Sturgis

keepit wrote: How gullible is it of you to not believe the report before you knew anything about it.

keepit wrote:
It was a report on cnn from a researcher that was from san diego state.
How gullible is it of you to not believe the report before you knew anything about it. Basically it was done with cell phone data and expected death numbers. It was fairly sophisticated. Don't let that throw you though.

keepit wrote:
Researchers say that sturgis is linked to 267,000 new cases of covid. The cost of treating these patients plus the cost of lost work time is so high that if each attendee was paid $26,000 to not attend sturgis, it would have been profitable.

keepit wrote:
It was a report on cnn

keepit wrote:
from a researcher that was from san diego state.
How gullible is it of you to not believe the report before you knew anything about it. Basically it was done with cell phone data and expected death numbers. It was fairly sophisticated. Don't let that throw you though.

IBdaMann wrote:

keepit wrote: How gullible is it of you to not believe the report before you knew anything about it.

keepit, I know that you are normally very good at being a moron but you have outdone yourself on this one.

Gullibility involves believing when you shouldn't. You cannot accuse someone who does not believe of being gullible. Do you understand how that works? You can accuse someone who does not believe as being stubborn and willful, but absolutely not of being gullible.

.

keepit wrote:
gfm,
What you refer to as "liberal" language is really just the result of too much education. In my case i went to community college and then a public 4 year college and followed that up with flight training at the local airport. After flying for a few years i went back to community college and took a year of basic premed courses and the the full paramedic courses. Later i bought about $2000 dollars of Great Courses DVD's (about $4 per hour) and listened to them time and again. I'd say that the Great Course DVD's gave me more bang for the buck than anything.
Critical thinking and language skills are what i learned. You call this "liberal" thinking but it is just education.

keepit wrote:
gfm,
What you refer to as "liberal" language is really just the result of too much education. In my case i went to community college and then a public 4 year college and followed that up with flight training at the local airport. After flying for a few years i went back to community college and took a year of basic premed courses and the the full paramedic courses. Later i bought about $2000 dollars of Great Courses DVD's (about $4 per hour) and listened to them time and again. I'd say that the Great Course DVD's gave me more bang for the buck than anything.
Critical thinking and language skills are what i learned. You call this "liberal" thinking but it is just education.

keepit wrote:
Gas,
Maybe you just don't understand how those things work. Did you ever think of that?

GasGuzzler wrote:

keepit wrote:Gas, Maybe you just don't understand how those things work. Did you ever think of that?

I did not think of that. I don't have critical thinking education.

keepit wrote:
It was a report on cnn from a researcher that was from san diego state.

keepit wrote:
How gullible is it of you to not believe the report before you knew anything about it.

keepit wrote:
Basically it was done with cell phone data and expected death numbers. It was fairly sophisticated. Don't let that throw you though.

keepit wrote:
What are you talking about Harvey? I learned how to fly planes and did it well.

keepit wrote:
I learned how to work as a paramedic and did it well.

keepit wrote:
In mentioning Great Courses i was just passing on a cheap and efficient way of getting an education.

keepit wrote:
You'll learn critical thinking

keepit wrote:
and communication skills

keepit wrote:
but it isn't necessarily translatable into an occupation.

keepit wrote:
I translated my earlier education into flying and paramedic work.

keepit wrote:
Gas,
Maybe you just don't understand how those things work. Did you ever think of that?

keepit wrote:
Well then, listen to this.

"Forgiving loans" - Bottom line, it would be as if the taxpayer paid for community college and college education just like they pay for grade school and high school now.

keepit wrote:
"Printing our way out of debt" - we got in debt in a number of ways.

keepit wrote:
For example, spending money on national defense. Would you rather we would be defenseless?

keepit wrote:
We could have taxed ourselves to pay for it but then we wouldn't be able to buy as much stuff.

keepit wrote:
"Working 20 hour weeks" - well, if you don't like that idea, i don't know what to say.

keepit wrote:
Analyze these things, don't respond to them emotionally in the way you've been taught.
[quote]keepit wrote:
"Having half of what we have" - Well, so much of what we have is the result of the marketeers convincing us that we need so much of the stuff we buy.

keepit wrote:
Personally i'm not convinced.

Into the Night wrote:I do not accept any data that as data. The only data I accept is that which is published in raw form, that is known who collected and when it was collected, the instrumentation used to collect it, the method of collecting it, and that the method is free from bias. I must know who collected it and why.

If a statistical summary is presented, then in addition, the variance must be declared and justified, the margin of error properly calculated and accompanying the summary, and the date used must be selected by randN and normalized by paired randR.

keepit wrote:
Researchers say that sturgis is linked to 267,000 new cases of covid. The cost of treating these patients plus the cost of lost work time is so high that if each attendee was paid $26,000 to not attend sturgis, it would have been profitable.

keepit wrote:
Duncan,
Scared? Scared of what?
I'm just sending out precautionary advice. After all, if one doesn't know what one is doing, one tends to bump into things. Just looking out for you.

HarveyH55 wrote:
What's really amusing to me, is that we really have no clue, just how deadly covid-19 really is, until we go through and compare 2020 statistics, to past years. We know about 2.5 million Americans die every year, mostly from 'natural' causes. The additional 180,000, or what ever the scoreboard says at the end of the year, won't really bump the 2.5 million normally expected. We need to go through the cause of deaths, specifically respiratory infections. So far, we've stamped Covid-19 on every death even suspected of being infected/exposed. We also know that many of those dead, were near their expiration date, and had 2 or more chronic conditions. Are the age related deaths, really covid, or just what is normally expect each year.

The confirmed case numbers seem impressive, the hotspots, the outbreaks, spikes in new cases... After 7-8 months of intense testing, less than 2% of the American population has tested positive. We will probably never actually get a total on how many test were actually given, or how many individual get tested regularly.

What should be a real indicator, and missing from the scoreboard, is a running two week total of deaths, and new cases. The quarantine time is two weeks, so the virus should have ran it's course in that 14 days, or less. The running total since the beginning doesn't really have much value, other than fear mongering. Anything past 14 days, is no longer relevant to the current status of the pandemic. Florida has had at least two, data dumps, of month old (and longer) test results, and death reports. Of course, there can be some expected problems, labs, the health departments, are operating at maximum capacity, and get a surplus on some days, backlogged. That stale data shouldn't be included with current data, specially if it's more than two weeks old. The two dumps that got noticed, were 10's of thousands of positives, reported on the same days.

What's really scary, is that for us to achieve a 'herd immunity', we need 60-70% of the population to have been exposed, either infected, or vaccinated. Less than 2% of the population has tested positive so far... I find it really odd that antibody testing isn't more popular. Would we want to know that? The current PCR test, only checks for an active infection, which is pretty useless, considering it requires a long Q-Tip, shoved 4" up the nose. If you were exposed, but not actively infected, when sampled, you are likely to get a negative result, but likely sick as hell, before you get that result. Least with an antibody test, they would know who had it, and whether or not the antibodies are going to last. When a vaccine becomes available, we would like to be able to give the first few precious doses, to those who actually need it. Why vaccinate someone, who already has the antibodies, the vaccine is suppose to produce? Herd immunity is the goal, since there is no chance of isolation, and eradication. We need to know how many people have been infected, not just the numbers of those currently infected. 97% of people infected, don't require medical assistance. The symptoms are no different than a mild cold, most people wouldn't have bother getting the PCR test to confirm.

Into the Night wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:
What's really amusing to me, is that we really have no clue, just how deadly covid-19 really is, until we go through and compare 2020 statistics, to past years. We know about 2.5 million Americans die every year, mostly from 'natural' causes. The additional 180,000, or what ever the scoreboard says at the end of the year, won't really bump the 2.5 million normally expected. We need to go through the cause of deaths, specifically respiratory infections. So far, we've stamped Covid-19 on every death even suspected of being infected/exposed. We also know that many of those dead, were near their expiration date, and had 2 or more chronic conditions. Are the age related deaths, really covid, or just what is normally expect each year.

The confirmed case numbers seem impressive, the hotspots, the outbreaks, spikes in new cases... After 7-8 months of intense testing, less than 2% of the American population has tested positive. We will probably never actually get a total on how many test were actually given, or how many individual get tested regularly.

What should be a real indicator, and missing from the scoreboard, is a running two week total of deaths, and new cases. The quarantine time is two weeks, so the virus should have ran it's course in that 14 days, or less. The running total since the beginning doesn't really have much value, other than fear mongering. Anything past 14 days, is no longer relevant to the current status of the pandemic. Florida has had at least two, data dumps, of month old (and longer) test results, and death reports. Of course, there can be some expected problems, labs, the health departments, are operating at maximum capacity, and get a surplus on some days, backlogged. That stale data shouldn't be included with current data, specially if it's more than two weeks old. The two dumps that got noticed, were 10's of thousands of positives, reported on the same days.

What's really scary, is that for us to achieve a 'herd immunity', we need 60-70% of the population to have been exposed, either infected, or vaccinated. Less than 2% of the population has tested positive so far... I find it really odd that antibody testing isn't more popular. Would we want to know that? The current PCR test, only checks for an active infection, which is pretty useless, considering it requires a long Q-Tip, shoved 4" up the nose. If you were exposed, but not actively infected, when sampled, you are likely to get a negative result, but likely sick as hell, before you get that result. Least with an antibody test, they would know who had it, and whether or not the antibodies are going to last. When a vaccine becomes available, we would like to be able to give the first few precious doses, to those who actually need it. Why vaccinate someone, who already has the antibodies, the vaccine is suppose to produce? Herd immunity is the goal, since there is no chance of isolation, and eradication. We need to know how many people have been infected, not just the numbers of those currently infected. 97% of people infected, don't require medical assistance. The symptoms are no different than a mild cold, most people wouldn't have bother getting the PCR test to confirm.

The problem is, the statistics on Covid19 are mostly fake numbers. When you have people that died of accident, cancer, drug overdose, heart disease, or just plain old age listed as dying from Covid19, you have fake statistics, coroners committing felonies for money, and a lot of lawsuits forming.

Which is what is happening.

HarveyH55 wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:
What's really amusing to me, is that we really have no clue, just how deadly covid-19 really is, until we go through and compare 2020 statistics, to past years. We know about 2.5 million Americans die every year, mostly from 'natural' causes. The additional 180,000, or what ever the scoreboard says at the end of the year, won't really bump the 2.5 million normally expected. We need to go through the cause of deaths, specifically respiratory infections. So far, we've stamped Covid-19 on every death even suspected of being infected/exposed. We also know that many of those dead, were near their expiration date, and had 2 or more chronic conditions. Are the age related deaths, really covid, or just what is normally expect each year.

The confirmed case numbers seem impressive, the hotspots, the outbreaks, spikes in new cases... After 7-8 months of intense testing, less than 2% of the American population has tested positive. We will probably never actually get a total on how many test were actually given, or how many individual get tested regularly.

What should be a real indicator, and missing from the scoreboard, is a running two week total of deaths, and new cases. The quarantine time is two weeks, so the virus should have ran it's course in that 14 days, or less. The running total since the beginning doesn't really have much value, other than fear mongering. Anything past 14 days, is no longer relevant to the current status of the pandemic. Florida has had at least two, data dumps, of month old (and longer) test results, and death reports. Of course, there can be some expected problems, labs, the health departments, are operating at maximum capacity, and get a surplus on some days, backlogged. That stale data shouldn't be included with current data, specially if it's more than two weeks old. The two dumps that got noticed, were 10's of thousands of positives, reported on the same days.

What's really scary, is that for us to achieve a 'herd immunity', we need 60-70% of the population to have been exposed, either infected, or vaccinated. Less than 2% of the population has tested positive so far... I find it really odd that antibody testing isn't more popular. Would we want to know that? The current PCR test, only checks for an active infection, which is pretty useless, considering it requires a long Q-Tip, shoved 4" up the nose. If you were exposed, but not actively infected, when sampled, you are likely to get a negative result, but likely sick as hell, before you get that result. Least with an antibody test, they would know who had it, and whether or not the antibodies are going to last. When a vaccine becomes available, we would like to be able to give the first few precious doses, to those who actually need it. Why vaccinate someone, who already has the antibodies, the vaccine is suppose to produce? Herd immunity is the goal, since there is no chance of isolation, and eradication. We need to know how many people have been infected, not just the numbers of those currently infected. 97% of people infected, don't require medical assistance. The symptoms are no different than a mild cold, most people wouldn't have bother getting the PCR test to confirm.

The problem is, the statistics on Covid19 are mostly fake numbers. When you have people that died of accident, cancer, drug overdose, heart disease, or just plain old age listed as dying from Covid19, you have fake statistics, coroners committing felonies for money, and a lot of lawsuits forming.

Which is what is happening.

Don't think it's widespread fraud, but rather misinterpretation.

HarveyH55 wrote:
The health department just wanted death certificates tag, as covid-19 a possible contributing factor. Some states took it to the extreme, and an suspicion, or death, that tested positive was tagged.

HarveyH55 wrote:
Clearly, a gunshot victim would have died, with or without infection. In Florida, we had several. One was a family of 4, car accident, died at the scene. The father tested positive, though not sure why they would test a corpse (practice?).

HarveyH55 wrote:
All 4 listed as covid-19 related deaths. Had a couple motorcycle accidents, same deal. The health department just need a quick way to identify cases to review later, as a possible contributing factor. Of course some states know that lots of people dying, means they get lots of money and supplies, at the taxpayer expense, which nobody bothers to look into where it all went, or how it was used. A surplus, could be sold off, the money could be used for other things, or even 'vanish'.

HarveyH55 wrote:
Testing numbers are totally bogus, less than 2% of the population being tested, about a week to get results. Likely a whole lot of people don't bother with getting tested, it's a mild infect, a cold, for the vast majority of people.