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27-12-2021 19:30
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
Into the Night wrote:

No. Your thymus is not destroyed by neither covid19 nor your immune system. Neither are any T cells.
Spongy Iris wrote:
"Interleukin (IL)-6 is a pleiotropic, proinflammatory cytokine produced by a variety of cell types, including lymphocytes, monocytes, and fibroblasts. Infection by SARS-CoV induces a dose-dependent production of IL-6 from bronchial epithelial cells. COVID-19-associated systemic inflammation and hypoxemic respiratory failure can be associated with heightened cytokine release, as indicated by elevated blood levels of IL-6, C-reactive protein (CRP), D-dimer, and ferritin."

"IL-6 is responsible for stimulating acute phase protein synthesis, as well as the production of neutrophils in the bone marrow. It supports the growth of B cells and is antagonistic to regulatory T cells."

T cells are not 'regulatory'.
Spongy Iris wrote:
As earlier cited research indicates, zinc can help regenerate your thymus.

Nothing can regenerate your thymus, nor is it necessary.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Although it is doubtful zinc can shield it from damage, or reduce the severity of an infection, if your thymus is at least in better shape, it might be able to sustain a hit more effectively.

Your thymus doesn't take a hit from covid19. It does not attack the thymus.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Zinc might also help to prevent declining lymphocyte production in aging adults.

What declining lymphocyte production?

Obviously, you are selling zinc supplements, or fully believe the health supplement crap. That stuff WILL mess you up, dude.


The damage that overproduction of IL-6 can do to your vital organs, and it's antagonistic nature to T cell production, is pretty well established. Covid 19 induces the over production of IL 6.

It is also established that your thymus needs zinc, and your thymus shrinks with age, and your body's lymphocyte production declines with age.

Therefore it makes sense to try to optimize zinc consumption so you are in better shape to cope with infection and old age. This is probably not much of a concern for healthy young people, but might be something older people will consider.

There is a risk of overdose from zinc.

"Health authorities have set the tolerable upper intake level (UL) for zinc at 40 mg per day for adults. The UL is the highest recommended daily amount of a nutrient. For most people, this amount is unlikely to cause negative side effects"

IMO that is still probably too high a dose to take daily, and taking a massive boost of zinc from a supplement probably shouldn't be done as a daily routine. Long term daily consumption of zinc supplements is certain to interfere with your ability to absorb copper.

Always a challenge to find the right balance.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/zinc-overdose-symptoms


27-12-2021 20:22
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

No. Your thymus is not destroyed by neither covid19 nor your immune system. Neither are any T cells.
Spongy Iris wrote:
"Interleukin (IL)-6 is a pleiotropic, proinflammatory cytokine produced by a variety of cell types, including lymphocytes, monocytes, and fibroblasts. Infection by SARS-CoV induces a dose-dependent production of IL-6 from bronchial epithelial cells. COVID-19-associated systemic inflammation and hypoxemic respiratory failure can be associated with heightened cytokine release, as indicated by elevated blood levels of IL-6, C-reactive protein (CRP), D-dimer, and ferritin."

"IL-6 is responsible for stimulating acute phase protein synthesis, as well as the production of neutrophils in the bone marrow. It supports the growth of B cells and is antagonistic to regulatory T cells."

T cells are not 'regulatory'.
Spongy Iris wrote:
As earlier cited research indicates, zinc can help regenerate your thymus.

Nothing can regenerate your thymus, nor is it necessary.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Although it is doubtful zinc can shield it from damage, or reduce the severity of an infection, if your thymus is at least in better shape, it might be able to sustain a hit more effectively.

Your thymus doesn't take a hit from covid19. It does not attack the thymus.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Zinc might also help to prevent declining lymphocyte production in aging adults.

What declining lymphocyte production?

Obviously, you are selling zinc supplements, or fully believe the health supplement crap. That stuff WILL mess you up, dude.


The damage that overproduction of IL-6 can do to your vital organs, and it's antagonistic nature to T cell production, is pretty well established. Covid 19 induces the over production of IL 6.

There is no 'overproduction'.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It is also established that your thymus needs zinc, and your thymus shrinks with age, and your body's lymphocyte production declines with age.

There is essentially no thymus with age. It's not needed.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Therefore it makes sense to try to optimize zinc consumption so you are in better shape to cope with infection and old age. This is probably not much of a concern for healthy young people, but might be something older people will consider.

No, it doesn't. All the zinc you need comes in your food already.
Spongy Iris wrote:
There is a risk of overdose from zinc.

"Health authorities have set the tolerable upper intake level (UL) for zinc at 40 mg per day for adults. The UL is the highest recommended daily amount of a nutrient. For most people, this amount is unlikely to cause negative side effects"

IMO that is still probably too high a dose to take daily, and taking a massive boost of zinc from a supplement probably shouldn't be done as a daily routine. Long term daily consumption of zinc supplements is certain to interfere with your ability to absorb copper.

Always a challenge to find the right balance.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/zinc-overdose-symptoms

You don't need to 'find the right balance'. That's automatic.
Stay off the health supplements, dude. That stuff WILL mess you up.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 27-12-2021 20:23
27-12-2021 20:37
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
And vivid is surging in Florida according to their own news outlet Florida Today.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-surge-florida-cases-rise-141949592.html

Interestingly enough, they say those vaccinated will have milder symptoms. So there's some built in protection which keeps it from getting worse. Anyway, that's what the Miami Herald reported.
Edited on 27-12-2021 20:42
27-12-2021 20:54
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
Parrot,

You obviously need your thymus gland if you want to survive in the long run.

"A 2016 study indicated a possible association between thymectomy and thyroid disease. It followed 11 children who'd undergone thymectomy along with cardiac surgery as infants. The children were examined before the operation, 18 months after the operation, and at 18 years of age to examine the immunological and clinical effects of having had their thymus removed.

The researchers found that these children had a greatly altered immune system at 18 years of age, comparable, in fact, to the immune system of someone in their 60s or 70s, with a low number of T-cells."

https://www.verywellhealth.com/thyroid-disease-after-thymus-removal-4159741

"Food sources high in zinc include red meat, poultry, seafood, whole grains and fortified cereals. Oysters contain the highest amount, with up to 493% of the daily value in a 3-ounce (85-gram) serving."

As previously stated, zinc supplementation did regrow the thymus glands in old mice.

You seem to be well aware that covid 19 induces excessive production of IL-6. And IL-6 is antagonistic to T cells.

You are quibbling about my use of the word "over production." If it inflames or damages your vital organs such as lungs, thymus, and heart, then I'd say, yes it is over production.



Edited on 27-12-2021 21:09
27-12-2021 23:12
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
Just an FYI:
The T Cell:
T-cells mature in the thymus gland or in the lymph nodes. Since the thymus is only 10-15% functional in the adult, the lymph nodes take on greater importance in the maturation process.


Thymus Gland: T Cells migrating to the Thymus gland from the bone marrow will undergo a process of selection to eliminate not only the weakest cells, but also those so strong that they may attack healthy tissue cells (autoimmunity). Cells educated in the Thymus generally are either Helper (CD4+) or Suppressor/Cytotoxic (CD8+) cells. Other types of T-helper cells include T-helper 17, T regulatory cells, and T follicular helper cells.

Lymph Node: Naïve T cells in the paracortex of the lymph node may be activated by dendritic cells that have internalized and processed pathogenic antigens that made their way to the lymph node via lymphatic drainage from the site of infection or inflammation; or, by dendritic cells that have migrated to the lymph node from the site of infection. Once activated, T cells undergo clonal expansion and differentiate into functional effector cells (short-lived) or memory effector cells (long-lived). Functional effector cells migrate to the site of infection or inflammation where they orchestrate T helper (CD4+) or T cytotoxic/suppressor (CD8+) functions to combat pathogens. Memory cells may enter the circulation or healthy tissue sites, or remain in the lymph node.
27-12-2021 23:14
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
dendritic cell
Listen to pronunciation
(den-DRIH-tik sel)
A special type of immune cell that is found in tissues, such as the skin, and boosts immune responses by showing antigens on its surface to other cells of the immune system. A dendritic cell is a type of phagocyte and a type of antigen-presenting cell (APC).
27-12-2021 23:16
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
Does vivid prevent infected cells from drawing into lymph nodes? This seems to be how immature T-cells are "taught " how to function. Does vivid hinder how T-cells mature?
This is in adults.

p.s., T-cells are identified by where they mature.
Thymocyte = thymus
lymphocyte = lymph node/gland
Edited on 27-12-2021 23:21
27-12-2021 23:19
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(737)
Stay off the health supplements, dude. That stuff WILL mess you up.


I played with iodine supplementation to boost thyroid about 5 years ago and I ended up in the straight jacket eventually. I am not sure that the iodine was the main cause for the manic episode but I think it somewhat triggered it. I used Lugols iodine drops in the water and drank it in the morning and in the evening. I read from the iodine supplementation forums that it is safe to take even up to 50 drops of iodine per day and it is very safe.
It seemed to work at the beginning.I started to feel quite amazing . My confidence started to rise and I honestly thought that I have found a miracle cure. Unfortunately things went downhill pretty soon. I went completely manic and also started to hallucinate. For example I booked a presidential suite for 600 dollars, went up to see how it looks, took a shit and then I left and never returned.
Nowadays I have ditched all the supplementation. I lately ditched even vitamin C . It did not help me to get rid of catching common colds and it does not cure it faster .
28-12-2021 01:40
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10662)
Spongy Iris wrote:The damage that overproduction of IL-6 can do to your vital organs, and it's antagonistic nature to T cell production, is pretty well established.

OVER-production of anything is, by definition, bad.

You still need to show a direct causal chain from COVID/vaccines to diminished immunity. You keep avoiding this.

Hint: Start with COVID and/or vaccines, and with a continuous chain of direct cause->effect relationships end with diminished immunity.

Spongy Iris wrote: Covid 19 induces the over production of IL 6.

... or it doesn't.

I'm going with "it doesn't." You certainly haven't shown that it does.

Spongy Iris wrote:It is also established that your thymus needs zinc,

Irrelevant. The thymus needs many things, just like all glands and organs. Until you provide a complete causal chain, this statement is simply random trivia.

Spongy Iris wrote: ... and your thymus shrinks with age, and your body's lymphocyte production declines with age.

Yes. Did you have a complete causal chain into which you wanted to incorporate this statement?

Spongy Iris wrote:Therefore it makes sense to try to optimize zinc consumption so you are in better shape to cope with infection and old age.

You do not have control over this. Your body automatically extracts zinc from your food and sends the right amount to where it is needed.

Did you seriously think you could override your body's natural processes?

Spongy Iris wrote:There is a risk of overdose from zinc.

There is negligible risk of zinc overdose if one is not taking zinc supplements.

Spongy Iris wrote:"A 2016 study indicated a possible association between thymectomy and thyroid disease.

Totally vague and not really plausible, just the right stuff to form an appeal for an expanded research budget.

Spongy Iris wrote: It followed 11 children who'd undergone thymectomy along with cardiac surgery as infants.

Why didn't the study conclude a "possible association" between infant cardiac surgery and thyroid disease?

Spongy Iris wrote:As previously stated, zinc supplementation did regrow the thymus glands in old mice.

... because lab mice don't regularly get totally balanced diets insomuch as they get the cheapest diets that won't affect lab tests since quality of life is not a lab tech's goal for the lab mice. I can see lab mice requiring zinc supplements for tests that require mice to have proper zinc levels.

Spongy Iris wrote:You seem to be well aware that covid 19 induces excessive production of IL-6.

I don't recall anyone except you making this unsupported claim.

Spongy Iris wrote:If it inflames or damages your vital organs such as lungs, thymus, and heart, then I'd say, yes it is over production.

You simply have never shown that any of this happens as a direct result of COVID or vaccines.
28-12-2021 02:15
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3908)
We live in a filthy world. There are thousands of infectious viruses and bacteria around us all the time. They don't line up. and take turns infecting us. We feel no symptoms for most of them since our bodies have been handling them since we were born. Just normal, daily business, our bodies take care of 24/7. Of course, we need to stay healthy and active, which isn't always convenient, or fun.

I doubt the virus, or the vaccine is causing any unusual damage, most people don't go through many times in their lives. When we feel 'sick', it's your body telling you their is a problem, and you need to pay attention. It's like when you get injured, you feel pain. It tells you where you got injured, and pay some attention to it, so you aren't making it worse. Takes time to heal, sometimes some special attention needed to help in the process. Most people aren't taught to read what the body is trying to tell them, just go see a doctor, he'll give you a pill. Whether you need it or not. Doctors cannot heal anybody. That's each individuals task in life. Our bodies do all healing work, A doctor can assist you in your healing. Help you understand what your body is trying to tell you it needs. Some doctors find it profitable to sell a 'quick-fix', or believe the paper on the wall grants them god-like powers. Most just get bored, and want to experiment...
28-12-2021 03:25
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
IBdaMann wrote:


You still need to show a direct causal chain from COVID/vaccines to diminished immunity. You keep avoiding this.

Hint: Start with COVID and/or vaccines, and with a continuous chain of direct cause->effect relationships end with diminished immunity.

You do not have control over this. Your body automatically extracts zinc from your food and sends the right amount to where it is needed.


The evidence has been cited. Please pay attention this time

"Interleukin (IL)-6 is a pleiotropic, proinflammatory cytokine produced by a variety of cell types, including lymphocytes, monocytes, and fibroblasts. Infection by SARS-CoV induces a dose-dependent production of IL-6 from bronchial epithelial cells. COVID-19-associated systemic inflammation and hypoxemic respiratory failure can be associated with heightened cytokine release, as indicated by elevated blood levels of IL-6, C-reactive protein (CRP), D-dimer, and ferritin."

"IL-6 is responsible for stimulating acute phase protein synthesis, as well as the production of neutrophils in the bone marrow. It supports the growth of B cells and is antagonistic to suppressor T cells."

"suppressor T cells, are a subpopulation of T cells that modulate the immune system, maintain tolerance to self-antigens, and prevent autoimmune disease."

Most people hospitalized with COVID 19 have low lymphocytes.

You may think it's just a coincidence that when people have covid 19 they have elevated il-6, and low lymphocyte counts. Sounds like implausible denial on your part.

There are no studies published that I can find where people are deliberately infected, and there blood and organs can be immediately monitored and tested 24/7 for 6 months using advanced satellite technology! You should probably accept the existing evidence instead of proudly sticking your head in the sand.

You're being like tmiddles. You ask a question. It is answered. Then you ignore the answer and ask the same question again.

Also...

Why else would the thymus of everybody start to shrink after puberty, if not for zinc deficiency? It's not like most people are eating raw oysters and beef carpaccio every week or 2... I don't know why not... Mmmm



Edited on 28-12-2021 03:41
28-12-2021 04:47
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10662)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:You still need to show a direct causal chain from COVID/vaccines to diminished immunity. You keep avoiding this.

Hint: Start with COVID and/or vaccines, and with a continuous chain of direct cause->effect relationships end with diminished immunity.
The evidence has been cited. Please pay attention this time

"Interleukin (IL)-6 is a pleiotropic, proinflammatory cytokine .... blah, blah, blah

The requirements have been repeatedly provided to you. Please pay attention this time.

Start with COVID and/or vaccines

You do know what "Start with" means, don't you? If you are starting with "Interleukin" then you aren't starting with COVID and/or vaccines now, are you?

You need to establish a causal chain ... starting with COVID and/or vaccines

Because you aren't that swift on the uptake, I'll spell the rest of it out for you. The end of the causal chain must be "diminished immunity"

So, for your argument "COVID and/or vaccines diminish immunity" to have any merit with rational adults, you must establish your causal chain starting with COVID and/or vaccines ... and then ending in "diminished immunity."

I'll help you out. The first words of your post will read:

COVID (and/or vaccines) directly cause [insert direct effect here].
This, in turn, directly causes [insert next direct effect here]
This, in turn, directly causes [insert next direct effect here]
This, in turn, directly causes [insert next direct effect here]
This, in turn, directly causes [insert next direct effect here]
...
This, in turn, directly causes [insert next direct effect here]
This, in turn, directly results in diminished immunity.

PDQ. Easy-Peezy-Lemon-Squeezy. Piece of cake. A walk in the park. Falling off a log. Like eating peanut butter chicken. Like fitting a camel through the main gate.

It's too easy.

Recap:

Start with COVID and/or vaccines

.
28-12-2021 04:55
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:You still need to show a direct causal chain from COVID/vaccines to diminished immunity. You keep avoiding this.

Hint: Start with COVID and/or vaccines, and with a continuous chain of direct cause->effect relationships end with diminished immunity.
The evidence has been cited. Please pay attention this time

"Interleukin (IL)-6 is a pleiotropic, proinflammatory cytokine .... blah, blah, blah

The requirements have been repeatedly provided to you. Please pay attention this time.

Start with COVID and/or vaccines

You do know what "Start with" means, don't you? If you are starting with "Interleukin" then you aren't starting with COVID and/or vaccines now, are you?

You need to establish a causal chain ... starting with COVID and/or vaccines

Because you aren't that swift on the uptake, I'll spell the rest of it out for you. The end of the causal chain must be "diminished immunity"

So, for your argument "COVID and/or vaccines diminish immunity" to have any merit with rational adults, you must establish your causal chain starting with COVID and/or vaccines ... and then ending in "diminished immunity."

I'll help you out. The first words of your post will read:

COVID (and/or vaccines) directly cause [insert direct effect here].
This, in turn, directly causes [insert next direct effect here]
This, in turn, directly causes [insert next direct effect here]
This, in turn, directly causes [insert next direct effect here]
This, in turn, directly causes [insert next direct effect here]
...
This, in turn, directly causes [insert next direct effect here]
This, in turn, directly results in diminished immunity.

PDQ. Easy-Peezy-Lemon-Squeezy. Piece of cake. A walk in the park. Falling off a log. Like eating peanut butter chicken. Like fitting a camel through the main gate.

It's too easy.

Recap:

Start with COVID and/or vaccines

.


Since you apparently need it to be dumbed down even further.

1. People go to hospital and test positive for COVID
2. Blood tests reveal these people, more often than not, have high levels of IL-6, and low levels of lymphocytes.

There you go. Let's see if you can understand 2 bullet points...


28-12-2021 04:59
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
IBdaMann wrote:

Easy-Peezy-Lemon-Squeezy.

.


https://youtu.be/aODV9Vi8Gds


28-12-2021 05:31
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10662)
Spongy Iris wrote:
1. People go to hospital and test positive for COVID
2. Blood tests reveal these people, more often than not, have high levels of IL-6, and low levels of lymphocytes.

Undefined "high levels" of IL-6

Regardless, you defeat your own argument. You affirm that in some cases COVID patients do not have "high levels" of IL-6, ergo COVID is not what was causing the "high levels" of IL-6 in the people who had them, that it must have been something else.

There you go. Let's see if you can understand your own argument.

RECAP:

COVID does not cause "high levels" of IL-6. Something else does. I don't care what that something else is, just that it isn't COVID and/or vaccines.

ERGO:

Not only did you fail to construct a valid causal chain from "COVID and/or vaccines" to "diminished immunity" ... but you courteously provided what will be the falsifying case for your argument when you finally get around to providing your valid causal chain. Thank you. You saved me a lot of time.
28-12-2021 05:36
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10662)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Easy-Peezy-Lemon-Squeezy.
https://youtu.be/aODV9Vi8Gds


Thank you. Use THIS ONE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aODV9Vi8Gds&t=27s
28-12-2021 06:56
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
1. People go to hospital and test positive for COVID
2. Blood tests reveal these people, more often than not, have high levels of IL-6, and low levels of lymphocytes.

Undefined "high levels" of IL-6

Regardless, you defeat your own argument. You affirm that in some cases COVID patients do not have "high levels" of IL-6, ergo COVID is not what was causing the "high levels" of IL-6 in the people who had them, that it must have been something else.

There you go. Let's see if you can understand your own argument.

RECAP:

COVID does not cause "high levels" of IL-6. Something else does. I don't care what that something else is, just that it isn't COVID and/or vaccines.

ERGO:

Not only did you fail to construct a valid causal chain from "COVID and/or vaccines" to "diminished immunity" ... but you courteously provided what will be the falsifying case for your argument when you finally get around to providing your valid causal chain. Thank you. You saved me a lot of time.


There is a strong correlation between IL-6 level and severity of COVID-19.

Drastically elevated IL-6 levels (> 100 pg/ml), were closely associated with detectable serum SARS-CoV-2 viral load.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEiAjFMiudC2T9MHJXHrARQGAuEtRmMiyH3ZeMKvNj_r1APgtyJ9CfWTRsF0zLW34jSsuRPptbJ7iFWMVUI3cw1doMM2iYCgelXDESDFOssyLgSj7dGl2a1rRbcBm5cOaTlwEcNyqHiixOcNTT5CXgghNHeaVBGC7WtmsVdZq1W_dV1ipTqA3_Do3QWhVg=w640-h624

I know your argument that correlation is not causation. A cop out.

Or maybe you will want to blame all covid deaths on pneumonia, or sepsis, or arthtritis, etc. Another cop out.



Edited on 28-12-2021 06:57
28-12-2021 08:12
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3908)
How many people infected with covid, seek medical attention? For over 90% of the cases, it's just a mild case of the sniffles. Some are a little more severe, and spend a lot of their quarantine time in bed. Not many are severe enough to require a doctor. Only the most severe cases, are going anywhere a needle for a blood test. Your theory might apply to the most severe cases of covid, but they tend to also have an assortment of other medical issues, complicated by covid infection. They also tend to be on various maintenance medications. The studies you cite, are biased by the 'subjects', because the have too many other issues, that's going to mess up any results. No way to say it's just covid, or the vaccines. he small samples, tend to point out that they cherry picked the cases, to fit their pre conceived conclusions.

There are over 50 million positive test results. 200 million people got vaccinated. Most aren't having any serious medical difficulties from their experience. Change your underwear, and get over it...
28-12-2021 19:16
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(2809)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
1. People go to hospital and test positive for COVID
2. Blood tests reveal these people, more often than not, have high levels of IL-6, and low levels of lymphocytes.

Undefined "high levels" of IL-6

Regardless, you defeat your own argument. You affirm that in some cases COVID patients do not have "high levels" of IL-6, ergo COVID is not what was causing the "high levels" of IL-6 in the people who had them, that it must have been something else.

There you go. Let's see if you can understand your own argument.

RECAP:

COVID does not cause "high levels" of IL-6. Something else does. I don't care what that something else is, just that it isn't COVID and/or vaccines.

ERGO:

Not only did you fail to construct a valid causal chain from "COVID and/or vaccines" to "diminished immunity" ... but you courteously provided what will be the falsifying case for your argument when you finally get around to providing your valid causal chain. Thank you. You saved me a lot of time.


There is a strong correlation between IL-6 level and severity of COVID-19.

Drastically elevated IL-6 levels (> 100 pg/ml), were closely associated with detectable serum SARS-CoV-2 viral load.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEiAjFMiudC2T9MHJXHrARQGAuEtRmMiyH3ZeMKvNj_r1APgtyJ9CfWTRsF0zLW34jSsuRPptbJ7iFWMVUI3cw1doMM2iYCgelXDESDFOssyLgSj7dGl2a1rRbcBm5cOaTlwEcNyqHiixOcNTT5CXgghNHeaVBGC7WtmsVdZq1W_dV1ipTqA3_Do3QWhVg=w640-h624

I know your argument that correlation is not causation. A cop out.

Or maybe you will want to blame all covid deaths on pneumonia, or sepsis, or arthtritis, etc. Another cop out.

Logic is not a cop out.
28-12-2021 20:40
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Parrot,

You obviously need your thymus gland if you want to survive in the long run.

Is that why it basically turns to fat when you are an adult?
Spongy Iris wrote:
"A 2016 study indicated a possible association between thymectomy and thyroid disease. It followed 11 children who'd undergone thymectomy along with cardiac surgery as infants. The children were examined before the operation, 18 months after the operation, and at 18 years of age to examine the immunological and clinical effects of having had their thymus removed.

The researchers found that these children had a greatly altered immune system at 18 years of age, comparable, in fact, to the immune system of someone in their 60s or 70s, with a low number of T-cells."

https://www.verywellhealth.com/thyroid-disease-after-thymus-removal-4159741

I am not a child. False equivalence fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
"Food sources high in zinc include red meat, poultry, seafood, whole grains and fortified cereals. Oysters contain the highest amount, with up to 493% of the daily value in a 3-ounce (85-gram) serving."

Yes. So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
As previously stated, zinc supplementation did regrow the thymus glands in old mice.

Stay off the 'health' supplements, dude. They WILL mess you up.
Spongy Iris wrote:
You seem to be well aware that covid 19 induces excessive production of IL-6. And IL-6 is antagonistic to T cells.

You don't get to put words in my mouth or speak for me. You only get to speak for yourself. Word stuffing.
Spongy Iris wrote:
You are quibbling about my use of the word "over production."

Yes. Words mean things.
Spongy Iris wrote:
If it inflames or damages your vital organs such as lungs, thymus, and heart, then I'd say, yes it is over production.

There is no over production.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
28-12-2021 20:42
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
James___ wrote:
Just an FYI:
The T Cell:
T-cells mature in the thymus gland or in the lymph nodes. Since the thymus is only 10-15% functional in the adult, the lymph nodes take on greater importance in the maturation process.


Thymus Gland: T Cells migrating to the Thymus gland from the bone marrow will undergo a process of selection to eliminate not only the weakest cells, but also those so strong that they may attack healthy tissue cells (autoimmunity). Cells educated in the Thymus generally are either Helper (CD4+) or Suppressor/Cytotoxic (CD8+) cells. Other types of T-helper cells include T-helper 17, T regulatory cells, and T follicular helper cells.

Lymph Node: Naïve T cells in the paracortex of the lymph node may be activated by dendritic cells that have internalized and processed pathogenic antigens that made their way to the lymph node via lymphatic drainage from the site of infection or inflammation; or, by dendritic cells that have migrated to the lymph node from the site of infection. Once activated, T cells undergo clonal expansion and differentiate into functional effector cells (short-lived) or memory effector cells (long-lived). Functional effector cells migrate to the site of infection or inflammation where they orchestrate T helper (CD4+) or T cytotoxic/suppressor (CD8+) functions to combat pathogens. Memory cells may enter the circulation or healthy tissue sites, or remain in the lymph node.

T cells are not created in bone marrow or in the thymus. They are created in the lymphatic system.

Buzzword fallacies. Jamesbabble.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
28-12-2021 20:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
Xadoman wrote:
Stay off the health supplements, dude. That stuff WILL mess you up.


I played with iodine supplementation to boost thyroid about 5 years ago and I ended up in the straight jacket eventually. I am not sure that the iodine was the main cause for the manic episode but I think it somewhat triggered it. I used Lugols iodine drops in the water and drank it in the morning and in the evening. I read from the iodine supplementation forums that it is safe to take even up to 50 drops of iodine per day and it is very safe.
It seemed to work at the beginning.I started to feel quite amazing . My confidence started to rise and I honestly thought that I have found a miracle cure. Unfortunately things went downhill pretty soon. I went completely manic and also started to hallucinate. For example I booked a presidential suite for 600 dollars, went up to see how it looks, took a shit and then I left and never returned.
Nowadays I have ditched all the supplementation. I lately ditched even vitamin C . It did not help me to get rid of catching common colds and it does not cure it faster .

That fits with the symptoms of long term overexposure to iodine.

At least you learned. The hard way, but you learned.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
28-12-2021 20:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
HarveyH55 wrote:
We live in a filthy world. There are thousands of infectious viruses and bacteria around us all the time. They don't line up. and take turns infecting us. We feel no symptoms for most of them since our bodies have been handling them since we were born. Just normal, daily business, our bodies take care of 24/7. Of course, we need to stay healthy and active, which isn't always convenient, or fun.

I doubt the virus, or the vaccine is causing any unusual damage, most people don't go through many times in their lives. When we feel 'sick', it's your body telling you their is a problem, and you need to pay attention. It's like when you get injured, you feel pain. It tells you where you got injured, and pay some attention to it, so you aren't making it worse. Takes time to heal, sometimes some special attention needed to help in the process. Most people aren't taught to read what the body is trying to tell them, just go see a doctor, he'll give you a pill. Whether you need it or not. Doctors cannot heal anybody. That's each individuals task in life. Our bodies do all healing work, A doctor can assist you in your healing. Help you understand what your body is trying to tell you it needs. Some doctors find it profitable to sell a 'quick-fix', or believe the paper on the wall grants them god-like powers. Most just get bored, and want to experiment...


Described well. Some doctors just want to make money and provide no useful treatment or even harmful treatment (psychoquacks, chiropractors, and 'wholistic health' types for example.

Others, that are actually there to help you, fully depend on the body to heal itself. Even surgeons depend on that. They may be able to correct something where the body is having a bit of trouble, but in the end thee body heals itself.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 28-12-2021 20:51
28-12-2021 20:56
keepit
★★★★★
(2448)
itn,
T cells are created from a progenitor in the BONE MARROW and then migrate to the thymus where they are "educated" and regulated. Check with google if you don't believe me or tell us your source of information.
Edited on 28-12-2021 20:58
28-12-2021 20:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
keepit wrote:
itn,
T cells are created from a progenitor in the BONE MARROW and then migrate to the thymus where they are "educated". Check with google if you don't believe me or tell us your source of information.


Google is not a source. Google is not God. It's time to tighten your C clamp again.

WRONG. T cells are created in the lymphatic system. When the thymus is active, they can mature in there, but they can also mature in the lymphatic system itself. The 'T' stands for thymus, you see.

B cells are created in bone marrow. The 'B' stands for bone, you see.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 28-12-2021 21:00
28-12-2021 21:00
keepit
★★★★★
(2448)
Your info is wrong. Where did you get it?
28-12-2021 21:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
keepit wrote:
Your info is wrong. Where did you get it?

Maybe you should go read a human biology textbook where it discusses the immune system and how it works.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
28-12-2021 21:22
keepit
★★★★★
(2448)
Your info is wrong. Where did you get it.
T cells are generated from progenitor cell which come from the bone marrow.
B cells are generated in the bone marrow but so are tcells which come from progenitor cells.
Edited on 28-12-2021 21:24
28-12-2021 22:50
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
Deleted post to keepit



Edited on 28-12-2021 22:51
28-12-2021 23:02
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
gfm7175 wrote:
Logic is not a cop out.


At a bare minimum, logic should require you to pay lip service to the convincing correlations I have illustrated, to say further research is warranted to confirm causation.

Your lack of logic is on brazen display here.

You are willing to lose your job to avoid the Covid 19 vaccine.

But then you say Covid 19 is not a risk.

If COVID 19 is not a risk, then why do you care about getting vaccinated?



Edited on 28-12-2021 23:03
28-12-2021 23:41
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(2809)
Spongy Iris wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Logic is not a cop out.


At a bare minimum, logic should require you to pay lip service to the convincing correlations I have illustrated,

I noticed your goalpost shift from what was a 'causation' claim to what is now a 'correlation' claim. Are you now making a correlation claim and sticking with that??

Spongy Iris wrote:
to say further research is warranted to confirm causation.

No "further research" is necessary. One lone example to the contrary is all that is needed to falsify the causation theory.

Spongy Iris wrote:
Your lack of logic is on brazen display here.

This is your issue, not mine.

Spongy Iris wrote:
You are willing to lose your job to avoid the Covid 19 vaccine.

Correct. I will not be coerced or forced into taking a jab that I don't wish to take.

Many other people have already made that same decision of which I have thankfully not been forced to make as of yet.

Spongy Iris wrote:
But then you say Covid 19 is not a risk.

Idk what "statement of mine" you are referring to. COVID-19 is a rather mild virus, not any more serious than a common flu virus is. I see no reason to get a vaccination for it.

Spongy Iris wrote:
If COVID 19 is not a risk, then why do you care about getting vaccinated?

An odd question, seeing as COVID-19 is not a COVID-19 vaccine.
28-12-2021 23:52
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
gfm7175 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Logic is not a cop out.


At a bare minimum, logic should require you to pay lip service to the convincing correlations I have illustrated,

I noticed your goalpost shift from what was a 'causation' claim to what is now a 'correlation' claim. Are you now making a correlation claim and sticking with that??

Spongy Iris wrote:
to say further research is warranted to confirm causation.

No "further research" is necessary. One lone example to the contrary is all that is needed to falsify the causation theory.

Spongy Iris wrote:
Your lack of logic is on brazen display here.

This is your issue, not mine.

Spongy Iris wrote:
You are willing to lose your job to avoid the Covid 19 vaccine.

Correct. I will not be coerced or forced into taking a jab that I don't wish to take.

Many other people have already made that same decision of which I have thankfully not been forced to make as of yet.

Spongy Iris wrote:
But then you say Covid 19 is not a risk.

Idk what "statement of mine" you are referring to. COVID-19 is a rather mild virus, not any more serious than a common flu virus is. I see no reason to get a vaccination for it.

Spongy Iris wrote:
If COVID 19 is not a risk, then why do you care about getting vaccinated?

An odd question, seeing as COVID-19 is not a COVID-19 vaccine.


I think it is causation, because there is an abundance of correlation you can find in a multitude of studies.

I'm very certain causation could be proved with further study.

Going by your logic, nothing is true, everything is false, and you are willing to lose your livelihood over nothing.

I'm done replying in this thread. I just had to point out your hypocrisy and absurdity.


29-12-2021 00:03
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(2809)
Spongy Iris wrote:
I think it is causation, because there is an abundance of correlation you can find in a multitude of studies.

Correlation is not causation.

Spongy Iris wrote:
I'm very certain causation could be proved with further study.

Causation has already been falsified.

Spongy Iris wrote:
Going by your logic, nothing is true, everything is false,

2+2=4 is true. Boys are different than girls is true.
2+2=3 is false. Boys are identical to girls is false.

Spongy Iris wrote:
and you are willing to lose your livelihood over nothing.

My freedom and bodily autonomy is not "nothing". And hopefully I would be able to get a different job or provide for myself in another way.

Spongy Iris wrote:
I'm done replying in this thread.

I doubt it.

Spongy Iris wrote:
I just had to point out your hypocrisy and absurdity.

What hypocrisy?? The only absurdity I've seen in this thread as of lately has come from you.
29-12-2021 01:10
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
gfm7175 wrote:

Spongy Iris wrote:
Going by your logic, nothing is true, everything is false,

2+2=4 is true. Boys are different than girls is true.
2+2=3 is false. Boys are identical to girls is false.





2 + 2 = 11 using the Trinity math based on 3.
An example is 1,2, 10, 11, 12, 21, etc. 2 + 2 = 4 only with the basis of that belief is based on 5 or higher. With Trinity math, 3 is the answer to everything. So 3 = 10.
An odd example of this is the foot or the pound.
With a foot, 6 + 7 = 1 (ft)+ 1 (in). Of course 2 + 2 could equal 26.
2 ft. + 2 in. = 26 in.
With pounds, 14 + 12 = 1 (lb.) + 10 (oz.). And here 2 (lbs.) + 2 (oz.) = 34.
And usually 2 (boys) + 2 (girls) = ((xy)(xx))^n where xy is a male and xx is a female. To the nth (^n) power shows the ability to reproduce.
This is where if we have 2xy * 2xx, it is not as simple as = 4.
This is because it = 4x^3y. And yet when to the nth power, it would actually be n(xx/xy) where the ratio of x's to y's would need to be considered. Sometimes there are more x's than y's while at other times there might be more y's than x's.
Of course 4x^3y might show where xx might be more prevalent than xy.
If you consider in the millions in the U.S. in 2021;
xy = 162.06 xx = 169.36

Over 7 million more females and basic algebra supports that.
And Thank You gfm7175 for bringing this to our attention. With boys and girls,
2 + 2 ≠ 4.

p.s., @All, he was thinking 2y (boys) * 2x (girls) = 4xy. That's 2 boys and 2 girls.
But chromosomes are in pairs of xy (boys) and xx (girls). Just leave it to a Christian to complicate something as basic as math.
Edited on 29-12-2021 01:17
29-12-2021 03:58
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3908)
Spongy Iris wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Logic is not a cop out.


At a bare minimum, logic should require you to pay lip service to the convincing correlations I have illustrated, to say further research is warranted to confirm causation.

Your lack of logic is on brazen display here.

You are willing to lose your job to avoid the Covid 19 vaccine.

But then you say Covid 19 is not a risk.

If COVID 19 is not a risk, then why do you care about getting vaccinated?


I care about what I put in my body. There are risks with any drug. Covid doesn't pose a significant threat, to mitigate the risk of introducing a drug, that can't be removed. Suppose they came up with a universal cold vaccine. Two or three doses each year, and you'll never catch a cold. There are a few rare, but serious reactions, even death. Only a few thousand adverse effects, per million doses. Would you still get vaccinated every year, to avoid potentially 3-7 days of cold symptoms occasionally? Some will, some won't. I wouldn't because a cold isn't a serious health risk. I'd be getting injected more frequently, than I actually catch a cold. I still have caught the covid, and don't take any extra precautions. Wear a mask in stores, when required. Not the suggested biohazard gear, but a loose-fitting mask on compliance, that allows me to breath freely. Basically worthless, even as a dust filter...

Covid isn't the problem, it's government overreach. Not sure why Joe Biden gets away with extortion. The OSHA mandate is an impeachable offense.
29-12-2021 04:26
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(2809)
James___ wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:

Spongy Iris wrote:
Going by your logic, nothing is true, everything is false,

2+2=4 is true. Boys are different than girls is true.
2+2=3 is false. Boys are identical to girls is false.





2 + 2 = 11 using the Trinity math based on 3.
An example is 1,2, 10, 11, 12, 21, etc. 2 + 2 = 4 only with the basis of that belief is based on 5 or higher. With Trinity math, 3 is the answer to everything. So 3 = 10.
An odd example of this is the foot or the pound.
With a foot, 6 + 7 = 1 (ft)+ 1 (in). Of course 2 + 2 could equal 26.
2 ft. + 2 in. = 26 in.
With pounds, 14 + 12 = 1 (lb.) + 10 (oz.). And here 2 (lbs.) + 2 (oz.) = 34.
And usually 2 (boys) + 2 (girls) = ((xy)(xx))^n where xy is a male and xx is a female. To the nth (^n) power shows the ability to reproduce.
This is where if we have 2xy * 2xx, it is not as simple as = 4.
This is because it = 4x^3y. And yet when to the nth power, it would actually be n(xx/xy) where the ratio of x's to y's would need to be considered. Sometimes there are more x's than y's while at other times there might be more y's than x's.
Of course 4x^3y might show where xx might be more prevalent than xy.
If you consider in the millions in the U.S. in 2021;
xy = 162.06 xx = 169.36

Over 7 million more females and basic algebra supports that.
And Thank You gfm7175 for bringing this to our attention. With boys and girls,
2 + 2 ≠ 4.

p.s., @All, he was thinking 2y (boys) * 2x (girls) = 4xy. That's 2 boys and 2 girls.
But chromosomes are in pairs of xy (boys) and xx (girls). Just leave it to a Christian to complicate something as basic as math.

Holy **** you have issues...
29-12-2021 04:43
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★★
(2263)
James wrote:
Just leave it to a Christian to complicate something as basic as math.


Just leave it to a liberal Democrat to complicate something as basic as boys and girls.


keepit, you are...the earwax of essential oils...-IBdaMann
Edited on 29-12-2021 05:36
29-12-2021 05:47
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
GasGuzzler wrote:
James wrote:
Just leave it to a Christian to complicate something as basic as math.


Just leave it to a liberal Democrat to complicate something as basic as boys and girls.



And as your friend said, 2 + 2 has to do with boys being different than girls. Maybe one of you can explain why a basic math problem represents the difference between males and females?
Next he'll say that 2 + 2 = 4 because Americans are superior.
And that 2 + 2 = 3 is false because no one is as good as Americans. That is what such basic logic allows for. The 3rd Reich used such basic examples to show why they were correct. And who wants to be wrong? Right?

p.s., I'll give you guys a break on this one, okay? Guys are better than their wives/girlfriends. With 3 being less than 4, guys aren't inferior like their wives/girlfriends.
If you consider 2 + 2, guys are different than girls. True.
Then 2 + 2 = 3, a lower number. That is false. Guys are not like something beneath them.
Yep, gfm and GasGuzzler aren't losers like the women in their lives. Go GOP!!
Attached image:


Edited on 29-12-2021 05:54
29-12-2021 05:51
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10662)
Spongy Iris wrote:There is a strong correlation between IL-6 level and severity of COVID-19.

Correlation is not causation. It is insufficient to provide a correlation; you must provide the causation, in a direct causal chain. In this case starting with COVID and/or vaccines and ending with "diminished immunity."

Fortunately, you get unlimited do-overs.
29-12-2021 05:55
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10662)
Spongy Iris wrote:Or maybe you will want to blame all covid deaths on pneumonia, or sepsis, or arthtritis, etc.

I don't need to ... there aren't any COVID deaths. All the deaths attributed to COVID were caused by something else. The dishonest people of the world will insist that COVID was the cause when it wasn't.

.
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