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Nitrate Reduction - Powerful Greenhouse Gas Emission AND Alkalinity



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08-05-2022 05:07
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
sealover wrote:
Rethinking Wastewater Treatment to Generate Alkalinity.

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
Wastewater treatment requires, at some point, removing nitrate before effluent can be discharged.

No, it doesn't. Nitrate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
The bacteria employed are typically denitrifiers (2 species for 2 steps) or annamox bacteria.

Annamox can be used when both nitrate and ammonium are present. The two are combined to make nitrogen gas released from the water to the atmosphere.

No such chemicals. Ammonium nitrate is not nitrogen gas.
sealover wrote:
Denitrifiers are used when all the ammonium is oxidized to nitrate. One species reduces nitrate to nitrate, using organic carbon oxidation as energy source. The second species reduces nitrite to nitrogen gas released from the water to the atmosphere.

No such chemicals.
sealover wrote:
What if we rethink it a bit and exploit wastewater treatment as a source of alkalinity for the sea AND a source of useful nitrogen fertilizer?

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
Another kind of nitrate reducing bacteria perform dissimilatory reduction of nitrate to ammonium (DNRA), using organic carbon oxidation as energy source.

Carbon isn't organic. No such chemicals as nitrate or ammonium.
sealover wrote:
The alkalinity they generate could go to the sea in the treated effluent.

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
The ammonium could be captured by ion exchange or other means to use as fertilizer, rather than lost to the atmosphere as nitrogen gas.

No such chemical as ammonium.


The chemical formula for ammonium is NH4, and please sniff some

Ammonium is derived from ammonia by combination with a hydrogen ion and known in compounds (such as salts) that resemble in properties the compounds of the alkali metals.

Not a chemical.


NH4 is most certainly a chemical as it's chemical formula demonstrates
08-05-2022 05:38
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
sealover wrote:
Rethinking Wastewater Treatment to Generate Alkalinity.

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
Wastewater treatment requires, at some point, removing nitrate before effluent can be discharged.

No, it doesn't. Nitrate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
The bacteria employed are typically denitrifiers (2 species for 2 steps) or annamox bacteria.

Annamox can be used when both nitrate and ammonium are present. The two are combined to make nitrogen gas released from the water to the atmosphere.

No such chemicals. Ammonium nitrate is not nitrogen gas.
sealover wrote:
Denitrifiers are used when all the ammonium is oxidized to nitrate. One species reduces nitrate to nitrate, using organic carbon oxidation as energy source. The second species reduces nitrite to nitrogen gas released from the water to the atmosphere.

No such chemicals.
sealover wrote:
What if we rethink it a bit and exploit wastewater treatment as a source of alkalinity for the sea AND a source of useful nitrogen fertilizer?

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
Another kind of nitrate reducing bacteria perform dissimilatory reduction of nitrate to ammonium (DNRA), using organic carbon oxidation as energy source.

Carbon isn't organic. No such chemicals as nitrate or ammonium.
sealover wrote:
The alkalinity they generate could go to the sea in the treated effluent.

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
The ammonium could be captured by ion exchange or other means to use as fertilizer, rather than lost to the atmosphere as nitrogen gas.

No such chemical as ammonium.


The chemical formula for ammonium is NH4, and please sniff some

Ammonium is derived from ammonia by combination with a hydrogen ion and known in compounds (such as salts) that resemble in properties the compounds of the alkali metals.

Not a chemical.


NH4 is most certainly a chemical as it's chemical formula demonstrates

Not a chemical.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
08-05-2022 05:46
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(11757)
Swan wrote:Is this really a worthwhile use of your talents?

To ask you a question?

I noticed that asking you if an alligator is amphibious makes you go apoplectic, so I figure asking you what definition of "chemical" you are using might just make you explode all over your computer screen ... so I had to try.

Swan wrote:Do you do everything that you are told

I certainly do everything you tell me to do. What definition of "chemical" am I to use?

Swan wrote:Is this getting you to your goals?

You didn't explode, did you? ... so, I guess not.

Swan wrote:PS I use the same chemical formulas as all PHD chemist, what definition do you use?

So we're right back to your lack of English comprehension. You just answered a question about chemistry formulas that was not asked, and have not answered the question that was asked about your definition of "chemical."

I'm beginning to appreciate the difficulties you face on a daily basis. You appear to be coping quite well, I'll have you know.

.
08-05-2022 15:13
SwanProfile picture★★★★☆
(1220)
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
sealover wrote:
Rethinking Wastewater Treatment to Generate Alkalinity.

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
Wastewater treatment requires, at some point, removing nitrate before effluent can be discharged.

No, it doesn't. Nitrate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
The bacteria employed are typically denitrifiers (2 species for 2 steps) or annamox bacteria.

Annamox can be used when both nitrate and ammonium are present. The two are combined to make nitrogen gas released from the water to the atmosphere.

No such chemicals. Ammonium nitrate is not nitrogen gas.
sealover wrote:
Denitrifiers are used when all the ammonium is oxidized to nitrate. One species reduces nitrate to nitrate, using organic carbon oxidation as energy source. The second species reduces nitrite to nitrogen gas released from the water to the atmosphere.

No such chemicals.
sealover wrote:
What if we rethink it a bit and exploit wastewater treatment as a source of alkalinity for the sea AND a source of useful nitrogen fertilizer?

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
Another kind of nitrate reducing bacteria perform dissimilatory reduction of nitrate to ammonium (DNRA), using organic carbon oxidation as energy source.

Carbon isn't organic. No such chemicals as nitrate or ammonium.
sealover wrote:
The alkalinity they generate could go to the sea in the treated effluent.

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
The ammonium could be captured by ion exchange or other means to use as fertilizer, rather than lost to the atmosphere as nitrogen gas.

No such chemical as ammonium.


The chemical formula for ammonium is NH4, and please sniff some

Ammonium is derived from ammonia by combination with a hydrogen ion and known in compounds (such as salts) that resemble in properties the compounds of the alkali metals.

Not a chemical.


NH4 is most certainly a chemical as it's chemical formula demonstrates

Not a chemical.


LOL can you explain in detail why NH4 is not a chemical?

Nope all you can do is what they tell you to do
08-05-2022 20:51
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
sealover wrote:
Rethinking Wastewater Treatment to Generate Alkalinity.

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
Wastewater treatment requires, at some point, removing nitrate before effluent can be discharged.

No, it doesn't. Nitrate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
The bacteria employed are typically denitrifiers (2 species for 2 steps) or annamox bacteria.

Annamox can be used when both nitrate and ammonium are present. The two are combined to make nitrogen gas released from the water to the atmosphere.

No such chemicals. Ammonium nitrate is not nitrogen gas.
sealover wrote:
Denitrifiers are used when all the ammonium is oxidized to nitrate. One species reduces nitrate to nitrate, using organic carbon oxidation as energy source. The second species reduces nitrite to nitrogen gas released from the water to the atmosphere.

No such chemicals.
sealover wrote:
What if we rethink it a bit and exploit wastewater treatment as a source of alkalinity for the sea AND a source of useful nitrogen fertilizer?

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
Another kind of nitrate reducing bacteria perform dissimilatory reduction of nitrate to ammonium (DNRA), using organic carbon oxidation as energy source.

Carbon isn't organic. No such chemicals as nitrate or ammonium.
sealover wrote:
The alkalinity they generate could go to the sea in the treated effluent.

Buzzword fallacy.
sealover wrote:
The ammonium could be captured by ion exchange or other means to use as fertilizer, rather than lost to the atmosphere as nitrogen gas.

No such chemical as ammonium.


The chemical formula for ammonium is NH4, and please sniff some

Ammonium is derived from ammonia by combination with a hydrogen ion and known in compounds (such as salts) that resemble in properties the compounds of the alkali metals.

Not a chemical.


NH4 is most certainly a chemical as it's chemical formula demonstrates

Not a chemical.


LOL can you explain in detail why NH4 is not a chemical?

Can you explain why NH4 is a chemical? Is it a powder? A liquid? What color is it? How much does it cost per pound? Do you have to strip mine it?
Swan wrote:
Nope all you can do is what they tell you to do

Who are 'they'???

You are hallucinating again.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
RE: Nitrate, sulfate, iron, and manganese reduction = ALKALINITY10-05-2022 22:42
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
sealover wrote:
Nitrate reduction by bacteria under low oxygen conditions generates alkalinity and it generates nitrous oxide, a powerful greenhouse gas.

Denitrification and dissimilatory reduction of nitrate to ammonium are the two major pathways of microbiological nitrate reduction.

Both pathways use nitrate as oxidant to get energy from oxidation of organic carbon.

Both pathways generate alkalinity, rather than carbon dioxide, as the oxidized inorganic carbon product.

Both pathways generate nitrous oxide as a by product.

Denitrification transforms nitrate-nitrogen into nitrogen gas. For better or worse, that nitrogen leaves the system.

Dissimilatory reduction of nitrate to ammonium transforms the highly mobile and easily leached nitrate-nitrogen into ammonium, which can be adsorbed to cation exchange sites and held in place against leaching. Furthermore, ammonium cannot be lost from the system by denitrification.



Nitrate, sulfate, iron, and manganese reduction = ALKALINITY

Under low oxygen conditions, bacteria can use nitrate, sulfate, ferric iron or iron(III), or manganese(IV) as oxidants to derive energy from the oxidation of organic carbon.

Aerobic respiration, where oxygen is used to oxidize organic carbon, produced carbon dioxide (CO2) as the oxidized carbon product.

The low oxygen metabolic pathways using nitrate, sulfate, iron(III), or manganese (IV) all generate ALKALINITY (as bicarbonate or carbonate anions) as the oxidized carbon product.

It's a bit more complex with Fe(III) or Mn(IV). They are not oxyanions like nitrate and sulfate, so there is no anion charge directly transferred along with the oxygen that is combined with the organic carbon.

Ferric iron or Fe(III) is only slightly soluble at near neutral pH. It is not bioavailable.

Ferrous iron or Fe(II) is much more soluble at near neutral pH. It is bioavailable.

Manganese(IV) is only slightly soluble at near neutral pH.

Manganese(II) is much more soluble at near neutral pH.

Organisms require small amounts of manganese as a nutrient element.

In the low oxygen underlying sediments of wetlands, manganese(IV) reduction by microorganisms can generate concentrations of manganese(II) in groundwater that are so high it can be a manganese toxicity hazard to humans.

Fortunately, nobody in their right mind uses wetland groundwater as a source of drinking water.

With the tragic exception of South Asia and Southeast Asia where over a hundred thousand shallow tube wells were installed, beginning in the 1970s.

Arsenic, as arsenite anion, is more toxic than manganese(II) at ANY concentration in drinking water.

Arsenate is another oxyanion that some bacteria can use as oxidant for organic carbon under low oxygen conditions. That long list of oxyanions includes many others besides nitrate and sulfate - molybdate, selenate, phosphate, borate...

ALL of these low oxygen metabolic pathways for oxidation of organic carbon generate ALKALINITY (as bicarbonate or carbonate) rather than carbon dioxide.
11-05-2022 06:26
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Im a BM wrote:
Nitrate, sulfate, iron, and manganese reduction = ALKALINITY

Buzzword fallacy.
Im a BM wrote:
Under low oxygen conditions, bacteria can use nitrate, sulfate, ferric iron or iron(III), or manganese(IV) as oxidants to derive energy from the oxidation of organic carbon.

No such chemical as 'nitrate', 'sulfate', 'ferric iron', or 'iron(III), or 'manganese(IV). Carbon isn't organic.
Im a BM wrote:
Aerobic respiration, where oxygen is used to oxidize organic carbon, produced carbon dioxide (CO2) as the oxidized carbon product.

Carbon isn't organic, Neither is carbon dioxide.
Im a BM wrote:
The low oxygen metabolic pathways using nitrate, sulfate, iron(III), or manganese (IV) all generate ALKALINITY (as bicarbonate or carbonate anions) as the oxidized carbon product.

Buzzword fallacies. Gibber-babble.
Im a BM wrote:
It's a bit more complex with Fe(III) or Mn(IV). They are not oxyanions like nitrate and sulfate, so there is no anion charge directly transferred along with the oxygen that is combined with the organic carbon.

No such chemicals. Carbon isn't organic.
Im a BM wrote:
Ferric iron or Fe(III) is only slightly soluble at near neutral pH. It is not bioavailable.

No such chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Ferrous iron or Fe(II) is much more soluble at near neutral pH. It is bioavailable.

No such chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Manganese(IV) is only slightly soluble at near neutral pH.
Manganese(II) is much more soluble at near neutral pH.

No such chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Organisms require small amounts of manganese as a nutrient element.

So?
Im a BM wrote:
In the low oxygen underlying sediments of wetlands, manganese(IV) reduction by microorganisms can generate concentrations of manganese(II) in groundwater that are so high it can be a manganese toxicity hazard to humans.

So?
Im a BM wrote:
Fortunately, nobody in their right mind uses wetland groundwater as a source of drinking water.

Compositional error fallacy, and a lie.
Im a BM wrote:
With the tragic exception of South Asia and Southeast Asia where over a hundred thousand shallow tube wells were installed, beginning in the 1970s.

Shallow wells are not necessarily toxic. Compositional error fallacy.
Im a BM wrote:
Arsenic, as arsenite anion, is more toxic than manganese(II) at ANY concentration in drinking water.

There is no such chemical as 'arsenite anion' or manganese(II).
Im a BM wrote:
Arsenate is another oxyanion that some bacteria can use as oxidant for organic carbon under low oxygen conditions. That long list of oxyanions includes many others besides nitrate and sulfate - molybdate, selenate, phosphate, borate...

No such chemicals.
Im a BM wrote:
ALL of these low oxygen metabolic pathways for oxidation of organic carbon generate ALKALINITY (as bicarbonate or carbonate) rather than carbon dioxide.

Carbon isn't organic. Buzzword fallacy.

More random gibber babble from you. Trying to sound smart just makes you look dumber.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 11-05-2022 06:26
RE: Pyrite formation - TWO sources of alkalinity12-05-2022 00:30
Im a BM
★★☆☆☆
(158)
Pyrite formation - TWO sources of alkalinity.

During pyrite formation, ferric iron (oxy)hydroxides are reduced to ferrous iron disulfide.

And sulfate is reduced by different bacteria to create the sulfide.

The extra oxygen removed from the (oxy)hydroxides ends up as the oxygen in the acid neutralizing oxyanions bicarbonate and carbonate.

"Pyrite burial", which leaves behind big pieces of the stuff in low oxygen sediments, is the single greatest source of alkalinity in submarine groundwater discharge.

Pyrite oxidation, when two different kinds of bacteria use oxygen to turn it into sulfuric acid and ferric iron, is the single greatest source of acid when wetlands are drained or mountainsides are torn open to expose pyrite to oxygen.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nitrate reduction by bacteria under low oxygen conditions generates alkalinity and it generates nitrous oxide, a powerful greenhouse gas.

Denitrification and dissimilatory reduction of nitrate to ammonium are the two major pathways of microbiological nitrate reduction.

Both pathways use nitrate as oxidant to get energy from oxidation of organic carbon.

Both pathways generate alkalinity, rather than carbon dioxide, as the oxidized inorganic carbon product.

Both pathways generate nitrous oxide as a by product.

Denitrification transforms nitrate-nitrogen into nitrogen gas. For better or worse, that nitrogen leaves the system.

Dissimilatory reduction of nitrate to ammonium transforms the highly mobile and easily leached nitrate-nitrogen into ammonium, which can be adsorbed to cation exchange sites and held in place against leaching. Furthermore, ammonium cannot be lost from the system by denitrification.[/quote]


Nitrate, sulfate, iron, and manganese reduction = ALKALINITY

Under low oxygen conditions, bacteria can use nitrate, sulfate, ferric iron or iron(III), or manganese(IV) as oxidants to derive energy from the oxidation of organic carbon.

Aerobic respiration, where oxygen is used to oxidize organic carbon, produced carbon dioxide (CO2) as the oxidized carbon product.

The low oxygen metabolic pathways using nitrate, sulfate, iron(III), or manganese (IV) all generate ALKALINITY (as bicarbonate or carbonate anions) as the oxidized carbon product.

It's a bit more complex with Fe(III) or Mn(IV). They are not oxyanions like nitrate and sulfate, so there is no anion charge directly transferred along with the oxygen that is combined with the organic carbon.

Ferric iron or Fe(III) is only slightly soluble at near neutral pH. It is not bioavailable.

Ferrous iron or Fe(II) is much more soluble at near neutral pH. It is bioavailable.

Manganese(IV) is only slightly soluble at near neutral pH.

Manganese(II) is much more soluble at near neutral pH.

Organisms require small amounts of manganese as a nutrient element.

In the low oxygen underlying sediments of wetlands, manganese(IV) reduction by microorganisms can generate concentrations of manganese(II) in groundwater that are so high it can be a manganese toxicity hazard to humans.

Fortunately, nobody in their right mind uses wetland groundwater as a source of drinking water.

With the tragic exception of South Asia and Southeast Asia where over a hundred thousand shallow tube wells were installed, beginning in the 1970s.

Arsenic, as arsenite anion, is more toxic than manganese(II) at ANY concentration in drinking water.

Arsenate is another oxyanion that some bacteria can use as oxidant for organic carbon under low oxygen conditions. That long list of oxyanions includes many others besides nitrate and sulfate - molybdate, selenate, phosphate, borate...

ALL of these low oxygen metabolic pathways for oxidation of organic carbon generate ALKALINITY (as bicarbonate or carbonate) rather than carbon dioxide.[/quote]
12-05-2022 03:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18410)
Im a BM wrote:
Pyrite formation - TWO sources of alkalinity.
...deleted excess spam...

You already used this gibber-babble.
Spamming.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
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