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23-11-2020 19:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
The Greenland ice mass is increasing. That much is settled.
It would seem the world disagrees with you. Citation please.

settled
adjective
agreed upon; decided:

So nope, not settled.


RQAA. Semantics fallacy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 23-11-2020 19:30
24-11-2020 02:09
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3718)
IBdaMann wrote:
The Greenland ice sheet itself is my citation.
When did you go and what was your method of measuring?

Or was this knowledge based on the oral tradition you're so fond of?

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
Edited on 24-11-2020 02:10
24-11-2020 03:25
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
The Greenland ice sheet itself is my citation.
When did you go and what was your method of measuring?

Or was this knowledge based on the oral tradition you're so fond of?


RQAA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
26-11-2020 09:20
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
I would like to put something out there.I know if a glass or Esky has one tiny speck of ice in it the water can not be over 1 degree C.It must be less or there would be no ice.I see people in summer tipping the cold water out their Eskies and putting fresh ice on warm beer.If the water is at less than one degree you should put the 30 degree beer in it.In about 20 minutes the beer and water will be around 15 degrees now when the fresh ice is put on the beer it wont all melt in 5 minutes.The ice in chunks you get from roadhouses is around 4-5 minus.I personaly freeze down my own 1.25L ice bottles and if left in a domestic freezer it can get down to minus 21 which obviously has a lot more potential energy and the water can be used when it is all melted.The Antarctic bottom water with temperatures ranging from −0.8 to 2 °C (35 °F), Is cold as.I am sure it is direct sunlight that thaws the ice in summer not water temp
26-11-2020 17:02
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2919)
All I know is there are a hell of a lot of things going on with this planet, that never stop, never pause, for people to take measurements, make adjustments, run the data through a computer model. People. have a much narrower focus, and only look a few things that interest them, or seem relevant. We really can't fully grasp what all is happening in the world at an single moment, and yet, we are obsessed with things that might have happened in the past, or will happen in the future. We can't change the past, and very little we can change for the furure.
26-11-2020 21:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
duncan61 wrote:
I would like to put something out there.I know if a glass or Esky has one tiny speck of ice in it the water can not be over 1 degree C.It must be less or there would be no ice.I see people in summer tipping the cold water out their Eskies and putting fresh ice on warm beer.If the water is at less than one degree you should put the 30 degree beer in it.In about 20 minutes the beer and water will be around 15 degrees now when the fresh ice is put on the beer it wont all melt in 5 minutes.The ice in chunks you get from roadhouses is around 4-5 minus.I personaly freeze down my own 1.25L ice bottles and if left in a domestic freezer it can get down to minus 21 which obviously has a lot more potential energy and the water can be used when it is all melted.The Antarctic bottom water with temperatures ranging from −0.8 to 2 °C (35 °F), Is cold as.I am sure it is direct sunlight that thaws the ice in summer not water temp


You can toss an ice cube into a cup of hot soup, but that doesn't mean the soup is below freezing.

It does mean the thermal energy of the soup is dissipating into the ice. Combined, the soup/ice combination has the same average temperature as when the hot soup melts the ice and the temperature is uniform throughout the soup (ignoring losses to the room).

Think of the newly introduced ice cube into the hot soup as minimal entropy. As entropy increases, the ice melts and the soup is cooled. The soup is heating the ice, melting it into water. The lukewarm soup that has completely melted the ice is a maximum entropy.

During this entire process, energy is neither being created nor destroyed. It is simply spreading uniformly throughout the soup.

Yes, the Sun melts polar ice each summer. Weak as it is, it's up all day and all night. Despite the glancing angle, it's enough to melt quite a bit of ice each year.

Bets are made in northern Alaska on when the ice breakup begins each spring. Seals use it to get away from the polar bears, which will be coming out hibernation soon...and hungry.

Of course, polar bears can swim, and they can swim quite well. Polar bears will swim miles out to sea in search of seals to eat. The females face an especial problem, since they have cubs to feed as well and those cubs cannot swim so far. They are limited to other food and lazy seals that didn't head out to icebergs for safety.

The polar bears are increasing in number in everywhere but Alaska, where the population is somewhat stable, but declines from time to time as the bears move east into Canada to feed.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
26-11-2020 21:36
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
HarveyH55 wrote:
All I know is there are a hell of a lot of things going on with this planet, that never stop, never pause, for people to take measurements, make adjustments, run the data through a computer model. People. have a much narrower focus, and only look a few things that interest them, or seem relevant. We really can't fully grasp what all is happening in the world at an single moment, and yet, we are obsessed with things that might have happened in the past, or will happen in the future. We can't change the past, and very little we can change for the furure.


You are quite right. Time is a significant biasing factor when attempting to measure a temperature. Storms move. Earth spins causing the Sun to appear to move across the sky, Land and sea are unevenly heated.

To measure the temperature of the Earth, the influence of time must be removed. All thermometers must be read at the same time by the same authority, and that measurement would be good only for that instant in time.

The other biasing factor that must be removed, of course, is location grouping. Thermometers are not placed uniformly across the surface of Earth. A dozen thermometers in a city tell you nothing about a point just a few miles away. Temperature can vary easily as much as 20 deg F per mile.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 26-11-2020 21:39
27-11-2020 00:34
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3718)
HarveyH55 wrote:...We really can't fully grasp what all is happening in the world at an single moment, and yet, we are obsessed with things that might have happened in the past, or will happen in the future....
You sound as though you think humanity has been ineffective in accomplishing anything with knowledge of the world around us. Of course we're obsessed with figuring out our universe it's where all the profit and loss is.

Your quote literally would only 1/2 make sense several thousand years ago as a challenge to the village astrologer. Now it's absurdly dismissive of how effective science and technology have been.
27-11-2020 01:28
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...We really can't fully grasp what all is happening in the world at an single moment, and yet, we are obsessed with things that might have happened in the past, or will happen in the future....
You sound as though you think humanity has been ineffective in accomplishing anything with knowledge of the world around us.

Void statement.
tmiddles wrote:
Of course we're obsessed with figuring out our universe it's where all the profit and loss is.

There is no profit and loss of the universe.
tmiddles wrote:
Your quote literally would only 1/2 make sense several thousand years ago as a challenge to the village astrologer. Now it's absurdly dismissive of how effective science and technology have been.

You deny science. You deny technology too.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
27-11-2020 05:15
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...We really can't fully grasp what all is happening in the world at an single moment, and yet, we are obsessed with things that might have happened in the past, or will happen in the future....
You sound as though you think humanity has been ineffective in accomplishing anything with knowledge of the world around us. Of course we're obsessed with figuring out our universe it's where all the profit and loss is.

Your quote literally would only 1/2 make sense several thousand years ago as a challenge to the village astrologer. Now it's absurdly dismissive of how effective science and technology have been.


What I am getting from Harvey is it is a bit more complicated than the simple more CO2 creates more warming and that is bad Mkaay


duncan61
27-11-2020 06:28
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3718)
duncan61 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:...we're obsessed with figuring out our universe it's where all the profit and loss is...

What I am getting from Harvey is it is a bit more complicated than the simple more CO2 creates more warming and that is bad Mkaay

Just because something is complicated and difficult to figure out, at this time, doesn't make it false.

200 years ago when a physician argued for the theory that a surgeon not washing their hands caused infections in patients they struggled to prove their point. Some might dismiss their theory by actually concluding that because they couldn't conclusively demonstrate that it was true, it must be false.
"In the spring of 1850, Semmelweis took the stage at the prestigious Vienna Medical Society and extolled the virtues of hand washing to a crowd of doctors. ... Historians believe they also rejected his theory because it blamed them for their patients' deaths."link

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
Edited on 27-11-2020 06:29
27-11-2020 08:01
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
Do you have an issue with more CO2 means warming and thats bad.I have just been surfing the vibe and they have turned C/C in to a social meetup site
27-11-2020 10:50
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:...we're obsessed with figuring out our universe it's where all the profit and loss is...

What I am getting from Harvey is it is a bit more complicated than the simple more CO2 creates more warming and that is bad Mkaay

Just because something is complicated and difficult to figure out, at this time, doesn't make it false.

200 years ago when a physician argued for the theory that a surgeon not washing their hands caused infections in patients they struggled to prove their point. Some might dismiss their theory by actually concluding that because they couldn't conclusively demonstrate that it was true, it must be false.

No one said it did. Contextomy fallacy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
27-11-2020 21:06
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
Tmiddles wrote Just because something is complicated and difficult to figure out, at this time, doesn't make it false.

200 years ago when a physician argued for the theory that a surgeon not washing their hands caused infections in patients they struggled to prove their point. Some might dismiss their theory by actually concluding that because they couldn't conclusively demonstrate that it was true, it must be false.

It is difficult to work out as Tafata buddha said 'The only thing certain in an everchanging world is change itself"Two things Tmiddles
1.Why are you so convinced the Media is right about AGW/CC.Do you wish it to be true
2.Your doctor sanitary analogy reeks of desperation to prove a point.Why can you not consider Nils axel morners position on the truth about sea levels.He is considered the worlds leading expert.how do you dismiss his findings so easily
29-11-2020 04:54
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
tmiddles wrote: I do find the work done on it credible but I have a lot of doubts, and no one interested in discussing the issue.

Well it's WACKY religious dogma that you find "credible" and you won't discuss any science, especially since your faith has you believing you are omniscient and that violations of physics are "what we know." Your religion has you operating under the mistaken impression that thermal energy flows from cooler to warmer and that a dimensionless number is a continuous interval if the context is temperature.

Your WACKY cult knew what they were doing when they targetted you for recruitment and for indoctrination. You are gullible and can be made to believe anything as long as you are assured that you are a social justice superhero. You were even convinced that violent riots are peaceful ideas. They have you convinced that your WACKY religion is "thettled thienth" and that you are a fugging genius who is performing a service to humanity by disagreeing with those who try to help you with science and math.

Let me know if I omitted anything.

tmiddles wrote: Why do I want to switch to an unrelated subject matter to provide an example of a phenomenon?

I know, right? You might inadvertently answer his question. You might accidentally address his concern. You're too sharp to fall into that trap.

tmiddles wrote: Because it should provide us both with the clarity to set aside AGW and look at only, in this case, the human behavior.

Of course, right? Why would you want to allow the discussion to wander into relevant territory when you can simply squat on totally irrelevant and completely undefined "human activity"?

tmiddles wrote: I find an examination of short term sea level rise to be beyond pointless as the changes are so small.

Which implies that there are changes ... of which we are certain. After all, it's "what we know", right?

tmiddles wrote:2mm a year!

Of course! It's what we know.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-11-2020 05:03
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3718)
duncan61 wrote:
"Two things Tmiddles
1.Why are you so convinced the Media is right about AGW/CC.Do you wish it to be true

I'm not. I do find the work done on it credible but I have a lot of doubts, and no one interested in discussing the issue.

duncan61 wrote:
2.Your doctor sanitary analogy reeks of desperation to prove a point.Why can you not consider Nils axel morners position on the truth about sea levels.He is considered the worlds leading expert.how do you dismiss his findings so easily
Why do I want to switch to an unrelated subject matter to provide an example of a phenomenon? Because it should provide us both with the clarity to set aside AGW and look at only, in this case, the human behavior.
I find an examination of short term sea level rise to be beyond pointless as the changes are so small. You are relentless in ignoring that.

2mm a year! Let it go Duncan. Its a straw man you're desperately holding onto.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
29-11-2020 06:07
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: I do find the work done on it credible but I have a lot of doubts, and no one interested in discussing the issue.

Well it's WACKY religious dogma that you find "credible" and you won't discuss any science, especially since your faith has you believing you are omniscient and that violations of physics are "what we know." Your religion has you operating under the mistaken impression that thermal energy flows from cooler to warmer and that a dimensionless number is a continuous interval if the context is temperature.

Your WACKY cult knew what they were doing when they targetted you for recruitment and for indoctrination. You are gullible and can be made to believe anything as long as you are assured that you are a social justice superhero. You were even convinced that violent riots are peaceful ideas. They have you convinced that your WACKY religion is "thettled thienth" and that you are a fugging genius who is performing a service to humanity by disagreeing with those who try to help you with science and math.

Let me know if I omitted anything.

tmiddles wrote: Why do I want to switch to an unrelated subject matter to provide an example of a phenomenon?

I know, right? You might inadvertently answer his question. You might accidentally address his concern. You're too sharp to fall into that trap.

tmiddles wrote: Because it should provide us both with the clarity to set aside AGW and look at only, in this case, the human behavior.

Of course, right? Why would you want to allow the discussion to wander into relevant territory when you can simply squat on totally irrelevant and completely undefined "human activity"?

tmiddles wrote: I find an examination of short term sea level rise to be beyond pointless as the changes are so small.

Which implies that there are changes ... of which we are certain. After all, it's "what we know", right?

tmiddles wrote:2mm a year!

Of course! It's what we know.


.




How did my response to your post get posted before your post?



.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-11-2020 11:02
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
Tmiddles wrote Why do I want to switch to an unrelated subject matter to provide an example of a phenomenon? Because it should provide us both with the clarity to set aside AGW and look at only, in this case, the human behavior.
I find an examination of short term sea level rise to be beyond pointless as the changes are so small. You are relentless in ignoring that.

2mm a year! Let it go Duncan. Its a straw man you're desperately holding onto.

How can sea level be a strawman.Its what the entire forum is all about.Discussing the effects of CO2 on the planet.The sea level going up is the biggest player in the whole argument of AGW/CC
29-11-2020 11:11
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
Duncan wrote Hi all I am brand new and have been interested in the climate debate since the Greta saga.I have watched a lot of conflicting videos and if possible would like to get some real answers.These are my own questions as a denier of manmade climate change
.If the temperature has gone up a degree how does that melt ice that is at -40 or more.Regards Duncan

This was my first post on this site on 8/2/2020 and after wading through so much off topic stuff not one person can demonstrate where the sea has or is going to go up.I have found a heap of information from scientists saying the sea level is not going up.Now Tmiddles you claim I am being relentless and I am because if its going to happen we have a problem but if it is not then leave it alone
29-11-2020 11:24
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3718)
duncan61 wrote:
How can sea level be a strawman.Its what the entire forum is all about.

A "Straw man" is changing the argument being made to one that is weak and easily defeated.
Picking as the sole consequence of AGW that there is a predicted 2mm sea level rise, which is one of the most difficult to measure over a short period of time, and then concluding that because you cannot measure it it must not be happening, is a classic example.

If you want to continue looking for photographs that prove to you there is not a 2mm per year rise in sea level have at it. You will only be wasting your own time.

Here I'll give you an example of what you are doing:
There is the argument that cigarettes are a health risk. The real core argument is that they cause lung cancer.
Now I could change that argument into a straw man argument by saying that it's claimed that cigarettes are dangerous because one might drop one and start a fire burning their house down, which is technically true. I could then point out that no one says candles should be illegal and that even incense burns. So really cigarettes aren't so dangerous as it's claimed because if you look at the statistics very few houses burn down as a result.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
29-11-2020 14:19
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
Your insane.Prove the sea level is increasing and not by some chart that was invented.Actual tidal results.I have posted over and over evidence it is not rising at all and have Nils Axel to back me up and have posted his work.Nice try to somehow convert it to smoking
29-11-2020 14:45
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3718)
duncan61 wrote:
...Prove the sea level is increasing ...

Youre either incredibly dense, Fing with me or I have failed to communicate.

Last try:

The theory that sea levels are rising (due at least in part to AGW) is based on measurements and puts the increase at about 2mm a year.

It is not my theory.

Again: It is not my theory

Really take that in.

I dont care at all about this aspect of AGW theory and think only morons do. Note my first topic here dismissing it: link

Why?

Because clearly by the same measurements sea levels were rising through the early 1900s before AGW would have had a major impact. Also the change is so small no short term measurements are useful.

It occurs to me based on your replies you're either not reading my posts or don't know what a millimeter is. So here:


Tip of a sharp crayon

The theory is the ocean rises that much in a year.

So continue to waste your time on the topic if you please.

I won't.
Edited on 29-11-2020 14:57
29-11-2020 16:03
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
tmiddles wrote: A "Straw man" is changing the argument being made to one that is weak and easily defeated.

Is that similar to assigning an absurd position to someone and then attacking him for the absurd position thus assigned?

tmiddles wrote: Picking as the sole consequence of AGW that there is a predicted 2mm sea level rise, which is one of the most difficult to measure over a short period of time, and then concluding that because you cannot measure it it must not be happening, is a classic example.

Is that similar to insisting that there are "consequences" to something that is completely undefined, and then insisting that others assume the burden of proving such affirmative claims false?

tmiddles wrote:If you want to continue looking for photographs that prove to you there is not a 2mm per year rise in sea level have at it.

I think Duncan quite clearly is asking you to support your ABSURD insistence that the sea level is rising.

Others have quite clearly asked you to unambiguously define your ABSURD concept of AGW that seems to involve violations of physics.

... so ... have at it.


tmiddles wrote: Here I'll give you an example of what you are doing: There is the argument that cigarettes are a health risk. The real core argument is that they cause lung cancer.

Enter the scientific method. We find a long-time smoker who never develops lung cancer. Voila! A counterexample that falsifies the theory of causation. Something else must "cause" lung cancer in those who develop it.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-11-2020 16:22
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
tmiddles wrote:The theory that sea levels are rising (due at least in part to AGW) is based on measurements and puts the increase at about 2mm a year.

Aaaah, the completely undefined theory is based on a completely nonexistent valid dataset. Gotcha.

tmiddles wrote: It is not my theory.

In this forum it is your theory. You own it. You believe in it. It is your religion. It is your faith. You totally own it.

tmiddles wrote:Again: It is not my theory

Again: In this forum it is your theory. You own it. You believe in it. It is your religion. It is your faith. You totally own it.

Really take that in.

I dont care at all about any aspect of your AGW theory and I think only morons do. Note my continuous dismissal of it.

Why?

Because clearly by the same non-existent rational basis for believing in AGW there is the same lack of any rational basis for believing in any specific "consequences" of such.

It occurred to me based on your replies that you never read my posts or don't have any intention of being honest.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-11-2020 16:52
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2919)
How come cigarettes are still legal, people allowed to smoke, if there is such confidence in the health hazards? Because, there is only what's considered a higher risk, of getting cancer. Basically. if non smokers have a 0.012% chance of developing lung cancer, while a smoker has a 0.031% chance, smokers are about 3 times more likely. Regardless though, there is only a small chance of lung cancer. It's just a democrat tool to control a good size segment of the population, discriminate , demonize, and steal their wealth.

Wearing a mask, is a similar case, since there is only a slight benefit, about the same as covering you mouth, or turning away, when you cough or sneeze. No point to wearing a mask, if you don't have a cold, and not coughing or sneezing. People who don't join the mask-cult, are demonized attacked, stripped of their wealth (civil fines for non-compliance).

How in the hell can the global sea level be measured, down to a milometer resolution? Have you ever been to the beach, or on a saltwater boat? Calm, flat sea is very rare. Normally, it dips, it swells, there are waves for surfing. Most coastal communities have tide markers, as a reminder for people with boats, so they don't run aground, get stuck on sand bars. You can see the salt deposits that build up naturally over the years. You can also see there is a lot of variation, lines in those deposits. Obviously, there are many the sea level never stays the same. Arguing a 2 milometer sea level rise, because of melting ice is absurd, since there is a natural variation of measured in feet. Averages, in a global claim, mean absolutely nothing, if your data only contains a small, very selective sample, that doesn't represent the entire planet.
29-11-2020 21:34
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3718)
HarveyH55 wrote:
How in the hell can the global sea level be measured, down to a milometer resolution? ...
Did anyone say it could be?

A pointless discussion....
29-11-2020 22:03
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2919)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
How in the hell can the global sea level be measured, down to a milometer resolution? ...
Did anyone say it could be?

A pointless discussion....


Ever what Al Gore's award winning documentary? Rising sea levels, is one of the arguments used, to justify global warming crap. Certainly, this isn't news to you, so this is just another of your fool games. Can we agree that you are a fool?

If it was pointless, why respond? To play a fool game? Can we agree, you aren't very intelligent? A moron?
29-11-2020 23:49
keepit
★★★★☆
(1860)
Harvey,
You sound like IBD. Think for your self.
30-11-2020 00:57
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
How in the hell can the global sea level be measured, down to a milometer resolution? ...
Did anyone say it could be?

... then why do you insist that the sea level is rising? Why do you not admit that, as far as you know, the sea level could be lowering?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-11-2020 01:04
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
keepit wrote: Harvey, You sound like IBD.

I sound like Harvey? I'll take that as a compliment.


keepit wrote: Think for your self.

You shouldn't be ordering people to do what you are not willing to do yourself.

I wonder how you would come across if you weren't eternally confused. I bet no one knows.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-11-2020 01:12
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14484)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
You sound like IBD. Think for your self.

He is thinking for himself.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
30-11-2020 01:53
keepit
★★★★☆
(1860)
It seems to me that several on this website are operating on someone else's agenda.
30-11-2020 02:09
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(874)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
How in the hell can the global sea level be measured, down to a milometer resolution? ...
Did anyone say it could be?

A pointless discussion....


NASA claim their altimetry satellites can measure to a millimetre its what all the fuss is about.

Quote Satellite altimeter
Satellite altimetry measures the time taken for a radar pulse to travel from the satellite to the sea surface and back to the satellite. Radar altimeters map the topography of the ocean surface with unprecedented accuracy.

I will make clear my position at 800am 30/11/2020
I do not find it credible that NASA can measure sea level rise.What they have done is gather the tide data and build a program to make the Satellite data coincide then monitor the changes.
The program has not run long enough to do squat
NASA built it they have to say it works
Nils axel Morner is on the ground doing outside research in real time
Just South of Perth is Rockingham and it is open to the ocean but very sheltered.There is next to no tide movement and there has been no observed sea level change since 1967.My lifetime I fished of the jetty with my dad
My fixation with sea levels is that is the big drama with the AGW/CC claim
all the other bits do not matter.The plants animal migration is an example.There are lions in South Africa and in Eygpt across that vast expanse.Where they going to go next.Every country has a big cat of some sort.Jaguars in South America.Snow leopards in Asia.Australia had no cats but we do now and the Feral cats get big.You have mountan lions in good ole USA.You get the picture.Its a big scare campagn to stop people having stuff.A county in UK has stopped allowing meat products at council events because we all have to go vegan and walk to work Last comment.The insults are starting its not a good look for the debate team


duncan61
30-11-2020 02:13
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3718)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Ever what Al Gore's award winning documentary? Rising sea levels, is one of the arguments used, to justify global warming crap....
Yes and and I've been clear it's not my theory or a theory a subscribe to.

Do you need me to say that again?

Regarding the theory that the evidence and measurements of sea level we have now show AGW has caused sea levels to rise; it is not my theory or a theory a subscribe to. My first topic here called BS on it.

That's actually not why it's a stupid thing to debate. My opinion is not relevant. It's pointless to debate it because empirical evidence, as in real measurements, aren't useful over the short term since the changes are so minute.

Could be Al Gore's predictions are true but you cannot refute or establish that empirically right now.

Discussing the theory behind it could be interesting but no one currently on this board is interested in doing that.

duncan61 wrote:...I do not find it credible that NASA can measure sea level rise....My fixation with sea levels is that is the big drama with the AGW/CC claim all the other bits do not matter....
Nope. Straw man Duncan.

You have made up a position that does not exist (no where does Nasa claim they can measure sea level changes within 1mm form a satellite) and you are pretending it's the lynch pin of the AGW case.

Good luck with that.

FYI (google is your friend):
https://phys.org/news/2015-05-sea-level-scientists.html
"It finds that the overall rate of sea level rise between 1993 and mid-2014 is between 2.6 and 2.9 mm per year, with a margin of error of plus or minus 0.4 mm." So that is a range of 0.3mm over a 20 year period +/-0.4. So that would mean those researchers are 95% confident that the sea level rise over a 20 year periods was between 2.2mm and 3.3mm. So a total change of 44mm, 1 3/4 inches, or as high as 66mm, 2 1/2 inches. That is the what is calculated on the measurements for a 20 year stretch, combining any natural change with AGW changes whatever they may be. Minute enough for you? So that's the last time I'm taking this up with you Duncan.
Edited on 30-11-2020 02:22
30-11-2020 03:12
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
tgoebbles wrote:it is not my theory or a theory a subscribe to. My first topic here called BS on it.

Yes, it is your theory. You insist it is true. Watch ...

tgoebbles wrote: It's pointless to debate it because empirical evidence, as in real measurements, aren't useful over the short term since the changes are so minute.

You insist that you know that there are, in fact, changes, and that they are minute, and that they are measured. You also refuse to produce any sort of valid measurement set that somehow "shows" these minute changes which you insist are measured.

tgoebbles wrote: Could be Al Gore's predictions are true but you cannot refute or establish that empirically right now.

The word is "unfalsifiable." Your religious faith is unfalsifiable. What you preach is unfalsifiable.

tgoebbles wrote:Discussing the [religion] behind it could be interesting but no one currently on this board is interested in doing that.

You absolutely are interested ... so discuss it. I, for my part, am happy to discuss all the physics it violates in the name of being your "thettled thienth."

tgoebbles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:...I do not find it credible that NASA can measure sea level rise....My fixation with sea levels is that is the big drama with the AGW/CC claim all the other bits do not matter....
Nope. Straw man Duncan.

Great point Duncan. Stay on it.

tgoebbles wrote:you are pretending it's the lynchpin of the AGW case.

Prove that it is somehow NOT the lynchpin of AGW. For all anyone knows, it's as good a lynchpin as any, AGW being completely undefined as it is.

Duncan, stay on it.

NASA has been taken over by Marxists who have hijacked the agency and force it to stand in solidarity with WACKY leftists. Ergo, NASA officially claims an annual sea level rise of 3.3mm.

.
Attached image:

30-11-2020 03:15
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3718)
IBdaMann wrote:
...Prove that....
no thanks

You guys enjoy yourselves!
30-11-2020 04:02
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2919)
Sea level rise interests me, because I live in the middle of Florida. I've got ocean, less than an hour drive, east or west. Florida was already predicted to be submerged by now. Of course, there hasn't been alarms raised locally. Yet, the global warming crowd keeps insisting that Florida is sinking.
30-11-2020 04:46
Tricolours
☆☆☆☆☆
(2)
I'm a newbie with little experience in this area, this may be a stupid question. The Global Warming scientist's put forward charts/graphs showing how the ice caps have been melting over the past 50 years or so. Plotting the various positions for how many tonnes of ice has melted each year. We are shown a graph trending upwards, but not a straight line. More a squiggly modulating line - three steps forward two steps backward type of line. But carbon emissions (man made) have been pretty much a constant over that time period. It's not as if we have a break one year and put out twice as much co2 the next. So why do charts deviate up and down for each year? So why aren't we see a straight steady decline in the line?
Edited on 30-11-2020 04:53
30-11-2020 07:24
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8056)
Tricolours wrote:The Global Warming scientist's put forward charts/graphs showing how the ice caps have been melting over the past 50 years or so.

"Global Warming scientist" is a contradiction in terms. Global Warming is a WACKY religion and has no science supporting it. Its leaders are religious hierarchy. There is no such thing as a scientist of an unfalsifiable religion.

Also, ice caps have been melting but they have been growing at the same time. The growth exceeds the melt such that the polar ice caps are increasing in overall ice mass. The surface of both ice sheets is net accumulating by multiple meters of ice thickness per year.

One more time, multiple meters of ice thickness accumulating per year.

Tricolours wrote: So why do charts deviate up and down for each year? So why aren't we see a straight steady decline in the line?

Because it's a total scam and all the charts are simply fabricated for the benefit of those who are being manipulated. This is why you are never shown any valid data set or told what the target margin of error was.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-11-2020 10:45
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2919)
I think a lot of 'scientists' are reluctant to leave the lab anymore. Why travel, and do all that unpleasant work outdoors in the wild, when you can just simulate it on a computer model. Seems like computer models are used a lot more for other disciplines, and there gets to be some confusion between virtual, and actual data. A lot of the pandemic, has been about the computer models. The recent election, the polls and projections, done with computer models.

Ice melts in the summer, and reforms each winter. It's never equal amounts of melting, or reforming each year.
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