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paramedics05-04-2020 04:11
keepit
★★★★☆
(1381)
25% of New York City paramedics are out sick. This might not mean too much to some but it is very telling. Having been a paramedic i know paramedics. They don't have very many preexisting diseases and they don't back down from danger.
The reason that they are out sick isn't because they have a cold as some here would say. And they aren't taking a few days off because times are tough.
What this tells you is that covid is highly contagious and that they have caught it in the line of duty. It also tells you that they aren't out sick because of preexisting diseases.
No need to call this pandemic a cold and no need to blame it on other diseases. Get real. At this rate there could be 100,000 deaths within a month or so.
05-04-2020 19:56
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1946)
If they have Covid-19, or suspect they might have it (waiting on test results), they would be required to stay home. If they have family, they suspect have it, or been exposed, they would likely be required to stay home, as well. There is always a certain percentage of an workforce, that will call off sick, just to get some time off. I don't think 25% is that telling, considering that most of their over-time work, is checking on people, with a runny nose, afraid they might have this plague. Basically, a lot of the 911 calls they get are nothing, or nothing they can do, except suggest they get tested, if available. The 25% could also reflect that it's not as bad as being hyped, just the only way for them to get a few days off.
06-04-2020 04:37
keepit
★★★★☆
(1381)
Harvey,
The situation is getting way too serious to be chip[ping nonsense back and forth.
06-04-2020 11:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12381)
keepit wrote:
25% of New York City paramedics are out sick. This might not mean too much to some but it is very telling. Having been a paramedic i know paramedics. They don't have very many preexisting diseases and they don't back down from danger.
The reason that they are out sick isn't because they have a cold as some here would say. And they aren't taking a few days off because times are tough.
What this tells you is that covid is highly contagious and that they have caught it in the line of duty. It also tells you that they aren't out sick because of preexisting diseases.
No need to call this pandemic a cold and no need to blame it on other diseases. Get real. At this rate there could be 100,000 deaths within a month or so.


Fear mongering again. This time by making up numbers.


The Parrot Killer
06-04-2020 11:30
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12381)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
The situation is getting way too serious to be chip[ping nonsense back and forth.


Nope. This flu is infecting far less people and killing far less people than most other flu.


The Parrot Killer
06-04-2020 11:46
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1946)
I'm just not seeing it here in Florida. Considering all the tourism, both domestic, and international. All the New Yorkers, who brought their kids down to stay with grandma and grandpa. We really don't seem to be getting hit as bad, as many states. I'm still working, with over a thousand employees, and no rumors of infected people. My county isn't really a hotspot though, mostly Orange (Disney), and the beach counties are bad.

I am pretty sure this is just a new addition to are seasonal cold and flu, which includes a lot of different strains, from many different families of viruses. We grow up getting exposed, infected, and gain immunity. It's just part of life. The people hospitalize, are still the same people, who are often hospitalized during the cold and flu season. It's a little different, since this is the first season, so nobody has gain immunity earlier in their lives.

I think it's a mistake not letting healthy people go about their normal activities, and getting infected, like they normally would during cold and flu season. Considering that only a fraction of the 350 million people will get infected/immune this season, we can only look forward to doing this again in the fall. People at risk for serious complication, from a common respiratory infection, should be taking extra precautions anyway, specially during cold and flu season. Would have been easier to isolate and protect those people, rather than the entire 350 million. A vaccine, widely available, isn't going to be ready, until next year, at best. Won't know how effective it will be, until we try it. The trials only determine whether it works, it's safe, and the need dose. Won't know how well it works, until it's used on the general population. I don't intend on getting the shot, voluntarily. I don't do flu shots either. No health issues, and never had a problem getting over a cold. Haven't had the flu, in a very long time.
06-04-2020 12:12
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2922)
Into the Night wrote:
Fear mongering again. This time by making up numbers.
Still pretending this is a virus that is what did you say?:

Into the Night wrote:
The virus isn't spreading....The virus does not kill the elderly if they are healthy....
tmiddles wrote:
"A spokesman for Spectaris, the German industry federation that represents medical devices makers, said: "At the moment there are sufficient supplies of everything. What is important is to keep the number of new infections low. Otherwise we could see shortages.""

Void argument. What 'medical devices'? You actually don't need ANY 'medical devices' to recover from the flu....
link, Said on March 13th
IBdaMann wrote:This flu is much weaker than those of previous flu seasons.
link

Now of course you and IBD had absolutely nothing to back up your wild claims.

Trump usually doesn't either. The declarations that this is a hoax, the denial of professional's advice, it all mirrors what you see in environmental and climate issues. With a similar track record of clown like incompetence on the part of deniers.

This all ties in perfectly with the major topics of the board. The denial of science and doubling down on nonsense by partisans like you.

Anyway the purpose of my post is for you Keepit. I really like this site for monitoring the numbers. There are some nice bell curves forming in Italy and Spain.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/



It's a nice site to cut through to the numbers each day if you don't like skimming news articles.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
06-04-2020 13:49
keepit
★★★★☆
(1381)
Tmid,
The thing is, the numbers, whether they are going up or going down, are the result of how much isolation there is and how effective it is. There's no evidence that i've heard that says it is seasonal at this point.
We went from 1 to 10,000 in just over a month and the next two weeks are expected to be much worse. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to speculate on the the numbers for next month.
It's too bad there wasn't more "fear mongering" early on. If there was, there would have been more and earlier isolation.
The situation is bad. I'm hoping for a treatment. Not so sure about a vaccine.
Hopefully the isolation will continue to work to keep the numbers down.
Edited on 06-04-2020 14:02
06-04-2020 19:23
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12381)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Fear mongering again. This time by making up numbers.
Still pretending this is a virus that is what did you say?

It is a virus. It's a flu.
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
The virus isn't spreading....The virus does not kill the elderly if they are healthy....
tmiddles wrote:
"A spokesman for Spectaris, the German industry federation that represents medical devices makers, said: "At the moment there are sufficient supplies of everything. What is important is to keep the number of new infections low. Otherwise we could see shortages.""

Void argument. What 'medical devices'? You actually don't need ANY 'medical devices' to recover from the flu....
link, Said on March 13th
IBdaMann wrote:This flu is much weaker than those of previous flu seasons.
link

Now of course you and IBD had absolutely nothing to back up your wild claims.

The CDC data, and the world data, which you so nicely quoted here.
tmiddles wrote:
Trump usually doesn't either. The declarations that this is a hoax,

The fear mongering by people you, by the news media, and by the UN is a hoax.
tmiddles wrote:
the denial of professional's advice,

You now deny the data you are quoting???
tmiddles wrote:
...deleted TMSb4...
[quote]tmiddles wrote:
Anyway the purpose of my post is for you Keepit.

Lie.
tmiddles wrote:
I really like this site for monitoring the numbers. There are some nice bell curves forming in Italy and Spain.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/



It's a nice site to cut through to the numbers each day if you don't like skimming news articles.

In the U.S. too. The infection rate is going down. The death rate will soon follow.


The Parrot Killer
06-04-2020 19:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12381)
keepit wrote:
Tmid,
The thing is, the numbers, whether they are going up or going down, are the result of how much isolation there is and how effective it is. There's no evidence that i've heard that says it is seasonal at this point.

You are looking at them.
keepit wrote:
We went from 1 to 10,000 in just over a month and the next two weeks are expected to be much worse. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to speculate on the the numbers for next month.

Fear mongering.
keepit wrote:
It's too bad there wasn't more "fear mongering" early on. If there was, there would have been more and earlier isolation.

Isolation isn't doing much of anything.
keepit wrote:
The situation is bad.

Fear mongering.
keepit wrote:
I'm hoping for a treatment.

There already is one.
keepit wrote:
Not so sure about a vaccine.

The infection rate is already going down. The death rate will soon follow. All without a vaccine.
keepit wrote:
Hopefully the isolation will continue to work to keep the numbers down.

Isolation is not doing anything to stop the virus, as you have already stated right here in your post.


The Parrot Killer
06-04-2020 20:22
keepit
★★★★☆
(1381)
Virologists say that the corona virus is a different kind of virus with a very much different structure. Take a look at a picture of the two kinds of virus. They don't look anywhere near the same.
The virologists aren't lying and you are full of bull.
06-04-2020 20:37
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12381)
keepit wrote:
Virologists say that the corona virus is a different kind of virus with a very much different structure. Take a look at a picture of the two kinds of virus. They don't look anywhere near the same.
The virologists aren't lying and you are full of bull.

It is a different virus. It is still a flu. It is a variant of SARS. It also is less infectious than most flu, and is killing less than most flu.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 06-04-2020 20:38
06-04-2020 20:53
keepit
★★★★☆
(1381)
You're doing that semantics thing again. It is confusing you.
There are a few influenza viruses that are often called the flu for short (virologists don't do this very much).
There are a different family (orthomyxovirus) of viruses (look at wiki for a picture). There is the carona virus (look at a picture on wiki). They are not anywhere near the same. A pictures tells a thousand words.
The corona virus is responsible for colds, covid19, and others.
Covid 19 does have some similarities to the influenza symptoms but it has very significant differences. They just aren't the same.
Edited on 06-04-2020 21:01
06-04-2020 21:42
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12381)
keepit wrote:
You're doing that semantics thing again. It is confusing you.

Inversion fallacy.
keepit wrote:
There are a few influenza viruses that are often called the flu for short (virologists don't do this very much).

Sure they do.
keepit wrote:
There are a different family (orthomyxovirus) of viruses (look at wiki for a picture). There is the carona virus (look at a picture on wiki). They are not anywhere near the same. A pictures tells a thousand words.

They are both flu.
keepit wrote:
The corona virus is responsible for colds, covid19, and others.

No. It is a flu.
keepit wrote:
Covid 19 does have some similarities to the influenza symptoms but it has very significant differences. They just aren't the same.

They are not the same, but they are both flu.


The Parrot Killer
07-04-2020 05:06
keepit
★★★★☆
(1381)
The number of new cases is staying the same but not increasing. That's not the same as decreasing. I'm surprised you think wrongly about a first derivative.
The new case rate may decrease, hopefully, but that just means that the number of new cases per day is staying almost the same and may continue. That will result in a lot of deaths. This isn't a time to decrease isolation or decrease social distance.
07-04-2020 05:33
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2922)
keepit wrote:...There's no evidence that i've heard that says it is seasonal at this point.
Since what is traditionally flu season is in steep decline from weeks 12 to 18, we are in week 15 of 2020. If this was season we would not be seeing plateaus now it would be in steep decline.




keepit wrote:We went from 1 to 10,000 in just over a month and the next two weeks are expected to be much worse.
And as the chart above shows that is not the timing or the pattern for flu season at all. So this is not "normal".

keepit wrote:...too bad there wasn't more "fear mongering" early on.
We have an administration and a conservative minority in the country at war with science. The "Fake News" and "Nothing can be Known" BS is an active threat. There is the famous example of irresponsible speech "Yelling fire in a crowded theater" but this is more like, while observing the flames, claiming the theater is not on fire and encouraging everyone to take their seats and finish the movie.

But here's the fun bit ITN: ITN/IBD have a handicap of not being able to admit they are wrong. They have both declared this to be a hoax so they will be owning that from here on out. Horrible as this is at least it was an idiot trap. Probably be a few more firings at Fox news.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
07-04-2020 05:39
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1946)
keepit wrote:
The number of new cases is staying the same but not increasing. That's not the same as decreasing. I'm surprised you think wrongly about a first derivative.
The new case rate may decrease, hopefully, but that just means that the number of new cases per day is staying almost the same and may continue. That will result in a lot of deaths. This isn't a time to decrease isolation or decrease social distance.


Confirmed cases, are more an indicator of larger numbers of tests being collected and processed. Still shortages of test kits, and backlogs at labs. New cases, are really 3-4 days, delayed, sometimes longer. Keep in mind, that not everyone is being tested either. In Florida, the test are being limited to specific groups. And in those groups of people at high-risk of complications, or professionals at high risk of exposure, only those with specific symptoms are actually given the Covid-19 test. It's not even a random sample of the population. No real statistical value.

All strains in the coronavirus family have a similar appearance and structure. The difference is in the RNA strand.

Cold and Flu, are names given to a collection of symptoms. Those names were around, before we knew about viruses.
07-04-2020 06:11
keepit
★★★★☆
(1381)
Harvey,
One of your better posts.
Do you think social distancing and isolation are helping the situation.
Personally i don't see how isolation could do anything but decrease the number of infections. It's only common sense.
I'm glad you agree the RNA strand in the corona is different than the RNA strand in the common cold or in the influenza.
Edited on 07-04-2020 06:15
07-04-2020 06:25
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1694)
keepit wrote:
Do you think social distancing and isolation are helping the situation.
Personally i don't see how isolation could do anything but decrease the number of infections. It's only common sense.


...and then there are places like Sweeden. That country did not shut down. Schools, bars, restaurants open. They've had their share of cases but nothing crazy, especially with a city of 1 million like Stockholm. They're rate of increase seems actually SLOWER than most places in the US. At their steepest climb, it doubled in 6.5 days, compared to many States doubling every 2.5-3 days.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102203/cumulative-coronavirus-cases-in-sweden/


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
Edited on 07-04-2020 06:36
07-04-2020 09:10
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1946)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
One of your better posts.
Do you think social distancing and isolation are helping the situation.
Personally i don't see how isolation could do anything but decrease the number of infections. It's only common sense.
I'm glad you agree the RNA strand in the corona is different than the RNA strand in the common cold or in the influenza.


I do the distancing thing, naturally, and have had pretty good luck, not catching the seasonal cold or flu. I prefer to keep people about 3 feet away, bare minimum. Not always possible, but if there is room, I make use of it. I also tend to wash my hands often, since they get dirty, from working. And, I've know since very young, about not touching my face, without washing first.

I think the isolation, is over-kill. If a person is sick, they should stay home. People who aren't showing symptoms, aren't coughing and sneezing. People with health issues, should limit contact, isolate.

I believe we would be much better off, letting health people get infected. It's no worse than a cold, for the vast majority of people. We've all gone through the symptoms a few times. 5-7 days later, it's done, we feel better, and immune to that strain. What we are doing now, is to stretch this thing out. No vaccine, until next spring, earliest. Which means all the people who didn't get it the time, will be prime to get it, and spread it. We are likely to repeat, what we are going through right now. 7.7 billion people in the world, and just over a million confirmed cases. Just a small fraction of the people. Basically, if we get lucky, we might get a couple months break, before getting locked in our homes again.
07-04-2020 17:05
James___
★★★★★
(2631)
HarveyH55 wrote:
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
One of your better posts.
Do you think social distancing and isolation are helping the situation.
Personally i don't see how isolation could do anything but decrease the number of infections. It's only common sense.
I'm glad you agree the RNA strand in the corona is different than the RNA strand in the common cold or in the influenza.


I do the distancing thing, naturally, and have had pretty good luck, not catching the seasonal cold or flu. I prefer to keep people about 3 feet away, bare minimum. Not always possible, but if there is room, I make use of it. I also tend to wash my hands often, since they get dirty, from working. And, I've know since very young, about not touching my face, without washing first.

I think the isolation, is over-kill. If a person is sick, they should stay home. People who aren't showing symptoms, aren't coughing and sneezing. People with health issues, should limit contact, isolate.

I believe we would be much better off, letting health people get infected. It's no worse than a cold, for the vast majority of people. We've all gone through the symptoms a few times. 5-7 days later, it's done, we feel better, and immune to that strain. What we are doing now, is to stretch this thing out. No vaccine, until next spring, earliest. Which means all the people who didn't get it the time, will be prime to get it, and spread it. We are likely to repeat, what we are going through right now. 7.7 billion people in the world, and just over a million confirmed cases. Just a small fraction of the people. Basically, if we get lucky, we might get a couple months break, before getting locked in our homes again.



And if we had a Democrat for a president, you'd be blaming Democrats for wanting to spend more of your hard earned money for you. Kind of why having only 2 viable political parties hurts the US. It all becomes a blame game.
With me, I like the fact that coronavirus shows that there are other threats that we need to consider that are more imminent. But as you so correctly state, most people don't care just as long as they don't have to do something. At least most Americans anyway.
07-04-2020 21:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12381)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
One of your better posts.
Do you think social distancing and isolation are helping the situation.
Personally i don't see how isolation could do anything but decrease the number of infections. It's only common sense.
I'm glad you agree the RNA strand in the corona is different than the RNA strand in the common cold or in the influenza.


Corona is a flu. RNA strands are different for every flu.
Flu spreads by droplets or by atmosphere. Isolation was not decreasing the number of infections. What IS increasing the number of infections is the flu running it's usual course.


The Parrot Killer
07-04-2020 23:58
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1946)
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
One of your better posts.
Do you think social distancing and isolation are helping the situation.
Personally i don't see how isolation could do anything but decrease the number of infections. It's only common sense.
I'm glad you agree the RNA strand in the corona is different than the RNA strand in the common cold or in the influenza.


Corona is a flu. RNA strands are different for every flu.
Flu spreads by droplets or by atmosphere. Isolation was not decreasing the number of infections. What IS increasing the number of infections is the flu running it's usual course.


I'm not going to waste a lot of time, on silly back and forth, word games. There really hasn't been an official designation, far as I can tell. The 'experts' on TV, and online, still refer to it as 'virus'. Cold, is strictly respiratory, flu spreads further, causing nausea and diarrhea. Covid-19 is mostly upper respiratory, and can reach the lungs, in more severe cases. It's a dry infection, runny nose isn't among the common symptoms. Fairly certain it's classified as a cold. Flu, just sounds better, for fear mongering media. There are already two other coronavirus strains, in the cold classification.
08-04-2020 03:17
James___
★★★★★
(2631)
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
One of your better posts.
Do you think social distancing and isolation are helping the situation.
Personally i don't see how isolation could do anything but decrease the number of infections. It's only common sense.
I'm glad you agree the RNA strand in the corona is different than the RNA strand in the common cold or in the influenza.


Corona is a flu. RNA strands are different for every flu.
Flu spreads by droplets or by atmosphere. Isolation was not decreasing the number of infections. What IS increasing the number of infections is the flu running it's usual course.


You must love Harvey. Is he your boyfriend?




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