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Relativity theory



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02-04-2022 08:12
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(11757)
GasGuzzler wrote:Without the spin the moon would face the sun with just only one face.

How many faces does it have?
02-04-2022 08:43
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
Gas, the moon circles around the earth. So it does not have to have a spin to have day and night alternations. All of the sides will be exposed towards the sun at some point during its revolution around the earth.

Again, to visualize it. Take a clock facing upwards( grab at 3 clock for example) into your hand ( moon) and make one full revolution over your axis. You are the earth. Also at the beginning of the revolution point your hand with the clock towards the TV ( which is the sun). Notice that when you are doing a full revolution, all the sides of the clock will be exposed to the TV ( the sun). Also notice that the clock did not have to spin at all over its axis during this experiment. Remember , it is tidally locked with earth( you holding the clock at 3 clock).
02-04-2022 08:56
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(11757)
Xadoman wrote:Again, to visualize it. Take a clock facing upwards( grab at 3 clock for example) into your hand

I have a better idea. Riddle me this, Batman ...

Xadoman, if you had a clock that was, in fact, rotating counterclockwise, and was simultaneously moving in a concave-upward semicircular arc ... what would that look like:

Hint:

02-04-2022 10:23
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
IbdaMann, my spatial ability is awful. My examples are very easy even for a 5year old child. I simply understand what a spin is. The point is - if the clock or any other object indeed spins around its axis then you would see all the sides of the body. Lets say it spins 1/100 of a full turn over its axis during the one revolution( orbitting over the earth or smth). Now it is easy to see that it takes 100 revolutions to see all the sides of the body. If it makes one turn over axis during one revolution , then all the sides of the body is seen during this revolution.

The moon is tidally locked to earth which means that the moon does not spin anymore. It only revolves around the earth but does not spin anymore. This is what tidal lock means - a complete loss of the spin of the body. If there would a spin of the body then there would be tidal forces which would brake down the spin of the body which means there is no tidal lock.
Edited on 02-04-2022 10:26
02-04-2022 14:06
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1339)
Xadoman wrote:
Could anybody explain this to me. I have read that if we have identical twins and one of them is going to a space travel with a very fast spaceship( near the speed of light ) and when he returns the other twin has aged more. He could be an old man or even be dead.
I have also read that it takes 8 minutes for a light to reach from sun to earth. Lets say that one twin stays on earth and the other twin sits on the photon which starts it jorney towards earth. Lets say both are 20 years old at the starting point. If they meet on earth, is the twin on earth aged a lot more?


Although it is extremely weird it is true.

If you go faster whilst the experience of time is the same for you the rate of time happening is different than the person who is not moving so fast.

Weird. Head bending. But just how it is.

Also your mass increases (sort of you get heavier).

Can I explain why that is, no. But I don't think anybody can explain why it is but it is possible predict it. Bit like explaining how gravity works vs why gravity works.
02-04-2022 14:46
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1339)
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:So the moon doesn't have day and night? That's a new one for me. Thanks bro.

Well, duhhh! That's why they call it the DARK SIDE OF THE MOON. Think about it. The moon is tidally locked to the earth. The tides locked the moon to the earth a billion years ago. You don't see the tides just floating off into space, do you? Just like you don't see the moon floating off into space.

Tidally locked.


The dark side is dark to us. Not dark to sunshine.

The moon spins at the same rate as it orbits the earth. Thus we see the same side of it constantly.

If you take an apple and stab a long spike through it then stand with the long spike sticking out horizontally in front of you with the apple at the far end, then orbit (rotate) the spike around you the same face of the apple will always be facing you.

That's how the moon rotates and orbits.
02-04-2022 15:37
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Xadoman wrote:
Congratulation, you have been brainwashed by experts, Swan


Actually you have no info to dispute my math and never will, so go eat another raw dog or monkey brain
02-04-2022 15:46
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Xadoman wrote:
IbdaMann, my spatial ability is awful. My examples are very easy even for a 5year old child. I simply understand what a spin is. The point is - if the clock or any other object indeed spins around its axis then you would see all the sides of the body. Lets say it spins 1/100 of a full turn over its axis during the one revolution( orbitting over the earth or smth). Now it is easy to see that it takes 100 revolutions to see all the sides of the body. If it makes one turn over axis during one revolution , then all the sides of the body is seen during this revolution.

The moon is tidally locked to earth which means that the moon does not spin anymore. It only revolves around the earth but does not spin anymore. This is what tidal lock means - a complete loss of the spin of the body. If there would a spin of the body then there would be tidal forces which would brake down the spin of the body which means there is no tidal lock.


LOL you are clueless, since the tides are constantly moving and if the moon is tidally locked then the moon spins.

Not that your dog eating brain will ever comprehend reality

"The moon keeps the same face pointing towards the Earth because its rate of spin is tidally locked so that it is synchronized with its rate of revolution (the time needed to complete one orbit). In other words, the moon rotates exactly once every time it circles the Earth.

"The same forces that create tides in the Earth's oceans (from the gravitational pull of the moon and, to a lesser extent, the sun) also act on the solid body of the moon. The Earth's gravitational force on the moon distorts the moon into a slightly prolate, or football, shape; in addition the moon's intrinsic form is somewhat egg-shaped. If the tip of the football/egg does not point toward the Earth, then gravitational forces exert a torque that makes the tip point back toward the Earth (in reality, the moon oscillates a small amount around perfect alignment, a motion called the lunar libration)."

Nice try though kiddy, can we have a quantum entangled computer encrypted question next?
02-04-2022 19:01
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★★
(2431)
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:Without the spin the moon would face the sun with just only one face.

How many faces does it have?


Just one, with the exception of several variables coming together in perfect precision. They are as follows;

1) rough week
2) Friday night
3) clear sky
4) 24 pk Coors Lite
5) Sven Issen over for grilled venison

When these conditions perfectly align, the moon actually has several thousand faces.

Just sayin.


I just make shit up- sealover
02-04-2022 20:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:Hey IbdaMann, the GPS system by itself debunks relativity.

I have to hear this one.

Xadoman wrote:Here is a quote from Tom van Flandern( the guy worked with the GPS project):
"...the GPS engineers reset the clock rates, slowing them down before launch by 39,000
nanoseconds a day.

No, they did not.

Xadoman wrote:They then proceed to tick in orbit at the same rate as ground clocks

False.

Why are you citing this blurb instead of calling boooooolsch't? Aaaahhh, I know, you don't understand Relativity sufficiently to know when someone is booooolsch'ting you.

Regarding the first point above, the GPS engineers are the engineers. They are not the DoD customer. I don't know why you believe that the DoD would ever write into the contract that engineers can fuqq with the clocks.

Regarding the second point, nobody, I believe, in the DoD thinks that objects in different inertial frames of reference can somehow be synchronized. They understand Relativity and, unlike you, know what an inertial frame of reference is. Instead, the DoD does the best it can by using ground stations to send out a time pulse to minimize error.

Xadoman wrote: Ground observers can indeed pin-point their position to a high
degree of precision
.

Did you catch the goalpost shift there? Did you notice that the speaker did not say "with perfect precision"? Did you catch the admission that there [would be] error?

Xadoman wrote:In (Einstein) theory, however, it was expected that because the orbiting clocks all move rapidly and with varying speeds relative to any ground observer (who may be anywhere on the Earth's surface), and since in Einstein's theory the relevant speed is always speed relative to the observer, it was expected that continuously varying relativistic corrections would have to be made to clock rates.

... and they do. They are fed timestamps from ground stations. Constantly.

Xadoman wrote:This in turn would have introduced an unworkable
complexity into the GPS.

Nope. They work just fine as you noticed.

.

Quite right. The only on board clock on the satellite is the local oscillator. It's not even used to update any time stamp. It's used for the radio.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
02-04-2022 20:19
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Xadoman wrote:
Moon does not spin

Yes it does.
Xadoman wrote:
- it is tidally locked to earth my friends

No. There are two high tides and two low tides each day. A tidally locked Moon would produce only one tide each day.
Xadoman wrote:
Already billions of years ago supposedly.

You have no idea what happened billions of years ago.
Xadoman wrote:
If it would spin then we would surely see the other side of it

No. Quite the opposite. GasGuzzler's example actually shows everything quite well.
Xadoman wrote:
This is why we have here on earth day and night alternations- because the earth spins.

We don't. Half of Earth is lit and half of the Earth is unlit. That doesn't vary. You see day and night for a particular spot on Earth. During summer at a pole, the Sun doesn't set. 'Day' lasts for months.
During the winter of a pole, the Sun never rises. Night lasts for months.
Xadoman wrote:
If it were tidally locked to sun ( no spin) we would have no day and night alternations.

Being tidally locked does not concern spin. If the Earth were not spinning at all, we would still have day and night, each lasting for half a year no matter where you were on Earth.

Getting the Earth to stop spinning would probably be messy. A point on the equator is moving at 1000 miles an hour relative to poles. To stop the Earth would probably kill a lot of people. It would be like a 1000 mph wreck.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
02-04-2022 20:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Xadoman wrote:
Here is a visual:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL3rOdAR-Xk&ab_channel=olegs

So the moon doesn't have day and night? That's a new one for me. Thanks bro.


I am talking about the earth. We have day and night alternations because of the spin of the earth. Simple as that. Without the spin in tidal lock the earth would face the sun with just only one face just like the moon faces earth currently.

No. Day and night would still exist, but each would be six months long.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
02-04-2022 21:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Xadoman wrote:
IbdaMann, my spatial ability is awful.

Obviously.
Xadoman wrote:
My examples are very easy even for a 5year old child. I simply understand what a spin is.

No, you don't.
Xadoman wrote:
The point is - if the clock or any other object indeed spins around its axis then you would see all the sides of the body.

Not necessarily (as viewed from the center of an orbit of that spinning body).
Xadoman wrote:
Lets say it spins 1/100 of a full turn over its axis during the one revolution( orbitting over the earth or smth). Now it is easy to see that it takes 100 revolutions to see all the sides of the body. If it makes one turn over axis during one revolution , then all the sides of the body is seen during this revolution.

Special pleading fallacy.
Xadoman wrote:
The Moon is tidally locked to earth which means that the moon does not spin anymore.

The Moon is spinning at the same rate as it's orbital period. The Moon is not tidally locked.
Xadoman wrote:
It only revolves around the earth but does not spin anymore.

The Moon is spinning at the same rate as it's orbital period. The Moon is not tidally locked.
Xadoman wrote:
This is what tidal lock means - a complete loss of the spin of the body.

No. That is not what it means. A tidally locked body orbiting another has an orbital period equal to the spin rate of the body near the center of the orbit (the one being orbited by the other).

This tidal lock DOES exist, but not between Earth and the Moon. It exists between Pluto and it's largest moon, Charon.

Pluto spins at a rate of 6.38723 day/night period compared to our own.
Charon spins at the same rate as Pluto.
Charon orbits Pluto at exactly the same rate. The two are tidally locked together.
As they orbit each other (the barycenter is actually outside of Pluto), the Charon never moves across the sky of Pluto (as seen from Pluto).

Pluto is tiny, only 1476.8 miles across (compared to Earth, which is 3968.8 miles across)*.

* = both planets measured across at the equator, latest known figures.

A tidal lock means the moon appears in the same position in the sky. It never moves, just like Charon at Pluto.

Our Moon moves across the sky. At the same time each day, the Moon appears to advance eastward (it lags). This means a waxing Moon will appear during the evening, and the waning Moon will appear during the morning hours. During a new moon, you can't see it because you are looking directly at the dark side of the Moon (the night side). At full Moon, you are looking directly at the day side of the Moon. During the other phases, you are looking at part of each.

It was the Moon that convinced the ancient Greeks that it was round, and that the Earth was as well, which also explained why their ships disappeared over the horizon as they went to sea (as viewed from the harbor it left), and how they appeared again when they returned.

Our own Moon will eventually reach tidal lock, as it is gaining in altitude due to tidal forces. Earth's spin is actually transferring some of it's energy to the Moon. As the Moon gains altitude, the spin of Earth is slowing (both are very tiny changes over time). Eventually, the Earth and Moon will reach tidal lock. The Moon will no longer appear to move across the sky, but stay in the same place, waxing and waning as always. The Earth's day will be longer too, lasting half a month, and night also lasting half a month. There will be no more tides. The 'tide' will stay in the same place, forever. Earth will no longer slow down it's spin, and the Moon will no longer increase it's distance from Earth.

Unfortunately, by the time it reaches tidal lock, the Sun will have obliterated the Earth, having reached the stage of becoming a bloated red star (a red giant).

No worries, though. We have a few billion years before that happens. Even your skeleton will have long decomposed to dust by that time!

Xadoman wrote:
If there would a spin of the body then there would be tidal forces which would brake down the spin of the body which means there is no tidal lock.

No. Spin does not act as a brake for orbiting bodies.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
02-04-2022 21:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Tim the plumber wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Could anybody explain this to me. I have read that if we have identical twins and one of them is going to a space travel with a very fast spaceship( near the speed of light ) and when he returns the other twin has aged more. He could be an old man or even be dead.
I have also read that it takes 8 minutes for a light to reach from sun to earth. Lets say that one twin stays on earth and the other twin sits on the photon which starts it jorney towards earth. Lets say both are 20 years old at the starting point. If they meet on earth, is the twin on earth aged a lot more?


[color=navy]Although it is extremely weird it is true.

If you go faster whilst the experience of time is the same for you the rate of time happening is different than the person who is not moving so fast.

Not quite. For each observer, time appears just exactly the same. For each observer, the OTHER appears to move slowly through time.
Tim the plumber wrote:
Weird. Head bending. But just how it is.

It is head bending, because you are viewing the world through only XYZ coordinates. When you add time as a coordinate, it all makes sense. The resulting model is known as a space-time diagram. A better way to visualize it is to replace Z with time, imagining only X and Y are significant for position. As the plane of X and Y move through time, any change in X or Y results in speed. The movement through time, however, does not change. Another observer which is not in the same reference plane as the first, will see not XZ coordinate system with squares, but slanted, producing diamonds. Time moves along both references again at the same rate.
Tim the plumber wrote:
Also your mass increases (sort of you get heavier).

Your own mass does not get heavier, no matter how fast you go. The mass of another, observed by you, does get 'heavier' with speed. So much so that any further acceleration would require infinite energy to accomplish. This is why matter can never travel faster than the speed of light. If it did, it would BE light. It would no longer matter as matter.

The famous equation, E=mc^2, is only part of the whole equation, which is actually the application of the Pythagorean theorem using time and space as coordinates. The part tossed around by people (with no understand of what it means), is talking about the basic relationship between energy and matter for static matter (matter that is in the same timeframe as you). It became the equation explaining how you can get energy out of nuclear reactions. Since they convert a tiny fraction of their mass to energy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
02-04-2022 21:48
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Tim the plumber wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:So the moon doesn't have day and night? That's a new one for me. Thanks bro.

Well, duhhh! That's why they call it the DARK SIDE OF THE MOON. Think about it. The moon is tidally locked to the earth. The tides locked the moon to the earth a billion years ago. You don't see the tides just floating off into space, do you? Just like you don't see the moon floating off into space.

Tidally locked.


The dark side is dark to us. Not dark to sunshine.

The moon spins at the same rate as it orbits the earth. Thus we see the same side of it constantly.

If you take an apple and stab a long spike through it then stand with the long spike sticking out horizontally in front of you with the apple at the far end, then orbit (rotate) the spike around you the same face of the apple will always be facing you.

That's how the moon rotates and orbits.

What he doesn't quite get yet is that the apple is spinning, even though it's on a stick.

An observer standing off to the side and watching you do this can see the apple is spinning just as you are. This is why this is called 'sidereal' motion.

Is the Moon spinning relative to the Earth? No. It IS spinning relative to sidereal observation though.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 02-04-2022 21:52
02-04-2022 22:54
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
Geosynhronous orbit is bollocks. It is physically impossible. Deal with it. You all have been "fuld". Where is Harvey, where is James, I need some common sense here.

But ok, I try to explain one more time. Take some kind of object , I have for example an empty chewing gum bottle which is cylindrical in chape, and hold it in front of you with extended arm and between two fingers vertically. Now look for some sign on the object , it makes things easier to understand this way. My chewing gum bottle for example has ORBIT written on it( just a coincidence).

Now just look at that sign . Do not rotate yourself. Stay still and just look.

Now with the help of the other arm start to rotate the object which is between your fingers. Please do not rotate yourself, it makes things too complicated . Stay still. Only rotate the object between your fingers( thumb and middle finger). You now start to see the sign( in my case Orbit) on the object alternatively to disappear and appear again.This is called SPIN.If you can you could also try to point your last finger joints in a way that they almost form like a vertical axle of the body. You now see that this axle is FIXED and the body spins around this FIXED axle. Ths is SPIN. I hope at this point you now have an idea what spin of the body means.

Now lets move to the actual case we have with the moon. Extend your arm with the object between the fingers and look at the visible sign( in my case ORBIT). Rotate your body 360 degrees with extended arm. Notice you do not have to spin the object with other arm to keep the sign constantly looking at you. The body made no spin around its fixed axis( your fingers pointing toward the body forming a vertical axis of the body)

Lets move to the case of "geosynchronous mumbo jumbo". The moon supposedly should spin one revolution over its axis during one orbit around the earth. In this case while you rotate your body 360 degrees you simultaneously spin the object with other hand 1 revolution over its axis. You see that in this case you obviously see all the parts of the body as expected.



Now what does it all mean? It simply means that the moon does not spin anymore. It has no spin.
The earth currently has spin and that is why we have alternating day and night. Very simple.
The moon has lost all of its spin already a long time ago and is tidally locked to earth. Tidal forces have despun the moon.

If you belive that the earth still spins ( 1 revolution during 27 days or so) then the moon would show all of its faces to the earth. Simple as that. And it would not be then tidally locked to earth. Simple as that.

I hope you guys got it now and do not let yourself be brainwashed by mainstream mumbojumbo.
Edited on 02-04-2022 23:10
03-04-2022 03:30
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Xadoman wrote:
Geosynhronous orbit is bollocks. It is physically impossible. Deal with it. You all have been "fuld". Where is Harvey, where is James, I need some common sense here.

But ok, I try to explain one more time. Take some kind of object , I have for example an empty chewing gum bottle which is cylindrical in chape, and hold it in front of you with extended arm and between two fingers vertically. Now look for some sign on the object , it makes things easier to understand this way. My chewing gum bottle for example has ORBIT written on it( just a coincidence).

Now just look at that sign . Do not rotate yourself. Stay still and just look.

Now with the help of the other arm start to rotate the object which is between your fingers. Please do not rotate yourself, it makes things too complicated . Stay still. Only rotate the object between your fingers( thumb and middle finger). You now start to see the sign( in my case Orbit) on the object alternatively to disappear and appear again.This is called SPIN.If you can you could also try to point your last finger joints in a way that they almost form like a vertical axle of the body. You now see that this axle is FIXED and the body spins around this FIXED axle. Ths is SPIN. I hope at this point you now have an idea what spin of the body means.

Now lets move to the actual case we have with the moon. Extend your arm with the object between the fingers and look at the visible sign( in my case ORBIT). Rotate your body 360 degrees with extended arm. Notice you do not have to spin the object with other arm to keep the sign constantly looking at you. The body made no spin around its fixed axis( your fingers pointing toward the body forming a vertical axis of the body)

Lets move to the case of "geosynchronous mumbo jumbo". The moon supposedly should spin one revolution over its axis during one orbit around the earth. In this case while you rotate your body 360 degrees you simultaneously spin the object with other hand 1 revolution over its axis. You see that in this case you obviously see all the parts of the body as expected.



Now what does it all mean? It simply means that the moon does not spin anymore. It has no spin.
The earth currently has spin and that is why we have alternating day and night. Very simple.
The moon has lost all of its spin already a long time ago and is tidally locked to earth. Tidal forces have despun the moon.

If you belive that the earth still spins ( 1 revolution during 27 days or so) then the moon would show all of its faces to the earth. Simple as that. And it would not be then tidally locked to earth. Simple as that.

I hope you guys got it now and do not let yourself be brainwashed by mainstream mumbojumbo.


Actually according to NASA the moon most certainly does rotate

What do you wonder?
Some of your frequently asked Moon questions, answered.


Moon in Motion: Phases, Patterns, and More
Does the Moon rotate? Does the Moon spin on its axis?
Yes! The time it takes for the Moon to rotate once on its axis is equal to the time it takes for the Moon to orbit once around Earth. This keeps the same side of the Moon facing towards Earth throughout the month. If the Moon did not rotate on its axis at all, or if it rotated at any other rate, then we would see different parts of the Moon throughout the month.

https://moon.nasa.gov/inside-and-out/top-moon-questions/#:~:text=Does%20the%20Moon%20rotate%3F,to%20orbit%20once%20around%20Earth.

You may now resume eating the dog
03-04-2022 03:54
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(11757)
Xadoman wrote: Geosynhronous orbit is bollocks.

The US government has many satellites in geosynchronous orbit.

Xadoman wrote: It is physically impossible. Deal with it.

Just out of curiosity, do you have a satellite dish?

Xadoman wrote:But ok, I try to explain one more time.

How many times will it take before you see the problem with your example?

Perhaps you will explain to me what is wrong in THIS VIDEO(and include time hacks).
03-04-2022 15:30
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Xadoman wrote:
Geosynhronous orbit is bollocks. It is physically impossible. Deal with it. You all have been "fuld". Where is Harvey, where is James, I need some common sense here.

But ok, I try to explain one more time. Take some kind of object , I have for example an empty chewing gum bottle which is cylindrical in chape, and hold it in front of you with extended arm and between two fingers vertically. Now look for some sign on the object , it makes things easier to understand this way. My chewing gum bottle for example has ORBIT written on it( just a coincidence).

Now just look at that sign . Do not rotate yourself. Stay still and just look.

Now with the help of the other arm start to rotate the object which is between your fingers. Please do not rotate yourself, it makes things too complicated . Stay still. Only rotate the object between your fingers( thumb and middle finger). You now start to see the sign( in my case Orbit) on the object alternatively to disappear and appear again.This is called SPIN.If you can you could also try to point your last finger joints in a way that they almost form like a vertical axle of the body. You now see that this axle is FIXED and the body spins around this FIXED axle. Ths is SPIN. I hope at this point you now have an idea what spin of the body means.

Now lets move to the actual case we have with the moon. Extend your arm with the object between the fingers and look at the visible sign( in my case ORBIT). Rotate your body 360 degrees with extended arm. Notice you do not have to spin the object with other arm to keep the sign constantly looking at you. The body made no spin around its fixed axis( your fingers pointing toward the body forming a vertical axis of the body)

Lets move to the case of "geosynchronous mumbo jumbo". The moon supposedly should spin one revolution over its axis during one orbit around the earth. In this case while you rotate your body 360 degrees you simultaneously spin the object with other hand 1 revolution over its axis. You see that in this case you obviously see all the parts of the body as expected.



Now what does it all mean? It simply means that the moon does not spin anymore. It has no spin.
The earth currently has spin and that is why we have alternating day and night. Very simple.
The moon has lost all of its spin already a long time ago and is tidally locked to earth. Tidal forces have despun the moon.

If you belive that the earth still spins ( 1 revolution during 27 days or so) then the moon would show all of its faces to the earth. Simple as that. And it would not be then tidally locked to earth. Simple as that.

I hope you guys got it now and do not let yourself be brainwashed by mainstream mumbojumbo.


Do dogs scream much when you cook them alive?

Let's have a coffee and discuss.
03-04-2022 22:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Xadoman wrote:
Geosynhronous orbit is bollocks. It is physically impossible. Deal with it. You all have been "fuld". Where is Harvey, where is James, I need some common sense here.
[quote]Xadoman wrote:
But ok, I try to explain one more time. Take some kind of object , I have for example an empty chewing gum bottle which is cylindrical in chape, and hold it in front of you with extended arm and between two fingers vertically. Now look for some sign on the object , it makes things easier to understand this way. My chewing gum bottle for example has ORBIT written on it( just a coincidence).

Now just look at that sign . Do not rotate yourself. Stay still and just look.

Now with the help of the other arm start to rotate the object which is between your fingers. Please do not rotate yourself, it makes things too complicated . Stay still. Only rotate the object between your fingers( thumb and middle finger). You now start to see the sign( in my case Orbit) on the object alternatively to disappear and appear again.This is called SPIN.If you can you could also try to point your last finger joints in a way that they almost form like a vertical axle of the body. You now see that this axle is FIXED and the body spins around this FIXED axle. Ths is SPIN. I hope at this point you now have an idea what spin of the body means.

Actually, when you are just standing there looking at the bottle, it is spinning, end over end, just as you are. It moves with the surface of the Earth as it spins. You are also both orbiting the Earth, at the same rate as Earth's spin.
Xadoman wrote:
Now lets move to the actual case we have with the moon. Extend your arm with the object between the fingers and look at the visible sign( in my case ORBIT). Rotate your body 360 degrees with extended arm. Notice you do not have to spin the object with other arm to keep the sign constantly looking at you. The body made no spin around its fixed axis( your fingers pointing toward the body forming a vertical axis of the body)

The Moon is also orbiting the Earth, though at a different rate then you and the bottle are. The spin of the Moon is the same period as it's orbit, leaving one side facing the Earth at all times. The Moon is spinning just as you and the bottle are, just at a different rate.
Xadoman wrote:
Lets move to the case of "geosynchronous mumbo jumbo". The moon supposedly should spin one revolution over its axis during one orbit around the earth.

The Moon is not geosynchronous. You and the bottle are, though. The Moon does spin at the same rate as the period of it's orbit.
Xadoman wrote:
In this case while you rotate your body 360 degrees you simultaneously spin the object with other hand 1 revolution over its axis. You see that in this case you obviously see all the parts of the body as expected.

Nope. Just the same side facing Earth.
Xadoman wrote:
Now what does it all mean? It simply means that the moon does not spin anymore. It has no spin.

What it means is that you have no idea what is spinning and what isn't.
Xadoman wrote:
The earth currently has spin and that is why we have alternating day and night. Very simple.
The moon has lost all of its spin already a long time ago and is tidally locked to earth. Tidal forces have despun the moon.

The Moon is not tidally locked. It still moves across the sky as it waxes and wanes. We still have two tides each day, and their time they occur still shifts from day to day.
Xadoman wrote:
If you belive that the earth still spins ( 1 revolution during 27 days or so) then the moon would show all of its faces to the earth. Simple as that. And it would not be then tidally locked to earth. Simple as that.

If the Earth spun as the same period of the Moon's orbit, the Moon would not be moving across the sky, but remain fixed in the sky. There would be no more tides. The Moon would be further away as well. It would appear quite a bit smaller. Total solar eclipses would no longer be possible.

That would be tidally locked to the Earth.

During such a condition, the Earth is still spinning, and so is the Moon.

Xadoman wrote:
I hope you guys got it now and do not let yourself be brainwashed by mainstream mumbojumbo.

Since you refer to Newton's and Keppler's laws as 'mainstream mumbojumbo', you are referring to theories of science as 'mainstream mumbojumbo'. You are just denying science.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 03-04-2022 22:04
04-04-2022 01:10
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Into the Night wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Geosynhronous orbit is bollocks. It is physically impossible. Deal with it. You all have been "fuld". Where is Harvey, where is James, I need some common sense here.
[quote]Xadoman wrote:
But ok, I try to explain one more time. Take some kind of object , I have for example an empty chewing gum bottle which is cylindrical in chape, and hold it in front of you with extended arm and between two fingers vertically. Now look for some sign on the object , it makes things easier to understand this way. My chewing gum bottle for example has ORBIT written on it( just a coincidence).

Now just look at that sign . Do not rotate yourself. Stay still and just look.

Now with the help of the other arm start to rotate the object which is between your fingers. Please do not rotate yourself, it makes things too complicated . Stay still. Only rotate the object between your fingers( thumb and middle finger). You now start to see the sign( in my case Orbit) on the object alternatively to disappear and appear again.This is called SPIN.If you can you could also try to point your last finger joints in a way that they almost form like a vertical axle of the body. You now see that this axle is FIXED and the body spins around this FIXED axle. Ths is SPIN. I hope at this point you now have an idea what spin of the body means.

Actually, when you are just standing there looking at the bottle, it is spinning, end over end, just as you are. It moves with the surface of the Earth as it spins. You are also both orbiting the Earth, at the same rate as Earth's spin.
Xadoman wrote:
Now lets move to the actual case we have with the moon. Extend your arm with the object between the fingers and look at the visible sign( in my case ORBIT). Rotate your body 360 degrees with extended arm. Notice you do not have to spin the object with other arm to keep the sign constantly looking at you. The body made no spin around its fixed axis( your fingers pointing toward the body forming a vertical axis of the body)

The Moon is also orbiting the Earth, though at a different rate then you and the bottle are. The spin of the Moon is the same period as it's orbit, leaving one side facing the Earth at all times. The Moon is spinning just as you and the bottle are, just at a different rate.
Xadoman wrote:
Lets move to the case of "geosynchronous mumbo jumbo". The moon supposedly should spin one revolution over its axis during one orbit around the earth.

The Moon is not geosynchronous. You and the bottle are, though. The Moon does spin at the same rate as the period of it's orbit.
Xadoman wrote:
In this case while you rotate your body 360 degrees you simultaneously spin the object with other hand 1 revolution over its axis. You see that in this case you obviously see all the parts of the body as expected.

Nope. Just the same side facing Earth.
Xadoman wrote:
Now what does it all mean? It simply means that the moon does not spin anymore. It has no spin.

What it means is that you have no idea what is spinning and what isn't.
Xadoman wrote:
The earth currently has spin and that is why we have alternating day and night. Very simple.
The moon has lost all of its spin already a long time ago and is tidally locked to earth. Tidal forces have despun the moon.

The Moon is not tidally locked. It still moves across the sky as it waxes and wanes. We still have two tides each day, and their time they occur still shifts from day to day.
Xadoman wrote:
If you belive that the earth still spins ( 1 revolution during 27 days or so) then the moon would show all of its faces to the earth. Simple as that. And it would not be then tidally locked to earth. Simple as that.

If the Earth spun as the same period of the Moon's orbit, the Moon would not be moving across the sky, but remain fixed in the sky. There would be no more tides. The Moon would be further away as well. It would appear quite a bit smaller. Total solar eclipses would no longer be possible.

That would be tidally locked to the Earth.

During such a condition, the Earth is still spinning, and so is the Moon.

Xadoman wrote:
I hope you guys got it now and do not let yourself be brainwashed by mainstream mumbojumbo.

Since you refer to Newton's and Keppler's laws as 'mainstream mumbojumbo', you are referring to theories of science as 'mainstream mumbojumbo'. You are just denying science.


So now you claim as NASA and I do that the moon is spinning.

This means that you took the Abilify
04-04-2022 07:38
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
One hint: Venus.

It will soon appear to be a zero -rotational for sidereal view


0:1( rotations / orbits)

But it is only transitory and goes for 1:1 sidereal view when venus loses its spin and fully tidally locks.


Venus countdown looks like this


Using the convention that astronomers prefer to use (of sidereal rotations / orbit), Venus is slowing down like this (starting arbitrarily with 3 solar days left to lose):

2:1 (3 solar days) –– 1:1 (2 solar days left) –– 0:1 (1 solar day left) –– 1:1 (one long solar day on one side, perpetual darkness on the other side).

NOTE how Venus will have two 1:1 sidereal spin rates as Venus is fully despun!

Of course, from the sun's center-point perspective, Venus will spin down like this:

3 ~ 2 ~ 1 ~ 0
04-04-2022 09:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Xadoman wrote:
One hint: Venus.

It will soon appear to be a zero -rotational for sidereal view


0:1( rotations / orbits)

But it is only transitory and goes for 1:1 sidereal view when venus loses its spin and fully tidally locks.


Venus countdown looks like this


Using the convention that astronomers prefer to use (of sidereal rotations / orbit), Venus is slowing down like this (starting arbitrarily with 3 solar days left to lose):

2:1 (3 solar days) –– 1:1 (2 solar days left) –– 0:1 (1 solar day left) –– 1:1 (one long solar day on one side, perpetual darkness on the other side).

NOTE how Venus will have two 1:1 sidereal spin rates as Venus is fully despun!

Of course, from the sun's center-point perspective, Venus will spin down like this:

3 ~ 2 ~ 1 ~ 0

Venus has no moon. It's spin is not slowing.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
04-04-2022 12:22
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
Venus has no moon. It's spin is not slowing.


Have not you hear about tidal braking? Venus will be eventually tidally locked to sun wich means only one side faces the sun( just like the moon is tidally locked to earth , only one side faces the earth).
04-04-2022 16:31
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Xadoman wrote:
Venus has no moon. It's spin is not slowing.


Have not you hear about tidal braking? Venus will be eventually tidally locked to sun wich means only one side faces the sun( just like the moon is tidally locked to earth , only one side faces the earth).


You have your dog omelet yet
04-04-2022 19:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Xadoman wrote:
Venus has no moon. It's spin is not slowing.


Have not you hear about tidal braking? Venus will be eventually tidally locked to sun wich means only one side faces the sun( just like the moon is tidally locked to earth , only one side faces the earth).

No. The planet won't last that long.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
05-04-2022 00:55
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
No. The planet won't last that long.


I know, but that does not change the fact that Venus is losing its spin due to tidal braking.

Here is another question that I started to tought about.

The moon is tidally locked to earth but the earth is still spinning. Eventually the earth would also tidally lock to moon which means that earth s spin would match the moon s orbit.
But there is also the sun which wants to tidally lock the earth. If the earth would be tidally locked to the sun then the earth would face only the sun. Then the moon could not orbit the earth anymore. Then if sun tidally locks to something, then the earth and moon could not orbit the sun anymore. And so on and on.
05-04-2022 01:04
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
You have your dog omelet yet


2:1 (3 solar days) –– 1:1 (2 solar days left) –– 0:1 (1 solar day left) –– 1:1 (one long solar day on one side, perpetual darkness on the other side).


Hey loonie , could you explain how Venus coul be zero rotational at 0:1 but then starts to rotate again and ends in "geosynhronous orbit" at 1:1.

Would not it be more logical that the Venus would simply stop spinning with a countdown 3-2-1-0?
05-04-2022 08:38
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(11757)
Xadoman wrote:Would not it be more logical that the Venus would simply stop spinning with a countdown 3-2-1-0?

Xadoman, what is your native language? I'd like an opportunity to help you understand in your native speech.
05-04-2022 12:02
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
Xadoman, what is your native language? I'd like an opportunity to help you understand in your native speech.


Venus is closing into 0:1 zero rotational body from sidereal view. That is a fact. It is a transitory state. It will eventually be locked to the sun at 1:1 ( like moon is locked to earth at 1:1).

If our moon spun down like this:

4 ~ 3 ~ 2 ~ 1

Then, where's the dang ZERO?

The sidereal perspective does have a zero when a body spins down, but you need to look at Venus to find it.

Many Wiki pages on astronomy are wrong, but this is a good one that should explain why Venus will have a ZERO polar axial rotation rate as Venus is fully despun:

Sidereal time - Wikipedia

As far as I can determine, the only practical use for sidereal rotation rates would be when aiming Earth-bound telescopes since astronomers need to account for two 360° circular motions, Earth's daily 360° polar axial rotations, and Earth's yearly 360° orbit.

Other than that one practical use, the sidereal perspective just confuses the kajeebers out of most folks, even many astronomers.

Our closest neighbor, Venus, proves that the sidereal perspective has its inherent quirks.

Since Venus has a retrograde (CW) polar axial rotation, but orbits normally in the opposite CCW direction, aggregating these two opposite 360º circular motions together will instead result in one less apparent sidereal rotation, giving Venus 0.92 sidereal rotations, when in fact, Venus still has nearly two CW polar axial rotations left to lose:

—-snip—-

* A day on the surface of Venus (solar day) would appear to take 117 Earth days

* A year on Venus takes 225 Earth days.

Venus Facts - Interesting Facts about Planet Venus

Thus, a Venusian solar day lasts 117 Earth days, versus 225 Earth days to complete an orbit, so there's your 1.92 ratio.

Curiously, since Venus is now at 1.92 CW polar axial rotations per orbit, Venus has recently passed thru a rate of two (2) solar days per orbit, and after Venus loses 0.92 CW rotations of its remaining 1.92 CW polar rotations, Venus will then have a sidereal rotation rate of zero (0:1).

SO, there's your sidereal ZERO!

Since Venus actually has 1.92 solar days left today, at zero sidereal rotations (0:1) Venus will still have one final CW polar rotation left to lose before stopping at a final 1:1 sidereal spin rate.

As Venus proves, an astronomical body with a 0:1 sidereal rotation rate is possible, it just doesn't last for very long since a 0:1 rotation rate is transitory as it spins down to 1:1.

In short, the sidereal perspective is not some *God's Eye* view of reality since the sidereal perspective has its obvious quirks, which are more readily apparent with Venus due to Venus' retrograde CW rotations!

Using the convention that astronomers prefer to use (of sidereal rotations / orbit), Venus is slowing down like this (starting arbitrarily with 3 solar days left to lose):

2:1 (3 solar days) –– 1:1 (2 solar days left) –– 0:1 (1 solar day left) –– 1:1 (one long solar day on one side, perpetual darkness on the other side).

2 ~ 1 ~ 0 ~ 1

NOTE how Venus will have two 1:1 sidereal spin rates as Venus is fully despun!

Of course, from the sun's center-point perspective, Venus will spin down like this:

3 ~ 2 ~ 1 ~ 0

Remember, the center-point and sidereal (outside) perspectives will always differ by one (1), and as Venus proves, the sidereal perspective has its obvious quirks!

Clearly, the sidereal perspective does not reflect reality!



05-04-2022 13:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Xadoman wrote:
No. The planet won't last that long.


I know, but that does not change the fact that Venus is losing its spin due to tidal braking.

It isn't.
Xadoman wrote:
Here is another question that I started to tought about.

The moon is tidally locked to earth but the earth is still spinning.

The Moon is not tidally locked to the Earth.
Xadoman wrote:
Eventually the earth would also tidally lock to moon which means that earth s spin would match the moon s orbit.

That is tidal locking. It won't happen. The Earth and Moon will be destroyed first.
Xadoman wrote:
But there is also the sun which wants to tidally lock the earth. If the earth would be tidally locked to the sun then the earth would face only the sun. Then the moon could not orbit the earth anymore. Then if sun tidally locks to something, then the earth and moon could not orbit the sun anymore. And so on and on.

It doesn't. Earth's energy is not increasing. It's orbit remains the same.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
05-04-2022 13:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Xadoman wrote:
You have your dog omelet yet


2:1 (3 solar days) –– 1:1 (2 solar days left) –– 0:1 (1 solar day left) –– 1:1 (one long solar day on one side, perpetual darkness on the other side).


Hey loonie , could you explain how Venus coul be zero rotational at 0:1 but then starts to rotate again and ends in "geosynhronous orbit" at 1:1.

Would not it be more logical that the Venus would simply stop spinning with a countdown 3-2-1-0?

No.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
05-04-2022 13:06
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Xadoman wrote:
Xadoman, what is your native language? I'd like an opportunity to help you understand in your native speech.


Venus is closing into 0:1 zero rotational body from sidereal view.

It isn't.
Xadoman wrote:
That is a fact.

Not a fact. An argument. Learn what 'fact' means. It does not mean 'proof' nor Universal Truth.
Xadoman wrote:
It is a transitory state.

It is not transitory at all.
Xadoman wrote:
It will eventually be locked to the sun at 1:1

No. It will not be locked at all. Attempted use of ratio for void purpose (buzzword).
Xadoman wrote:
( like moon is locked to earth at 1:1).

It isn't. Attempted use of ratio for void purpose (buzzword).


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 05-04-2022 13:07
05-04-2022 14:09
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Into the Night wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Xadoman, what is your native language? I'd like an opportunity to help you understand in your native speech.


Venus is closing into 0:1 zero rotational body from sidereal view.

It isn't.
Xadoman wrote:
That is a fact.

Not a fact. An argument. Learn what 'fact' means. It does not mean 'proof' nor Universal Truth.
Xadoman wrote:
It is a transitory state.

It is not transitory at all.
Xadoman wrote:
It will eventually be locked to the sun at 1:1

No. It will not be locked at all. Attempted use of ratio for void purpose (buzzword).
Xadoman wrote:
( like moon is locked to earth at 1:1).

It isn't. Attempted use of ratio for void purpose (buzzword).


Glacial moraines are all FACTS
05-04-2022 14:11
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
Learning video for ITN about tidal lock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmc5XqChJpY&ab_channel=IsaacArthur

Ignore the part where he says that moon is still rotating over its axis. Otherwise the tidal braking is made clear.

In short:

Moon is tidally locked to earth. It has lost all of its spin.

From centre point view - 0:1( 0 rotations per 1 orbit)
From sidereal view - 1:1 ( 1 rotation per 1 orbit)


Similarily the Venus loses its spin because of tidal braking. Eventually it would only face the sun with one side( the sun would explode before that in real life) . Exctly like the moon is facing the earth now.
05-04-2022 15:09
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Xadoman wrote:
Learning video for ITN about tidal lock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmc5XqChJpY&ab_channel=IsaacArthur

Ignore the part where he says that moon is still rotating over its axis. Otherwise the tidal braking is made clear.

In short:

Moon is tidally locked to earth. It has lost all of its spin.

From centre point view - 0:1( 0 rotations per 1 orbit)
From sidereal view - 1:1 ( 1 rotation per 1 orbit)


Similarily the Venus loses its spin because of tidal braking. Eventually it would only face the sun with one side( the sun would explode before that in real life) . Exctly like the moon is facing the earth now.


Dude you said that the moon was not rotating then you bring in a video that says that the moon is rotating then say ignore the rotating part.

Seriously you are a whacko
06-04-2022 01:52
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
Check this out , Swan.

https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/articles/moons-rotation
06-04-2022 02:03
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Xadoman wrote:
Check this out , Swan.

https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/articles/moons-rotation


LOL the moon is not attached by spokes

Jesus

https://www.amnh.org/learn-teach/curriculum-collections/young-naturalist-awards/winning-essays/2004/afpectus-lunae-does-the-moon-rotate-on-its-axis#:~:text=The%20moon%20does%20rotate%20on,(i.e.%20multiple%20different%20views).

The moon does rotate on its axis. One rotation takes nearly as much time as one revolution around Earth. If the moon were to rotate quickly (several times each month) or not rotate at all, Earth would be exposed to all sides of the moon (i.e. multiple different views).


The Model Moon experiment.
With further research I learned that millions of years ago the moon actually did rotate much faster relative to its current speed. Over time it has slowed down because of the effect of Earth's gravity. Astronomers call this a "tidally locked" state because it will now remain at this speed.

Can you get it now, the tides on the Earth ARE ALWAYS MOVING AND SO IS THE MOON IF IT IS TIDALLY LOCKED

Capish
Edited on 06-04-2022 02:08
06-04-2022 02:57
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
You are comparing Tesla to an 8 grader ( who also turns out to be a female, which is a red flag for anything scientific ). You are a funny guy
06-04-2022 03:50
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(818)
Also , if something is rotating around its axis then all the points on its equator should average out to be at the same speed. With moon we clearly see that some points face the earth constantly, so they run constantly at lover speed compared to the points at the other side of the moon. Therefore the moon simply can not rotate over its axis.
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