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Republican12-04-2020 03:56
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(466)
I discovered that The Republican party and Trump are not weighing in to the climate loonys and think it is a plot by China to reduce their power.Any thoughts anyone
12-04-2020 05:43
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
duncan61 wrote:
I discovered that The Republican party and Trump are not weighing in to the climate loonys and think it is a plot by China to reduce their power.Any thoughts anyone


I don't believe it's a plot, just a new addition to our seasonal respiratory illnesses. The first couple of years are bad, but we adapt, or die.

I do believe there are a lot of people taking advantage of a bad situation though. China, is just China, they figured they could contain it, without anybody finding out about their dirty little secrets. They eat bats...

The WHO, thought that China had it mostly contained, so thought it would be a great time to experiment on pandemic response. Than wanted to try a new approach, and see if they could keep the deaths under a million or so, common with these sorts of pandemics. The experiment isn't really doing so well, and likely to be a complete failure, and very costly, economically, and in human lives. Price of good science, is always high...
12-04-2020 06:10
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
duncan61 wrote:
I discovered that The Republican party and Trump are not weighing in to the climate loonys and think it is a plot by China to reduce their power.Any thoughts anyone


Wrong issue Harvey. Duncan said "climate" not "covid".

The "China climate plot" is laughably stupid. The Republican party would quickly distance themselves from it if an association were made (it has not been).

Trump is a moron so he has of course retweeted and indicated some belief in it.

There is a long list of dumb stuff Trump has associated himself with.

Here is Trump:
The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.

Here is the Republican Party:
Climate change is far from this nation's most pressing national security issue.
12-04-2020 12:00
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(466)
Thanks tmiddles that was what I was seeking.I will not get involved in debates on this site about covid and hope that soon regular posters can get back to climate topics.I have found heaps of other forums and am still into it big time.I have started my own survey on the general populations attitude to AGW and at this point most people I ask do not give a stuff and I have met a few like me that agree we could clean up our act but there is not the dramatic problem that is being claimed.I have just read an article on how all the animals in Africa will die and go extinct if the temperature goes up 2 degrees.Here in Perth yesterday was a record 37.7 for April since 1910,Today was 27.7 nothing died or went extinct you zombies
12-04-2020 13:03
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
duncan61 wrote:....I will not get involved in debates on this site about covid and hope that soon regular posters can get back to climate topics.

I personally consider the topic of covid-19 to be more relevant on this board to the main topic of climate change than a topic actually addressing climate change. The reason is that climate change is mainly concerned with events which would transpire in the distant future, 20, 50 a 100 years from now. It gets very abstract very quickly. With covid-19 all of the same major issues are at play. Do you believe experts, why, should the government be involved with dictating the lives and lifestyles of the citizens of Earth for the greater good, and so on. Figuring out how to handle covid-19 is actually the most relevant topic yet to figuring out how to handle climate change.

When do the costs outweigh the benefits.
Is there a vast conspiracy and how can you prove that.
Dealing with an issue the regular folks struggle to fully comprehend as the science involved is complex.
The ineffective results you'd get if you "agree to disagree" on a global issue.

It's also a great way to see how someone's argument on climate is constructed as the same argument is made for Covid-19.

I discovered that Trump was an excellent topic in this regard as well. All of the climate deniers on the site have insisted I'm a "liar" for pointing out that Trump called for a ban on Muslims in his first campaign ad back in 2016.

GasGuzzler: "You called it a ban on Muslims. That would actually be offensive."
Into the Night wrote:
You aren't quoting him accurately, so yes, you are a liar.
IBdaMann wrote:...you are a LIAR for intentionally distorting Trump's message...

They literally say I'm a liar for typing the words shown on the screen above, putting quotes around them, and identifying them as Trumps.

So Duncan you're missing out on the real pay dirt here with Covid-19.
Edited on 12-04-2020 13:17
12-04-2020 17:14
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
Nobody denied that Trump called for a TEMPORARY ban on Muslims entering the country. You repeatedly left off the word, "TEMPORARY", and insisted it was a permanent ban. Just like the democrats like to leave off the word, "ILLEGAL", when referring to illegal immigrants. You became a liar. when you try to use your own opinions and interpretations, as what someone else wrote, not what they actually wrote. Then you troll every thread on the site with it, destroying every other topic, you don't agree with.

Now, climate change, is total BS, since it's not so much science, but faith based. Do to lack of actual data, they have to work on a lot of assumptions, and interpretations, that could just as easily be completely wrong. They give things like ice cores samples a lot more credit and accuracy, than is really there. The "warming" is actually well within the margin of error, which means it's actually nothing to worry about.

Interglacial periods eventually end. Mean, some parts of the globe, will start getting really cold, climate change... They can drag this global warming out for a long time, but eventually, it's not going to be warming anymore, do to the natural cooling of an ice age coming. Likely they know this, and their projections for the catastrophic warming, is actually, where the cooling will be noticable. They can claim 'victory' over global warming. Of course a few decades later, we will be battling global cooling, and an ice age. Sort of like the Ozone scare back in the 70s. It takes a lot of faith, to accept 'warming', and it takes even more, to believe mankind has the power and might, to have any influence on such a huge planet, with very strong natural forces. Nothing we actually do, has a huge impact on nature. Even if there is warming, do to man-made CO2, a god-like molecule. Would extending the interglacial period as long as possible, be a good thing? Cold is a miserable, deadly way to live. Lots of stuff die off, plants don't grow so well in cold climates. Less food for all living things, mas starvation. Takes a lot of calories to maintain body temperature in the cold.

Either way, we have little choice, but adapt to what ever nature throws at us, or die. Covid-19, is just another on of those nature things, we have no control over. How we adapt, doesn't really reduce the body count, in the end. We could opt to just get over with it, in a couple years. Or, we can hide in our homes, and stretch out for 5-6 years. Those who can't get vaccinated, or afford any respiratory infection, will die anyway. It still comes down to how well those individuals can isolate themselves from society. Nobody lives forever...
12-04-2020 18:11
James___
★★★★★
(2987)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I discovered that The Republican party and Trump are not weighing in to the climate loonys and think it is a plot by China to reduce their power.Any thoughts anyone


Wrong issue Harvey. Duncan said "climate" not "covid".

The "China climate plot" is laughably stupid. The Republican party would quickly distance themselves from it if an association were made (it has not been).

Trump is a moron so he has of course retweeted and indicated some belief in it.

There is a long list of dumb stuff Trump has associated himself with.

Here is Trump:
The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.

Here is the Republican Party:
Climate change is far from this nation's most pressing national security issue.



I don't think climate change is much of an issue and am disliked by people like Republicans for saying that. I'd like to think that the coronavirus shows us that there are other issues that we could be wary of but have been ignoring.

The GOP says this in your link;
Agricultural production and exports are central to the Republican agenda for jobs, growth, expanded trade, and prosperity.


Under Mitch McConnell's leadership (and his aide de camp Trump), our trade deficit with China has increased by 17%. I'll translate, exporting agricultural production wins them states in the Bible belt. And expanding trade means importing more from China.
All though what more low cost imports from China means is more warehouse jobs at the expense of manufacturing jobs which would benefit more Americans instead of only 2 groups of people, warehouse workers and Republicans.
12-04-2020 18:43
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
The China trade deal, as well as the USMCA, were only signed, they still haven't gone into effect. Neither trade agreement was intended to go immediate effect, different parts, at different times, over a year or so. Only been a couple months, nothing has really changed. The China agreement, was more preliminary, first-phase, agreement. It wouldn't have drastically reduced the deficit either. The intent was to lay the ground work, and reduce tariffs. It's a unique global economy at the moment, because of Covid-19, numbers are kind of meaningless.
12-04-2020 19:13
James___
★★★★★
(2987)
Reduced tariffs simply means more imports from China, a communist country. Shouldn't we be desiring to do more trade with democratic countries that share our values?

Signed
A U.S. Veteran of the Armed Forces
Attached image:

12-04-2020 20:07
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7310)
tmiddles wrote:The reason is that climate change is mainly concerned with events which would transpire in the distant future, 20, 50 a 100 years from now.

Nope. Climate Change is completely undefined. You know this. In fact, you insist on leaving it completely undefined so that you can continue worshiping in peace without having your bubble burst by every eighth grader who mentions one of the numerous glaring contradictions and violations of physics.

As such, Climate Change isn't concerned with events that would transpire in the distant future because Climate Change isn't concerned with anything beyond bringing new members into the church, which I might add, is the only religion to impose heavy, graduated tithing on non-members.

tmiddles wrote: Do you believe experts, why, should the government be involved with dictating the lives and lifestyles of the citizens of Earth for the greater good, and so on.

Well, if that doesn't part the clouds to reveal the true sky of your Marxist position.

tmiddles wrote: Figuring out how to handle covid-19 is actually the most relevant topic yet to figuring out how to handle climate change.

Anything to get the government to seize full control and to quash the last freedoms of humanity.

tmiddles wrote:Is there a vast conspiracy and how can you prove that.

There are many things that I can see that I cannot "prove."

tmiddles wrote: Dealing with an issue the regular folks struggle to fully comprehend as the science involved is complex.

Still waiting for you to get to that.

tmiddles wrote: The ineffective results you'd get if you "agree to disagree" on a global issue.

Absolutely. Coronahoax is only a problem that we create for ourselves. It could be over in the next fifteen minutes if we would all just stop pretending there is some sort of problem.

tmiddles wrote: All of the climate deniers on the site have insisted I'm a "liar" for pointing out that Trump called for a ban on Muslims in his first campaign ad back in 2016.

You are a liar for intentionally misrepresenting Trump's position. Personally, I believe you work for Reuters.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-04-2020 22:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13024)
tmiddles wrote:
The "China climate plot" is laughably stupid. The Republican party would quickly distance themselves from it if an association were made (it has not been).

It's actually quite plausible. The Church of Global Warming does stem from the Church of Karl Marx, practiced by the CCP in China.
tmiddles wrote:
Trump is a moron so he has of course retweeted and indicated some belief in it.
There is a long list of dumb stuff Trump has associated himself with.

TDS
tmiddles wrote:
Here is the Republican Party:
Climate change is far from this nation's most pressing national security issue.

Since 'climate change' remains undefined, it certainly is not any kind of security issue at all.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
12-04-2020 22:50
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13024)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:....I will not get involved in debates on this site about covid and hope that soon regular posters can get back to climate topics.

I personally consider the topic of covid-19 to be more relevant on this board to the main topic of climate change than a topic actually addressing climate change.

Mantra 15. You are again attempting to hijack a thread.
tmiddles wrote:
The reason is that climate change is mainly concerned with events which would transpire in the distant future, 20, 50 a 100 years from now.

Mantra 22b. Define 'climate change'.
tmiddles wrote:
It gets very abstract very quickly.

It was never anything but. Define 'climate change'.
tmiddles wrote:
Do you believe experts,

Mantra 22d. Define 'expert'. It is not a title of nobility.
tmiddles wrote:
why, should the government be involved with dictating the lives and lifestyles of the citizens of Earth for the greater good, and so on.

Dictatorships and oligarchies don't work.
tmiddles wrote:
Figuring out how to handle covid-19 is actually the most relevant topic yet to figuring out how to handle climate change.

How to handle covid-19: don't panic.
How to handle 'climate change': don't panic.

tmiddles wrote:
When do the costs outweigh the benefits.
Is there a vast conspiracy and how can you prove that.
[quote]tmiddles wrote:
Dealing with an issue the regular folks struggle to fully comprehend as the science involved is complex.
[quote]tmiddles wrote:
The ineffective results you'd get if you "agree to disagree" on a global issue.
[quote]tmiddles wrote:
It's also a great way to see how someone's argument on climate is constructed as the same argument is made for Covid-19.
[quote]tmiddles wrote:
I discovered that Trump was an excellent topic in this regard as well.
[quote]tmiddles wrote:
All of the climate deniers on the site have insisted I'm a "liar" for pointing out that Trump called for a ban on Muslims in his first campaign ad back in 2016. ...deleted duplicate material...
[quote]tmiddles wrote:

GasGuzzler: "You called it a ban on Muslims. That would actually be offensive."[quote]Into the Night wrote:
You aren't quoting him accurately, so yes, you are a liar.
IBdaMann wrote:...you are a LIAR for intentionally distorting Trump's message...

They literally say I'm a liar for typing the words shown on the screen above, putting quotes around them, and identifying them as Trumps.
tmiddles wrote:
So Duncan you're missing out on the real pay dirt here with Covid-19.



The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
13-04-2020 08:25
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Nobody denied that Trump called for a TEMPORARY ban on Muslims entering the country. You repeatedly left off the word, "TEMPORARY", ...
All I did was quote Trumps commercial.
"The whole transcript:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UoQff8MMVM
"I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message.

The politicians can pretend it's something else but Donald Trump calls it radical islamic terrorism.

That's why he's calling for a temporary shut down of Muslim's entering the United States until we can figure out what's going on.

He'll quickly cut the heads off ISIS and take their oil.

And he'll stop illegal imigration by building a wall on our southern border that Mexico will pay for.

We will make america great again."
If you think someone temporarily being a bigot matters you are welcome to think so. I provided the full and complete video immediately.

Also your claim:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Nobody denied that Trump called for a TEMPORARY ban on Muslims entering the country. ..
not true:
link
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:Quote: "He's calling for a temporary shut down of Muslim's entering the United States until we can figure out what's going on."

This is totally dishonest. You completely chopped off the part giving context and the first part of the point.

You obviously got this from the people who are successfully manipulating you.

Into the Night wrote:
No one has called for a ban on Muslims entering the country.


HarveyH55 wrote:Now, climate change, is total BS, ...
reality by fiat again Harvey? Try making a real argument.

IBdaMann wrote:
Climate Change is completely undefined..
you and ITN like pretending that.

You are still ducking your debunking here:
Misuse of the 1st LTD, Plancks Law/SB Law, and glaring hypocrisy of "Valid Data" exposed:
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/venus-is-hotter-than-mercury--d6-e2710-s720.php#post_53762
33 days with no reply
Here:
Debating "photons of the lower temperature object are not absorbed by the higher temperature object." and that the a light bulb absorbs the radiance from an oven, IBD claims "go ahead ... I'm ready to debate it.":
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/the-radiative-greenhouse-effect-does-not-exist-d10-e3047-s40.php#post_53357
40 days with no reply
And Here:
2nd Law and disproving IBD's confusion about Earth being a isolated system:
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/2nd-law-d6-e3030-s80.php#post_53063
46 days with no reply

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
Edited on 13-04-2020 08:34
13-04-2020 10:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13024)
tmiddles wrote:
...deleted Mantra 16c...4c...4a...16c...4c...4a...4c...lie...35a...22b...10d...22b...TMSb4...


No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
18-04-2020 08:21
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(466)
I started this thread as I discovered that Trump has no intention of caving in to warmazombies and it is business as usual which is great news for me.The big deal with the pro AGW/GW crowd is none of the predicted disasters are happening so until something actually happens the main world leaders do not care
18-04-2020 09:05
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7310)
duncan61 wrote: I started this thread as I discovered that Trump has no intention of caving in to warmazombies and it is business as usual which is great news for me.The big deal with the pro AGW/GW crowd is none of the predicted disasters are happening so until something actually happens the main world leaders do not care

This whole coronahoax thing is a MSM/DNC-concocted hoax and We the Sheeple gullibly played along. Trump, being answerable to us, did his job as we demanded and took it seriously, but will soon be returning everything to normal after allowing us to see just how stupid we were over nothing.

Hoax #1: Russian colllllluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuusion!
Hoax #2: Impreach the President for doing his job
Hoax #3: The Zombie Coronapocalypse is Trump's Fault!

... what will be Hoax #4?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-04-2020 10:07
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
IBdaMann wrote:....Hoax #3: The Zombie Coronapocalypse is Trump's Fault!.
So you believe that Covid-19 is a hoax invented to discredit/damage Trump?
Edited on 18-04-2020 10:09
18-04-2020 10:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7310)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:....Hoax #3: The Zombie Coronapocalypse is Trump's Fault!.
So you believe that Covid-19 is a hoax invented to discredit/damage Trump?

This is another intentionally dishonest "gotcha" question.

The hype and the panic over this year's flu season, as though it is the coming zombie coronapocalypse, is the hoax. COVID-19 is an actual virus, a bit weaker than last year's flu and a LOT weaker than the flu virus that went around in 2017-2018. There was no need to alter our daily routines for this year's flu season, but the hoax changed all that.

Yes, the hoax is a gambit fully intended to damage Trump at the polls in November.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-04-2020 11:26
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
IBdaMann wrote:
Yes, the hoax is a gambit fully intended to damage Trump at the polls in November.
very clearly said. I did not think you meant Covid-19 did not exist but rather that your position was precisely as you've described it.

As I think we can all agree the Covid-19 "reaction"/framing/hysteria is what we are discussing.

I think we can also agree that it (the response to Covid-19) is financially devestating to countries not voting in our election in November: UK, France, Spain, Italy ....

So I'm curious if you have a theory as to why they are willing participants in this hoax?

Also as Trumps poll numbers haven't fallen wouldn't a country like Italy, which really cannot afford a financial hit like this, give up and get back to work when they saw it was not producing results?

I can tell you, as someone who hates Trump more than I've ever hated anything, that I would not inflinct 1% of the toll this is taking on the world just to see him lose.
18-04-2020 17:47
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
Do you think the global over-reaction might be do to the virus research lab being located very close to ground zero? It wasn't a huge secret that China had the lab there, just the work being done. It's unknowable if the virus occurred naturally, or whether it got out of the lab accidentally, deliberately. China isn't likely to admit they lied, a sign of weakness. Kind of why I refuse to get involved in debate games here.

Initially, the medical, military, and intelligence (or lack of), in all countries, would push for an abundance of caution, as if it was a bio-weapon, until it can be tested, or found out to be anything else. The medical communities, also had an operatunity, to try a new approach toward fighting a pandemic. Politicians, saw an operatunity to abuse their power, and seize control. The media, of course, had literally, a captive-audience, and guaranteed ratings. Basically, everyone, other than the citizens, profits from amping up the fear and panic, over what is turning out to be nothing more than a common, unremarkable cold virus, making it's first run through the human population of the world. Since we attempt to mess with the natural spread of the virus, we should expect a worst than normal second round, but probably not as bad as the first. Won't know until next Fall, since symptoms were mild for most, and it hit during the regular cold and flu season. Have to wait and see how many actually had this particular virus, and never knew the difference. A very small percentage of the world population has been tested. Not many of those tested, came back positive.

It's been pretty well established, that Covid-19 is not a bio-weapon. But there are a lot of people of power, who don't want to let a good panic go to waste, since they can profit from it, and control others. The new infection numbers are easily manipulated, by the number of tests administered and processed. The numbers increased, 'at an alarming rate', because more test kits were made available, and more labs to process. I think the test kits will still get used, as will the newer rapid-tests, but fewer will be lab-processed. The labs usually have plenty of other work, and thats been back-logging.

There are hundreds, of known viruses, that infect the respiratory system in humans, There is nothing preventing us from getting infected by multiple viruses at the same time. The immune system produces the same responses for many reasons, other than infection. It's not generally necessary for a doctor to know which virus or bacteria, specifically is actually responsible for an infection. Initially, he just needs to know if the symptoms are in response to a pathogen, or a physical problem. Knowing which type of pathogen, will help chose the best treatment, bacteria/virus, cold/flu. Killing the infection, lets the patient's immune system stop fighting so hard. It's the immune system doing all the damage, not the infection. Consider chemotherapy, where they pump a patient full of toxic chemicals. The theory is that cancer cells are weaker than normal cells, and will die quicker. The trick, is to poison you just enough to kill the cancer, and do minimal damage to essential organs. If you've ever gone through it, personally, or with a friend, or family member, it's rough stuff. Our immune system does something similar with infections, create a hostile environment for the infection, which is also rough on healthy cells and organs. People areadly in bad shape, for other medical reasons, have a tougher time dealing with more medical problems. Your body can only deal with some many issues at one time, needs help.

Germaphobes, or those with known high-risk medical conditions, are thrilled with the restrictions, focus on hygiene, sanitation and everything else, they have been doing for years. False sense of security, because they will always need to take the same personal-responsibility measures, to ensure their own safety, it's a filthy world, outside their isolated living space. They do get a measure of comfort, knowing the normal world, as to share their misery, for a short time...
18-04-2020 18:33
keepit
★★★★☆
(1628)
Harvey,
Who established the covid is not a bio-weapon and how was that established.
Produce evidence and not OOYA opinion.
18-04-2020 18:44
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
Who established the covid is not a bio-weapon and how was that established.
Produce evidence and not OOYA opinion.


I don't think it's 'official' just yet, as China won't admit it, or grant access to the virus lab, or research. But, nothing has been found, that indicates Covid-19, is anything, but a normal, naturally occurring virus. It's been discussed in the president's briefings, on the radio, in the news. Our president wouldn't lie to us.
19-04-2020 00:58
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Our president wouldn't lie to us.


THE ATLANTIC: Trump's Lies about COVID-19

Trump lies in general more than anyone to ever take a national stage (entertainers included). It seems to be part of his DNA to lie.

Over 16000 in just 3 years. Wowza
The Hill Article

He's like you Harvey he just likes to invent facts.

"The president has repeatedly advocated against wind energy in a way that has perplexed scientists and fact checkers. In April, he said the noise from windmills cause cancer...."

He is a fountain of BS
19-04-2020 03:48
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(466)
I think Trump has put USA first and done good stuff.The articles you present are just normal dirt which I am sure he can deal with.Who would you prefer to be your number one?what choices do you have?His stance on AGW/GW Impresses me as it is not the popular roll over line.He could state that he is doing everything about it and do nothing he chooses to say F off its not true and put himself in the firing line.I am doing a personal survey as I am a contractor and meet a lot of different people almost daily and At the right time I query on their personal stance.More than 50% have no interest and a few are conserned about pollution/population but I have yet to meet a hard line Warmazombie that full on believes we are going to burn.I can only hope as I have a lot of questions.Is it possible that not every thread turns in to this Covid crap
19-04-2020 04:14
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
Climate Change believers and activists have a lot of cash on hand. Rather than spending it, they could be using that money to get a lot of people converted to 'green' renewable. It's amusing that those with the loudest voice, do the least, on their own land, in with their own companies. They don't want to spend their own money, on something so close to their heart. Their wealth means more than the health of the planet. Should be a huge indicator, as to who's lying, and what climate change is really all about. It's not about 'greening' the planet, it's about seizing power and control, stealing other people's wealth. Solar panels and windmills take up a lot of land, which can no longer be used for other things, and don't produce constant, consistent power. Our power grid was designed or built to handle unstable supplies. Unstable power grid, means more frequent blackouts.
19-04-2020 04:22
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
duncan61 wrote:
I think Trump has put USA first and done good stuff.
So you don't care that he lies?

duncan61 wrote:Who would you prefer to be your number one?what choices do you have?
Biden, Pence, McConnel, Pelosi, I could pretty much list everyone I can think of.

duncan61 wrote:His stance on AGW/GW Impresses me as it is not the popular roll over line.
It is popular with you and the republican party. So yes it's exactly what his base wants to hear.

duncan61 wrote:I have yet to meet a hard line Warmazombie
So you have personally confirmed that Trump is taking a popular position.

duncan61 wrote:Is it possible that not every thread turns in to this Covid crap
Well I'll ask you again don't you think Covid-19 is a good case for examining the method and the means by which we approach a global issue that may or may not be a severe problem?

Also there are a lot of thread that are ignored by the deniers on this board duncan (including by you):

Misuse of the 1st LTD, Plancks Law/SB Law, and glaring hypocrisy of "Valid Data" exposed:
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/venus-is-hotter-than-mercury--d6-e2710-s720.php#post_53762
34 days with no reply
Here:
Debating "photons of the lower temperature object are not absorbed by the higher temperature object." and that the a light bulb absorbs the radiance from an oven, IBD claims "go ahead ... I'm ready to debate it.":
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/the-radiative-greenhouse-effect-does-not-exist-d10-e3047-s40.php#post_53357
41 days with no reply
And Here:
2nd Law and disproving IBD's confusion about Earth being a isolated system:
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/2nd-law-d6-e3030-s80.php#post_53063
47 days with no reply

HarveyH55 wrote:...Solar panels and windmills take up a lot of land, which can no longer be used ...
So you're just going to pretend that TRUMP doesn't claim windmills cause cancer?

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
19-04-2020 04:34
James___
★★★★★
(2987)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I think Trump has put USA first and done good stuff.
So you don't care that he lies?



Trump gave the first pay raise to the US Armed Forces in 10 years. The previous increases in income were not raises but just more money in their paychecks.

"You protect us. We are always going to protect you. And you just saw that, because you just got one of the biggest pay raises you've ever received," he said. "You haven't gotten one in more than 10 years — more than 10 years. And we got you a big one. I got you a big one."

https://time.com/5489492/trump-military-raise/


It's only a raise when you are told, "this is a raise". The law actually requires that to be made known. If not then an increase in wages is not a raise. A raise has to be identified as such. So legally speaking, President Trump gave a raise while everyone before him just put more money in the pockets of Veterans.
19-04-2020 04:45
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(466)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I think Trump has put USA first and done good stuff.
So you don't care that he lies?

Not at all its part of the job.I am sure he has a spin doctor team just like everyone else.You can not get it right for everyone so I get the impression that he deals with issues in style.I am of British heritage and no one thought Margaret Thatcher would mobilise the forces over the Falkland islands but she did.In 20 years when the sea is still there the fish are still swimming and I am still culling Kangaroos and camels we will all look back and know he got it right.
19-04-2020 05:12
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2199)
It really depends on what you are looking at, as lies. Politicians are professional liars, just like lawyers. Some times the raw facts and truth, do more damage. I was pretty sure, as many others, that it would take 2-3 months to get through the worst of this pandemic. Trump, has been setting potential 'freedom' dates, way too soon, 2-3 weeks more... Pretty much the whole time, it'll be over in a couple weeks. Looking at other countries, like China, it's 2-3 months. We are about half through. Trump keeps the goal post in close, easy reach, to give hope, and reassurance. Couple of weeks are tough to look at, but doable. 2-3 months, is disaster. Fortunately, as an essential worker, I haven't had it that tough. The main things, are mostly a nuicent, not worrisome. Those with no job, no income, and bills piling up, are sure to be having it tough, not knowing just how long this will last, and how they are going to get caught up.

It's really amazing, that there seems to be a huge reduction in crime. Figured there would be a whole lot of stealing going on. Maybe it's all the guns and ammo sold, and people sitting at home, or maybe in their shuttered business, looking for a reason to pull the trigger. But what is stopping people from just walking into a store, grabbing whatever they wanted, and leave without paying. Social distance, means no one will physically try to stop them. It's the 'most deadly virus' known to mankind, who's going to risk dying, over a few groceries, or a 12-pack of beer?

People are getting restless, and less afraid. Been reading about protests in several cities. had one in Orlando yesterday, about 100 people. Mayor Demings has been too hard-nosed about it, for a democrat. Yep, that's our Rep. Val Demings husband.

I do think we are going to see some restriction relaxed, over the next few weeks, but not many of the main ones, for about a month. Lot of businesses will remained closed, no events, that draw crowds. Still travel restrictions. Mostly, little things, that will continue to give people hope that it's really going to end very soon, not in a year or so.
19-04-2020 05:25
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
duncan61 wrote:
Not at all its part of the job.
I don't think it's acceptable for a leader to lie. Spinning something does not always mean actually lying, in fact it rarely does.

Did Thatcher spew completely fabricated and untrue statements like saying windmills cause cancer?

Here is what comes up for Margaret Thatcher lying:
Margaret Thatcher 'lied to the House of Commons' over the Westland affair
A right British scandal in which Thatcher claimed she was entirely unaware a letter had been leaked. But Chancellor, George Osborne countered "I'm not saying Mrs Thatcher knew exactly how this was done, but the point is ... her hands were not entirely clean. "

That is a "lie" from normal, not maniac, politicians. A leaked letter, an insincere claim they were not involved, yadda yadda.

Now there is Trump who claims demonstrably false things in broad daylight. Like saying windmills cause cancer, weirdly false claims about crowd size:

https://www.vogue.com/article/donald-trump-lies-200-days
But lies about really important issues too:
TRUMP Lies:
- "Nobody knows" if Russia interfered in the 2016 election.
- Millions of illegal votes were cast in the 2016 election.
- never asked then-FBI Director James Comey to drop the investigation into then-national security adviser Michael Flynn.
- will release his tax returns as soon as the supposed "routine audit" into his finances is complete.
- February 7: "And yet the murder rate in our country is the highest it's been in 47 years, right? Did you know that? Forty-seven years." It is not.
- March 4: "Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my 'wires tapped' in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!" No, it isn't—there is no evidence to support this, and it has been roundly denied by the government.
And on and on and on

16,000.

But what about climate?

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/the-trump-administration-is-just-flat-out-lying-about-climate-change
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/trump-climate-change-lies/
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/video-audio/fox-news-anchor-tired-of-gop-lies-on-climate

There is plenty to discuss Duncan.
19-04-2020 06:28
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7310)
tmiddles wrote:I think we can also agree that it (the response to Covid-19) is financially devestating to countries not voting in our election in November: UK, France, Spain, Italy ....

We can agree that it is financially devastating to the citizens and residents of those countries, about whom the political leaders care nothing. They only care about retaining power and holding absolute control over their people ... and that involves selling a bill of goods that their socialized health care is somehow the greatest thing in all the world. They cannot afford to have the public at large realize that socialism is the crap of all crap, and that they are opting for Venezuela.

The political leaders of the countries you mention are not hesitant in the least to outright lie to their citizens and to unleash upon them hoax after hoax if that is what is necessary to remain in power.

tmiddles wrote: I can tell you, as someone who hates Trump more than I've ever hated anything, that I would not inflinct 1% of the toll this is taking on the world just to see him lose.

Bullshit. You can go to Vegas and confidently bet that I do not believe you. Not even for a second. You would watch with glee as the country burns if it would cause Trump to lose.

When Trump is overwhelmingly reelected and it is clear that it was destined from the day he defeated Hillary, you will see that America recognizes your brand of Marxist propaganda and political dishonesty as having no place among us. You are wasting your time being on the wrong team.



.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-04-2020 06:39
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7310)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I think Trump has put USA first and done good stuff.
So you don't care that he lies?

Duncan cares more about how you lie about Trump.

@Duncan, let me know if I have mispoken.

tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:His stance on AGW/GW Impresses me as it is not the popular roll over line.
It is popular with you and the republican party. So yes it's exactly what his base wants to hear.

... and only an insignificant flake of the US population are sufficiently mindless worshipers of that religion that they consider it a priority ... ergo, Trump represents the concerns of most of America, especially in putting America first.

tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:I have yet to meet a hard line Warmazombie
So you have personally confirmed that Trump is taking a popular position.

That's what politicians do. It's what gets them elected and reelected ... like Trump.

tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:Is it possible that not every thread turns in to this Covid crap
Well I'll ask you again don't you think Covid-19 is a good case for examining the method and the means by which we approach a global issue that may or may not be a severe problem?

... by creating a hoax for leftists to grab more political power?

No, that is not a good method.

tmiddles wrote: Also there are a lot of thread that are ignored by the deniers on this board duncan (including by you):

Last I checked, you are still the board's primary science denier. Many of us are still waiting for your repeatable example of how thermal energy can flow from cooler to warmer.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-04-2020 07:59
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(466)
What does Donald Trump do with his presidential salary?The bloke has a few pennies its unlikely he is trying to dodge his tax return.I was directed to a site called pot holer 54.By the warming crowd on SkS and what I perceived from the show was that one day climate scientist put forward a paper that states clouds reflect the sun others disagree and that clouds send back heat to the planet.There is no consensus it changes almost daily.
I scored this cool quote from Infowars.

Science is rarely settled as today's new discoveries disprove yesterday's consensus.

I am coming to the conclusion that to be a full on Warmazombie you have to believe the science without question and selectively pick the science that suits your faith.I need to see results and at this point in 2020 nothing has happened.The ice is still there the sea is still there the land may of sunk a bit who cares.It may be a bit warmer so what.My backyard is green as with birds chirping lizards scurrying about and the weather has cooled and we are getting a bit of rain just like every Autumn. The Salmon have migrated up the coast in good numbers like they do every year and are being caught of the metro coast .The diving of Rottnest is still spectacular for coral and sealife year round.I do not know anyone with this flu crap and our public transport is going back to regular scheduling tomorrow.I am very selfish and if any of these predictions of disaster start to happen I will be the first to cry my eyes out and blame someone else
19-04-2020 08:25
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
IBdaMann wrote:
Last I checked, you are still the board's primary science denier. .
So you're saying windmills do cause cancer?

duncan61 wrote:Trump ...unlikely he is trying to dodge his tax return
Duncan Trump lied about sharing his tax return in the presidential race. The point is not to see if a politician didn't pay their taxes it is to see if they have conflict of interest. Like having borrowed money from foreign powers (or domestic) and so on.

"We checked an archive of presidential tax returns maintained by the Tax Analysts, a publisher specializing in tax policy. It shows that going back to 1976, all but one major-party nominee released at least one return.

Only Republican Gerald Ford, who lost to Democrat Jimmy Carter in 1976, did not release returns (he released summary tax data)" link It's a non-legally binding tradition.

Many suspect that Trump has borrowed a great deal of money from Russian oligarchs. I suspect he just doesn't want anyone to know how meager his business has been at times. In any case it's one more move on his part to erode this democracy.

duncan61 wrote:
... to be a full on Warmazombie you have to believe the science without question and selectively pick the science that suits your faith.
Do you feel so helpless against this you can't form an argument to expose it?

What magic pixie dust do you imagine warmazombies have that they rob you and IBD of your ability to argue the truth?


Misuse of the 1st LTD, Plancks Law/SB Law, and glaring hypocrisy of "Valid Data" exposed:
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/venus-is-hotter-than-mercury--d6-e2710-s720.php#post_53762
34 days with no reply
Here:
Debating "photons of the lower temperature object are not absorbed by the higher temperature object." and that the a light bulb absorbs the radiance from an oven, IBD claims "go ahead ... I'm ready to debate it.":
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/the-radiative-greenhouse-effect-does-not-exist-d10-e3047-s40.php#post_53357
41 days with no reply
And Here:
2nd Law and disproving IBD's confusion about Earth being a isolated system:
https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/2nd-law-d6-e3030-s80.php#post_53063
47 days with no reply

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
Edited on 19-04-2020 08:39
19-04-2020 08:48
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(466)
. to be a full on Warmazombie you have to believe the science without question and selectively pick the science that suits your faith.

This IS my argument based on what I am learning.I compare it to the Catholic church you must believe without question the priest father touchy feely regardless and are not allowed to question anything.

The big call by the AGW/GW gang is the science is settled when it very obviously is not

Are you suggesting your leader borrowed loot from another country cos he had no money.Why??
19-04-2020 08:52
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(466)
I am no economic expert and it is of topic but even here people go on about national debt.I ask who do I write the check to but no one seems to know who we alledgedly owe money too.How does that work
19-04-2020 08:59
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
duncan61 wrote:
Are you suggesting your leader borrowed loot from another country cos he had no money.Why??
You do know that TRUMP has gone bankrupt 6 times right? But we should assume everyone is corruptible financially. There was some really shady stuff with the Clintons and money from China.

duncan61 wrote:
. to be a full on Warmazombie you have to believe the science without question and selectively pick the science that suits your faith.
This IS my argument
OK so the premise is that the Warmazombie is making a error in doing so and getting it wrong wouldn't you agree? So the argument can be developed in that way. Warmazombies blindly believed in __________ and then __________ showed how very wrong they were.

duncan61 wrote:I compare it to the Catholic church you must believe without question the priest father touchy feely regardless
And in that example you have a clearly identified crime which was committed many times by Catholic priests showing very decisively that blind faith in them is foolish. You'd need to flesh that out by showing that the Catholic church taught parishioners that priests were incapable of doing wrong and then you'd have a really good argument that the Catholic Church had really gotten it wrong.
19-04-2020 09:02
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3323)
duncan61 wrote:
I am no economic expert and it is of topic but even here people go on about national debt.I ask who do I write the check to but no one seems to know who we alledgedly owe money too.How does that work


I'm not either but I think a big part of it is treasuries. Bonds issued by the government. Maybe that's all of it. I'm not sure how it works if they just print money.
19-04-2020 11:12
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(466)
Thanks for the honest answers.I googled the Australian national debt and it as I suspected the government owes money to the reserve bank for projects based on the GDP.Bottom line we owe the money to ourselves not a foreign country.Interesting about Trump perhaps he is not as well off as it would seem.I lived through the Alan Bond days here in Western Australia and he was bought down and did time over money scandals.I have a 20 year old jeep cherokee and $500 to my name and I feel wealthy
19-04-2020 22:51
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7310)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote: Our president wouldn't lie to us.

THE ATLANTIC: Trump's Lies about COVID-19

Yes, the ATLANTIC would lie to us. ... and ?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
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