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Something Fishy Is Going On


Something Fishy Is Going On28-02-2020 16:56
James___
★★★★★
(2825)
At the same time, the towering dams have proven disastrous for salmon that struggle to navigate past them on human-made fish ladders as they swim upstream to spawn and die after spending most of their lives in the Pacific Ocean. Salmon are unique in that they hatch in freshwater streams and then make their way hundreds of miles to the ocean, where they spend years before finding their way back to their natal streams to mate, lay eggs and die.

Snake River sockeye were the first species in the Columbia River Basin listed under the Endangered Species Act in 1991. Now, 13 salmon runs are listed as federally endangered or threatened. Scientists also warn that southern resident orcas are starving to death because of a dearth of the chinook salmon that are their primary food source.

The Puget Sound population of orcas — also called killer whales — was placed on the endangered species list in 2005. A mother orca that carried her dead baby on her back for 17 days brought international attention in 2018 as their numbers have dwindled to fewer than 80 animals.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/report-assess-removal-4-snake-041006054.html
28-02-2020 20:15
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7036)
James___ wrote:Scientists also warn that southern resident orcas are starving to death because of a dearth of the chinook salmon that are their primary food source.

The Puget Sound population of orcas — also called killer whales — was placed on the endangered species list in 2005. A mother orca that carried her dead baby on her back for 17 days brought international attention in 2018 as their numbers have dwindled to fewer than 80 animals.

This is what can happen if you become overly finicky about what you eat.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-02-2020 20:56
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12771)
James___ wrote:
At the same time, the towering dams have proven disastrous for salmon that struggle to navigate past them on human-made fish ladders as they swim upstream to spawn and die after spending most of their lives in the Pacific Ocean. Salmon are unique in that they hatch in freshwater streams and then make their way hundreds of miles to the ocean, where they spend years before finding their way back to their natal streams to mate, lay eggs and die.

Snake River sockeye were the first species in the Columbia River Basin listed under the Endangered Species Act in 1991. Now, 13 salmon runs are listed as federally endangered or threatened. Scientists also warn that southern resident orcas are starving to death because of a dearth of the chinook salmon that are their primary food source.

The Puget Sound population of orcas — also called killer whales — was placed on the endangered species list in 2005. A mother orca that carried her dead baby on her back for 17 days brought international attention in 2018 as their numbers have dwindled to fewer than 80 animals.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/report-assess-removal-4-snake-041006054.html


Orcas in Puget Sound are no different than orcas in the Pacific ocean. They eat pretty much anything (not just Chinook salmon, which are actually doing okay). Quite a few orcas in Puget Sound were caught and shipped to aquarium shows in the past.

Federal endangered species lists are based largely on manufacturing different 'species' simply by where they happen to live, or are completely lies, such as the 'endangered' spotted owl.

(Counting only the owls in old growth forests is a misnomer. These owls do not like to live in old growth forests.)


The Parrot Killer
28-02-2020 23:23
James___
★★★★★
(2825)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
At the same time, the towering dams have proven disastrous for salmon that struggle to navigate past them on human-made fish ladders as they swim upstream to spawn and die after spending most of their lives in the Pacific Ocean. Salmon are unique in that they hatch in freshwater streams and then make their way hundreds of miles to the ocean, where they spend years before finding their way back to their natal streams to mate, lay eggs and die.

Snake River sockeye were the first species in the Columbia River Basin listed under the Endangered Species Act in 1991. Now, 13 salmon runs are listed as federally endangered or threatened. Scientists also warn that southern resident orcas are starving to death because of a dearth of the chinook salmon that are their primary food source.

The Puget Sound population of orcas — also called killer whales — was placed on the endangered species list in 2005. A mother orca that carried her dead baby on her back for 17 days brought international attention in 2018 as their numbers have dwindled to fewer than 80 animals.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/report-assess-removal-4-snake-041006054.html


Orcas in Puget Sound are no different than orcas in the Pacific ocean. They eat pretty much anything (not just Chinook salmon, which are actually doing okay). Quite a few orcas in Puget Sound were caught and shipped to aquarium shows in the past.

Federal endangered species lists are based largely on manufacturing different 'species' simply by where they happen to live, or are completely lies, such as the 'endangered' spotted owl.

(Counting only the owls in old growth forests is a misnomer. These owls do not like to live in old growth forests.)



So what you're saying is just don't trust anyone who lives or works in Washington..........state, okay.
29-02-2020 00:41
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7036)
James___ wrote: So what you're saying is just don't trust anyone who lives or works in Washington..........state, okay.


You're not supposed to take him literally. I'm sure he means anyone from the Pacific Northwest.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-02-2020 01:05
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12771)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
At the same time, the towering dams have proven disastrous for salmon that struggle to navigate past them on human-made fish ladders as they swim upstream to spawn and die after spending most of their lives in the Pacific Ocean. Salmon are unique in that they hatch in freshwater streams and then make their way hundreds of miles to the ocean, where they spend years before finding their way back to their natal streams to mate, lay eggs and die.

Snake River sockeye were the first species in the Columbia River Basin listed under the Endangered Species Act in 1991. Now, 13 salmon runs are listed as federally endangered or threatened. Scientists also warn that southern resident orcas are starving to death because of a dearth of the chinook salmon that are their primary food source.

The Puget Sound population of orcas — also called killer whales — was placed on the endangered species list in 2005. A mother orca that carried her dead baby on her back for 17 days brought international attention in 2018 as their numbers have dwindled to fewer than 80 animals.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/report-assess-removal-4-snake-041006054.html


Orcas in Puget Sound are no different than orcas in the Pacific ocean. They eat pretty much anything (not just Chinook salmon, which are actually doing okay). Quite a few orcas in Puget Sound were caught and shipped to aquarium shows in the past.

Federal endangered species lists are based largely on manufacturing different 'species' simply by where they happen to live, or are completely lies, such as the 'endangered' spotted owl.

(Counting only the owls in old growth forests is a misnomer. These owls do not like to live in old growth forests.)



So what you're saying is just don't trust anyone who lives or works in Washington..........state, okay.


Where did I say that???


The Parrot Killer
29-02-2020 03:01
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2056)
Florida killer whales are doing fine. Baby Shamu isn't a baby anymore. Don't remember what the named the last born, breed like rabbits down here.

You do realize that predators follow the food... If the are feeding good, no reason to move on.

Wasn't it just last year, that salmon fishing was the best it's been, something like 12 years?
29-02-2020 03:36
James___
★★★★★
(2825)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
At the same time, the towering dams have proven disastrous for salmon that struggle to navigate past them on human-made fish ladders as they swim upstream to spawn and die after spending most of their lives in the Pacific Ocean. Salmon are unique in that they hatch in freshwater streams and then make their way hundreds of miles to the ocean, where they spend years before finding their way back to their natal streams to mate, lay eggs and die.

Snake River sockeye were the first species in the Columbia River Basin listed under the Endangered Species Act in 1991. Now, 13 salmon runs are listed as federally endangered or threatened. Scientists also warn that southern resident orcas are starving to death because of a dearth of the chinook salmon that are their primary food source.

The Puget Sound population of orcas — also called killer whales — was placed on the endangered species list in 2005. A mother orca that carried her dead baby on her back for 17 days brought international attention in 2018 as their numbers have dwindled to fewer than 80 animals.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/report-assess-removal-4-snake-041006054.html


Orcas in Puget Sound are no different than orcas in the Pacific ocean. They eat pretty much anything (not just Chinook salmon, which are actually doing okay). Quite a few orcas in Puget Sound were caught and shipped to aquarium shows in the past.

Federal endangered species lists are based largely on manufacturing different 'species' simply by where they happen to live, or are completely lies, such as the 'endangered' spotted owl.

(Counting only the owls in old growth forests is a misnomer. These owls do not like to live in old growth forests.)



So what you're saying is just don't trust anyone who lives or works in Washington..........state, okay.


Where did I say that???



You said if someone lives east of the Salish Sea they are not to be trusted. You live east of the Salish Sea, right?
Breeding is easy, living isn't. 2 different things. With coho salmon and orcas, not the same but different.
29-02-2020 03:37
James___
★★★★★
(2825)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Florida killer whales are doing fine. Baby Shamu isn't a baby anymore. Don't remember what the named the last born, breed like rabbits down here.

You do realize that predators follow the food... If the are feeding good, no reason to move on.

Wasn't it just last year, that salmon fishing was the best it's been, something like 12 years?



Maybe if you got to know ITN you could learn something from him?
29-02-2020 08:41
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2056)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Florida killer whales are doing fine. Baby Shamu isn't a baby anymore. Don't remember what the named the last born, breed like rabbits down here.

You do realize that predators follow the food... If the are feeding good, no reason to move on.

Wasn't it just last year, that salmon fishing was the best it's been, something like 12 years?



Maybe if you got to know ITN you could learn something from him?


Oh, I was mistaken... It was Oregon and California that had the great salmon season last year. Washington should have voted for Trump, then they could be Great, like the rest of the country.
29-02-2020 09:00
James___
★★★★★
(2825)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Florida killer whales are doing fine. Baby Shamu isn't a baby anymore. Don't remember what the named the last born, breed like rabbits down here.

You do realize that predators follow the food... If the are feeding good, no reason to move on.

Wasn't it just last year, that salmon fishing was the best it's been, something like 12 years?



Maybe if you got to know ITN you could learn something from him?


Oh, I was mistaken... It was Oregon and California that had the great salmon season last year. Washington should have voted for Trump, then they could be Great, like the rest of the country.



And without Trump, it's sad that you don't get it Harvey. The first 2 years of his presidency, nothing happened because Senator Mitch McConnell let nothing happen.
The trade war with China is Trump attacking Mitch McConnell's family. McConnell represents my state. He and his wife Elaine Chao are taking America in a "New Direction".
President Trump cannot seat a judge, pass a law or pass a budget. He can only approve of Senator Mitch McConnell doing that.
Putin is changing the Russian Constitution so once out of office as president he can have McConnell's power in America.
Trump is a nobody. He has no power. He can launch a trade war against the Senate Majority leader but that is about it.
And please remember, I live in Kentucky. I know what our esteemed leader, Senate Majority Leader McConnell is doing. He is shaping America in his image, the Democratic Republic of China.
29-02-2020 09:10
James___
★★★★★
(2825)
I'll give you an easy out on this Harvey. If we drain the rivers for fresh water, there won't be no salmon. Problem solved. Next would be your enjoying soy hamburgers and soy shakes with soy fries. Soybeans are one of the easiest crops to grow. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/vegetables/soybean/soybean-growing-information.htm
If we don't protect the environment, we do have alternatives. I hope you like this Harvey. It is what you are promoting.
And Harvey, I absolutely love this. Americans prefer soy protein to a healthy environment. I mean really, who could buy this type of support for recycling or conservationism? Protect the environment or go soy!
Money simply can't buy this type of promo.
Edited on 29-02-2020 09:13
29-02-2020 15:45
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2056)
James___ wrote:
I'll give you an easy out on this Harvey. If we drain the rivers for fresh water, there won't be no salmon. Problem solved. Next would be your enjoying soy hamburgers and soy shakes with soy fries. Soybeans are one of the easiest crops to grow. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/vegetables/soybean/soybean-growing-information.htm
If we don't protect the environment, we do have alternatives. I hope you like this Harvey. It is what you are promoting.
And Harvey, I absolutely love this. Americans prefer soy protein to a healthy environment. I mean really, who could buy this type of support for recycling or conservationism? Protect the environment or go soy!
Money simply can't buy this type of promo.


Fresh water falls from the sky, rivers won't dry out, we aren't going to run out. 80% of the planet surface is water. Humidity is usually pretty high in Florida, my condensation pump on my AC unit runs a lot, and that's a byproduct of cooling my home. I doubt it would be too difficult, to extract water from the humid air intentionally, on a larger scale.

You do realize than man isn't the only predator on the planet, that over hunts? There can be many reason why the salmon run was weak. Fish hatcheries release the young salmon when they are small. Not all of them make it out to the ocean. Other fish and animals learn the schedule over the years too, easy feast. They also know when the adults return to spawn.

I grew up in the northwest, not all rivers a suitable for dams. They can't completely stop the flow of water. The run off from mountain snow melt needs to go some place. It rains a lot in Oregon, and rain doesn't soak into rock very quick, needs to go some place. I don't see your fear of fresh water, there is is always plenty, and refreshed often. Water management evolves with a need. Change comes when the need exceeds the supply. Demand keeps prices high, so there is no incentive to those getting rich, to increase supply, as long as they have all they can sell.
29-02-2020 18:50
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12771)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
At the same time, the towering dams have proven disastrous for salmon that struggle to navigate past them on human-made fish ladders as they swim upstream to spawn and die after spending most of their lives in the Pacific Ocean. Salmon are unique in that they hatch in freshwater streams and then make their way hundreds of miles to the ocean, where they spend years before finding their way back to their natal streams to mate, lay eggs and die.

Snake River sockeye were the first species in the Columbia River Basin listed under the Endangered Species Act in 1991. Now, 13 salmon runs are listed as federally endangered or threatened. Scientists also warn that southern resident orcas are starving to death because of a dearth of the chinook salmon that are their primary food source.

The Puget Sound population of orcas — also called killer whales — was placed on the endangered species list in 2005. A mother orca that carried her dead baby on her back for 17 days brought international attention in 2018 as their numbers have dwindled to fewer than 80 animals.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/report-assess-removal-4-snake-041006054.html


Orcas in Puget Sound are no different than orcas in the Pacific ocean. They eat pretty much anything (not just Chinook salmon, which are actually doing okay). Quite a few orcas in Puget Sound were caught and shipped to aquarium shows in the past.

Federal endangered species lists are based largely on manufacturing different 'species' simply by where they happen to live, or are completely lies, such as the 'endangered' spotted owl.

(Counting only the owls in old growth forests is a misnomer. These owls do not like to live in old growth forests.)



So what you're saying is just don't trust anyone who lives or works in Washington..........state, okay.


Where did I say that???



You said if someone lives east of the Salish Sea they are not to be trusted. You live east of the Salish Sea, right?

Never said any such thing, James.
James___ wrote:
Breeding is easy, living isn't.

Living is pretty easy for 'em.
James___ wrote:
2 different things. With coho salmon and orcas, not the same but different.

Coho salmon are doing pretty well around here. Orcas eat a lot more than just salmon.


The Parrot Killer
29-02-2020 18:51
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12771)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Florida killer whales are doing fine. Baby Shamu isn't a baby anymore. Don't remember what the named the last born, breed like rabbits down here.

You do realize that predators follow the food... If the are feeding good, no reason to move on.

Wasn't it just last year, that salmon fishing was the best it's been, something like 12 years?



Maybe if you got to know ITN you could learn something from him?


I would say he already did. He understands that orcas are not endangered.


The Parrot Killer
29-02-2020 18:53
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12771)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Florida killer whales are doing fine. Baby Shamu isn't a baby anymore. Don't remember what the named the last born, breed like rabbits down here.

You do realize that predators follow the food... If the are feeding good, no reason to move on.

Wasn't it just last year, that salmon fishing was the best it's been, something like 12 years?



Maybe if you got to know ITN you could learn something from him?


Oh, I was mistaken... It was Oregon and California that had the great salmon season last year. Washington should have voted for Trump, then they could be Great, like the rest of the country.

Eastern Washington did. So did a lot of outlying counties on the West side. Seattle, Tacoma, and Everett voted for Hillary, but they really wanted Bernie. Well see if they get shafted again!


A classic case of a justification of the electoral college as there ever was.

It really is a city vs country war.


The Parrot Killer
29-02-2020 19:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12771)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Florida killer whales are doing fine. Baby Shamu isn't a baby anymore. Don't remember what the named the last born, breed like rabbits down here.

You do realize that predators follow the food... If the are feeding good, no reason to move on.

Wasn't it just last year, that salmon fishing was the best it's been, something like 12 years?



Maybe if you got to know ITN you could learn something from him?


Oh, I was mistaken... It was Oregon and California that had the great salmon season last year. Washington should have voted for Trump, then they could be Great, like the rest of the country.



And without Trump, it's sad that you don't get it Harvey. The first 2 years of his presidency, nothing happened because Senator Mitch McConnell let nothing happen.

He rolled back a fair amount of Obamacare crap. He reduced income taxes across the board. He expanded and improved the wall with Mexico. He started negotiations to restructure NAFTA (ultimately successful). He got North Korea to stop sending missiles over Japan and toward Hawaii. That and other accomplishments was just the first two years.
James___ wrote:
The trade war with China is Trump attacking Mitch McConnell's family. McConnell represents my state. He and his wife Elaine Chao are taking America in a "New Direction".
President Trump cannot seat a judge, pass a law or pass a budget. He can only approve of Senator Mitch McConnell doing that.

The trade war with China resulted in China losing, and finally being forced to the negotiating table, where they can have these import taxes lifted if they sign a treaty (and hold to it) where they don't steal technology anymore, and where they import from the United States. Mitch was not affected.
James___ wrote:
Putin is changing the Russian Constitution

Russia doesn't have a constitution.
James___ wrote:
so once out of office as president he can have McConnell's power in America.

Putin isn't a citizen.
James___ wrote:
Trump is a nobody. He has no power. He can launch a trade war against the Senate Majority leader but that is about it.

There is no trade with the Senate majority leader and there is no trade war with him.
James___ wrote:
And please remember, I live in Kentucky. I know what our esteemed leader, Senate Majority Leader McConnell is doing. He is shaping America in his image, the Democratic Republic of China.

China isn't a republic or a democracy. It is an oligarchy.


The Parrot Killer
01-03-2020 06:50
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2056)
Thought China was communist...

Back to the fish story... I don't think killer whales settle, they move around quite a bit. Maybe there are fewer, because Puget Sound isn't working for them anymore. Maybe Washington started dumping raw sewage, and others stuff in there again. Maybe they got tired of being hit by large boats, sometimes intentionally. The poor salmon run, has to be that they were slacking off at the fish hatcheries. Oregon and California had there best season in a decade or more. Should have been any different for Washington. Most of the comercial salmon fishing is done in the ocean.
01-03-2020 21:35
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12771)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Thought China was communist...

It is. Communism can only be implemented by an oligarchy or dictatorship. China is an oligarchy, and a communist country.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Back to the fish story... I don't think killer whales settle, they move around quite a bit. Maybe there are fewer, because Puget Sound isn't working for them anymore.

Quite right. There are no 'Puget Sound orcas', because they wander in and out of the sound. There is food here, but better food is in the ocean, particularly near a shoreline where the surf isn't too great.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Maybe Washington started dumping raw sewage, and others stuff in there again.

Nope. My family helped to get Metro started. I myself built and maintain instrumentation at these treatment plants. The nearest city dumping raw sewage into the ocean is Victoria, B.C.

Oh, and orcas can be seen offshore from there also.

HarveyH55 wrote:
Maybe they got tired of being hit by large boats, sometimes intentionally.

Hitting an orca with a both WILL damage the boat, perhaps enough to sink it.

I did know of one seaplane pilot that was making his takeoff run when a blue whale surface right in front of him. He launched the plane right off the back of the thing, just as it was blowing water from it's blowhole. The whale probably had no idea what that thing that skied off it's back even was!
The whale was undamaged, and submerged again after the plane was in the air.

HarveyH55 wrote:
The poor salmon run, has to be that they were slacking off at the fish hatcheries.

The salmon run is actually doing pretty well. The fish hatcheries have to tag the salmon they release because they aren't 'natural'.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Oregon and California had there best season in a decade or more.

Washington has been getting good runs of late also.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Should have been any different for Washington.

It really isn't.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Most of the commercial salmon fishing is done in the ocean.

True, especially up north where there is colder water and more food for the salmon. You can get some BIG ones up there!

The various indian tribes hunt for salmon in Puget Sound and use nets in the Columbia river for them.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 01-03-2020 21:39




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