Remember me
▼ Content

next 4 years



Page 1 of 212>
next 4 years18-01-2021 04:22
keepit
★★★★★
(2073)
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.
18-01-2021 05:21
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3195)
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.


Not a chance in hell...

Joe, is no leader, and never was. He reads the teleprompter, and follows directions, pretty much like Obama did...

Sometime, in the next week, or two. We will have a migrant caravan at the border. I'm think Mexico isn't likely to put up much of an effort to stop them, turn them around. Biden might get lucky, and Mexico continues to cooperate for a while, but some will still make it. Will Biden just let them in, as promised? It's still a pandemic. These people just walked thousands of miles, in the cold. They should be physically exhausted, under nourished, dehydrated. Perfect, for getting infected with any virus floating around. For their safety, and ours, they need to be detained, and isolated. Just to let them recuperate a little, regain some strength. Detention centers weren't made, to follow CDC guidelines. Not sure if they upgrade, over the past year, since we weren't having caravans reaching the border, thanks to Mexico.

The vaccine deployment is going as fast as can be expected. It's expanding, takes time to get a routine worked out, they improve on it. Not every city has the same resources, or manpower to jab arms. It'll take time to build that up. It's cold and Flu season, so arm jabbers are busy with that too. Could have been training people on the flu vaccine, knowing the covid vaccines were coming.

There is still the impeachment, though Joe isn't involved, he can have some influence. Does he just want it over, and get past it quickly. Or does he want blood, and willing to let Trump have the spotlight for a couple months? Trump on trial, means he's entitled to do-process, witness and evidence. He doesn't have to prove voter fraud, only present the evidence, that lead him to believe it so strongly. Some pretty compelling stuff. I don't think the Senate will convict, anyway even if they waste time on another sham trial. Certainly no penalties warranted like the last time. Besides, they need the Secret Service to watch over Trump, for his safety, and the country's. Trump could hire better security, probably will anyway.

Joe promised to raise taxes, and it's a very bad time to even think it. The people earning over $400,000, are also employers, and business owners. After the pandemic, they are going to be the ones doing the hiring. They also decide pay, and benefits for the new employees. High taxes, means they'll go cheap, with people desperate to get back to work.
18-01-2021 12:52
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8625)
keepit wrote:Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.

No one will see any reason for the formalities of election rituals. No one will somehow believe that his vote counts.

There will be renewed interest in studying contemporary Venezuelan history.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-01-2021 17:27
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1869)
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.

I don't think that they will be better (I've actually been making preparations for suspected difficult times ahead, such as buying a generator, stocking up on fuel, keeping the deep freeze full of food, filling my cupboards with canned goods, and stocking up on other household supplies)
18-01-2021 18:48
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★★
(2020)
If you want a look at what's coming, just watch Biden's Corona Recovery speech. It is quite chilling, even for January standards. Looks like Halloween will come quite early this year.

What is so unbelievable to me is how rapidly the left has created fear, and then pounced on taking control. The narrative being sold now is the federal gov is your only hope for survival, and the masses are buying it.

The next 4 years will be more gov created "crisis", fear mongering, and gov taking more freedoms from We the People as the "urgency" of each "situation" requires it.

The money spent will dwarf any previous presidential term. Small business has been brought to their knees. They will have a choice. Off with their head or work for the gov. Don't believe me?

So we're going to extend emergency nutritional assistance for 43 million children and their families enrolled in the SNAP program through the rest of this year. We'll help hard hit restaurants prepare meals for the hungry, provide food for the families who need it. We will invest $3 billion in sure mothers and their young children have the nutrition they need. This will not only meet our moral obligation we have to one another, but it'll also spur economic growth, get restaurants and workers back on the job.

1. Corona
2. Convince people to fear the corona
3. Shut down business "for your safety"
4. Patiently wait until you are destroyed
5. Blame it on Trump.
6. Put you back to work on the gov tab, funded by taxes taken from the greedy rich people.

See how easy that was? LESS THAN ONE YEAR!!

I could go on and on, but I'll leave with this frightening quote...

Joe Biden: (19:04)
I know what I just described does not come cheaply, but failure to do so will cost us dearly. The consensus among leading economists is we simply can not afford not to do what I'm proposing.

Some day the bills will come due. Who will pay? Hope I don't have to see that day.
18-01-2021 23:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.


No. Life under fascism by oligarchy is no fun.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 00:00
keepit
★★★★★
(2073)
No exaggerations allowed!
19-01-2021 00:53
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1869)
keepit wrote:
No exaggerations allowed!

What exaggerations?
19-01-2021 01:01
James___
★★★★★
(4159)
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.



What if I were to say America's downward spiral will continue? Both parties blame the other party. Yet they're both responsible. And not so surprisingly, this started by increasing America's trade deficit. Economics is not to be denied.
The money borrowed needs to exceed the money exported (removed from circulation). Otherwise the economy cannot grow. Until countries understand this basic economic fact, I'm just not sure what to say.
19-01-2021 01:01
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★★
(2020)
keepit wrote:
No exaggerations allowed!


I will argue with your opinions all day long, but no way in hell would I ever wish for you to be censored. Do you agree?

Do you not find it troubling that it is no longer enough to demonize conservatism and now we must be censored? Do you even know this is happening?

At least 1/2 of this country is conservative, so I offer you a challenge....

Go to Google and see how many pro Trump stories you can find. Good luck.


Showing up with a gun at all is just weird and gross.--tmiddles
19-01-2021 01:08
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★★
(2020)
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.



What if I were to say America's downward spiral will continue? Both parties blame the other party. Yet they're both responsible. And not so surprisingly, this started by increasing America's trade deficit. Economics is not to be denied.
The money borrowed needs to exceed the money exported (removed from circulation). Otherwise the economy cannot grow. Until countries understand this basic economic fact, I'm just not sure what to say.


The economic downward spiral started long ago with the ever increasing safety net entitlements. Wealth is not created by gov checks. Wealth is not created by overspending. Wealth is not created by barrowing. Wealth is created by producing goods and services.

Oh, and just for Keepit...
Wealth is DESTROYED by printing money.


Showing up with a gun at all is just weird and gross.--tmiddles
19-01-2021 01:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.



What if I were to say America's downward spiral will continue? Both parties blame the other party. Yet they're both responsible. And not so surprisingly, this started by increasing America's trade deficit. Economics is not to be denied.
The money borrowed needs to exceed the money exported (removed from circulation). Otherwise the economy cannot grow. Until countries understand this basic economic fact, I'm just not sure what to say.


Money taken from you and sent overseas to support various welfare programs is theft. It doesn't matter if our government prints the money to do it or not.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 01:21
James___
★★★★★
(4159)
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.



What if I were to say America's downward spiral will continue? Both parties blame the other party. Yet they're both responsible. And not so surprisingly, this started by increasing America's trade deficit. Economics is not to be denied.
The money borrowed needs to exceed the money exported (removed from circulation). Otherwise the economy cannot grow. Until countries understand this basic economic fact, I'm just not sure what to say.


The economic downward spiral started long ago with the ever increasing safety net entitlements. Wealth is not created by gov checks. Wealth is not created by overspending. Wealth is not created by barrowing. Wealth is created by producing goods and services.

Oh, and just for Keepit...
Wealth is DESTROYED by printing money.



And Trump didn't help. Your point? Wealth is created by borrowing. By businesses and by private citizens. This increases the amount of money in circulation. If money is removed from circulation through a Trade Deficit, borrowing needs to account for it. Or if business or personal debt is reduced.

If not, then deficit spending by the government is necessary to compensate for the money removed from circulation. Just basic economics. And with me, I think both parties are screwing America over.
With governments printing money, that is Socialism. And if countries accept that as a necessary means to having an advanced economy, then as Trump grew the US economy with deficit spending, it's okay.

p.s., when I vacationed in Russia, they called me an American. In the US, all I hear is "you're not welcomed here".
Edited on 19-01-2021 01:25
19-01-2021 01:27
keepit
★★★★★
(2073)
Don't get me wrong, i'm concerned about the threat of inflation.
The thing is, money has to be printed to prevent permanent and present economic damage to individuals and the economy.
That's just the truth of it.
19-01-2021 01:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.



What if I were to say America's downward spiral will continue? Both parties blame the other party. Yet they're both responsible. And not so surprisingly, this started by increasing America's trade deficit. Economics is not to be denied.
The money borrowed needs to exceed the money exported (removed from circulation). Otherwise the economy cannot grow. Until countries understand this basic economic fact, I'm just not sure what to say.


The economic downward spiral started long ago with the ever increasing safety net entitlements. Wealth is not created by gov checks. Wealth is not created by overspending. Wealth is not created by barrowing. Wealth is created by producing goods and services.

Oh, and just for Keepit...
Wealth is DESTROYED by printing money.


Wealth is not destroyed by printing money. It is just printing money.

Money is not wealth and never was. It is simply a medium of exchange of wealth. It doesn't matter if it's gold, silver, paper Federal Reserve Notes, clamshells, Bitcoin, or copper or tin pennies.

Money is two things:
1) A representation of value (you can buy something with it, or sell something for it. What you buy and sell are wealth. What you sell you use to buy something else. In the end it's only a medium to simplify barter.
2) A unit of account. In other words, you can set a price with it. That price is set according to the natural rules of price discovery on an open market. If people no longer accept a currency, that does affect prices since people no longer trust it as a reliable representation of value anymore.

Why are people losing faith in the dollar?

Because the government is printing so much of them. There is no corresponding increase in wealth. It's becoming like 'play money', like a Monopoly game. Too many dollars for the wealth being created means prices will go up. Printing dollars faster than wealth being created causes inflation.

The government itself is broke.

It can only raise money three ways: it can tax it, borrow it, or print it.

Taxing too much causes revolts, possibly violent.

Borrowing too much means you reach a point where you simply cannot pay it all back. The folks that loaned you their wealth will lose it.

Printing too much means you have inflation.

The government right now has budgets so large, they can't generate enough money anymore except by printing it. This is not just a problem in the federal government. It exists in governments around the world.

This is the first time in world history that almost every nation (with VERY few exceptions) are using a currency that is fiat, and not based on a commodity value (such as gold, silver, copper, platinum, wheat, oil, or anything else).

It's a race to the bottom. The crash is inevitable. It's only a matter of time. It will be a worldwide currency crash...or cash crash. All of these nations are printing too much.

Loaning money to each other as they do to try to stave off the inevitable won't solve the problem.

The situation in the SOA (formerly the federal government) is getting dire. See https://www.usdebtclock.org/.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 01:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.



What if I were to say America's downward spiral will continue? Both parties blame the other party. Yet they're both responsible. And not so surprisingly, this started by increasing America's trade deficit. Economics is not to be denied.
The money borrowed needs to exceed the money exported (removed from circulation). Otherwise the economy cannot grow. Until countries understand this basic economic fact, I'm just not sure what to say.


The economic downward spiral started long ago with the ever increasing safety net entitlements. Wealth is not created by gov checks. Wealth is not created by overspending. Wealth is not created by barrowing. Wealth is created by producing goods and services.

Oh, and just for Keepit...
Wealth is DESTROYED by printing money.



And Trump didn't help.

Actually, he did. Quote a lot. He renegotiated NAFTA successfully to better favor the U.S. He also cut taxes and regulations to get government out of the way of the economy.
James___ wrote:
Your point? Wealth is created by borrowing.

No. Borrowing does not create wealth. Money is not wealth.
James___ wrote:
This increases the amount of money in circulation.

No, it doesn't. Lenders do not print money.
James___ wrote:
With governments printing money, that is Socialism.

No, it isn't. It is simply printing money. Socialism is theft of wealth. Money is not wealth.
James___ wrote:
And if countries accept that as a necessary means to having an advanced economy, then as Trump grew the US economy with deficit spending, it's okay.
...deleted off topic comment...

Trump did not grow the economy by deficit spending.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 01:49
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
keepit wrote:
Don't get me wrong, i'm concerned about the threat of inflation.
The thing is, money has to be printed to prevent permanent and present economic damage to individuals and the economy.
That's just the truth of it.


WRONG.

Printing money does NOT create wealth. Money isn't wealth. Money does not create economies. Money isn't an economy.

You can't print your way out of too much spending or too much debt. The attempt to do so will cause a cash crash.

I guess you forgot about the overprinting that caused the Weimar republic to crash and ultimately throw Germany into the kind of chaos that brought Hitler to power. During that time, Marks were literally worth little more than litter.

I guess you forgot about the overprinting in Mexico that caused the Peso to crash. Mexico hasn't learned. They are headed down this same road again with their new Peso.

I guess you forget about the overprinting that cause the Ruble to crash, or the overprinting that caused the Yen to crash. The new Yen is about to crash again.

Yes. It can happen here.

China has tied it's Juan to the Dollar. When the Dollar crashes, China will too.

Building whole cities with no people to live in them won't save their economy.
Building welfare programs in America won't save our economy. It didn't save Japan, and it won't work here either.

The Euro is not immune either. Germany can't pay for losers like Greece, France, Spain, and Italy forever. What will happen to them when all those dollars devaluing catch up with them?

Already, people are searching for another currency. They are losing faith in the Dollar. Some are investigating Bitcoin, others are investigating SDR's, and still others are investing a return to gold and silver. All can work with modern banking systems and credit systems.

When enough people (a surprisingly small number) settle on a currency, the switch will happen almost overnight. That will be the end of the dollar, and federal programs that are running on tick like they are, and State programs running on tick like they are.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 19-01-2021 02:08
19-01-2021 01:55
keepit
★★★★★
(2073)
You're arguing with yourself ITN, not with me.
19-01-2021 01:57
James___
★★★★★
(4159)
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Don't get me wrong, i'm concerned about the threat of inflation.
The thing is, money has to be printed to prevent permanent and present economic damage to individuals and the economy.
That's just the truth of it.


WRONG.

Printing money does NOT create wealth. Money isn't wealth. Money does not create economies. Money isn't an economy.

You can't print your way out of too much spending or too much debt. The attempt to do so will cause a cash crash.



And now you are supporting the Democratic party's desire to raise the minimum wage to $15. If workers are paid more money, then that will increase tax revenue without increasing taxes.
Also, the US is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in, shouldn't the minimum wage reflect that? Or should it's poverty rate be a reflection of its wealth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m17rt_xo9x0
Edited on 19-01-2021 01:59
19-01-2021 02:04
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★★
(2020)
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.



What if I were to say America's downward spiral will continue? Both parties blame the other party. Yet they're both responsible. And not so surprisingly, this started by increasing America's trade deficit. Economics is not to be denied.
The money borrowed needs to exceed the money exported (removed from circulation). Otherwise the economy cannot grow. Until countries understand this basic economic fact, I'm just not sure what to say.


The economic downward spiral started long ago with the ever increasing safety net entitlements. Wealth is not created by gov checks. Wealth is not created by overspending. Wealth is not created by barrowing. Wealth is created by producing goods and services.

Oh, and just for Keepit...
Wealth is DESTROYED by printing money.


Wealth is not destroyed by printing money. It is just printing money.

Money is not wealth and never was. It is simply a medium of exchange of wealth. It doesn't matter if it's gold, silver, paper Federal Reserve Notes, clamshells, Bitcoin, or copper or tin pennies.

Money is two things:
1) A representation of value (you can buy something with it, or sell something for it. What you buy and sell are wealth. What you sell you use to buy something else. In the end it's only a medium to simplify barter.
2) A unit of account. In other words, you can set a price with it. That price is set according to the natural rules of price discovery on an open market. If people no longer accept a currency, that does affect prices since people no longer trust it as a reliable representation of value anymore.


Correct. My mistake. Should have said printing money destroys the buying power of current money simply by devaluation.


Showing up with a gun at all is just weird and gross.--tmiddles
19-01-2021 02:09
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★★
(2020)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Don't get me wrong, i'm concerned about the threat of inflation.
The thing is, money has to be printed to prevent permanent and present economic damage to individuals and the economy.
That's just the truth of it.


WRONG.

Printing money does NOT create wealth. Money isn't wealth. Money does not create economies. Money isn't an economy.

You can't print your way out of too much spending or too much debt. The attempt to do so will cause a cash crash.



And now you are supporting the Democratic party's desire to raise the minimum wage to $15. If workers are paid more money, then that will increase tax revenue without increasing taxes.
Also, the US is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in, shouldn't the minimum wage reflect that? Or should it's poverty rate be a reflection of its wealth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m17rt_xo9x0


There hasn't been an effective minimum wage in this country for decades. You can do entry level work anywhere for 10/hr.

There should be no minimum wage. Let the free markets work out what the wages should be.


Showing up with a gun at all is just weird and gross.--tmiddles
Edited on 19-01-2021 02:09
19-01-2021 02:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
keepit wrote:
You're arguing with yourself ITN, not with me.


No. I am arguing with you.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 02:12
keepit
★★★★★
(2073)
Don't lose sight of the fact that millions of people are in dire financial straits. When they don't have money, they can't spend money, and then the wealthy can't make any money off of them. It's sort of like a trickle up effect (of loss of financial well being). We may not have seen the worst of this.
19-01-2021 02:17
keepit
★★★★★
(2073)
You say "printing money does not create wealth" and i agree so where is the argument there?
You say, "money isn't wealth" and i agree so where's the argument there?
You say, "money does not create economies" and i agree so where is the argument there?
You say, "money isn't an economy" and i agree so where is the argument there.

It's kind of like Tmid who says you create straw man arguments and i agree.
Edited on 19-01-2021 02:18
19-01-2021 02:18
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Don't get me wrong, i'm concerned about the threat of inflation.
The thing is, money has to be printed to prevent permanent and present economic damage to individuals and the economy.
That's just the truth of it.


WRONG.

Printing money does NOT create wealth. Money isn't wealth. Money does not create economies. Money isn't an economy.

You can't print your way out of too much spending or too much debt. The attempt to do so will cause a cash crash.



And now you are supporting the Democratic party's desire to raise the minimum wage to $15.

Price controls do not work. They always cause shortages. In the case of minimum wage laws, they cause shortages of jobs.
James___ wrote:
If workers are paid more money, then that will increase tax revenue without increasing taxes.

Someone out of work is not paying taxes.
James___ wrote:
Also, the US is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in,

Is it? Why do you say this?
James___ wrote:
shouldn't the minimum wage reflect that?

Price controls don't work.
James___ wrote:
Or should it's poverty rate be a reflection of its wealth?

Define 'poverty rate'. This is a government invented buzzword.

Poor exist in every nation. Ours is no exception, and no State is any exception.
Rich people exist in every nation also. Ours is no exception, and no State is any exception.
Remember that 'poor' and 'rich' are relative and subjective terms.

Whether one is rich or poor is up to that individual, not any government.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 02:25
James___
★★★★★
(4159)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Don't get me wrong, i'm concerned about the threat of inflation.
The thing is, money has to be printed to prevent permanent and present economic damage to individuals and the economy.
That's just the truth of it.


WRONG.

Printing money does NOT create wealth. Money isn't wealth. Money does not create economies. Money isn't an economy.

You can't print your way out of too much spending or too much debt. The attempt to do so will cause a cash crash.



And now you are supporting the Democratic party's desire to raise the minimum wage to $15.

Price controls do not work. They always cause shortages. In the case of minimum wage laws, they cause shortages of jobs.
James___ wrote:
If workers are paid more money, then that will increase tax revenue without increasing taxes.

Someone out of work is not paying taxes.
James___ wrote:
Also, the US is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in,

Is it? Why do you say this?
James___ wrote:
shouldn't the minimum wage reflect that?

Price controls don't work.
James___ wrote:
Or should it's poverty rate be a reflection of its wealth?

Define 'poverty rate'. This is a government invented buzzword.

Poor exist in every nation. Ours is no exception, and no State is any exception.
Rich people exist in every nation also. Ours is no exception, and no State is any exception.
Remember that 'poor' and 'rich' are relative and subjective terms.

Whether one is rich or poor is up to that individual, not any government.




And again, what is the quality of life in the US? That doesn't matter either. Having it better than most still isn't good enough.
19-01-2021 02:32
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★★
(2020)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Don't get me wrong, i'm concerned about the threat of inflation.
The thing is, money has to be printed to prevent permanent and present economic damage to individuals and the economy.
That's just the truth of it.


WRONG.

Printing money does NOT create wealth. Money isn't wealth. Money does not create economies. Money isn't an economy.

You can't print your way out of too much spending or too much debt. The attempt to do so will cause a cash crash.



And now you are supporting the Democratic party's desire to raise the minimum wage to $15.

Price controls do not work. They always cause shortages. In the case of minimum wage laws, they cause shortages of jobs.
James___ wrote:
If workers are paid more money, then that will increase tax revenue without increasing taxes.

Someone out of work is not paying taxes.
James___ wrote:
Also, the US is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in,

Is it? Why do you say this?
James___ wrote:
shouldn't the minimum wage reflect that?

Price controls don't work.
James___ wrote:
Or should it's poverty rate be a reflection of its wealth?

Define 'poverty rate'. This is a government invented buzzword.

Poor exist in every nation. Ours is no exception, and no State is any exception.
Rich people exist in every nation also. Ours is no exception, and no State is any exception.
Remember that 'poor' and 'rich' are relative and subjective terms.

Whether one is rich or poor is up to that individual, not any government.




And again, what is the quality of life in the US? That doesn't matter either. Having it better than most still isn't good enough.


The opportunity for quality life has always been a cornerstone of America. How and what you achieve is up to you.


Showing up with a gun at all is just weird and gross.--tmiddles
19-01-2021 02:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Does anyone here think the next 4 years will be better than the last 4 years.



What if I were to say America's downward spiral will continue? Both parties blame the other party. Yet they're both responsible. And not so surprisingly, this started by increasing America's trade deficit. Economics is not to be denied.
The money borrowed needs to exceed the money exported (removed from circulation). Otherwise the economy cannot grow. Until countries understand this basic economic fact, I'm just not sure what to say.


The economic downward spiral started long ago with the ever increasing safety net entitlements. Wealth is not created by gov checks. Wealth is not created by overspending. Wealth is not created by barrowing. Wealth is created by producing goods and services.

Oh, and just for Keepit...
Wealth is DESTROYED by printing money.


Wealth is not destroyed by printing money. It is just printing money.

Money is not wealth and never was. It is simply a medium of exchange of wealth. It doesn't matter if it's gold, silver, paper Federal Reserve Notes, clamshells, Bitcoin, or copper or tin pennies.

Money is two things:
1) A representation of value (you can buy something with it, or sell something for it. What you buy and sell are wealth. What you sell you use to buy something else. In the end it's only a medium to simplify barter.
2) A unit of account. In other words, you can set a price with it. That price is set according to the natural rules of price discovery on an open market. If people no longer accept a currency, that does affect prices since people no longer trust it as a reliable representation of value anymore.


Correct. My mistake. Should have said printing money destroys the buying power of current money simply by devaluation.

You got it. These days, it's more important than ever to remember what money really is and what it isn't.

We are headed for a cash crash and there is no way to avoid it now. It's just a matter of time. This one will probably spread worldwide very quickly.

What will be the new currency? Possibly a basket of them, including possibly Bitcoin, gold, silver, and maybe even SDR's (a world currency, printed by the UN, which happens to have the cleanest balance sheets of all fiat currencies). Personally, I don't SDR's are going to make it, since fiat currencies are leaving a very bad taste in people's mouths these days.

The use of gold and silver, especially for international trade, has a certain attraction. It also has an attraction for use in the States, with silver being the day to day currency (the kind we use to buy groceries).

Several places already accept silver and gold as a method of payment.
Several places already accept Bitcoin as a method of payment also.

Bitcoin does have some issues, notably the problem of exchanges being crooked, and of losing the password to your wallet, and of the Bitcoin transactions being trackable, and of course, the possible failure overnight if the key system to the block chain gets compromised.

Gold in the form of coins is easily tested for purity using the simplest of tools. Silver is somewhat easy to test for weight, but not it's purity. For day to day use, it makes little difference. It's pretty easy to see of something is mostly silver or not. Counterfeit silver coins is no bigger problem than counterfeit $20 Federal Reserve bills.

The big problem with gold and silver is that a lot of people think of them as somehow archaic. This is really not a valid fear. Gold and silver are perfectly compatible with modern banking and credit systems.

Beware the 'paper' gold. There's a LOT more paper than actual gold. Just because a bit of paper says you have a claim of an ounce of gold, it doesn't mean you'll actually get one on demand. You probably won't.

Personally, I think things of actual value will play a much more important part than dollars. Gold, silver, real estate, diamonds, fine art, tools and the skills to use them, most any commodity (not commodity trading), equipment (trucks, tractors, aircraft, ships, etc), and even just the plain old initiative of finding a way to serve others (and get paid for it) is where the real value beyond the dollar lies.

Invest in these things, and will weather the coming storm better than most people around you.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 02:47
James___
★★★★★
(4159)
GasGuzzler wrote:


The opportunity for quality life has always been a cornerstone of America. How and what you achieve is up to you.



Simply not true. Christian coworkers got me fired because I went to a different church. They raised their Bibles at work and promoted what good Christians they were.
I went to 2 different churches. One with my niece who publishes this https://www.seekernews.com/. They also said that they made babies because Jesus loved them. How can a disabled Veteran compete against self promotion?
To quote the Bible;
Matthew 6:24;
"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

They proved I couldn't serve both Jesus and the US of A. And the Bible does support them. Thus I am wrong for believing and having tried to serve both. I accept that I was wrong.

p.s., I was raised in the church because I went with an "American" family.
Edited on 19-01-2021 02:51
19-01-2021 02:51
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
keepit wrote:
Don't lose sight of the fact that millions of people are in dire financial straits.

Yes they are, thanks to the Democrats locking out economic activity.
keepit wrote:
When they don't have money, they can't spend money,

Money isn't wealth. Anyone can create wealth. That's what capitalism is.
keepit wrote:
and then the wealthy can't make any money off of them.

Yes they can. They can hire these people, or they can buy what these people produce as raw materials to make their own product or service.
keepit wrote:
It's sort of like a trickle up effect (of loss of financial well being).

No. It's not a closed system. Capitalism creates wealth. Money is not wealth.
keepit wrote:
We may not have seen the worst of this.

Agreed. Frankly, I don't see how a civil war can be avoided now. What a waste.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 02:53
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
keepit wrote:
You say "printing money does not create wealth" and i agree so where is the argument there?

You do not agree, liar. Your posts indicate otherwise.
keepit wrote:
You say, "money isn't wealth" and i agree so where's the argument there?

You do not agree.
keepit wrote:
You say, "money does not create economies" and i agree so where is the argument there?

You do not agree.
keepit wrote:
You say, "money isn't an economy" and i agree so where is the argument there.

You do not agree.
keepit wrote:
It's kind of like Tmid who says you create straw man arguments and i agree.

You are hallucinating. You are also denying your own arguments.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 02:56
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3195)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Don't get me wrong, i'm concerned about the threat of inflation.
The thing is, money has to be printed to prevent permanent and present economic damage to individuals and the economy.
That's just the truth of it.


WRONG.

Printing money does NOT create wealth. Money isn't wealth. Money does not create economies. Money isn't an economy.

You can't print your way out of too much spending or too much debt. The attempt to do so will cause a cash crash.



And now you are supporting the Democratic party's desire to raise the minimum wage to $15. If workers are paid more money, then that will increase tax revenue without increasing taxes.
Also, the US is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in, shouldn't the minimum wage reflect that? Or should it's poverty rate be a reflection of its wealth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m17rt_xo9x0


Minimum wage jobs, aren't usually considered careers. They are jobs, that high school kids use to do, before leaving for college, or while looking for a better job. They are temporary jobs people take, between jobs. They are second income jobs. If you were physiologically able, would your kid growing up with dreams of being a burrito roller at Taco Bell, as a career? Or would you hope the set their sights a little higher? Minimum wage are no experience needed jobs. Usually pretty crappy jobs, low expectations, little responsibility.

$15/hr, will just raise the cost of living, and more people would be looking for second incomes, to compensate, and holding onto them. It'll be harder for others to find any work at all, since businesses will also be downsizing staff, to save on operating costs. $15/hr is more than entry level for most places. The current employees won't be seeing cost of living increases, and will lose benefits, pay a larger share of there health insurance, or 'encouraged' to enroll in ObamaCare from the government website.

Basically, you want to pay adults, $15/hr to flip your burgers, play around like kids. And everyone else has to work harder, and get to keep less paycheck. Lot of business make their money of the volume of sales. Keeping their prices low, increases volume. Part of the price, is operating costs, they can sell any lower than cost to produce. The government raising operating cost, raises prices of those products. When the business can't meet the volume of sales, the raise prices, or reduce costs in other ways, usually quality. Consumers pay more, for less value.

Employers will pay employees, just as much as needed, to retain sufficient staff, to generate profits. Turnover, isn't usually a good thing, expensive to replace experienced, trained employees. Minimum wage jobs, don't require skills or experience. Only takes a few minutes to teach how to flip Norwegian Burgers.
19-01-2021 03:06
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Don't get me wrong, i'm concerned about the threat of inflation.
The thing is, money has to be printed to prevent permanent and present economic damage to individuals and the economy.
That's just the truth of it.


WRONG.

Printing money does NOT create wealth. Money isn't wealth. Money does not create economies. Money isn't an economy.

You can't print your way out of too much spending or too much debt. The attempt to do so will cause a cash crash.



And now you are supporting the Democratic party's desire to raise the minimum wage to $15.

Price controls do not work. They always cause shortages. In the case of minimum wage laws, they cause shortages of jobs.
James___ wrote:
If workers are paid more money, then that will increase tax revenue without increasing taxes.

Someone out of work is not paying taxes.
James___ wrote:
Also, the US is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in,

Is it? Why do you say this?
James___ wrote:
shouldn't the minimum wage reflect that?

Price controls don't work.
James___ wrote:
Or should it's poverty rate be a reflection of its wealth?

Define 'poverty rate'. This is a government invented buzzword.

Poor exist in every nation. Ours is no exception, and no State is any exception.
Rich people exist in every nation also. Ours is no exception, and no State is any exception.
Remember that 'poor' and 'rich' are relative and subjective terms.

Whether one is rich or poor is up to that individual, not any government.




And again, what is the quality of life in the US? That doesn't matter either. Having it better than most still isn't good enough.


You have no idea.

You are here on this forum happily typing on your keyboard on a computer system and using telecommunications systems and networks that were only a pipe dream just a few decades ago. You watch Youtube videos and never question the technology behind them that makes this form of entertainment even possible. You buy from Amazon and never question the incredible systems that make delivery of the items you ordered so fast so possible. You get groceries of high quality and have a choice of thousands of products, all within a short walk or drive. You have heat or air conditioning (or both!) and lights and electricity available literally at the touch of a button.

Everyone owning the own computer?? IBM thought that was a ridiculous notion in the 60's and 70's. Even when the personal computer became available in the late 70's, IBM, Xerox, Hewlett-Packard, Digital Equipment Corp, and many others ignore them. "They were just toys.", they said. "It's just a passing fad.", they said. How wrong they were!

Today, you have a computer. The product of capitalism. It is using the internet and secure protocols, a product of capitalism (despite the federal government grants in developing some of the core protocols and initial test networks). You have food. They're practically giving bread away. You have clean water. You have a sanitary disposal system. You have garbage collection. You have all of this and much more, and you say it's not enough???

Okay, you are dissatisfied. Want to get more? Improve your skills and make yourself worth something to somebody. Find the initiative in yourself to go and do it. Your choice in this matter is in your hands.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 03:08
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★★
(2020)
Into the Night wrote:
Gold and silver are perfectly compatible with modern banking and credit systems.


How? Can you explain this? How is a raw material compatible with a digital world? Admitting some ignorance here...
19-01-2021 03:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:


The opportunity for quality life has always been a cornerstone of America. How and what you achieve is up to you.



Simply not true.

It is true, James. You only need get off your butt and do something useful that people are willing to pay for.
James___ wrote:
Christian coworkers got me fired because I went to a different church.


You deny the very gospel you are trying to hide behind.

Serve your fellow man. This is the key. If you are truly serving them, they will pay you for it.
Someone need a sewer line fixed because the mess is backing up from the toilet onto the floor and the toilet is not clogged? People pay plumbers quite well for fixing this.

Someone wants to move? People are willing to pay movers quite a lot to help them out.

Someone is hungry? People are willing to pay well for a good cook.

ALL of these is serving your fellow man. They benefit for what you do for them. They will pay you for what you've done.

Fix cars. Learn to fix aircraft. Become a carpenter. Become a plumber or electrician. Be an artist for a game company. Get a truck and haul stuff for people. Develop marketing analysis software for some sales group. Clean up houses and businesses. Install interior wallboard, carpets, wood floors, etc., help people dejunk their lives. Help people kick their drug habit.

Sitting there and whining isn't going to get you ANYTHING but ridicule.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 03:24
James___
★★★★★
(4159)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Don't get me wrong, i'm concerned about the threat of inflation.
The thing is, money has to be printed to prevent permanent and present economic damage to individuals and the economy.
That's just the truth of it.


WRONG.

Printing money does NOT create wealth. Money isn't wealth. Money does not create economies. Money isn't an economy.

You can't print your way out of too much spending or too much debt. The attempt to do so will cause a cash crash.



And now you are supporting the Democratic party's desire to raise the minimum wage to $15. If workers are paid more money, then that will increase tax revenue without increasing taxes.
Also, the US is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in, shouldn't the minimum wage reflect that? Or should it's poverty rate be a reflection of its wealth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m17rt_xo9x0


Minimum wage jobs, aren't usually considered careers. They are jobs, that high school kids use to do, before leaving for college, or while looking for a better job. They are temporary jobs people take, between jobs. They are second income jobs. If you were physiologically able, would your kid growing up with dreams of being a burrito roller at Taco Bell, as a career? Or would you hope the set their sights a little higher? Minimum wage are no experience needed jobs. Usually pretty crappy jobs, low expectations, little responsibility.

$15/hr, will just raise the cost of living, and more people would be looking for second incomes, to compensate, and holding onto them. It'll be harder for others to find any work at all, since businesses will also be downsizing staff, to save on operating costs. $15/hr is more than entry level for most places. The current employees won't be seeing cost of living increases, and will lose benefits, pay a larger share of there health insurance, or 'encouraged' to enroll in ObamaCare from the government website.

Basically, you want to pay adults, $15/hr to flip your burgers, play around like kids. And everyone else has to work harder, and get to keep less paycheck. Lot of business make their money of the volume of sales. Keeping their prices low, increases volume. Part of the price, is operating costs, they can sell any lower than cost to produce. The government raising operating cost, raises prices of those products. When the business can't meet the volume of sales, the raise prices, or reduce costs in other ways, usually quality. Consumers pay more, for less value.

Employers will pay employees, just as much as needed, to retain sufficient staff, to generate profits. Turnover, isn't usually a good thing, expensive to replace experienced, trained employees. Minimum wage jobs, don't require skills or experience. Only takes a few minutes to teach how to flip Norwegian Burgers.


Basically, you want to pay adults, $15/hr to flip your burgers, play around like kids.



Oops, Dick's Drive In is now paying $17 an hour to flip burgers. And it's owners aren't poor. They also pay for their employees college education. Get out of Florida will ya? You're just stoopid.

https://www.ddir.com/employment/

You're simply disgusting Harvey. If every American lived like you, no one like me would have high speed internet. Also, no one would serve in the military unless they were Mexican. Could you imagine if people had to know Spanish to serve in the Armed Forces? That'd be cheaper.
And Harvey, you're not an American. As you said, you do not support what Abraham Lincoln said;
"that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth".
But as you say Harvey, you support billionaires while having no life, no friends and no family. Your choice.
19-01-2021 03:29
keepit
★★★★★
(2073)
There you go again ITN, printing baloney about what i say and believe. Maybe you can use baloney as currency.
19-01-2021 03:36
James___
★★★★★
(4159)
keepit wrote:
There you go again ITN, printing baloney about what i say and believe. Maybe you can use baloney as currency.


It's actually Bologna and comes from Italy, Bologna, Italy.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism-g187801-Bologna_Province_of_Bologna_Emilia_Romagna-Vacations.html

p.s., in Bologna, the traditional currency is the lira. The lira goes back to the Lyre which Hermes is credited with inventing. And it made Orpheus famous.
https://www.ancient.eu/Lyre/

Don't you guys know anything of history? Or of the Puget Sound area which is not like Tampa Bay.


With Italians using the lira as currency might just show how much the lyre was loved. It might have had such value in those cultures. Basically the same word, pronunciation, etc. but a different spelling.

p.s., if you pay someone $15 an hour to flip burgers, not to have their college education paid for nor to receive any health benefits, welcome to America.
Isn't that sad considering it is already being done and the restaurant chain makes money? Go Trump!! Go Trump!! Go Trump!!! Oops, he doesn't hire Americans.


C'mon, guys, please tell me you knew of this "relationship" between Greek culture/mythology and Italian currency. After all, it's a bunch of Bologna.

2 B a jerk, win someone wins the Super Bowl, is it the Green Bay trophy they win? What about the Starr trophy? Notice a theme here?
For those who don't know, it's the Lombardi trophy named after the Green Bay Packers coach. The Green Bay Packers were originally called the Green Bay Meat Packing Company after their sponsor. Names come from somewhere.
Isn't that interesting in a way? The Green Bay Packers might be the first team to have a corporate sponsor. With Honus Wagner, he refused to let a company promote him because he did not use tobacco products. He said NO. That baseball card is worth millions today because distribution was stopped because he never approved of it. Just some sports history.
If you need to know, it was for chewing tobacco. Honus did not touch or approve of using tobacco products.
Edited on 19-01-2021 04:17
19-01-2021 04:34
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Gold and silver are perfectly compatible with modern banking and credit systems.


How? Can you explain this? How is a raw material compatible with a digital world? Admitting some ignorance here...


It's really pretty simple.

Modern banking and credit systems use bits. The paper money you see is just a small part of the amount of dollars out there. Most of it is in bits only.

Gold and silver transactions can use bits just like any currency. Accounts can be settled in bulk if and when it's necessary. This is actually the way gold worked before.

Credit systems were already in place. So were banks, insurance, and international shipping, and trade.

Gold need not exchange hands for every little transaction, and it didn't back then either.
Silver usually did. It's the day to day currency. Prices wouldn't require you to carry around silver coins by the boatload either. Price discovery still operates in the market the same way as before. You could even trade certificates of deposit instead of actual gold and silver, like they used to. Each bank would print it's own certificates of deposit. Any hold of that claim could get their gold at that bank, and banks would clear interbank transactions in the same way as now.

The only difference is that they would not be Federal Reserve banks, and they would deal in gold or silver, rather than dollars.

Deposit insurance? Well, the FDIC and the FSLIC does not have anywhere near enough money to pay off depositors if a bank were to completely liquidate. There basically isn't any. The only option for that would be print even MORE funny money to replace it, essentially leaving those deposits without the value they had. The FDIC and the FSLIC is a joke. A bad one.

Instead, banks that fail are simply sold to someone else. The bank takes on a new name, and the depositors conduct their transactions almost as if nothing happened. This happens today. Gold would make no difference here.

Gold and silver, can work as a currency. It can work with credit systems. It has done so before. It can work with banking systems. It has done so before and still does so today in some places.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-01-2021 04:36
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
keepit wrote:
There you go again ITN, printing baloney about what i say and believe. Maybe you can use baloney as currency.


Again, you are denying your own arguments. You're gonna have to figure out what you believe, dude.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Page 1 of 212>





Join the debate next 4 years:

Remember me

Related content
ThreadsRepliesLast post
Why is it so cold? In ten more years Americans will be begging for global warming3219-02-2021 21:32
The Godlike Lifestyle Formula Will Help You Get Smarter, Richer, More Beauty, Live To 200 Years1014-08-2020 18:35
SCIENTISTS: 30 Years Of Data Show The 'Godfather' Global Warming Was Wrong1711-02-2020 17:42
What makes IPCC scientists sure warmer air hundreds of millions of years ago due to7106-06-2019 23:39
If Democrats rule America then in 100 years America will be biggest CO2 emitter on the planet126-04-2019 00:41
▲ Top of page
Public Poll
Who is leading the renewable energy race?

US

EU

China

Japan

India

Brazil

Other

Don't know


Thanks for supporting Climate-Debate.com.
Copyright © 2009-2020 Climate-Debate.com | About | Contact