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record high temp in france



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record high temp in france01-07-2019 08:01
boreallfor
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(19)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/weather/2019/06/28/europe-heat-wave-france-hits-all-time-heat-record-french-media-says/1595935001/

remember though, record high temperatures happen all the time

Edited on 01-07-2019 08:03
01-07-2019 10:28
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(807)
I think the important thing to observe, is that we aren't seeing heat records being broken daily, all across the world, all the time. Since Global Warming was declared a dire emergency, and immediate attention is critical, about 30 years ago... I'd have expected these high temperature records to have been mostly broken by now, and not even 'news' worthy. Of course, it's taken almost 300 years, to Global Warm, a little over 1 degree celsius, which really doesn't amount to much of anything. I don't know the official margin of error, on those record temperatures, but one degree give or take, seems reasonable...
01-07-2019 10:34
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
boreallfor wrote:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/weather/2019/06/28/europe-heat-wave-france-hits-all-time-heat-record-french-media-says/1595935001/

remember though, record high temperatures happen all the time


Indeed they do. Low temperature records happen all the time too.


The Parrot Killer
01-07-2019 18:39
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3851)
HarveyH55 wrote: I think the important thing to observe, is that we aren't seeing heat records being broken daily, all across the world, all the time.

A better question is why are there cold records still being broken? If I turn on an oven, what parts inside the oven get colder?

Last year in Bolivia and Peru, well over a century-and-a-half since the publication of The Communist Manifesto, thousands of alpacas died from *extreme* cold that fell well below their natural ability to endure. In case you aren't aware, alpacas have an amazing fur designed to keep them comfy-warm in the frigid altitude of the Andes. This particular cold snap, however, was very bad and way too cold.

Aren't the alpaca supposed to be dying from Peru and Bolivia being too hot and not from it being too cold? After all, the earth is supposed to be cooking warmer, not freezing so deeply that even alpacas are dying from the cold.

How is this possible? Wait, let me guess, Global Warming predicts the earth would get colder, am I right?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
01-07-2019 21:28
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(807)
The warmer temperatures, create extreme weather conditions. I've been living in a warmer climate for over 30 years, and have seen some wicked extreme weather. But then again, we had some really bad weather out west too, which I don't miss one bit, since that was extreme cold, and I had to walk to school. I really don't grasp the special powers of man-made CO2, but all bad things are some how linked to it, lot of smart people sat so, must be true.

We had record cold, record snowfall, and flooding throughout the midwest last winter. I don't remember how long previous records were set, but remember mention of 100 year storms, so guess it's been a while for some of them.

The main thing to be aware of though, is it took almost 300 years of burning, to raise the global temperature 1 degree celsius, or so we are being told. Every major weather event, is blamed on CO2, and only 1 degree change. How come the record breaking heat waves, are more than 1 degree celsius in some cases. That one degree doesn't help much in the winter. CO2 couldn't possibly account for much of anything.
01-07-2019 22:40
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
HarveyH55 wrote:
The warmer temperatures, create extreme weather conditions.

What warmer temperatures?
Things like hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. require COLD air to form. What gets a storm going is a difference of air temperature, that that anywhere is warmer.
HarveyH55 wrote:
I've been living in a warmer climate for over 30 years, and have seen some wicked extreme weather.
Caused by COLD air aloft. If warm air caused storms, you should get some real doozies out in Death Valley.

You don't. You get an occasional thunderstorm like anywhere else, but very few of those.
HarveyH55 wrote:
But then again, we had some really bad weather out west too, which I don't miss one bit, since that was extreme cold, and I had to walk to school.

Depends on where in the West you lived.
HarveyH55 wrote:
I really don't grasp the special powers of man-made CO2,
There are none.
HarveyH55 wrote:
but all bad things are some how linked to it, lot of smart people sat so, must be true.
No, smart people recognize the laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law. Only the deeply religious say all the bad things are due to 'climate change' (whatever THAT is!).
HarveyH55 wrote:
We had record cold, record snowfall, and flooding throughout the midwest last winter.
Just like every year. Records are made to be broken. Records have been broken every year since anyone decided to keep records.
HarveyH55 wrote:
I don't remember how long previous records were set, but remember mention of 100 year storms, so guess it's been a while for some of them.
It has, but not for all of them. Again, nothing links it to any magickal property of CO2.
HarveyH55 wrote:
The main thing to be aware of though, is it took almost 300 years of burning, to raise the global temperature 1 degree celsius, or so we are being told.
Since it is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth, what you are being told is a fallacy known as an argument from randU fallacy. They are making up numbers. The are actually a type of random number.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Every major weather event, is blamed on CO2, and only 1 degree change.
Well, it's certainly blamed on CO2, but we have no idea what the global temperature is.
HarveyH55 wrote:
How come the record breaking heat waves, are more than 1 degree celsius in some cases.
Local thermometers do record differences of more one degree, but they are LOCAL information. They have nothing to do with global information.
HarveyH55 wrote:
That one degree doesn't help much in the winter.
Doesn't make a lot of difference in the summer either.
HarveyH55 wrote:
CO2 couldn't possibly account for much of anything.

In terms of warming the Earth, it accounts for nothing. zip. zero. nada.

CO2 has absolutely no capability to warm the Earth.


The Parrot Killer
01-07-2019 23:27
boreallfor
☆☆☆☆☆
(19)
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.
01-07-2019 23:29
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.


So you keep saying.

It's hot in France. What else is new?

BTW, did you know that most records in France were destroyed in WW2? That kind of thing happened all over occupied Europe.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 01-07-2019 23:32
02-07-2019 00:14
boreallfor
☆☆☆☆☆
(19)
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.


So you keep saying.

It's hot in France. What else is new?

BTW, did you know that most records in France were destroyed in WW2? That kind of thing happened all over occupied Europe.

lmfao"ey heinrieh burn ze weather records so ze scientists cant see zeem in 2019"
Its not that its hot on france, its that the records, which go back before ww2, never had a temperature that high.
Germany also set a record-the hottest temperature ever recorded in June-yesterday. Did the americans falsify and burn the germans temperature records as well?
Let me guess whats next in your list of baseless claims and conspiracies: French thermometers are defective.
Edited on 02-07-2019 00:18
02-07-2019 01:09
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
boreallfor wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.


So you keep saying.

It's hot in France. What else is new?

BTW, did you know that most records in France were destroyed in WW2? That kind of thing happened all over occupied Europe.

lmfao"ey heinrieh burn ze weather records so ze scientists cant see zeem in 2019"
Its not that its hot on france, its that the records, which go back before ww2, never had a temperature that high.
Most records were destroyed in WW2.
boreallfor wrote:
Germany also set a record-the hottest temperature ever recorded in June-yesterday. Did the americans falsify and burn the germans temperature records as well?
Well, the Allies did. It tends to happen when you bomb cities, you know.
boreallfor wrote:
Let me guess whats next in your list of baseless claims and conspiracies: French thermometers are defective.

Why would they be defective?

The only thing defective here are your assumptions and your bad math.


The Parrot Killer
02-07-2019 01:56
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.



You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change. Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.
02-07-2019 02:03
boreallfor
☆☆☆☆☆
(19)
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.


So you keep saying.

It's hot in France. What else is new?

BTW, did you know that most records in France were destroyed in WW2? That kind of thing happened all over occupied Europe.

lmfao"ey heinrieh burn ze weather records so ze scientists cant see zeem in 2019"
Its not that its hot on france, its that the records, which go back before ww2, never had a temperature that high.
Most records were destroyed in WW2.
boreallfor wrote:
Germany also set a record-the hottest temperature ever recorded in June-yesterday. Did the americans falsify and burn the germans temperature records as well?
Well, the Allies did. It tends to happen when you bomb cities, you know.
boreallfor wrote:
Let me guess whats next in your list of baseless claims and conspiracies: French thermometers are defective.

Why would they be defective?

The only thing defective here are your assumptions and your bad math.

Not sure what a thermometer reading has to do with math. Its just a measurement. Also, I'd like to see the articles detailing how there are no climate records pre ww2, that is your claim, so the burden of proof is on you.
But lets say your unverified claim is true- we have 75 years of climte data instead of 130, is it not odd that there has never, not even once, been a temperature of 115 F in France?
Edited on 02-07-2019 02:19
02-07-2019 02:04
boreallfor
☆☆☆☆☆
(19)
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.



You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change. Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.

extinction events are natural and have occurred, but is this one natural like the others? remains to be seen.
02-07-2019 02:48
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3851)
HarveyH55 wrote:
The warmer temperatures, create extreme weather conditions.

Nope. There's a reason you don't have valid data supporting that argument: it is simply not true.

The most extreme weather on the planet is at the poles where it is coldest. The hottest places on earth, e.g. Death Valley, Sahara desert, etc... sure get a lot of nothing.

I notice that when one day is a few degrees warmer than the previous day, it doesn't trigger extreme weather. I also notice that when one day is a few degrees cooler than the previous day, it similarly does not trigger extreme weather.

HarveyH55 wrote:I've been living in a warmer climate for over 30 years, and have seen some wicked extreme weather.

We can conclude that the region in which you live has all the factors necessary for more frequent extreme weather events (however you wish to define that) and coincidentally has temperatures warmer than your previous region, which may or may not be one of the factors in the propensity for extreme weather.

HarveyH55 wrote: I really don't grasp the special powers of man-made CO2, but all bad things are some how linked to it, lot of smart people sat so, must be true.

How do those really smart people differentiate the man-made CO2 from the natural CO2? Why aren't they calling it "synthetic" CO2?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
02-07-2019 02:55
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3851)
James___ wrote: You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change.

You keep pretending to speak for me. That is rather dishonest.


James___ wrote:
Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.

You still haven't defined a lick of your religious dogma.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
02-07-2019 03:50
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.



You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change. Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.


Define 'climate change'.


The Parrot Killer
02-07-2019 03:53
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
boreallfor wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.


So you keep saying.

It's hot in France. What else is new?

BTW, did you know that most records in France were destroyed in WW2? That kind of thing happened all over occupied Europe.

lmfao"ey heinrieh burn ze weather records so ze scientists cant see zeem in 2019"
Its not that its hot on france, its that the records, which go back before ww2, never had a temperature that high.
Most records were destroyed in WW2.
boreallfor wrote:
Germany also set a record-the hottest temperature ever recorded in June-yesterday. Did the americans falsify and burn the germans temperature records as well?
Well, the Allies did. It tends to happen when you bomb cities, you know.
boreallfor wrote:
Let me guess whats next in your list of baseless claims and conspiracies: French thermometers are defective.

Why would they be defective?

The only thing defective here are your assumptions and your bad math.

Not sure what a thermometer reading has to do with math.
Its just a measurement.

A thermometer is just a measurement. Describing the temperature of France involves math. You were attempting to describe the temperature of France using bad math. You are also, by extension, attempting to describe the temperature of Earth.
boreallfor wrote:
Also, I'd like to see the articles detailing how there are no climate records pre ww2, that is your claim, so the burden of proof is on you.
There are no climate records at all.
boreallfor wrote:
But lets say your unverified claim is true- we have 75 years of climte data instead of 130, is it not odd that there has never, not even once, been a temperature of 115 F in France?

There are no climate records at all.

Climate is not a quantifiable value.


The Parrot Killer
02-07-2019 03:54
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
boreallfor wrote:
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.



You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change. Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.

extinction events are natural and have occurred, but is this one natural like the others? remains to be seen.


What extinction event?


The Parrot Killer
02-07-2019 03:55
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
IBdaMann wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
The warmer temperatures, create extreme weather conditions.

Nope. There's a reason you don't have valid data supporting that argument: it is simply not true.

The most extreme weather on the planet is at the poles where it is coldest. The hottest places on earth, e.g. Death Valley, Sahara desert, etc... sure get a lot of nothing.

I notice that when one day is a few degrees warmer than the previous day, it doesn't trigger extreme weather. I also notice that when one day is a few degrees cooler than the previous day, it similarly does not trigger extreme weather.

HarveyH55 wrote:I've been living in a warmer climate for over 30 years, and have seen some wicked extreme weather.

We can conclude that the region in which you live has all the factors necessary for more frequent extreme weather events (however you wish to define that) and coincidentally has temperatures warmer than your previous region, which may or may not be one of the factors in the propensity for extreme weather.

HarveyH55 wrote: I really don't grasp the special powers of man-made CO2, but all bad things are some how linked to it, lot of smart people sat so, must be true.

How do those really smart people differentiate the man-made CO2 from the natural CO2? Why aren't they calling it "synthetic" CO2?

Even Coca-Cola uses pure, natural, CO2.


The Parrot Killer
02-07-2019 04:55
boreallfor
☆☆☆☆☆
(19)
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.


So you keep saying.

It's hot in France. What else is new?

BTW, did you know that most records in France were destroyed in WW2? That kind of thing happened all over occupied Europe.

lmfao"ey heinrieh burn ze weather records so ze scientists cant see zeem in 2019"
Its not that its hot on france, its that the records, which go back before ww2, never had a temperature that high.
Most records were destroyed in WW2.
boreallfor wrote:
Germany also set a record-the hottest temperature ever recorded in June-yesterday. Did the americans falsify and burn the germans temperature records as well?
Well, the Allies did. It tends to happen when you bomb cities, you know.
boreallfor wrote:
Let me guess whats next in your list of baseless claims and conspiracies: French thermometers are defective.

Why would they be defective?

The only thing defective here are your assumptions and your bad math.

Not sure what a thermometer reading has to do with math.
Its just a measurement.

A thermometer is just a measurement. Describing the temperature of France involves math. You were attempting to describe the temperature of France using bad math. You are also, by extension, attempting to describe the temperature of Earth.
boreallfor wrote:
Also, I'd like to see the articles detailing how there are no climate records pre ww2, that is your claim, so the burden of proof is on you.
There are no climate records at all.
boreallfor wrote:
But lets say your unverified claim is true- we have 75 years of climte data instead of 130, is it not odd that there has never, not even once, been a temperature of 115 F in France?

There are no climate records at all.

Climate is not a quantifiable value.

What math? You look at a thermometer and read the number on it. I think you overestimate your own perceived cleverness, of which you posses not even an iota of. Go read that article-that measurement was taken in one city, yet is higher than any other previously taken anywhere in France, or are you that dull? Don't like it? Doesn't fit your views? Boo hoo.
02-07-2019 06:22
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
boreallfor wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.


So you keep saying.

It's hot in France. What else is new?

BTW, did you know that most records in France were destroyed in WW2? That kind of thing happened all over occupied Europe.

lmfao"ey heinrieh burn ze weather records so ze scientists cant see zeem in 2019"
Its not that its hot on france, its that the records, which go back before ww2, never had a temperature that high.
Most records were destroyed in WW2.
boreallfor wrote:
Germany also set a record-the hottest temperature ever recorded in June-yesterday. Did the americans falsify and burn the germans temperature records as well?
Well, the Allies did. It tends to happen when you bomb cities, you know.
boreallfor wrote:
Let me guess whats next in your list of baseless claims and conspiracies: French thermometers are defective.

Why would they be defective?

The only thing defective here are your assumptions and your bad math.

Not sure what a thermometer reading has to do with math.
Its just a measurement.

A thermometer is just a measurement. Describing the temperature of France involves math. You were attempting to describe the temperature of France using bad math. You are also, by extension, attempting to describe the temperature of Earth.
boreallfor wrote:
Also, I'd like to see the articles detailing how there are no climate records pre ww2, that is your claim, so the burden of proof is on you.
There are no climate records at all.
boreallfor wrote:
But lets say your unverified claim is true- we have 75 years of climte data instead of 130, is it not odd that there has never, not even once, been a temperature of 115 F in France?

There are no climate records at all.

Climate is not a quantifiable value.

What math?
The math you are ignoring for calculating a temperature for France or for the Earth.
boreallfor wrote:
You look at a thermometer and read the number on it.
That is one thermometer.
boreallfor wrote:
I think you overestimate your own perceived cleverness,
No, you are attempting to extend the reading of a single thermometer as a world temperature. It's not.
boreallfor wrote:
of which you posses not even an iota of.

YALIF (Yet another lame insult fallacy).
boreallfor wrote:
Go read that article-that measurement was taken in one city, yet is higher than any other previously taken anywhere in France, or are you that dull?

I can find even higher temperatures in France.
boreallfor wrote:
Don't like it? Doesn't fit your views? Boo hoo.

I just think your argument is all hot air.


The Parrot Killer
02-07-2019 06:35
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1230)
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
The warmer temperatures, create extreme weather conditions.

What warmer temperatures?
Things like hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. require COLD air to form. What gets a storm going is a difference of air temperature, that that anywhere is warmer.
HarveyH55 wrote:
I've been living in a warmer climate for over 30 years, and have seen some wicked extreme weather.
Caused by COLD air aloft. If warm air caused storms, you should get some real doozies out in Death Valley.

You don't. You get an occasional thunderstorm like anywhere else, but very few of those.


Bingo. It takes massive amounts of COLD air to get storms going. Today in Iowa we had 2 meter temps in the low 90s, full blown sunshine and dew points near 80. If you know anything about severe storms, you know these conditions are extremely good for a real snot knocker....but not a drop of rain. Why? No COLD air aloft.


This statement of yours helps you meet your obligation to bash Trump and stick your tongue up Obama's netherpipe in one efficient sentence. Well done.

~IBdaMann~
02-07-2019 19:10
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
The warmer temperatures, create extreme weather conditions.

What warmer temperatures?
Things like hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. require COLD air to form. What gets a storm going is a difference of air temperature, that that anywhere is warmer.
HarveyH55 wrote:
I've been living in a warmer climate for over 30 years, and have seen some wicked extreme weather.
Caused by COLD air aloft. If warm air caused storms, you should get some real doozies out in Death Valley.

You don't. You get an occasional thunderstorm like anywhere else, but very few of those.


Bingo. It takes massive amounts of COLD air to get storms going. Today in Iowa we had 2 meter temps in the low 90s, full blown sunshine and dew points near 80. If you know anything about severe storms, you know these conditions are extremely good for a real snot knocker....but not a drop of rain. Why? No COLD air aloft.


Yup. The one missing factor is that you had stable air. Air temperature wasn't dropping as fast with altitude as usual.

Unstable air produces storms. That is air temperature dropping faster than usual with altitude. All it takes is some to start air rising, and it rises faster and faster.

It's why storms appear near the windward sides of mountains. The mountains shove the air upward. If it's unstable and you have the moisture, you have storms.

Sometimes all you need is warmer air moving in over some colder air. That warmer air is move aloft, rather slowly. If you have the moisture, and that warm air is somewhat unstable, you get stratus clouds and drizzle...conditions very common in Seattle. We call that a warm front.

Sometimes all you need is colder air moving in under warmer air, throwing the warmer air aloft rapidly. If moisture is present and the air is unstable, that's when you get violent storms. We call that a cold front. Smaller versions are typically called a 'squall line'.

Both tornadoes and hurricanes suck upward for a reason.


The Parrot Killer
02-07-2019 19:26
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
boreallfor wrote:
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.



You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change. Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.

extinction events are natural and have occurred, but is this one natural like the others? remains to be seen.



If we were to go by models created for past ice ages, during 3 of the last 4 interglacial periods the temperatures spiked. What caused those spikes?
With what NASA says https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/CarbonCycle/page4.php at 400+ ppm there should be a corresponding increase in temperature. There should be a specific ratio of +1º C. = ?ppm.
They haven't done this yet. To go from 250 ppm to 400 ppm is an increase of 160%. For an increase of 110%, 120% etc. their should be a corresponding rise in temperature. This is one reason why I tend to think it's Natural Climate Variation. I do plan on pursuing that on my own. Have some other things to do first. It would also include a fairly consistent feedback mechanism.
02-07-2019 20:01
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8136)
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.



You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change. Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.

extinction events are natural and have occurred, but is this one natural like the others? remains to be seen.



If we were to go by models created for past ice ages, during 3 of the last 4 interglacial periods the temperatures spiked. What caused those spikes?

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth, not now, not then.
James___ wrote:
With what NASA says https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/CarbonCycle/page4.php at 400+ ppm there should be a corresponding increase in temperature. There should be a specific ratio of +1º C. = ?ppm.
NASA publishing bullshit again. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth, and CO2 has absolutely no capability to warm the Earth.
James___ wrote:
They haven't done this yet. To go from 250 ppm to 400 ppm is an increase of 160%. For an increase of 110%, 120% etc. their should be a corresponding rise in temperature. This is one reason why I tend to think it's Natural Climate Variation.
There is no such thing as a global climate. There is no such thing as a global weather.
James___ wrote:
I do plan on pursuing that on my own.
There is nothing to pursue.
James___ wrote:
Have some other things to do first. It would also include a fairly consistent feedback mechanism.

There is no need for a feedback mechanism for nothing happening. Building feedback mechanisms for the sake of having a feedback mechanism is pointless.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 02-07-2019 20:02
02-07-2019 21:50
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3851)
James___ wrote: If we were to go by models created for past ice ages, during 3 of the last 4 interglacial periods the temperatures spiked.

Translation: If we were to accept proxy-based gibberish created by scientifically illiterate morons specifically geared to gullible audiences, we can carry on with pointless discussions based on egregiously misinformed speculation of temperatures that can't even be measured/calculated.

James___ wrote: What caused those spikes? With what NASA says

Translation: Let us pray ...

James___ wrote: They haven't done this yet. To go from 250 ppm to 400 ppm is an increase of 160%.

Translation: Because of our sheer gullibility, we are just going to accept CO2 measurements right at an active volcano as the actual average global atmospheric CO2 levels.

James___ wrote: This is one reason why I tend to think it's Natural Climate Variation.

Translation: This is one reason why I tend to insist it's a completely undefined term.

James___ wrote: I do plan on pursuing that on my own.

Translation: I swear on my mother's grave that one day I will define this term!

James___ wrote: Have some other things to do first.

Translation: ... but that day will not be today ... or anytime soon.

James___ wrote: It would also include a fairly consistent feedback mechanism.

Translation: It would surely include religious miracles and wild violations of physics so that no one ever mistakes it for science.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
03-07-2019 02:03
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(807)
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.



You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change. Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.

extinction events are natural and have occurred, but is this one natural like the others? remains to be seen.



If we were to go by models created for past ice ages, during 3 of the last 4 interglacial periods the temperatures spiked. What caused those spikes?
With what NASA says https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/CarbonCycle/page4.php at 400+ ppm there should be a corresponding increase in temperature. There should be a specific ratio of +1º C. = ?ppm.
They haven't done this yet. To go from 250 ppm to 400 ppm is an increase of 160%. For an increase of 110%, 120% etc. their should be a corresponding rise in temperature. This is one reason why I tend to think it's Natural Climate Variation. I do plan on pursuing that on my own. Have some other things to do first. It would also include a fairly consistent feedback mechanism.


You ignore the first law of computer programming, Garbage in, equals Garbage out...

The models used to observe the past, beyond any accurately measured, and repeatable data, are garbage, and meaningless. Well, I'm sure they have sentimental value to those who wrote the programs, like any fun video game. Any of the climate models are garbage, in the same sense, because there simply no accurate, or consistently measured data to work with, specifically, not on the order of precision being examined. None of the data is repeatable, it's just a historic set of numbers, of unknown origin (you don't have a list of individuals, who made the readings, their methods, or an verification that the measurement was taken, in a consistent manner). We really have no way of knowing about events the pre-date recorded history. We don't really know what actually caused the ice age, or what caused the ice to melt, it's our first time as a species, and we really didn't take notes through most of it. A consensus, is purely a subjective belief. A best guess, is still a guess, and could still be very wrong. We just don't know any better. The computer models are just guessing, and biased toward what the expected outcome of the programmers.

Al Gore lied to you, and everyone, like any lawyer/politician, just told you what you wanted to hear, to gain your support. They talk about global temperatures, and global warming. Yet, they also tell us that it's not going to be that way, every where on earth, at the same time. Do you sort of see the lie there. If it's global, and it's already 1 degree warmer, then it should be causing record high temperatures, everywhere on the planet. At the very least we should be seeing near, or record breaking high temperatures, everyday. Wonder why they never report on record low daily temperatures, except in the winter... Wouldn't that be just as significant?
03-07-2019 04:06
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1230)
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
The warmer temperatures, create extreme weather conditions.

What warmer temperatures?
Things like hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. require COLD air to form. What gets a storm going is a difference of air temperature, that that anywhere is warmer.
HarveyH55 wrote:
I've been living in a warmer climate for over 30 years, and have seen some wicked extreme weather.
Caused by COLD air aloft. If warm air caused storms, you should get some real doozies out in Death Valley.

You don't. You get an occasional thunderstorm like anywhere else, but very few of those.


Bingo. It takes massive amounts of COLD air to get storms going. Today in Iowa we had 2 meter temps in the low 90s, full blown sunshine and dew points near 80. If you know anything about severe storms, you know these conditions are extremely good for a real snot knocker....but not a drop of rain. Why? No COLD air aloft.


Yup. The one missing factor is that you had stable air. Air temperature wasn't dropping as fast with altitude as usual.

Unstable air produces storms. That is air temperature dropping faster than usual with altitude. All it takes is some to start air rising, and it rises faster and faster.

It's why storms appear near the windward sides of mountains. The mountains shove the air upward. If it's unstable and you have the moisture, you have storms.

Sometimes all you need is warmer air moving in over some colder air. That warmer air is move aloft, rather slowly. If you have the moisture, and that warm air is somewhat unstable, you get stratus clouds and drizzle...conditions very common in Seattle. We call that a warm front.

Sometimes all you need is colder air moving in under warmer air, throwing the warmer air aloft rapidly. If moisture is present and the air is unstable, that's when you get violent storms. We call that a cold front. Smaller versions are typically called a 'squall line'.

Both tornadoes and hurricanes suck upward for a reason.


Today, we have 2 meter temps around 5 degrees COOLER than yesterday. Dew points are running about 7 degrees cooler. We have some cool air moving in aloft. Looking out the window I see a pretty good batch of cells brewing. No freezing rain on my global warming study boat though.


Into the Night wrote:If you have the moisture, and that warm air is somewhat unstable, you get stratus clouds and drizzle...conditions very common in Seattle. We call that a warm front.

I call that miserable!!


This statement of yours helps you meet your obligation to bash Trump and stick your tongue up Obama's netherpipe in one efficient sentence. Well done.

~IBdaMann~
03-07-2019 18:58
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.



You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change. Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.

extinction events are natural and have occurred, but is this one natural like the others? remains to be seen.



If we were to go by models created for past ice ages, during 3 of the last 4 interglacial periods the temperatures spiked. What caused those spikes?
With what NASA says https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/CarbonCycle/page4.php at 400+ ppm there should be a corresponding increase in temperature. There should be a specific ratio of +1º C. = ?ppm.
They haven't done this yet. To go from 250 ppm to 400 ppm is an increase of 160%. For an increase of 110%, 120% etc. their should be a corresponding rise in temperature. This is one reason why I tend to think it's Natural Climate Variation. I do plan on pursuing that on my own. Have some other things to do first. It would also include a fairly consistent feedback mechanism.


You ignore the first law of computer programming, Garbage in, equals Garbage out...

The models used to observe the past, beyond any accurately measured, and repeatable data, are garbage, and meaningless. Well, I'm sure they have sentimental value to those who wrote the programs, like any fun video game.




Aren't you the person who's time is too precious to spend learning? After all, you leisurely pursuits might suffer. I think people like you are funny because you have absolute faith in your computer and it's programming.
If you had to make it work, you couldn't because you don't understand it. You also don't understand why our planet has climatic cycles that it goes through. You're like Trump in this aspect. I read where he said there wasn't a homeless problem 2 years ago and where the military hadn't had a pay raise in 10 years. Yet making obviously false statements doesn't hurt his credibility. He's challenging people to prove him wrong. This allows him to control and manipulate other people. It's a bullying tactic and nothing more.
03-07-2019 20:39
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(807)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.



You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change. Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.

extinction events are natural and have occurred, but is this one natural like the others? remains to be seen.



If we were to go by models created for past ice ages, during 3 of the last 4 interglacial periods the temperatures spiked. What caused those spikes?
With what NASA says https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/CarbonCycle/page4.php at 400+ ppm there should be a corresponding increase in temperature. There should be a specific ratio of +1º C. = ?ppm.
They haven't done this yet. To go from 250 ppm to 400 ppm is an increase of 160%. For an increase of 110%, 120% etc. their should be a corresponding rise in temperature. This is one reason why I tend to think it's Natural Climate Variation. I do plan on pursuing that on my own. Have some other things to do first. It would also include a fairly consistent feedback mechanism.


You ignore the first law of computer programming, Garbage in, equals Garbage out...

The models used to observe the past, beyond any accurately measured, and repeatable data, are garbage, and meaningless. Well, I'm sure they have sentimental value to those who wrote the programs, like any fun video game.




Aren't you the person who's time is too precious to spend learning? After all, you leisurely pursuits might suffer. I think people like you are funny because you have absolute faith in your computer and it's programming.
If you had to make it work, you couldn't because you don't understand it. You also don't understand why our planet has climatic cycles that it goes through. You're like Trump in this aspect. I read where he said there wasn't a homeless problem 2 years ago and where the military hadn't had a pay raise in 10 years. Yet making obviously false statements doesn't hurt his credibility. He's challenging people to prove him wrong. This allows him to control and manipulate other people. It's a bullying tactic and nothing more.


Yeah, my leisure time is precious, since I work full time, so I tend to spend it on things I enjoy, or learning things I need. I'm cheap, so I don't hire out repair or maintenance work either, and I'm a homeowner. One of my interest is electronics, and have been involved since my early teen years. I do understand computers pretty good, built my first 3 IBM compatibles, the last being a 486 dx4. I haven't kept up on it since, hate Windows, and ready built systems are sometimes cheaper, than buying the parts anymore. I'm not a power user, or gamer, so any general purpose build is good enough. 5 or 6 years ago, I started using microcontrollers. Little over kill for most of my projects, but they are cheap, save a whole lot of time. I actually do understand how computers work, and have had any trouble keeping this one running for 12 years or so. Needs a new keyboard, but everything is working fine. I do understand the a program is a set of instructions, arrange to perform a function designed by the programmer. It does exactly what it's instructions tell it to, it doesn't think or reason, like in the movies. Artificial intelligence, is still young, and only works on very specific tasks. I think they are pushing the self-driving cars a little too quick, and expect bad things to come of it at first. I don't think the technology will die, like the dozens of people, as they work out the flaws and bugs. Too many people want to play with their cell phones, instead of operating a vehicle. Not sure why they can't hire a ride, or take mass transit instead.

I think you'll find that Trump is completely wrong about much of anything, like CNN and the democrats like to make it seem. He was point out the border crisis in 2016, the democrats denied it, until a couple weeks ago. The people in congress had opportunities to go see it for themselves, and refused. They stilled won't accept Trump's solutions, and want to reward criminals, and invite more.

Climate cycles, ar also called seasons...
03-07-2019 22:45
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
James___ wrote:
boreallfor wrote:
This isn't a record high on that date, that is the highest ever recorded temperature in France, 114.6 Fahrenheit.



You should probably ignore itn and ibdamann. They don't care one way or the other about climate change. Natural variation could account for a lot of it.
These guys don't really care.

extinction events are natural and have occurred, but is this one natural like the others? remains to be seen.



If we were to go by models created for past ice ages, during 3 of the last 4 interglacial periods the temperatures spiked. What caused those spikes?
With what NASA says https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/CarbonCycle/page4.php at 400+ ppm there should be a corresponding increase in temperature. There should be a specific ratio of +1º C. = ?ppm.
They haven't done this yet. To go from 250 ppm to 400 ppm is an increase of 160%. For an increase of 110%, 120% etc. their should be a corresponding rise in temperature. This is one reason why I tend to think it's Natural Climate Variation. I do plan on pursuing that on my own. Have some other things to do first. It would also include a fairly consistent feedback mechanism.


You ignore the first law of computer programming, Garbage in, equals Garbage out...

The models used to observe the past, beyond any accurately measured, and repeatable data, are garbage, and meaningless. Well, I'm sure they have sentimental value to those who wrote the programs, like any fun video game.




Aren't you the person who's time is too precious to spend learning? After all, you leisurely pursuits might suffer. I think people like you are funny because you have absolute faith in your computer and it's programming.
If you had to make it work, you couldn't because you don't understand it. You also don't understand why our planet has climatic cycles that it goes through. You're like Trump in this aspect. I read where he said there wasn't a homeless problem 2 years ago and where the military hadn't had a pay raise in 10 years. Yet making obviously false statements doesn't hurt his credibility. He's challenging people to prove him wrong. This allows him to control and manipulate other people. It's a bullying tactic and nothing more.


Yeah, my leisure time is precious, since I work full time, so I tend to spend it on things I enjoy, or learning things I need. I'm cheap, so I don't hire out repair or maintenance work either, and I'm a homeowner. One of my interest is electronics, and have been involved since my early teen years. I do understand computers pretty good, built my first 3 IBM compatibles, the last being a 486 dx4. I haven't kept up on it since, hate Windows, and ready built systems are sometimes cheaper, than buying the parts anymore. I'm not a power user, or gamer, so any general purpose build is good enough. 5 or 6 years ago, I started using microcontrollers. Little over kill for most of my projects, but they are cheap, save a whole lot of time. I actually do understand how computers work, and have had any trouble keeping this one running for 12 years or so. Needs a new keyboard, but everything is working fine. I do understand the a program is a set of instructions, arrange to perform a function designed by the programmer. It does exactly what it's instructions tell it to, it doesn't think or reason, like in the movies. Artificial intelligence, is still young, and only works on very specific tasks. I think they are pushing the self-driving cars a little too quick, and expect bad things to come of it at first. I don't think the technology will die, like the dozens of people, as they work out the flaws and bugs. Too many people want to play with their cell phones, instead of operating a vehicle. Not sure why they can't hire a ride, or take mass transit instead.

I think you'll find that Trump is completely wrong about much of anything, like CNN and the democrats like to make it seem. He was point out the border crisis in 2016, the democrats denied it, until a couple weeks ago. The people in congress had opportunities to go see it for themselves, and refused. They stilled won't accept Trump's solutions, and want to reward criminals, and invite more.

Climate cycles, ar also called seasons...



Is there a reason why your English is so poor? It makes it difficult to understand you. Are you even an American?
Je sais, as tu un Americain? Ou tu habite? Je ne sais pas. N'est pas en l'Etat Unis.


An example, He was point out the border crisis
This also has nothing to do with the Earth's atmosphere or what influences it.
I do understand that by taking the time to learn I am in the wrong company.
As tu comprends quel ma parler a toi?

Harvey, taking the time to learn is a choice I made. You make excuses instead. If things work out for me, that will be why.
Edited on 03-07-2019 23:00
03-07-2019 23:12
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3851)
James___ wrote:Harvey, taking the time to learn is a choice I made.

¿Qué pucha pretendes que aprendiste?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
04-07-2019 04:38
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:Harvey, taking the time to learn is a choice I made.

¿Qué pucha pretendes que aprendiste?



I could say Para Engles vis, por favor Senora, yo ne hablamos Espanola.
It's funny. Once in the 7th grade my English teacher asked me why she found my paper on the other side of the room. I told her I don't know. I thought if my classmates wanted wrong answers, who was I to say No?
It's strange in that they thought my getting As meant something.
What happens when English is your 2nd language. Anymore I take pride in being a Norwegian-American.
People discriminate because that's all they have.
Jeg Norge too


p.s., it's sad. But know what's funny? Where I live put the US women's soccer team advancing to the World Cup Championship game on the last sports page. It wasn't about Kentucky. That's actually typical of the US. If it's not about you, who cares?
Kentuckians care more about basketball recruiting that may or may not happen. But it should've been on the front page of the sports section if not the paper. They are representing the US on the world stage.
04-07-2019 05:21
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(807)
Global warming is a non-issue, and low priority. I've got more interesting things to learn about. Different values, different goals, doesn't make me lazy or stupid, but I guess if that makes you feel smarter... Most of us Americans, families came from other countries. We are all Americans by birth or choice, if you need a seperate distinction to make yourself feel special, you probably aren't. Door is always open, if you want don't like it here, and want to go back to you origins... My language skills aren't all that bad, my typing, and worn out keyboard could use some work though. I'm not a professional writer, and typing stuff forums isn't for pay, or for school grades, so deal with it, or don't bother reading, if it's not up to your standards. It's functional enough for most.

My interest in global warming, isn't environmental, it's not something we control, or ever will. I am concerned about the financials, and economics, since the 'issue' is used to tax, raise prices, and pad profits. I think most of the people pushing to save the planet, are really more interested in profiting from it, and couldn't care less about the details, or whether there is any real concern, centuries down the road. We've been through extreme hot and cold periods in my life time, like been much worse in the distant past, before our burning stuff. Planet is self correcting, there are upper and lower limits to temperature, since life goes, and has for a very long time. I really don't need to know ever small detail, to understand something obvious. What you study for fun, and what I study for fun are different things. I tend to focus on things I can use and work with. We can't change the planet, or climate, just work with what we a given. To me, it's pointless to study something in great depth, that you can't do anything with. I do occasionally, but mostly for entertainment purposes, and I don't obsess over any of those things. Sometimes I'm waiting on parts, or just in between projects.
04-07-2019 06:38
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Global warming is a non-issue, and low priority. I've got more interesting things to learn about.



Then why debate it?
With me, I like history but doubt you know that. Rome fell because it was that good. Just look at it's Emperors. They line up like American presidents. It's politicians fought over it's wealth. So much like today.
It's like history repeating itself but we know that doesn't happen., right? And now I feel like the devil for saying that.
Rather queen don't you think?
04-07-2019 11:23
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(807)
Thought Rome fell because they were expansionist, and had to fight too many places, to hang onto what they took. Countries don't like to be conquered, usually need a significant amount of force to stay that way. Countries will fight hard, to keep from being conquered. The Romans simply spread themselves too thin, and too far from home. Back then, troop movement took weeks, months for reinforcements, where battles were usually just a day, maybe two.

Why debate it? I don't really get into debate at all, but I do hope to see an end to the climate change BS. Man-made CO2 has no capacity to cause the effects claimed, just not enough of it, and seem likely there was once a whole lot more CO2 in the atmosphere at sometime in the past.
04-07-2019 16:45
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3851)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Global warming is a non-issue, and low priority. I've got more interesting things to learn about. Different values, different goals, doesn't make me lazy or stupid, but I guess if that makes you feel smarter... Most of us Americans, families came from other countries. We are all Americans by birth or choice, if you need a seperate distinction to make yourself feel special, you probably aren't. Door is always open, if you want don't like it here, and want to go back to you origins...

Harvey, yours is the viewpoint of the vast majority of Americans. Yours is the reason Trump is President. The reason Hitlery had no chance was the extent to which the DNC is so completely out of touch with your view as well as the extent to which she considers you "deplorable."

HarveyH55 wrote: My language skills aren't all that bad, my typing, and worn out keyboard could use some work though.

Your skills are fine. You aren't getting paid to post here. Anyone nitpicking anything less than the substance of your point is simply finding it difficult to compete with your ideas.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-07-2019 05:23
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1230)
James___ wrote:
Rome fell because it was that good. Just look at it's Emperors. They line up like American presidents. It's politicians fought over it's wealth. So much like today.


...and which party is trying to take more wealth and put it into gov coffers?

...and which president is trying to let us keep more of our wealth?

Answer this one honestly, if you can.


This statement of yours helps you meet your obligation to bash Trump and stick your tongue up Obama's netherpipe in one efficient sentence. Well done.

~IBdaMann~
05-07-2019 07:40
James___
★★★★☆
(1349)
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
Rome fell because it was that good. Just look at it's Emperors. They line up like American presidents. It's politicians fought over it's wealth. So much like today.


...and which party is trying to take more wealth and put it into gov coffers?

...and which president is trying to let us keep more of our wealth?

Answer this one honestly, if you can.



You guys are stupid. Which party, blah, blah, blah.
You don't even care that $Trillion deficits are what's keeping a recession from happening.

It all depends on who you ask about tax cuts
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2018/10/16/the-middle-class-needs-a-tax-cut-trump-didnt-give-it-to-them/

But as you said, what party. Isn't it funny that America is about it's 2 political parties? And anymore that's all that matters.
I don't like either one but sides have to be chosen, right?
This is where I know I'm not as smart as you guys are. As long as the government keeps printing money and the dollar remains strong, we're good. And if there are any problems, we'll just blame one of the political parties and we're good, right?
It was nice Gasguzzler that you posted on July 4th that America is about what you want. It's not about the quality of life that we have or if it's sustainable. It's about now. And employer provided insurance isn't capitalism because the employee is usually only paying a small percentage of the benefit plan. That's socialism.
Capitalism, it's 100% paid for by the plan holder. You pay for it yourself. Many employers provide subsidized or free insurance.
Melania Trump's country uses employer provided health insurance. You know that, right? It's still socialism.
Edited on 05-07-2019 08:06
05-07-2019 11:41
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(807)
Before ObamaCare, employees weren't mandated to buy insurance, nor employers obligated to offer a plan. Employers didn't always pay part of the premiums, just the cost administering a group plan. Some employers are more generous than others, it was a perk, to attract new employees, and retain existing ones. Had nothing to do with socialism, until ObamaCare, just capitalism, and normal competition for quality employees, by healthy companies. Obama took that away from us, made it more expensive, employers offer less coverage, at higher cost to employees, to comply with a mandate, socialism at work. Doubling the national minimum wage is going to hurt capitalism even more. There will be few jobs, great push for automation, since minimum wages aren't skill oriented, and repetitious.

The lefties are critical of everything Trump, and have a negative spin to anything. Tax cuts are good for everybody, less government spending would be even better. Government needs to get out of the charity game, too many hand-outs and subsidies. Everyone should be expected to pull their own weight.
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