Surface temperature of earth according to Boltzmann law

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

So, is trolling...

Mantra 40a. SOL3

Perhaps...

Mantra 40a. SOL4

Xadoman wrote:IBdaMann, why do you focus on the fact that emissivity can not be measured? That is quite irrelevant.

Xadoman wrote:

Now we can sum up the 33K( caused by the inner core)+255K( caused by the sun) and we get the overall 288K .


Do you agree with that, IBdaMann?

Where are you, IBdaMann? Do you agree that the average temperature is the sum of internal and external heating? Do you agree, that the inner core contributes to the average surface temperature of earth?

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

So, is trolling...

Mantra 40a. SOL3

Perhaps...

Mantra 40a. SOL4

Would you...

Xadoman wrote:
IBdaMann , do you agree that the average temperature is the sum of internal and external energy? Do you agree, that the inner core contributes to the average surface temperature of earth?

33K - inner core
255K - the sun

288 - inner core + the sun


Do you agree with that?

a thought experiment
ChatGPT
Sure, I'm ready to assist you with your thought experiment. Please go ahead and provide the details or question related to the thought experiment, and I'll do my best to help you explore the concept.





User
earth , no atmosphere, no sun, only inner core

ChatGPT

Understood. In this thought experiment, we will consider a scenario where Earth has no atmosphere, no external source of energy (such as the Sun), and only the inner core as the heat source. We can explore the implications and make some assumptions based on these conditions.

The inner core of the Earth is primarily heated by residual heat from its formation and radioactive decay of elements. It radiates heat outward, which is then transferred to the surrounding layers of the Earth. Without the presence of an atmosphere, the heat transfer process and temperature distribution would be different from the actual Earth.

To proceed with the thought experiment, please let me know what specific aspect or calculation you would like to explore or discuss further.





User
how to calculate the surface temperature of earth

ChatGPT

To calculate the surface temperature of Earth in this thought experiment, we can use the concept of thermal equilibrium. In thermal equilibrium, the rate of heat radiated by the Earth's surface would equal the rate of heat generated by the inner core.

The power radiated by a blackbody can be calculated using the Stefan-Boltzmann Law:

Power = σ * A * T^4

Where:

Power is the radiated power (in watts),
σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant (approximately 5.67 x 10^-8 W/(m^2·K^4)),
A is the surface area of the Earth,
T is the temperature of the Earth's surface.
In this thought experiment, we assume that the power generated by the inner core is evenly distributed over the surface area of the Earth.

To calculate the surface temperature, we can rearrange the formula:

T = (Power / (σ * A))^0.25

Given that we don't have the exact power value of the inner core, we can make a hypothetical assumption or provide a rough estimate based on available information. However, it's important to note that this thought experiment involves simplifications and may not accurately represent the actual surface temperature of the Earth.





User
ok, lets do it. 6000 degrees celcius. You know the radius on inner core etc

ChatGPT

Certainly. Let's assume a hypothetical temperature of 6000 degrees Celsius for the inner core of the Earth. The radius of the inner core is estimated to be around 1220 kilometers (1.22 x 10^6 meters).

Using the Stefan-Boltzmann Law, we can calculate the surface temperature of the Earth in this thought experiment.

First, we need to calculate the power radiated by the inner core using the formula:

Power = 4 * π * R^2 * σ * T^4

Where:

Power is the radiated power,
π is a mathematical constant approximately equal to 3.14159,
R is the radius of the inner core,
σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant,
T is the temperature of the inner core.
Let's substitute the given values and calculate the power:

Power = 4 * π * (1.22 x 10^6)^2 * 5.67 x 10^-8 * (6000 + 273.15)^4

Power ≈ 2.69 x 10^25 watts

Now, we can calculate the surface temperature of the Earth by dividing this power over the surface area of the Earth:

Surface Temperature = (Power / (σ * A))^0.25

Surface Temperature ≈ (2.69 x 10^25 / (5.67 x 10^-8 * 4 * π * (6.37 x 10^6)^2))^0.25

Surface Temperature ≈ 385.55 Kelvin (or approximately 112.4 degrees Celsius)

Xadoman wrote:
It seems that I also need to turn to AI to get some anwers:

a thought experiment
ChatGPT
Sure, I'm ready to assist you with your thought experiment. Please go ahead and provide the details or question related to the thought experiment, and I'll do my best to help you explore the concept.





User
earth , no atmosphere, no sun, only inner core

ChatGPT

Understood. In this thought experiment, we will consider a scenario where Earth has no atmosphere, no external source of energy (such as the Sun), and only the inner core as the heat source. We can explore the implications and make some assumptions based on these conditions.

The inner core of the Earth is primarily heated by residual heat from its formation and radioactive decay of elements. It radiates heat outward, which is then transferred to the surrounding layers of the Earth. Without the presence of an atmosphere, the heat transfer process and temperature distribution would be different from the actual Earth.

To proceed with the thought experiment, please let me know what specific aspect or calculation you would like to explore or discuss further. You also gave it a random number to start with.





User
how to calculate the surface temperature of earth

ChatGPT

To calculate the surface temperature of Earth in this thought experiment, we can use the concept of thermal equilibrium. In thermal equilibrium, the rate of heat radiated by the Earth's surface would equal the rate of heat generated by the inner core.

The power radiated by a blackbody can be calculated using the Stefan-Boltzmann Law:

Power = σ * A * T^4

Where:

Power is the radiated power (in watts),
σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant (approximately 5.67 x 10^-8 W/(m^2·K^4)),
A is the surface area of the Earth,
T is the temperature of the Earth's surface.
In this thought experiment, we assume that the power generated by the inner core is evenly distributed over the surface area of the Earth.

To calculate the surface temperature, we can rearrange the formula:

T = (Power / (σ * A))^0.25

Given that we don't have the exact power value of the inner core, we can make a hypothetical assumption or provide a rough estimate based on available information. However, it's important to note that this thought experiment involves simplifications and may not accurately represent the actual surface temperature of the Earth.





User
ok, lets do it. 6000 degrees celcius. You know the radius on inner core etc

ChatGPT

Certainly. Let's assume a hypothetical temperature of 6000 degrees Celsius for the inner core of the Earth. The radius of the inner core is estimated to be around 1220 kilometers (1.22 x 10^6 meters).

Using the Stefan-Boltzmann Law, we can calculate the surface temperature of the Earth in this thought experiment.

First, we need to calculate the power radiated by the inner core using the formula:

Power = 4 * π * R^2 * σ * T^4

Where:

Power is the radiated power,
π is a mathematical constant approximately equal to 3.14159,
R is the radius of the inner core,
σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant,
T is the temperature of the inner core.
Let's substitute the given values and calculate the power:

Power = 4 * π * (1.22 x 10^6)^2 * 5.67 x 10^-8 * (6000 + 273.15)^4

Power ≈ 2.69 x 10^25 watts

Now, we can calculate the surface temperature of the Earth by dividing this power over the surface area of the Earth:

Surface Temperature = (Power / (σ * A))^0.25

Surface Temperature ≈ (2.69 x 10^25 / (5.67 x 10^-8 * 4 * π * (6.37 x 10^6)^2))^0.25

Surface Temperature ≈ 385.55 Kelvin (or approximately 112.4 degrees Celsius)

Clearly something is wrong. It is 10 times too high.

Into the Night wrote:

Xadoman wrote:

Surface Temperature ≈ 385.55 Kelvin (or approximately 112.4 degrees Celsius)

Clearly something is wrong. It is 10 times too high.

What is wrong is that you cannot use the Stefan-Boltzmann law to calculate temperature. It is also not even using the Stefan-Boltzmann law, even though it says it is. It is also ignoring heat by conduction and heat by convection.

Power = 4 * π * (1.22 x 10^6)^2 * 5.67 x 10^-8 * (6000 + 273.15)^4
Power ≈ 2.69 x 10^25 watts

IBDaMann: 4 * π * (1.22 x 10^6)^2 * 5.67 x 10^-8 * (6000 + 273.15)^4

ChatGPT wrote:
Certainly! Using the order of operations (PEMDAS), I can simplify the expression you provided as follows:
4 * π * (1.22 x 10^6)^2 * 5.67 x 10^-8 * (6000 + 273.15)^4
= 4 * π * (1.22 x 10^6)^2 * 5.67 x 10^-8 * 6273.15^4
= 4 * π * 1.4884 x 10^12 * 5.67 x 10^-8 * 6.868 x 10^17
= 3.924 x 10^22

Therefore, the result of the calculation is approximately 3.924 x 10^22.

The power radiated by a blackbody can be calculated using the Stefan-Boltzmann Law: Power = σ * A * T^4

In short summary, most climate scientists are clueless about the difference between CHF and CSR and therefore erroneously greatly underestimate the power of geothermal. It may even be the biggest scientific scandal of our time!

The so called greenhouse effect is nothing but an artifact of geothermal, flipped upside down.

You are sitting on a hot plate (Geothermal).

There is a heat lamp pointing down at you (Sun).

There are gases in between the lamp and the plate.

Mainstream climate scientists believe the surface temperature can only be explained by the heat lamp and the gases.

Yes, it "must" be the gases that make it hotter than what the heat lamp alone can do. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the hot plate.

That's the retarded world of the greenhouse effect and its faux climatology we are living in. Luckily, readers of my blog know better

There is indeed a link between pressure and temperature, but the cause is temperature to pressure. Gravitational Pressure is counterbalanced by Atmospheric Pressure – which is an outward force caused by kinetic energy (Temperature).

Pressure itself can only raise temperature once. Gravity wants to crush all the molecules to the surface, but Temperature (kinetic energy) won't let it.

Xadoman wrote:
I found a blog where a very smart woman ( perfect math sat score, also an IT geek) makes an argument for geothermal energy. It seems to be greatly underrated:

Xadoman wrote:

In short summary, most climate scientists are clueless about the difference between CHF and CSR and therefore erroneously greatly underestimate the power of geothermal. It may even be the biggest scientific scandal of our time!

Xadoman wrote:

The so called greenhouse effect is nothing but an artifact of geothermal, flipped upside down.

Xadoman wrote:
[quote]You are sitting on a hot plate (Geothermal).

There is a heat lamp pointing down at you (Sun).

There are gases in between the lamp and the plate.

Xadoman wrote:
Mainstream climate scientists believe the surface temperature can only be explained by the heat lamp and the gases.

Xadoman wrote:
Yes, it "must" be the gases that make it hotter than what the heat lamp alone can do. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the hot plate.

That's the retarded world of the greenhouse effect and its faux climatology we are living in. Luckily, readers of my blog know better

Xadoman wrote:
I have always thought that we can not ignore the giant oven with a sun like temperature inside the earth. I can not do the math but intuition tells me that it must contribute quite a lot to the overall energy budget that heats the earth.

Xadoman wrote:
She also explaines why venus is so hot. Also caused by geothermal. She also explaines the link between the air pressure and temperature. I never got why ideal gas law was brought into the discussion as this law is quite irrelevant since the temperature of the gas is not caused by the pressure but the pressure is caused by the temperature.

https://phzoe.com/2019/12/25/why-is-venus-so-hot/

There is indeed a link between pressure and temperature, but the cause is temperature to pressure. Gravitational Pressure is counterbalanced by Atmospheric Pressure – which is an outward force caused by kinetic energy (Temperature).

Pressure itself can only raise temperature once. Gravity wants to crush all the molecules to the surface, but Temperature (kinetic energy) won't let it.

The ideal gas law does not apply here. Venus is not a closed container of a fixed volume.

Xadoman wrote: Atmospheric pressure has no effect on temperature.

Yes it does. You have to be more careful with your wording.

Atmospheric pressure has no effect on a planet's (body's) average temperature but no planet's atmosphere is ever of uniform pressure and any local temperature fluctuates with pressure fluctuations ... which immediately either begin to either warm or cool until the next pressure fluctuation.

The atmosphere, which is fluid and which has substantial mass, moves thermal energy around for a far more even distribution and this naturally affects every single local temperature. The overall average temperature, however, remains exactly the same.

Remember, you can boil water until it freezes solid. Pressure definitely affects temperature per the Ideal Gas law but nothing can either create or destroy energy and the average temperature of the body/closed system remains the same.

Xadoman wrote: Venus is hot because it has a lot of internal energy that reaches to the surface.

Venus is hot because of its proximity to the sun ... and due to Venus' emissivity, whatever that value might be. Any given local temperature where there is atmosphere is definitely affected by the atmosphere which is far denser than earth's and creates a pressure-cooker/grill-iron effect in conjunction with the solid surface moreso than earth.

Better worded.

Xadoman wrote:

The ideal gas law does not apply here. Venus is not a closed container of a fixed volume.

From an older thread, IBdaMann aswered to me:

Xadoman wrote: Atmospheric pressure has no effect on temperature.

Yes it does. You have to be more careful with your wording.

Atmospheric pressure has no effect on a planet's (body's) average temperature but no planet's atmosphere is ever of uniform pressure and any local temperature fluctuates with pressure fluctuations ... which immediately either begin to either warm or cool until the next pressure fluctuation.

The atmosphere, which is fluid and which has substantial mass, moves thermal energy around for a far more even distribution and this naturally affects every single local temperature. The overall average temperature, however, remains exactly the same.

Remember, you can boil water until it freezes solid. Pressure definitely affects temperature per the Ideal Gas law but nothing can either create or destroy energy and the average temperature of the body/closed system remains the same.

Xadoman wrote: Venus is hot because it has a lot of internal energy that reaches to the surface.

Venus is hot because of its proximity to the sun ... and due to Venus' emissivity, whatever that value might be. Any given local temperature where there is atmosphere is definitely affected by the atmosphere which is far denser than earth's and creates a pressure-cooker/grill-iron effect in conjunction with the solid surface moreso than earth.

To wich you anwered:

Better worded.

Temperature is the cause of the pressure not vice a versa. Simple as that. Without temperature the gas would collapse onto the planet.

This is a fictional planet. I did this on purpose to accentuate my point. The question here is: Why is the surface 1000°C?

Mainstream climate "scientists" would see the small geothermal heat flux (0.1 W/m²), ignore it, and conclude it must be because Solar + Atmosphere delivers 148,971 W/m² to the surface. It couldn't have anything to do with the 1010°C a hundred meters below the surface. Oh no, it can't be that!

But did I say this fantasy planet even has an atmosphere? What if not? The sun only delivers 165 W/m² ... Where's the rest of the energy coming from to make the surface 1000°C?

And if there is an atmosphere ... where did the atmosphere get 148,806 W/m² to give to the surface?

Climate cranks come to the rescue and claim that due to infrared absorbing gases in the atmosphere, the Sun's 165 W/m² gets auto-magically boosted to 148,971 W/m², because that 165 W/m² can't escape to space. You know what I have to say to that?


The Greenhouse Effect
Some people have serious problems accepting the truth: The surface here is 1000°C because it's 1010°C a hundred meters below the surface. Simple.

Now why is that so hard to accept? Ideological presupposition. That's why!

Xadoman wrote: Without temperature the gas would collapse onto the planet.

Xadoman wrote:Temperature is the cause of the pressure not vice a versa. Simple as that.