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PoliticalForum happenings for your entertainment06-01-2022 17:26
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
First, I'd like to simply share with you all a position held by a dude who goes by 'clennan'... He feels that COVID-19 does indeed cause death, and this how he proposes it occurs (in the form of a death certificate):

Line A: Sepsis (immediate cause of death)
Line B: Pneumonia
Line C: COVID-19 (underlying/triggering cause of death)

IOW, he holds that someone first catches COVID-19, then COVID-19 causes pneumonia, then pneumonia causes sepsis, and then sepsis causes death. Thus, he posits that COVID-19 is the cause of death because it was the beginning of the chain of events that led to death.

He also claims that COVID-19 "will rarely appear" on Line A of Section 1 of a death certificate.


Second, I'd like to share with you all, word for word, the newest rule on this particular forum ("Rule #16"):

16. MISINFORMATION AND QUESTIONABLE INFORMATION

Threads and posts meeting these three criteria will be considered misinformation and are not permitted: a) the information has been deemed to be false by authorities or deemed to be questionable; b) the information is presented in a factual way, such that a reader might not understand that the information is being debated or examined; c) the information has the potential to cause significant harm to readers. Threads and posts may be removed for this reason even if they cite a source, particularly if the source has been identified as a common source of misinformation by reputable sources. Threads and posts that fall into a gray area in regards to questionable information may be allowed to remain, but with a warning notice affixed to them and/or may have a portion edited.


I have decided to provide my feedback to the moderators (in the specific private feedback forum) on that particular rule, as follows:

I'm not sure why the moderators here wish to get into the business of thought policing, as that does NOT encourage open discussion, nor does it encourage learning new things, nor does it encourage the consideration of opposing viewpoints, but the manner in which the rule is written is not only completely and utterly meaningless but it is also impossible for forum users such as myself to adhere to (as a moderator, per the criteria mentioned below, could potentially consider anything to be "misinformation").

This rule lists out three specific criteria for "misinformation". The first one (a) does not specify what is meant by "authorities" nor does it specify why these so-called "authorities" (who remain unnamed) get to be the end-all-be-all regarding which information is true or not. The second one (b) is just plain stupid because ALL information is "debated and examined", including this very Rule #16 of yours... The third one (c) has similar issues that the first one has, but just replace the word "true" with "potentially harmful".

Rule #16 then goes on to explain that even posts that cite sources can be removed. Okay, fine, but then it says "particularly if the source has been identified as a common source of misinformation by reputable sources." This is simply more vague/meaningless tripe that cannot be adhered to because it doesn't specify WHO/WHAT these unnamed and so-called "reputable sources" are nor does it specify WHY these unnamed and so-called "reputable sources" get to determine whether or not other sources (also unnamed) are "common sources of misinformation".

In the end, this is all going to differ for each individual. For instance, I consider PolitiFact, Wikipedia, and the New York Times to all be "common sources of misinformation". I would additionally be willing to bet that much of what I consider to be "common sources of misinformation" are precisely what this forum's moderators would consider to be "reputable sources".

Again, I'm not sure why this forum wishes to get into the business of thought policing. I'm also not sure why this forum wishes to write and enforce a vague/meaningless and impossible to follow rule (as it is currently written). As I said before, this does NOT encourage open discussion, nor does it encourage learning new things, nor does it encourage the consideration of opposing viewpoints.


I did get a response from one of the moderators there (the one who decided to delete one of my posts under the (c) section of the aforementioned rule. His response:

I mostly agree with a lot of what you said, but my concern is this; You are not a medical professional and you are making pronouncements which if one were to follow, could lead to their death. If one were to take your statement, as it is written, then they could have a false sense of invulnerability and delay medical care that could save their lives. You did qualify your statement in subsequent posts, and I give you credit for that, but your statement as a stand alone post is just dangerous. If you had some of the qualifying statements in the post that you later went on to make, then I would not have deleted the post.

I find it interesting that he feels comfortable to claim that I "[am] not a medical professional" even though I am an anonymous person on a forum so he has absolutely no clue what I am, what my credentials are, or what I have studied or devoted my life (or parts of it) to.


So, that's an update on the recent political "climate change" of PoliticalForum. It's still better than DebatePolitics, which banned me because the mods there didn't like me intellectually embarrassing them. But I do like this forum and JustPlainPolitics the best because they are much more lax and I don't have to filter what I say in order to adhere to the forum rules.
06-01-2022 18:22
GasGuzzler
★★★★★
(2932)
Your next entry....

"Masks are dangerous because they give a false sense of invulnerability. This could cause death with Covid."

Explain in detail and rip the shit out of mask mandates, as I know you can. Maybe even demand that all pro mask posts be deleted.

Edited on 06-01-2022 18:36
06-01-2022 19:34
GasGuzzler
★★★★★
(2932)
***Reposting to quote the moderator***

If one were to take your statement, as it is written, then they could have a false sense of invulnerability and delay medical care that could save their lives.



Your next entry....

"Masks are dangerous because they give a false sense of invulnerability. This could cause death with Covid."

Explain in detail and rip the shit out of mask mandates, as I know you can. Maybe even demand that all pro mask posts be deleted
06-01-2022 19:39
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
Masks help but they don't make one invulnerable.
06-01-2022 20:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Your next entry....

"Masks are dangerous because they give a false sense of invulnerability. This could cause death with Covid."

Explain in detail and rip the shit out of mask mandates, as I know you can. Maybe even demand that all pro mask posts be deleted.


1) Masks have absolutely no capability to stop a virus. This is true of cloth masks, N95 masks, or medical Class 1 masks (surgical masks).

Class 1 medical masks have even larger pores than N95 masks (part of the specification requires it). What they DO have is a moisture barrier, used to guard against blood and fluid spatter during surgery. Neither mask is meant or even capable of filtering viruses.

2) Mask mandates cause a paradox, which I refer to as paradox M:

a1) I wear a mask to protect against covid19.
a2) I demand you wear a mask because mine does not protect me against covid19.

Anyone demanding that I wear a mask because I am sick is only admitting they are wearing a mask because they are sick.

Mask mandates are also unconstitutional. NOTHING gives the federal government authority to require the use of masks. Any such law violates the 9th, 10th and 14th amendments and article I, $9.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
06-01-2022 20:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
keepit wrote:
Masks help but they don't make one invulnerable.


Masks are completely ineffective against a virus. The do not help. They hurt. They are NOT designed to be worn for more than a couple of hours. Masks can and do harbor bacteria and fungi.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
06-01-2022 21:47
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
Well, if your mask is harboring something, that means that something didn't get into you lungs.
06-01-2022 23:14
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
GasGuzzler wrote:
***Reposting to quote the moderator***

If one were to take your statement, as it is written, then they could have a false sense of invulnerability and delay medical care that could save their lives.



Your next entry....

"Masks are dangerous because they give a false sense of invulnerability. This could cause death with Covid."

Explain in detail and rip the shit out of mask mandates, as I know you can. Maybe even demand that all pro mask posts be deleted


I didn't mention masks, but I did explain the issues with the rule using his own words against him.

and you are making pronouncements which if one were to follow, could lead to their death.

I responded to that one by saying that the same thing could be said about the statement: "COVID vaccines are safe and effective. You should get vaccinated", as there have been people who have followed that advice and suffered maiming or death as a result of it. He gave another response too:

I do not believe Covid vaccines are safe, effective, reliable, or even vaccines in the strictest of meaningof the word. I agree that everyone should make their own decision based on hte best information available. That isn't the problem. The problem is that you made a one sentence pronouncement that taken by itself is a pretty dangerous notion. Your other posts which elaborated on the idea were kept because you offered enough context to invite further investigation.

I responded by telling him that his very own statement (in his first sentence) would be in violation of Rule #16 (a) and how it could be argued that I might now get COVID and die because of his misinformation (according to the "authoritative" and "reputable" CDC) because I didn't get vaccinated due to it.

Basically, I'm just explaining how vague and meaningless the rule is, how it could be construed to mean just about anything, how it is impossible for forum users to adhere to it due to its vagueness, how it is being irrationally enforced, and how it hinders open discussion and challenging the status quo.
Edited on 06-01-2022 23:16
06-01-2022 23:16
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
keepit wrote:
Masks help but they don't make one invulnerable.

Masks don't help at all.
06-01-2022 23:18
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
keepit wrote:
Well, if your mask is harboring something, that means that something didn't get into you lungs.

Do you inhale and exhale??
06-01-2022 23:44
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
Are you suggesting biological particles are more likely to be caught in the mask by exhale than inhale?
06-01-2022 23:57
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
keepit wrote:
Are you suggesting biological particles are more likely to be caught in the mask by exhale than inhale?

No. I'm suggesting that the viruses/bacteria/etc on the mask at any given moment are not forever-bound to the mask. People inhale and exhale with that cloth/paper diaper over their face.
06-01-2022 23:58
GasGuzzler
★★★★★
(2932)
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
Well, if your mask is harboring something, that means that something didn't get into you lungs.

Do you inhale and exhale??


Off the cuff I'm going with a wild guess and going to say I do BOTH!

In the meantime, I will be checking with Google.


Radiation will not penetrate a perfect insulator, thus as I said space is not a perfect insulator.- Swan
07-01-2022 00:04
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
The ones that are trapped by the mask become inactivated in a "short" time.
07-01-2022 00:04
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
GasGuzzler wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
Well, if your mask is harboring something, that means that something didn't get into you lungs.

Do you inhale and exhale??


Off the cuff I'm going with a wild guess and going to say I do BOTH!

In the meantime, I will be checking with Google.

Unfortunately, the CDC strongly recommends that you DO NOT inhale and exhale, as that leads to super-spreader events and leaves you much more susceptible to contracting COVID-19.

Avoid death? Hold your breath.
07-01-2022 00:05
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
keepit wrote:
The ones that are trapped by the mask become inactivated in a "short" time.

How tight do you have your C-clamp on today??
07-01-2022 00:06
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
cute. very cute.

For a teenager or a grade schooler anyhow.
Edited on 07-01-2022 00:12
07-01-2022 00:12
GasGuzzler
★★★★★
(2932)
gfm7175 wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
Well, if your mask is harboring something, that means that something didn't get into you lungs.

Do you inhale and exhale??


Off the cuff I'm going with a wild guess and going to say I do BOTH!

In the meantime, I will be checking with Google.

Unfortunately, the CDC strongly recommends that you DO NOT inhale and exhale, as that leads to super-spreader events and leaves you much more susceptible to contracting COVID-19.

Avoid death? Hold your breath.


Gosh, that is very good advice.

Thanks COVIDEXPERTGFM.


Radiation will not penetrate a perfect insulator, thus as I said space is not a perfect insulator.- Swan
07-01-2022 00:40
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
GasGuzzler wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
Well, if your mask is harboring something, that means that something didn't get into you lungs.

Do you inhale and exhale??


Off the cuff I'm going with a wild guess and going to say I do BOTH!

In the meantime, I will be checking with Google.

Unfortunately, the CDC strongly recommends that you DO NOT inhale and exhale, as that leads to super-spreader events and leaves you much more susceptible to contracting COVID-19.

Avoid death? Hold your breath.


Gosh, that is very good advice.

Thanks COVIDEXPERTGFM.

You're welcome. I do what I can to combat right-wing conspiracy theorist anti-vaxxer science deniers like ITN and IBD.

Just vaxx and relax.
07-01-2022 02:32
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
keepit wrote:
Well, if your mask is harboring something, that means that something didn't get into you lungs.


No, it doesn't. It means what is growing on your mask will get into your lungs.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-01-2022 02:36
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
gfm7175 wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
***Reposting to quote the moderator***

If one were to take your statement, as it is written, then they could have a false sense of invulnerability and delay medical care that could save their lives.



Your next entry....

"Masks are dangerous because they give a false sense of invulnerability. This could cause death with Covid."

Explain in detail and rip the shit out of mask mandates, as I know you can. Maybe even demand that all pro mask posts be deleted


I didn't mention masks, but I did explain the issues with the rule using his own words against him.

and you are making pronouncements which if one were to follow, could lead to their death.

I responded to that one by saying that the same thing could be said about the statement: "COVID vaccines are safe and effective. You should get vaccinated", as there have been people who have followed that advice and suffered maiming or death as a result of it. He gave another response too:

I do not believe Covid vaccines are safe, effective, reliable, or even vaccines in the strictest of meaningof the word. I agree that everyone should make their own decision based on hte best information available. That isn't the problem. The problem is that you made a one sentence pronouncement that taken by itself is a pretty dangerous notion. Your other posts which elaborated on the idea were kept because you offered enough context to invite further investigation.

I responded by telling him that his very own statement (in his first sentence) would be in violation of Rule #16 (a) and how it could be argued that I might now get COVID and die because of his misinformation (according to the "authoritative" and "reputable" CDC) because I didn't get vaccinated due to it.

Basically, I'm just explaining how vague and meaningless the rule is, how it could be construed to mean just about anything, how it is impossible for forum users to adhere to it due to its vagueness, how it is being irrationally enforced, and how it hinders open discussion and challenging the status quo.


Frankly, any forum that has a rule as vague as this is inserting their own opinion over yours. They have therefore lost the protections of Title 47, $203. You can bring lawsuit against them for slander.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-01-2022 02:37
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
keepit wrote:
Are you suggesting biological particles are more likely to be caught in the mask by exhale than inhale?


No. They are GROWING ON YOUR MASK.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-01-2022 02:38
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
keepit wrote:
The ones that are trapped by the mask become inactivated in a "short" time.

Viruses are not trapped by masks.

Covid19 can remain intact in bone dry air for several days. Viruses are not 'inactivated'.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-01-2022 08:24
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
WebMD says that covid can remain active in dry air for up to 3 hours.
Where do you get your information?
Do you have any medical credentials?
Edited on 07-01-2022 08:28
07-01-2022 08:24
duncan61
★★★★★
(2021)
Just did my mothers funeral and mask wearing was compulsory in the lounge and chapel.My brother gave me one from his work that was triple layer and a good fit that was not too bad.I agree with you all that the single use cheap ones do nothing and do look like a nappy.The one my brother gave me was also black so that worked as I was a pall bearer in a black suit
07-01-2022 08:30
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
Very sorry for your loss Duncan.
07-01-2022 16:42
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
keepit wrote:
WebMD says that covid can remain active in dry air for up to 3 hours.

WebMD is full of shit. Viruses can remain intact well beyond that (several days is possible in the right conditions).

I suppose PoliticalForum would consider WebMD to be an "authoritative" and "reputable source" though?? Who knows... That forum has not defined what they mean by those terms within their fairly-recently-crafted Rule #16. They seem to be following the likes of Facebook , Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, etc. in such regard.

keepit wrote:
Where do you get your information?

Are you asking who I parrot? I do not parrot anybody. I have a mind of my own.

keepit wrote:
Do you have any medical credentials?

Irrelevant, especially on an internet forum such as this one.
07-01-2022 16:49
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
duncan61 wrote:
Just did my mothers funeral and mask wearing was compulsory in the lounge and chapel.My brother gave me one from his work that was triple layer and a good fit that was not too bad.I agree with you all that the single use cheap ones do nothing and do look like a nappy.The one my brother gave me was also black so that worked as I was a pall bearer in a black suit

The "triple layer ones" that your brother gave you are just as useless as "the single use cheap ones" (which can also have three layers)

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. You have my condolences.
Edited on 07-01-2022 16:54
07-01-2022 18:59
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
gfm,
That post was for itn.
Actually different viruses have different times regarding virulence.
Do you think you know more about medical science than WebMD?
07-01-2022 19:00
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
keepit wrote:
WebMD says that covid can remain active in dry air for up to 3 hours.
Where do you get your information?
Do you have any medical credentials?


False authority fallacy. 'Expert' worship.
Viruses aren't active outside the body.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-01-2022 19:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
duncan61 wrote:
Just did my mothers funeral and mask wearing was compulsory in the lounge and chapel.My brother gave me one from his work that was triple layer and a good fit that was not too bad.I agree with you all that the single use cheap ones do nothing and do look like a nappy.The one my brother gave me was also black so that worked as I was a pall bearer in a black suit

It is sad what this nonsense does to events like this.

It doesn't matter if the mask is 20 layers and comes with racing stripes. They are completely ineffective against a virus.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-01-2022 19:02
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
itn,
You don't actually think viruses grow on a mask?
07-01-2022 19:24
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
WebMD says that covid can remain active in dry air for up to 3 hours.

WebMD is full of shit. Viruses can remain intact well beyond that (several days is possible in the right conditions).

Actually, in the WRONG conditions: bone dry air.
Most air has a fair amount of humidity in it. Most respiratory viruses (including covid19) can remain intact indefinitely in such conditions.
gfm7175 wrote:
I suppose PoliticalForum would consider WebMD to be an "authoritative" and "reputable source" though?? Who knows... That forum has not defined what they mean by those terms within their fairly-recently-crafted Rule #16. They seem to be following the likes of Facebook , Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, etc. in such regard.

Bingo.
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
Where do you get your information?

Are you asking who I parrot? I do not parrot anybody. I have a mind of my own.

Keepit can't understand this concept.
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
Do you have any medical credentials?

Irrelevant, especially on an internet forum such as this one.

Bingo. No claim of any degree, license, experience, or any other credential means anything on a blind forum such as this one.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-01-2022 19:25
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
keepit wrote:
gfm,
That post was for itn.
Actually different viruses have different times regarding virulence.
Do you think you know more about medical science than WebMD?

Yes.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-01-2022 19:26
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
keepit wrote:
itn,
You don't actually think viruses grow on a mask?

No. Viruses aren't alive. Bacteria and fungi grow on a mask though.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 07-01-2022 19:26
07-01-2022 19:27
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
It does to me.
Discerning the reliability of the poster isn't really easy though.
07-01-2022 21:17
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21559)
keepit wrote:
It does to me.

Because you will spew anything that some idiot in government or a university says because they are 'experts'. Governments lie all the time. So do university professors.
keepit wrote:
Discerning the reliability of the poster isn't really easy though.

It is very easy for someone who knows an industry.

But you don't.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-01-2022 21:49
keepit
★★★★★
(3055)
??
07-01-2022 22:41
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
Into the Night wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
WebMD says that covid can remain active in dry air for up to 3 hours.

WebMD is full of shit. Viruses can remain intact well beyond that (several days is possible in the right conditions).

Actually, in the WRONG conditions: bone dry air.
Most air has a fair amount of humidity in it. Most respiratory viruses (including covid19) can remain intact indefinitely in such conditions.

Ahhhhhhhh, yeah the light bulb just went off. I expressed that ass backwards. Correction noted.
07-01-2022 22:44
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
keepit wrote:
gfm,
That post was for itn.

Even though you were responding directly to ITN, that post was actually for everybody because this is a public forum where everybody can participate as they see fit.

keepit wrote:
Actually different viruses have different times regarding virulence.
Do you think you know more about medical science than WebMD?

Absolutely.
Edited on 07-01-2022 22:49
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