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temperature increasing because the atmospheric mass is increasing


temperature increasing because the atmospheric mass is increasing16-09-2016 05:00
Tai Hai Chen
★★★★☆
(1041)
Every year people pump out billions of tons of carbon and hydrogen atoms into the air by burning fossil fuels which are made of carbon and hydrogen atoms which combine with oxygen in the air to form CO2 and H2O. As atmospheric mass increases, temperature increases. The relationship between atmospheric mass which is pressure and temperature is well described below.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-temperature-d_461.html
Edited on 16-09-2016 05:04
16-09-2016 05:22
jwoodward48
★★★★☆
(1537)
The atmospheric pressure is not significantly increasing. This is not the answer. I wish it were that easy.
16-09-2016 05:48
Tai Hai Chen
★★★★☆
(1041)
jwoodward48 wrote:
The atmospheric pressure is not significantly increasing. This is not the answer. I wish it were that easy.


A small increase in atmospheric pressure causes a big increase in temperature, as the chart shows.
16-09-2016 05:57
jwoodward48
★★★★☆
(1537)
That is temperature over different altitudes. More things than pressure are affecting the temperatures given.
Edited on 16-09-2016 05:57
16-09-2016 08:04
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8592)
If you notice the chart in the engineering toolbox only goes up to 16000 feet. It basically continues in the same vain until about 35000 feet, then temperature begins to climb again as you go higher. The point where this begins to happen is called the tropopause.

As you climb upwards through the stratosphere, you will eventually reach the stratopause, where you've reached the highest temperature again and it begins to drop with altitude.

Burning something DOES add mass to the atmosphere, temporarily. It's a tiny amount compared to the rest of the mass that's already there, but it's real.

The trouble is, water has a tendency to fall out of it again (as rain or snow). Carbon dioxide has a tendency to just get absorbed into seawater or get sucked up by a plant. The whole carbon cycle starts over again.

The oxygen returns to the atmosphere, and you are back where yous started from.

That's why pressure is not increasing. Local pressure changes cause storms or nice weather and our wind, but overall the pressure is not increasing.
16-09-2016 14:49
Tai Hai Chen
★★★★☆
(1041)
Into the Night wrote:
If you notice the chart in the engineering toolbox only goes up to 16000 feet. It basically continues in the same vain until about 35000 feet, then temperature begins to climb again as you go higher. The point where this begins to happen is called the tropopause.

As you climb upwards through the stratosphere, you will eventually reach the stratopause, where you've reached the highest temperature again and it begins to drop with altitude.

Burning something DOES add mass to the atmosphere, temporarily. It's a tiny amount compared to the rest of the mass that's already there, but it's real.

The trouble is, water has a tendency to fall out of it again (as rain or snow). Carbon dioxide has a tendency to just get absorbed into seawater or get sucked up by a plant. The whole carbon cycle starts over again.

The oxygen returns to the atmosphere, and you are back where yous started from.

That's why pressure is not increasing. Local pressure changes cause storms or nice weather and our wind, but overall the pressure is not increasing.


Adding air mass to the troposphere by burning and releasing carbon and hydrogen atoms increases temperature. My point exactly. The atmosphere had about 700 billion tons of carbon pre industrial. Each year some 30 billion tons are added. That's a lot even though CO2 accounted for some 0.03% of the atmosphere. As the chart shows, a very small increase in air pressure increases temperature a lot. Compare Toronto with Kitchener. Toronto elevation is about 300 meters lower resulting in an increase of about 3 C in temperature.

My point is, regardless of CO2 being better at trapping heat than oxygen or nitrogen, burning fossil fuels and increasing air pressure increases temperature in its own right.

As for the increase in pressure being temporary, I don't agree. Whatever you add to the atmosphere's balance stays there. The atmosphere is a cycle, and anything added to that cycle increases its mass. It's like, ye, if new water is added to the Earth's water cycle, then there will be more rain even though rain cycles, water goes up, water goes down, and repeat, but rain will be more because there would be more water in the water cycle.
Edited on 16-09-2016 14:55
16-09-2016 15:36
jwoodward48
★★★★☆
(1537)
No... Increasing the volume of the oceans will not increase the amount of water in the water cycle significantly. Only increasing the surface area of the oceans will do that, and we haven't added much area to the oceans. Not to be all "the Earth's too big for us to affect it," but the Pacific is huge. We really can't increase the surface area of the oceans that easily.
16-09-2016 20:45
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8592)
jwoodward48 wrote:
No... Increasing the volume of the oceans will not increase the amount of water in the water cycle significantly. Only increasing the surface area of the oceans will do that, and we haven't added much area to the oceans. Not to be all "the Earth's too big for us to affect it," but the Pacific is huge. We really can't increase the surface area of the oceans that easily.


Actually, increasing the surface area of the ocean only makes the water level drop.

The land elevation would have to drop as well of course, but that was a given fact as part of the argument.


The Parrot Killer
16-09-2016 21:00
jwoodward48
★★★★☆
(1537)
I was supposing that we had some way of increasing the ocean's volume. We don't. Likewise, we don't really have a way of lowering the continental plates, so this is all hypothetical.




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