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Rush Limbaugh cited one of my discoveries on his show



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11-05-2024 12:06
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
The huge explosion in Pennsylvania brought attention to the legacy of old hydrocarbon wells and what they continue to release.

NBC nightly news had a great report on it tonight.

It remains to be confirmed if the explosion was fueled by methane released from one of the abandoned wells in the area.

To follow up on the post above this one, the NBC report revealed something that will likely surprise most people.

These old oil and gas wells are causing arsenic concentrations in ground water to increase, by orders of magnitude in some cases.

The arsenic doesn't come from the petroleum or methane.

The hydrocarbons are being used by bacteria under low oxygen conditions.

To oxidize the organic carbon, bacteria use ferric iron as oxidant.

The ferric iron(III), or Fe3+, gets reduced to ferrous iron(II), or Fe2+.

Arsenate, a form of arsenic(V), that was bound to the ferric iron gets released into solution.

Different bacteria can then use the arsenate, or arsenic(V), as oxidant to get energy from organic carbon oxidation in the absence of oxygen, reducing it to arsenite, or arsenic(III).

It is easy enough to advise people not to use the water once the problem has been identified. But otherwise, they cannot taste it in the water.

It is also relatively easy to remedy the problem.

Once the point source origin of the hydrocarbons is located, air can be pumped underground to oxygenate that location.

The presence of oxygen will bring about the precipitation or adsorption of much of the arsenic in solution.

The presence of oxygen will also prevent any more solid-phase arsenic from being released into solution via reductive dissolution.

The energy yield for hydrocarbon oxidizing bacteria is much greater using oxygen rather than ferric iron or arsenate as oxidant.

The iron and arsenic reducing bacteria cannot compete effectively if oxygen is present. The aerobic hydrocarbon oxidizers will win out until the oxygen runs out.

Hydrocarbons yield energy when they are oxidized from organic carbon into inorganic carbon, whether in a combustion engine or a bacteria.

Bacteria of one kind or another will find a way to exploit this resource where they can find it, using one kind of oxidant or another.

To keep the arsenic from contaminating the water supply, we might prefer that the bacteria use oxygen rather than ferric iron(III) or arsenate arsenic(V) as their best available oxidant.
11-05-2024 12:07
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
The recent explosion in Pennsylvania has drawn attention to the existence of many abandoned hydrocarbon wells in the area.

A recent NBC nightly news report also pointed out that elevated arsenic in groundwater was associated with these old wells.

Through biogeochemical interactions, methane leaking from old wells causes arsenic to be released into groundwater.

Before humans drilled the wells, methane did not come up from underground into groundwater.

The arsenic in the soil that contacted the groundwater was almost entirely in the form of arsenate, AsO4(3-), in the oxidized arsenic(V) form.

Most of that arsenate was bound to the surfaces of iron, manganese, and aluminum (hydr)oxide clay minerals. Unable to dissolve and enter groundwater.

There are many species of bacteria that can oxidize methane under low oxygen conditions. The three kinds of greatest interest are:

1. Iron-reducing, methane oxidizing bacteria. They use ferric iron(III) as oxidant to oxidize methane. The insoluble ferric iron(III) is reduced to the soluble form of ferrous iron(II). Any arsenate attached to the ferric iron (hydr)oxide gets dissolved along with it.

2. Manganese-reducing, methane oxidizing bacteria. They use manganese(IV) as oxidant to oxidize methane. The insoluble manganese(IV) gets reduced to the soluble form of manganese(II). Any arsenate attached to the manganese(IV) (hydr)oxide gets dissolved along with it.

3. Arsenic-reducing, methane oxidizing bacteria. They use arsenate arsenic(V) as oxidant to oxidize methane. The relatively insoluble arsenate is reduced to arsenite arsenic(III). Compared to arsenate As(V), arsenite As(III) is much less likely to precipitate out or adsorb to Al, Fe, and Mn (hydr)oxide clay surfaces.

So the old well leaks methane into a zone where it was not present before.

Whatever oxygen may have been present is soon exhausted by aerobic methane oxidizing bacteria. These bacteria use oxygen gas as oxidant to oxidize methane.

Once low oxygen conditions are created, bacteria that use ferric iron(III), manganese(IV), or arsenate arsenic(V) as oxidants will have the competitive advantage to exploit the available methane.

This results in elevated groundwater arsenic as arsenate arsenic(V) is released into solution by reductive dissolution of ferric iron(III) and manganese(IV).

Arsenate released into solution then becomes available for use as oxidant by arsenic reducing bacteria that oxidize methane. The chemically reduced form of arsenic, arsenite As(III), can remain dissolved at much higher concentration for longer periods of time than the oxidized form, arsenate As(V).

If oxygen becomes available, a different kind of bacteria will be able to make a living by oxidizing arsenite As(III) into arsenate As(V) using oxygen as oxidant.

Other bacteria will make a living using oxygen to oxidize ferrous iron(II) into ferric iron(III).

Still others will make a living oxidizing manganese(II) into manganese(IV) using oxygen as oxidant.

As the newly formed ferric iron(III) and manganese(IV) precipitate out of solution, they will sequester the arsenate As(V) along with them.
11-05-2024 12:08
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
The arsenic was already there in the soil before anybody drilled a gas well.

It was harmless - bound up mainly as arsenate attached to the surface of iron, manganese, and aluminum (hydr)oxide clay minerals.

The methane was new to the system, and it changed the state of the arsenic.

The methane, leaking from the old gas well, never interacted directly with arsenic. Methane was used by bacteria which oxidized it to get energy. Unfortunately, the best available oxidants were attached to arsenic, as Fe(III) or Mn(IV), or were the arsenic itself, as arsenate or arsenic(V).

The bacteria released the arsenic into solution because methane was available in the absence of oxygen.

Introducing oxygen into the system would reverse the process to take the arsenic out of solution and put the arsenic back into the solid material where it cannot enter ground water.

This is straightforward biogeochemistry, but a person has to study at least a little bit to understand it.
11-05-2024 12:12
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
Rush was a funny guy.

He was a local celebrity here before he went national.

In the fall of 1998, he cited one of my discoveries on his show.

It had just been published in the journal Nature, but it wasn't my big one.

He used it as "proof" to support his assertion.

Humans are not responsible for eutrophication and fish kills in the reservoir.

It's actually Mother Nature's fault.

Rush loved it. It was more proof that he had been right all along.

Rush was a funny guy.

I loved it when he explained how climate change is a hoax.

He even had a graph illustrated with cartoons to prove it.

Mt. Pinatubo had emitted megatons of sun-blocking aerosols.

The earth had cooled for a year.

Rush showed us the scientific proof that global warming was a hoax.
11-05-2024 12:14
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
What Rush Limbaugh Said on RECORD!

I do not speak for Rush Limbaugh.

I do not HAVE TO. He spoke about it just fine for himself.

There was buzz in the scientific community about a new article in Nature.

Rush didn't provide the volume number or pages, but he named the journal as "Nature".

He wanted to play up that is was perhaps in a tie for the world's most prestigious peer-reviewed scientific journal, and the article supported the Rush Limbaugh Paradigm.

You see, in those rare cases when they believe that science is on their side, suddenly scientists become credible after all.

Like when they correctly measured surface temperatures in the year following the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo. But ONLY during THAT year
11-05-2024 12:15
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
Clearing deep rooted perennials for pasture - a missed opportunity.

I completed my part of the investigation in 1995, but the paper didn't come out until 1998. At least they acknowledged my initial field work.

Finding the first nitrogen rich tributary was an accident. Following it upstream for the most nitrogen rich one of all was deliberate.

Rattlesnake Creek was unusual. The trees had fine roots branching into the water. Tons of them.

The chaparral vegetation had been cleared for pasture in that part of the watershed. The deep rooted perennials had been replaced with shallow rooted annual grasses and shrubs.

Human activity had removed the natural mechanism that intercepted the nitrogen released from the weathering bedrock.

Without deep roots to pick it up, ammonium released from bedrock was oxidized to nitrate, a highly mobile anion that found its way into subsurface flow and eventually into surface water such as Rattlesnake Creek.

There was a reason the eutrophication, hypoxia, and fish kills had not happened in previous decades. Humans hadn't cleared the chaparral yet.

But all they really had proof for was that the bedrock was the source of nitrogen getting into the reservoir.
11-05-2024 12:18
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
Wild ideas in science are not always wrong.

The first post of this thread (below) was about a surprise discovery that was published in the journal Nature in 1998.

It turned out that ammonium contained in bedrock was the source of nitrate entering surface waters to periodically cause eutrophication, hypoxia, and massive fish kills in a northern California reservoir that was a major source of drinking water in the east Bay.

The nitrate didn't get picked up by the river until it came down to a very narrow zone of elevation in the area known as the "Mother Lode" during the California Gold rush.

Before I came to work with RD a few years before this discovery, he had already published another surprise discovery in the journal Nature about another site where ammonium in bedrock was causing extreme soil acidification in a relatively small area of watershed.

When oxygen is present, bacteria oxidize ammonium to nitrite, then others oxidize nitrite to nitric acid (hydrogen nitrate). This nitric acid made a the soil in part of a watershed extremely acidic. That issue of Nature selected this paper as one considered important enough for a separate review article titled "California acid rock".

What did the Mother Lode and this other site have in common?

They were in the narrow range of altitude in the lower Sierras where the bedrock is comprised of uplifted sea floor sediments that only experienced low grade metamorphism. These sea floor sediments were loaded with the remains of dead microorganisms full of organic carbon and nitrogen. Low grade metamorphism wasn't enough to bake out the nitrogen or squeeze it out, so it remained as ammonium.

RD loved to quote his former mentor as saying that to make big advances in science, "You cannot think rationally. You have to think irrationally."

You have to set aside the biases of what was assumed to be true.

None the textbooks with lists of sources of nitrogen known to enter waters included rocks as a potential suspect.

But when the geologic map revealed the very same metasedimentary rock formation underlying both sites, the irrational became the obvious.

Reflexive naysayers, even on this very project, insisted it was not possible.

They were overruled by the evidence when the chemical analysis of the rocks came back from the lab.
11-05-2024 12:28
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning2/3 way down on page 3, continuing on to page 4.

Multiple biogeochemistry investigations are described in this thread.

"sea lover" is a PhD biogeochemist who identified bedrock nitrogen as the source of high nitrate in stream water, as cited by Rush Limbaugh.

The four consecutive posts above this one detail that story.





What Rush Limbaugh Cited as Mother Nature's Fault. Reference.

1998. Contribution of bedrock nitrogen to high nitrate in stream water.
Nature. 395:785-788.



Occasional massive fish kills in a reservoir impacted drinking water quality for nearly a million consumers.

Excess nitrogen in the water, in the form of nitrate, was fertilizing algae blooms.

As old algae died and decomposed, microorganisms consumed so much oxygen that there wasn't enough left to keep the fish alive.

The false accusation was that forest management practices were causing nitrogen to enter the river as runoff.

In fact, the source of the nitrogen was bedrock in a very limited area of the watershed.

An area precisely where the Mother Lode of California Goldrush fame is located.
11-05-2024 19:07
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21959)
sealover wrote:
The huge explosion in Pennsylvania brought attention to the legacy of old hydrocarbon wells and what they continue to release.

There is no such thing as a 'hydrocarbon well'.
sealover wrote:
NBC nightly news had a great report on it tonight.

Quoting from NBC now? The outfit that writes fiction as 'news'??
sealover wrote:
It remains to be confirmed if the explosion was fueled by methane released from one of the abandoned wells in the area.

If a well is producing methane, there is no reason to abandon it.
sealover wrote:
To follow up on the post above this one, the NBC report revealed something that will likely surprise most people.

These old oil and gas wells are causing arsenic concentrations in ground water to increase, by orders of magnitude in some cases.

Methane is not arsenic. Arsenic is not a hydrocarbon.
sealover wrote:
The arsenic doesn't come from the petroleum or methane.

You just said it did. Which is it, dude?
sealover wrote:
The hydrocarbons are being used by bacteria under low oxygen conditions.

Ah. Back to this crap again.
sealover wrote:
To oxidize the organic carbon, bacteria use ferric iron as oxidant.

Carbon isn't organic. Iron is not oxygen.
sealover wrote:
Arsenate, a form of arsenic(V), that was bound to the ferric iron gets released into solution.

Different bacteria can then use the arsenate, or arsenic(V), as oxidant to get energy

Arsenic is not oxygen.
sealover wrote:
from organic carbon

Carbon is not organic.
sealover wrote:
oxidation in the absence of oxygen,

Paradox. Irrational.
sealover wrote:
reducing it to arsenite, or arsenic(III).

Oxygen is not arsenic.
sealover wrote:
It is easy enough to advise people not to use the water once the problem has been identified. But otherwise, they cannot taste it in the water.

Taste what? Your buzzwords?
sealover wrote:
It is also relatively easy to remedy the problem.

What problem? Your buzzwords?
sealover wrote:
Once the point source origin of the hydrocarbons is located, air can be pumped underground to oxygenate that location.

Dangerous. Use water.
sealover wrote:
The presence of oxygen will bring about the precipitation or adsorption of much of the arsenic in solution.

Hydrocarbon is not oxygen. Arsenic is not a hydrocarbon.
sealover wrote:
The presence of oxygen will also prevent any more solid-phase arsenic from being released into solution via reductive dissolution.

You cannot reduce arsenic.
sealover wrote:
The energy yield for hydrocarbon oxidizing bacteria is much greater using oxygen rather than ferric iron or arsenate as oxidant.

Iron is not oxygen. Arsenate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
The iron and arsenic reducing bacteria cannot compete effectively if oxygen is present. The aerobic hydrocarbon oxidizers will win out until the oxygen runs out.

Hydrocarbons are not an oxidizer.
sealover wrote:
Hydrocarbons yield energy when they are oxidized from organic carbon into inorganic carbon, whether in a combustion engine or a bacteria.

Carbon isn't organic.
sealover wrote:
Bacteria of one kind or another will find a way to exploit this resource where they can find it, using one kind of oxidant or another.

Iron is not oxygen. Arsenic is not oxygen. Hydrocarbons are not oxygen.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
11-05-2024 19:16
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21959)
sealover wrote:
Through biogeochemical interactions,

No such thing.
sealover wrote:
methane leaking from old wells causes arsenic to be released into groundwater.

Methane is not arsenic.
sealover wrote:
Before humans drilled the wells, methane did not come up from underground into groundwater.

Methane can be found in most any swamp, compost pile, oil well, fart, or just floating around in the atmosphere.
sealover wrote:
The arsenic in the soil that contacted the groundwater was almost entirely in the form of arsenate, AsO4(3-), in the oxidized arsenic(V) form.

Methane is not arsenic.
sealover wrote:
Most of that arsenate was bound to the surfaces of iron, manganese, and aluminum (hydr)oxide clay minerals. Unable to dissolve and enter groundwater.

Arsenate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
There are many species of bacteria that can oxidize methane under low oxygen conditions. The three kinds of greatest interest are:

1. Iron-reducing, methane oxidizing bacteria. They use ferric iron(III) as oxidant to oxidize methane. The insoluble ferric iron(III) is reduced to the soluble form of ferrous iron(II). Any arsenate attached to the ferric iron (hydr)oxide gets dissolved along with it.

Iron is not oxygen.
sealover wrote:
2. Manganese-reducing, methane oxidizing bacteria. They use manganese(IV) as oxidant to oxidize methane. The insoluble manganese(IV) gets reduced to the soluble form of manganese(II). Any arsenate attached to the manganese(IV) (hydr)oxide gets dissolved along with it.

Manganese is not oxygen. Arsenate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
3. Arsenic-reducing, methane oxidizing bacteria. They use arsenate arsenic(V) as oxidant to oxidize methane. The relatively insoluble arsenate is reduced to arsenite arsenic(III). Compared to arsenate As(V), arsenite As(III) is much less likely to precipitate out or adsorb to Al, Fe, and Mn (hydr)oxide clay surfaces.

You cannot reduce arsenic. Aluminum is not clay. Iron is not clay. Manganese is not clay.
sealover wrote:
So the old well leaks methane into a zone where it was not present before.

Methane can be found in the atmosphere, dude.
sealover wrote:
Whatever oxygen may have been present is soon exhausted by aerobic methane oxidizing bacteria. These bacteria use oxygen gas as oxidant to oxidize methane.

My furnace can do that. So?
sealover wrote:
Once low oxygen conditions are created, bacteria that use ferric iron(III), manganese(IV), or arsenate arsenic(V) as oxidants will have the competitive advantage to exploit the available methane.

Iron is not oxygen. Manganese is not oxygen. Arsenic is not oxygen. There is no such chemical as arsenate arsenic.

Stop spamming.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
11-05-2024 19:19
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21959)
sealover wrote:
Rush showed us the scientific proof that global warming was a hoax.


Science has no proofs.

You, like other believers in the Church of Global Warming, ignore theories of science. You also ignore mathematics. In your case, you also think meaningless buzzwords is 'chemistry'.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
11-05-2024 19:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21959)
sealover wrote:
I do not speak for Rush Limbaugh.

Blatant lie. You cannot speak for the dead.
sealover wrote:
There was buzz in the scientific community about a new article in Nature.

Rush didn't provide the volume number or pages, but he named the journal as "Nature".

He wanted to play up that is was perhaps in a tie for the world's most prestigious peer-reviewed scientific journal, and the article supported the Rush Limbaugh Paradigm.

Science is not a journal or magazine.
sealover wrote:
You see, in those rare cases when they believe that science is on their side, suddenly scientists become credible after all.

Science has no 'sides'. Science is not scientists.
sealover wrote:
Like when they correctly measured surface temperatures
in the year following the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo. But ONLY during THAT year

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
11-05-2024 19:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21959)
sealover wrote:
Clearing deep rooted perennials for pasture...

Nitrogen is not a tributary.
Ammonium is not a chemical.
Nitrate is not a chemical.
Ammonium nitrate is a chemical. It is not an anion. It is an oxidizer (a lousy one, since it's hygroscopic).
Ammonium nitrate is not nitrogen.

Stop spamming.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
11-05-2024 19:30
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21959)
sealover wrote:
Wild ideas in science are not always wrong.

Stop spamming.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
11-05-2024 19:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21959)
sealover wrote:
Occasional massive fish kills ...

Stop spamming.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
13-05-2024 19:53
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning2/3 way down on page 3, continuing on to page 4.

Multiple biogeochemistry investigations are described in this thread.

"sea lover" is a PhD biogeochemist who identified bedrock nitrogen as the source of high nitrate in stream water, as cited by Rush Limbaugh.

The four consecutive posts above this one (right above the "stop spamming" post) detail that story.




What Rush Limbaugh Cited as Mother Nature's Fault. Reference.

1998. Contribution of bedrock nitrogen to high nitrate in stream water.
Nature. 395:785-788.



Occasional massive fish kills in a reservoir impacted drinking water quality for nearly a million consumers.

Excess nitrogen in the water, in the form of nitrate, was fertilizing algae blooms.

As old algae died and decomposed, microorganisms consumed so much oxygen that there wasn't enough left to keep the fish alive.

The false accusation was that forest management practices were causing nitrogen to enter the river as runoff.

In fact, the source of the nitrogen was bedrock in a very limited area of the watershed.

An area precisely where the Mother Lode of California Goldrush fame is located.
13-05-2024 21:34
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21959)
Repetition fallacy. Stop spamming.
18-05-2024 11:42
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
All the most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning2/3 way down on page 3, continuing on to page 4.

Multiple biogeochemistry investigations are described in this thread.

"sea lover" is a PhD biogeochemist who identified bedrock nitrogen as the source of high nitrate in stream water, as cited by Rush Limbaugh.

The four consecutive posts above this one (right above the "stop spamming" post) detail that story.




What Rush Limbaugh Cited as Mother Nature's Fault. Reference.

1998. Contribution of bedrock nitrogen to high nitrate in stream water.
Nature. 395:785-788.



Occasional massive fish kills in a reservoir impacted drinking water quality for nearly a million consumers.

Excess nitrogen in the water, in the form of nitrate, was fertilizing algae blooms.

As old algae died and decomposed, microorganisms consumed so much oxygen that there wasn't enough left to keep the fish alive.

The false accusation was that forest management practices were causing nitrogen to enter the river as runoff.

In fact, the source of the nitrogen was bedrock in a very limited area of the watershed.

An area precisely where the Mother Lode of California Goldrush fame is located.

Relevant posts of thread are compiled, beginning 2/3 way down page 3
18-05-2024 23:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21959)
Stop spamming.
Page 4 of 4<<<234





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