lawful money

keepit wrote: Apparently the dollar bills we use can be exchanged for lawful money. What do they mean for lawful money if not the dollar bills themselves?

keepit wrote:
ibd,
It sound as if you are acknowledging that t bills are money. I would say that when the govt pays off a t bill that t bill is no longer money or debt nor does it draw interest.
To pay it off you can print a new t bill or print money.

keepit wrote:
I don't think of money as debt

keepit wrote:
and it doesn't draw interest.

keepit wrote:
It seems better to print money than to print treasuries.

keepit wrote:
The money will get absorbed into a great big world economy.

keepit wrote:
It's not clear that it will cause significant inflation.

keepit wrote:
We need inflation (2%) anyway.

keepit wrote:
It prevents depression.

keepit wrote:
I'm not so sure the govt will give you gold or silver for dollars any more.

keepit wrote:
I'm not so sure they have enough gold and silver to cover all the money.

keepit wrote:
I'm extremely sorry for the companies that have gone out of business.

keepit wrote:
I don't necessarily blame the govt though.

keepit wrote:
I agree that high interest rates do cause businesses to fail.

keepit wrote:
The fed doesn't have quite as much influence as they think though.

keepit wrote: itn, is it possible yo need a better education?

keepit wrote:a dollar spent is several dollars worth of co2 produced.

keepit wrote: Stop nagging ibd.

keepit wrote: ibd, It sound as if you are acknowledging that t bills are money.

keepit wrote: I would say that when the govt pays off a t bill that t bill is no longer money

keepit wrote:I don't think of money as debt and it doesn't draw interest.

keepit wrote: It seems better to print money than to print treasuries.

keepit wrote: The money will get absorbed into a great big world economy.

keepit wrote: It's not clear that it will cause significant inflation.

keepit wrote: We need inflation (2%) anyway.

keepit wrote: It prevents depression.

keepit wrote: I'm not so sure the govt will give you gold or silver for dollars any more.

keepit wrote: I'm extremely sorry for the companies that have gone out of business. I don't necessarily blame the govt though.

Into the Night wrote:

keepit wrote:
ibd,
It sound as if you are acknowledging that t bills are money. I would say that when the govt pays off a t bill that t bill is no longer money or debt nor does it draw interest.
To pay it off you can print a new t bill or print money.

That's inflation, keepit.

keepit wrote:
I don't think of money as debt

It isn't debt, but it's a liability.

keepit wrote:
and it doesn't draw interest.

It isn't debt.

keepit wrote:
It seems better to print money than to print treasuries.

Inflation.

keepit wrote:
The money will get absorbed into a great big world economy.

No. Dollars are only accepted in the United States (and that may change!).

keepit wrote:
It's not clear that it will cause significant inflation.

It is clear.

keepit wrote:
We need inflation (2%) anyway.

Why?

keepit wrote:
It prevents depression.

What's wrong with depression of prices?

keepit wrote:
I'm not so sure the govt will give you gold or silver for dollars any more.

They don't have it. The dollar is not tied to any commodity. It is purely fiat.

keepit wrote:
I'm not so sure they have enough gold and silver to cover all the money.

Correct. They don't have it.

keepit wrote:
I'm extremely sorry for the companies that have gone out of business.

Blatant lie.

keepit wrote:
I don't necessarily blame the govt though.

I do. Democrats caused it.

keepit wrote:
I agree that high interest rates do cause businesses to fail.

You are not locked in another paradox, keepit. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox.

keepit wrote:
The fed doesn't have quite as much influence as they think though.

You are still locked in that paradox. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox. It's irrational.

Im a BM wrote: Into the Night, ALONE, accounts for nearly 1/4 of ALL posts on this website. How could he possibly NOT be a troll at this point?

Maybe because he offers so much insight into science related to climate change, as in THIS post. Any new member who tries to say ANYTHING about the forbidden term "climate change" will get a LOT of response from ITN.

keepit wrote:
itn,
The dollar is accepted over most of the world.

IBdaMann wrote:

keepit wrote: itn, is it possible yo need a better education?

[eyeroll]

keepit wrote:a dollar spent is several dollars worth of co2 produced.

[eyeroll]

keepit wrote: Stop nagging ibd.

Robert isn't really nagging me.

keepit wrote: ibd, It sound as if you are acknowledging that t bills are money.

If you could read, you'd realize that I differentiated between T-bills and money. I'd tell you to re-read what I wrote, but you can't re-read what you never read in the first place.

keepit wrote: I would say that when the govt pays off a t bill that t bill is no longer money

A T-bill is a loan (a liability) not money (an asset). We already know you are not an accountant.

keepit wrote:I don't think of money as debt and it doesn't draw interest.

Money is an asset, not debt (liability). Should you really be involved in this discussion?

keepit wrote: It seems better to print money than to print treasuries.

There is only one Treasury and it cannot be printed.

Money, however, can be printed.

keepit wrote: The money will get absorbed into a great big world economy.

... causing inflation (i.e. devaluation) of dollars.

keepit wrote: It's not clear that it will cause significant inflation.

Yes, it is clear.

keepit wrote: We need inflation (2%) anyway.

Who is this "we" who needs 2% inflation? I know I don't need it.

keepit wrote: It prevents depression.

We have already stipulated that you are not an economist so you can stop trying to convince us that you are not one.

keepit wrote: I'm not so sure the govt will give you gold or silver for dollars any more.

... but the government can.

keepit wrote: I'm extremely sorry for the companies that have gone out of business. I don't necessarily blame the govt though.

The government put MANY businesses out of business, so of course you won't blame the government.

keepit wrote:
just a bunch of argumentative baloney.

keepit wrote:
itn,
All those misconceptions won't fly. One of my best friends is a serious conservative and he has many misconceptions as well. I don't like to argue with him because it hurts his feelings.

Into the Night wrote: Fiat money is a liability on the issuing bank's books. It is an asset in a business, but not at the Fed.

keepit wrote: I don't know what to say!

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote: Fiat money is a liability on the issuing bank's books. It is an asset in a business, but not at the Fed.

It really doesn't matter what it is to the government. To We the People money is an asset.

Fiat money is different things to the government, depending on where it falls on the books, and the government lives in infamy for being unable to be audited.

keepit wrote:
ibd,
You and itn must be listening to different sources of econ info than i am.
I took an "on line" correspondence course a long time ago so i know the language.
I don't think you 2 know the language or much of any of the conventional economic info. Yet you argue incessantly. Do you get paid for it?

Into the Night wrote:Since the discussion was about government and the issuing bank, that's rather significant, wouldn't you say?

keepit wrote: When Treasury issues a t bill it has to pay interest on it and pay back the principal.

keepit wrote:
itn (often wrong, never in doubt),
What authority are you using to claim my authority is false?

keepit wrote:
By the way - the fed (us central bank) doesn't issue money,

keepit wrote:
it loans money to banks who have to pay it back.

keepit wrote:
The us Treasury issues money but it isn't a bank.

keepit wrote:
At least i've never heard anyone seriously call it a bank.

keepit wrote: ibd, Also, when the treasury issues dollars to pay off a t bill that t bill no longer exists. i.e. it is no longer any kind of liability.

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:Since the discussion was about government and the issuing bank, that's rather significant, wouldn't you say?

We were originally discussing how government overprinting results in inflation which waters down the value of money and reduces our assets.

IBdaMann wrote:
Of course, we were forced to revisit the idea of government printing to repay debt, examining whether those dollars just evaporate into nothing, so in that case, money to the government is like flux to the solderer, i.e. to be increased or decreased as needed to achieve the desired effect.

keepit wrote:
I thought we were talking about "fiat money" vs legal tender money (t bills etc).

keepit wrote:
Both are money and integral to the economic structure.

keepit wrote:
When Treasury issues a t bill it has to pay interest on it and pay back the principal.

keepit wrote:
When the Treasury issues dollars

keepit wrote:
it doesn't have to pay any interest on it doesn't have to pay back the principal (dollar).

keepit wrote:
Which is better when the rest of the world has an appetite for king dollar?

keepit wrote:
King dollar is used by almost every country in the world for international trade in LARGE amounts.

keepit wrote:
ibd,
Also, when the treasury issues dollars to pay off a t bill that t bill no longer exists. i.e. it is no longer any kind of liability.

keepit wrote: So many misconceptions. Wishful thinking.

keepit wrote: Don't forget, we're talking about the huge world economy, not just the us economy.

keepit wrote:What do you think about using fiat money to pay off lawful money debts?

keepit wrote:
So many misconceptions. Wishful thinking.

Don't forget, we're talking about the huge world economy, not just the us economy.

keepit wrote:
What do you think about using fiat money to pay off lawful money debts?

IBdaMann wrote:

keepit wrote:What do you think about using fiat money to pay off lawful money debts?

That is how they are paid.

keepit wrote:
i'm talking about the world economy itn. The more us dollars get out there the more the world likes them.
Maybe the world economy will absorb those dollars.
Inflation is better than default. i think. Not sure though.