Ocean ph.

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
"You should study up on buffers in acid-base chemical reactions." - ITN
"Water itself is a buffer for acid." - Into the Night

Yes, you should study up on buffers in acid-base chemical reactions.

You would learn why water itself is not a buffer for acid.

Water is a buffer for any acid.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
A buffer is the conjugate base of a weak acid, able to protonate upon addition of acid to resist solution pH change. The most important such conjugate bases in sea water are the bicarbonate ion, HCO3-, and the carbonate ion, CO3(2-).

No chemical 'protonates'.
Water itself resists pH change.
Bicarbonate is not a chemical.
HCO3- is not a chemical.
Carbonate is not a chemical.
CO3(2-) is not a chemical.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
Upon addition of acid to sea water, hydrogen ions (a.k.a. "protons"), H+ attach to carbonate ions, CO3(2-) to form bicarbonate ions, HCO3-.

H+ + CO3(2-) = HCO3-

Hydrogen is not a proton.
H+ is not a chemical.
Carbonate is not a chemical.
CO3(2-) is not a chemical.
Bicarbonate is not a chemical.
HCO3- is not a chemical.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
The solution pH declines very little.

The bioavailability of carbonate ion for CaCO3 shell formation is decreased.

You still don't understand pH.
'Bioavailability' is not a word.
Carbonate is not a chemical.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
When carbon dioxide from the atmosphere dissolves into the sea, and some small part of it becomes carbonic acid, reaction with carbonate ensures that the CO2 shall never return to the atmosphere.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
Carbonic acid is not carbon dioxide.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
The bicarbonate ion cannot evaporate. Bioavailability of carbonate is diminished.

Bicarbonate is not a chemical.
'Bioavailability' is not a word.
Carbonate is not a chemical.

Im a BM wrote:
I see that you have chosen, once again, to display your STUPIDITY rather than refrain from trolling.

Im a BM wrote:
Your chemistry genius depends heavily on the definition of "chemical", and why that makes any difference regarding the points supposedly being "rebutted".

Im a BM wrote:
Life is not a chemical.

Science is not a chemical.

Im a BM wrote:
Into the Night is NOT a chemist.

That much is self evident in his STUPID posts.

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:The pH of ocean water varies somewhat, depend on where you draw your sample from.

Absolutely. In fact, it varies substantially. You probably won't be surprised to learn that "Ocean Acidification!"-crying "Climate Scientists have actually been dishonest in this regard. They have taken water samples over time, each time getting a little closer to a bay and ultimately closer to the mouth of a river, amazingly portraying a decrease in pH over time, or an "Acidification!" if you will.

Into the Night wrote:Most folks consider the average of them around 8.2. It is, of course, not possible to actually measure the global average pH of the world's oceans.

Of course. The ocean is alkaline because of natural geological activity. Any carbonic acid, however, is part of a cycle and will be removed through evaporation. In short, the oceans certainly might be alkalinizing and will never become acidic, i.e. will never acidify.

.

Im a BM wrote:
This post is full of ABSURD assertions, such as the idea that ocean acidification simply goes away by evaporation.

Im a BM wrote:
It also includes an outrageous accusation - that sea water samples were collected progressively closer to some river mouth over time to create the deception of declining pH.

Im a BM wrote:
IBdaMann can never provide an actual example.

Im a BM wrote:
Hey, if you can't identify the particular location where the data got faked by changing sample location over time to get closer to the river mouth...

Im a BM wrote:
Hey, just tell me which river puts acidic water into the sea. And then explain how that "natural geologic activity" keeps the sea alkaline.

Im a BM wrote:
Then again, IBdaMann is such a compulsive liar, he'll probably insist that he was correct about every assertion.

Im a BM wrote:
With ONE exception. He admits that what my grandma called "phosphates" and my dad called "soda pops" got their low pH from PHOSPHORIC ACID, and he actually admitted he was WRONG about something.

Im a BM wrote:
In September, 2019, IBdaMann actually admitted he was wrong. But only about the phosphoric acid and carbonated beverage pH.

Im a BM wrote:
But nearly EVERYTHING IBdaMann claims about sea water chemistry is WRONG.

Im a BM wrote:
No, they didn't shift the position of sea water sampling point locations over time to get closer to the acid rivers ANYWHERE.

Im a BM wrote:
There is no deception involved, and the chemistry is straightforward.

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
This post is full of ABSURD assertions, such as the idea that ocean acidification simply goes away by evaporation.

You cannot acidify an alkaline.
Evaporation does remove carbonic acid.

Im a BM wrote:
It also includes an outrageous accusation - that sea water samples were collected progressively closer to some river mouth over time to create the deception of declining pH.

Not outrageous at all. You apparently have no idea what the pH at the mouth of a typical river is either.

Im a BM wrote:
IBdaMann can never provide an actual example.

He already did. RQAA.

Im a BM wrote:
Hey, if you can't identify the particular location where the data got faked by changing sample location over time to get closer to the river mouth...

I guess you still don't know how pH works.

Im a BM wrote:
Hey, just tell me which river puts acidic water into the sea. And then explain how that "natural geologic activity" keeps the sea alkaline.

No river is naturally acidic, Robert.
Lower pH does not mean acidic.

Im a BM wrote:
Then again, IBdaMann is such a compulsive liar, he'll probably insist that he was correct about every assertion.

He is correct.

Im a BM wrote:
With ONE exception. He admits that what my grandma called "phosphates" and my dad called "soda pops" got their low pH from PHOSPHORIC ACID, and he actually admitted he was WRONG about something.

Phosphoric acid is a flavoring agent in some sodas, particularly colas and rootbeer. It is typically not used in other flavors.

Citric acid is used in almost all sodas.
Sodas are typically acidic because of the citric acid, not necessarily because of phosphoric acid.

A very small amount of carbonic forms when carbon dioxide is dissolved in water. It provides no additional flavoring.

If the soda goes flat, the carbonic acid disappears.

Im a BM wrote:
In September, 2019, IBdaMann actually admitted he was wrong. But only about the phosphoric acid and carbonated beverage pH.

Phosphoric acid is not used in all sodas. Just colas and some types of rootbeer.

Im a BM wrote:
But nearly EVERYTHING IBdaMann claims about sea water chemistry is WRONG.

He is correct. Inversion fallacy. You are describing yourself again.

Im a BM wrote:
No, they didn't shift the position of sea water sampling point locations over time to get closer to the acid rivers ANYWHERE.

Who is 'they'?

Im a BM wrote:
There is no deception involved, and the chemistry is straightforward.

There is, and you deny chemistry.

Im a BM wrote:
"No river is naturally acidic, Robert." - Into the Night

Google is an excellent tool to expose Into the Night's STUPIDITY.

Google inquiry: "What is the average pH of 'blackwater rivers'?"

Google knows SO MUCH MORE than Into the Night about chemistry.

Google say: "The average pH of blackwater rivers typically ranges from 4.0 to 5.5. This makes them naturally acidic. ..while the average river in the US has pH between 6.5 and 8.5"

So, I ask Google, "Why are blackwater rivers naturally acidic?"

Google replies"Blackwater rivers are acidic because their water slowly filters through forests, swamps, and wetlands. As plants decay, they release tannins and humic acids into the water. These natural acids stain the water dark brown (like tea) and lower the pH."

Not coincidentally, the most acidic blackwater rivers in the world flow out of exceptionally tannin-rich tropical rainforests growing on "acid white sand" soils. These soils are nearly pure quartz sand, have very few roots, and very low pH.

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
This post is full of ABSURD assertions, such as the idea that ocean acidification simply goes away by evaporation.

You cannot acidify an alkaline.
Evaporation does remove carbonic acid.

Im a BM wrote:
It also includes an outrageous accusation - that sea water samples were collected progressively closer to some river mouth over time to create the deception of declining pH.

Not outrageous at all. You apparently have no idea what the pH at the mouth of a typical river is either.

Im a BM wrote:
IBdaMann can never provide an actual example.

He already did. RQAA.

Im a BM wrote:
Hey, if you can't identify the particular location where the data got faked by changing sample location over time to get closer to the river mouth...

I guess you still don't know how pH works.

Im a BM wrote:
Hey, just tell me which river puts acidic water into the sea. And then explain how that "natural geologic activity" keeps the sea alkaline.

No river is naturally acidic, Robert.
Lower pH does not mean acidic.

Im a BM wrote:
Then again, IBdaMann is such a compulsive liar, he'll probably insist that he was correct about every assertion.

He is correct.

Im a BM wrote:
With ONE exception. He admits that what my grandma called "phosphates" and my dad called "soda pops" got their low pH from PHOSPHORIC ACID, and he actually admitted he was WRONG about something.

Phosphoric acid is a flavoring agent in some sodas, particularly colas and rootbeer. It is typically not used in other flavors.

Citric acid is used in almost all sodas.
Sodas are typically acidic because of the citric acid, not necessarily because of phosphoric acid.

A very small amount of carbonic forms when carbon dioxide is dissolved in water. It provides no additional flavoring.

If the soda goes flat, the carbonic acid disappears.

Im a BM wrote:
In September, 2019, IBdaMann actually admitted he was wrong. But only about the phosphoric acid and carbonated beverage pH.

Phosphoric acid is not used in all sodas. Just colas and some types of rootbeer.

Im a BM wrote:
But nearly EVERYTHING IBdaMann claims about sea water chemistry is WRONG.

He is correct. Inversion fallacy. You are describing yourself again.

Im a BM wrote:
No, they didn't shift the position of sea water sampling point locations over time to get closer to the acid rivers ANYWHERE.

Who is 'they'?

Im a BM wrote:
There is no deception involved, and the chemistry is straightforward.

There is, and you deny chemistry.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
"No river is naturally acidic, Robert." - Into the Night

Google is an excellent tool to expose Into the Night's STUPIDITY.

Google inquiry: "What is the average pH of 'blackwater rivers'?"

Google knows SO MUCH MORE than Into the Night about chemistry.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
Google say: "The average pH of blackwater rivers typically ranges from 4.0 to 5.5. This makes them naturally acidic. ..while the average river in the US has pH between 6.5 and 8.5"

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
So, I ask Google, "Why are blackwater rivers naturally acidic?"

Google replies"Blackwater rivers are acidic because their water slowly filters through forests, swamps, and wetlands. As plants decay, they release tannins and humic acids into the water. These natural acids stain the water dark brown (like tea) and lower the pH."

Not coincidentally, the most acidic blackwater rivers in the world flow out of exceptionally tannin-rich tropical rainforests growing on "acid white sand" soils. These soils are nearly pure quartz sand, have very few roots, and very low pH.

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
"No river is naturally acidic, Robert." - Into the Night

Google is an excellent tool to expose Into the Night's STUPIDITY.

Google inquiry: "What is the average pH of 'blackwater rivers'?"

Google knows SO MUCH MORE than Into the Night about chemistry.

Google is not sentient.
Google is not a Holy Oracle.
There is no such thing as 'blackwater rivers'.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
Google say: "The average pH of blackwater rivers typically ranges from 4.0 to 5.5. This makes them naturally acidic. ..while the average river in the US has pH between 6.5 and 8.5"

There is no such thing as 'blackwater rivers'.
It is not possible to measure the pH of a river.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
So, I ask Google, "Why are blackwater rivers naturally acidic?"

Google replies"Blackwater rivers are acidic because their water slowly filters through forests, swamps, and wetlands. As plants decay, they release tannins and humic acids into the water. These natural acids stain the water dark brown (like tea) and lower the pH."

Not coincidentally, the most acidic blackwater rivers in the world flow out of exceptionally tannin-rich tropical rainforests growing on "acid white sand" soils. These soils are nearly pure quartz sand, have very few roots, and very low pH.

There is no such thing as 'blackwater rivers'.
Google is not sentient.
Tannin is not a chemical.
Humic is not a chemical.

I see you are trying to justify IBDaMann's argument.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
I see that you are a compulsive TROLL.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
Two falsifiable theories are presented.

1. It is not possible to measure the pH of river water.
2. There is no such thing as "blackwater rivers".

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
Will the dominant troll back you up on this?

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
Sure, we can know with certainty what happens miles beneath the surface for magic petroleum with no input from dead organisms.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
But we could not possibly come up with an accurate measure of river water pH?

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
Anyone who thinks that "blackwater rivers" are a HOAX or fairy tale can very easily look the term up with virtually any search engine or dictionary.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
My own fondness for blackwater rivers comes from studying them on the coastal terraces of northern where acid white sand soils support only exceptionally tannin-rich vegetation. Nothing else can grow there. The biggest difference between that research site and the equatorial rainforests on acid white sands is that the pygmy forest supports more than an order of magnitude less biomass. An even smaller pool of bioavailable nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, etc. is very tightly cycled and contained virtually exclusively in the live or dead biomass.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
Yes, "blackwater rivers" of pH 3-4 are REAL, and full of tannins in that tea colored water.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
I know because I've seen 'em with my own lying eyes, collected the streamwater samples myself, and measured their tannins, pH, total organic carbon, etc. myself in a lab using some of the world's best equipment.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
MOST rivers have ever so slightly alkaline water.

But not blackwater rivers.

Im a BM and sealover and Patricio wrote:
Scientifically illiterate moron trolls can't comprehend that blackwater rivers DO exist and it IS possible to measure their acidic water pH using modern technology and advanced chemistry skills that include basic knowledge of what pH actually IS.

Im a BM wrote: This post is full of ABSURD assertions, such as the idea that ocean acidification simply goes away by evaporation.

Im a BM wrote:IBdaMann can never provide an actual example of evaporation.

Im a BM wrote: Hey, just tell me which river puts acidic water into the sea. And then explain how that "natural geologic activity" keeps the sea alkaline.

Im a BM wrote:In September, 2019, IBdaMann actually admitted he was wrong. But only about the phosphoric acid and carbonated beverage pH.

Im a BM wrote: But nearly EVERYTHING IBdaMann claims about sea water chemistry is WRONG.

Im a BM wrote: No, they didn't shift the position of sea water sampling point locations over time to get closer to the acid rivers ANYWHERE.

Im a BM wrote:There is no deception involved,

Im a BM wrote:and the chemistry is straightforward.

IBdaMann wrote:

olyz wrote:1) If there is CO2 in the air, ocean must be saturated and any additional won't make any difference.

Absurd. Does the ocean look carbonated to you?

olyz wrote: If ocean is saturated, it's ph must be 5.5. It isn't, it's a little above7.

Actually, sodas are much less than that.

From "The pH of beverages in the United States"
by Avanija Reddy, DMD, MPH; Don F. Norris, DMD; Stephanie
S. Momeni, MS, MBA; Belinda Waldo, DMD; John D. Ruby,
DMD, PhD

RC Cola 2.32
Coca-Cola Caffeine Free 2.34
Coca-Cola Classic 2.37
Coca-Cola Cherry 2.38
Pepsi 2.39
Pepsi Wild Cherry 2.41
Boylan's Sugar Cane Cola 2.54
Schweppes Tonic Water 2.54
Hansen's Cane Soda Pomegranate 2.55
Hansen's Cane Soda Mandarin Lime 2.57
Hansen's Cane Soda Kiwi Strawberry 2.59
Jolly Rancher Grape 2.6
Jones Green Apple Soda 2.65
Fanta Grape 2.67
Pepsi Max Ceasefire 2.7
Tab 2.72
Pepsi Max 2.74
Boylan's Black Cherry 2.76
Crush Grape 2.76
Grapico 2.77
Vault 2.77
Fanta Pineapple 2.79
Jones Orange & Cream Soda 2.79
Mr. Pibb Xtra 2.8
Vault Red Blitz 2.8
Jones Strawberry Lime 2.81
Canada Dry Ginger Ale 2.82
Fanta Orange 2.82
Fanta Strawberry 2.84
Crush Orange 2.87
Hawaiian Punch (Fruit Juicy Red) 2.87
Dr. Pepper 2.88
Jolly Rancher Orange 2.88
Jones M.F. Grape 2.89
Sunkist Peach 2.89
Vault X 2.89
Natural Brew Draft Root Beer 2.9
Boylan's Grape 2.91
Hansen's Cane Soda Cherry Vanilla Crème 2.91
Coca-Cola Cherry Zero 2.93
Jones Mandarin Orange 2.93
Coca-Cola Lime Diet 2.96
Coca-Cola Zero 2.96
7UP Cherry 2.98
Sunkist Orange 2.98
Jones Blue Bubblegum 2.99
Sunkist Strawberry 2.99
Izze Sparkling Pomegranate 3.01
Pepsi Diet 3.02
Sunkist Solar Fusion Tropical Mandarin 3.02
Mellow Yellow 3.03
Coca-Cola Caffeine Free Diet 3.04
Grapico Diet 3.04
Jones Cream Soda 3.04
Mountain Dew Voltage 3.05
Dr Pepper Cherry 3.06
Fresca 3.08
Sierra Mist 3.09
Coca-Cola Diet 3.1
Welch's Grape Soda 3.11
Ale 8-One 3.13
Sprite Zero 3.14
Mountain Dew Diet 3.18
Dr Pepper Diet 3.2
Boylan's Orange Soda 3.22
Mountain Dew (regular) 3.22
Buffalo Rock Ginger Ale 3.23
7UP 3.24
Sprite 3.24
Izze Sparkling Clementine 3.27
Mountain Dew Code Red 3.27
Izze Sparkling Blackberry 3.28
Sierra Mist 3.31
Dr Pepper Diet Cherry 3.32
Jones Red Apple 3.4
Jones Root Beer 3.42
Hansen's Cane Soda Black Cherry Diet 3.47
7UP Diet 3.48
Sunkist Diet 3.49
Boylan's Orange Cream 3.59
Hansen's Cane Soda Creamy Root Beer Diet 3.73
Boylan's Original Birch Beer 3.8
A&W Cream Soda 3.86
Mug Root Beer 3.88
Boylan's Diet Black Cherry 4
Boylan's Root Beer 4.01
Boylan's Diet Root Beer 4.05
IBC Root Beer 4.1
Barq's Root Beer 4.11
Boylan's Creme Soda 4.17
A&W Root Beer 4.27
Maine Root Root Beer 4.36
A&W Root Beer Diet 4.57
Canada Dry Club Soda 5.24

I believe a better estimate for the ocean's average pH to be around 8.2, but that's just me.

olyz wrote: 3) Forget the reef. Carbonic acid reacts with sand which covers ocean floor, ie, a vast CO2 sink.

The carbonic acide never gets to the bottom. The vast bulk of any carbonic acid arrives via rain. It's the water on top, and it evaporates releasing the CO2 back into the atmosphere. It never gets to the bottom floor. Any other carbonic acid that flows in from other sources mixes with the 8.2 pH and, due to the rather large quantity of ocean water, becomes 8.2 pH.

olyz wrote:So it looks like there is a continuous process of CO2 (actually carbonic acid) reacting with the ocean floor and being absorbed from atmosphere.

Nope. It never gets there.


.

sealover wrote:
A Google FACT CHECK for IBdaMann's STUPID, scientifically-illiterate ASS!

IBdaMann goes FULL RETARD, with the claim that "Carbonic acid never get to the bottom."

sealover wrote:
Google, please tell me "Is the concentration of dissolved carbon dioxide in sea water lower at greater depth?"

[b]sealover wrote:
[/b]
Unlike IBdaMann, Google is NOT scientifically illiterate.

sealover wrote:
Google say: "No, the concentration of dissolved carbon dioxide is actually higher at greater depth."

sealover wrote:
Apparently, dissolved CO2 is not confined to the uppermost centimeters of sea water, where it gets "buffered" by evaporation.

sealover wrote:
But don't worry! This IBdaMann post has LOTS of "value added" substance for the discussion. It provides a long list of carbonated beverages and their pH.

What more does one need to say fully explain the role of the carbonate system in sea water chemistry?

Into the Night wrote:

sealover wrote:
A Google FACT CHECK for IBdaMann's STUPID, scientifically-illiterate ASS!

IBdaMann goes FULL RETARD, with the claim that "Carbonic acid never get to the bottom."

IBdaMann is correct.

sealover wrote:
Google, please tell me "Is the concentration of dissolved carbon dioxide in sea water lower at greater depth?"

Carbon dioxide is not carbonic acid.

[b]sealover wrote:
[/b]
Unlike IBdaMann, Google is NOT scientifically illiterate.

This statement is correct, since Google is not sentient.

sealover wrote:
Google say: "No, the concentration of dissolved carbon dioxide is actually higher at greater depth."

Carbon dioxide is not carbonic acid.
Carbon dioxide is lighter than water. It does not sink.

sealover wrote:
Apparently, dissolved CO2 is not confined to the uppermost centimeters of sea water, where it gets "buffered" by evaporation.

This interaction takes place in the uppermost centimeters of sea water.
You apparently are denying evaporation again.

sealover wrote:
But don't worry! This IBdaMann post has LOTS of "value added" substance for the discussion. It provides a long list of carbonated beverages and their pH.

What more does one need to say fully explain the role of the carbonate system in sea water chemistry?

Carbonate is not a chemical.
Carbonate is not a system.
Sea water is not chemistry.

Im a BM wrote: Yes, as you go deeper from the surface, the concentration of dissolved CO2 INCREASES, up to 20% above what you find at the top.

Im a BM wrote: But the laws of chemistry equilibrium still apply to dissolved CO2 that is 10, 100, or more than a 1000 meters below the surface.

Im a BM wrote: It can still combine with water to become carbonic acid. CO2 + H2O = H2CO3

Im a BM wrote: Don't expect it to evaporate away from down deep.

Im a BM wrote: Don't expect it to stop reacting with dissolved carbonate ions, CO3(2-).

Im a BM wrote: Don't expect anyone who actually STUDIED chemistry to believe you can unilaterally declare that "There is no such thing as the 'carbonate system'".

Im a BM wrote:
So, at least you haven't come out in DENIAL of the scientific FACT that the concentration of dissolved CO2 in sea water is actually GREATER down at the bottom.

Im a BM wrote:
You are simply in DENIAL of the scientific FACT that a little less than 1% of dissolved CO2 can become CARBONIC ACID anywhere other than the uppermost centimeters of sea water at the surface where it contacts the atmosphere.

Im a BM wrote:
Yes, as you go deeper from the surface, the concentration of dissolved CO2 INCREASES, up to 20% above what you find at the top.

Im a BM wrote:
But the laws of chemistry equilibrium still apply to dissolved CO2 that is 10, 100, or more than a 1000 meters below the surface. It can still combine with water to become carbonic acid.

Im a BM wrote:
CO2 + H2O = H2CO3

Im a BM wrote:
Don't expect it to evaporate away from down deep.

Don't expect it to stop reacting with dissolved carbonate ions, CO3(2-).

Don't expect anyone who actually STUDIED chemistry to believe you can unilaterally declare that "There is no such thing as the 'carbonate system'".

Even those who did NOT ever study chemistry in a formal can very easily FACT CHECK your retarded assertions with a search engine or dictionary.

But that won't stop you from the RELENTLESS TROLLING that has enabled you to be the CHAMPION SPAMMER, with more than 24,000 posts.

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
So, at least you haven't come out in DENIAL of the scientific FACT that the concentration of dissolved CO2 in sea water is actually GREATER down at the bottom.

Go learn what 'fact' means. Science is not a Universal Truth.
Dissolved CO2 stays near the top of the water. It is lighter than an equal volume of water.

Im a BM wrote:
You are simply in DENIAL of the scientific FACT that a little less than 1% of dissolved CO2 can become CARBONIC ACID anywhere other than the uppermost centimeters of sea water at the surface where it contacts the atmosphere.

Go learn what 'fact' means. It does NOT mean 'Universal Truth'.
Science is not Universal Truth.
Carbon dioxide is not carbonic acid.

Im a BM wrote:
Yes, as you go deeper from the surface, the concentration of dissolved CO2 INCREASES, up to 20% above what you find at the top.

Nope. It's lighter than water.

Im a BM wrote:
But the laws of chemistry equilibrium still apply to dissolved CO2 that is 10, 100, or more than a 1000 meters below the surface. It can still combine with water to become carbonic acid.

Carbon dioxide is not carbonic acid.
Both carbon dioxide and carbonic acid are lighter than water.
[

Im a BM wrote:
CO2 + H2O = H2CO3

Incorrect equation.

Im a BM wrote:
Don't expect it to evaporate away from down deep.

Don't expect it to stop reacting with dissolved carbonate ions, CO3(2-).

Don't expect anyone who actually STUDIED chemistry to believe you can unilaterally declare that "There is no such thing as the 'carbonate system'".

Even those who did NOT ever study chemistry in a formal can very easily FACT CHECK your retarded assertions with a search engine or dictionary.

But that won't stop you from the RELENTLESS TROLLING that has enabled you to be the CHAMPION SPAMMER, with more than 24,000 posts.

Evaporation reduces the carbonic acid in the water.
Evaporation reduces the dissolved carbon dioxide in water as well.
Carbonate is not a chemical.
There is no such thing as a 'carbonate system'.
There is no such thing as 'fact check'. Go learn what 'fact' means.
No search engine defines any word.
No dictionary defines any word.
Inversion fallacy. You cannot blame your spamming problem on anybody else, Robert.

Im a BM wrote: Into the Night, you make some wild assertions.

Let me see if I am properly synthesizing your explanations:

Im a BM wrote: Hydrogen and helium are too heavy to be able to leave the atmosphere and float off to outer space.

Im a BM wrote: Carbon dioxide and carbonic acid are too light to be able to sink down in seawater beyond the uppermost surface water.

Im a BM wrote: Therefore, all the carbon dioxide that dissolves in sea water is confined to the uppermost centimeters of the sea surface.

Im a BM wrote: Let's pretend that CO2 can only penetrate to one meter depth,

Im a BM wrote: Let's then acknowledge the reality that the sea contains about 50x as much CO2 as the atmosphere.

Im a BM wrote:olyz was close.

Im a BM wrote: The sea contains about ten times as much dissolved bicarbonate, HCO3- as it does dissolved carbonate, CO3(2-).

Im a BM wrote:
Into the Night, you make some wild assertions.

Im a BM wrote:
Let me see if I am properly synthesizing your explanations:

Im a BM wrote:
Hydrogen and helium are too heavy to be able to leave the atmosphere and float off to outer space.

Im a BM wrote:
Carbon dioxide and carbonic acid are too light to be able to sink down in seawater beyond the uppermost surface water.

Im a BM wrote:
Therefore, all the carbon dioxide that dissolves in sea water is confined to the uppermost centimeters of the sea surface.

Im a BM wrote:
So, the overwhelming majority of VOLUME in the sea water is not available for DILUTION of that carbon dioxide and carbonic acid.

Im a BM wrote:
Let's pretend that CO2 can only penetrate to one meter depth, because it is so light. Let's then acknowledge the reality that the sea contains about 50x as much CO2 as the atmosphere. 39,000 gigatons dissolved in the sea compared to 900 gigatons floating in the atmosphere. Now, let's pack all that dissolved CO2 into just the uppermost 1 meter of sea water and calculate the surface water pH.

Im a BM wrote:
That is something that someone who actually studied chemistry could do!

Im a BM wrote:
However, this thread from 2019 begins with @olyz suggesting a pH of 5.5 should be expected for water in equilibrium with with atmospheric CO2, although he incorrectly used the term "saturated".

Im a BM wrote:
olyz was close. If the atmospheric CO2 gets a little higher, pH 5.5 will be what a raindrop of pure water attains if it is in equilibrium (had enough time to get there during condensation, before fallout).

Im a BM wrote:
None of the local troll "scientists" ever addressed where the pH 5.5 figure came from.

Im a BM wrote:
But the sea is not made of otherwise pure water in equilibrium with the atmosphere, and it does not have the pH 5.6 that is typical of natural rainfall.

Im a BM wrote:
At the same time the sea constantly takes in more and more "carbonic acid gas" (CO2) from the atmosphere, it also gets supplied with more and more carbonate ions, CO3(2-).

Im a BM wrote:
Microbial sulfate reduction is the most important source of the carbonate ions that keep sea water pH above 8.1

Carbonate ions get consumed by reaction with carbonic acid.

Im a BM wrote:
H2CO3 + CO3(2-) = 2HCO3-

Im a BM wrote:
The sea contains about ten times as much dissolved bicarbonate, HCO3- as it does dissolved carbonate, CO3(2-). Carbonate ions are what most CaCO3 shell forming organisms depend on.

Im a BM wrote:
Insisting that "carbonate is not a chemical" and that "there is no such thing as the 'carbonate system'" are just some of the ways Into the Night displays the fact that he never studied chemistry.

Im a BM wrote:
Into the Night, you are just a scientifically-illiterate TROLL who fouls all discussion at climate-debate.com

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:The pH of ocean water varies somewhat, depend on where you draw your sample from.

Absolutely. In fact, it varies substantially. You probably won't be surprised to learn that "Ocean Acidification!"-crying "Climate Scientists have actually been dishonest in this regard. They have taken water samples over time, each time getting a little closer to a bay and ultimately closer to the mouth of a river, amazingly portraying a decrease in pH over time, or an "Acidification!" if you will.

Into the Night wrote:Most folks consider the average of them around 8.2. It is, of course, not possible to actually measure the global average pH of the world's oceans.

Of course. The ocean is alkaline because of natural geological activity. Any carbonic acid, however, is part of a cycle and will be removed through evaporation. In short, the oceans certainly might be alkalinizing and will never become acidic, i.e. will never acidify.

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Im a BM wrote:
Evidence? We don't need no stinkin' evidence!

A very serious accusation is made by IBdaMann.

He claims that the geographic position of sampling points was shifted over time to collect sea water samples closer and closer to the river mouth.

Im a BM wrote:
With so many sampling stations throughout the world, this deceptive practice would have to have been done at many places.

Im a BM wrote:
Of course, IBdaMann could never provide even ONE example of where this was done.

Im a BM wrote:
His self-evident omniscience should be more than enough to verify the legitimacy of any such claims he makes, right?

Im a BM wrote:
If it helps, I could find some documents that prove the position of the sea water sampling stations has been fixed for many decades, and have not been moved over time.

Im a BM wrote:
This is not comparable to setting up a thermometer too close to someone's air conditioner to get skewed data results.

Im a BM wrote:
IBdaMann, just give us the name of the river, where the acidic outflow to the sea skews the sea water pH results, and you have something more than your imagination as EVIDENCE that they moved the sampling position over time.

Im a BM wrote:
Such a heavy duty false accusation falls flat in the absence of evidence.

Im a BM wrote: IBdaMann, just give us the name of the river, where the acidic outflow to the sea skews the sea water pH results, ...