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stefan boltzmann



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05-01-2021 01:24
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Too bad I never got to meet Hank. He says it all.

"The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered"

- Hank


You and Hank would get along nicely in your mutual search for a clue. To make it easier for you both, here are a few free clues to start off the new year.
Attached image:

05-01-2021 03:12
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
Yesterday I was invited to golf by my adult sons and the sky was blue and all the trees were green.It was low 30s and perfect.normally by January we get cooked here in the West with high 30s and a few days in a row over 40.C I am a happy camper.We played at Maylands which backs on the Swan river where I did contikki rafting 42 years ago.The same coke bottle is in the reeds where it was then.Joking.Its a different coke bottle.All this area was supposed to be flooded by now.Oooops
05-01-2021 16:14
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
duncan61 wrote:
Yesterday I was invited to golf by my adult sons and the sky was blue and all the trees were green.It was low 30s and perfect.normally by January we get cooked here in the West with high 30s and a few days in a row over 40.C I am a happy camper.We played at Maylands which backs on the Swan river where I did contikki rafting 42 years ago.The same coke bottle is in the reeds where it was then.Joking.Its a different coke bottle.All this area was supposed to be flooded by now.Oooops



Kind of a shame that people (all people) can't look back at historical records. In some places mountain passes are open for the first time in what?, 1,400 years? That goes back to the end of the Roman Warm Period and the start of the Dark Ages Cool Period.
During the Medieval Warm Period, what did historians record of flooding? Venice, Italy comes to mind as it is dealing with flooding now just as London, England is. With both cities, tidal surge pushing back against a river is what creates the problem. And both cities have built barriers to protect against this.
Those barriers act like a lock and in the future, a 2nd barrier might be needed to allow for an actual lock system. And for how expensive of a proposition that is, I guess the cost of moving the city away from the flood plain would be costlier.
With Venice, their barrier was under construction.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50401308

With it completed.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/15/venice-controversial-barriers-prevent-flooding-for-second-time
Edited on 05-01-2021 16:26
05-01-2021 16:58
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
James___ wrote: Kind of a shame that people (all people) can't look back at historical records.

It's kind of a shame that we can't just use proxy measures to recreate the past.

James___ wrote: During the Medieval Warm Period, what did historians record of flooding?

Unfortunately, not the cause. Also, their surveying equipment was also typically not calibrated to NIST standards.

What a shame.


.
05-01-2021 17:11
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: Kind of a shame that people (all people) can't look back at historical records.

It's kind of a shame that we can't just use proxy measures to recreate the past.

James___ wrote: During the Medieval Warm Period, what did historians record of flooding?

Unfortunately, not the cause. Also, their surveying equipment was also typically not calibrated to NIST standards.

What a shame.


.



It's kind of a shame that we can't just use proxy measures to recreate the past.



If the flooding extent of Venice and London was greater than current flooding, then we can. The proxy measures would be found in the soil. This is because flooding/storm surges deposit marine organisms. Rivers are fresh water while seas are salt water.
Those proxy measures would let us have an idea of the extent of flooding. If we haven't reached it yet, then we have yet to go past the limits of natural climate change.


p.s., sustained sea levels would be much easier to observe.
Edited on 05-01-2021 17:13
05-01-2021 19:40
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2919)
Where the rivers meet to oceans, there are special critters that can do both salt and fresh water, equally well. They all have relatives stuck with one or the other, as well. Sediment proxies are garbage, in the instance.

Rivers also tend to change course over time. Water always takes the path of least resistance. They also do this thing called 'erosion', where the carry away parts of rocks, and other crap, Sometimes the banks collapse, even cause landslides, that sometimes considerable blockage, the water finds a new path. Building cities, near a river was common, and desirable. Fresh water, is sort of a requirement, if you want to live, and prosper.
05-01-2021 22:14
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
James___ wrote:If the flooding extent of Venice and London was greater than current flooding, then we can.


Unfortunately there are two competing forces at play and they are the drivers for determining whether flooding is worse than in the past:

Competing Force #1: Both London and Venice are sinking. London because underlying clay is settling while Venice is unfortunately subducting (it will probably be totally gone in six to seven centuries).

Competing Force #2: Due to some strange attachment to these particular cities, humans are working to counter the effects of Competing Force #1. Over the centuries, more than a few Londoners and Venetians noticed their respective situations with regard to flooding ... and incorporated the issue/concern into how they built the cities going forward.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 05-01-2021 22:15
05-01-2021 22:29
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Where the rivers meet to oceans, there are special critters that can do both salt and fresh water, equally well. They all have relatives stuck with one or the other, as well. Sediment proxies are garbage, in the instance.

Rivers also tend to change course over time. Water always takes the path of least resistance. They also do this thing called 'erosion', where the carry away parts of rocks, and other crap, Sometimes the banks collapse, even cause landslides, that sometimes considerable blockage, the water finds a new path. Building cities, near a river was common, and desirable. Fresh water, is sort of a requirement, if you want to live, and prosper.




It wouldn't matter if an organism lived in the estuary. An estuary is where salt and fresh water mix. And if an estuary moves further upstream/river, that's because the flow of the river will have decreased.
The Mississippi River is an example of that as well as it's need to be dredged. Faster moving water flushes a river of sediment while slower moving water deposits it. Just another way to consider flooding/sea levels in the past. The flora in a river will change as an estuary moves up river. Some plant species are salt tolerant. That's botany though. That would be indicative of a sustained rise in sea level.
A cliff face showing a marine layer. Just a geologic fact. Different periods of being under or above water would be noticeable. How noticeable depends on if you know what you're looking for. With you, everything looks the same.
Attached image:

05-01-2021 22:48
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:If the flooding extent of Venice and London was greater than current flooding, then we can.


Unfortunately there are two competing forces at play and they are the drivers for determining whether flooding is worse than in the past:

Competing Force #1: Both London and Venice are sinking. London because underlying clay is settling while Venice is unfortunately subducting (it will probably be totally gone in six to seven centuries).

Competing Force #2: Due to some strange attachment to these particular cities, humans are working to counter the effects of Competing Force #1. Over the centuries, more than a few Londoners and Venetians noticed their respective situations with regard to flooding ... and incorporated the issue/concern into how they built the cities going forward.

.



It's an educational video (7 minutes long) about Holland the system of barriers and dykes they use and why. It seems maintaining their way of life and their economy made the cost of a barrier palpable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=i6DRRHXt-PA
06-01-2021 01:06
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
With some rivers like what flows into Venice, snow and glacial melt makes a difference. With England, it's flood plain and sediment deposited would show how the River Thames overran it's banks. It's upstream from the sea. This is where either a rising sea or a tidal surge would slow the flow of their river.
And as the picture of a marine layer shows, taking soil samples around London could date when the river was wider and when that was with radiocarbon dating. And as Winston Churchill said;
'Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it,'
And by knowing how rivers changed in the past, we would have an idea of what to expect in the future. And I think even then, we'd have a better idea of what to expect from storm surges.
This is where some in here complain about someone said it's going to flood, yet scientists aren't talking about known sea levels in the past. And those are known by proxy data.
06-01-2021 03:09
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
By the way, the historical record is something that you could've attacked the CO2 is causing global warming on but our planet has no warming or cooling periods. Showing previous high water marks did happen which are higher than those of today would only show like in northern states in the US, we do have seasons just as the planet has it's own periods of warming and cooling.
Don't want to confuse you guys on that last paragraph. In the winter, it gets cold in Green Bay, Wisconsin. And in the summer, it gets warm. The Earth itself cannot have times when it cools and then it warms. It's not Green Bay.
Just can't be considered though. It's an either/or proposition. You guys just can't get past it.
Edited on 06-01-2021 03:12
RE: For Fun06-01-2021 09:32
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
And now we're into Logs. Is this like what Nickelodeon aired 20 years ago about we love log? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fQGPZTECYs
And with this video, more log.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw5t6BTQYRU
Log is good.


The first one is watching my 3 nephews. The 2nd one is my not being around them.

Family vs no family. No family means no fun. No being nice. And a lot of FU!

Edited on 06-01-2021 09:57
06-01-2021 17:40
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
At the end of the day, I hear a lot of FU and now that it seems voter fraud has once again been committed in Georgia, what will Republicans and Trumpsters do? They should never tolerate having 2 senators lose on the same day to voter fraud. They'll need to take back America because it's theirs. And no one has the right to take control away from Republicans and their Trumpsters.
Now we just need to wait and see how they respond. Because I am a disabled Veteran, I can't be an American. Even Harvey says that I'm a loser because losers serve in the Armed Forces. I get that a lot from non-veterans. If I want a life, just go somewhere else. Why the learning math and science part. If I can show I know something in science that matters, I'll have my passage out of the US paid for by countries that want me to have a life.
After all, Trump is being blamed for the losses in Georgia when everyone supported him. How is that his fault when he was right and everyone agreed that he was right? It just shows that America has problems.

p.s., those 2 Georgia seats were guaranteed wins. The election was a formality. But I guess people got tired of hearing "we own this country". After all, the GOP is party first because we are the power.
Would be the same reason why I'll show where CO2 is needed in the atmosphere. It'll be a way out of here.

Edited on 06-01-2021 17:48
06-01-2021 19:24
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
James___ wrote: At the end of the day, I hear a lot of FU and now that it seems voter fraud has once again been committed in Georgia, what will Republicans and Trumpsters do?

We the People of the United States no longer get to mock other countries for being corrupt banana republics. We no longer have any credibility to demand other countries allow observers to ensure transparency in their elections.

Today, banana republics around the world are united in laughing at the United States where election fraud doesn't even have to be hidden, where the perpetrators feel no effort is required to conceal their activities, where the entirety of the news media will refuse to report it but will instead become militantly aggressive against anyone who tries to do so.

It's time for We the People to hold a no-confidence vote.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-01-2021 16:30
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: At the end of the day, I hear a lot of FU and now that it seems voter fraud has once again been committed in Georgia, what will Republicans and Trumpsters do?

We the People of the United States no longer get to mock other countries for being corrupt banana republics. We no longer have any credibility to demand other countries allow observers to ensure transparency in their elections.

Today, banana republics around the world are united in laughing at the United States where election fraud doesn't even have to be hidden, where the perpetrators feel no effort is required to conceal their activities, where the entirety of the news media will refuse to report it but will instead become militantly aggressive against anyone who tries to do so.

It's time for We the People to hold a no-confidence vote.

.



I think what basically amounts to a failed coup yesterday shows why this forum is a waste of time anymore. Don't have things your way? Time to overthrow the government.
That's inexcusable. To quote the first line in the preamble of the Constitution;
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,

That means working together and not rioting or attempting a coup. But anymore it seems more about power and who has it. It's funny but Americans need to be more powerful than other Americans. Ya'all can't go after Mexico or Canada so it's each other.
07-01-2021 17:16
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1586)
James___ wrote:
I think what basically amounts to a failed coup yesterday shows why this forum is a waste of time anymore.

The only coup attempt is from the Democrats (and wolf-in-sheep-clothing Republicans, such as Mitch McConnell and Mitt Romney), and their coup attempt is to install, yes INSTALL, CCP agent Joe Biden into the Presidency.

James___ wrote:
Don't have things your way? Time to overthrow the government.

That's precisely what the Democrats (and the wolf-in-sheep-clothing traitors amongst the Republicans) have been doing as of lately.

They wish to install a CCP agent as President because they are so sick and Satanic in their behavior (or behaviour, as James would prefer) that they cannot win free and fair elections anymore. They want money, power, and control over the "proles", and they will do anything to get it, including violence, destruction, compulsion, lying, and manipulating.

MANY people have wised up to this (if they weren't already wise to it), but there are still far too many people who no longer have the ability to think for themselves (in other words, they need regular programming from the mainstream media and from Wikipedia and Google in order to function).

James___ wrote:
That's inexcusable.

I agree. The actions of the Satanic Uniparty are inexcusable indeed! No worries though, because as a Christian (yes James, I am a Christian), I trust in God to shepherd over his flock and I know that justice will one day be served. I will continue to perform the Earthly duties that I have been called to perform (no matter who God ordains to have authority over me here on Earth, even if that happens to be a CCP agent).

James___ wrote:
To quote the first line in the preamble of the Constitution;
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,

That means working together and not rioting or attempting a coup. But anymore it seems more about power and who has it. It's funny but Americans need to be more powerful than other Americans. Ya'all can't go after Mexico or Canada so it's each other.

The Uniparty does not wish to "work together" with anyone. They consider themselves the "elite" and they wish to compulsively rule over the "proles". There is no "working together" with such Satanically influenced forces.
07-01-2021 17:36
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
gfm7175 wrote:

I agree. The actions of the Satanic Uniparty are inexcusable indeed! No worries though, because as a Christian (yes James, I am a Christian), I trust in God to shepherd over his flock and I know that justice will one day be served. I will continue to perform the Earthly duties that I have been called to perform (no matter who God ordains to have authority over me here on Earth, even if that happens to be a CCP agent).




You're not a Christian. The Republican party was clever to play to the wants and desires of the church so it could gain power. And the church likes the power the Republican party gives it.
What was it Jesus said?
John 18;
34; "Are you saying this on your own," Jesus asked, "or did others tell you about Me?"
35; "Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. " Your own people and chief priests handed You over to me. What have You done?"
36; Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now My kingdom is not of this realm."


And yet here you are fighting for what? To make Jesus' kingdom here on Earth? Kind of goes directly against what he said. At the same time, are you Jesus? A Christian? Notice how you sound nothing like him?


p.s., the extremist opinions in here aren't very productive towards having a good life or conducive to making friends.

Edited on 07-01-2021 17:40
07-01-2021 20:32
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(457)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Too bad I never got to meet Hank. He says it all.

"The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered"

- Hank


You and Hank would get along nicely in your mutual search for a clue. To make it easier for you both, here are a few free clues to start off the new year.


What a hilarious propaganda power point presentation!

Let me ask you a question...

Do oxygen and carbon dioxide have different emissivity?


08-01-2021 01:43
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
Good question Spongy the answer is of course no.CO2 radiates certain light that passes through nitrogen and oxygen.All the energy from the sun is light.We do not get convected heat from that distance
08-01-2021 02:54
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
duncan61 wrote:
Good question Spongy the answer is of course no.CO2 radiates certain light that passes through nitrogen and oxygen.All the energy from the sun is light.We do not get convected heat from that distance


Actually water is very good at absorbing incoming solar IR. But convection requires a substance and not particles. Water vapour is conduction. Just saying.


https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/climatesciencenarratives/its-water-vapor-not-the-co2.html

This kind of raises the question, as O2 decreases and CO2 increases, is this increasing the amount of water vapour in our atmosphere?
Edited on 08-01-2021 03:02
08-01-2021 03:45
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: At the end of the day, I hear a lot of FU and now that it seems voter fraud has once again been committed in Georgia, what will Republicans and Trumpsters do?

We the People of the United States no longer get to mock other countries for being corrupt banana republics. We no longer have any credibility to demand other countries allow observers to ensure transparency in their elections.

Today, banana republics around the world are united in laughing at the United States where election fraud doesn't even have to be hidden, where the perpetrators feel no effort is required to conceal their activities, where the entirety of the news media will refuse to report it but will instead become militantly aggressive against anyone who tries to do so.

It's time for We the People to hold a no-confidence vote.




I think what basically amounts to a failed coup yesterday shows why this forum is a waste of time anymore. Don't have things your way? Time to overthrow the government.
That's inexcusable. To quote the first line in the preamble of the Constitution;
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,

That means working together and not rioting or attempting a coup. But anymore it seems more about power and who has it. It's funny but Americans need to be more powerful than other Americans. Ya'all can't go after Mexico or Canada so it's each other.


The coup by the Democrats is successful. Biden will be installed as effectively Prime Minister on Jan 20th, probably in a relatively private ceremony.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 08-01-2021 03:48
08-01-2021 03:46
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
James___ wrote: Water vapour is conduction.

All matter of different temperatures transfers thermal energy on contact via conduction, including water vapor.

Contact = conduction.

Convection applies to fluids like water vapor because fluids expand when heated and move relatively to surrounding fluids due to gravity/buouancy.

Ergo, thermal energy transfer of water vapor involves both conduction and convection.

James___ wrote: This kind of raises the question, as O2 decreases and CO2 increases, is this increasing the amount of water vapour in our atmosphere?

This kind of raises the question, as plantlife thrives on the earth's surface and in the ocean, constantly converting CO2 to O2 on a massive scale, is O2 even decreasing and CO2 increasing?

Don't be a fraid to come to me with the hard stuff.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
08-01-2021 03:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
James___ wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Good question Spongy the answer is of course no.CO2 radiates certain light that passes through nitrogen and oxygen.All the energy from the sun is light.We do not get convected heat from that distance


Actually water is very good at absorbing incoming solar IR. But convection requires a substance and not particles. Water vapour is conduction. Just saying.


https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/climatesciencenarratives/its-water-vapor-not-the-co2.html

This kind of raises the question, as O2 decreases and CO2 increases, is this increasing the amount of water vapour in our atmosphere?


Water vapor is water vapor, not conduction.
Water is neither O2 nor CO2. Denial of chemistry.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
08-01-2021 03:57
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Good question Spongy the answer is of course no.CO2 radiates certain light that passes through nitrogen and oxygen.All the energy from the sun is light.We do not get convected heat from that distance


Actually water is very good at absorbing incoming solar IR. But convection requires a substance and not particles. Water vapour is conduction. Just saying.


https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/climatesciencenarratives/its-water-vapor-not-the-co2.html

This kind of raises the question, as O2 decreases and CO2 increases, is this increasing the amount of water vapour in our atmosphere?


Water vapor is water vapor, not conduction.
Water is neither O2 nor CO2. Denial of chemistry.



You weren't in the US Navy. You're still on the Res, your choice. And yes, water vapour moving through atmospheric gasses like N2, O2 and CO2 is conduction. And if it absorbs more IR, just adding to the conduction. This is if the water vapour comes from the sea.
And I think we all know that water vapour comes from bodies of water. Chemistry is actually a change in how different atoms/molecules change. With water vapour, it's state is changing but not it's composition. Therefore no chemistry is involved.
An example of basic chemistry is O forming an ionic bond with another O (oxygen, O) element. Then we have breathable oxygen which is O2. A molecule. Then we have chemistry and life.

okay, there's discrimination, etc. and I'm not Powhatan but am descended from Pocahontas. Getting her remains returned to a people who don't exist might get people to think a little.
Still, in here you're like my brother and I can't take it easy on you. If I did, they might think I like you.
Edited on 08-01-2021 04:29
08-01-2021 06:03
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
ITN, if I know my science, then Pocahontas returning to her people becomes a possibility.
Doubtful anything outside of that will help people like you. It's just the way life is. And please be mindful, there are no Powhatans today. They no longer exist.

p.s., if you and IBDM say how I am Satan, order can be restored to this forum. After all, I threaten your divine nature and should be dealt with accordingly.


ie., if 2 guys suck each others dicks and cum up empty? What are they sucking on?

p.s., am sorry about science getting in the way of a debate.

Edited on 08-01-2021 06:14
08-01-2021 06:59
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
And with what happened in Congress, a failed coup.
08-01-2021 16:32
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Good question Spongy the answer is of course no.CO2 radiates certain light that passes through nitrogen and oxygen.All the energy from the sun is light.We do not get convected heat from that distance


Actually water is very good at absorbing incoming solar IR. But convection requires a substance and not particles. Water vapour is conduction. Just saying.


https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/climatesciencenarratives/its-water-vapor-not-the-co2.html

This kind of raises the question, as O2 decreases and CO2 increases, is this increasing the amount of water vapour in our atmosphere?


Water vapor is water vapor, not conduction.
Water is neither O2 nor CO2. Denial of chemistry.



You weren't in the US Navy.

So?
James___ wrote:
You're still on the Res, your choice.

Nope. Never lived on any reservation.
James___ wrote:
And yes, water vapour moving through atmospheric gasses like N2, O2 and CO2 is conduction.

Nope. It's just water vapor.
James___ wrote:
And if it absorbs more IR, just adding to the conduction.

Nope. Absorption isn't conductive heating.
James___ wrote:
This is if the water vapour comes from the sea.

Water vapor doesn't have a signature about its source.
James___ wrote:
And I think we all know that water vapour comes from bodies of water.

Nope. It not only comes from the seas, lakes, rivers, and snow and ice fields, it comes from grass, bushes, trees, animals, and YOU. That's why ventilation systems are required in houses and buildings. They would be damp all the time without it, because YOU are putting out water vapor with every breath.
James___ wrote:
Chemistry is actually a change in how different atoms/molecules change. With water vapour, it's state is changing but not it's composition. Therefore no chemistry is involved.

Water vapor is not steam.
James___ wrote:
An example of basic chemistry is O forming an ionic bond with another O (oxygen, O) element. Then we have breathable oxygen which is O2. A molecule. Then we have chemistry and life.

You deny chemistry.
James___ wrote:
okay, there's discrimination, etc. and I'm not Powhatan but am descended from Pocahontas.

I don't believe you.
James___ wrote:
Getting her remains returned to a people who don't exist might get people to think a little.
Still, in here you're like my brother and I can't take it easy on you. If I did, they might think I like you.

I don't believe you.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
08-01-2021 16:34
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
James___ wrote:
And with what happened in Congress, a failed coup.
No. The coup by the Democrats was successful.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
08-01-2021 21:31
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(457)
duncan61 wrote:
Good question Spongy the answer is of course no.CO2 radiates certain light that passes through nitrogen and oxygen.All the energy from the sun is light.We do not get convected heat from that distance


Hi Duncan, I think the way it usually works is more CO2 and less O2 absorbs more heat and radiates less heat.


09-01-2021 01:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
Spongy Iris wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Good question Spongy the answer is of course no.CO2 radiates certain light that passes through nitrogen and oxygen.All the energy from the sun is light.We do not get convected heat from that distance


Hi Duncan, I think the way it usually works is more CO2 and less O2 absorbs more heat and radiates less heat.


That violates the Stefan-Boltzmann law and the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Anything that absorbs energy more efficiently also radiates energy more efficiently.
You cannot reduce entropy in any system.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 09-01-2021 01:09
09-01-2021 01:27
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(457)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Good question Spongy the answer is of course no.CO2 radiates certain light that passes through nitrogen and oxygen.All the energy from the sun is light.We do not get convected heat from that distance


Hi Duncan, I think the way it usually works is more CO2 and less O2 absorbs more heat and radiates less heat.


That violates the Stefan-Boltzmann law and the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Anything that absorbs energy more efficiently also radiates energy more efficiently.
You cannot reduce entropy in any system.


Hmm... I was thinking carbon dioxide has a lower specific heat than oxygen under most conditions, takes less heat to raise it's temperature.

Does this mean CO2 is more radiant than O2?

I was also thinking about the difference between a white and black object in the sun. A black object will get hot faster than a white object. But a white object will reflect more light.


09-01-2021 01:33
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
Is this true.Molecules of carbon dioxide (CO2) can absorb energy from infrared (IR) radiation.
09-01-2021 01:44
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(457)
duncan61 wrote:
Is this true.Molecules of carbon dioxide (CO2) can absorb energy from infrared (IR) radiation.


Apparently it is true... But the question is which absorbs more light, CO2 or O2?

I think the answer is CO2 absorbs more light than O2...

Apparently this means it radiates light better too... Not sure but Stefan Boltzmann apparently laid down this law...



Edited on 09-01-2021 01:59
09-01-2021 02:54
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
duncan61 wrote: Is this true.Molecules of carbon dioxide (CO2) can absorb energy from infrared (IR) radiation.

Is it true that a vegemite sandwich can absorb energy from infrared (IR) radiation?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
09-01-2021 04:27
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
IBDM you said bring the hard stuff and yet respond like this.I am sticking to the claim that CO2 can do something to light energy.Radiate absorb have sex with it does something not nothing at all the measurements are all out.On Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy do you recall the bit where the entire battlefleet gets swallowed by a small dog due to a gross underestimation of time and space.Its a bit like that.O NO CO2 can radiate light must be making the planet warmer which is bad.Its doing next to F all and history is and will continue to prove it.I went back to 2015 on this forum and the ice melting claim and tipping points.Where are these people now its all frozen again?
09-01-2021 05:00
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
duncan61 wrote:IBDM you said bring the hard stuff and yet respond like this.


I responded as appropriate. You asked a really stupid question.

You asked whether or not CO2 can absorb infrared as though that was a big deal.

I asked you if a vegemite sandwich can absorb infrared. You didn't answer.

Duncan, do vegemite sandwiches cause Greenhouse Effect? Do they?

Let's assume CO2 absorbs infrared very well. What then? You don't get to claim to have made any point until you actually make a point.

Let's review the 1st law of thermodynamics that you appear to DENY.

* Energy can change form all day, all night, 24/7 however you can never create any more of it.

You are presenting to this board your amazing revelation that energy can change form. Duncan, I have bad news for you. You are centuries too late. Somebody already noticed that.

So, once again, CO2 and vegemite sandwiches absorb infrared, changing infrared electromagnetic energy to thermal energy, per the first law of thermodynamics. So what? Do you have a point or are you wasting bandwidth because it's fun?

1) Are you claiming an increase in earth's average temperature?
2) If so, you STILL have not accounted for the ADDITIONAL energy required to increase the average temperature. [the short answer is that you are claiming that it is somehow created out of nothing]
3) Do vegemite sandwiches cause Greenhosue Effect?
4) Does CO2 have magickal superpowers to defy thermodynamics?

duncan61 wrote: I am sticking to the claim that CO2 can do something to light energy.

Big Fúkking Deal. Lots of matter can convert infrared EM to thermal energy. In fact, all of it can last I checked, even vegemite sandwiches.

duncan61 wrote:On Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy do you recall the bit where the entire battlefleet gets swallowed by a small dog due to a gross underestimation of time and space.

It was a miscalculation of scale.

"Mighty ships tore across the empty wastes of space and finally dived screaming on to the first planet they came across - which happened to be the Earth - where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog"

By chance, yes, I do remember.

duncan61 wrote:O NO CO2 can radiate light must be making the planet warmer which is bad.

Incorrect.

The SUN is radiating all the energy that is warming the earth by virtue of all that energy being absorbed, by CO2, by the ground, by the ocean, by vegemite sandwiches, ... by everything that constitutes "the surface."

duncan61 wrote: Its doing next to F

Which is specifically NOT zero, correct?

Ergo, you are incorrect.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
09-01-2021 16:50
James___
★★★★★
(3701)
IBdaMann wrote:


I asked you if a vegemite sandwich can absorb infrared. You didn't answer.

Duncan, do vegemite sandwiches cause Greenhouse Effect? Do they?




If CH4 (methane) is produced as a result of consumption. Then the answer is yes, vegemite sandwiches can negatively impact the Greenhouse Effect.
09-01-2021 18:52
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3718)
duncan61 wrote:
..., implying net radiative transfer to the object...

I'll assume you're here to have what you want to believe (that AGW isn't happening/possible) confirmed and you've got ITN/IBD to indulge that.

But if you have any questions/challenges for my posts on this thoroughly covered, elementary physics let me know.

https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/max-planck-and-pierre-prevost-on-net-thermal-radiation-and-net-heat-d10-e2793.php

https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference--d10-e2769.php

TWELVE REFERENCES ON BASIC PHYSICS

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
Edited on 09-01-2021 18:53
09-01-2021 19:58
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(457)
Can't seem to get a straight answer, what has more emissivity, CO2 or O2?

We know it takes less heat to raise the temp of CO2 than it does O2.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-capacity-gases-d_159.html

Thus, with constant sunlight, one must assume, if O2 decreases and CO2 increases in the atmosphere, the atmosphere would increase in temperature.

Seems pretty basic. Can the trolls dispute?



Edited on 09-01-2021 20:07
09-01-2021 21:09
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
Spongy Iris wrote:Can't seem to get a straight answer, what has more emissivity, CO2 or O2?

Neither has an emissivity value. Emissivity applies to a "body of matter" and covers all wavelengths.

Materials/substances have absorptivity/radiativity values for specified wavelengths.

Spongy Iris wrote: We know it takes less heat to raise the temp of CO2 than it does O2.

Aahhh, using the word "heat" without having any idea what it means. How amusing.

Hint: A specific amount of energy, not of "heat", is required to increase the temperature of a substance one degree.

Don't you think you should learn what " heat" means BEFORE you use it?

Spongy Iris wrote: Thus, with constant sunlight, one must assume, if O2 decreases and CO2 increases in the atmosphere, the atmosphere would increase in temperature.

Nope. Only a scientifically illiterate moron would assume a violation of physics.

Seems pretty basic. Can the trolls dispute?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
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