allow them to use low energy reductants in high light. The RHYTHMICALLY VIBRATING CRUST hypothesis as the reason for such consistent spacing in the ancient "microbanded" banded iron formations. 4000 million years ago, the Earth's crust was thin and flexible, belching out steam and gas on a regular schedule. Like the Old Faithful geyser at Yellowstone, the earth belched out hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide in hydrothermal steam on a schedule so consistent you could set your clock to it. The SEQUENTIAL REDUCTANT DEPLETION hypothesis as the explanation for the environmental change that caused photosynthetic community succession. As hydrogen gas from the latest eruption floated off to space and diminished in the atmosphere, it became the first reductant in the sequence to be depleted, starving the existing photosynthetic community and opening the field for the next one to move in, using the next strongest reductant. The PHOTOSYNTHETIC COMMUNITY SUCCESSION hypothesis as the explanation for the consistent sequencing of the bands in banded iron formation. The first community in the succession, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthesis, laid down pure organic matter on the sea floor which fossilized into pure chert. At the bottom of EVERY banded iron formation sequence deposited between 4000 and 2000 million years ago. Up to six photosynthetic communities using up to six different elements as reductants for photosynthesis (H, S, As, Fe, N, and O) left up to six different chemically unique sediment layers in a repeating sequence. The SYMBIOTIC ALLELOPATHIC OXIDATION hypothesis as the explanation for the ability of cyanobacteria to extablish a narrow exclusion zone near the surface, despite the ubiquitous presence of ferrous iron(II) in the water beneath. Cyanobacteria partnered with an iron oxidizing bacteria to help it starve out its faster growing competitors. Allowing the iron oxidizing bacteria exclusive access to the oxidized oxygen waste product of its photosynthesis. They could deplete the ferrous iron in the immediate high light vicinity and create a narrow exclusion zone where only cyanobacteria could compete. Iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria would just have to grow in the shade beneath them. As they still do today where both kinds of photosynthetic bacteria still compete. This symbiotic allelopathic oxidation enabled cyanobacteria to stay on top, literally, where the oxygen they put out facilitated the GREAT OXIDATION of the lifeless rocks above sea level. Meanwhile, too much ferrous iron in the underlying sea water, where the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic community STILL had it made in the shade, was never going to allow free oxygen to accumulate in the sea. The lifeless elements on land could be oxidized from what the cyanobacteria put in the atmosphere already. It would takes hundreds of millions of years longer before the ferrous iron in the sea was finally oxidized enough to allow free oxygen to support the Cambrian Explosion 540 million years ago, and then create the UV shielding ozone layer to enable colonization of the lifeless land above sea level, about 500 million years ago. Do not "cite" me for this public domain presentation of food for thought. If you REALLY have to, tell me "thanks" in the "Acknowledgements". You're welcome! Edited on 13-04-2025 21:55 |
13-04-2025 22:30 | |
Swan![]() (6496) |
Im a BM wrote: You copy and paste better than a three year old with downs syndrome IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD. According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND. ULTRA MAGA "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic? ![]() Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy ![]() Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL |
13-04-2025 22:47 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
plus new edit regarding sea floor carbonate Paleobiogeochemistry, Anoxygenic Photosynthesis, and Banded Iron Formations Episodic vulcanism filled the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. While hydrogen was available, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community, and deposited pure organic matter on the sea floor. This organic matter remained unblemished because there were virtually no terminal electron acceptors (i.e. oxidants) that could be used to oxidize it for metabolic energy. When it fossilized, all the organic carbon was replaced by silica to become a layer of pure chert. EVERY banded iron formation from 2000-4000 million years begins with a layer of pure chert at the bottom. Hydrogen floats off to outer space. When the vulcanism ceased, the hydrogen diminished until there was none left to support anoxygenic photosynthesis. This is when the sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria take over. They use hydrogen sulfide as reductant for photosynthesis. They generated sulfate as the oxidized waste product. Sulfate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor by sulfate reducing bacteria to oxidize organic carbon in the sea floor. This generate ferrous sulfide or iron pyrite. This iron pyrite was mixed in with the organic matter that accumulated on the sea floor during the time sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community. Organic matter mixed with iron pyrite fossilizes into iron-laced chert. All the organic carbon and nearly all the sulfur have been replaced with silica. The layer just above the bottom layer of chert in banded iron formations is always iron laced chert. AND I FORGOT TO MENTION CARBONATE Sulfate reduction enables bacteria to oxidize organic carbon, but the oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is NOT CARBON DIOXIDE. Sulfate reduction transforms organic carbon into CARBONATE. Take THAT and fossilize it! EVERY sediment layer under every photosynthetic community in which organic carbon was being oxidized by a terminal electron acceptor other than oxygen transformed organic carbon into carbonate.Sulfur reduction, iron reduction, arsenic reduction, and nitrate reduction would ALL put carbonate in the seafloor if they occurred. When the hydrogen sulfide finally ran out, after enough time without vulcanism, the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria finally had their chance to dominate the photosynthetic community. Iron based photosynthesis uses ferrous iron(II) as reductant for photosynthesis. It generates ferric iron(III) as the oxidized waste product. Ferric iron(III) is insoluble in sea water, so it rained down on the sea floor while the iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis dominated. They laid down organic matter and ferric iron(III) on the sea floor. They did not form any iron pyrite because the sulfur based photosynthetic community was gone and no longer generating sulfate for pyrite formation. No pyrite, but iron reduction DOES transform sea floor organic carbon into CARBONATE. This layer of organic carbon, ferric iron(III), and CARBONATE fossilized into iron ore. And those are just the first three layers. Follow up later with what happens when community succession moves on to have oxygenic cyanobacteria as the dominant photosynthetic community in the high light zone. Putting oxygen in the sea water certainly influence the chemistry of the sediments. At any time this succession can get reset. Another big asteroid can crash, filling the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. Starting the banded iron formation sequence all over again. And it would take a VERY long time before all the ferrous iron(II) was finally going to be depleted from the ocean. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SO, WHAT ELSE IS NEW? ???????????????????????????????????????????? What is new and different about this model, compared to all the other theories about banded iron formation? The INTRACELLULAR PHOTOOXIDATION hypothesis as the origin of photosynthesis. Photosynthesis takes in reductants and via intracellular photooxidation generates oxidized waste products (oxygen, nitrate, ferric iron, arsenate, sulfate, or water). Originally evolved because no terminal electron acceptors were available in the water to allow them to exploit the hydrogen. The EXPANDING PHOTOSYSTEM OXIDATION CAPACITY hypothesis. As the first photosynthetic bacteria competed to exploit the hydrogen in the low light zone, it expanded its light harvesting apparatus to be able to use light of longer wavelengths then the low end ultraviolet it first used for intracellular photooxidation. The same expansions of its light harvesting apparatus that enabled it to use high energy reductants in low light would later allow them to use low energy reductants in high light. The RHYTHMICALLY VIBRATING CRUST hypothesis as the reason for such consistent spacing in the ancient "microbanded" banded iron formations. 4000 million years ago, the Earth's crust was thin and flexible, belching out steam and gas on a regular schedule. Like the Old Faithful geyser at Yellowstone, the earth belched out hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide in hydrothermal steam on a schedule so consistent you could set your clock to it. The SEQUENTIAL REDUCTANT DEPLETION hypothesis as the explanation for the environmental change that caused photosynthetic community succession. As hydrogen gas from the latest eruption floated off to space and diminished in the atmosphere, it became the first reductant in the sequence to be depleted, starving the existing photosynthetic community and opening the field for the next one to move in, using the next strongest reductant. The PHOTOSYNTHETIC COMMUNITY SUCCESSION hypothesis as the explanation for the consistent sequencing of the bands in banded iron formation. The first community in the succession, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthesis, laid down pure organic matter on the sea floor which fossilized into pure chert. At the bottom of EVERY banded iron formation sequence deposited between 4000 and 2000 million years ago. Up to six photosynthetic communities using up to six different elements as reductants for photosynthesis (H, S, As, Fe, N, and O) left up to six different chemically unique sediment layers in a repeating sequence. The SYMBIOTIC ALLELOPATHIC OXIDATION hypothesis as the explanation for the ability of cyanobacteria to extablish a narrow exclusion zone near the surface, despite the ubiquitous presence of ferrous iron(II) in the water beneath. Cyanobacteria partnered with an iron oxidizing bacteria to help it starve out its faster growing competitors. Allowing the iron oxidizing bacteria exclusive access to the oxidized oxygen waste product of its photosynthesis. They could deplete the ferrous iron in the immediate high light vicinity and create a narrow exclusion zone where only cyanobacteria could compete. Iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria would just have to grow in the shade beneath them. As they still do today where both kinds of photosynthetic bacteria still compete. This symbiotic allelopathic oxidation enabled cyanobacteria to stay on top, literally, where the oxygen they put out facilitated the GREAT OXIDATION of the lifeless rocks above sea level. Meanwhile, too much ferrous iron in the underlying sea water, where the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic community STILL had it made in the shade, was never going to allow free oxygen to accumulate in the sea. The lifeless elements on land could be oxidized from what the cyanobacteria put in the atmosphere already. It would takes hundreds of millions of years longer before the ferrous iron in the sea was finally oxidized enough to allow free oxygen to support the Cambrian Explosion 540 million years ago, and then create the UV shielding ozone layer to enable colonization of the lifeless land above sea level, about 500 million years ago. Do not "cite" me for this public domain presentation of food for thought. If you REALLY have to, tell me "thanks" in the "Acknowledgements". You're welcome! Edited on 13-04-2025 23:01 |
13-04-2025 23:11 | |
Into the Night![]() (23051) |
Im a BM wrote: Carbonate is not a chemical. Im a BM wrote: Carbonate is not iron. Im a BM wrote: Carbonate is not a chemical. Im a BM wrote: Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Carbonate is not a chemical. A fossils it not a chemical. Im a BM wrote: Photosynthetic is not a community. Carbon is not organic. Terminal electron acceptor is not a chemical .Sulfate is not a chemical. Iron is not reduceable. Arsennic is not reduceable. Nitrate is not a chemical. Carbonate is not a chemical. Im a BM wrote: Anoxygenic is not a word. Photosynthetic is not a community. Iron is not involved in photosynthesis. Iron is not organic. Sulfur is not involved in photosynthesis. Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Ore is not a fossil. Im a BM wrote: Not a hypothesis. Nitrate is not a chemical. Iron is not involved in photosynthesis. Sulfate is not a chemical. Water is broken up during photosynthesis. Arsenate is not a chemical. Terminal electron acceptors is not a chemical. Im a BM wrote: Not a hypothesis. Low light zone is not a container. High light is not a container. Im a BM wrote: Not a hypothesis. A nonscientific theory. Im a BM wrote: You can't set your clock to it. It will be off by up to 2 hours. Im a BM wrote: Not a hypothesis. Environment cannot change. Photosynthetic is not a community nor a 'succession'. Im a BM wrote: Hydrogen cannot escape Earth's gravity. You cannot create energy out of nothing. Hydrogen is not depleted. Photosynthetic is not a community. Im a BM wrote: Not a hypothesis. Religion. Photosynthetic is not a community. Neither sulfur, arsenic, iron, or nitrogen is involved in photosynthesis. Im a BM wrote: Oxygen isn't rust. Anoxygenic is not a word. Im a BM wrote: The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
13-04-2025 23:16 | |
Into the Night![]() (23051) |
Im a BM wrote: Carbonate is not a chemical. Im a BM wrote: Carbonate is not iron. Im a BM wrote: Carbonate is not a chemical. Im a BM wrote: Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Carbonate is not a chemical. A fossils it not a chemical. Im a BM wrote: Photosynthetic is not a community. Carbon is not organic. Terminal electron acceptor is not a chemical .Sulfate is not a chemical. Iron is not reduceable. Arsennic is not reduceable. Nitrate is not a chemical. Carbonate is not a chemical. Im a BM wrote: Anoxygenic is not a word. Photosynthetic is not a community. Iron is not involved in photosynthesis. Iron is not organic. Sulfur is not involved in photosynthesis. Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Ore is not a fossil. Im a BM wrote: Not a hypothesis. Nitrate is not a chemical. Iron is not involved in photosynthesis. Sulfate is not a chemical. Water is broken up during photosynthesis. Arsenate is not a chemical. Terminal electron acceptors is not a chemical. Im a BM wrote: Not a hypothesis. Low light zone is not a container. High light is not a container. Im a BM wrote: Not a hypothesis. A nonscientific theory. Im a BM wrote: You can't set your clock to it. It will be off by up to 2 hours. Im a BM wrote: Not a hypothesis. Environment cannot change. Photosynthetic is not a community nor a 'succession'. Im a BM wrote: Hydrogen cannot escape Earth's gravity. You cannot create energy out of nothing. Hydrogen is not depleted. Photosynthetic is not a community. Im a BM wrote: Not a hypothesis. Religion. Photosynthetic is not a community. Neither sulfur, arsenic, iron, or nitrogen is involved in photosynthesis. Im a BM wrote: Oxygen isn't rust. Anoxygenic is not a word. Im a BM wrote: Allelopathic is not a word. Anoxygenic is not a word. Photosynthetic is not a community. Im a BM wrote: Cambrian is not an explosion. You don't know what happened 500 million years ago. Im a BM wrote: Does quoting count? [b]Im a BM wrote: Nah. I'll just continue to point out your buzzwords and BS. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan Edited on 13-04-2025 23:16 |
14-04-2025 00:13 | |
Swan![]() (6496) |
Into the Night wrote:Im a BM wrote: So did Americas finest blow away and autistic retards yet today? IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD. According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND. ULTRA MAGA "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic? ![]() Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy ![]() Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL |
14-04-2025 00:25 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Swan wrote:Into the Night wrote:Im a BM wrote: Swan, you have an opportunity with this thread to apply the cut-and-paste skills you so masterfully display at this website. With this thread, you could cut and paste your way to a Nobel Prize. I kid you not! |
14-04-2025 00:57 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
and plus new edit again to account for sulfur photosynthesis having it made in the shade, plus new edit regarding sea floor carbonate Paleobiogeochemistry, Anoxygenic Photosynthesis, and Banded Iron Formations Episodic vulcanism filled the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. While hydrogen was available, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community, and deposited pure organic matter on the sea floor. This organic matter remained unblemished because there were virtually no terminal electron acceptors (i.e. oxidants) that could be used to oxidize it for metabolic energy. When it fossilized, all the organic carbon was replaced by silica to become a layer of pure chert. EVERY banded iron formation from 2000-4000 million years begins with a layer of pure chert at the bottom. Hydrogen floats off to outer space. When the vulcanism ceased, the hydrogen diminished until there was none left to support anoxygenic photosynthesis. This is when the sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria take over. They use hydrogen sulfide as reductant for photosynthesis. They generated sulfate as the oxidized waste product. Sulfate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor by sulfate reducing bacteria to oxidize organic carbon in the sea floor. This generate ferrous sulfide or iron pyrite. This iron pyrite was mixed in with the organic matter that accumulated on the sea floor during the time sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community. Organic matter mixed with iron pyrite fossilizes into iron-laced chert. All the organic carbon and nearly all the sulfur have been replaced with silica. The layer just above the bottom layer of chert in banded iron formations is always iron laced chert. AND I FORGOT TO MENTION CARBONATE Sulfate reduction enables bacteria to oxidize organic carbon, but the oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is NOT CARBON DIOXIDE. Sulfate reduction transforms organic carbon into CARBONATE. Take THAT and fossilize it! EVERY sediment layer under every photosynthetic community in which organic carbon was being oxidized by a terminal electron acceptor other than oxygen transformed organic carbon into carbonate.Sulfur reduction, iron reduction, arsenic reduction, and nitrate reduction would ALL put carbonate in the seafloor if they occurred. When the hydrogen sulfide finally ran out, after enough time without vulcanism, the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria finally had their chance to dominate the photosynthetic community. Iron based photosynthesis uses ferrous iron(II) as reductant for photosynthesis. It generates ferric iron(III) as the oxidized waste product. Ferric iron(III) is insoluble in sea water, so it rained down on the sea floor while the iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis dominated. They laid down organic matter and ferric iron(III) on the sea floor. They did not form any iron pyrite because the sulfur based photosynthetic community was gone and no longer generating sulfate for pyrite formation. No pyrite, but iron reduction DOES transform sea floor organic carbon into CARBONATE. This layer of organic carbon, ferric iron(III), and CARBONATE fossilized into iron ore. And those are just the first three layers. Follow up later with what happens when community succession moves on to have oxygenic cyanobacteria as the dominant photosynthetic community in the high light zone. Putting oxygen in the sea water certainly influence the chemistry of the sediments. At any time this succession can get reset. Another big asteroid can crash, filling the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. Starting the banded iron formation sequence all over again. And it would take a VERY long time before all the ferrous iron(II) was finally going to be depleted from the ocean. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SO, WHAT ELSE IS NEW? ???????????????????????????????????????????? What is new and different about this model, compared to all the other theories about banded iron formation? The INTRACELLULAR PHOTOOXIDATION hypothesis as the origin of photosynthesis. Photosynthesis takes in reductants and via intracellular photooxidation generates oxidized waste products (oxygen, nitrate, ferric iron, arsenate, sulfate, or water). Originally evolved because no terminal electron acceptors were available in the water to allow them to exploit the hydrogen. The EXPANDING PHOTOSYSTEM OXIDATION CAPACITY hypothesis. As the first photosynthetic bacteria competed to exploit the hydrogen in the low light zone, it expanded its light harvesting apparatus to be able to use light of longer wavelengths then the low end ultraviolet it first used for intracellular photooxidation. The same expansions of its light harvesting apparatus that enabled it to use high energy reductants in low light would later allow them to use low energy reductants in high light. The RHYTHMICALLY VIBRATING CRUST hypothesis as the reason for such consistent spacing in the ancient "microbanded" banded iron formations. 4000 million years ago, the Earth's crust was thin and flexible, belching out steam and gas on a regular schedule. Like the Old Faithful geyser at Yellowstone, the earth belched out hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide in hydrothermal steam on a schedule so consistent you could set your clock to it. The SEQUENTIAL REDUCTANT DEPLETION hypothesis as the explanation for the environmental change that caused photosynthetic community succession. As hydrogen gas from the latest eruption floated off to space and diminished in the atmosphere, it became the first reductant in the sequence to be depleted, starving the existing photosynthetic community and opening the field for the next one to move in, using the next strongest reductant. The PHOTOSYNTHETIC COMMUNITY SUCCESSION hypothesis as the explanation for the consistent sequencing of the bands in banded iron formation. The first community in the succession, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthesis, laid down pure organic matter on the sea floor which fossilized into pure chert. At the bottom of EVERY banded iron formation sequence deposited between 4000 and 2000 million years ago. Up to six photosynthetic communities using up to six different elements as reductants for photosynthesis (H, S, As, Fe, N, and O) left up to six different chemically unique sediment layers in a repeating sequence. The SYMBIOTIC ALLELOPATHIC OXIDATION hypothesis as the explanation for the ability of cyanobacteria to extablish a narrow exclusion zone near the surface, despite the ubiquitous presence of ferrous iron(II) in the water beneath. Cyanobacteria partnered with an iron oxidizing bacteria to help it starve out its faster growing competitors. Allowing the iron oxidizing bacteria exclusive access to the oxidized oxygen waste product of its photosynthesis. They could deplete the ferrous iron in the immediate high light vicinity and create a narrow exclusion zone where only cyanobacteria could compete. Iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria would just have to grow in the shade beneath them. As they still do today where both kinds of photosynthetic bacteria still compete. This symbiotic allelopathic oxidation enabled cyanobacteria to stay on top, literally, where the oxygen they put out facilitated the GREAT OXIDATION of the lifeless rocks above sea level. Meanwhile, too much ferrous iron in the underlying sea water, where the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic community STILL had it made in the shade, was never going to allow free oxygen to accumulate in the sea. When the sea was full of hydrogen sulfide, iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis couldn't compete. Couldn't get as much bang for the buck from sunlight. So long as hydrogen sulfide was around, they could outcompete any iron based photosynthetic for light. Any light, dim or bright. To this day they grow in the shade of cyanobacteria, if there's enough sulfide coming into the water. Sulfur oxidizing bacteria, using the oxygen made by cyanobacteria, deplete the high light zone of sulfide. Sulfur photosynthetic bacteria can't grow right up where the oxygen is, but they can thrive in the shade beneath the cyanobacteria, TO THIS DAY. They did this on an ocean wide level back in the day. Only after all the H2S was gone could the IRON photosynthetic bacteria grow in the shade of the cyanobacteria. The lifeless elements on land could be oxidized from what the cyanobacteria put in the atmosphere already. It would takes hundreds of millions of years longer before the ferrous iron in the sea was finally oxidized enough to allow free oxygen to support the Cambrian Explosion 540 million years ago, and then create the UV shielding ozone layer to enable colonization of the lifeless land above sea level, about 500 million years ago. Do not "cite" me for this public domain presentation of food for thought. If you REALLY have to, tell me "thanks" in the "Acknowledgements". You're welcome! |
RE: Expansion of Light Harvesting Capacity of Photosystems14-04-2025 02:33 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Expansion of Light Harvesting Capacity of Photosystems. The first photosystem of the first anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria had only the most rudimentary light harvesting apparatus. Evolution would expand it considerably over time. The first photosynthetic bacteria took in hydrogen directly from the water around them. They didn't have to split water molecules apart to make it. They didn't need a photosystem that could generate enough voltage to tear up a water molecule into hydrogen and waste product oxygen. They had a high energy reductant already available to them for free. Problem was, there weren't many oxidants (i.e. terminal electron acceptors) around. So they found a way to use sunlight for photooxidation of something like manganese. Not manganese for one time use as oxidant or reductant. The photosystem generated the oxidant inside the cell and kept it there, recycling it via intracellular photooxidation. It didn't require an elaborate light harvesting apparatus to do it. There was probably enough low end UV they could safely use to oxidize the manganese atom from manganese(II) to manganese(IV) by photooxidation. It was good enough for the high light environment where it first evolved. Hydrogen, available for free in the water, was a strong enough reductant to make the whole thing work with a minimal light harvesting apparatus. But it only worked in the brightest light using UV. There was hydrogen deeper in the water where there wasn't enough UV for the photosystem to work. Not with that minimal light harvesting apparatus. To colonize zones with lower light intensity and exploit the abundant hydrogen supply, mutations would need to expand the light harvesting apparatus. And they did. Anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria were able to take advantage of the hydrogen in zones of dimmer light. Not even UV at all. Blue light. Red light. Each expansion enabled them to colonize dimmer environments. Now there is a broadly expanded photosystem evolved to be able to use a high energy reductant in a low light environment. Those same mutations would eventually enable photosystems to use low energy reductants in high light environments. When the Earth was getting pretty oxidized and photosynthesis got desperate for alternative reductants one of those elaborate light harvesters brought its night vision goggles up to the blinding surface light. It created enough voltage to use NITRITE as reductant to feed into anoxygenic photosynthesis, generating nitrate as the oxidized waste product. Later still, when the earth was even more depleted of reductants. That nitrite oxidizing photosystem expanded its voltage capacity to tear water apart and make hydrogen, along with oxidized waste product oxygen. |
RE: Iron REDUCING bacteria in the banded iron formation sediment mix14-04-2025 02:35 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Iron REDUCING bacteria in the banded iron formation sediment mix. During the long ages of banded iron formation sedimentation, there was ferric iron (III) raining down onto the sea floor much or most of the time. Given 2000 million years of such conditions, it is implausible that iron reducing bacteria were not part of the ecosystem. They likely evolved early in the process, at least 3000 million years ago. Iron reducing bacteria use ferric iron(III) as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon to acquire metabolic energy. In the sea floor sediment, they would have been reducing the iron back into soluble ferrous iron(II) dissolved in the sea water. Not all the ferric iron(III) falling to the sea floor ended up in a position to be reduced by an iron reducing bacteria. Some, perhaps most of it was occluded from reduction allowing it to pile up on the sea floor. But there was certainly a significant fraction of the ferric iron(III) generated at the surface and falling to the sea floor that was captured by iron reducing bacteria and transformed back to ferrous iron(II). Those iron reducers were there the whole time ferric iron was. |
RE: Arsenic Based Photosynthesis - Banded Iron Formation Missing Link?14-04-2025 02:36 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Arsenic Based Photosynthesis - Banded Iron Formation Missing Link? Among the many pathways of anoxygenic photosynthesis that evolved is one whose surviving descendants can be found near Mono Lake, California. Previous posts have described photosynthetic bacteria that feed reductants acquired from the environment into their photosystems, to be oxidized as a waste product. Hydrogen, hydrogen sulfide, ferrous iron(II) and nitrite are the ones mentioned so far. And the sulfur based photosynthetic bacteria evolved multiple pathways to use multiple forms of reduced sulfur, including organic forms. But the guys at Mono Lake are using ARSENIC as their reductant to be oxidized during photosynthesis. Before going further into the arsenic story, a related point about the most familiar form of photosynthesis. Plants use WATER as an extremely weak reductant to be oxidized during photosynthesis. And the oxidized waste product is oxygen, O2. In the water molecule, the oxygen atom was in chemically REDUCED form. Oxygen loves to grab electrons and hang onto them. The oxygen atoms in oxygen gas are OXIDIZED by comparison. They are desperate to get some more electrons. So, oxygen is the oxidized waste product of oxygenic photosynthesis. Back to arsenic. Reduced arsenic, arsenic(III) arsenite is AsO3(3-). In the presence of oxygen, arsenic oxidizing bacteria can make a living by aerobically oxidizing arsenic(III) arsenite to arsenic(V) arsenate, AsO4(3-) In the absence of oxygen, arsenic reducing bacteria can make a living using arsenic(V) arsenate as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon to acquire metabolic energy. This anaerobic decomposition reduces the arsenic back to arsenic(III) arsenite. Arsenic based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria feed arsenic(III) arsenite into their photosystem as reductant, generating arsenic(V) as the oxidized waste product of photosynthesis. There is a rank order among photosynthetic bacteria for who gets the most bang for the buck from the same amount of sunlight, depending on which reductant they are feeding into their photosystems. At the top of the heap are the photosynthetic bacteria that use HYDROGEN. If there is hydrogen around, it doesn't matter how much hydrogen sulfide, methionate, ferrous iron(II), arsenic(III) arsenite, or nitrite are available. The hydrogen based guys will always outcompete the others and dominate. At the BOTTOM of the heap are the photosynthetic bacteria that make OXYGEN. If there is any appreciable amount of ANY of the other reductants available, the oxygenic bacteria will always lose the competition and be over run.. They just waste too much solar energy making oxygen. They don't get much bang for the buck from same amount of sunlight. The other reductants used for photosynthesis are intermediate in rank order for who is more competitive when they are available. When the hydrogen is gone but hydrogen sulfide remains, the photosynthetic bacteria who can use hydrogen sulfide will dominate. It doesn't matter how much ferrous iron(II) or nitrite is around. Hydrogen sulfide gives them more bang for the buck, and they will always be the most competitive When the hydrogen sulfide runs out as well as the hydrogen all gone, it gets more complicated who would have been best able to dominate. Before the nitrite based photosynthesis could hope to be competitive, ALL other reductants would have to have been depleted. It ranks second lowest, above water, as the weakest reductant for the smallest bang for the buck. But is arsenic based photosynthesis a "missing" link in the banded iron formations. Are some of those intermediate layers the fingerprints of arsenic based anoxygenic photosynthesis? Fifteen years later, I picked up the books again on the subject. If it is true that arsenic(III) arsenite was an important reductant among those driving the photosynthetic community succession, there should have been a phase when oxidized arsenic was being generated by the photosynthetic community. Arsenic(V) arsenate is much less soluble than arsenic(III) arsenite. Without arsenic based photosynthesis, there would be little arsenic(V) arsenate being added to the sea water. One thing that arsenic(V) arsenate does is bind to ferric iron. They can co precipitate out of solution together. Or the arsenate can come into contact with a solid phase ferric iron surface and tightly adsorb. Either way, some arsenic should have been sequestered into the ferric iron of those sediment layers. And it would have only happened mid sequence if arsenic based anoxygenic photosynthesis put it there. Otherwise, no arsenic(V) arsenate would have been introduced into the sea water until well after cyanobacteria dominated at the surface, making oxygen. I'll see if I can find chemical analysis to see if the arsenic is only found in the iron ore layers, or if there is a missing link in the succession sequence of photosynthetic communities that laid down an arsenic enriched layer much closer to the chert at the bottom. |
RE: Manganese as candidate for intracellular photooxidation14-04-2025 02:38 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Manganese as candidate for intracellular photooxidation. We don't know if manganese was the first material used by photosynthetic organisms for intracellular photooxidation in photosynthesis. The plants we know today certainly have a manganese atom suspended in an organic matrix at the reaction center for photosynthesis. Manganese would have been a good candidate for the very one to exploit hydrogen via photosynthesis as an anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria. Manganese photooxidizes more easily than most elements. Manganese has multiple potential oxidation states, with manganese(II) and manganese(IV) as the most common, stable ones. Oxidation of manganese(II) to manganese(IV) is more than enough to satisfy the needs of aerobic manganese oxidizing bacteria. Reduction of manganese(IV) to manganese(II) is more than enough to enable a manganese reducing bacteria to acquire metabolic energy by using manganese(IV) as a terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon. For the first photosynthetic bacteria to do it, photooxidizing manganese(II) to manganese(IV) would have been more than enough to use hydrogen for anoxygenic photosynthesis. But manganese can be oxidized even further, to generate a more powerful terminal electron acceptor. During aerobic manganese oxidation by bacteria, manganese(II) is oxidized to manganese(IV). However, a tiny fraction of it gets oxidized even further, to manganese(VII). Manganese(VII) is a powerful enough terminal electron acceptor to abiotically oxidize trivalent chromium into hexavalent chromium. Oxygen isn't a strong enough oxidant to pull that off. So, the primitive photosystem that only needed to photooxidize manganese(II) to manganese(IV) stumbled onto something that could later evolve to generate a more powerful terminal electron acceptor. Especially after an elaborate light harvesting evolved to grow in dimmer light, it became possible to photooxidize the manganese to a higher oxidation state. Something like manganese(VII) would be needed to use nitrite or tear water apart in photosynthesis. |
RE: Allelopathic Symbiosis with Iron Oxidizing Bacteria?14-04-2025 02:41 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Allelopathic Symbiosis with Iron Oxidizing Bacteria? In an iron rich sea, iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria have a competitive advantage over oxygenic cyanobacteria. They get more bang for the buck from sunlight, grow faster, and outcompete them. On the other hand, in a microsite zone at the surface where ferrous iron is not available in sufficient amount to support iron based photosynthesis, it wouldn't matter if the cyanobacteria grow more slowly. They didn't have to compete. Their faster growing competitors didn't have the option to challenge them without iron available to them. So, cyanobacteria are making a powerful terminal electron acceptor that is of potential value to many other organisms. An iron oxidizing bacteria would have benefitted greatly if a cyanobacteria were to allow it to be the first to receive any waste product. An iron oxidizing bacteria would have an incentive to get in close. A cyanobacteria would have an incentive to allow him to. a narrow exclusion zone at the high light surface could be established if the iron oxidizing partners selectively depleted it of iron. A thin zone where cyanobacteria had a monopoly on the sunlight, if their iron oxidizing partners monopolized the iron supply. Similar partnerships between cyanobacteria and sulfur oxidizing bacteria seem to be imbedded in the fossil record, but not as part of banded iron formations. When hydrogen sulfide was still available during the deposition of the banded iron formation sequences, the sulfur based photosynthetic bacteria would have very easily outcompeted the cyanobacteria. The would have outcompeted the iron based photosynthetic bacteria as well. While hydrogen sulfide was available, sulfur based photosynthesis was dominant. In this environment, it would have been of no value to a cyanobacteria to partner with an iron oxidizer. Iron based photosynthesis wasn't the competition. Allowing a sulfur oxidizing bacteria first dibs on the oxygen they make would help the cyanobacteria compete. All they need is to isolate a thin zone at the top where they can deplete the hydrogen sulfide and starve out the competition. The sulfur based photosynthetic bacteria will just have to live in the shade beneath them. |
RE: Photosynthetic Community Succession - Increasingly powerful oxidants created as oxidized waste products of14-04-2025 02:43 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Photosynthetic Community Succession - Increasingly powerful oxidants created as oxidized waste products of anoxygenic photosynthesis Banded iron formations (BIF) are the fossilized evidence of ancient photosynthetic community succession. Each layer of any banded iron formation reflects chemistry of the photosynthetic community that dominated during the time of its deposition. Each photosynthetic community used a reductant acquired from the environment to feed into photosynthesis, creating a corresponding oxidized waste product. When hydrogen was available, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria took in hydrogen from the water as reductant, creating water as the corresponding oxidized waste product. Hydrogen based photosynthesis does not add terminal electron acceptors to the water. The organic carbon deposited on the seafloor while hydrogen based photosynthesis is dominant does not have any oxidants from photosynthesis available to decompose it. Pure organic matter piles up. Upon depletion of hydrogen, sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthesis is now the strongest competitor for dominance. Sulfur based photosynthesis takes in hydrogen sulfide from the water for reductant in photosynthesis, creating sulfate as the corresponding oxidized waste product. Sulfate is a terminal electron acceptor that can be used by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon to acquire metabolic energy. With sulfate generated by sulfur based photosynthesis dominating the high light zone, some of the organic carbon piling up on the sea floor was oxidized by sulfate reducing bacteria. The sea floor sediment accumulated during the reign of sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthesis as the dominant community is a mix of organic matter and pyrite. When both hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide were depleted, iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis became the most effective competitor to dominate. Iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria take in ferrous iron(II) from the water as reductant for photosynthesis, creating ferric iron(III) as the oxidized waste product. With iron based photosynthesis dominating the surface, ferric iron(III) rained down on to the sea floor as the oxidized waste product of photosynthesis. Ferric iron(III) is essentially insoluble in sea water, unlike ferrous iron(II), and immediately precipitates and falls out of solution. Ferric iron(III) is a terminal electron acceptor that can be used by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon to acquire energy. Some of the ferric iron falling into the organic carbon rich sea floor gets captured by iron reducing bacteria for use as a terminal electron acceptor. That iron is reduced back into the soluble form of ferrous iron(II). Sediments accumulated during the reign of iron based photosynthesis are comprised of organic carbon and ferric iron(III). Minus that minor fraction of it that got removed by iron reducing bacteria. These organic carbon plus ferric iron(III) sediments should NOT have contained any iron pyrite. The previous source of sulfate was sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthesis. They have retreated and there should be minimal sulfate available to contribute pyrite to these sediments. Other anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria create even stronger oxidants as the oxidized waste products of photosynthesis. Arsenic based photosynthesis uses arsenic(III) arsenite from the water as reductant for photosynthesis, creating arsenic(V) arsenate as the oxidized waste product. Arsenate(V) arsenate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon for energy. These arsenic reducing bacteria turn it into arsenic(III) arsenite. Nitrite based photosynthesis uses nitrite, NO2-, as reductant, creating nitrate, NO3- as the oxidized waste product. These anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria create a powerful oxidant. Nitrate can be used by bacteria as a high energy yield terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon. Photosynthesis provided the sea with terminal electron acceptors which, in turn, provided new niches for bacteria to exploit the abundant organic carbon. |
RE: Reductant "deserts" of the Sea14-04-2025 02:45 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Reductant "deserts" of the Sea Every time the Earth spewed out a bunch of hydrogen gas into the atmosphere, a significant portion of it floated off into outer space. Even before photosynthesis began to employ intracellular photooxidation to generate oxidants, the irreversible oxidation of the Earth's crust was well along the way, just by expelling so much hydrogen into outer space. But then come along photosynthetic bacteria and they start generating terminal electron acceptors as the oxidized waste products of photosynthesis. Every step of the way as they evolve to feed weaker and weaker reductants into their photosystems, they end up creating stronger and stronger oxidants as oxidized waste products of photosynthesis. And they only had to do it because the stronger reductants were becoming more and more scarce as the Earth continued its irreversible oxidation. Hydrogen sulfide was the next best thing to use when hydrogen ran out, but it came with a cost of producing sulfate as the oxidized waste product of photosynthesis. Now there was a new oxidant being added to aggravate the problem. Sulfate would aggravate the depletion of the Earth's reductants. Sulfate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor for bacteria to oxidize hydrogen. A vicious feedback in the Earth's descent into becoming a reductant "desert". Where the sea was already a reductant "desert" - where no hydrogen, hydrogen sulfide, methionate, arsenic(III) arsenite, ferrous iron(II)... and not even enough nitrite left to support photosynthesis. Desperate measures were required. That nitrite oxidizing photosystem was going to have to ramp up the voltage. It was going to have to oxidize water if it was going to get any reductants out here now. So the last resort desperate measure was to oxidize WATER, making oxygen gas as the oxidized waste product of photosynthesis. This now opens up the reductant "deserts" of the sea for photosynthesis again. And it puts out the most powerful oxidant yet produced as the oxidized waste product of photosynthesis. Aggravating that irreversible oxidation of the Earth's crust . And rusting away all the iron in the sea. |
RE: Could Arsenic Have Been a Contender?14-04-2025 02:46 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Could Arsenic Have Been a Contender? When both hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide had been depleted in sea water, following a pause in vulcanism, there would have been the opportunity for iron based photosynthetic bacteria to take over the high light zone. There was plenty of ferrous iron(II) to use as reductant for their kind of anoxygenic photosynthesis. But could arsenic have been a contender? Arsenic(III) arsenite can be used as reductant for anoxygenic photosynthesis. Arsenite(III) arsenite is about TWICE as strong a reductant as ferrous iron(II). Could there have been enough bioavailable arsenic in the sea water to support arsenic based anoxygenic photosynthesis? We know that Mono Lake is a place where there's enough arsenic for them to do it today. Clearly, the bioavailability of IRON wasn't going to be an issue. At least not until someone starts putting too much oxygen around the best real estate. Could there have been enough arsenic in the sea for them to have been contenders? If there was, they should have left behind a very distinct intermediate layer within the banded iron formations. Come to think of it, the precise same question applies to NITRITE. We know there are places today where there is enough bioavailable nitrite to support nitrite based anoxygenic photosynthesis. That's how we know that photosynthetic bacteria who can use nitrite as reductant even exist. Could they have been contenders in the sea? Was there ever enough nitrite in sea water to support nitrite based anoxygenic photosynthesis? If there was, they should have deposited a chemically distinct layer on the sea floor. Very distinct, as nitrate is a powerful oxidant. Maybe nitrate oxidized manganese where it had never been oxidized before. So, conceivably there was some place in the sea where enough arsenic(III) arsenite was available to support arsenic based anoxygenic photosynthesis. Predictably, such a photosynthetic community would lay down a chemically distinct layer on the sea floor. Conceivably, there was some place in the sea where enough nitrite was available to support nitrite based anoxygenic photosynthesis. If so, it would predictably have laid down a very distinct sediment layer during its period of photosynthetic community dominance. But they would have to wait their turn. Nitrite based anoxygenic photosynthesis couldn't be competitive until all hydrogen, hydrogen sulfide, methionate, arsenic(III) arsenite, and ferrous iron(II) had been depleted first. |
RE: Carbonates in Archaean Sea Floor Sediments14-04-2025 02:48 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Carbonates in Archeaen Sea Floor Sediments Every banded iron formation, no matter how old, has pure chert as the bottom layer of each sequence or pair of fossilized marine sediment layers. This layer is pure silica and contains no iron. And no carbonates. Why no carbonates? When hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthesis dominated the ecosystem, the oxidized waste product of their photosynthesis was not a terminal electron acceptor. The hydrogen they took in as reductant was oxidized to water. Hydrogen based photosynthesis does not produce terminal electron acceptors that can be used in the formation of carbonate. No carbonate in the sea floor. When the sulfur-based anoxygenic photosynthesis came into dominance as the second community in the succession sequence - after HYDROGEN was depleted - the oxidized waste product of their photosynthesis created a terminal electron acceptor. Hydrogen sulfide was taken in as reductant for photosynthesis, and sulfate was the oxidized waste product. Sulfate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor for bacteria to oxidize organic carbon for energy. However, the oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is NOT carbon dioxide. It is carbonate, CO3(2-). Sulfate reduction generates carbonate, along with iron pyrite, in the sea floor when the sulfur-based photosynthetic community dominates. The sea floor under them is comprised of organic carbon, iron pyrite, and carbonate. This does not fossilize into a pure chert layer. It is chert, laced with the traces of iron pyrite and carbonate that sulfate reduction added to it. If, and ONLY if there were ever enough enough arsenic(III) arsenite in sea water to support anoxygenic photosynthesis, THEY would have been the third community in the succession sequence. Arsenite is a weaker reductant than hydrogen sulfide. But it is a stronger reductant than ferrous iron(II). Once the hydrogen sulfide was depleted, the field was open for the third kind of photosynthetic community to come in and dominate in the succession sequence. Arsenic based photosynthesis would have been favored over iron based photosynthesis, if arsenic(III) were available in sufficient supply. Arsenite is a stronger reductant than ferrous iron. The bacteria who feed arsenite as a reductant into their photosynthesis get more bang for the buck from sunlight than the bacteria who use ferrous iron as reductant for photosynthesis. If arsenic(III) were there, then arsenic based photosynthesis was the third wave in the ecosystem community succession, after hydrogen sulfide was depleted. Arsenic based anoxygenic photosynthesis uses arsenic(III) arsenite as reductant, and creates arsenic(V) arsenate as the oxidized waste product. Arsenic(V) is a terminal electron acceptor that can be used by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon for energy. The oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is NOT carbon dioxide. Arsenic reducing bacteria produce carbonate from the organic carbon they oxidize. This would leave carbonate in the sea floor. Arsenic(V) is not as soluble in sea water as arsenic(III). The sea floor material that accumulated while arsenic based photosynthesis would have contained organic carbon, and carbonate from arsenic reduction. It would have also contained arsenic(V). Arsenic(V) arsenate strongly adsorbs to solid ferric iron surfaces, or co precipitates with ferric iron out of solution, if ferric iron happens to be in solution. But at this stage in the community succession, there shouldn't have been much ferric iron in the water or seafloor for arsenic(V) to adsorb to or co precipitate with. If iron based photosynthesis and arsenic based photosynthesis co existed, the result would be ferric-iron-bound-arsenate in the sea floor, as well as carbonate, and lots of organic matter. Iron based photosynthesis would have been the fourth community in the succession sequence if arsenic(III) were available as reductant for anoxygenic photosynthesis. Without enough arsenic(III) to support that kind of photosynthesis, Iron based photosynthesis would have been the THIRD community in the succession sequence that created banded iron formations. Iron based photosynthesis takes in ferrous iron(II) as reductant, and produces ferric iron(III) as the oxidized waste product. Ferric iron(III) can be used as a terminal electron acceptor by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon for energy. The oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is CARBONATE, not carbon dioxide. They too added carbonate to the sea floor when iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis was dominant. It is conceivable that nitrite based anoxygenic photosynthesis contributed to banded iron formations, but two conditions would have been required. There would have to have been enough nitrite in the water somewhere to support it. And there would have to have been such low concentrations of ferrous iron(II) in that zone that the iron based photosynthetic bacteria, using their stronger reductant, couldn't easily outcompete them. SOMEWHERE in the sea it could have happened. Especially if a nitrite based photosynthetic bacteria teamed up with an iron oxidizer who uses nitrate for a terminal electron acceptor. The photosynthetic bacteria could have fed his waste product nitrate directly to an iron oxidizing partner. Nitrate could have been used to oxidize and deplete the ferrous iron in the water, making it unavailable for iron based photosynthesis. Nitrate is a strong enough oxidant to oxidize manganese, and that should have left its fingerprints in the sediment. And when nitrate is used as a terminal electron acceptor by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon, the oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is CARBONATE, not carbon dioxide. More seafloor carbonate. |
14-04-2025 02:58 | |
Swan![]() (6496) |
Im a BM wrote:Swan wrote:Into the Night wrote:Im a BM wrote: Says the dropout, who cuts and pastes everything. What makes you think that stealing others intellectual property is wise? IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD. According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND. ULTRA MAGA "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic? ![]() Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy ![]() Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL |
RE: What is NEW about this Model of Banded Iron Formation Deposition?14-04-2025 02:59 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Paleobiogeochemistry, Anoxygenic Photosynthesis, and Banded Iron Formations Episodic vulcanism filled the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. While hydrogen was available, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community, and deposited pure organic matter on the sea floor. This organic matter remained unblemished because there were virtually no terminal electron acceptors (i.e. oxidants) that could be used to oxidize it for metabolic energy. When it fossilized, all the organic carbon was replaced by silica to become a layer of pure chert. EVERY banded iron formation from 2000-4000 million years begins with a layer of pure chert at the bottom. Hydrogen floats off to outer space. When the vulcanism ceased, the hydrogen diminished until there was none left to support anoxygenic photosynthesis. This is when the sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria take over. They use hydrogen sulfide as reductant for photosynthesis. They generated sulfate as the oxidized waste product. Sulfate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor by sulfate reducing bacteria to oxidize organic carbon in the sea floor. This generate ferrous sulfide or iron pyrite. This iron pyrite was mixed in with the organic matter that accumulated on the sea floor during the time sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community. Organic matter mixed with iron pyrite fossilizes into iron-laced chert. All the organic carbon and nearly all the sulfur have been replaced with silica. The layer just above the bottom layer of chert in banded iron formations is always iron laced chert. With carbonates. Sulfate reduction enables bacteria to oxidize organic carbon, but the oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is NOT CARBON DIOXIDE. Sulfate reduction transforms organic carbon into CARBONATE. Take THAT and fossilize it! EVERY sediment layer under every photosynthetic community in which organic carbon was being oxidized by a terminal electron acceptor other than oxygen transformed organic carbon into carbonate. Sulfur reduction, iron reduction, arsenic reduction, and nitrate reduction would ALL put carbonate in the seafloor if they occurred. When the hydrogen sulfide finally ran out, after enough time without vulcanism, the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria finally had their chance to dominate the photosynthetic community. Iron based photosynthesis uses ferrous iron(II) as reductant for photosynthesis. It generates ferric iron(III) as the oxidized waste product. Ferric iron(III) is insoluble in sea water, so it rained down on the sea floor while the iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis dominated. They laid down organic matter and ferric iron(III) on the sea floor. They did not form any iron pyrite because the sulfur based photosynthetic community was gone and no longer generating sulfate for pyrite formation. No pyrite, but iron reduction DOES transform sea floor organic carbon into CARBONATE. This layer of organic carbon, ferric iron(III), and CARBONATE fossilized into iron ore. And those are just the first three layers. Follow up later with what happens when community succession moves on to have oxygenic cyanobacteria as the dominant photosynthetic community in the high light zone. Putting oxygen in the sea water certainly influence the chemistry of the sediments. At any time this succession can get reset. Another big asteroid can crash, filling the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. Starting the banded iron formation sequence all over again. And it would take a VERY long time before all the ferrous iron(II) was finally going to be depleted from the ocean. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SO, WHAT ELSE IS NEW? ??? What is new and different about this model, compared to all the other theories about banded iron formation? The INTRACELLULAR PHOTOOXIDATION hypothesis as the origin of photosynthesis. Photosynthesis takes in reductants and via intracellular photooxidation generates oxidized waste products (oxygen, nitrate, ferric iron, arsenate, sulfate, or water). Originally evolved because no terminal electron acceptors were available in the water to allow them to exploit the hydrogen. The EXPANDING PHOTOSYSTEM OXIDATION CAPACITY hypothesis. As the first photosynthetic bacteria competed to exploit the hydrogen in the low light zone, it expanded its light harvesting apparatus to be able to use light of longer wavelengths then the low end ultraviolet it first used for intracellular photooxidation. The same expansions of its light harvesting apparatus that enabled it to use high energy reductants in low light would later allow them to use low energy reductants in high light. The RHYTHMICALLY VIBRATING CRUST hypothesis as the reason for such consistent spacing in the ancient "microbanded" banded iron formations. 4000 million years ago, the Earth's crust was thin and flexible, belching out steam and gas on a regular schedule. Like the Old Faithful geyser at Yellowstone, the earth belched out hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide in hydrothermal steam on a schedule so consistent you could set your clock to it. The SEQUENTIAL REDUCTANT DEPLETION hypothesis as the explanation for the environmental change that caused photosynthetic community succession. As hydrogen gas from the latest eruption floated off to space and diminished in the atmosphere, it became the first reductant in the sequence to be depleted, starving the existing photosynthetic community and opening the field for the next one to move in, using the next strongest reductant. The PHOTOSYNTHETIC COMMUNITY SUCCESSION hypothesis as the explanation for the consistent sequencing of the bands in banded iron formation. The first community in the succession, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthesis, laid down pure organic matter on the sea floor which fossilized into pure chert. At the bottom of EVERY banded iron formation sequence deposited between 4000 and 2000 million years ago. Up to six photosynthetic communities using up to six different elements as reductants for photosynthesis (H, S, As, Fe, N, and O) left up to six different chemically unique sediment layers in a repeating sequence. The SYMBIOTIC ALLELOPATHIC OXIDATION hypothesis as the explanation for the ability of cyanobacteria to extablish a narrow exclusion zone near the surface, despite the ubiquitous presence of ferrous iron(II) in the water beneath, and bring about the GREAT OXIDATION of the lifeless continents. Cyanobacteria partnered with an iron oxidizing bacteria to help it starve out its faster growing competitors. Allowing the iron oxidizing bacteria exclusive access to the oxidized oxygen waste product of its photosynthesis. They could deplete the ferrous iron in the immediate high light vicinity and create a narrow exclusion zone where only cyanobacteria could compete. Iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria would just have to grow in the shade beneath them. As they still do today where both kinds of photosynthetic bacteria still compete. This symbiotic allelopathic oxidation enabled cyanobacteria to stay on top, literally, where the oxygen they put out facilitated the GREAT OXIDATION of the lifeless rocks above sea level. Meanwhile, too much ferrous iron in the underlying sea water, where the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic community STILL had it made in the shade, was never going to allow free oxygen to accumulate in the sea. When the sea was full of hydrogen sulfide, iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis couldn't compete. Couldn't get as much bang for the buck from sunlight. So long as hydrogen sulfide was around, they could outcompete any iron based photosynthetic for light. Any light, dim or bright. To this day they grow in the shade of cyanobacteria, if there's enough sulfide coming into the water. Sulfur oxidizing bacteria, using the oxygen made by cyanobacteria, deplete the high light zone of sulfide. Sulfur photosynthetic bacteria can't grow right up where the oxygen is, but they can thrive in the shade beneath the cyanobacteria, TO THIS DAY. They did this on an ocean wide level back in the day. Only after all the H2S was gone could the IRON photosynthetic bacteria grow in the shade of the cyanobacteria. The lifeless elements on land could be oxidized from what the cyanobacteria put in the atmosphere already. It would takes hundreds of millions of years longer before the ferrous iron in the sea was finally oxidized enough to allow free oxygen to support the Cambrian Explosion 540 million years ago, and then create the UV shielding ozone layer to enable colonization of the lifeless land above sea level, about 500 million years ago. Do not "cite" me for this public domain presentation of food for thought. If you REALLY have to, tell me "thanks" in the "Acknowledgements". You're welcome! |
14-04-2025 03:39 | |
Swan![]() (6496) |
Im a BM wrote: Says the mental 8 year old behavioral analyst IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD. According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND. ULTRA MAGA "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic? ![]() Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy ![]() Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL |
14-04-2025 06:31 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Paleobiogeochemistry, Anoxygenic Photosynthesis, and Banded Iron Formations Episodic vulcanism filled the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. While hydrogen was available, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community, and deposited pure organic matter on the sea floor. This organic matter remained unblemished because there were virtually no terminal electron acceptors (i.e. oxidants) that could be used to oxidize it for metabolic energy. When it fossilized, all the organic carbon was replaced by silica to become a layer of pure chert. EVERY banded iron formation from 2000-4000 million years begins with a layer of pure chert at the bottom. Hydrogen floats off to outer space. When the vulcanism ceased, the hydrogen diminished until there was none left to support anoxygenic photosynthesis. This is when the sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria take over. They use hydrogen sulfide as reductant for photosynthesis. They generated sulfate as the oxidized waste product. Sulfate can be used as a terminal electron acceptor by sulfate reducing bacteria to oxidize organic carbon in the sea floor. This generate ferrous sulfide or iron pyrite. This iron pyrite was mixed in with the organic matter that accumulated on the sea floor during the time sulfur based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria dominated the photosynthetic community. Organic matter mixed with iron pyrite fossilizes into iron-laced chert. All the organic carbon and nearly all the sulfur have been replaced with silica. The layer just above the bottom layer of chert in banded iron formations is always iron laced chert. With carbonates. Sulfate reduction enables bacteria to oxidize organic carbon, but the oxidized (inorganic) carbon product is NOT CARBON DIOXIDE. Sulfate reduction transforms organic carbon into CARBONATE. Take THAT and fossilize it! EVERY sediment layer under every photosynthetic community in which organic carbon was being oxidized by a terminal electron acceptor other than oxygen transformed organic carbon into carbonate. Sulfur reduction, iron reduction, arsenic reduction, and nitrate reduction would ALL put carbonate in the seafloor if they occurred. When the hydrogen sulfide finally ran out, after enough time without vulcanism, the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria finally had their chance to dominate the photosynthetic community. Iron based photosynthesis uses ferrous iron(II) as reductant for photosynthesis. It generates ferric iron(III) as the oxidized waste product. Ferric iron(III) is insoluble in sea water, so it rained down on the sea floor while the iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis dominated. They laid down organic matter and ferric iron(III) on the sea floor. They did not form any iron pyrite because the sulfur based photosynthetic community was gone and no longer generating sulfate for pyrite formation. No pyrite, but iron reduction DOES transform sea floor organic carbon into CARBONATE. This layer of organic carbon, ferric iron(III), and CARBONATE fossilized into iron ore. And those are just the first three layers. Follow up later with what happens when community succession moves on to have oxygenic cyanobacteria as the dominant photosynthetic community in the high light zone. Putting oxygen in the sea water certainly influence the chemistry of the sediments. At any time this succession can get reset. Another big asteroid can crash, filling the sea and atmosphere with hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide. Starting the banded iron formation sequence all over again. And it would take a VERY long time before all the ferrous iron(II) was finally going to be depleted from the ocean. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- SO, WHAT ELSE IS NEW? ??? What is new and different about this model, compared to all the other theories about banded iron formation? The INTRACELLULAR PHOTOOXIDATION hypothesis as the origin of photosynthesis. Photosynthesis takes in reductants and via intracellular photooxidation generates oxidized waste products (oxygen, nitrate, ferric iron, arsenate, sulfate, or water). Originally evolved because no terminal electron acceptors were available in the water to allow them to exploit the hydrogen. The EXPANDING PHOTOSYSTEM OXIDATION CAPACITY hypothesis. As the first photosynthetic bacteria competed to exploit the hydrogen in the low light zone, it expanded its light harvesting apparatus to be able to use light of longer wavelengths then the low end ultraviolet it first used for intracellular photooxidation. The same expansions of its light harvesting apparatus that enabled it to use high energy reductants in low light would later allow them to use low energy reductants in high light. The RHYTHMICALLY VIBRATING CRUST hypothesis as the reason for such consistent spacing in the ancient "microbanded" banded iron formations. 4000 million years ago, the Earth's crust was thin and flexible, belching out steam and gas on a regular schedule. Like the Old Faithful geyser at Yellowstone, the earth belched out hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide in hydrothermal steam on a schedule so consistent you could set your clock to it. The SEQUENTIAL REDUCTANT DEPLETION hypothesis as the explanation for the environmental change that caused photosynthetic community succession. As hydrogen gas from the latest eruption floated off to space and diminished in the atmosphere, it became the first reductant in the sequence to be depleted, starving the existing photosynthetic community and opening the field for the next one to move in, using the next strongest reductant. The PHOTOSYNTHETIC COMMUNITY SUCCESSION hypothesis as the explanation for the consistent sequencing of the bands in banded iron formation. The first community in the succession, hydrogen based anoxygenic photosynthesis, laid down pure organic matter on the sea floor which fossilized into pure chert. At the bottom of EVERY banded iron formation sequence deposited between 4000 and 2000 million years ago. Up to six photosynthetic communities using up to six different elements as reductants for photosynthesis (H, S, As, Fe, N, and O) left up to six different chemically unique sediment layers in a repeating sequence. The SYMBIOTIC ALLELOPATHIC OXIDATION hypothesis as the explanation for the ability of cyanobacteria to extablish a narrow exclusion zone near the surface, despite the ubiquitous presence of ferrous iron(II) in the water beneath, and bring about the GREAT OXIDATION of the lifeless continents. Cyanobacteria partnered with an iron oxidizing bacteria to help it starve out its faster growing competitors. Allowing the iron oxidizing bacteria exclusive access to the oxidized oxygen waste product of its photosynthesis. They could deplete the ferrous iron in the immediate high light vicinity and create a narrow exclusion zone where only cyanobacteria could compete. Iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic bacteria would just have to grow in the shade beneath them. As they still do today where both kinds of photosynthetic bacteria still compete. This symbiotic allelopathic oxidation enabled cyanobacteria to stay on top, literally, where the oxygen they put out facilitated the GREAT OXIDATION of the lifeless rocks above sea level. Meanwhile, too much ferrous iron in the underlying sea water, where the iron based anoxygenic photosynthetic community STILL had it made in the shade, was never going to allow free oxygen to accumulate in the sea. When the sea was full of hydrogen sulfide, iron based anoxygenic photosynthesis couldn't compete. Couldn't get as much bang for the buck from sunlight. So long as hydrogen sulfide was around, they could outcompete any iron based photosynthetic for light. Any light, dim or bright. To this day they grow in the shade of cyanobacteria, if there's enough sulfide coming into the water. Sulfur oxidizing bacteria, using the oxygen made by cyanobacteria, deplete the high light zone of sulfide. Sulfur photosynthetic bacteria can't grow right up where the oxygen is, but they can thrive in the shade beneath the cyanobacteria, TO THIS DAY. They did this on an ocean wide level back in the day. Only after all the H2S was gone could the IRON photosynthetic bacteria grow in the shade of the cyanobacteria. The lifeless elements on land could be oxidized from what the cyanobacteria put in the atmosphere already. It would takes hundreds of millions of years longer before the ferrous iron in the sea was finally oxidized enough to allow free oxygen to support the Cambrian Explosion 540 million years ago, and then create the UV shielding ozone layer to enable colonization of the lifeless land above sea level, about 500 million years ago. Do not "cite" me for this public domain presentation of food for thought. If you REALLY have to, tell me "thanks" in the "Acknowledgements". You're welcome! |
14-04-2025 14:04 | |
Swan![]() (6496) |
Im a BM wrote: If you say so Corky IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD. According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND. ULTRA MAGA "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic? ![]() Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy ![]() Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL |
RE: Tony's Ark - Multiple Redox Couples to Create Multiple Niches15-04-2025 07:03 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Tony's Ark - Multiple Redox Couples to Create Multiple Niches. Among the organisms sent to seed a distant planet would be chemoautotrophs. Most of these are bacteria that gain their energy through oxidation of mineral reductants. They make organic carbon by reducing inorganic carbon (carbon dioxide, bicarbonate, carbonate). "Autotrophs" means they feed themselves with organic carbon that they synthesize from inorganic carbon. Some reductants, such as hydrogen, are strong and yield high energy upon oxidation with a strong oxidant. Other reductants, such as ammonium, are weak and yield little energy upon oxidation with a strong oxidant. A strong reductant such as hydrogen can yield enough energy to support life even when coupled with very weak oxidants, such as carbon dioxide. Methanogens combine hydrogen with carbon dioxide to make methane and provide a small energy yield. A strong oxidant, such as nitrate, can yield enough energy to support life even when coupled with a very weak reductant such as ammonium. Anammox bacteria combine ammonium and nitrate to make nitrogen gas. And the list of potential redox couples is long, with many niches for oxidizers and reducers to couple many different reductants and oxidants. Oxygen is not included here, although it is an even stronger oxidant than nitrate, because there would be no oxygen on the planet to be terraformed. Not for a very, very, very long time. Indeed, if the goal is to generate an oxygen atmosphere so that humans can eventually colonize the planet, it would be pointless. We could never survive the journey anyway. Not even frozen embryos to be raised by nannybots. By the time our terraformed planet has free oxygen in its atmosphere, our sun will have expanded into a red giant and the Earth will be toast. Humans will almost certainly gone extinct long before that. So, why bother? Is there enough intrinsic value in life to justify the effort to extend its range to a new planet? We wouldn't be doing it for our OWN benefit. |
RE: Terraforming other planets with applied biogeochemistry15-04-2025 07:05 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Terraforming other planets with applied biogeochemistry. The cosmic time scale is very long. The existence of the human race is just a blink of the eye on that time scale. The earth will not always be able to sustain life. The sun's luminosity continues to increase. One day the earth's fate will be similar to that of Venus. Long before the earth becomes too hot, the human race is very likely to have gone extinct for one reason or another. This may be a unique opportunity in the history of the universe. Whether or not the first life STARTED on earth, this planet can be the source of life on planets beyond our own star. The greater consciousness will grieve the loss of life on earth. But new life on other planets could create new symphonies of souls to play beautiful music that pleases the greater consciousness so much. We could even redeem our selves for the sins against our own planet. This new mass extinction in progress is totally uncool. But what would it take to plant seeds of life on a distant planet? The journey would be far too long for any complex organism seeds, spores, embryos, etc., to be viable by the time they got to their new home. But life on earth began with only the simplest organisms. The kind most likely to survive an interstellar journey. 4000 million years ago, some intelligent species far from here might have been thinking the same thing. They knew they could never send one of their own complex intelligent bodies. Perhaps they planted seeds on Venus and Earth at the same time. They would have done much better on Venus in those days. It is not impossible that Earth is where it started, and there is no other place in the universe with similar life. We might eventually discover that there was never life of any kind of Venus. Our mythology is filled with Venus related themes, some even suggesting that Venus was the source of life on Earth, or at least the source of souls on earth. In any case, understanding the natural history of life on earth could help us know what kind of seeds to send to younger lifeless planet. Earth was very cold, had no free oxygen, and was abundant with energy rich reductants such hydrogen gas and hydrogen sulfide. This thread will be a good place for discussing how life ever could survive here, and what it would take to facilitate enabling new life to survive elsewhere. To honor a true scientific genius who died several years ago, posts related to this theme will be on this thread under the same heading every time. "Tony's Ark", they will be called. Terraforming other planets with applied biogeochemistry. |
15-04-2025 12:50 | |
Swan![]() (6496) |
Im a BM wrote: Excellent point Corky IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD. According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND. ULTRA MAGA "Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic? ![]() Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy ![]() Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL |
16-04-2025 09:53 | |
Im a BM★★★★★ (2282) |
Terraforming other planets with applied biogeochemistry. The cosmic time scale is very long. The existence of the human race is just a blink of the eye on that time scale. The earth will not always be able to sustain life. The sun's luminosity continues to increase. One day the earth's fate will be similar to that of Venus. Long before the earth becomes too hot, the human race is very likely to have gone extinct for one reason or another. This may be a unique opportunity in the history of the universe. Whether or not the first life STARTED on earth, this planet can be the source of life on planets beyond our own star. The greater consciousness will grieve the loss of life on earth. But new life on other planets could create new symphonies of souls to play beautiful music that pleases the greater consciousness so much. We could even redeem our selves for the sins against our own planet. This new mass extinction in progress is totally uncool. But what would it take to plant seeds of life on a distant planet? The journey would be far too long for any complex organism seeds, spores, embryos, etc., to be viable by the time they got to their new home. But life on earth began with only the simplest organisms. The kind most likely to survive an interstellar journey. 4000 million years ago, some intelligent species far from here might have been thinking the same thing. They knew they could never send one of their own complex intelligent bodies. Perhaps they planted seeds on Venus and Earth at the same time. They would have done much better on Venus in those days. It is not impossible that Earth is where it started, and there is no other place in the universe with similar life. We might eventually discover that there was never life of any kind of Venus. Our mythology is filled with Venus related themes, some even suggesting that Venus was the source of life on Earth, or at least the source of souls on earth. In any case, understanding the natural history of life on earth could help us know what kind of seeds to send to younger lifeless planet. Earth was very cold, had no free oxygen, and was abundant with energy rich reductants such hydrogen gas and hydrogen sulfide. This thread will be a good place for discussing how life ever could survive here, and what it would take to facilitate enabling new life to survive elsewhere. To honor a true scientific genius who died several years ago, posts related to this theme will be on this thread under the same heading every time. "Tony's Ark", they will be called. Terraforming other planets with applied biogeochemistry. [/quote] Excellent point Corky[/quote] To the new viewer who might have been curious about biogeochemistry and doesn't understand the repetitious "Corky" references... There was a family drama show called "Life Goes On" in the late 1980s. One of the characters was named "Corky". Corky had Down's syndrome. So, now you have some refence to be able to understand why the "Corky" jokes are potentially funny. "Corky" may have been retarded. But I'm sure he was able to grasp the concept that frogs have lungs when he took secondary school science. I'm sure he was able to make sense of it and even remember it. Making Corky a scientific genius compared to a snarky, humor-challenged troll. |
RE: Banded Iron Formations - A thermodynamically predictable sequence of distinct layers17-04-2025 18:48 | |
sealover★★★★☆ (1794) |
Banded Iron Formations - A thermodynamically predictable sequence of layers This website, climate-debate.com, it the first place that this theory is "published". In one sentence: Banded iron formations consist of a thermodynamically predictable sequence of layers generated by multiple photosynthetic communities using multiple reductants from the environment, and generating multiple oxidants. Oxygenic photosynthesis gets ALL the attention. It's the one form of photosynthesis that doesn't require any energy yielding reductants (H2, H2S, As[III], Fe[II], NO2-) from the environment. The Great Oxidation was just the last step in the sequence. Thermodynamically predictable, natural selection will favor the photosynthetic community that can use the strongest reductant available in the environment. Thermodynamically predictable, the limited supply of that strongest reductant will be depleted over time, in part because photosynthesis itself is selectively consuming it and removing it from the water. Thermodynamically predictable, once that strongest available reductant is depleted, the competitive advantage goes to the photosynthetic community that can use the NEXT strongest reductant available from the environment. Thermodynamically predictable, that NEXT strongest reductant will be selectively depleted from the water, as photosynthesis itself consumes that reductant. Thermodynamically predictable, the oxidized waste products of photosynthesis act as terminal electron acceptors of varying strength, which can be used by other organisms to oxidize other reductants in the environment. Thermodynamically predictable, each successive photosynthetic community consumes a WEAKER reductant, and produces a STRONGER oxidant, than the community it replaced. Thermodynamically predictable, a sequence of chemically distinct sediments is laid down as reductants are depleted and oxidants are generated by multiple kinds of photosynthesis. Thermodynamically predictable, as soon as geologic activity resupplies the stronger reductants to the water, the competitive advantage goes back to the photosynthetic community that can use the strongest among them. Because photosynthesis evolved as a way to use intracellular photooxidation as a way to exploit energy rich reductants acquired from the environment. And it really comes down to thermodynamics in a way that is mathematically predictable, to see why we should EXPECT banded iron formations to have fossilized from the sequence of sediment layers from different photosynthetic communities, in a predictable sequence. |