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One reason for social distancing/isolation



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22-04-2020 19:07
James___
★★★★★
(3437)
gfm7175 wrote:
James___ wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
James___ wrote:
This link has an interactive graph for New York. It also shows that in the last 10 days that have gone from 500 deaths a day to around 200. They're showing a significant downward trend. This is where if they could get everyone to wear masks, then they might be able to start getting things back to normal. If wearing a mask keeps the numbers low then would people be willing to wear one?

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

Masks do not stop a virus. Virions are smaller than the size of particulates that an N95 mask will filter out.



And yet every time I've had surgery, all medical personnel in the operating room are wearing masks to reduce the risk of exposing the patient to germs they might have. After all, they work in a hospital and are constantly exposed to a myriad number of bacteria or viruses. But shutting down the economy works for me. It's actually helping me

It's not helping you at all, dude. Printing money out of thin air is not a good thing.

Virions are considerably smaller than the particulate size that masks are rated for. Masks will not stop a virus.



So you're saying that if I earn money after this is over that it's not helping me? I'll let my bank account decide that and not you. You're just another jealous person.
I also said "me". I don't have the ability to print money just like people like you who don't have the ability to wear a mask. As you say, it doesn't help. You don't like America, do you?
Edited on 22-04-2020 19:10
25-04-2020 20:55
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:
He has elaborated many times.
How about sharing just one time IBD? ITN, and you, extolled the Moana Loa data as being valid when the Data Mine was written (in my sig) and no neither of you have ever explained how it is that you used it as an example then but deny the similar data now. And no, neither of you have in recent years offered a single example of "valid data". The hypocrisy is comical.

Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
noun Statistics.

Not statistics. Dictionaries do not define words.
So what is your definition then? And NO you did not provide it.

Into the Night wrote:Because it isn't a chart of doctors recording the number of patients diagnosed.
So anything that comes from human hands is a "random" number? You seem to imply it's useless is that the case?

You do realize that this is also true of your Mauna Loa and Hurricane data you offered in the Data Mine?

gfm7175 wrote:
Masks do not stop a virus. Virions are smaller than the size of particulates that an N95 mask will filter out.
This is like saying bullet proof vests don't protect you because it could be a head shot. It is simply false. Masks don't protect you 100%, true. While the main value of mask is in preventing the giver of a virus from spreading it to a large degree (no not 100%) it is still effective in protecting the would be receiver of the virus, to a large degree:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
A huge plus I've found in wearing a mask is I'm prevented from touching my own face. So if I'm touch surfaces while wearing the mask and make sure to wash my hands before removing it then it's preventing the surface to face hand transfer.
26-04-2020 00:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13785)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted Mantras 29...4c...30...10 (Data Mine<->valid data)...29...lie...16c...4c...16c...20k...25f...26...fear mongering...


No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
27-04-2020 17:35
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Masks do not stop a virus. Virions are smaller than the size of particulates that an N95 mask will filter out.
This is like saying bullet proof vests don't protect you because it could be a head shot.

No, it's like saying that bullet proof vests don't protect you because the specs of the ammunition/weapon being used are beyond the specs of the vest. One CAN die by bullets while wearing a bullet proof vest. Vests do not stop bullets. Masks do not stop viruses.

tmiddles wrote:
It is simply false. Masks don't protect you 100%, true. While the main value of mask is in preventing the giver of a virus from spreading it to a large degree (no not 100%) it is still effective in protecting the would be receiver of the virus, to a large degree:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
A huge plus I've found in wearing a mask is I'm prevented from touching my own face. So if I'm touch surfaces while wearing the mask and make sure to wash my hands before removing it then it's preventing the surface to face hand transfer.

No it's not. Germs that were on the exterior of your mask are now on your hands. You've stopped nothing. You're still inhaling viruses into your body since the pores of the mask are larger than viruses are. You've stopped nothing.

Stop fear mongering and just let your immune system do its thing. Get some fresh air and let sunlight exposure do its thing.
27-04-2020 21:19
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2708)
Masks don't do anything to protect the person wearing them. An infected person, is less able to spray the virus on other people, and surfaces. It's not just coughing or sneezing, most people spray a little when talking. A few rare people, it's quite obvious... With some people, they don't feel very sick, but are still infected, and can still infect others. Hard to tell. This whole response, is to treat everybody, as if they are infected, and spread this 'deadly' disease. Quarantine, is to separate the sick people, from going out and infecting the healthy. We are all quarantined, regardless of health or risk. Sort of a 'brute force' approach. Pretty stupid plan, from people, who should be smarter than that. Might have been effective, to some degree, if we only had a single point of origin. We literally had a couple hundred thousand, potentially infected travelers flying in, daily, for over a month, spread out all over the country. Test and trace is BS too. How do they expect every person that test positive, to produce a complete, and accurate contact list, for the previous 3 weeks? Just weekly grocery shopping, I come close enough to people I've never seen before, probably never see again, seldom reason to remember any useful information. Maybe the government has a GPS thing going with cell phones... I've never had cell service, but do have a phone, for one of my drones, no sim card though.
28-04-2020 07:04
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:This is like saying bullet proof vests don't protect you because it could be a head shot.

No, ...Vests do not stop bullets. Masks do not stop viruses.
Dude you just said "No" and then repeated the same nonsense. BULLET PROOF VESTS PROTECT YOU FROM BULLETS! that's why they exist at all!

gfm7175 wrote:...Germs that were on the exterior of your mask are now on your hands. You've stopped nothing.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Masks don't do anything to protect the person wearing them.
So in your learned opinion the virus lives forever and is unstoppable BUT it's also mild and not unusually powerful. Hmmmm.

So I guess this ACTUALLY learned opinion is part of a conspiracy?:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449 "Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the disease."

Maybe this will be published int he journal DUH!:


I know you won't answer but I'll go ahead and ask. What do either of you base your opinion that face masks do nothing on?

It would seem there is a frequent brain fart on this board of less that 100%=zero. Here's a pro math tip: 0%=zero, anything more than that, though it may be less than 100%, aint zero.
Edited on 28-04-2020 07:05
28-04-2020 17:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13785)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:This is like saying bullet proof vests don't protect you because it could be a head shot.

No, ...Vests do not stop bullets. Masks do not stop viruses.
Dude you just said "No" and then repeated the same nonsense. BULLET PROOF VESTS PROTECT YOU FROM BULLETS! that's why they exist at all!

Nope. They only work if the vest is rated for the type of bullet and range. Otherwise it will not stop them. Compositional error fallacy. Mantra 25j.
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...Germs that were on the exterior of your mask are now on your hands. You've stopped nothing.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Masks don't do anything to protect the person wearing them.
So in your learned opinion the virus lives forever and is unstoppable BUT it's also mild and not unusually powerful. Hmmmm.
No, he said N95 masks do not stop a virus. Pay attention. Mantra 15.
tmiddles wrote:
So I guess this ACTUALLY learned opinion is part of a conspiracy?:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449 "Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the disease."

Mantra 4b. The Mayo clinic does not write the N95 specification, and is spreading misinformation.
tmiddles wrote:
Maybe this will be published int he journal DUH!:
...deleted Holy Link...

I know you won't answer but I'll go ahead and ask. What do either of you base your opinion that face masks do nothing on?
The N95 specification. RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
It would seem there is a frequent brain fart on this board of less that 100%=zero. Here's a pro math tip: 0%=zero, anything more than that, though it may be less than 100%, aint zero.

Fallacy fallacy. Inversion fallacy. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-04-2020 17:36
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:This is like saying bullet proof vests don't protect you because it could be a head shot.

No, ...Vests do not stop bullets. Masks do not stop viruses.
Dude you just said "No" and then repeated the same nonsense. BULLET PROOF VESTS PROTECT YOU FROM BULLETS! that's why they exist at all!

Are all vests the same? Are all bullets the same?

Are all masks the same? Are all virions/bacterium the same?

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...Germs that were on the exterior of your mask are now on your hands. You've stopped nothing.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Masks don't do anything to protect the person wearing them.
So in your learned opinion the virus lives forever and is unstoppable BUT it's also mild and not unusually powerful. Hmmmm.

Didn't say any of that. Immune systems can stop a virus. UV can stop a virus. COVID-19 is mild. It is a flu, no worse than the common flus that go around annually.

tmiddles wrote:...deleted "holy links"... I know you won't answer but I'll go ahead and ask.

I've already answered, but will do so again here.

tmiddles wrote:
What do either of you base your opinion that face masks do nothing on?

The specs of an N95 mask, the specs of an average virion/bacterium, and mathematics.

The specs of an N95 mask (let alone other masks) are ~95% of particulates larger than 300nm in size. The average virion/bacterium is quite a bit smaller than that, and could even be as small as 20nm or so). Masks do not stop a virus.

tmiddles wrote:
It would seem there is a frequent brain fart on this board of less that 100%=zero. Here's a pro math tip: 0%=zero, anything more than that, though it may be less than 100%, aint zero.

Your issue, not mine.

Here's a pro logic tip:
vest #1 is NOT vest #2.
bullet #1 is NOT bullet #2.
gun #1 is NOT gun #2.
shooting distance #1 is NOT shooting distance #2.
mask #1 is NOT mask #2.
Edited on 28-04-2020 17:43
28-04-2020 17:41
keepit
★★★★☆
(1748)
The virus rides in droplet spray which is large enough to be stopped by the mask.
28-04-2020 17:54
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
keepit wrote:
The virus rides in droplet spray which is large enough to be stopped by the mask.

Are you telling us that the mask will stop droplets while not stopping the viruses?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-04-2020 18:03
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
Into the Night wrote:
Nope. They only work if the vest is rated for the type of bullet and range. .
Did I say all bullets all the time?

Again the brain fart of less than 100%=zero

Would you recommend cops not wear vests?

Into the Night wrote:
...he said N95 masks do not stop a virus.
and he said you'd touch the mask and get the virus. As though it can live forever on the mask.

Into the Night wrote:
...The Mayo clinic ... is spreading misinformation.
bold claim! Care to support it and make it an argument?

Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
...What do either of you base your opinion that face masks do nothing on?
The N95 specification..

This?:
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-and-surgical-masks-face-masks

gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
What do either of you base your opinion that face masks do nothing on?

The specs of an N95 mask, the specs of an average virion/bacterium, and mathematics.
So the above spec? And you're saying the Mayo Clinic got it wrong but you're getting it right?
Edited on 28-04-2020 18:06
28-04-2020 18:27
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
IBdaMann wrote:
keepit wrote:
The virus rides in droplet spray which is large enough to be stopped by the mask.

Are you telling us that the mask will stop droplets while not stopping the viruses?


.

That's what I got out of his post anyway.

Maybe his line of reasoning is (operating under the assumptions that all droplets/nuclei containing the virus are larger than 300nm, that the virus is "trapped" inside of the droplet upon making impact with the mask, that viruses are "dead upon arrival" in open air, and that ~95% = 100%) that if you can stop the droplet, then you can stop the virus?
Edited on 28-04-2020 19:12
28-04-2020 19:01
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Nope. They only work if the vest is rated for the type of bullet and range. .
Did I say all bullets all the time?

Yes, you did. You said, and I quote, "BULLET PROOF VESTS PROTECT YOU FROM BULLETS!" That is making reference to all vests and all bullets.

tmiddles wrote:
Again the brain fart of less than 100%=zero

No, it is YOUR brain fart (and logical fallacy) of one [thing] being improperly extended to all [things].

tmiddles wrote:
Would you recommend cops not wear vests?

Vests are a useful protective tool, but they do not stop all guns and all bullets at all ranges. Vests have specs, as respirator masks do, as computers do, as vehicles do, as engines do, etc. etc...

tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
...he said N95 masks do not stop a virus.
and he said you'd touch the mask and get the virus. As though it can live forever on the mask.

The bolded part was added by you. The context of the "touch the mask and get the virus" comment was in response to your claim that masks somehow prevent hand to face transfer if you wash your hands before removing the mask. My point was that, after you wash your hands, you are then touching the mask (which could have the virus on it at the time you touch it), and then you touch your face with your hands afterwards. You are stopping nothing. This whole off-shoot from the main discussion is rather pointless anyway, since masks do not stop a person from breathing in viruses.

tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
...The Mayo clinic ... is spreading misinformation.
bold claim! Care to support it and make it an argument?

Both he and I already did.

tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
...What do either of you base your opinion that face masks do nothing on?
The N95 specification..

This?:
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-and-surgical-masks-face-masks

It appears that the specs (~95% of larger than 300nm) are correctly listed in this article. Did you happen to read through it by any chance? What's your thought on this little nugget from it?

The 'N95' designation means that when subjected to careful testing, the respirator blocks at least 95 percent of very small (0.3 micron) test particles. If properly fitted, the filtration capabilities of N95 respirators exceed those of face masks. However, even a properly fitted N95 respirator does not completely eliminate the risk of illness or death.

Now, I'd even go beyond the particular language of "does not completely eliminate", but here the FDA is even admitting that a "properly fitted N95 mask" will not stop a virus.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
What do either of you base your opinion that face masks do nothing on?

The specs of an N95 mask, the specs of an average virion/bacterium, and mathematics.
So the above spec? And you're saying the Mayo Clinic got it wrong but you're getting it right?

Yes, the above spec (~95% of larger than 300nm).

Yes, the Mayo Clinic has it wrong.
Edited on 28-04-2020 19:06
28-04-2020 19:05
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13785)
keepit wrote:
The virus rides in droplet spray which is large enough to be stopped by the mask.


Nope. The virus can survive in open air. The droplets are stopped, but the virus is not.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-04-2020 19:10
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13785)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Nope. They only work if the vest is rated for the type of bullet and range. .
Did I say all bullets all the time?
...deleted Mantras 1...16c...lie...29...4b...4f...35a...37a...29...


Yes. You did.

No arguments presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 28-04-2020 19:11
28-04-2020 19:55
keepit
★★★★☆
(1748)
This discussions like the discussion about greenhouse gasses being able to stop the flow of energy. The same people take the same side on each issue.
Bizarre.
28-04-2020 21:08
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
gfm7175 wrote:
Yes, you did. You said, and I quote, "BULLET PROOF VESTS PROTECT YOU FROM BULLETS!" That is making reference to all vests and all bullets.


Truly unique thinking GFM. I'll say it again:
Almost nothing in this world is 100% anything.

I don't share your perspective on the English language but I'm happy to clarify anything for you.

gfm7175 wrote:
Vests are a useful protective tool, but they do not stop all guns and all bullets
But masks are useless and pointless against a virus? They do nothing while vests do something?

gfm7175 wrote:My point was that, after you wash your hands, you are then touching the mask ...
which is a why you remove it from the straps. The virus also has a finite life span in open air.

gfm7175 wrote:...masks do not stop a person from breathing in viruses.
A false statement if you mean they never do. They MOSTLY do. Most virus will be in water droplets from an infected person. Those droplets are stopped by the mask.
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/qa/how-do-viruses-spread-from-person-to-person

gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
...The Mayo clinic ... is spreading misinformation.
bold claim! Care to support it and make it an argument?

Both he and I already did.
With the N95 spec? I linked to that and it does not support your allegation at all.

gfm7175 wrote:However, even a properly fitted N95 respirator does not completely eliminate the risk of illness or death....a "properly fitted N95 mask" will not stop a virus.
So you equate less than 100% with zero! That is not correct.

As with a bullet proof vest the answer is inbetween 0 and 100. Disagree?
28-04-2020 21:23
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
keepit wrote:
This discussions like the discussion about greenhouse gasses being able to stop the flow of energy. The same people take the same side on each issue.
Bizarre.

I smell a veiled sock accusation here. Meh.

What is going on is simply a matter of some people being literate in logic, mathematics, science, immunology, virology, chemistry, history, philosophy, English, ... ... ... ... ... while other people are mostly (or completely) illiterate in these things.
28-04-2020 21:41
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
gfm7175 wrote:
...some people being literate in ...immunology, virology, chemistry, .


You see keepit gfm itn and Alex Jones are experts on virology the Mayo Clinic doesn't know s***
28-04-2020 21:51
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Yes, you did. You said, and I quote, "BULLET PROOF VESTS PROTECT YOU FROM BULLETS!" That is making reference to all vests and all bullets.


Truly unique thinking GFM.

It's YOUR thinking, not mine. Inversion Fallacy.

tmiddles wrote:
I'll say it again:
Almost nothing in this world is 100% anything.

Plenty of things in this world are 100%.

tmiddles wrote:
I don't share your perspective on the English language but I'm happy to clarify anything for you.

I don't believe you.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Vests are a useful protective tool, but they do not stop all guns and all bullets
But masks are useless

No, masks do have their place, and are useful IF USED FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSES, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR PARTICULAR SPECIFICATIONS.

tmiddles wrote:
and pointless against a virus?

Correct. Protection from viruses is not an intended purpose of a mask, and the size of a virus is beyond the specifications that masks are rated for.

tmiddles wrote:
They do nothing while vests do something?

They are both useful and "do something" IF they are used for their intended purposes, in accordance with their particular specifications.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:My point was that, after you wash your hands, you are then touching the mask ...
which is a why you remove it from the straps. The virus also has a finite life span in open air.

Doesn't change anything.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...masks do not stop a person from breathing in viruses.
A false statement if you mean they never do. They MOSTLY do. Most virus will be in water droplets from an infected person. Those droplets are stopped by the mask... deleted holy link...

Nope, a mask does not stop a virus. An N95 mask can mostly stop respiratory droplets (as those droplets are generally larger than 500nm in size, let alone 300nm), but an N95 mask cannot stop viruses (as viruses are generally much smaller than 300nm in size).

Stopping droplets is NOT equivalent to stopping viruses.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
...The Mayo clinic ... is spreading misinformation.
bold claim! Care to support it and make it an argument?

Both he and I already did.
With the N95 spec? I linked to that and it does not support your allegation at all.

You've been provided with the specs of N95 masks, and you've already been provided with the typical sizes of viruses. You are denying mathematics.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:However, even a properly fitted N95 respirator does not completely eliminate the risk of illness or death....a "properly fitted N95 mask" will not stop a virus.
So you equate less than 100% with zero! That is not correct.

As with a bullet proof vest the answer is inbetween 0 and 100. Disagree?

As I've said before, masks and vests have specs. Those things do no good in situations beyond their specs.

A chair that has a spec of 300lbs works great for the typical person, but it will not work for the 500lb lard ass. Being that morbidly obese goes beyond the specs of the chair. The chair will not work for that particular lard ass. Same with "bullet proof" vests... Same with masks...
28-04-2020 21:52
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
...some people being literate in ...immunology, virology, chemistry, .


You see keepit gfm itn and Alex Jones are experts on virology the Mayo Clinic doesn't know s***

Bulverism.
False Authority.
28-04-2020 22:07
keepit
★★★★☆
(1748)
gfm,
I can clearly tell the difference between you and itn and ibd in your posts. It took me awhile to figure out that you weren't itn. Are you and he brothers. I suppose it's none of my business.
28-04-2020 22:37
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
keepit wrote:
gfm,
I can clearly tell the difference between you and itn and ibd in your posts.

That's good. We're all separate people from different areas across the country.

keepit wrote:
It took me awhile to figure out that you weren't itn.

I believe you.

keepit wrote:
Are you and he brothers. I suppose it's none of my business.

Nope, we are not family members. He lives in Washington State, while I live in Wisconsin. I don't know where IBD is from.
29-04-2020 00:21
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
gfm7175 wrote:
Plenty of things in this world are 100%.
Name one.

gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
I don't share your perspective on the English language but I'm happy to clarify anything for you.

I don't believe you.
I don't play "RQAA" games you'll notice. Ask a question and get an answer.

gfm7175 wrote:...masks do have their place, and are useful IF USED FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSES, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR PARTICULAR SPECIFICATIONS.
But Dr. Fauci and the Mayo Clinic are not in a position to prescribe intended purposes? Intended by who? 3M?

gfm7175 wrote:
Doesn't change anything.
Care to find something to back up your contrarian claim? Here is something that refutes it:
https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces
"...coronavirus live for only a few minutes on paper"

gfm7175 wrote:...an N95 mask cannot stop viruses

You confuse "cannot" with "might not".

You are refuted by 3M bucko:
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1820269O/respiratory-protection-in-healthcare-qrg-standard-n95-vs-surgical-n95-respirators.pdf
" Surgical N95 respirators
and standard N95 respirators are similar in appearance and both can effectively filter airborne biological particles such as viruses and bacteria when properly selected and worn." Note they say "CAN" and not "WILL".

gfm7175 wrote:Those things do no good in situations beyond their specs.
A chair that has a spec of 300lbs works great for the typical person, but it will not work for the 500lb lard ass. ...
Specs are minimums dude.

A 500lb person might break a 300lb chair but they probably wouldn't.
Edited on 29-04-2020 00:22
29-04-2020 00:55
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote: Plenty of things in this world are 100%.
Name one.

A hydrogen atom.


There are lots of those. Lots.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-04-2020 00:57
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Plenty of things in this world are 100%.
Name one.

Physical death.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
I don't share your perspective on the English language but I'm happy to clarify anything for you.

I don't believe you.
I don't play "RQAA" games you'll notice. Ask a question and get an answer.

RQAA is not a game. It is your preferred mantra.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...masks do have their place, and are useful IF USED FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSES, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR PARTICULAR SPECIFICATIONS.
But Dr. Fauci and the Mayo Clinic are not in a position to prescribe intended purposes? Intended by who? 3M?

The specifications of an N95 mask are the same no matter if Fauci references them, Mayo Clinic references them, or I reference them. Same goes for the size of an average virus.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Doesn't change anything.
Care to find something to back up your contrarian claim? Here is something that refutes it:
https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces
"...coronavirus live for only a few minutes on paper"

Already addressed the "contrarian claim" nonsense. Already provided my argumentation.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...an N95 mask cannot stop viruses

You confuse "cannot" with "might not".

No, I meant cannot. I have already provided my reasoning.

tmiddles wrote:
You are refuted by 3M bucko:
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1820269O/respiratory-protection-in-healthcare-qrg-standard-n95-vs-surgical-n95-respirators.pdf
" Surgical N95 respirators
and standard N95 respirators are similar in appearance and both can effectively filter airborne biological particles such as viruses and bacteria when properly selected and worn." Note they say "CAN" and not "WILL".

3M bucko is wrong. 3M bucko, like you, is denying mathematics.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:Those things do no good in situations beyond their specs.
A chair that has a spec of 300lbs works great for the typical person, but it will not work for the 500lb lard ass. ...
Specs are minimums dude.

No they aren't.

tmiddles wrote:
A 500lb person might break a 300lb chair but they probably wouldn't.

No, they would break it. They weigh well beyond the capacity of the chair.
29-04-2020 02:01
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2708)
Read the label on the chair, it clearly will state 'MAXIMUM', which is to relieve the manufacturer of liability, when it breaks under your fat ass.

Look up, 'Black Talon' ammunition... Teflon coated bullets, that can easily penetrate bullet-proof vests. There are others, that sometimes get through as well. Sort of like wearing a seat belt in your car, will prevent/reduce injury in some accidents, but often don't make a whole lot of difference. That's why airbags are also required... And yet, people still get seriously injured, and die in car accidents.
29-04-2020 03:53
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13785)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Plenty of things in this world are 100%.
Name one.

gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
I don't share your perspective on the English language but I'm happy to clarify anything for you.

I don't believe you.
I don't play "RQAA" games you'll notice.

Lie. You play them all the time. That's why I keep calling out on them.
tmiddles wrote:
Ask a question and get an answer.

Lie. You still have not answered IBdaMann's questions put to you.
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...masks do have their place, and are useful IF USED FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSES, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR PARTICULAR SPECIFICATIONS.
But Dr. Fauci and the Mayo Clinic are not in a position to prescribe intended purposes? Intended by who? 3M?

For masks manufactured by 3M, yes. They also developed the N95 specification.
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Doesn't change anything.
Care to find something to back up your contrarian claim? Here is something that refutes it:
https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces
"...coronavirus live for only a few minutes on paper"

Viruses aren't alive. Corona virus can stay intact on a paper surface for days. False authority fallacy.
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...an N95 mask cannot stop viruses

You confuse "cannot" with "might not".

It cannot. YOU are confusing 'cannot' with 'might not'. Inversion fallacy. An N95 mask will effectively block particles as small as 0.3um. Viruses are only 0.020 um. An N95 mask WILL NOT STOP A VIRUS.
tmiddles wrote:
You are refuted by 3M bucko:
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1820269O/respiratory-protection-in-healthcare-qrg-standard-n95-vs-surgical-n95-respirators.pdf
" Surgical N95 respirators
and standard N95 respirators are similar in appearance and both can effectively filter airborne biological particles such as viruses and bacteria when properly selected and worn." Note they say "CAN" and not "WILL".

Misquoted by you, like usual. They are referring to viruses that cannot survive in the open air, but are transmitted by sneezing or coughing. Covid can survive in the open air for hours...maybe longer.
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:Those things do no good in situations beyond their specs.
A chair that has a spec of 300lbs works great for the typical person, but it will not work for the 500lb lard ass. ...
Specs are minimums dude.

WRONG. Specs are design values.
tmiddles wrote:
A 500lb person might break a 300lb chair but they probably wouldn't.

They will break the chair.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
29-04-2020 03:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13785)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Read the label on the chair, it clearly will state 'MAXIMUM', which is to relieve the manufacturer of liability, when it breaks under your fat ass.

Look up, 'Black Talon' ammunition... Teflon coated bullets, that can easily penetrate bullet-proof vests. There are others, that sometimes get through as well. Sort of like wearing a seat belt in your car, will prevent/reduce injury in some accidents, but often don't make a whole lot of difference. That's why airbags are also required... And yet, people still get seriously injured, and die in car accidents.


Correct. Bullet proof vests are generally good for most pistol ammunition, if the pistol is 25 yds away or so.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
29-04-2020 09:21
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
Into the Night wrote:Correct. Bullet proof vests are generally good for most pistol ammunition, if the pistol is 25 yds away or so.

Then there is the issue of plural bullets.

Dragon Skin is a form of body armor that attempted to bridge the law enforcement and military gaps, i.e. be used in both SWAT, DEA and military operations.

Sure, it was good at protecting against more than just pistols, but once it took a hit from a round, it became "damaged" in that spot and needed to be repaired before being used again. Ergo, if it took a hit, another bullet in that same general spot could go through.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-04-2020 00:23
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote: Plenty of things in this world are 100%.
Name one.

A hydrogen atom.
Your sentence would need to include "100%" to be responsive IBD.

gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Plenty of things in this world are 100%.
Name one.

Physical death.
Watching a bit too much TRUE BLOOD?

How could you possibly know that?

But setting that aside I see you can't find anything remotely similar the efficacy of a protective measure or anything related to repeated events and populations.

gfm7175 wrote:
RQAA is not a game. It is your preferred mantra.
? I don't say RQAA, you do.

I answer questions in a debate, I don't duck them.
Into the Night wrote:
Lie. You still have not answered IBdaMann's questions put to you.
Not true. What question? Let me guess: RQAA

LAME!!

gfm7175 wrote:
3M bucko is wrong. 3M bucko, like you, is denying mathematics.
So you are saying your argument is BASED on 3Ms representations for the N95 and, simultaneously, 3M is wrong in their literature on the N95 where is contradicts you?

Seriously?

HarveyH55 wrote:
Read the label on the chair, it clearly will state 'MAXIMUM',
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:Those things do no good in situations beyond their specs.
A chair that has a spec of 300lbs works great for the typical person, but it will not work for the 500lb lard ass. ...
Specs are minimums dude.

No they aren't.
Tell that to the in house counsel for any manfucturer.

Let me guess you think that if a 301lbs person sits in a chair rated at 300lbs it will break every time?

HarveyH55 wrote:ort of like wearing a seat belt in your car, will prevent/reduce injury in some accidents, but often don't make a whole lot of difference.
So do you wear a seatbelt? Do you consider it wise?

While that would normally be a stupid question this debate has forged well into that territory.
Edited on 30-04-2020 00:26
30-04-2020 01:01
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:So you are saying your argument is BASED on 3Ms representations for the N95

Yes, it is.

tmiddles wrote:
and, simultaneously, 3M is wrong in their literature on the N95 where is contradicts you?

Seriously?

Their literature doesn't contradict what I've been saying. I just misread your post and gave an inappropriate reply as a result of that misreading. But my argumentation still stands. Viruses are smaller than the specs of an N95 mask.
30-04-2020 01:28
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:So you are saying your argument is BASED on 3Ms representations for the N95

Yes, it is.

tmiddles wrote:
and, simultaneously, 3M is wrong in their literature on the N95 where is contradicts you?

Seriously?

Their literature doesn't contradict what I've been saying. I just misread your post and gave an inappropriate reply as a result of that misreading. But my argumentation still stands. Viruses are smaller than the specs of an N95 mask.


So wearing an N95 mask as a method of protection against a virus is not different than using the following for protection:
Seat belts
Bullet Proof vests
A military
Police
Maintaining sanitary conditions
and Just about ANYTHING in the real world we do for our own welfare.

Because it's never 100% but that doesn't mean there is no point in doing it.
30-04-2020 02:15
James___
★★★★★
(3437)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:So you are saying your argument is BASED on 3Ms representations for the N95

Yes, it is.

tmiddles wrote:
and, simultaneously, 3M is wrong in their literature on the N95 where is contradicts you?

Seriously?

Their literature doesn't contradict what I've been saying. I just misread your post and gave an inappropriate reply as a result of that misreading. But my argumentation still stands. Viruses are smaller than the specs of an N95 mask.


So wearing an N95 mask as a method of protection against a virus is not different than using the following for protection:
Seat belts
Bullet Proof vests
A military
Police
Maintaining sanitary conditions
and Just about ANYTHING in the real world we do for our own welfare.

Because it's never 100% but that doesn't mean there is no point in doing it.



Doctors actually said to wear no PPE, personal protective clothing because it doesn't help. They emphasized this because THEY need it to protect themselves with.
Kind of why many of us are now wearing masks. Someone actually started asking why do doctors and nurses need PPE when people who are getting sick don't need it?
I keep emphasizing this one point tmiddles. Sweden is an example of safe practices while keeping businesses open and keeping the economy going. And Harvey55 says he can't support something like that because he's not afraid of getting sick so fück everyone else. You seem to share his same attitude.
Doctors in the US helped to create the problem by looking out for themselves. The massive number of media reports shows they were only concerned about themselves becoming infected and not the general population.
Kind of why I think living in the US sucks. It's not about the life we have but it is about how good we want to think we are. And at the end of the day, the US needs it's Rock Stars like climate change scientists, doctors, pregnant teen mothers, etc to think about their own life. Welcome to Rome my friend. AD 200 and counting.
30-04-2020 04:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13785)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote: Plenty of things in this world are 100%.
Name one.

A hydrogen atom.
Your sentence would need to include "100%" to be responsive IBD.

A hydrogen atom 100% exists. It will behave like a hydrogen atom 100%. There. Satisfied?

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Plenty of things in this world are 100%.
Name one.

Physical death.
Watching a bit too much TRUE BLOOD?

How could you possibly know that?

Have you ever seen death? It's rather final. It's a 100% chance that you will suffer death.
tmiddles wrote:
But setting that aside I see you can't find anything remotely similar the efficacy of a protective measure or anything related to repeated events and populations.

* masks don't stop viruses.
* 6 feet doesn't stop viruses.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
RQAA is not a game. It is your preferred mantra.
? I don't say RQAA, you do.

Because you keep asking the same questions over and over even though they've already been answered. It's moronic to do that.
tmiddles wrote:
I answer questions in a debate, I don't duck them.
Into the Night wrote:
Lie. You still have not answered IBdaMann's questions put to you.
Not true. What question? Let me guess: RQAA

LAME!!

RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
3M bucko is wrong. 3M bucko, like you, is denying mathematics.
So you are saying your argument is BASED on 3Ms representations for the N95 and, simultaneously, 3M is wrong in their literature on the N95 where is contradicts you?

No, you are misrepresenting 3M literature, the same way you misrepresent a lot of things.
tmiddles wrote:
Seriously?

HarveyH55 wrote:
Read the label on the chair, it clearly will state 'MAXIMUM',
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:Those things do no good in situations beyond their specs.
A chair that has a spec of 300lbs works great for the typical person, but it will not work for the 500lb lard ass. ...
Specs are minimums dude.

No they aren't.
Tell that to the in house counsel for any manfucturer.

Let me guess you think that if a 301lbs person sits in a chair rated at 300lbs it will break every time?

HarveyH55 wrote:ort of like wearing a seat belt in your car, will prevent/reduce injury in some accidents, but often don't make a whole lot of difference.
So do you wear a seatbelt? Do you consider it wise?

Seat belts are the best protection in a car or aircraft. Buses and boats not so much.
tmiddles wrote:
While that would normally be a stupid question this debate has forged well into that territory.

You took it there. You have only yourself to blame.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 30-04-2020 04:04
30-04-2020 04:12
James___
★★★★★
(3437)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote: Plenty of things in this world are 100%.
Name one.

A hydrogen atom.
Your sentence would need to include "100%" to be responsive IBD.

A hydrogen atom 100% exists. It will behave like a hydrogen atom 100%. There. Satisfied?

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Plenty of things in this world are 100%.
Name one.

Physical death.
Watching a bit too much TRUE BLOOD?

How could you possibly know that?

Have you ever seen death? It's rather final. It's a 100% chance that you will suffer death.
tmiddles wrote:
But setting that aside I see you can't find anything remotely similar the efficacy of a protective measure or anything related to repeated events and populations.

* masks don't stop viruses.
* 6 feet doesn't stop viruses.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
RQAA is not a game. It is your preferred mantra.
? I don't say RQAA, you do.

Because you keep asking the same questions over and over even though they've already been answered. It's moronic to do that.
tmiddles wrote:
I answer questions in a debate, I don't duck them.
Into the Night wrote:
Lie. You still have not answered IBdaMann's questions put to you.
Not true. What question? Let me guess: RQAA

LAME!!

RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
3M bucko is wrong. 3M bucko, like you, is denying mathematics.
So you are saying your argument is BASED on 3Ms representations for the N95 and, simultaneously, 3M is wrong in their literature on the N95 where is contradicts you?

No, you are misrepresenting 3M literature, the same way you misrepresent a lot of things.
tmiddles wrote:
Seriously?

HarveyH55 wrote:
Read the label on the chair, it clearly will state 'MAXIMUM',
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:Those things do no good in situations beyond their specs.
A chair that has a spec of 300lbs works great for the typical person, but it will not work for the 500lb lard ass. ...
Specs are minimums dude.

No they aren't.
Tell that to the in house counsel for any manfucturer.

Let me guess you think that if a 301lbs person sits in a chair rated at 300lbs it will break every time?

HarveyH55 wrote:ort of like wearing a seat belt in your car, will prevent/reduce injury in some accidents, but often don't make a whole lot of difference.
So do you wear a seatbelt? Do you consider it wise?

Seat belts are the best protection in a car or aircraft. Buses and boats not so much.
tmiddles wrote:
While that would normally be a stupid question this debate has forged well into that territory.

You took it there. You have only yourself to blame.


get with the times dude. Native Americans are dead. You support the Mexican?
I'd say they're the "New American" but they're not the China man like Bruce Lee.
And the negro don't like the white or the Mexican let alone the Asian man.
We need to look out for our own kind. We need an identity of who we are. We're not them but we are "us" but who are we that don't like "them" who are not "us" and who are "us" that don't like them?
As some in here say, if nothing is not defined then we are not "is". And we cannot be is without definition.

I'm not one of you guy and never will be. But what does it take to belong to a social group like yours? It won't happen.
Edited on 30-04-2020 04:15
30-04-2020 17:03
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
So wearing an N95 mask as a method of protection against a virus is not different than using the following for protection:

A virus is smaller than the specs of an N95 mask. An N95 mask won't stop a virus.

tmiddles wrote:
Seat belts

Generally work quite well (in cars, anyway).

tmiddles wrote:
Bullet Proof vests

... will not necessarily stop a bullet (let alone a barrage of bullets). Depends on the specs of the vest, the bullet, the gun, range of fire, etc...

tmiddles wrote:
A military

... generally serves a country quite well. For personal protection purposes, I would just use a gun.

tmiddles wrote:
Police

For personal protection purposes, I would just use a gun.

tmiddles wrote:
Maintaining sanitary conditions

Yes, I clean surfaces from time to time. I wash my hands after I've used the bathroom, handled raw meat, before I eat, etc...

tmiddles wrote:
and Just about ANYTHING in the real world we do for our own welfare.

Because it's never 100% but that doesn't mean there is no point in doing it.

Plenty of things are 100%. You've already been given two examples (and you only asked for one). Want a third one?? Okay, brace yourself now... drum roll please....


Objective truth.
30-04-2020 22:54
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Seat belts

Generally work quite well (in cars, anyway).

So if I said:
"A seat belt won't save your life if you are in an accident." would that be a true statement?
01-05-2020 00:12
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Seat belts

Generally work quite well (in cars, anyway).

So if I said:
"A seat belt won't save your life if you are in an accident." would that be a true statement?

It depends.

There are an insane amount of variables that go into any particular accident. In certain accidents, the seat belt will save your life. In certain accidents, the seat belt will reduce injury. In certain accidents, the seat belt will kill you. In certain accidents, the seat belt will increase injury. In certain accidents, there will be negligible to no difference either way.
01-05-2020 00:16
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Seat belts

Generally work quite well (in cars, anyway).

So if I said:
"A seat belt won't save your life if you are in an accident." would that be a true statement?

It depends.

There are an insane amount of variables that go into any particular accident. In certain accidents, the seat belt will save your life. In certain accidents, the seat belt will reduce injury. In certain accidents, the seat belt will kill you. In certain accidents, the seat belt will increase injury. In certain accidents, there will be negligible to no difference either way.


Well said.

So public policy should be that seat belts are to be worn while driving (as I see it at least).

The exact same situation plays out for the policies aimed at slowing the spread of a virus (the "flatten the curve" we hear so much about).

Do they work 100% of the time? Nope
Are they effective? Often
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