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04-03-2020 23:20
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(160)
No matter how you try to couch it, the numbers speak for themselves. 99.9964% of the world population is not infected with the virus (assuming published numbers).


I would not take those published numbers very seriously. Those are completely random numbers. I belive the number of infected is much much more larger and eventually I belive that everyone gets infected at one point. Some just do not feel anything like with common flu. This virus is out there literally everywhere. You have to live on some separated island that has no connections with outer world to not get infected.
I belive that there is going to be a panic soon and people will start to gather food to prepare for the pandemia but eventually as times goes by it becomes evident that there is nothing people could do to stop this virus spreading and the BAU continues.
Edited on 04-03-2020 23:22
04-03-2020 23:53
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
Xadoman wrote:
No matter how you try to couch it, the numbers speak for themselves. 99.9964% of the world population is not infected with the virus (assuming published numbers).


I would not take those published numbers very seriously. Those are completely random numbers. I belive the number of infected is much much more larger and eventually I belive that everyone gets infected at one point. Some just do not feel anything like with common flu. This virus is out there literally everywhere. You have to live on some separated island that has no connections with outer world to not get infected.
I belive that there is going to be a panic soon and people will start to gather food to prepare for the pandemia but eventually as times goes by it becomes evident that there is nothing people could do to stop this virus spreading and the BAU continues.


If you are infected, and have no symptoms, what are you worried about?


The Parrot Killer
05-03-2020 01:44
keepit
★★★★☆
(1239)
Novel carona virus COVID19.
The word novel means that it is a new strain of carona. That means, being new, that humanity doesn't have experience with it and therefore hasn't developed immunity to it. That means it can spread easier and that the illnesses might be more severe. The confusing thing is that the immune system puts up a battle in the lungs, among other places, causing pneumonia. This battle itself does damage which can cause destruction just like the virus itself can cause destruction. I'm still confused about this aspect.
05-03-2020 02:22
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2534)
keepit wrote:immune system puts up a battle ...which can cause destruction ...

"Cytokine storm is now seen as a likely major cause of mortality in the 1918-20 "Spanish flu" " https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140227142250.htm

"an overproduction of immune cells and their activating compounds (cytokines), which, in a flu infection, is often associated with a surge of activated immune cells into the lungs. The resulting lung inflammation and fluid buildup can lead to respiratory distress and can be contaminated by a secondary bacterial pneumonia -- often enhancing the mortality in patients."

There are also a number of diseases associated with damage by our own immune system: Asthma, Eczema (anything allergy related really), Crohn's disease, ...
05-03-2020 03:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
keepit wrote:
Novel carona virus COVID19.
The word novel means that it is a new strain of carona. That means, being new, that humanity doesn't have experience with it and therefore hasn't developed immunity to it. That means it can spread easier and that the illnesses might be more severe. The confusing thing is that the immune system puts up a battle in the lungs, among other places, causing pneumonia. This battle itself does damage which can cause destruction just like the virus itself can cause destruction. I'm still confused about this aspect.


Not correct.

It is simply a strain that has transferred to humans. Humans may already have effective antibodies due to a related virus.

The flu may or may not result in pneumonia.


The Parrot Killer
05-03-2020 03:45
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
tmiddles wrote:
keepit wrote:immune system puts up a battle ...which can cause destruction ...

"Cytokine storm is now seen as a likely major cause of mortality in the 1918-20 "Spanish flu" " https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140227142250.htm

"an overproduction of immune cells and their activating compounds (cytokines), which, in a flu infection, is often associated with a surge of activated immune cells into the lungs. The resulting lung inflammation and fluid buildup can lead to respiratory distress and can be contaminated by a secondary bacterial pneumonia -- often enhancing the mortality in patients."

There are also a number of diseases associated with damage by our own immune system: Asthma, Eczema (anything allergy related really), Crohn's disease, ...

You two really want to panic over nothing, don't you? Go dig your bunker now.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 05-03-2020 03:45
05-03-2020 03:56
keepit
★★★★☆
(1239)
You're full of beans. There's no panic, just education of potential patients.
Where did you get the idea that it is simply a strain that never got to humans?
Also, antibodies against the specific strain are more effective than related antibodies.
Why don't you make sure what you say about health related topics.
You're telling the story the way you want it to be, not the way it really is.
05-03-2020 04:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
keepit wrote:...deleted Mantras 5...21...29...
Also, antibodies against the specific strain are more effective than related antibodies.
...deleted Mantras 5...35d...12...


No, they aren't. A single antibody can fight several different viruses. If a virus susceptible to that antibody is found in the body, the body will simply make more of the same.

I don't think you have any clue how the immune system works.


The Parrot Killer
05-03-2020 04:20
keepit
★★★★☆
(1239)
Trying to explain how to protect yourself.
You must know that in general a broad spectrum antibiotic isn't as effective against a specific bacteria as an antibiotic targeted against that bacteria. It is usually the same principle regarding antibodies. True, sometimes antibodies can work against a range of pathogens but to strive for the best, is best.
Bottom line, to count on existing antibodies being able to protect against a novel virus is negligence.

Often the ones saying, "don't panic", are the ones that are most concerned.
Hopefully you understand the principle of projection.
Edited on 05-03-2020 04:23
05-03-2020 04:24
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2534)
keepit wrote:...antibodies against the specific strain are more effective than related antibodies....
And if this wasn't a problem we wouldn't have a high fatality rate.

How is it ITN that you consider the experts in the field to be incompetent and/or liars?
05-03-2020 04:27
keepit
★★★★☆
(1239)
Projection
05-03-2020 04:37
James___
★★★★★
(2471)
keepit wrote:
Mandatory HOME quarantines.



Wearing a mask would be a thought. Maybe using hand sanitizers.
With me though, where I live it's doubtful I'll be around anyone that's been around affected people. If I lived in the Seattle area or some place with a lot of international flights, I'd be more concerned.
Since Sea-Tac has many flights to the Orient, not surprising that it would show itself there the way it has. And if ITN quits posting during this event which might become an epidemic, then we could wonder if
he's just another random number.
05-03-2020 04:39
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2534)
James___ wrote:...where I live it's doubtful I'll be around anyone that's been around affected people....
Yet

It's estimated by some experts that 40-70% of the global population will eventually be infected.
05-03-2020 05:04
keepit
★★★★☆
(1239)
To say the least, it's a fluid situation.
05-03-2020 11:28
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1775)
The common cold, actually is part of the coronavirus family of viruses. Coronaviruses are common among animals. The common cold, isn't just one particular virus, which is part of the reason why there is no vaccine. The flu, isn't a single virus, just fewer than a common cold, but generally more severe. The vaccine isn't as effective as most people think. Antibodies aren't our first line of defense, to fight pathogens.

I'm pretty sure that everybody has had a common cold, and the flu, and a few other thing during their lives. Very few need medical attention to survive. COVID-19 isn't that special, it's just headline news, on tabloid style media. I'd imagine we would have a similar panicked reaction, if the news were to track and report every respiratory infection related death, every year. Cold and flu kill tens of thousands of people every year. It's more common than we think, mostly because it's not headline news.

The COVID-19 has already spread, lot of people had been infected, got over it, just like a common cold. Containment efforts are futile, but help reduce panic 9the government is doing something). A vaccine, isn't likely to be effective, but it gives people hope, keeps them calm, rational. It's no more the end of the world, than climate change.
05-03-2020 16:14
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2534)
HarveyH55 wrote:
.... COVID-19 isn't that special.
[img][/img]So my first question is are you saying doctors and experts are dishonest, engaged in some fraud, incompetent or anything like that? And if so why?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/04/coronavirus-flu-comparison/

"coronavirus outbreak had infected more than 90,000 people and killed more than 3,000" 3000/90000 = 3.3%

"influenza — known as the common flu — has infected as many as 45 million Americans since October and killed as many as 46,000"
46000/45000000 = 0.1%

What if 45 million people got a virus with a 3.3% mortality rate?
1,485,000 dead

HarveyH55 wrote: It's no more the end of the world, than climate change.
It is a really good parrallel issue to debate. The world will not end. A lot of damage may be done though. We should absolutely do our best to mitigate that damage.
Edited on 05-03-2020 16:17
05-03-2020 16:42
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(6270)
tmiddles wrote: So my first question is are you saying doctors and experts are dishonest, engaged in some fraud, incompetent or anything like that? And if so why?

Are you really asking whether or not doctors, nurses and other healthcare practitioners are actually subject to political pressure from politicians?

Are you implying that politicians somehow don't rush to address irrational fears and panic of their constituents in a very public, pandering manner instead of just doing nothing because the public's fears are baseless?

What exactly is your question?


.


Sea level varies from place to place in the world - keepit

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-03-2020 18:32
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1775)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
.... COVID-19 isn't that special.
[img][/img]So my first question is are you saying doctors and experts are dishonest, engaged in some fraud, incompetent or anything like that? And if so why?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/04/coronavirus-flu-comparison/

"coronavirus outbreak had infected more than 90,000 people and killed more than 3,000" 3000/90000 = 3.3%

"influenza — known as the common flu — has infected as many as 45 million Americans since October and killed as many as 46,000"
46000/45000000 = 0.1%

What if 45 million people got a virus with a 3.3% mortality rate?
1,485,000 dead

HarveyH55 wrote: It's no more the end of the world, than climate change.
It is a really good parrallel issue to debate. The world will not end. A lot of damage may be done though. We should absolutely do our best to mitigate that damage.


The number of people infected is unknown, and may never be known with any certainty. Vast majority of people getting in, will have no way of know if it's a common seasonal cold, or the sinister superbug.

China, has about 5 times the population density, of even our most crowded, rat infested shithole cities. Your calculations are simplistic, in accurate, alarmist. Are you afraid of cold and flu season every year? The same people at risk of dying, do to complication from common cold and flu every year, are the same people dying from COVID-19. This year, will be the worst, but they are working on vaccines, anti-viral drugs, and more effective treatments. The death rate, should fall, to what we normal expect every year for all respiratory infections every year. It's the media, and politicians, who are causing all the panic, just like they do with 'climate change', baseless nonsense
05-03-2020 20:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
keepit wrote:
Trying to explain how to protect yourself.

No, you are trying to instill panic.
keepit wrote:
You must know that in general a broad spectrum antibiotic isn't as effective against a specific bacteria as an antibiotic targeted against that bacteria.

I am not talking about antibiotics. Pay attention.
keepit wrote:
It is usually the same principle regarding antibodies.

You don't know how antibodies work. That's obvious.
keepit wrote:
True, sometimes antibodies can work against a range of pathogens

They usually do.
keepit wrote:
but to strive for the best, is best.

You don't get to choose. Your immune system is no automatic. You can inhibit it somewhat by panicking though.
keepit wrote:
Bottom line, to count on existing antibodies being able to protect against a novel virus is negligence.

No, it's necessary.
keepit wrote:
Often the ones saying, "don't panic", are the ones that are most concerned.

Non-sequitur fallacy.
keepit wrote:
Hopefully you understand the principle of projection.

Obviously YOU don't. You are the one that is concerned here...to the point of trying to instill panic.

Like any flu, practice decent hygiene. Wash your hands, avoid touching your nose, eyes, or ears or mouth with unwashed hands. Avoid travel to heavily infected areas.

Considering the panic these days, avoid cruise ships as well. You just might get stranded on the thing.


The Parrot Killer
05-03-2020 20:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
tmiddles wrote:
keepit wrote:...antibodies against the specific strain are more effective than related antibodies....
And if this wasn't a problem we wouldn't have a high fatality rate.

We don't. Only 0.000043% of the world population has died from this flu (assuming published numbers).
tmiddles wrote:
How is it ITN that you consider the experts in the field to be incompetent and/or liars?

You don't get to speak for them. I am calling YOU an incompetent AND a liar.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 05-03-2020 20:57
05-03-2020 21:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Mandatory HOME quarantines.



Wearing a mask would be a thought.

A paper mask will not stop a virus at all.
James___ wrote:
Maybe using hand sanitizers.

They don't do anything beyond washing your hands normally and practicing decent hygiene.
James___ wrote:
With me though, where I live it's doubtful I'll be around anyone that's been around affected people. If I lived in the Seattle area or some place with a lot of international flights, I'd be more concerned.

All the cases so far in the Seattle area had more to do with a single hospital (already known for it's incompetence) than anything else.
James___ wrote:
Since Sea-Tac has many flights to the Orient, not surprising that it would show itself there the way it has.

The hospital affected is actually a fair distance from SeaTac airport.


The Parrot Killer
05-03-2020 21:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:...where I live it's doubtful I'll be around anyone that's been around affected people....
Yet

It's estimated by some experts that 40-70% of the global population will eventually be infected.


Define 'expert'. Maybe you can describe what you worship.


The Parrot Killer
05-03-2020 21:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
keepit wrote:
To say the least, it's a fluid situation.

It's not even a situation.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 05-03-2020 21:03
05-03-2020 21:06
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: So my first question is are you saying doctors and experts are dishonest, engaged in some fraud, incompetent or anything like that? And if so why?

Are you really asking whether or not doctors, nurses and other healthcare practitioners are actually subject to political pressure from politicians?

Are you implying that politicians somehow don't rush to address irrational fears and panic of their constituents in a very public, pandering manner instead of just doing nothing because the public's fears are baseless?

What exactly is your question?


.


He doesn't have one. He is trying to go for his 'expert' angle again. His question is actually just a Mantra 35d.


The Parrot Killer
06-03-2020 00:04
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1775)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: So my first question is are you saying doctors and experts are dishonest, engaged in some fraud, incompetent or anything like that? And if so why?

Are you really asking whether or not doctors, nurses and other healthcare practitioners are actually subject to political pressure from politicians?

Are you implying that politicians somehow don't rush to address irrational fears and panic of their constituents in a very public, pandering manner instead of just doing nothing because the public's fears are baseless?

What exactly is your question?


.


The IPCC hiers a lot doctorates, experts, even medical doctors, who are dishonest, commit fraud, and grossly incompetent...

The media hiers medical people, which the bestow the title 'expert', though many don't seem to have much practical experience, least not for the material of the interview. They can read a script though. Got to do something for money, after you lose your license to practice...

Basically, Trump, the governors, and many others are working hardest, to avoid panic. They need to inform, and reassure the public. They also need the public to be careful, and take precautions. Not a real easy job. Unfortunately, it's an election year, so even though panic is our worst enemy in the situation, it's also a great political weapon. It's also an operatunity to get rich.
06-03-2020 01:24
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2534)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: ...are you saying doctors and experts are dishonest,...

Are you really asking whether or not doctors...subject to political pressure...
Into the Night wrote:Define 'expert'.
I'm not talking about a NY Times reporter. I'm talking about Harvey (and maybe you?) deciding that when Marc Lipsitch, Harvard epidemiologist, has determined that with this novel corona virus:
""it's likely we'll see a global pandemic" of coronavirus, with 40 to 70 percent of the world's population likely to be infected this year."
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/482794-officials-say-the-cdc-is-preparing-for

He's just full of crap, you can discard what he's said and substitute your own good ol' horse sense on the subject and proclaim it's not a big deal. Or to be accurate and quote Harvey directly, it's:
HarveyH55 wrote:...baseless nonsense...experts, even medical doctors, who are dishonest, commit fraud, and grossly incompetent...The media hiers medical people, which the bestow the title 'expert',...


Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:...high fatality rate.
We don't. Only 0.000043% of the world population
Of those infected of course, goof ball. I guess you think a Cobra bite's mortality rate is low too.
06-03-2020 02:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: ...are you saying doctors and experts are dishonest,...

Are you really asking whether or not doctors...subject to political pressure...
Into the Night wrote:Define 'expert'.
I'm not talking about a NY Times reporter. I'm talking about Harvey (and maybe you?) deciding that when Marc Lipsitch, Harvard epidemiologist, has determined that with this novel corona virus:
""it's likely we'll see a global pandemic" of coronavirus, with 40 to 70 percent of the world's population likely to be infected this year."
...deleted Holy Link to news organization...

Rather a rash prediction, since the infection rate is so low.
tmiddles wrote:
He's just full of crap,

I would say that he is.
tmiddles wrote:
you can discard what he's said and substitute your own good ol' horse sense on the subject and proclaim it's not a big deal.

Harvard is full of idiots like this. Worse, they are arrogant idiots.
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:...high fatality rate.
We don't. Only 0.000043% of the world population
Of those infected of course, goof ball. I guess you think a Cobra bite's mortality rate is low too.

It is. Very few people suffer cobra bites.


The Parrot Killer
06-03-2020 03:15
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2534)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:.I guess you think a Cobra bite's mortality rate is low too.
It is. Very few people suffer cobra bites.
Well that sums up your rational approach to this right there.

You might want to get educated on what a "RATE" is.
Edited on 06-03-2020 03:15
06-03-2020 03:26
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted Mantras 25a...8...


No argument presented.


The Parrot Killer
06-03-2020 11:51
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1775)
Not even 1% if the world population will be tested. There is no other way to tell if an individual is infected with COVID-19. The media, politicians, 'experts' can make any claims they wish, show all kinds of scary numbers they want. The reality, is they can possibly know. It's no secret, no one disputes, that 80% of the people that did test positive, only had mild symptoms, just like the common cold. Why would people get tested, for a common cold? Because they were among people who had been known to be exposed, and potentially infected. The are in the high risk of complications group. Those who suspected they might have been exposed, but never felt symptoms, or only had a mild response, wouldn't generally volunteer for a minimal 14 day quarantine. Specially, if it means being shoved in a groups of people, also suspected of being infected. Isolation, doesn't necessarily mean the sick people are kept separate from each other, just removed from the general, healthy, population. All the numbers, are based on those people, who have actually been tested, and confirmed positive, which we know is only as small percentage of the people, who were actually exposed. Those with mild symptoms are over it, in 5-7 days, just like a common cold. They can spread it before and after, that short period. Vast majority of these mild cases, will go about their normal lives, as if they only had a mild common cold. They can't afford to miss work. It's a huge inconvenience for most, to self isolate, even for a few days. The only thing we can learn, is the geographical spread of COVID-19, not the percent age of the population infected. All calculations contain a huge margin of error, since actual numbers of those infected, can never be known.
08-03-2020 22:57
Nobi
☆☆☆☆☆
(8)
Into the Night wrote:

James___ wrote:
Maybe using hand sanitizers.

They don't do anything beyond washing your hands normally and practicing decent hygiene.


According to this website, coronavirus is an enveloped virus, it has an outer membrane formed of oil and fat. The alcohol in the handsanitier attacks this envelope, rendering the virus ineffective.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/03/hand-sanitizer-effective-soap-water-make-12339048/
08-03-2020 23:44
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(6270)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:He's just full of crap,
I would say that he is.


Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote: you can discard what he's said and substitute your own good ol' horse sense on the subject and proclaim it's not a big deal.
Harvard is full of idiots like this. Worse, they are arrogant idiots.






.


Sea level varies from place to place in the world - keepit

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
09-03-2020 00:10
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2534)
IBdaMann wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Harvard is full of idiots ....

So the man acused of being an idiot full of crap (no arguments presented)
https://ccdd.hsph.harvard.edu/people/marc-lipsitch/
"Marc Lipsitch is Professor of Epidemiology and Director of the Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. He is an author of more than 250 peer-reviewed publications on antimicrobial resistance..."



So let's apply this to anything practical:

"So called experts on _________ are just a bunch of idiots, full of crap, and while I have no training, credentials, and have nothing to reference, I'm going to say I know better."

Insert any area of expertise you like. Here are some to try out:
Roofing
Cardiology
Deisel Transmissions
Criminal Law
Explosives
Infecteous Disease

....

Oh and don't forget!:
Physics
Thermodynamics
Atmospheric Radiation
Meteorology

....

But of course what can any expert, anyone at all, know in the universe of ITN/IBD? Trick question, the first law there is
NOTHING CAN BE KNOWN
Edited on 09-03-2020 00:13
09-03-2020 00:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(6270)
tmiddles wrote: So the man acused of being an idiot full of crap (no arguments presented)

Are you about to snap right back into mindlessly listing a bunch of credentials as your PROOF that a certain individuals can't possibly ever be full of crap ... especially if you have deemed them "authority" figures that you OBEY?


I hope you aren't seriously pursuing fallacy 34)a:

34) Pretending to Speak for Others
a) Authority that Cannot be Cross-Examined



tmiddles wrote: He is an author of more than 250 peer-reviewed publications on antimicrobial resistance..."

Big fugging deal. He wrote some documents. I do that every day. All I know is that he's not here to be cross-examined.

Dismissed.

You are, however, welcome to express his arguments as your own and defend them, seeing as you ARE here to be cross-examined.

So let's apply this to anything practical:

tmiddles' so called "experts" on _________ are never present to be cros-examined and he has no training, credentials, and won't accept the possibility that perhaps some of the posters in the forum might know more than the bozos he currently worships and OBEYS, ... with political views being the determining factor

Did I mention "Dismissed"?


.


Sea level varies from place to place in the world - keepit

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
09-03-2020 02:11
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2534)
IBdaMann wrote:
Are you about to snap right back into mindlessly listing a bunch of credentials as your PROOF ...

You're entitled to your opinion of course. What was that though?

Why is Marc Lipsitch an "idiot" ?

You see IBD it's conventional in a debate setting to actually make an argument and not just say stuff.

You and ITN have gone to some lengths to make a case as to why Wikipedia is unreliable.

I confess I'm not a doctor and don't personally know much about the flu. Marc does. If you are going to dismiss what he has to say then do you have a reason?

Now if you are going to invoke an "appeal to authority" objection that means I'm make "an argument" and relying on an expert to support it and not supporting it myself.

The question is why do you regard what Mr. Lipsitch has had to say as being in dispute?

Surely you are not saying everything all the time is in dispute just cuz. or are you ~~~
Edited on 09-03-2020 02:12
09-03-2020 02:14
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(6270)
tmiddles wrote:Why is Marc Lipsitch an "idiot" ?

I give up. Why is he an idiot?



.


Sea level varies from place to place in the world - keepit

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
09-03-2020 02:23
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2534)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:Why is Marc Lipsitch an "idiot" ?

I give up. Why is he an idiot?


Well according to IBdaMann of this forum, because Into The Night says so.

IBdaMann wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:He's just full of crap,
I would say that he is.


Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote: you can discard what he's said and substitute your own good ol' horse sense on the subject and proclaim it's not a big deal.
Harvard is full of idiots like this. Worse, they are arrogant idiots.






.


Is that the appeal to a lunatic fallacy? I think so.
09-03-2020 18:53
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
Nobi wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

James___ wrote:
Maybe using hand sanitizers.

They don't do anything beyond washing your hands normally and practicing decent hygiene.


According to this website, coronavirus is an enveloped virus, it has an outer membrane formed of oil and fat. The alcohol in the handsanitier attacks this envelope, rendering the virus ineffective.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/03/hand-sanitizer-effective-soap-water-make-12339048/


Alcohol will do that to most any virus. That's why they use the stuff in hospitals so much.


The Parrot Killer
09-03-2020 19:12
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Harvard is full of idiots ....

So the man acused of being an idiot full of crap (no arguments presented)
https://ccdd.hsph.harvard.edu/people/marc-lipsitch/
"Marc Lipsitch is Professor of Epidemiology and Director of the Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

So? I don't particulary respect Harvard as an institution anymore. I find that graduates of that university tend to be arrogant and are often illiterate on many things. YOU don't get to speak for him either. You only get to speak for you. Mantras 4b...4c...34a...
tmiddles wrote:
He is an author of more than 250 peer-reviewed publications on antimicrobial resistance..."

Irrelevant. Science doesn't use consensus, and is not a publication or magazine. Mantra 37a.
tmiddles wrote:
So let's apply this to anything practical:

"So called experts on _________ are just a bunch of idiots, full of crap, and while I have no training, credentials, and have nothing to reference, I'm going to say I know better."

Redirection fallacy. Mantra 16b.
tmiddles wrote:
Insert any area of expertise you like. Here are some to try out:
Roofing

Pretty good at. That job basically requires a size 44 shirt and a size 4 hat.
[b]tmiddles wrote:
Cardiology

Enough to possibly keep people alive if they have cardiac arrest or thrombosis, and enough to deal with gunshot wounds to the lungs.
tmiddles wrote:
Deisel Transmissions

There is no such thing.
tmiddles wrote:
Criminal Law

Quite a bit. I am aware of the law and how to apply it.
tmiddles wrote:
Explosives

I both make, transport, and use explosives regularly, mostly low explosives. I hold a manufacturing license from the BATF. I still have all my fingers. I would say I'm competent at handling explosives.
tmiddles wrote:
Infecteous Disease[/b]

Enough to know how the immune system works and how it deals with different groups of viruses.
tmiddles wrote:
....

Oh and don't forget!:
Physics
Thermodynamics
Atmospheric Radiation
Meteorology

....

You already asked these questions and they have already been answered. Mantra 29.
tmiddles wrote:
But of course what can any expert, anyone at all, know in the universe of ITN/IBD?

Define 'expert'. Mantra 22...4e.
tmiddles wrote:
Trick question, the first law there is
NOTHING CAN BE KNOWN

Compositional error fallacy. Mantra 30...26...9a...29.


No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 09-03-2020 19:13
09-03-2020 19:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11793)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted Mantras 23...29...16b...30...24...38b...5...37d...4b...35d...22 (expert)...34a...16c...24....29...38a...


No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer
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