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20-06-2020 07:32
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7051)
tgoebbles wrote: Yeah Al Gore put his chips on the wrong number there. If it's happening we know it's slow because we've got 50 years now of not much happening when compared to the 50 years before that is.

Any reasonable, rational adult can verify for himself that there hasn't been any perceptible sea level rise for the last eighty years. Nobody has any information about the sea level before that.

tgoebbles wrote: If a measurement differs from the true value what do you call that difference?

Very few people are able to ask omniscient tgoebbles what that true value is so no infinite-precision-total-accuracy-true-value is ever known for that computation to be performed.

So, until we are able to clone a sufficient number of omniscient tgoebbles to make this a thing, you don't have a point.

tgoebbles wrote: He didn't jot down a confidence level because there was no need to.

So you are admitting that you were WRONG! when you insisted that there is a "confidence level" associated with every measure that is specifically NOT the human emotion of confidence, yes?

tgoebbles wrote: Still no answer to this. What would you like to know about standard deviation? I told you I have no problem with basic statistics. That has no bearing on your ability to answer that simple question.

Great. I will walk you through the process and you can see how many you actually need.

We'll start wiith you selecting an example of an application that requires the earth's average temperature. It can be any one you wish.

tgoebbles wrote: Saying that a "tolerance" is "created" is like someone asking how a cake is made and you simply say that a baker makes one. That's not an answer to HOW that is an answer to WHO.

No. Your insistence that tolerance is not engineered into a system or device is as absurd as insisting that a baker didn't follow any recipe, but was genuinely surprised to have randomly generated a perfect 3-layer cake with "Happy Birthday" on it for you on your birthday.

... and those calipers just happened to meet the tolerance requirements. What a most fortunate coincidence for the manufacturer who randomly invested a lot of money on a gambit

Too funny.

tgoebbles wrote: So IBD let's say a manufacturer is going to determine not what they wanted, hoped and set out to make the accuracy of their device, but what they actually have in their current manufacturing batch. THAT is what the accuracy actually is.

If I understand you correctly, then "yes."

Any measuring device has its particular accuracy. It is not a "+/-" (as say a tolerance) but is an absolute value like "it measures about 0.3 mm too long" or "it indicates I have about a gallon less than I actually have." When you go to a shooting range you look at your target and notice that your shot was wide right by two inches and not +/- anything.

tgoebbles wrote: Your non-answer could be used for just about everything. "How is ______ done?": "Through hard work and determination".

What is clear is that you didn't understand what I wrote. I'm not sure how to explain it more clearly and I'm happy to give someone else a shot.


Would anyone like to give it a try?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-06-2020 16:14
James___
★★★★★
(2835)
gfm7175 wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
I will rejoice the day BLM is listed as a terrorist organization and subject to drone strikes for their lynchings and looting and criminal trespass.

.

Rejoice (at least a very tiny bit) because the Mayor of Olympia, WA (Cheryl Selby) is now labeling BLM as "domestic terrorism", taking a drastic change from her former support for BLM.

What happened?!?!? Oh, wait, what's this??? Just in... BLM vandalized her home.

Hmmmmmmmmm.......... Apparently she's perfectly fine with BLM so long as BLM is not affecting her personally... Interesting........

Be violent, so long as your violence isn't aimed at me



And in other news where lives mattered. Germans rioted and damaged both public and private property. They felt threatened. The rioting was because they want the other people gone who happened to be Jews. Rioting and vandalism is about who has the power.

With Byron Williams, he also said he couldn't breathehttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/when-byron-williams-died-saying-i-can-t-breathe-few-n1231342.

If you don't get this 5717mfg, if both Byron Williams and George Floyd went into cardiac arrest, should the police know what those symptoms are? The police aren't doctors. Should they be able or better yet, to make a diagnosis?
And this is where no one in the BLM IMHO is wanting to fix the problem. There are basically no rules for both civilians and law enforcement to follow when interacting.
I think this is another example of the media getting it wrong. The media convicted Richard Jewell http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journalism/j6075/edit/readings/jewell.html.
What the media should've done is made it known that when people are being choked, they say "I am being choked". I think people know the difference.
Also, when someone is having difficulty breathing, does the situation become a medical emergency? And if someone dies because of drug usage and/or health problems, are the officers involved guilty of murder?
And then there is Naomi Osaka who defeated Vanessa Williams to win the 2018 US Open Championship, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2018/09/08/naomi-osaka-receives-us-open-trophy-tears-serena-williams-meltdown/
Vanessa didn't care for the rules and protested on court by smashing her tennis racquet and calling the umpire a thief as well. The 2018 US Open Championship will always be about how unfairly Vanessa was treated when even her coach said that he was coaching her during play which is not allowed during Grand Slam events in Women's Tennis.
20-06-2020 19:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12779)
IBdaMann wrote:
tgoebbles wrote: Yeah Al Gore put his chips on the wrong number there. If it's happening we know it's slow because we've got 50 years now of not much happening when compared to the 50 years before that is.

Any reasonable, rational adult can verify for himself that there hasn't been any perceptible sea level rise for the last eighty years. Nobody has any information about the sea level before that.

tgoebbles wrote: If a measurement differs from the true value what do you call that difference?

Very few people are able to ask omniscient tgoebbles what that true value is so no infinite-precision-total-accuracy-true-value is ever known for that computation to be performed.

So, until we are able to clone a sufficient number of omniscient tgoebbles to make this a thing, you don't have a point.

tgoebbles wrote: He didn't jot down a confidence level because there was no need to.

So you are admitting that you were WRONG! when you insisted that there is a "confidence level" associated with every measure that is specifically NOT the human emotion of confidence, yes?

tgoebbles wrote: Still no answer to this. What would you like to know about standard deviation? I told you I have no problem with basic statistics. That has no bearing on your ability to answer that simple question.

Great. I will walk you through the process and you can see how many you actually need.

We'll start wiith you selecting an example of an application that requires the earth's average temperature. It can be any one you wish.

tgoebbles wrote: Saying that a "tolerance" is "created" is like someone asking how a cake is made and you simply say that a baker makes one. That's not an answer to HOW that is an answer to WHO.

No. Your insistence that tolerance is not engineered into a system or device is as absurd as insisting that a baker didn't follow any recipe, but was genuinely surprised to have randomly generated a perfect 3-layer cake with "Happy Birthday" on it for you on your birthday.

... and those calipers just happened to meet the tolerance requirements. What a most fortunate coincidence for the manufacturer who randomly invested a lot of money on a gambit

Too funny.

tgoebbles wrote: So IBD let's say a manufacturer is going to determine not what they wanted, hoped and set out to make the accuracy of their device, but what they actually have in their current manufacturing batch. THAT is what the accuracy actually is.

If I understand you correctly, then "yes."

Any measuring device has its particular accuracy. It is not a "+/-" (as say a tolerance) but is an absolute value like "it measures about 0.3 mm too long" or "it indicates I have about a gallon less than I actually have." When you go to a shooting range you look at your target and notice that your shot was wide right by two inches and not +/- anything.

tgoebbles wrote: Your non-answer could be used for just about everything. "How is ______ done?": "Through hard work and determination".

What is clear is that you didn't understand what I wrote. I'm not sure how to explain it more clearly and I'm happy to give someone else a shot.


Would anyone like to give it a try?

.

I already did. He just rejected the answer, conflating 'accuracy', 'precision', 'reliability', 'tolerance', and 'margin of error' again. He loves those semantics fallacies.


The Parrot Killer
20-06-2020 21:39
gfm7175Profile picture★★★☆☆
(920)
... he loves just about ANY fallacy he can get his hands on...
21-06-2020 01:13
James___
★★★★★
(2835)
gfm7175 wrote:
... he loves just about ANY fallacy he can get his hands on...



Just queerious. Can you get your hands on your fallus? I've heard that the size of the fallusy doesn't matter, just it's motion. Is that true? And are you saying that "he" takes it anyway that he can "get it"?
I think everyone knows that ancient Romans created the term "fallacy" because like Romans, they let everyone know that they had a big phallus. And if you disagreed, they merely killed you.
I do wonder about your obsession with male genitalia.
21-06-2020 01:31
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7051)
James___ wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
... he loves just about ANY fallacy he can get his hands on...

Just queerious. ...
I do wonder about your obsession with male genitalia.

So you're saying that "fallacy" has nothing to do with gravity and slipping at the rink? I was sure it was a Norway thing ... specifically a Norwegian Jet Stream thing.
Attached image:

21-06-2020 01:44
James___
★★★★★
(2835)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
... he loves just about ANY fallacy he can get his hands on...

Just queerious. ...
I do wonder about your obsession with male genitalia.

So you're saying that "fallacy" has nothing to do with gravity and slipping at the rink? I was sure it was a Norway thing ... specifically a Norwegian Jet Stream thing.



You shouldn't say no hating while hating, Are you a born again Christian?
If you go north east from Newton, you cross (since you are a born again Christian) the Faroe Islands before arriving in Norway. Yet Pharaoh is spelled differently than Faroe.
With the phallus, it is you and your friends that keep referring to it. You guys keep saying it's a phallusy. Or is that Fallusy or fallacy? Unless you are discussing the Sumerian language, it seems that all other languages have "roots".
Some examples.
En Francais - mot
snakker Norske - word
For you born again Christians - the word of God (the Bible) is food
In Russian - pew means I drink and for a born again Christian like yourself, you drink in the word of God
So you see, if you go from one language to another, words have a "root" meaning.
Another example is amore or amour or arrmor. When someone loves you, you are strengthened. You become stronger.
21-06-2020 02:25
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7051)
James___ wrote:You shouldn't say no hating while hating, Are you a born again Christian?

Do you need me to be? What do you need?

James___ wrote: Another example is amore or amour or arrmor. When someone loves you, you are strengthened. You become stronger.

I thought it was "that which doesn't kill you."


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
21-06-2020 02:33
James___
★★★★★
(2835)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:You shouldn't say no hating while hating, Are you a born again Christian?

Do you need me to be? What do you need?

James___ wrote: Another example is amore or amour or arrmor. When someone loves you, you are strengthened. You become stronger.

I thought it was "that which doesn't kill you."


.


It seems that you DO understand that phallus and fallacy are essentially the same word.
21-06-2020 02:33
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3260)
Again you completely ignored the only part of my post I viewed as central to my disagreement with you and ITN. So I will ONLY post it now and address your other points later:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:...the actual length he measured was uncertain.
..His emotional state
Ah ah, you skip the actual issue. Was the measurement uncertain or not? Was there a probability that it would fall within a range of the true value or not?...tolerance. ...how it is measured....
You've again ignored the answer:
Statistical Tolerance Limits

You said:
IBdaMann wrote:
Any measuring device has its particular accuracy. It is not a "+/-" (as say a tolerance)
So again you are playing word games. Call it whatever you want but it is what appears in the image below: where it shows +/- 0.03mm
Into the Night wrote:[tmiddles] just rejected the answer, conflating 'accuracy', 'precision', 'reliability', 'tolerance', and 'margin of error' again. He loves those semantics fallacies.
ITN you never addressed the issue of if a measurement is uncertain within some range of the true value being measured.
Vocabulary aside you can still answer that question.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
21-06-2020 03:54
James___
★★★★★
(2835)
tmiddles wrote:
Again you completely ignored the only part of my post I viewed as central to my disagreement with you and ITN. So I will ONLY post it now and address your other points later:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:...the actual length he measured was uncertain.
..His emotional state
Ah ah, you skip the actual issue. Was the measurement uncertain or not? Was there a probability that it would fall within a range of the true value or not?...tolerance. ...how it is measured....
You've again ignored the answer:
Statistical Tolerance Limits

You said:
IBdaMann wrote:
Any measuring device has its particular accuracy. It is not a "+/-" (as say a tolerance)
So again you are playing word games. Call it whatever you want but it is what appears in the image below: where it shows +/- 0.03mm
Into the Night wrote:[tmiddles] just rejected the answer, conflating 'accuracy', 'precision', 'reliability', 'tolerance', and 'margin of error' again. He loves those semantics fallacies.
ITN you never addressed the issue of if a measurement is uncertain within some range of the true value being measured.
Vocabulary aside you can still answer that question.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN


Can you simplify that? I can't tell IBDM to shove it up his Uranus if I don't know what his phallus is doing. He tells me that his fallacy reaches into his his cranium.
He has told me that Klingons like him because of his Uranus. They seem to like it. I've heard it's difficult to "penetrate" but once past his Uranus, the situation seems to improve.
I've just never heard of anything "penetrating" Uranus.
21-06-2020 04:18
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(189)
What is the temperature of Uranus?
21-06-2020 04:48
duncan61
★★☆☆☆
(366)
Are we still splitting hairs over the Global average temperature.Please someone tell me what it is and how you measured it unlike M Mann show your workings or for Fs sake just accept it can not be measured accurately enough at any point in time to claim it is changing.Simple yes
21-06-2020 11:51
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3260)
duncan61 wrote:...tell me ...how you measured it ...show your workings or ...accept it can not be measured ...
Duncan I believe you are saying that if we laymen cannot ourselves calculate the margin of error on measuring the Earth's temperature (I certainly cannot) that it cannot be done? Nope, pretty much nothing works that way. Thankfully humanity is not limited to the ability on this board.

I had recommend before you can check out Pat Franks he actually has a 45 minute video where he explains that we can measure the Earth temp but not to the margin needed for AGW evidence (so you'll like that!). There is always a margin of error by the way it's only "not enough" depending on what you wanted to find out.
Pat Fanks
22-06-2020 00:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12779)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted lies...Mantras 30...29...29...10g...30...10g...29...


No argument presented. RQAA. Semantics fallacies.


The Parrot Killer
22-06-2020 01:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12779)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted Mantras 10g...31...25c1..4a...4b...25g...29...


No argument presented. Semantics fallacies. RQAA. Use of random numbers as 'data'. Denial of mathematics.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 22-06-2020 01:02
22-06-2020 01:41
duncan61
★★☆☆☆
(366)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:...tell me ...how you measured it ...show your workings or ...accept it can not be measured ...
Duncan I believe you are saying that if we laymen cannot ourselves calculate the margin of error on measuring the Earth's temperature (I certainly cannot) that it cannot be done? Nope, pretty much nothing works that way. Thankfully humanity is not limited to the ability on this board.

I had recommend before you can check out Pat Franks he actually has a 45 minute video where he explains that we can measure the Earth temp but not to the margin needed for AGW evidence (so you'll like that!). There is always a margin of error by the way it's only "not enough" depending on what you wanted to find out.
Pat Fanks


The satellites AQUA and TERRA can take pictures and measure lght and other cool stuff but with cloud cover and all the other variables can not give a definitive reading of Global average temperature so we can not know the Global average to be able to say it is getting warmer.If its not getting warmer the whole problem goes away.Just because I can not do it as a plumbing contractor in West Australia does not mean someone else can.Again show the calculations on how its done you word twisting slut


duncan61
22-06-2020 01:57
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3260)
duncan61 wrote:
...we can not know the Global average to be able to say it is getting warmer.If its not getting warmer the whole problem goes away.
I think you'll agree that doubt about measurement accuracy does not transform what is being measured. If it's getting warmer that is true whether or not we can measure it to 0.1C.

We are all able to determine temperature in our daily lives as animals. To say temperature cannot be known is a hard sell. So why not have an example of something we CAN measure the temperature of to compare/contrast with the lower atmosphere.

How about the temperature of your home, the human body, an engine, ect.
22-06-2020 02:24
duncan61
★★☆☆☆
(366)
The last 2 days have been very cold in the mornings yet today with solid cloud cover it is quite balmy and I am going to my first appointment at 8.00 am in a tee shirt.go figure
22-06-2020 08:35
duncan61
★★☆☆☆
(366)
My client was actually a scientist and he had the same take as us deniers that a small amount of CO2 can not make a lot of difference.
22-06-2020 17:02
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7051)
duncan61 wrote: My client was actually a scientist and he had the same take as us deniers that a small amount of CO2 can not make a lot of difference.

Did this "scientist" have any explanation for how CO2 could make ANY difference?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-06-2020 18:06
gfm7175Profile picture★★★☆☆
(920)
Xadoman wrote:
What is the temperature of Uranus?

Unknown.
22-06-2020 19:32
James___
★★★★★
(2835)
duncan61 wrote:
The last 2 days have been very cold in the mornings yet today with solid cloud cover it is quite balmy and I am going to my first appointment at 8.00 am in a tee shirt.go figure



There's nothing surprising about that.
22-06-2020 22:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12779)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
...we can not know the Global average to be able to say it is getting warmer.If its not getting warmer the whole problem goes away.
I think you'll agree that doubt about measurement accuracy does not transform what is being measured. If it's getting warmer that is true whether or not we can measure it to 0.1C.
Mantra 31...25g...25a...
tmiddles wrote:
We are all able to determine temperature in our daily lives as animals.
Mantra 15c...16c...
tmiddles wrote:
To say temperature cannot be known is a hard sell.
Mantras 15c...16c...
tmiddles wrote:
So why not have an example of something we CAN measure the temperature of to compare/contrast with the lower atmosphere.
Mantra 20a5...25c...29...36e...
tmiddles wrote:
How about the temperature of your home, the human body, an engine, ect.

Mantras 29...15a...15b...

No arguments presented. RQAA. Denial of mathematics. Denial of science. Spamming.


The Parrot Killer
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