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Northern hemisphere sees in early spring due to global warming



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Northern hemisphere sees in early spring due to global warming01-03-2017 21:20
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/01/northern-hemisphere-sees-in-early-spring-due-global-warming


The evidence comes from those silent witnesses, the natural things that respond to climate signals. The relatively new science of phenology – the calendar record of first bud, first flower, first nesting behaviour and first migrant arrivals – has over the last three decades repeatedly confirmed meteorological fears of global warming as a consequence of the combustion of fossil fuels.


This is something we all can relate to, well those of us that go outside anyway.

A new topic to discuss, derail, hope goes away as you see fit.


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
01-03-2017 23:04
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
spot wrote:[quote]
The evidence comes from those silent witnesses, the natural things that respond to climate signals.


What is a "climate signal"? How do I recognize a "climate" signal from a non-"climate" signal?


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
02-03-2017 00:12
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
IBdaMann wrote:
spot wrote:[quote]
The evidence comes from those silent witnesses, the natural things that respond to climate signals.


What is a "climate signal"? How do I recognize a "climate" signal from a non-"climate" signal?


I think holding the flag in only one hand means that it's a climate signal. Holding it in two is a message between ships at sea.
02-03-2017 00:35
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
spot wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/01/northern-hemisphere-sees-in-early-spring-due-global-warming


The evidence comes from those silent witnesses, the natural things that respond to climate signals. The relatively new science of phenology – the calendar record of first bud, first flower, first nesting behaviour and first migrant arrivals – has over the last three decades repeatedly confirmed meteorological fears of global warming as a consequence of the combustion of fossil fuels.


This is something we all can relate to, well those of us that go outside anyway.

A new topic to discuss, derail, hope goes away as you see fit.


Throughout history these short mild times in the middle of winter have harkened early budding and mating behavior of plants and animals only to be followed by hard conditions again and the death and extremely slow recovery of these species.

Nothing has demonstrated this more clearly that "good" and "bad" wine years.
02-03-2017 09:32
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
You haven't bothered to click the link have you?
02-03-2017 14:38
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
Wake wrote:... holding the flag in only one hand means that it's a climate signal. Holding it in two is a message between ships at sea.

Holding a soaking wet flag, means old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiners held the flag during the west coast record rains & didn't mind dropping the flag in Lake Oroville, despite it being a U.S. flag.
02-03-2017 17:16
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
spot wrote:
You haven't bothered to click the link have you?


Because of your dramatic lack of education your entire life revolves around what someone else would say that would support your beliefs and to hell with science.

You are no more different than people who actually believe that if a ground hog sees his shadow on feb 2 that we will have six more weeks of winter.

You ignorance simply hasa no more effect on the world. You can believe absolutely anything you want and the world will go on around you because not only are you not there but you are a laughing stock for stand-up comedians.
02-03-2017 17:37
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
Wake wrote: Because of your dramatic lack of education your entire life revolves around what someone else would say that would support your beliefs and to hell with science.

What? Do we have another science accepter on the board?

Welcome. Are you for real? Do you accept the laws of thermodynamics? Do you accept Stefan-Boltzmann? Planck's?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
02-03-2017 17:37
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1875)
Well isn't this interesting...Here is a quote from Chief Litehead in the "arctic water not freezing" Thread.

1-31-17:
litesong wrote:


Early Spring is springing in the Northern Hemisphere, & strong in the High Arctic:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/01/northern-hemisphere-sees-in-early-spring-due-global-warming


It appears Sunspot and Litehead are getting there education from the same sources. (notice the link?) This explains quite a lot.

Edited on 02-03-2017 17:41
02-03-2017 17:48
Surface Detail
★★★★☆
(1673)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Well isn't this interesting...Here is a quote from Chief Litehead in the "arctic water not freezing" Thread.

1-31-17:
litesong wrote:


Early Spring is springing in the Northern Hemisphere, & strong in the High Arctic:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/01/northern-hemisphere-sees-in-early-spring-due-global-warming


It appears Sunspot and Litehead are getting there education from the same sources. (notice the link?) This explains quite a lot.

Shocking. They are both referring to the same article that is based on references to peer-reviewed scientific papers rather than nut-job denialist websites. What is the world coming to?
02-03-2017 18:01
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
Surface Detail wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Well isn't this interesting...Here is a quote from Chief Litehead in the "arctic water not freezing" Thread.

1-31-17:
litesong wrote:


Early Spring is springing in the Northern Hemisphere, & strong in the High Arctic:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/01/northern-hemisphere-sees-in-early-spring-due-global-warming


It appears Sunspot and Litehead are getting there education from the same sources. (notice the link?) This explains quite a lot.

Shocking. They are both referring to the same article that is based on references to peer-reviewed scientific papers rather than nut-job denialist websites. What is the world coming to?


GB and Brexit are bringing and end to the control you were pray to have over Great Britain. You have lost and there's no going back. The people aren't nearly as stupid as you've turned out to be.
02-03-2017 18:07
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
GasGuzzler wrote: Well isn't this interesting...Here is a quote from Chief Litehead in the "arctic water not freezing" Thread.

litesong's contributions should be appreciated for their unique perspective. You won't get them anywhere else. I tune in to the litesong channel to get updates on the AGW Berserker who is tearing it up in the Arctic. Who else is going to keep you posted on that topic?

Go litesong!


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
02-03-2017 18:16
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
Surface Detail wrote:Shocking. They are both referring to the same article that is based on references to peer-reviewed scientific papers rather than nut-job denialist websites. What is the world coming to?

Are you still throwing the word "peer-reviewed" around like it somehow makes WACKY warmizombie dogmababble more credible?

Are you still referring to scientific doubting and questioning as "nut job denialism"? Do you still happen to refer to thermodynamics and Stefan-Boltzmann as "nut job denialism."

Some people, e.g. you, are so buried by their WACKY cult religion that they cannot get out from under it's utter dominance of their lives.

Have you had any luck finding a falsifiable "greenhouse effect" model that does not violate physics?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
02-03-2017 18:17
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote: Well isn't this interesting...Here is a quote from Chief Litehead in the "arctic water not freezing" Thread.

litesong's contributions should be appreciated for their unique perspective. You won't get them anywhere else. I tune in to the litesong channel to get updates on the AGW Berserker who is tearing it up in the Arctic. Who else is going to keep you posted on that topic?

Go litesong!


On March 17, 1959 the USS Skate surfaced at the North Pole into clear water. But litehead is frightened silly that this might happen again.
02-03-2017 18:19
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
spot wrote: You haven't bothered to click the link have you?

Why don't you just summarize the content at the end of that link, in your own words?

Would it be that you don't understand the material and that you are hoping someone will read it and explain it to you?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
02-03-2017 18:28
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
IBdaMann wrote:
Surface Detail wrote:Shocking. They are both referring to the same article that is based on references to peer-reviewed scientific papers rather than nut-job denialist websites. What is the world coming to?

Are you still throwing the word "peer-reviewed" around like it somehow makes WACKY warmizombie dogmababble more credible?

Are you still referring to scientific doubting and questioning as "nut job denialism"? Do you still happen to refer to thermodynamics and Stefan-Boltzmann as "nut job denialism."

Some people, e.g. you, are so buried by their WACKY cult religion that they cannot get out from under it's utter dominance of their lives.

Have you had any luck finding a falsifiable "greenhouse effect" model that does not violate physics?
.


To put this into perspective the latest issue of Smithsonian Magazine has an article from a rather too famous Dr. Thomas McGovern that discusses Greenland and how conditions NOW are not as warm as they were when the Viking Settlements on Greenland were supporting some 2,500 people. Greenland is not capable of supporting a portion of that presently without heavy outside support.

What peer reviewed means is that the article has been published in a area in which it COULD be criticized by other's of the same educational background it they cared to. If you do NOT have any other people in that particular exact field of study you will not have any peers and so there will not be any criticisms. So the entire subject of peer review only is worthwhile WHERE THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS IN THE SAME FIELD AND SIGNIFICANT DISAGREEMENT AMONG THEM.

But today scientists hesitate to criticize each other because financial aid in the form of grants is so difficult to come by. You don't want to prevent a fellow scientist from gaining research grants just because you don't agree with him. You hope that his research will prove YOUR point to him.
Edited on 02-03-2017 18:31
02-03-2017 18:47
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1875)
If this is peer reviewed I've lost all faith in the "peers". This is nothing more than standard fear mongering political BS.

Ticks and mosquitoes become more active

We're all going to die from Malaria and Lyme's disease

pollen seasons last longer

You are going to be miserable for along time

Crops could flourish or be at risk from a sudden late frost or summer drought

Food sources could be destroyed suddenly

Plants could bloom before the arrival of the birds, bees and butterflies that feed on and pollinate the flowers,

There will come a time when there are no flowers or honey, and the birds and bees will be unhealthy and possibly worse.

Don't even get me started on the Caribou calves dying. What a crock.
Edited on 02-03-2017 18:52
02-03-2017 19:11
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
Glad to see that this has gotten so much response, keep it at the top, people will read the title and educate themselves on what is really going on in the world, I can't see them wallowing through post after post about different peoples opinion on what the well established Stefan-Boltzmann law means to basic assumptions about atmospheric physics.

Congratulations to GasGuzzler for actually reading it.

1:Ticks and mosquitoes become more active

no but its not a good thing

2:You are going to be miserable for along time

Yes I do have asthma so you are right, hope that makes you happy

3:Food sources could be destroyed suddenly

Possibly But I thought you were here to dispute everything for shits and giggles.

4:There will come a time when there are no flowers or honey, and the birds and bees will be unhealthy and possibly worse.

I don't know about that I would have to look into it.


5) Don't even get me started on the Caribou calves dying. What a crock.

You are an expert on this more then scientists who study Caribou? Good for you! Quick question how do you know all this because If I am totally honest I don't think If I looked into this I would find it's "a crock" as you claim.
02-03-2017 19:18
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner wake-me-up" woofs::GB and Brexit are bringing and(sic) end to the control you were pray(sic)....

"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner wake-me-up" uses as a defense, old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner organizations (while excitedly misspelling).
Surprise, surprise!!!
02-03-2017 19:28
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
spot wrote: Glad to see that this has gotten so much response, keep it at the top, people will read the title and educate themselves on what is really going on in the world,

You think people will become educated by reading the title?

What was the title anyway? It seemed too long for a title. It could have been shortened, and the unsupported religious conclusion should never have been included in the first place.

Have you found a falsifiable "climate change" model that doesn't violate physics?

spot wrote: You are an expert on this more then scientists who study Caribou?

Anybody can grab a pair of binoculars and head north to study caribou and I know that you bestow the title of "scientist" upon anyone who happens to share your opinions.

spot wrote: ... I don't think If I looked into this I would find it's "a crock" as you claim.

Completely moot. You won't look into it anywhere outside of warmizombie-approved websites. So that point is pretty much dead.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
02-03-2017 19:33
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
IBdaMann wrote:
spot wrote: Glad to see that this has gotten so much response, keep it at the top, people will read the title and educate themselves on what is really going on in the world,

You think people will become educated by reading the title?

What was the title anyway? It seemed too long for a title. It could have been shortened, and the unsupported religious conclusion should never have been included in the first place.

Have you found a falsifiable "climate change" model that doesn't violate physics?

spot wrote: You are an expert on this more then scientists who study Caribou?

Anybody can grab a pair of binoculars and head north to study caribou and I know that you bestow the title of "scientist" upon anyone who happens to share your opinions.

spot wrote: ... I don't think If I looked into this I would find it's "a crock" as you claim.

Completely moot. You won't look into it anywhere outside of warmizombie-approved websites. So that point is pretty much dead.


.


Spewing a word salad is not having a debate, people can click on the link and make up there own minds, you can of course claim that things cannot be mesured and that the laws of physics are different to what they are but it makes you look a dick.


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
02-03-2017 19:37
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
spot wrote:
Glad to see that this has gotten so much response, keep it at the top, people will read the title and educate themselves on what is really going on in the world, I can't see them wallowing through post after post about different peoples opinion on what the well established Stefan-Boltzmann law means to basic assumptions about atmospheric physics.

Congratulations to GasGuzzler for actually reading it.

1:Ticks and mosquitoes become more active

no but its not a good thing

2:You are going to be miserable for along time

Yes I do have asthma so you are right, hope that makes you happy

3:Food sources could be destroyed suddenly

Possibly But I thought you were here to dispute everything for shits and giggles.

4:There will come a time when there are no flowers or honey, and the birds and bees will be unhealthy and possibly worse.

I don't know about that I would have to look into it.


5) Don't even get me started on the Caribou calves dying. What a crock.

You are an expert on this more then scientists who study Caribou? Good for you! Quick question how do you know all this because If I am totally honest I don't think If I looked into this I would find it's "a crock" as you claim.


Do you know who Punxsutawney Phil is? Do you know WHERE he is situated? Are you aware that if he sees his shadow ON FEBRUARY 2 they say that there will be six more weeks of winter?

What sort of arithmetic capacity do you have? Try to consider what that means.

Gee - NORMALLY in Pennsylvania spring would start in early February.

But according to you it should last until late August - what date was that again?

You are showing your intellect more and more each day.
02-03-2017 19:38
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
spot wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
spot wrote: Glad to see that this has gotten so much response, keep it at the top, people will read the title and educate themselves on what is really going on in the world,

You think people will become educated by reading the title?

What was the title anyway? It seemed too long for a title. It could have been shortened, and the unsupported religious conclusion should never have been included in the first place.

Have you found a falsifiable "climate change" model that doesn't violate physics?

spot wrote: You are an expert on this more then scientists who study Caribou?

Anybody can grab a pair of binoculars and head north to study caribou and I know that you bestow the title of "scientist" upon anyone who happens to share your opinions.

spot wrote: ... I don't think If I looked into this I would find it's "a crock" as you claim.

Completely moot. You won't look into it anywhere outside of warmizombie-approved websites. So that point is pretty much dead.


.


Spewing a word salad is not having a debate, people can click on the link and make up there own minds, you can of course claim that things cannot be mesured and that the laws of physics are different to what they are but it makes you look a dick.


While we're at it - I have been wondering why you post that IB said that the atmosphere in and of itself is not a blackbody.

I would like you to tell me why you consider that incorrect. It is total fools like you that give normal fools a bad name.
Edited on 02-03-2017 19:40
02-03-2017 19:42
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
Wake wrote:
spot wrote:
Glad to see that this has gotten so much response, keep it at the top, people will read the title and educate themselves on what is really going on in the world, I can't see them wallowing through post after post about different peoples opinion on what the well established Stefan-Boltzmann law means to basic assumptions about atmospheric physics.

Congratulations to GasGuzzler for actually reading it.

1:Ticks and mosquitoes become more active

no but its not a good thing

2:You are going to be miserable for along time

Yes I do have asthma so you are right, hope that makes you happy

3:Food sources could be destroyed suddenly

Possibly But I thought you were here to dispute everything for shits and giggles.

4:There will come a time when there are no flowers or honey, and the birds and bees will be unhealthy and possibly worse.

I don't know about that I would have to look into it.


5) Don't even get me started on the Caribou calves dying. What a crock.

You are an expert on this more then scientists who study Caribou? Good for you! Quick question how do you know all this because If I am totally honest I don't think If I looked into this I would find it's "a crock" as you claim.


Do you know who Punxsutawney Phil is? Do you know WHERE he is situated? Are you aware that if he sees his shadow ON FEBRUARY 2 they say that there will be six more weeks of winter?

What sort of arithmetic capacity do you have? Try to consider what that means.

Gee - NORMALLY in Pennsylvania spring would start in early February.

But according to you it should last until late August - what date was that again?

You are showing your intellect more and more each day.


We don't have Gophers over here however we do have Phenology and they observe that spring is getting earlier as would be expected in a warming climate.

I'm sorry were you trying to derail the thread?


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
02-03-2017 19:46
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
Wake wrote: To put this into perspective the latest issue of Smithsonian Magazine has an article from a rather too famous Dr. Thomas McGovern that discusses Greenland and how conditions NOW are not as warm as they were when the Viking Settlements on Greenland were supporting some 2,500 people. Greenland is not capable of supporting a portion of that presently without heavy outside support.

To put things into an even better perspective, all of the Greenland ice sheet is rapidly accumulating ice. The idea that the Greenland ice sheet is somehow losing ice is a hoax bigger than Bigfoot or UFOs.

Anything left out on the Greenland ice sheet quickly becomes buried in ice. It has been happening all this past century, all across the Greenland ice sheet. Some points accumulate ice more rapidly than others but all points on the Greenland ice sheet measure ice accumulation in meters per year. Read up on Glacier Girl.

The exact same is happening with Antarctica. Very tall antenna towers that were installed a decade or two ago now only sport their very tops sticking out of the ice.

Wake wrote: What peer reviewed means is that the article has been published in a area in which it COULD be criticized by other's of the same educational background it they cared to.

Nope. "Peer Review" simply means that a PUBLISHER has reviewed it ... nothing more.

Publishers make or lose money on what they publish and so they do quality checks for going to copy. Their only interest is the purchase/subscription of the publication.

Publishers do not determine science. They determine the layout and the font.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
02-03-2017 19:50
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
spot wrote:
Wake wrote:
spot wrote:
Glad to see that this has gotten so much response, keep it at the top, people will read the title and educate themselves on what is really going on in the world, I can't see them wallowing through post after post about different peoples opinion on what the well established Stefan-Boltzmann law means to basic assumptions about atmospheric physics.

Congratulations to GasGuzzler for actually reading it.

1:Ticks and mosquitoes become more active

no but its not a good thing

2:You are going to be miserable for along time

Yes I do have asthma so you are right, hope that makes you happy

3:Food sources could be destroyed suddenly

Possibly But I thought you were here to dispute everything for shits and giggles.

4:There will come a time when there are no flowers or honey, and the birds and bees will be unhealthy and possibly worse.

I don't know about that I would have to look into it.


5) Don't even get me started on the Caribou calves dying. What a crock.

You are an expert on this more then scientists who study Caribou? Good for you! Quick question how do you know all this because If I am totally honest I don't think If I looked into this I would find it's "a crock" as you claim.


Do you know who Punxsutawney Phil is? Do you know WHERE he is situated? Are you aware that if he sees his shadow ON FEBRUARY 2 they say that there will be six more weeks of winter?

What sort of arithmetic capacity do you have? Try to consider what that means.

Gee - NORMALLY in Pennsylvania spring would start in early February.

But according to you it should last until late August - what date was that again?

You are showing your intellect more and more each day.


We don't have Gophers over here however we do have Phenology and they observe that spring is getting earlier as would be expected in a warming climate.

I'm sorry were you trying to derail the thread?


I have already suggested you get this thing called a "magazine" that is published by the Smithsonian Institute. They probably aren't a reputable source to your type but this month there is an article on Greenland that shows that conditions there during the Medieval Warm Period were much more moderate than today.

Do you suppose that spring was coming earlier then?

Or is someone with the intellectual capacity of a gnat not capable of thinking in those terms?
02-03-2017 19:53
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
IBdaMann wrote:
Wake wrote: What peer reviewed means is that the article has been published in a area in which it COULD be criticized by other's of the same educational background it they cared to.

Nope. "Peer Review" simply means that a PUBLISHER has reviewed it ... nothing more. .


peer re·view
noun
1.
evaluation of scientific, academic, or professional work by others working in the same field.
02-03-2017 19:56
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner wake-me-up" woofs: On March 17, 1959 the USS Skate surfaced at the North Pole into clear water.

Of course, the Nautilus was first sub under the North Pole sea ices. The portion of the Arctic travel thru the Bering Strait was interesting as WIKI details:
The most difficult part of the journey was in the Bering Strait. The ice extended as much as 60 feet (18 m) below sea level(which means sea ices were ~ 6 feet above sea level) even in the Bering Strait). During the initial attempt to go through the Bering Strait, there was insufficient room between the ice and the sea bottom. During the second, successful attempt to pass through the Bering passage, the submarine passed through a known channel close to Alaska.....
During the address announcing the journey, the president mentioned that one day nuclear cargo submarines might use that route for trade.[19]
/////
The last sentence is a ha ha ha, since present plans(& accomplishments) are (& have) used surface craft THRU the Northwest Passage, since Arctic sea ices are vastly decreasing. Already, to date Arctic sea ice is 10,600 cubic kilometers (an equivalent cube 22 kilometers by 22kilometers by 65000 feet high) LESS THAN THAT OF THE AVERAGE YEAR OF THE 1980'S.
Thank you, "old sick silly sleepy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner wake-me-up" for helping highlight the powerfully decreasing amount of Arctic sea ice.
Edited on 02-03-2017 20:04
02-03-2017 20:00
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
Wake wrote:

While we're at it - I have been wondering why you post that IB said that the atmosphere in and of itself is not a blackbody.

I would like you to tell me why you consider that incorrect. It is total fools like you that give normal fools a bad name.


Because his claims are silly although he is pompous and has some some knowledge its trivially easy to prove him wrong yet he thinks that he has some great insight that everyone who studied this for the last 180 years has missed.

He thinks that the Stefan Boltzmann law proves the greenhouse affect wrong. However one problem among many is that the Stefan Boltzmann law applies to blackbodies and he admits air is not a black-body although he seems to think that gasses in there pure form are, which is silly.

He also entertainingly lies about the contents of textbooks that people scan and post to the forum.

Notice I don't defend litesong because I know he is a nut although he is on my side. But if you want to defend and team up with nuts just because they are on your Team be my guest.


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
02-03-2017 20:01
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
[b]IBdaMann wrote:[/b
To put things into an even better perspective, all of the Greenland ice sheet is rapidly accumulating ice. The idea that the Greenland ice sheet is somehow losing ice is a hoax bigger than Bigfoot or UFOs.

Anything left out on the Greenland ice sheet quickly becomes buried in ice. It has been happening all this past century, all across the Greenland ice sheet. Some points accumulate ice more rapidly than others but all points on the Greenland ice sheet measure ice accumulation in meters per year. Read up on Glacier Girl.

The exact same is happening with Antarctica. Very tall antenna towers that were installed a decade or two ago now only sport their very tops sticking out of the ice.


If you look at http://nsidc.org/greenland-today/ you will see that Greenland doesn't appear to be gaining any ice mass. But neither is it losing any.

During the warm period earlier in the century it pretty obviously lost mass, but the hiatus appears to be signalling that the warm period is over. Though we won't be able to say for certain until we have a definite downward trend.
02-03-2017 20:03
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
Wake wrote:

I have already suggested you get this thing called a "magazine" that is published by the Smithsonian Institute. They probably aren't a reputable source to your type but this month there is an article on Greenland that shows that conditions there during the Medieval Warm Period were much more moderate than today.

Do you suppose that spring was coming earlier then?

Or is someone with the intellectual capacity of a gnat not capable of thinking in those terms?


I willing to change my mind in the face of evidence of course but as a betting man am confident that If read it I would find that it does not back you up and would find that you or the blog where you heard about it from is misrepresenting it.


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
02-03-2017 20:09
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1875)
No, not an expert on Caribou.... never even laid eyes on one. But I am an avid woodsman in the Midwest and I do know a bit about wildlife here, and some basic concepts have to apply anywhere.

Cold is one of the hardest things for large animals to cope with. Extreme cold forces the animal to get up and burn energy to go find food, in hopes it finds more resources than it uses in doing so. This is typically during a time when nutrients are not readily available. Brutal survival.

Spring cold is also a heavy killer for newborns. A calf that drops too early in the spring is susceptible to a spring storm and cold snap that drastically drops the survival chance. A warm spring would be the opposite effect.

So you see the author of this "crock" actually misses a golden opportunity.
It would read like this.

Due to global warming, the caribou population has risen to unmanageable levels, and more hunting permits have been issued. The horrible murder murder of the caribou will bring the numbers back down to reasonable levels.

See? Even I could write this crap.


All the time the base and surface are at equal temperature as the equilibrium graduates to establish the temperature development--Pete Rogers
02-03-2017 20:13
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
Wake wrote:peer re·view
noun
1.
evaluation of scientific, academic, or professional work by others working in the same field.

Great, you're one of those who thinks the dictionary (whichever one) is a valid textbook.

Please note that the definition above has omitted the words "... at the behest of a publisher for the purposes of making a publishing decision, or for making edits to a publication for improved sales."

Science is not produced by the "peer review" process.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
02-03-2017 20:13
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
spot wrote:
Wake wrote:

While we're at it - I have been wondering why you post that IB said that the atmosphere in and of itself is not a blackbody.

I would like you to tell me why you consider that incorrect. It is total fools like you that give normal fools a bad name.


Because his claims are silly although he is pompous and has some some knowledge its trivially easy to prove him wrong yet he thinks that he has some great insight that everyone who studied this for the last 180 years has missed.

He thinks that the Stefan Boltzmann law proves the greenhouse affect wrong. However one problem among many is that the Stefan Boltzmann law applies to blackbodies and he admits air is not a black-body although he seems to think that gasses in there pure form are, which is silly.

He also entertainingly lies about the contents of textbooks that people scan and post to the forum.

Notice I don't defend litesong because I know he is a nut although he is on my side. But if you want to defend and team up with nuts just because they are on your Team be my guest.


You don't even know what he's thinking. You've even argued with me concerning the energy balance of the Earth using grade school pictures that while right in the general sense are totally misleading in reality. The very fact that fossil fuel exists disproves the idea that the Earth can be treated as a "blackbody" and has ALWAYS been treated as a greybody by knowledgeable scientists.

Either grow up or hide under your bed from the coming doom.
02-03-2017 20:14
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
GasGuzzler wrote:
No, not an expert on Caribou.... never even laid eyes on one. But I am an avid woodsman in the Midwest and I do know a bit about wildlife here, and some basic concepts have to apply anywhere.

Cold is one of the hardest things for large animals to cope with. Extreme cold forces the animal to get up and burn energy to go find food, in hopes it finds more resources than it uses in doing so. This is typically during a time when nutrients are not readily available. Brutal survival.

Spring cold is also a heavy killer for newborns. A calf that drops too early in the spring is susceptible to a spring storm and cold snap that drastically drops the survival chance. A warm spring would be the opposite effect.

So you see the author of this "crock" actually misses a golden opportunity.
It would read like this.

Due to global warming, the caribou population has risen to unmanageable levels, and more hunting permits have been issued. The horrible murder murder of the caribou will bring the numbers back down to reasonable levels.

See? Even I could write this crap.


So an animal that has adapted to cold over millions of years of evolution does better in the warm, interesting theory you have did you invent it all by yourself? That explains the polar bear on that island in lost.


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
02-03-2017 20:15
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
Wake wrote:
spot wrote:
Wake wrote:

While we're at it - I have been wondering why you post that IB said that the atmosphere in and of itself is not a blackbody.

I would like you to tell me why you consider that incorrect. It is total fools like you that give normal fools a bad name.


Because his claims are silly although he is pompous and has some some knowledge its trivially easy to prove him wrong yet he thinks that he has some great insight that everyone who studied this for the last 180 years has missed.

He thinks that the Stefan Boltzmann law proves the greenhouse affect wrong. However one problem among many is that the Stefan Boltzmann law applies to blackbodies and he admits air is not a black-body although he seems to think that gasses in there pure form are, which is silly.

He also entertainingly lies about the contents of textbooks that people scan and post to the forum.

Notice I don't defend litesong because I know he is a nut although he is on my side. But if you want to defend and team up with nuts just because they are on your Team be my guest.


You don't even know what he's thinking. You've even argued with me concerning the energy balance of the Earth using grade school pictures that while right in the general sense are totally misleading in reality. The very fact that fossil fuel exists disproves the idea that the Earth can be treated as a "blackbody" and has ALWAYS been treated as a greybody by knowledgeable scientists.

Either grow up or hide under your bed from the coming doom.



IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
02-03-2017 20:18
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
Wake wrote:

You don't even know what he's thinking. You've even argued with me concerning the energy balance of the Earth using grade school pictures that while right in the general sense are totally misleading in reality. The very fact that fossil fuel exists disproves the idea that the Earth can be treated as a "blackbody" and has ALWAYS been treated as a greybody by knowledgeable scientists.

Either grow up or hide under your bed from the coming doom.


No I don't know what he is thinking but I know what he is writing and its bollocks. he is the one who thinks everything is a blackbody so If you want to have that argument take it up with him not me.


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
02-03-2017 20:18
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
IBdaMann wrote: Science is not produced by the "peer review" process. .


You're quite right there but that isn't at all the same as a peer reviewed journal most of which are hurting so badly for material that they would publish papers based on the mathematical probability in a monopoly game.
02-03-2017 20:25
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
spot wrote:
I willing to change my mind in the face of evidence of course but as a betting man am confident that If read it I would find that it does not back you up and would find that you or the blog where you heard about it from is misrepresenting it.


As I noted, you don't accept the Smithsonian Institute as a knowledgeable source.
02-03-2017 20:26
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
Wake wrote:
spot wrote:
I willing to change my mind in the face of evidence of course but as a betting man am confident that If read it I would find that it does not back you up and would find that you or the blog where you heard about it from is misrepresenting it.


As I noted, you don't accept the Smithsonian Institute as a knowledgeable source.


I do I just don't accept your word on what we can take away from it.


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
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