Please, a Moment of Silence for Trafn

IBdaMann wrote:
It turns out the Dr. Robert Ben Mitchell (trafn) was suffering from severe depression when he was acting out here at Climate-Debate.

When he was not posting on Climate-Debate, he actually was making the world a better place.

Let's have a moment of silence for trafn.

Obituary

"In Loving Memory of Doctor Robert Ben Mitchell
October 31, 1958 - February 3, 2026
Robert was a brilliant, kind, and idealistic soul. He overcame a difficult childhood and chronic medical challenges to build a successful life as a doctor, author, and musician. In his early thirties, Robert graduated medical school and earned a Doctor of Osteopathy degree. He went on to practice in South Florida in the pain management and addiction treatment fields for three decades. He helped hundreds of patients in their struggle with addiction. In his spare time, Robert wrote and performed music. He self- produced an album entitled "Left Behind" and performed at open-mic nights at the Luna Star Café and other South Florida venues. He made his many songs available for free download online at bobwho.bandcamp.com. In 2018 Robert produced a short film, "Speechless," which chronicles the abuse he endured as a child. He also wrote a guide to recovery from childhood abuse, "Children of Pain" (both available at speechless.film). Throughout his life, Robert cared for numerous stray and rescue cats. Robert recently closed his medical practice due to chronic health issues. After a long struggle with depression, Robert took his own life on February 3, 2026. Please make donations in Robert's honor to the Wikimedia Foundation."

Im a BM wrote:It's never too late to give the guy a chance to "dox himself"!

Im a BM wrote: Did you ever figure out why ITN was so sure that it was MY house you posted a link to the photo of?

IBdaMann wrote:
It turns out the Dr. Robert Ben Mitchell (trafn) was suffering from severe depression when he was acting out here at Climate-Debate.

When he was not posting on Climate-Debate, he actually was making the world a better place.

Let's have a moment of silence for trafn.

Obituary

"In Loving Memory of Doctor Robert Ben Mitchell
October 31, 1958 - February 3, 2026
Robert was a brilliant, kind, and idealistic soul. He overcame a difficult childhood and chronic medical challenges to build a successful life as a doctor, author, and musician. In his early thirties, Robert graduated medical school and earned a Doctor of Osteopathy degree. He went on to practice in South Florida in the pain management and addiction treatment fields for three decades. He helped hundreds of patients in their struggle with addiction. In his spare time, Robert wrote and performed music. He self- produced an album entitled "Left Behind" and performed at open-mic nights at the Luna Star Café and other South Florida venues. He made his many songs available for free download online at bobwho.bandcamp.com. In 2018 Robert produced a short film, "Speechless," which chronicles the abuse he endured as a child. He also wrote a guide to recovery from childhood abuse, "Children of Pain" (both available at speechless.film). Throughout his life, Robert cared for numerous stray and rescue cats. Robert recently closed his medical practice due to chronic health issues. After a long struggle with depression, Robert took his own life on February 3, 2026. Please make donations in Robert's honor to the Wikimedia Foundation."

sealover wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:
It turns out the Dr. Robert Ben Mitchell (trafn) was suffering from severe depression when he was acting out here at Climate-Debate.

When he was not posting on Climate-Debate, he actually was making the world a better place.

Let's have a moment of silence for trafn.

Obituary

"In Loving Memory of Doctor Robert Ben Mitchell
October 31, 1958 - February 3, 2026
Robert was a brilliant, kind, and idealistic soul. He overcame a difficult childhood and chronic medical challenges to build a successful life as a doctor, author, and musician. In his early thirties, Robert graduated medical school and earned a Doctor of Osteopathy degree. He went on to practice in South Florida in the pain management and addiction treatment fields for three decades. He helped hundreds of patients in their struggle with addiction. In his spare time, Robert wrote and performed music. He self- produced an album entitled "Left Behind" and performed at open-mic nights at the Luna Star Café and other South Florida venues. He made his many songs available for free download online at bobwho.bandcamp.com. In 2018 Robert produced a short film, "Speechless," which chronicles the abuse he endured as a child. He also wrote a guide to recovery from childhood abuse, "Children of Pain" (both available at speechless.film). Throughout his life, Robert cared for numerous stray and rescue cats. Robert recently closed his medical practice due to chronic health issues. After a long struggle with depression, Robert took his own life on February 3, 2026. Please make donations in Robert's honor to the Wikimedia Foundation."

You made it clear how much respect you had for Trafn 10 years ago.

This is disingenuous and genuinely UGLY as a way to "dox" a former adversary.

However, I notice that you no longer wear a Trafn quote as a war medal in your signature line to mock him.

Into the Night wrote:

sealover wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:
It turns out the Dr. Robert Ben Mitchell (trafn) was suffering from severe depression when he was acting out here at Climate-Debate.

When he was not posting on Climate-Debate, he actually was making the world a better place.

Let's have a moment of silence for trafn.

Obituary

"In Loving Memory of Doctor Robert Ben Mitchell
October 31, 1958 - February 3, 2026
Robert was a brilliant, kind, and idealistic soul. He overcame a difficult childhood and chronic medical challenges to build a successful life as a doctor, author, and musician. In his early thirties, Robert graduated medical school and earned a Doctor of Osteopathy degree. He went on to practice in South Florida in the pain management and addiction treatment fields for three decades. He helped hundreds of patients in their struggle with addiction. In his spare time, Robert wrote and performed music. He self- produced an album entitled "Left Behind" and performed at open-mic nights at the Luna Star Café and other South Florida venues. He made his many songs available for free download online at bobwho.bandcamp.com. In 2018 Robert produced a short film, "Speechless," which chronicles the abuse he endured as a child. He also wrote a guide to recovery from childhood abuse, "Children of Pain" (both available at speechless.film). Throughout his life, Robert cared for numerous stray and rescue cats. Robert recently closed his medical practice due to chronic health issues. After a long struggle with depression, Robert took his own life on February 3, 2026. Please make donations in Robert's honor to the Wikimedia Foundation."

You made it clear how much respect you had for Trafn 10 years ago.

This is disingenuous and genuinely UGLY as a way to "dox" a former adversary.

However, I notice that you no longer wear a Trafn quote as a war medal in your signature line to mock him.

Trafn doxed himself just like you did, Robert. He made no secret of who he was.

Into the Night wrote:

sealover wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:
It turns out the Dr. Robert Ben Mitchell (trafn) was suffering from severe depression when he was acting out here at Climate-Debate.

When he was not posting on Climate-Debate, he actually was making the world a better place.

Let's have a moment of silence for trafn.

Obituary

"In Loving Memory of Doctor Robert Ben Mitchell
October 31, 1958 - February 3, 2026
Robert was a brilliant, kind, and idealistic soul. He overcame a difficult childhood and chronic medical challenges to build a successful life as a doctor, author, and musician. In his early thirties, Robert graduated medical school and earned a Doctor of Osteopathy degree. He went on to practice in South Florida in the pain management and addiction treatment fields for three decades. He helped hundreds of patients in their struggle with addiction. In his spare time, Robert wrote and performed music. He self- produced an album entitled "Left Behind" and performed at open-mic nights at the Luna Star Café and other South Florida venues. He made his many songs available for free download online at bobwho.bandcamp.com. In 2018 Robert produced a short film, "Speechless," which chronicles the abuse he endured as a child. He also wrote a guide to recovery from childhood abuse, "Children of Pain" (both available at speechless.film). Throughout his life, Robert cared for numerous stray and rescue cats. Robert recently closed his medical practice due to chronic health issues. After a long struggle with depression, Robert took his own life on February 3, 2026. Please make donations in Robert's honor to the Wikimedia Foundation."

You made it clear how much respect you had for Trafn 10 years ago.

This is disingenuous and genuinely UGLY as a way to "dox" a former adversary.

However, I notice that you no longer wear a Trafn quote as a war medal in your signature line to mock him.

Trafn doxed himself just like you did, Robert. He made no secret of who he was.

Im a BM wrote:
A Moment of Silence for Into the Night?

On May 26, 2026, there was a deadly explosion at a paper mill in Longview, Washington.

Into the Night made no secret of who he was, where he lived, or what kind of work he did.

There is a real possibility that Into the Night was killed or seriously injured in that paper mill explosion.

Into the Night is BY FAR the most prolific poster at this website.

Into the Night has not posted anything since the deadly explosion.

I do not wish such misfortune on ANYONE and I hope ITN is okay.

Into the Night wrote:Oh, some of the material did make it into the nearby Columbia river, where it was diluted into a very safe concentration of the stuff very quickly.

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:Oh, some of the material did make it into the nearby Columbia river, where it was diluted into a very safe concentration of the stuff very quickly.

So, it was adequately buffered?

Im a BM wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:Oh, some of the material did make it into the nearby Columbia river, where it was diluted into a very safe concentration of the stuff very quickly.

So, it was adequately buffered?

How do you know? Were you there?

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
A Moment of Silence for Into the Night?

On May 26, 2026, there was a deadly explosion at a paper mill in Longview, Washington.

Into the Night made no secret of who he was, where he lived, or what kind of work he did.

There is a real possibility that Into the Night was killed or seriously injured in that paper mill explosion.

Into the Night is BY FAR the most prolific poster at this website.

Into the Night has not posted anything since the deadly explosion.

I do not wish such misfortune on ANYONE and I hope ITN is okay.

I know it seriously disappoints you, Robert, but I'm still here.

The 'explosion' was a lot less than it was (typical press...overhyping everything!).

A white liquor tank (mounted on short stilts) had a stilt collapse and the tank crashed against the ground, causing a minor 'explosion' as the tank ruptured. This tank is quite large (about 5000 gallons) and contains a rather evil brew of caustic chemicals along with the liquor. Nearby cars in the parking lot were basically corroded to death.

A couple of workmen lost their lives due to being crushed by the debris. Another nine are missing somewhere in the complex.

Our idiot governor is calling it 'the worst industrial accident in the history of Washington'. He isn't even close.

These tanks are used to buffer extracted lignin before processing to remove the bleachant. After processing, the result is 'black' liquor, stored in another similar looking tank. That material is used as fuel for the entire plant.

Pulp and paper mills recycle quite a lot.

This one specializes in paper for containers (such as drink cups). This thicker paper is often mixed with a small amount of clay which helps to produce a smoother surface and make it somewhat waterproof. The rest of the waterproofing is done by the cup manufacturer itself (not this plant).

So...a somewhat spectacular looking failure, simply because the damaged tank is so large, but not nearly as bad as the press makes it out.

Oh, some of the material did make it into the nearby Columbia river, where it was diluted into a very safe concentration of the stuff very quickly.

It's a mess to clean up, and the plant is obviously shut down without this tank (expensive!), and a couple of nearby workman died, but it will all be fixed before the summer is out.

It's events like this is why I hate the press. They almost ALWAYS make it out much worse than it really is. Part of it is they have no idea what they are talking about, and most of it is because they are sensationalists...no better than gossipers...except they are paid to gossip.

IBdaMann wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:Oh, some of the material did make it into the nearby Columbia river, where it was diluted into a very safe concentration of the stuff very quickly.

So, it was adequately buffered?

How do you know? Were you there?

I have the advantage of adhering to the definitions, and in recognizing that water evaporates.

Im a BM wrote: YARP was wrong to call it "corrosive" to the cars in the parking lot (strong ACID is "corrosive" for material hazard classification).

Im a BM wrote: Lignin is a polyphenol

Im a BM wrote:... that is highly insoluble in acid, but soluble in highly corrosive bases.

Im a BM wrote: Then they get the lignin out by acidifying it like an ocean

Im a BM wrote: If lignin WERE a "carbohydrate",

Im a BM wrote: I'm an expert about how pH affects the solubility of various kinds of organic compounds.

Im a BM wrote: Protonation or deprotonation can make the difference between solute and precipitate.

Im a BM wrote: Acidic functional groups such as carboxylic and phenolic groups on tannins and lignin become insoluble when protonated. When deprotonated by high pH they can dissolve. Carbohydrates have no phenolic or carboxylic groups to protonate or deprotonate.

Lignin is NOT a carbohydrate, therefore it CAN be extracted by the Kraft method.

Cellulose IS a carbohydrate, and not subject to dissolution by deprotonation.

You can't get dissolved starch or sugar to precipitate out by adding acid either.

That only works on lignin and tannins.

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:Oh, some of the material did make it into the nearby Columbia river, where it was diluted into a very safe concentration of the stuff very quickly.

So, it was adequately buffered?

Im a BM wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:Oh, some of the material did make it into the nearby Columbia river, where it was diluted into a very safe concentration of the stuff very quickly.

So, it was adequately buffered?

How do you know? Were you there?

Spongy Iris wrote:
Any idea why the stilt collapsed?

Im a BM wrote:
As YARP (Yellow And Red Parrot) sort of explained, the "white liquor" used at paper mills is "caustic", with pH about 13-14. YARP was wrong to call it "corrosive" to the cars in the parking lot (strong ACID is "corrosive" for material hazard classification).

Im a BM wrote:
Why do they use so much "white liquor"?

Im a BM wrote:
As YARP (a.k.a. "Into the Night" or "ITN") sort of explained, lignin is extracted from the paper pulp so that only cellulose will remain for the final product.

Im a BM wrote:
Lignin is a polyphenol that is highly insoluble in acid, but soluble in high pH "liquor". When they use the "Kraft" method, they get the lignin out of the pulp and into the extremely high pH "black liquor". Then they get the lignin out by acidifying it, and the lignin precipitates out as solids.

Im a BM wrote:
If lignin WERE a "carbohydrate", such as cellulose, its pH-solubility characteristics would be comparable and they could not be separated by the Kraft extraction method.

Im a BM wrote:
I'm an expert about how pH affects the solubility of various kinds of organic compounds. Protonation or deprotonation can make the difference between solute and precipitate. Acidic functional groups such as carboxylic and phenolic groups on tannins and lignin become insoluble when protonated. When deprotonated by high pH they can dissolve. Carbohydrates have no phenolic or carboxylic groups to protonate or deprotonate.

Im a BM wrote:
Lignin is NOT a carbohydrate, therefore it CAN be extracted by the Kraft method.

Im a BM wrote:
Cellulose IS a carbohydrate, and not subject to dissolution by deprotonation.

Im a BM wrote:
You can't get dissolved starch or sugar to precipitate out by adding acid either.

Im a BM wrote:
That only works on lignin and tannins.

IBdaMann wrote:

Im a BM wrote: YARP was wrong to call it "corrosive" to the cars in the parking lot (strong ACID is "corrosive" for material hazard classification).

Strong bases are corrosive.

IBdaMann wrote:

Im a BM wrote: I'm an expert about how pH affects the solubility of various kinds of organic compounds.

Are you an expert on corrosiveness?

IBdaMann wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
That only works on lignin and tannins.

Good stuff, but you should have just said that acids can't dissolve lignin with their H⁺ protonation, but bases can with their corrosive OH⁻ deprotonation.

Into the Night wrote: So are acids and salts.

Into the Night wrote: Ask any auto mechanic about salt corrosion on cars up in the New England area.

Into the Night wrote: No, it's not good stuff. It's his usual kind of bullshit.

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote: So are acids and salts.

Of course. Robert was claiming that bases were not corrosive.

Into the Night wrote: Ask any auto mechanic about salt corrosion on cars up in the New England area.

No need. Salt ate my car when I lived in Panamá. I had never seen anything like it.

Into the Night wrote: No, it's not good stuff. It's his usual kind of bullshit.

I do give him credit for noting the difference between the corrosiveness of bases vs. the corrosiveness of acids. You mentioned it yourself when you specified that a base was needed to break down lignin because acids cannot. Acids are corrosive in different ways and to different things than bases. It's not simply a matter of a solution's distance from 7.0 This is also why life is acidic, and bases are so detrimental to organic matter. When the mob wants to dispose of a body, they dissolve it in lye (base) because lime juice (acid) isn't nearly as effective.

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote: So are acids and salts.

Of course. Robert was claiming that bases were not corrosive.

IBdaMann wrote:
[quote]Into the Night wrote: Ask any auto mechanic about salt corrosion on cars up in the New England area.

No need. Salt ate my car when I lived in Panamá. I had never seen anything like it.

IBdaMann wrote:
[quote]Into the Night wrote: No, it's not good stuff. It's his usual kind of bullshit.

I do give him credit for noting the difference between the corrosiveness of bases vs. the corrosiveness of acids. You mentioned it yourself when you specified that a base was needed to break down lignin because acids cannot. Acids are corrosive in different ways and to different things than bases. It's not simply a matter of a solution's distance from 7.0 This is also why life is acidic, and bases are so detrimental to organic matter. When the mob wants to dispose of a body, they dissolve it in lye (base) because lime juice (acid) isn't nearly as effective.

Im a BM wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote: So are acids and salts.

Of course. Robert was claiming that bases were not corrosive.

Into the Night wrote: Ask any auto mechanic about salt corrosion on cars up in the New England area.

No need. Salt ate my car when I lived in Panamá. I had never seen anything like it.

Into the Night wrote: No, it's not good stuff. It's his usual kind of bullshit.

I do give him credit for noting the difference between the corrosiveness of bases vs. the corrosiveness of acids. You mentioned it yourself when you specified that a base was needed to break down lignin because acids cannot. Acids are corrosive in different ways and to different things than bases. It's not simply a matter of a solution's distance from 7.0 This is also why life is acidic, and bases are so detrimental to organic matter. When the mob wants to dispose of a body, they dissolve it in lye (base) because lime juice (acid) isn't nearly as effective.

Quote from Google AI: "Lignin is insoluble in water and acidic conditions but dissolves readily in alkaline solutions (pH >10). The alkalinity deprotonates the phenolic hydroxyl groups in the lignin structure, creating negative charges that increase polarity and promote dissolution."

IBdaMann, you don't self identify as a "chemist", but I believe you are capable of grasping this. YARP (Yellow And Red Parrot) is not. He'll just insist there is no such thing as "deprotonates the phenolic hydroxyl group".

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote: So are acids and salts.

Of course. Robert was claiming that bases were not corrosive.

Into the Night wrote: Ask any auto mechanic about salt corrosion on cars up in the New England area.

No need. Salt ate my car when I lived in Panamá. I had never seen anything like it.

Into the Night wrote: No, it's not good stuff. It's his usual kind of bullshit.

I do give him credit for noting the difference between the corrosiveness of bases vs. the corrosiveness of acids. You mentioned it yourself when you specified that a base was needed to break down lignin because acids cannot. Acids are corrosive in different ways and to different things than bases. It's not simply a matter of a solution's distance from 7.0 This is also why life is acidic, and bases are so detrimental to organic matter. When the mob wants to dispose of a body, they dissolve it in lye (base) because lime juice (acid) isn't nearly as effective.

Quote from Google AI: "Lignin is insoluble in water and acidic conditions but dissolves readily in alkaline solutions (pH >10). The alkalinity deprotonates the phenolic hydroxyl groups in the lignin structure, creating negative charges that increase polarity and promote dissolution."

IBdaMann, you don't self identify as a "chemist", but I believe you are capable of grasping this. YARP (Yellow And Red Parrot) is not. He'll just insist there is no such thing as "deprotonates the phenolic hydroxyl group".

Science isn't Google.
Science isn't AI.
There is no such thing as 'deprotonates'.
Phenolic hydroxyl is not a chemical.

At least you finally figured out that lignin is not removed using an acid.

Im a BM wrote:
Actually, it was GOOGLE AI that said "deprotonates the phenolic hydroxyl group". That's a more awkward way than I prefer to say the same thing. Chemists know exactly what I'm talking about if I just say "deprotonates the phenol" or "deprotonates the phenolic group". It is redundant to say "phenolic hydroxyl", because they are the same functional group (-OH).

Im a BM wrote:
As people who actually STUDIED chemistry know, this refers to the FUNCTIONAL GROUP, the "phenolic hydroxyl group", and does not imply it is a "chemical".

Im a BM wrote:
The basic hydroxyl group, -OH, is an oxygen atom with a hydrogen stuck on one side of it. That oxygen atom forms a second bond on the other side with something else.

Im a BM wrote:
MANY other atoms or compounds might be attached to that -OH or "hydroxyl" group.

Im a BM wrote:
If it is a HYDROGEN ATOM attached to a hydroxyl group, that is H-OH. That would also be H2O, or hydrogen hydroxide. Call it hydric acid if you prefer, because water dissociates (a tiny bit) into hydroxide ion (OH-) and hydrogen ion (H+).

Im a BM wrote:
If it is a SODIUM ATOM attached to a hydroxyl group, that is Na-OH. This bond is almost entirely IONIC, with very little covalent character. Sodium hydroxide, NaOH, is a very strong base used to make "white liquour" for paper mills. That is what gives "white liquor" its extremely high pH of 13-14.

Im a BM wrote:
But what is a "phenolic hydroxyl group" that could "deprotonate", as Google suggests it does?

Im a BM wrote:
A "phenolic hydroxyl group" is a hydroxyl -OH group attached to a BENZENE RING. Six carbon atoms in an aromatic ring structure, with at least ONE hydroxyl group makes a phenol.

Im a BM wrote:
"Phenol" is also the name of a specific chemical, also known as carbolic acid.

Im a BM wrote:
"Phenols" as a class are ANY chemical that contains a benzene ring with a hydroxyl group on it. And there is room for up to six hydroxyl groups on a benzene ring.

Im a BM wrote:
Catechol, for example, is a DIHYDRIC phenol, with TWO phenolic hydroxyl groups attached to a benzene ring. Those two hydroxyl groups also happen to be in adjacent "ortho" position on the benzene ring, enabling catechol to behave as a complexing organic ligand that forms two adjacent bonds.

Im a BM wrote:
Yes, there IS such a thing as "deprotonates" in chemistry, and phenolic hydroxyl groups readily deprotonate at pH >10.

Im a BM wrote: He'll just insist there is no such thing as "deprotonates the phenolic hydroxyl group".

Im a BM wrote: Chemists know exactly what I'm talking about if I just say "deprotonates the phenol" or "deprotonates the phenolic group".

IBdaMann wrote:

Im a BM wrote: He'll just insist there is no such thing as "deprotonates the phenolic hydroxyl group".

He would be correct; you (and apparently Google AI) are using the term incorrectly. See below.

Im a BM wrote: Chemists know exactly what I'm talking about if I just say "deprotonates the phenol" or "deprotonates the phenolic group".

Chemists would note your error and probably correct you. "Protonate" and "Deprotonate" are reflexive verbs. Acids don't protonate bases; acids reflexively deprotonate. Similarly, bases don't deprotonate acids; bases simply protonate.

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:Oh, some of the material did make it into the nearby Columbia river, where it was diluted into a very safe concentration of the stuff very quickly.

So, it was adequately buffered?

How do you know? Were you there?

I was close enough. It was adequately buffered.

Im a BM wrote:
Other than myself, you have never communicated with a chemist to know that they don't waste time playing word games.

Im a BM wrote:
Technically, "protonate" or "deprotonate" might be "reflexive" according to the grammar police and word cops. Chemists just care what words MEAN in context, as understood by other chemists. It can butcher the grammar as long as it is understood.

Im a BM wrote:
IBdaMann, I remember clearly your resistance and insistence that the word "proton" could NOT be synonymous with "hydrogen ion".

Im a BM wrote:
YARP (Yellow And Red Parrot) is STILL unable to grasp the basic concept that in addition to being a subatomic particle accompanied by neutrons in the nucleus of EVERY element except "light" hydrogen, "protons" are ALSO hydrogen ions, referred to as H+ with the symbols.

Im a BM wrote:
But he might have to write a whole sentence to ever explain it again, so it is MY job to go through 24,000 posts and figure out where YARP ever defined pH.

Im a BM wrote:
So, IBdaMann makes authoritative claims about what "chemists" do.

How would HE know? I'm the only real chemist he ever communicated with.

Im a BM wrote:
IBdaMann has some wild ideas about chemistry, like the idea that EVAPORATION neutralizes acid or makes it disappear, and DILUTION is somehow equivalent to buffering and more than enough to keep sea water chemistry great for life.

Im a BM wrote:
Technically, "deprotonates" refers to what the acid does to itself. But it does it to itself in direct response to high pH. High pH made the acid deprotonate itself.

To say that it is "deprotonated", leaving the conjugate base as a separate anion. it kind of doesn't matter who did what to whom.

Im a BM wrote:
Like every other field of science, chemistry is NOT a word game.

Im a BM wrote:
Winning at word games will never get your chemistry discoveries published.

Im a BM wrote:
YARP has NEVER offered a definition for what "buffered" means.

Im a BM wrote:
Seems to imply that the RIVER water was adequately "buffered" against the extreme HIGH pH of the "white liquor".

Im a BM wrote:
According to what actual CHEMISTS taught me the definition of pH buffering is, that would mean there were weak acids in the river water that only dissociated when all those hydroxide ions came in.

Im a BM wrote:
When weak acids deprotonate THEMSELVES (it's "reflexive"), that proton they shuck off combines with hydroxide to make water. But they just can't muster the gumption to deprotonate THEMSELVES (reflexively) unless there is relatively HIGH concentration of (OH-) around. That threshold concentration of (OH-) and the pH that corresponds to it can be calculated if you know the pKa of the acid.

Im a BM wrote:
Just ask YARP! He's a "chemist"!

Im a BM wrote:
Ask YARP which conjugate bases or weak acids in the river provide the "buffering".

Or is pH "buffering" just a matter of dilution into a large enough volume of H2O?

Im a BM wrote:
NO, it is NOT!

At least he didn't invoke EVAPORATION!

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
A Moment of Silence for Into the Night?

On May 26, 2026, there was a deadly explosion at a paper mill in Longview, Washington.

Into the Night made no secret of who he was, where he lived, or what kind of work he did.

There is a real possibility that Into the Night was killed or seriously injured in that paper mill explosion.

Into the Night is BY FAR the most prolific poster at this website.

Into the Night has not posted anything since the deadly explosion.

I do not wish such misfortune on ANYONE and I hope ITN is okay.

I know it seriously disappoints you, Robert, but I'm still here.

The 'explosion' was a lot less than it was (typical press...overhyping everything!).

A white liquor tank (mounted on short stilts) had a stilt collapse and the tank crashed against the ground, causing a minor 'explosion' as the tank ruptured. This tank is quite large (about 5000 gallons) and contains a rather evil brew of caustic chemicals along with the liquor. Nearby cars in the parking lot were basically corroded to death.

A couple of workmen lost their lives due to being crushed by the debris. Another nine are missing somewhere in the complex.

Our idiot governor is calling it 'the worst industrial accident in the history of Washington'. He isn't even close.

These tanks are used to buffer extracted lignin before processing to remove the bleachant. After processing, the result is 'black' liquor, stored in another similar looking tank. That material is used as fuel for the entire plant.

Pulp and paper mills recycle quite a lot.

This one specializes in paper for containers (such as drink cups). This thicker paper is often mixed with a small amount of clay which helps to produce a smoother surface and make it somewhat waterproof. The rest of the waterproofing is done by the cup manufacturer itself (not this plant).

So...a somewhat spectacular looking failure, simply because the damaged tank is so large, but not nearly as bad as the press makes it out.

Oh, some of the material did make it into the nearby Columbia river, where it was diluted into a very safe concentration of the stuff very quickly.

It's a mess to clean up, and the plant is obviously shut down without this tank (expensive!), and a couple of nearby workman died, but it will all be fixed before the summer is out.

It's events like this is why I hate the press. They almost ALWAYS make it out much worse than it really is. Part of it is they have no idea what they are talking about, and most of it is because they are sensationalists...no better than gossipers...except they are paid to gossip.

Im a BM wrote:
DEFINE YOUR TERMS!

That's okay, I'll do it for you.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
The "white liquor" in the tank was the fresh, highly alkaline solution they feed into the process to dissolve lignin from wood chips. Usually it is sodium hydroxide, NaOH, at pH 13-14, but it can be done with potassium hydroxide, KOH, also at pH 13-14. "White liquor" also contains sodium sulfide, Na2S.

Im a BM wrote:
Described as an "evil brew of caustic chemicals", the "white liquor" is what spilled and was involved in the death and injuries accident.

Im a BM wrote:
The "black liquor" NOT involved in the accident is what you get from the "white liquor" extraction. Black liquor contains the lignin extracted from the wood chips, as well as the caustic sodium hydroxide, NaOH and sodium sulfide, Na2S.

Im a BM wrote:
Sodium sulfide, Na2S acts as a chemical reducing agent (reductant), getting oxidized as it reduces carbonyl groups linking lignin to cellulose. "Lignocellulose" is not a "buzzword", but what chemists call the complexes formed between lignin and cellulose. Na2S is the reductant they use to break the bonds that hold the lignin and cellulose together.

Im a BM wrote:
Sodium hydroxide, or potassium hydroxide preferred by some for the process, brings about DEPROTONATION of phenolic hydroxyl groups on the lignin, making it soluble. Lignin is a polyphenol, unlike the carbohydrate cellulose it is linked to. Carbohydrates have no phenolic hydroxyl groups that can deprotonate at high pH. Cellulose remains insoluble when the "white liquor" brings pH to >10. Lignin become soluble at this high pH and gets extracted into "black liquor".

Im a BM wrote:
The Kraft process works to separate lignin from cellulose because lignin is a POLYPHENOL (not a carbohydrate), subject to deprotonation of phenolic hydroxyl groups at pH >10. Just like Google and I agree to be the Gospel Truth!

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
DEFINE YOUR TERMS!

That's okay, I'll do it for you.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
The "white liquor" in the tank was the fresh, highly alkaline solution they feed into the process to dissolve lignin from wood chips. Usually it is sodium hydroxide, NaOH, at pH 13-14, but it can be done with potassium hydroxide, KOH, also at pH 13-14. "White liquor" also contains sodium sulfide, Na2S.

Nope. That is not white liquor. Chemicals are added directly to the process at various stages.
Sodium hydroxide is not used in pulp mills.
Potassium hydroxide is not used in pulp mills.
Sodium sulfide is not used in pulp mills.

Im a BM wrote:
Described as an "evil brew of caustic chemicals", the "white liquor" is what spilled and was involved in the death and injuries accident.

Two deaths. A few destroyed cars. An expensive accident that took the plant off line for months.

Im a BM wrote:
The "black liquor" NOT involved in the accident is what you get from the "white liquor" extraction. Black liquor contains the lignin extracted from the wood chips, as well as the caustic sodium hydroxide, NaOH and sodium sulfide, Na2S.

White liquor is not extraction.
Sodium hydroxide is not used in pulp mills.
Sodium sulfide is not used in pulp mills.

Im a BM wrote:
Sodium sulfide, Na2S acts as a chemical reducing agent (reductant), getting oxidized as it reduces carbonyl groups linking lignin to cellulose. "Lignocellulose" is not a "buzzword", but what chemists call the complexes formed between lignin and cellulose. Na2S is the reductant they use to break the bonds that hold the lignin and cellulose together.

Lignin is a carbohydrate.
Sodium sulfide is not used in pulp mills.

Im a BM wrote:
Sodium hydroxide, or potassium hydroxide preferred by some for the process, brings about DEPROTONATION of phenolic hydroxyl groups on the lignin, making it soluble. Lignin is a polyphenol, unlike the carbohydrate cellulose it is linked to. Carbohydrates have no phenolic hydroxyl groups that can deprotonate at high pH. Cellulose remains insoluble when the "white liquor" brings pH to >10. Lignin become soluble at this high pH and gets extracted into "black liquor".

There is no such thing as 'deprotonation'.
Phenolic hydroxyl is not a chemical.
Polyphenol is not a chemical.
Carbohydrate is not a chemical.
Potassium hydroxide is not used in pulp mills.

Im a BM wrote:
The Kraft process works to separate lignin from cellulose because lignin is a POLYPHENOL (not a carbohydrate), subject to deprotonation of phenolic hydroxyl groups at pH >10. Just like Google and I agree to be the Gospel Truth!

You are not Google.
Polyphenol is not a chemical.
Carbohydrate is not a chemical.
Phenolic hydroyl is not a chemical.
There is no such thing as deprotonation.

You obviously know zero about pulp mills.

Im a BM wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Im a BM wrote: He'll just insist there is no such thing as "deprotonates the phenolic hydroxyl group".

He would be correct; you (and apparently Google AI) are using the term incorrectly. See below.

Im a BM wrote: Chemists know exactly what I'm talking about if I just say "deprotonates the phenol" or "deprotonates the phenolic group".

Chemists would note your error and probably correct you. "Protonate" and "Deprotonate" are reflexive verbs. Acids don't protonate bases; acids reflexively deprotonate. Similarly, bases don't deprotonate acids; bases simply protonate.

Technically, "protonate" or "deprotonate" might be "reflexive" according to the grammar police and word cops. Chemists just care what words MEAN in context, as understood by other chemists.

Im a BM wrote: IBdaMann, I remember clearly your resistance and insistence that the word "proton" could NOT be synonymous with "hydrogen ion".

Im a BM wrote:Perhaps because IBdaMann knows how to do basic math, and YARP does not.

On 07-09-2019 12:57, Into the Night wrote:Repetitious questions that have already been answered.

On 21-09-2019 14:15, Into the Night wrote:
Repetitious questions already answered. (RQAA)

On 06-10-2019 16:25, Into the Night wrote:I have already told him this. He repetitiously asks the same questions, even though they've been answered (the RQAA), and he repetitiously uses undefined and contrived 'models' to prove the Stefan-Boltzmann law and 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics are wrong, and thus calls me and IBdaMann frauds for using them (the RDCF, or repetitious distortions and contextomy fallacies).

Im a BM wrote:One of those 24,000 posts by YARP explained, apparently, WHY YARP insists that pH CANNOT be below zero, and that pH is actually a "ratio".

Im a BM wrote:So, IBdaMann makes authoritative claims about what "chemists" do.

Im a BM wrote: How would HE know? I'm the only real chemist he ever communicated with.

Im a BM wrote: IBdaMann has some wild ideas about chemistry, like the idea that EVAPORATION neutralizes acid or makes it disappear,

Im a BM wrote: and DILUTION is somehow equivalent to buffering

Im a BM wrote:Technically, "deprotonates" refers to what the acid does to itself.

Im a BM wrote:But it does it to itself in direct response to high pH. High pH made the acid deprotonate itself.

Im a BM wrote:To say that it is "deprotonated", leaving the conjugate base as a separate anion. it kind of doesn't matter who did what to whom.

Im a BM wrote: Like every other field of science, chemistry is NOT a word game.

Im a BM wrote:Winning at word games will never get your chemistry discoveries published.

IBdaMann wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Im a BM wrote: He'll just insist there is no such thing as "deprotonates the phenolic hydroxyl group".

He would be correct; you (and apparently Google AI) are using the term incorrectly. See below.

Im a BM wrote: Chemists know exactly what I'm talking about if I just say "deprotonates the phenol" or "deprotonates the phenolic group".

Chemists would note your error and probably correct you. "Protonate" and "Deprotonate" are reflexive verbs. Acids don't protonate bases; acids reflexively deprotonate. Similarly, bases don't deprotonate acids; bases simply protonate.

Technically, "protonate" or "deprotonate" might be "reflexive" according to the grammar police and word cops. Chemists just care what words MEAN in context, as understood by other chemists.

Chemists aren't word cops; they would simply correct your error. You used the term in a way that implies you don't know the terms. If you were to get this defensive, chemists would know that you are not one of them, regardless of their inclination to help you or to teach you.

Im a BM wrote: IBdaMann, I remember clearly your resistance and insistence that the word "proton" could NOT be synonymous with "hydrogen ion".

You do not remember very well. My complaint is the term "hydrogen ion" when one should just use the word "proton." Chemists aren't the sharpest tacks in the box when it comes to wording and terminology.

Im a BM wrote:Perhaps because IBdaMann knows how to do basic math, and YARP does not.

Dial it back. I remain the top TROLL; don't ever forget this. Remember the stench. Nobody else has the stench.

But YARP'S bluff is absolutely CONVINCING as he swears that at some time in the past he actually DID display this basic knowledge right here at this website, and SOMEWHERE among his 24,000 posts the "RQAA" can be found.

On 07-09-2019 12:57, Into the Night wrote:Repetitious questions that have already been answered.

On 21-09-2019 14:15, Into the Night wrote:
Repetitious questions already answered. (RQAA)

On 06-10-2019 16:25, Into the Night wrote:I have already told him this. He repetitiously asks the same questions, even though they've been answered (the RQAA), and he repetitiously uses undefined and contrived 'models' to prove the Stefan-Boltzmann law and 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics are wrong, and thus calls me and IBdaMann frauds for using them (the RDCF, or repetitious distortions and contextomy fallacies).

Im a BM wrote:One of those 24,000 posts by YARP explained, apparently, WHY YARP insists that pH CANNOT be below zero, and that pH is actually a "ratio".

pH is the negative logarithm of a concentration ratio, specifically effective / standard. The logarithm doesn't negate the ratio.

Im a BM wrote:So, IBdaMann makes authoritative claims about what "chemists" do.

I make claims about what scientists do. I admit that sometimes chemists make me wonder if they are scientists because they often lack the big picture into which they should integrate their work, i.e. they tend to work in their own little bubbles, thinking that their area of study is an island.

Im a BM wrote: How would HE know? I'm the only real chemist he ever communicated with.

I wouldn't go so far as to call you a chemist; chemists understand that water evaporates. You also have no grasp of thermodynamics which, admittedly, is typically not a chemist's most urgent concern (although it should be), but is nonetheless a requirement for chemistry as well.

Im a BM wrote: IBdaMann has some wild ideas about chemistry, like the idea that EVAPORATION neutralizes acid or makes it disappear,

It's not a wild idea to understand that water does, in fact, evaporate and that when it does, gases trapped in the water are released. I am aware that belief in water evaporation is sinful in your fundamentalist religion, but you can't claim to be a chemist on the one hand, and then profess on the other hand that your religion teaches that chemistry can't happen.

Im a BM wrote: and DILUTION is somehow equivalent to buffering

A chemist would understand that meeting a definition is not equivalent to the definition. One would ask you if you ever even went to school.

Im a BM wrote:Technically, "deprotonates" refers to what the acid does to itself.

That word "technically" is an admission that what you wrote earlier is erroneous, but that you have since had time to go look it up. It's what happens to the acid, not what the acid does to anything.

Im a BM wrote:But it does it to itself in direct response to high pH. High pH made the acid deprotonate itself.

What you just expressed is what the high pH does to acid, not what the acid does to itself.

Im a BM wrote:To say that it is "deprotonated", leaving the conjugate base as a separate anion. it kind of doesn't matter who did what to whom.

Incorrect. In science, the utmost concern is what cause has what effect.

Im a BM wrote: Like every other field of science, chemistry is NOT a word game.

Have you noticed that you are the only one who insists on incorrect wording and avoiding unambiguous definitions?

Im a BM wrote:Winning at word games will never get your chemistry discoveries published.

Is this why it is not possible to find any chemistry discoveries published by Robert R. Northup?

Im a BM wrote:
Wouldn't you be better off posting on a website that caters to scientifically illiterate trolls, and where they just love arrogant, malignant narcissists?

Im a BM wrote:
...deleted sex stories...

Im a BM wrote:
They got bored when Google stopped directing new prey for them to gang rape in a "Define your terms!" ambush.

Im a BM wrote:
Only YARP is dense enough to think its any fun to continue here.

Im a BM wrote:
...deleted sex stories...
You couldn't even make a good "Ignoramus" to debate about climate. You aren't familiar enough with the actual science to know how to pitch the slick propaganda of the science denial folks. They are WAY ahead of you.

Im a BM wrote:
And your "define your terms" game doesn't really work anywhere else, does it?

Im a BM wrote:
There MUST be a place for you where you are given all the respect you deserve.

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
DEFINE YOUR TERMS!

That's okay, I'll do it for you.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
The "white liquor" in the tank was the fresh, highly alkaline solution they feed into the process to dissolve lignin from wood chips. Usually it is sodium hydroxide, NaOH, at pH 13-14, but it can be done with potassium hydroxide, KOH, also at pH 13-14. "White liquor" also contains sodium sulfide, Na2S.

Nope. That is not white liquor. Chemicals are added directly to the process at various stages.
Sodium hydroxide is not used in pulp mills.
Potassium hydroxide is not used in pulp mills.
Sodium sulfide is not used in pulp mills.

Im a BM wrote:
Described as an "evil brew of caustic chemicals", the "white liquor" is what spilled and was involved in the death and injuries accident.

Two deaths. A few destroyed cars. An expensive accident that took the plant off line for months.

Im a BM wrote:
The "black liquor" NOT involved in the accident is what you get from the "white liquor" extraction. Black liquor contains the lignin extracted from the wood chips, as well as the caustic sodium hydroxide, NaOH and sodium sulfide, Na2S.

White liquor is not extraction.
Sodium hydroxide is not used in pulp mills.
Sodium sulfide is not used in pulp mills.

Im a BM wrote:
Sodium sulfide, Na2S acts as a chemical reducing agent (reductant), getting oxidized as it reduces carbonyl groups linking lignin to cellulose. "Lignocellulose" is not a "buzzword", but what chemists call the complexes formed between lignin and cellulose. Na2S is the reductant they use to break the bonds that hold the lignin and cellulose together.

Lignin is a carbohydrate.
Sodium sulfide is not used in pulp mills.

Im a BM wrote:
Sodium hydroxide, or potassium hydroxide preferred by some for the process, brings about DEPROTONATION of phenolic hydroxyl groups on the lignin, making it soluble. Lignin is a polyphenol, unlike the carbohydrate cellulose it is linked to. Carbohydrates have no phenolic hydroxyl groups that can deprotonate at high pH. Cellulose remains insoluble when the "white liquor" brings pH to >10. Lignin become soluble at this high pH and gets extracted into "black liquor".

There is no such thing as 'deprotonation'.
Phenolic hydroxyl is not a chemical.
Polyphenol is not a chemical.
Carbohydrate is not a chemical.
Potassium hydroxide is not used in pulp mills.

Im a BM wrote:
The Kraft process works to separate lignin from cellulose because lignin is a POLYPHENOL (not a carbohydrate), subject to deprotonation of phenolic hydroxyl groups at pH >10. Just like Google and I agree to be the Gospel Truth!

You are not Google.
Polyphenol is not a chemical.
Carbohydrate is not a chemical.
Phenolic hydroyl is not a chemical.
There is no such thing as deprotonation.

You obviously know zero about pulp mills.

Im a BM wrote:
"There is no such thing as deprotonation." YARP (Yellow And Red Parrot)

Paper mill tragedy update: Residents report "rotten egg" smell.

Well, they certainly do NOT use sodium hydroxide at paper mills, that YARP is aware of. Nor is there any sodium sulfide, Na2S in the "caustic brew" that is "white liquor". Right, YARP?

That rotten egg smell is sulfides in the air. Typically H2S, hydrogen sulfide, but other volatile sulfides also smell of rotten egg.

Im a BM wrote:
Obviously, the sodium sulfide itself is the major source of rotten egg smell where the "white liquor" spilled out.

Most often, such odors arise under anaerobic conditions due to microbial sulfate reduction. Sulfate reducing bacteria can use sulfate as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon for metabolic energy under low oxygen conditions. One of the products is hydrogen sulfide, H2S.

Im a BM wrote:
Fun fact: Cheap Chinese drywall can make a home stink of rotten eggs.

Drywall contains gypsum, calcium sulfate, CaSO3. Cheap Chinese drywall also contains a lot of cellulose "filler". Unlike lignin, cellulose is a carbohydrate that many microorganisms use as a source of energy. So, when cheap Chinese drywall got wet and waterlogged (low O2), sulfate reducing bacteria colonized the food source. They didn't need no stinkin' oxygen to get energy from the cellulose in the drywall. They used sulfate from the gypsum as their oxidant.

Im a BM wrote:
Google knows SO MUCH MORE than YARP (Yellow And Red Parrot)

Google, "Is sodium hydroxide used in paper mills?"

Google say: "Yes, sodium hydroxide (often called caustic soda or lye) is one of the most critical and widely used chemicals in paper mills. It is primarily used during the pulping,
bleaching, and paper-recycling stages."

Im a BM wrote:
When Google and I agree about chemistry, it is because we are both correct.

Im a BM wrote:
Google and YARP seem to be working from very different chemistry textbooks.

Im a BM wrote:
YARP won't say exactly what "white liquour" IS,

Im a BM wrote:
other than a caustic brew. Made no mention of its sulfide content. They use sodium sulfide, Na2S, but it works just as well with potassium sulfide. Calcium polysulfide is the preferred reductant for hexavalent chromium mitigation, exploiting the power of sulfide to act as a chemical reductant. Sulfide can reduce the carbonyl groups that bind lignin to cellulose, and it can reduce hexavalent chromium Cr(6+) to the benign trivalent chromium Cr(3+).[quote]
Sulfide is not a chemical.
Sodium sulfide is not used in a pulp mill.
Potassium sulfide is not used in a pulp mill.
There is no such thing as 'reductant for hexavalent'.
There is no such thing as 'chromium mitigation'.
Sulfur is not carbon.
Carbonyl is not a chemical.
Chromium is not used in a pulp mill.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
And YARP just INSISTS they use no sodium hydroxide in paper mills.[quote]
Because they don't.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
I'm beginning to suspect he may be a "scientifically illiterate moron".

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
"There is no such thing as deprotonation." YARP (Yellow And Red Parrot)

Paper mill tragedy update: Residents report "rotten egg" smell.

Well, they certainly do NOT use sodium hydroxide at paper mills, that YARP is aware of. Nor is there any sodium sulfide, Na2S in the "caustic brew" that is "white liquor". Right, YARP?

That rotten egg smell is sulfides in the air. Typically H2S, hydrogen sulfide, but other volatile sulfides also smell of rotten egg.

Still trying to pretend you know how a pulp mill works, eh?
Sodium hydroxide is not sodium sulfide.
Sodium hydroxide is not hydrogen sulfide.
Sodium sulfide is not hydrogen sulfide.
Sulfide is not a chemical.

Im a BM wrote:
Obviously, the sodium sulfide itself is the major source of rotten egg smell where the "white liquor" spilled out.

Most often, such odors arise under anaerobic conditions due to microbial sulfate reduction. Sulfate reducing bacteria can use sulfate as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon for metabolic energy under low oxygen conditions. One of the products is hydrogen sulfide, H2S.

Pulp mills do not use bacteria.
There is no such thing as a 'terminal electron acceptor'.
Sulfate is not a chemical.
Carbon is not organic.

Im a BM wrote:
Fun fact: Cheap Chinese drywall can make a home stink of rotten eggs.

Drywall contains gypsum, calcium sulfate, CaSO3. Cheap Chinese drywall also contains a lot of cellulose "filler". Unlike lignin, cellulose is a carbohydrate that many microorganisms use as a source of energy. So, when cheap Chinese drywall got wet and waterlogged (low O2), sulfate reducing bacteria colonized the food source. They didn't need no stinkin' oxygen to get energy from the cellulose in the drywall. They used sulfate from the gypsum as their oxidant.

All drywall contains cellulose. Looks like you know nothing about drywall either.
Sulfate is not a chemical.
Waterlogged drywall dissolves.
Drywall that remains wet develops all kinds of mold. Put on your PPE to remove it!

Im a BM wrote:
Google knows SO MUCH MORE than YARP (Yellow And Red Parrot)

Google, "Is sodium hydroxide used in paper mills?"

Google say: "Yes, sodium hydroxide (often called caustic soda or lye) is one of the most critical and widely used chemicals in paper mills. It is primarily used during the pulping,
bleaching, and paper-recycling stages."

You are not Google.
Sodium hydroxide is not used in paper mills.

Im a BM wrote:
When Google and I agree about chemistry, it is because we are both correct.

You are not Google.
Google is not chemistry.
You deny chemistry and science.

Im a BM wrote:
Google and YARP seem to be working from very different chemistry textbooks.

Chemistry is not a book.
You are not Google.
Google is not God.

Im a BM wrote:
YARP won't say exactly what "white liquour" IS,

RQAA

Im a BM wrote:
other than a caustic brew. Made no mention of its sulfide content. They use sodium sulfide, Na2S, but it works just as well with potassium sulfide. Calcium polysulfide is the preferred reductant for hexavalent chromium mitigation, exploiting the power of sulfide to act as a chemical reductant. Sulfide can reduce the carbonyl groups that bind lignin to cellulose, and it can reduce hexavalent chromium Cr(6+) to the benign trivalent chromium Cr(3+).[quote]
Sulfide is not a chemical.
Sodium sulfide is not used in a pulp mill.
Potassium sulfide is not used in a pulp mill.
There is no such thing as 'reductant for hexavalent'.
There is no such thing as 'chromium mitigation'.
Sulfur is not carbon.
Carbonyl is not a chemical.
Chromium is not used in a pulp mill.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
And YARP just INSISTS they use no sodium hydroxide in paper mills.[quote]
Because they don't.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
I'm beginning to suspect he may be a "scientifically illiterate moron".

Inversion fallacy. You also illiterate in engineering, mathematics, logic, chemistry, and philosophy.

You are no chemist.
You are no scientist.