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Shorter Freeze Times


Shorter Freeze Times29-10-2017 03:40
GreenMan
★★★☆☆
(661)
A study was recently released that is hard to dispute even with technicalities like accuracy related to measuring equipment. How about using the length of time between the first frost of the fall and the last frost of the spring as a benchmark to actually measure Climate Change? They were recording such things hundreds of years ago, and it's not like the accuracy of their thermometer has anything to do with it. Was there frost on the ground? Yes, it froze last night. No, it did not freeze last night. Ok, it does have to do with the dew point too, and other conditions have to be just right, so it can be below freezing and not frost. But one thing is for sure, it never frosts when it is above freezing.

The length of time between first and last frosts has shrunk by about a month, on average, since 1916.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a28819/winter-climate-change/?ref=yfp Said: Overall the United States freeze season of 2016 was more than a month shorter than the freeze season of 1916. It was most extreme in the Pacific Northwest. Oregon's freeze season was 61 days — two months — shorter than normal.


There are some short term benefits from that, but the long term implications outweigh the profit made by an order of magnitude. The problem is, Time Marches On.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0-EBbYKA-uU

It doesn't stop getting shorter, until there is no freeze in winter. There is no winter.

Think. We know what is doing it. We know what we have to do.


~*~ GreenMan ~*~

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/leftbehind/index.php
29-10-2017 17:03
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
GreenMan wrote: Climate Change....was most extreme in the Pacific Northwest.

Yeah, our mid-western Washington state winter morning time temperatures are widely & wildly warmer, not just in the cities but away from city heat engines..... even with the cold Canadian Fraser River backflow that sweeps over the Salish Sea (Puget Sound), at times. When I was a kid, I always looked forward to the sub-zero degF days..... hey, my family dressed me warmly & I wasn't paying the heat bills. If any kids want sub-zero degF days now, they'll have to convince their parents to move NORTH, EAST &/OR TO HIGHER ELEVATIONS.
Edited on 29-10-2017 17:18
29-10-2017 20:04
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8166)
GreenMan wrote:
A study was recently released that is hard to dispute even with technicalities like accuracy related to measuring equipment. How about using the length of time between the first frost of the fall and the last frost of the spring as a benchmark to actually measure Climate Change?

Because if varies widely depending on where you measure it, and it is subject to the same math errors you make with measuring the global temperature.
GreenMan wrote:
They were recording such things hundreds of years ago, and it's not like the accuracy of their thermometer has anything to do with it.

No, but the math error you are making is the same.
GreenMan wrote:
Was there frost on the ground? Yes, it froze last night. No, it did not freeze last night. Ok, it does have to do with the dew point too, and other conditions have to be just right, so it can be below freezing and not frost. But one thing is for sure, it never frosts when it is above freezing.

The length of time between first and last frosts has shrunk by about a month, on average, since 1916.
...deleted Holy Link and Quote...

You don't know that. Argument from randU. Also, why is 1916 significant? Why is any other year as a starting point NOT significant?
GreenMan wrote:
There are some short term benefits from that, but the long term implications outweigh the profit made by an order of magnitude. The problem is, Time Marches On.

...deleted Holy Link...

It doesn't stop getting shorter, until there is no freeze in winter. There is no winter.

Think. We know what is doing it. We know what we have to do.

I'll let you build the first part of that particular paradox in the Church of Global Warming here. The second usually appears every winter around January when people like you point to some heavy snowstorm as evidence of 'global warming'.


The Parrot Killer
29-10-2017 20:10
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8166)
litesong wrote:
GreenMan wrote: Climate Change....was most extreme in the Pacific Northwest.

Yeah, our mid-western Washington state winter morning time temperatures are widely & wildly warmer, not just in the cities but away from city heat engines..... even with the cold Canadian Fraser River backflow that sweeps over the Salish Sea (Puget Sound), at times. When I was a kid, I always looked forward to the sub-zero degF days..... hey, my family dressed me warmly & I wasn't paying the heat bills. If any kids want sub-zero degF days now, they'll have to convince their parents to move NORTH, EAST &/OR TO HIGHER ELEVATIONS.


What part of the Pacific NW do you live in again? It is extremely rare to see subzero temperatures in the Puget Sound region! Have you no concept of how stupid you sound?


The Parrot Killer
29-10-2017 20:50
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" wrote: It is extremely rare to see subzero temperatures in the Puget Sound region!

As stated, "when I was a kid"..... we would occasionally had sub-zero degF days. I did look forward to them. As you state (& I did, too), we don't get them now.
Thank you to "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" for agreeing that Earth temperatures are warming.
Edited on 29-10-2017 20:52
29-10-2017 22:37
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8166)
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" wrote: It is extremely rare to see subzero temperatures in the Puget Sound region!

As stated, "when I was a kid"..... we would occasionally had sub-zero degF days. I did look forward to them. As you state (& I did, too), we don't get them now.
Thank you to "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" for agreeing that Earth temperatures are warming.


Then you weren't a kid around here!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

The last time Puget Sound experienced a sub-zero temperature day was way the hell back in 1950!


The Parrot Killer
30-10-2017 01:21
GreenMan
★★★☆☆
(661)
Into the Night wrote:
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" wrote: It is extremely rare to see subzero temperatures in the Puget Sound region!

As stated, "when I was a kid"..... we would occasionally had sub-zero degF days. I did look forward to them. As you state (& I did, too), we don't get them now.
Thank you to "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" for agreeing that Earth temperatures are warming.


Then you weren't a kid around here!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

The last time Puget Sound experienced a sub-zero temperature day was way the hell back in 1950!


You know you have a good point, when your principle adversary goes after an innocent comment and commenter, instead of the point. And as litesong said, you are actually saying that you know it is getting warmer where you are.

I'm thinking litesong is correct. I also spent a part of my childhood growing up in the greatest of states. I live in Humptulips during my first year in school. I clearly recall a lot of snow on the ground that winter. So it was obviously sub-freezing then, and that was in the 60's.

But here is another graph that shows the temperature of the Puget Sound region [even though we were talking about the northwest, and not necessarily Puget Sound].



Looks like the early 50's were kinda cool, compared to the rest of the chart, if you overlook the early 70's. I'm thinking that was when litesong was a kid.


~*~ GreenMan ~*~

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/leftbehind/index.php
30-10-2017 03:03
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
GreenMan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" wrote: It is extremely rare to see subzero temperatures in the Puget Sound region!

As stated, "when I was a kid"..... we would occasionally had sub-zero degF days. I did look forward to them. As you state (& I did, too), we don't get them now.
Thank you to "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" for agreeing that Earth temperatures are warming.

The last time Puget Sound experienced a sub-zero temperature day was way the hell back in 1950!
.... litesong is correct. I also spent a part of my childhood growing up in the greatest of states. I live in Humptulips....obviously sub-freezing then, and that was in the 60's.

Yeah, my childhood was cold. From a blurb: ".... Bothell in Seattle's north end reported an unofficial reading of 10 below zero, and Pine Lake, just east of Lake Sammamish, reported an unofficial reading of 11 below zero."......Even Snoqualmie Falls froze, only admitting a small stream of liquid water.
Our hi school baseball uniforms were wool & that was sweet on those cold March & April days.
///////
But my grandparents witnessed even colder weather in many winters in the late 1800's. Many people had ice skates to have some fun on the deeply frozen lakes during many cold winters & vehicles often drove on such. As for my winters, I only remember driving on a frozen lake once... & that was at about 1000 foot elevation, in minor mtns bordering on the main western Cascade Mountains.
Edited on 30-10-2017 03:51
30-10-2017 18:55
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8166)
litesong wrote:
GreenMan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" wrote: It is extremely rare to see subzero temperatures in the Puget Sound region!

As stated, "when I was a kid"..... we would occasionally had sub-zero degF days. I did look forward to them. As you state (& I did, too), we don't get them now.
Thank you to "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" for agreeing that Earth temperatures are warming.

The last time Puget Sound experienced a sub-zero temperature day was way the hell back in 1950!
.... litesong is correct. I also spent a part of my childhood growing up in the greatest of states. I live in Humptulips....obviously sub-freezing then, and that was in the 60's.

Yeah, my childhood was cold. From a blurb: ".... Bothell in Seattle's north end reported an unofficial reading of 10 below zero, and Pine Lake, just east of Lake Sammamish, reported an unofficial reading of 11 below zero."......Even Snoqualmie Falls froze, only admitting a small stream of liquid water.
Our hi school baseball uniforms were wool & that was sweet on those cold March & April days.
///////
But my grandparents witnessed even colder weather in many winters in the late 1800's. Many people had ice skates to have some fun on the deeply frozen lakes during many cold winters & vehicles often drove on such. As for my winters, I only remember driving on a frozen lake once... & that was at about 1000 foot elevation, in minor mtns bordering on the main western Cascade Mountains.


I still skate on lakes up near the mountains. That still happens. Doesn't have to get to subzero temperatures for that!

The low temperature in 1950 was a record. That means it is unusual, dumbass.
There is no record of anywhere in Puget sound getting to 10 below zero!


The Parrot Killer
30-10-2017 18:57
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8166)
GreenMan wrote:
I'm thinking litesong is correct. I also spent a part of my childhood growing up in the greatest of states. I live in Humptulips during my first year in school. I clearly recall a lot of snow on the ground that winter. So it was obviously sub-freezing then, and that was in the 60's.


Water freezes at 32 degF, not zero degF, dumbass.

We still get a lot of snow in some years. Nothing has changed there, either.


The Parrot Killer
31-10-2017 02:49
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
[b]Into the Night wrote: I still skate on lakes up near the mountains. That still happens.... There is no record of anywhere in Puget sound getting to 10 below zero!
No official record, but...
.... "Bothell in Seattle's north end reported an unofficial reading of 10 below zero, and Pine Lake, just east of Lake Sammamish, reported an unofficial reading of 11 below zero."
///////
.....vehicles often drove on such(iced lakes). I only remember driving on a frozen lake once...
Did you ever drive a 2 ton vehicle on an iced lake?
31-10-2017 07:15
GreenMan
★★★☆☆
(661)
Into the Night wrote:
GreenMan wrote:
I'm thinking litesong is correct. I also spent a part of my childhood growing up in the greatest of states. I live in Humptulips during my first year in school. I clearly recall a lot of snow on the ground that winter. So it was obviously sub-freezing then, and that was in the 60's.


Water freezes at 32 degF, not zero degF, dumbass.

We still get a lot of snow in some years. Nothing has changed there, either.


Oh, I see that now. I was talking about sub-freezing, and litesong went into sub-zero. I don't know about sub-zero, but I think you are right about that. It wasn't that cold when I lived there in the 60s. But then again, I was a little kid, and didn't even care what temperature was. All I knew was too hot or too cold.

But if litesong recalls it being sub-zero, then it probably was. You don't know, any more than I do.


~*~ GreenMan ~*~

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/leftbehind/index.php
31-03-2018 02:03
Wake
★★★★★
(4026)
GreenMan wrote:
A study was recently released that is hard to dispute even with technicalities like accuracy related to measuring equipment. How about using the length of time between the first frost of the fall and the last frost of the spring as a benchmark to actually measure Climate Change? They were recording such things hundreds of years ago, and it's not like the accuracy of their thermometer has anything to do with it. Was there frost on the ground? Yes, it froze last night. No, it did not freeze last night. Ok, it does have to do with the dew point too, and other conditions have to be just right, so it can be below freezing and not frost. But one thing is for sure, it never frosts when it is above freezing.

The length of time between first and last frosts has shrunk by about a month, on average, since 1916.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a28819/winter-climate-change/?ref=yfp Said: Overall the United States freeze season of 2016 was more than a month shorter than the freeze season of 1916. It was most extreme in the Pacific Northwest. Oregon's freeze season was 61 days — two months — shorter than normal.


There are some short term benefits from that, but the long term implications outweigh the profit made by an order of magnitude. The problem is, Time Marches On.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0-EBbYKA-uU

It doesn't stop getting shorter, until there is no freeze in winter. There is no winter.

Think. We know what is doing it. We know what we have to do.


I will give you a suggestion: Do not accept articles in Popular Mechanics as science. Saying that the times between the first and last frost is virtually meaningless.

Why? Because the year to year variations are 100 times larger than the so-called change in average times. This isn't any sort of science to rely on.

Would you think that we should use the times between first and last frost during the Little Ice Age as some sort of measurement?

Adding to that, using the Pacific Northwest as a measurement has to really be the oddest thing ever. Jan 13, 2017 was the coldest day ever recorded in Portland while Jan 13, 2018 the warmest of that date. Playing hopscotch with statistics you don't understand helps no one and nothing.




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