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Restoring Alkalinity to the Ocean



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RE: An unambiguous definition for "microplastics"11-05-2022 01:57
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
duncan61 wrote:
I am not seeing the problems you are.I have no faith in the media.Yesterday I read an article in the paper that started with everytime you walk on the beach you are walking on micro plastics.I was at Cottesloe and all I could see was sand.It went on to cry about all the reefs bleaching and they have not.Apparently if we vote in Labor and the green party it will all get better



Perhaps it would help if we had an unambiguous definition for "microplastics".

The "plastics" part is the material they are made of.

The "micro" part is in regard to particle size.

These microplastics are, by definition, microscopic.

This may help to explain why they are not visible to the naked eye on the beach.

They are everywhere now, including the food chain.
11-05-2022 02:25
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(11757)
squeal over's sock wrote:These microplastics are, by definition, microscopic.

... or they don't exist in the first place, i.e. it's just the next panic ploy to spark fear of something unseen.

Yeah, I think that's what it is.

squeal over's sock wrote:This may help to explain why they are not visible to the naked eye on the beach.

... because they don't exist.

squeal over's sock wrote:They are everywhere now, including the food chain.

Why should any rational adult believe this?
RE: Next time you walk on the beach11-05-2022 02:39
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
duncan61 wrote:
I am not seeing the problems you are.I have no faith in the media.Yesterday I read an article in the paper that started with everytime you walk on the beach you are walking on micro plastics.I was at Cottesloe and all I could see was sand.It went on to cry about all the reefs bleaching and they have not.Apparently if we vote in Labor and the green party it will all get better




Next time you walk on the beach, you can do an experiment.

Walk up to the high water mark, where the waves went up the farthest at the last high tide.

Brush off the dry floaty stuff from the surface of the sand.

Collect a sample of sand from the top and take it home.

Put that sand in water and see what floats to the top.

Most microplastics are less dense than water.

Too small to see individual particles, you will see a faint cloud as the dusty little things float to the top.

If you can get a microscope, you can collect the fine dust that floated to the top, and you can see what microplastics look like.

There will be naturally occurring objects as well, and they tend to look natural.

And there will be odd shaped tiny fragments of plastic that don't look natural.
11-05-2022 02:49
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(11757)
squeal over's sock wrote:
Put that sand in water and see what floats to the top. ... If you can get a microscope, you can collect the fine dust that floated to the top, and you can see what microplastics look like.

That won't be microplastics. I don't even think these "microplastics" even exist.

What you will find in beach sand is/are dissolved salts, proteins, fats and a bunch of dead algae. It's what makes ocean water foam. The stuff that makes ocean water foam of course gets into the sand.
RE: photos of marine microplastics from a credible source11-05-2022 05:58
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
duncan61 wrote:
I am not seeing the problems you are.I have no faith in the media.Yesterday I read an article in the paper that started with everytime you walk on the beach you are walking on micro plastics.I was at Cottesloe and all I could see was sand.It went on to cry about all the reefs bleaching and they have not.Apparently if we vote in Labor and the green party it will all get better



Photos of marine microplastics from a credible source.

Duncan61, you have displayed the ability to locate credible sources of information, such as the accurate description of what biogeochemistry is.

You gained my respect from the start as a member who does not feel the need to hurl personal insults.

More respect for the ability to rationally discern what constitutes objective evidence, versus absurd conspiracy theories or flat out anti reality lies.

There are credible sources for photos of marine microplastics.

They sure don't look like plankton, or anything else of biological origin.

Microplastics of all different colors, with randomly fractured edges.

Like little translucent pieces of colored glass.

Unlike anything Mother Nature puts in the sea.

Biogeochemistry might even be of some value here.

Some of our plastics would make good food for bacteria, if they could just make the right enzymes.

Some of our plastics don't have to be dehalogenated under anaerobic conditions before they can be edible.

They would provide the bug with a decent, energy yielding meal if they just had the right enzyme.

We've known how to selectively breed organisms for desired traits for thousands of years.

We've only had plastics in the environment for a few generations.
11-05-2022 07:44
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(11757)
squeal over's sock wrote:Photos of marine microplastics from a credible source.

... because the source of a photograph is what matters, not the photograph itself.

One would have to be truly gullible to fall for this. Let's see if you get any takers.

squeal over's sock wrote:Duncan61, you have displayed the ability to locate credible sources of information, such as the accurate description of what biogeochemistry is.

He mindlessly copy-pasted.

squeal over's sock wrote:You gained my respect from the start as a member who ...

... will mindlessly copy-paste.

By the way, duncan hurls petty insults. Where have you been?

squeal over's sock wrote:More respect for the ability to rationally discern what constitutes objective evidence, versus absurd conspiracy theories or flat out anti reality lies.

Too funny! WACKY conspiracy theories are all duncan embraces. Science he denies on sight.

squeal over's sock wrote:There are credible sources for photos of marine microplastics.

They don't exist as you describe. Any "microplastics" in the ocean would be immediately broken down and poof! ... gone.

squeal over's sock wrote:They sure don't look like plankton, or anything else of biological origin.

Then it is a staged photo and not credible.

squeal over's sock wrote:Biogeochemistry might even be of some value here.

It might be of value to someone who needs that particular religion.

squeal over's sock wrote:Some of our plastics would make good food for bacteria, if they could just make the right enzymes.

The ocean will break it down. I would have thought that a professed preacher of biogeocarpentry would avoid underestimating the power of the ocean.

You should expand your understanding of nature.
11-05-2022 13:04
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1729)
Sealover
I will be there tomorrow so I will take a sample and do what you have described.I am confident with the size of the ocean V the amount of plastic claimed I may struggle to find anything conclusive

I like this forum and its not personnel to me.It affects my life not at all.Thank you for suggesting field work I had not considered.If I find nothing I will send a sample to a lab.Suggestions
11-05-2022 17:53
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
IBdaMann wrote:
The ocean will break it down. I would have thought that a professed preacher of biogeocarpentry would avoid underestimating the power of the ocean.

You should expand your understanding of nature.


It is ironic that this so-called 'expert' on bacteria can't figure out the bacteria that each such plastic in pretty short order. It's the same ones that eat oil slicks.

Yup. Poof...it's gone.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
11-05-2022 20:38
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(11757)
Into the Night wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
The ocean will break it down. I would have thought that a professed preacher of biogeocarpentry would avoid underestimating the power of the ocean.

You should expand your understanding of nature.


It is ironic that this so-called 'expert' on bacteria can't figure out the bacteria that each such plastic in pretty short order. It's the same ones that eat oil slicks.

Yup. Poof...it's gone.

Absolutely, but such bacteria is only one of the forces out there. The ocean's constant churning of the alkaline and saline water will destroy anything eventually.

But apparently, biogeocrybabies think plastic is somehow invulnerable.

.
11-05-2022 23:00
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1729)
I had a magnificent lunch overlooking Cottesloe beach and all I could see is sand.I was reading the west paper and next to the letters page was an article on plastics in the ocean.It claimed when Australians pick up sand on the beach they are picking up micro plastics in the sand.I am going looking for this stuff.
RE: Give me some time for suggestions11-05-2022 23:44
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
duncan61 wrote:
Sealover
I will be there tomorrow so I will take a sample and do what you have described.I am confident with the size of the ocean V the amount of plastic claimed I may struggle to find anything conclusive

I like this forum and its not personnel to me.It affects my life not at all.Thank you for suggesting field work I had not considered.If I find nothing I will send a sample to a lab.Suggestions



Give me some time for suggestions.

I would like to either look up or contemplate simple tests you could do at home with a sand sample from the high water mark. Such as a solvent you might have at home that dissolves plastic, but not the naturally occurring objects that floated to the top.

A few more thoughts.

Not all of the components in an oil spill are less dense than water.

The black carbon that gets separated out as petroleum coke is MORE dense than water.

After the last big oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, two contaminant plumes were monitored.

One was floating on the surface, blown by the wind, and carried by the surface current.

The other was snaking its way along the seafloor. Heavy with black carbon, this part of the oil spill sank to the bottom, where currents flow differently than at the surface, and gravity pulled the stuff downhill along the paths of least resistance along the seafloor.

Some bacteria have been successfully bred to degrade many of the alkanes in petroleum.

All alkanes have the same basic chemical formula, C(n)H(2n +2).

Methane, CH4 = C(n)H(2n+2) up to the paraffins C(100)H(202).

The chains vary in length, but their chemistry along the way is uniform.

All single bonds, either C-C or C-H.

So, selectively breeding for one good enzyme wasn't so tough.

Plastics are another story. Lots of C=C double bonds. Depending on the plastic, other ingredients such as oxygen, halogens, etc.

An alkane degrading enzyme can't touch them.

Polyethylene and polypropylene might be the easiest ones to start with, as far as accelerating the evolution of new enzymes go.

Then, the bacteria can do the clean up work for us, if it turns out that the "problem" is not imaginary.

The halogenated xenobiotics are a tougher nut to crack, but much successful work has been done by creating extreme reducing conditions and utilizing bacteria that can perform reductive dehalogenation, when provided with carbohydrate or other energy-rich organic carbon food source.

Then upon return to aerobic oxidizing conditions, other bacteria easily clean up the leftovers.
11-05-2022 23:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
IBdaMann wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
The ocean will break it down. I would have thought that a professed preacher of biogeocarpentry would avoid underestimating the power of the ocean.

You should expand your understanding of nature.


It is ironic that this so-called 'expert' on bacteria can't figure out the bacteria that each such plastic in pretty short order. It's the same ones that eat oil slicks.

Yup. Poof...it's gone.

Absolutely, but such bacteria is only one of the forces out there. The ocean's constant churning of the alkaline and saline water will destroy anything eventually.

But apparently, biogeocrybabies think plastic is somehow invulnerable.

.

UV light also breaks down all plastics, although polymerization of some plastics can be triggered by exposure to UVa light.

So-called 'microplastics' just means more surface area for such light to break it down. It is no longer plastic.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 11-05-2022 23:57
12-05-2022 00:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Im a BM wrote:
[quote]duncan61 wrote:
Sealover
I will be there tomorrow so I will take a sample and do what you have described.I am confident with the size of the ocean V the amount of plastic claimed I may struggle to find anything conclusive

I like this forum and its not personnel to me.It affects my life not at all.Thank you for suggesting field work I had not considered.If I find nothing I will send a sample to a lab.Suggestions



Give me some time for suggestions.

I would like to either look up or contemplate simple tests you could do at home with a sand sample from the high water mark. Such as a solvent you might have at home that dissolves plastic, but not the naturally occurring objects that floated to the top.

A few more thoughts.

Not all of the components in an oil spill are less dense than water.
Im a BM wrote:
The black carbon that gets separated out as petroleum coke is MORE dense than water.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
After the last big oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, two contaminant plumes were monitored.

One was floating on the surface, blown by the wind, and carried by the surface current.

The other was snaking its way along the seafloor. Heavy with black carbon, this part of the oil spill sank to the bottom, where currents flow differently than at the surface, and gravity pulled the stuff downhill along the paths of least resistance along the seafloor.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
Some bacteria have been successfully bred to degrade many of the alkanes in petroleum.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
All alkanes have the same basic chemical formula, C(n)H(2n +2).

Methane, CH4 = C(n)H(2n+2) up to the paraffins C(100)H(202).

The chains vary in length, but their chemistry along the way is uniform.

All single bonds, either C-C or C-H.

So, selectively breeding for one good enzyme wasn't so tough.

Plastics are another story. Lots of C=C double bonds. Depending on the plastic, other ingredients such as oxygen, halogens, etc.

An alkane degrading enzyme can't touch them.

Polyethylene and polypropylene might be the easiest ones to start with, as far as accelerating the evolution of new enzymes go.

Then, the bacteria can do the clean up work for us, if it turns out that the "problem" is not imaginary.

The halogenated xenobiotics are a tougher nut to crack, but much successful work has been done by creating extreme reducing conditions and utilizing bacteria that can perform reductive dehalogenation, when provided with carbohydrate or other energy-rich organic carbon food source.

Then upon return to aerobic oxidizing conditions, other bacteria easily clean up the leftovers.

Still denying that bacteria eats plastic, eh? What a moron.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
RE: maybe add one drop of gasoline12-05-2022 00:02
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
duncan61 wrote:
Sealover
I will be there tomorrow so I will take a sample and do what you have described.I am confident with the size of the ocean V the amount of plastic claimed I may struggle to find anything conclusive

I like this forum and its not personnel to me.It affects my life not at all.Thank you for suggesting field work I had not considered.If I find nothing I will send a sample to a lab.Suggestions



maybe add one drop of gasoline.

Gasoline is almost 100% heptane and octane.

These two alkanes are basically inert for spontaneous chemical reactions other than combustion with oxygen.

They are also pretty good solvents for polyethylene and polypropylene.

So, if you can get a good look at a slide under a microscope, first get a good look at all the visible objects.

Add one drop of gasoline and wait a while.

Put the cover slide back on and see how many of them dissolved.
12-05-2022 00:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Im a BM wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Sealover
I will be there tomorrow so I will take a sample and do what you have described.I am confident with the size of the ocean V the amount of plastic claimed I may struggle to find anything conclusive

I like this forum and its not personnel to me.It affects my life not at all.Thank you for suggesting field work I had not considered.If I find nothing I will send a sample to a lab.Suggestions



maybe add one drop of gasoline.

Gasoline is almost 100% heptane and octane.

These two alkanes are basically inert for spontaneous chemical reactions other than combustion with oxygen.

They are also pretty good solvents for polyethylene and polypropylene.

So, if you can get a good look at a slide under a microscope, first get a good look at all the visible objects.

Add one drop of gasoline and wait a while.

Put the cover slide back on and see how many of them dissolved.

Must be why we use polyethylene fuel tanks.

What a moron. You obviously don't know the first thing about plastics.
Gasoline is not pure heptane and octane. Obviously you don't know the first thing about petroleum products.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 12-05-2022 00:08
RE: gasoline will dissolve many microplastics12-05-2022 00:42
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
Im a BM wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Sealover
I will be there tomorrow so I will take a sample and do what you have described.I am confident with the size of the ocean V the amount of plastic claimed I may struggle to find anything conclusive

I like this forum and its not personnel to me.It affects my life not at all.Thank you for suggesting field work I had not considered.If I find nothing I will send a sample to a lab.Suggestions



maybe add one drop of gasoline.

Gasoline is almost 100% heptane and octane.

These two alkanes are basically inert for spontaneous chemical reactions other than combustion with oxygen.

They are also pretty good solvents for polyethylene and polypropylene.

So, if you can get a good look at a slide under a microscope, first get a good look at all the visible objects.

Add one drop of gasoline and wait a while.

Put the cover slide back on and see how many of them dissolved.



The off the cuff suggestion certainly applies to polyethylene and polystyrene.

One drop of gasoline will dissolve these two common plastics, and others.

Polypropylene and polyurethane, not so much...

The color from the dissolved plastic, if they had color added, will bleed out.

There should be a visible difference under the microscope. Fewer particles, and more color in the matrix.

And if I do what I said and give it more thought and look up a few things, there are other simple things you could try at home.
RE: 1 drop gasoline and 1 drop nail polish remover12-05-2022 01:40
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
duncan61 wrote:
I had a magnificent lunch overlooking Cottesloe beach and all I could see is sand.I was reading the west paper and next to the letters page was an article on plastics in the ocean.It claimed when Australians pick up sand on the beach they are picking up micro plastics in the sand.I am going looking for this stuff.


Just so you know that I'm taking your question seriously.

And because I'd love to think up a triple cocktail of the kind of solvents one can find at home so that anyone else who is interested could try it.

Nail polish remover is most often acetone.

Acetone also dissolves many plastics, PVDF, polycarbonate, polysulfone, cast acrylic, PVC, and CPVC, among others.

The combo of gasoline and acetone will dissolve a wider array of plastics.

Now, to find a third household solvent to dissolve some of the others.
12-05-2022 01:53
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1729)
I have plumbing cleaning fluid. It takes the shine of of uPVC pipes before the solvent is applied. I will put the sand in a steel bowl then fill it up with cleaner and let it evaporate. The plastic may coagulate and be a lump at the bottom of the bowl.
12-05-2022 03:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Im a BM wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Sealover
I will be there tomorrow so I will take a sample and do what you have described.I am confident with the size of the ocean V the amount of plastic claimed I may struggle to find anything conclusive

I like this forum and its not personnel to me.It affects my life not at all.Thank you for suggesting field work I had not considered.If I find nothing I will send a sample to a lab.Suggestions



maybe add one drop of gasoline.

Gasoline is almost 100% heptane and octane.

These two alkanes are basically inert for spontaneous chemical reactions other than combustion with oxygen.

They are also pretty good solvents for polyethylene and polypropylene.

So, if you can get a good look at a slide under a microscope, first get a good look at all the visible objects.

Add one drop of gasoline and wait a while.

Put the cover slide back on and see how many of them dissolved.



The off the cuff suggestion certainly applies to polyethylene and polystyrene.

One drop of gasoline will dissolve these two common plastics, and others.

Polypropylene and polyurethane, not so much...

The color from the dissolved plastic, if they had color added, will bleed out.

There should be a visible difference under the microscope. Fewer particles, and more color in the matrix.

And if I do what I said and give it more thought and look up a few things, there are other simple things you could try at home.

Did you know that gasoline tanks are made of polyethylene?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
12-05-2022 03:17
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Im a BM wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I had a magnificent lunch overlooking Cottesloe beach and all I could see is sand.I was reading the west paper and next to the letters page was an article on plastics in the ocean.It claimed when Australians pick up sand on the beach they are picking up micro plastics in the sand.I am going looking for this stuff.


Just so you know that I'm taking your question seriously.

And because I'd love to think up a triple cocktail of the kind of solvents one can find at home so that anyone else who is interested could try it.

Nail polish remover is most often acetone.

Acetone also dissolves many plastics, PVDF, polycarbonate, polysulfone, cast acrylic, PVC, and CPVC, among others.

The combo of gasoline and acetone will dissolve a wider array of plastics.

Now, to find a third household solvent to dissolve some of the others.

Heat it, and you'll have Dip.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
RE: solvents to dissolve plastic but require high temperature12-05-2022 03:33
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
duncan61 wrote:
I have plumbing cleaning fluid. It takes the shine of of uPVC pipes before the solvent is applied. I will put the sand in a steel bowl then fill it up with cleaner and let it evaporate. The plastic may coagulate and be a lump at the bottom of the bowl.



Hi duncan61

I'm not real big on recycling plastic.

It would be better not to make most of it in the first place.

The TV ads hyping how great the plastic recycling is for the world usually forget to mention that they only catch a very small fraction, less than 10%, of the total.

The sure fire techniques to dissolve plastics such as polyethylene and polypropylene generally require about 160 degrees Centigrade to work.

You probably don't have any xylene or 1, 2, 4 - trichlorobenzene at home.

But it's a chance to preach about the hazards of recycling plastic.

In the 1980s, before plastic waste was everywhere...

Some poor folks in poor countries did this at home.

They collected plastic waste, washed it, and dried it.

Then they added their non polar or chlorinated benzene solvent and heated it up, breathing poison in the process.

The "melted" (dissolved) plastic could then be molded into wash basins, etc.

I watched a guy get sick while doing it.

I'll get back to you with more ideas for home experiments.
12-05-2022 05:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Im a BM wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I have plumbing cleaning fluid. It takes the shine of of uPVC pipes before the solvent is applied. I will put the sand in a steel bowl then fill it up with cleaner and let it evaporate. The plastic may coagulate and be a lump at the bottom of the bowl.



Hi duncan61

I'm not real big on recycling plastic.

It would be better not to make most of it in the first place.

The TV ads hyping how great the plastic recycling is for the world usually forget to mention that they only catch a very small fraction, less than 10%, of the total.

The sure fire techniques to dissolve plastics such as polyethylene and polypropylene generally require about 160 degrees Centigrade to work.

You probably don't have any xylene or 1, 2, 4 - trichlorobenzene at home.

But it's a chance to preach about the hazards of recycling plastic.

In the 1980s, before plastic waste was everywhere...

Some poor folks in poor countries did this at home.

They collected plastic waste, washed it, and dried it.

Then they added their non polar or chlorinated benzene solvent and heated it up, breathing poison in the process.

The "melted" (dissolved) plastic could then be molded into wash basins, etc.

I watched a guy get sick while doing it.

I'll get back to you with more ideas for home experiments.

You make up stories faster than the Irish.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
RE: Halogenated xenobiotics in the ocean12-05-2022 06:19
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
Halogenated xenobiotics in the ocean.

Much attention is being paid to plastics in the ocean.

Some of these plastics, such as PVC (poly vinyl chloride), are very difficult to degrade because their molecular structure contains halogens such as chlorine.

Halogens include fluorine, chlorine, bromine, and iodine.

Many of the halogenated xenobiotics that humans have put in the ocean are not plastics.

Take DDT as a case study.

DDT is an insecticide that was once widely used in agriculture and other pest control.

Birds up the food chain, after feeding on insects and other critters that had sublethal doses of DDT in their bodies, ending up laying brittle eggs and bird populations plummeted.

Rachel Carson wrote the famous book "Silent Spring" about it.

She was wrong in her prediction that DDT would prove toxic to human beings.

The use of DDT in malaria control was never banned. Indeed, impoverished nations could still receive it free of charge.

As malaria vectors became resistant to DDT, its use was discontinued many places. Far better biological control methods are available.

But lacing mosquito tents with DDT is still very effective to protect people.

Okay, DDT is a halogenated xenobiotic. It has five chlorine atoms in its structure.

These chlorine atoms make it very difficult to degrade.

Some of the degradation products, such as DDMU, are toxic to humans where DDT is not.

Case study of DDT in the ocean.

Tons of DDT ended up in barrels on the sea floor off the coast of southern California. They were put there on purpose and they are still a problem.

Other tons of DDT ended up in the ocean sediments of the San Francisco Bay around the Port of Richmond, in northern California.

They were not put there on purpose.

It was the major loading center for DDT exports, and a lot of little accidents had deposited a lot of it in the water.

What to do about it?

Some say leave well enough alone. It's not going anywhere and it is more or less sealed off in sea floor sediments.

But they needed to dredge for port improvements so they couldn't just ignore the stuff.

One approach they attempted with partial success in the laboratory was to use a "white rot" fungus to treat the sediments.

White rot fungi can degrade lignin, which is no easy feat.

They only do so when they are desperate for nitrogen.

Tearing up the lignin costs a lot of energy, but it releases nitrogen from ligno-protein complexes.

So, they fed the fungi carbohydrate, starved it for nitrogen, and put it to work on the sediments.

They were able to tear up some of the DDT, but it proved to be relatively ineffective as a practical remediation measure.

The approach that worked better was to do something similar with bacteria.

Under extreme low oxygen, chemically reducing conditions, these bacteria use the halogen (chlorine) as oxidant to acquire energy from the oxidation of organic carbon.

They have to be fed carbohydrate from an outside source, but they can do it and do it well.

Then let oxygen come back into the sediments and other bacteria will degrade the leftovers.
12-05-2022 18:52
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Im a BM wrote:
Halogenated xenobiotics in the ocean.

Much attention is being paid to plastics in the ocean.

Some of these plastics, such as PVC (poly vinyl chloride), are very difficult to degrade because their molecular structure contains halogens such as chlorine.

Halogens include fluorine, chlorine, bromine, and iodine.

Many of the halogenated xenobiotics that humans have put in the ocean are not plastics.

Buzzword fallacies.
Im a BM wrote:
Take DDT as a case study.

DDT is an insecticide that was once widely used in agriculture and other pest control.

Birds up the food chain, after feeding on insects and other critters that had sublethal doses of DDT in their bodies, ending up laying brittle eggs and bird populations plummeted.

Fiction. It was a contrived 'experiment' done for political purposes.
Im a BM wrote:
Rachel Carson wrote the famous book "Silent Spring" about it.

A work of fiction.
Im a BM wrote:
She was wrong in her prediction that DDT would prove toxic to human beings.

The use of DDT in malaria control was never banned.
...deleted fiction and spam...

Yes it was in many countries. Many people died because of the ban.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
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