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River Level Surge13-01-2021 20:40
James___
★★★★★
(3800)
This is an attempt to explain what might be happening with the Gulf Stream (https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/gulf-stream).
Most people are familiar with rivers overflowing their banks/levees. This link is to give an idea of a river flooding the land around it, it's the 1st image (https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/climate-change-shifting-when-europes-rivers-flood).
With flooding of this type, there is a surge which is known as the high water mark. With a storm surge which can flood places like London and Venice among other cities, with a river the surge flows or moves along the flow of the river.
With the Gulf Stream, the wind can play a role in sea level just as a rising seafloor can have the same effect.
The Guyana current which feeds the Gulf Stream is a part of the thermohaline circulation. That's the world's ocean current. They say it takes about 800 years for water to circulate through it one time.
My query is if the rising tectonic plates, both the Eurasian and North American tectonic plates are rising in the arctic, how does this influence the Gulf Stream?
This is getting into AMOC (Atlantic meridional overturning circulation). When this causes the Gulf Stream to slow, is it possible that what might be the faster moving current to the south creates a surge? Think a traffic jam here.
After all, there is more volume in the south of the AMOC than there is in the north.
Since you guys aren't very literate about earth sciences, this is something that's basic. A lot of the warmth in the north comes from AMOC. I will suggest 2 different reasons.
The 1st is obvious, it's transporting equatorial heat northward.
The 2nd is this demonstrates that our ocean can store heat content.
This is why I suggested following increased hurricane activity in the US northward along the AMOC to see if there is a noticeable change in the weather. And with me, I think a noticeable surge in significant hurricanes that ended in the US in 2005 is a change in the weather.

With Perth, Australia, it's 32º south latitude. Why does that matter? Both it's air and sea currents come from what could be considered the Southern Ocean. If you look south from the Nullabor Plain, you're looking at it. This is different than a current originating at Africa's southern tip and ending up in the Arctic. It just allows for more heat to be transported.

But as I mentioned, the Gulf Stream is basic earth science. The geology that can affect it's flow, it helps to understand that there are tectonic plates.


p.s., this is a climate debate forum. Discussing how the seafloor in the Arctic can rise affects the Gulf Stream is a valid topic. If I were to discuss how the hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica affects the Southern Oscillation which influences much of Australia's weather, then those subjects are "on topic".
An example of the Southern Oscillation in North American terms, how does a polar vortex shifting because of less ozone influence North America? Seattle's weather won't change much while the the middle and southeast United States might become quite a bit colder.
An El Nino might be a better example for the US because there will be flooding in California. But that is not considering the effects of ozone depletion on Jet Streams.


p.s.s., this is where ITN would have a valid point about not enough observations. With the Gulf Stream, it's doubtful that it's flow has been properly documented for scientific purposes. Could be why it's not receiving more attention than it is.
Edited on 13-01-2021 20:50
14-01-2021 07:50
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(919)
In 1928 the Thames flooded much of central London, with fatal consequences. It was the last time the heart of the UK's capital has been under water. ... The date was 7 January 1928. There was no early warning system to wake householders, no Thames Barrier to protect the city from tidal surges.Feb 16, 2014
I have just watched David attenboroughs climate change the facts and all the flooding footage is people in sarongs and the houses are on stilts.Why is it so?
14-01-2021 16:02
James___
★★★★★
(3800)
duncan61 wrote:
In 1928 the Thames flooded much of central London, with fatal consequences. It was the last time the heart of the UK's capital has been under water. ... The date was 7 January 1928. There was no early warning system to wake householders, no Thames Barrier to protect the city from tidal surges.Feb 16, 2014
I have just watched David attenboroughs climate change the facts and all the flooding footage is people in sarongs and the houses are on stilts.Why is it so?



I'm discussing geology and it's influence on the Gulf Stream. It is a well known fact that the Gulf Stream transports equatorial heat. This heat helps to warm many countries on the eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean.
And since the Gulf Stream is slowing, will it quit flowing as far as the arctic or even to where some of it flows near or into the North Sea? If so, would the loss of heat from the Gulf Stream change the weather? It would.
What was it David Attenborough talked about? Was it the Gulf Stream? If not, then your comment is off topic.
Edited on 14-01-2021 16:08
14-01-2021 20:49
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
James___ wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
In 1928 the Thames flooded much of central London, with fatal consequences. It was the last time the heart of the UK's capital has been under water. ... The date was 7 January 1928. There was no early warning system to wake householders, no Thames Barrier to protect the city from tidal surges.Feb 16, 2014
I have just watched David attenboroughs climate change the facts and all the flooding footage is people in sarongs and the houses are on stilts.Why is it so?



I'm discussing geology and it's influence on the Gulf Stream. It is a well known fact that the Gulf Stream transports equatorial heat. This heat helps to warm many countries on the eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean.
And since the Gulf Stream is slowing, will it quit flowing as far as the arctic or even to where some of it flows near or into the North Sea? If so, would the loss of heat from the Gulf Stream change the weather? It would.
What was it David Attenborough talked about? Was it the Gulf Stream? If not, then your comment is off topic.

The Gulf Stream doesn't go near the eastern Atlantic.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
14-01-2021 21:16
James___
★★★★★
(3800)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
In 1928 the Thames flooded much of central London, with fatal consequences. It was the last time the heart of the UK's capital has been under water. ... The date was 7 January 1928. There was no early warning system to wake householders, no Thames Barrier to protect the city from tidal surges.Feb 16, 2014
I have just watched David attenboroughs climate change the facts and all the flooding footage is people in sarongs and the houses are on stilts.Why is it so?



I'm discussing geology and it's influence on the Gulf Stream. It is a well known fact that the Gulf Stream transports equatorial heat. This heat helps to warm many countries on the eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean.
And since the Gulf Stream is slowing, will it quit flowing as far as the arctic or even to where some of it flows near or into the North Sea? If so, would the loss of heat from the Gulf Stream change the weather? It would.
What was it David Attenborough talked about? Was it the Gulf Stream? If not, then your comment is off topic.

The Gulf Stream doesn't go near the eastern Atlantic.



The current has different names. It's also the Guyana current. It's just that when it picks up a lot of heat they call it the Gulf Stream. They say it's slowing down. This should start to cool the arctic.
Where it shows the current going north, when that turns east instead, then the equatorial heat will stay further south. Might help it to rain in Florida. After all, it is the Sunshine State.

Attached image:

14-01-2021 23:07
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
In 1928 the Thames flooded much of central London, with fatal consequences. It was the last time the heart of the UK's capital has been under water. ... The date was 7 January 1928. There was no early warning system to wake householders, no Thames Barrier to protect the city from tidal surges.Feb 16, 2014
I have just watched David attenboroughs climate change the facts and all the flooding footage is people in sarongs and the houses are on stilts.Why is it so?



I'm discussing geology and it's influence on the Gulf Stream. It is a well known fact that the Gulf Stream transports equatorial heat. This heat helps to warm many countries on the eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean.
And since the Gulf Stream is slowing, will it quit flowing as far as the arctic or even to where some of it flows near or into the North Sea? If so, would the loss of heat from the Gulf Stream change the weather? It would.
What was it David Attenborough talked about? Was it the Gulf Stream? If not, then your comment is off topic.

The Gulf Stream doesn't go near the eastern Atlantic.



The current has different names. It's also the Guyana current. It's just that when it picks up a lot of heat they call it the Gulf Stream. They say it's slowing down. This should start to cool the arctic.
Where it shows the current going north, when that turns east instead, then the equatorial heat will stay further south. Might help it to rain in Florida. After all, it is the Sunshine State.

A current with a different name from the Gulf Stream is not the Gulf Stream.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
14-01-2021 23:59
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
In 1928 the Thames flooded much of central London, with fatal consequences. It was the last time the heart of the UK's capital has been under water. ... The date was 7 January 1928. There was no early warning system to wake householders, no Thames Barrier to protect the city from tidal surges.Feb 16, 2014
I have just watched David attenboroughs climate change the facts and all the flooding footage is people in sarongs and the houses are on stilts.Why is it so?



I'm discussing geology and it's influence on the Gulf Stream. It is a well known fact that the Gulf Stream transports equatorial heat. This heat helps to warm many countries on the eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean.
And since the Gulf Stream is slowing, will it quit flowing as far as the arctic or even to where some of it flows near or into the North Sea? If so, would the loss of heat from the Gulf Stream change the weather? It would.
What was it David Attenborough talked about? Was it the Gulf Stream? If not, then your comment is off topic.

The Gulf Stream doesn't go near the eastern Atlantic.


An image of the Gulf Stream from shutter stock.




15-01-2021 00:51
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
Spongy Iris wrote: An image of the Gulf Stream from shutter stock.

That is not an image of the Gulf Stream. That is a graphical map of the Gulf Stream's path, accuracy notwithstanding.

This is an image of a bus:



This is a map of its route:



.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-01-2021 01:15
James___
★★★★★
(3800)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
In 1928 the Thames flooded much of central London, with fatal consequences. It was the last time the heart of the UK's capital has been under water. ... The date was 7 January 1928. There was no early warning system to wake householders, no Thames Barrier to protect the city from tidal surges.Feb 16, 2014
I have just watched David attenboroughs climate change the facts and all the flooding footage is people in sarongs and the houses are on stilts.Why is it so?



I'm discussing geology and it's influence on the Gulf Stream. It is a well known fact that the Gulf Stream transports equatorial heat. This heat helps to warm many countries on the eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean.
And since the Gulf Stream is slowing, will it quit flowing as far as the arctic or even to where some of it flows near or into the North Sea? If so, would the loss of heat from the Gulf Stream change the weather? It would.
What was it David Attenborough talked about? Was it the Gulf Stream? If not, then your comment is off topic.

The Gulf Stream doesn't go near the eastern Atlantic.


An image of the Gulf Stream from shutter stock.




I've read where it's slowed by 20%. If it keeps continuing then maybe one day where it overturns will be west of Spain?
15-01-2021 01:40
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(919)
James wrote
With a storm surge which can flood places like London and Venice among other cities, with a river the surge flows or moves along the flow of the river.

I responded to this.How is it off topic
15-01-2021 02:20
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
If the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates are rising in the Arctic, does that mean The North plates are drifting from the South plates?



The North American tectonic plate extends all the way to South America apparently...


15-01-2021 02:30
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
Spongy Iris wrote:If the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates are rising in the Arctic


Question for you: Since the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates are not rising, what does that imply?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-01-2021 02:32
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(480)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:If the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates are rising in the Arctic


Question for you: Since the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates are not rising, what does that imply?


.


James said otherwise "both the Eurasian and North American tectonic plates are rising in the arctic"



Edited on 15-01-2021 02:33
15-01-2021 04:21
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:If the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates are rising in the Arctic
Question for you: Since the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates are not rising, what does that imply?.

James said otherwise "both the Eurasian and North American tectonic plates are rising in the arctic"


The question was what does their NOT rising imply?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-01-2021 04:56
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
In 1928 the Thames flooded much of central London, with fatal consequences. It was the last time the heart of the UK's capital has been under water. ... The date was 7 January 1928. There was no early warning system to wake householders, no Thames Barrier to protect the city from tidal surges.Feb 16, 2014
I have just watched David attenboroughs climate change the facts and all the flooding footage is people in sarongs and the houses are on stilts.Why is it so?



I'm discussing geology and it's influence on the Gulf Stream. It is a well known fact that the Gulf Stream transports equatorial heat. This heat helps to warm many countries on the eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean.
And since the Gulf Stream is slowing, will it quit flowing as far as the arctic or even to where some of it flows near or into the North Sea? If so, would the loss of heat from the Gulf Stream change the weather? It would.
What was it David Attenborough talked about? Was it the Gulf Stream? If not, then your comment is off topic.

The Gulf Stream doesn't go near the eastern Atlantic.


An image of the Gulf Stream from shutter stock.


This image is wrong.

The North Equatorial Current is a warm current extending from near Africa to the Caribbean, dumping into the Antilles Current, flowing from the Caribbean to around Florida, where it feeds the Gulf Stream. This warm current flows along the east coast of the United States from Florida to about New York or so. There it stops as the water is cooled and sinks. A slow moving eastward cold current called the Atlantic Drift moves along the Atlantic eastward, heading essentially for Spain or France. Before reaching the European continent, this current splits in two, some going south, called the Canary Current (a cold current), and some going north, called the Norwegian Warm Current (it's warm water compared to usual Norwegian waters!). The Canary Current flows south along the European western coast, from Spain down to Africa, returning those waters to the beginning again.


The counter current to the Norwegian Warm Current is the East Greenland cold current, which feeds into the Labrador cold current, eventually dumping back into the Atlantic Drift current.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 15-01-2021 05:08
15-01-2021 05:00
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
James___ wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
[quote]duncan61 wrote:
In 1928 the Thames flooded much of central London, with fatal consequences. It was the last time the heart of the UK's capital has been under water. ... The date was 7 January 1928. There was no early warning system to wake householders, no Thames Barrier to protect the city from tidal surges.Feb 16, 2014
I have just watched David attenboroughs climate change the facts and all the flooding footage is people in sarongs and the houses are on stilts.Why is it so?



I'm discussing geology and it's influence on the Gulf Stream. It is a well known fact that the Gulf Stream transports equatorial heat. This heat helps to warm many countries on the eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean.
And since the Gulf Stream is slowing, will it quit flowing as far as the arctic or even to where some of it flows near or into the North Sea? If so, would the loss of heat from the Gulf Stream change the weather? It would.
What was it David Attenborough talked about? Was it the Gulf Stream? If not, then your comment is off topic.

The Gulf Stream doesn't go near the eastern Atlantic.




I've read where it's slowed by 20%. If it keeps continuing then maybe one day where it overturns will be west of Spain?


The Gulf Stream does not go anywhere near Spain. It is not slowing either. The Sun still warms the equator more than around Greenland, you see.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 15-01-2021 05:04
15-01-2021 06:08
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8114)
James___ wrote: I've read where it's slowed by 20%.

I read the same thing.

The Jet Stream is slowed 12.68% by climate forcings alone driving impedence in the lower stratosphere.

Another 5.44% of slowing is caused by the propagation signals of the polar vortex inversion caused by the tectonic plates rising over Greenland.

The remaining 1.88% of slowing comes from the thermal backdrafts pushing thermal energy flows from the polar tundra into the equatorial heat sinks.

It's totally thettled thienth. Totally. Dude.

James___ wrote: If it keeps continuing then maybe one day where it overturns will be west of Spain?

The Jet Stream can't overturn west of Spain because they have Jersey barriers up to keep that from happening. It's more likely to run out of cash to pay the tolls.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-01-2021 16:30
James___
★★★★★
(3800)
And we're back to natural climate variation in the northern hemisphere.
What would be something to consider is that as less heat is transported towards the arctic causes the Sargosa Sea to become smaller.
Then winds across the Atlantic moving west to east (from Between New York and Maine to the ocean) could head towards Africa. This is because they could follow warmer waters, highs in the atmosphere. If you consider that hurricanes start in Africa as storms. Then they become tropical storms then hurricanes.
Cooler in the north, hotter in the south. Just a redistribution of heat content.
15-01-2021 16:42
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1614)
Where's your map of the Norwegian Jet Stream?
15-01-2021 16:43
James___
★★★★★
(3800)
This link is about sailing the Atlantic in the northern hemisphere. https://improvesailing.com/questions/sail-atlantic
The wind pattern shows one arm of the Gulf Stream that flows towards France and further north while the wind also loosely follows the Saragosa Sea, it splits into 2 different flows.
And basically eventually even in summer Europe would be cooler as a result. At the moment, if stored heat content is being released by the Gulf Stream (as it slows, it's kinetic energy decreases, heat is released), that effect over time would move further south. I guess this is where watching ocean surface temperatures along the current crossing the Atlantic at the equator flowing north to Florida would be worth watching.
Edited on 15-01-2021 16:47
16-01-2021 12:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(14592)
James___ wrote:
This link is about sailing the Atlantic in the northern hemisphere. https://improvesailing.com/questions/sail-atlantic
The wind pattern shows one arm of the Gulf Stream that flows towards France and further north while the wind also loosely follows the Saragosa Sea, it splits into 2 different flows.
And basically eventually even in summer Europe would be cooler as a result. At the moment, if stored heat content is being released by the Gulf Stream (as it slows, it's kinetic energy decreases, heat is released), that effect over time would move further south. I guess this is where watching ocean surface temperatures along the current crossing the Atlantic at the equator flowing north to Florida would be worth watching.


The Gulf Stream doesn't go anywhere near France. It does not go anywhere near Europe at all.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
16-01-2021 16:07
James___
★★★★★
(3800)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
This link is about sailing the Atlantic in the northern hemisphere. https://improvesailing.com/questions/sail-atlantic
The wind pattern shows one arm of the Gulf Stream that flows towards France and further north while the wind also loosely follows the Saragosa Sea, it splits into 2 different flows.
And basically eventually even in summer Europe would be cooler as a result. At the moment, if stored heat content is being released by the Gulf Stream (as it slows, it's kinetic energy decreases, heat is released), that effect over time would move further south. I guess this is where watching ocean surface temperatures along the current crossing the Atlantic at the equator flowing north to Florida would be worth watching.


The Gulf Stream doesn't go anywhere near France. It does not go anywhere near Europe at all.



Now ITN, when you haven't been to Europe, how can you know where it is? All you do is get on a boat sailing (a term still used today from when schooners and clippers were used) from Virginia and go with the flow of the ocean. The water is nice and warm and it will take you to Europe. I wasn't on a sailboat when I went to Europe on a boat.




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