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July 2020 - Feeling the Heat?



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July 2020 - Feeling the Heat?06-08-2020 16:12
DRKTS
★★☆☆☆
(304)
Once again in the last month, globally, the Earth set over 7,400 new daily record highs compared to just 1,600 new daily lows.

We also set 180 new all time hi-temperature records, compared to just 7 lows

Data available at: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cdo-web/datatools/records

This has gone on for years now, can anyone seriously still be denying that the Earth is warming?


"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

"To mistrust science and deny the validity of the scientific method is to resign your job as a human. You may as well go look for a job as a plant."
06-08-2020 16:56
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7465)
First Week of July DRKTS wrote:
In the last week, there were 1355 new global record high temperatures set while only 149 new record lows were set. A ratio of 9 to 1.

When the Earth warms the bell curve of the temperature distribution shifts to higher temperatures making record highs more likely than record lows.

It seems to be happening week after week, until only the trolls with politically and/or financially motivated trolls can deny the Earth is warming.


IBdaMann wrote:I love to watch you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to find spurious excuses not to simply post your raw data or your unambiguous definition of Climate ... so it won't be revealed that you don't have any valid raw data or unambiguous definition of Climate.


DRKTS wrote:
Once again in the last month, globally, the Earth set over 7,400 new daily record highs compared to just 1,600 new daily lows.

We also set 180 new all time hi-temperature records, compared to just 7 lows


I love to watch you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to find spurious excuses not to simply post your raw data or your unambiguous definition of Climate ... so it won't be revealed that you don't have any valid raw data or unambiguous definition of Climate. Your EVASION has gone on for years now, can anyone seriously still be denying that you dropped out of high school?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
06-08-2020 18:21
DRKTS
★★☆☆☆
(304)
Address the issue - temperatures rising all over the globe raised by my post. If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it and show quantitatively how it is better than that of the all the World's meteorological agencies.

Posting the same repetitive nonsense over and over again does not make it any less nonsensical just more repetitive.
06-08-2020 18:40
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1792)
DRKTS wrote:
Address the issue - temperatures rising all over the globe raised by my post. If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it and show quantitatively how it is better than that of the all the World's meteorological agencies.

Posting the same repetitive nonsense over and over again does not make it any less nonsensical just more repetitive.


DRKTS wrote:
Address the issue - temperatures rising all over the globe raised by my post. If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it and show quantitatively how it is better than that of the all the World's meteorological agencies.

Posting the same repetitive nonsense over and over again does not make it any less nonsensical just more repetitive.


I'll address the issue.

I went looking for some temperature "data" the other day from the National Weather Service.
This message came up.

Tell me how temperature data needs quality control refinements. If it gets tweaked, it isnt data.


All the time the base and surface are at equal temperature as the equilibrium graduates to establish the temperature development--Pete Rogers
Attached image:


Edited on 06-08-2020 18:41
06-08-2020 18:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7465)
DRKTS wrote: Address the issue - temperatures rising all over the globe raised by my post.

Post the valid dataset that would give a reasonable adult reason to believe that temperatures are rising all over the globe and that you aren't just fear-mongering an empty fiction.

I love to watch you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to find spurious excuses to avoid simply posting your raw data or your unambiguous definition of Climate. You clearly can't afford for it to be revealed that you don't have any valid raw data or unambiguous definition of Climate.

Therefore, the reasonable adult's response to you is that it looks like you are fabricating EVERYTHING you are preaching.

Done. Your "point" has been addressed. You still aren't fooling anyone. Your approach of "If I tell a lie often enough EVERYONE will believe it" isn't working. You still have not posted any raw data.

I love to watch you twist yourself into a pretzel trying to find spurious excuses to avoid simply posting your raw data or your unambiguous definition of Climate. You clearly can't afford for it to be revealed that you don't have any valid raw data or unambiguous definition of Climate.

I never get tired of posting the preceding blurb. Thank you for the inspiration.


Loser.


Fraud.


Liar.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
06-08-2020 19:02
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7465)
GasGuzzler wrote: Tell me how temperature data needs quality control refinements. If it gets tweaked, it isnt data.

However, as part of the NWS certification process, these data are considered preliminary and unofficial until they have gone through final quality control by NCDC. Therefore, these data are subject to revision. Final and certified climate data can be accessed at NCDC.



Account credited.
Attached image:

06-08-2020 22:40
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1214)
DRKTS wrote:
Address the issue - temperatures rising all over the globe raised by my post.

On Monday August 3rd, in the part of Southern Wisconsin where I live, the HIGH temperature for that day reached an "extremely sweltering" 66degF... Yes, you saw that correctly, only 66degF, in Summer, at a time when high temps at my location are usually in the low 80s... I actually had the heat turned on slightly in my car during my commute to work that morning because the "wake-up temp" was so cool for Summer in Southern Wisconsin...

DRKTS wrote:
If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it and show quantitatively how it is better than that of the all the World's meteorological agencies.

YOU'RE the one claiming that the Earth is warming... YOU need to make your case... but you can't, since there is no global temperature data beyond made-up numbers...

DRKTS wrote:
Posting the same repetitive nonsense over and over again does not make it any less nonsensical just more repetitive.

Agreed, so why do you keep doing it?
Edited on 06-08-2020 22:45
06-08-2020 22:43
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1214)
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote: Tell me how temperature data needs quality control refinements. If it gets tweaked, it isnt data.

However, as part of the NWS certification process, these data are considered preliminary and unofficial until they have gone through final quality control by NCDC. Therefore, these data are subject to revision. Final and certified climate data can be accessed at NCDC.



Account credited.

5 bonus points from me as well, but I don't have a cool trophy to go along with it...
07-08-2020 01:00
James___
★★★★★
(3172)
gfm7175 wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote: Tell me how temperature data needs quality control refinements. If it gets tweaked, it isnt data.

However, as part of the NWS certification process, these data are considered preliminary and unofficial until they have gone through final quality control by NCDC. Therefore, these data are subject to revision. Final and certified climate data can be accessed at NCDC.



Account credited.

5 bonus points from me as well, but I don't have a cool trophy to go along with it...


That's not what you told me last night. You told me that I was Venus to your Mercury rising.
07-08-2020 03:03
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1214)
James___ wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote: Tell me how temperature data needs quality control refinements. If it gets tweaked, it isnt data.

However, as part of the NWS certification process, these data are considered preliminary and unofficial until they have gone through final quality control by NCDC. Therefore, these data are subject to revision. Final and certified climate data can be accessed at NCDC.



Account credited.

5 bonus points from me as well, but I don't have a cool trophy to go along with it...


That's not what you told me last night. You told me that I was Venus to your Mercury rising.

You are, hot stuff!
07-08-2020 03:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13295)
DRKTS wrote:
Once again in the last month, globally, the Earth set over 7,400 new daily record highs compared to just 1,600 new daily lows.

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.
DRKTS wrote:
We also set 180 new all time hi-temperature records, compared to just 7 lows

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.
DRKTS wrote:
Data available at: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cdo-web/datatools/records

Random numbers are not data.
DRKTS wrote:
This has gone on for years now, can anyone seriously still be denying that the Earth is warming?

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. Define 'global warming'.
DRKTS wrote:
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Learn what 'fact' means. It does NOT mean 'proof' or 'Universal Truth'.
DRKTS wrote:
"To mistrust science and deny the validity of the scientific method is to resign your job as a human. You may as well go look for a job as a plant."

You deny science. You deny mathematics. You continue to deny the 1st law of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law. You continue to deny statistical mathematics. You continue to quote the same random numbers published by the government as 'data'.

Some government is valid (such as FBI crime statistics). Some is not (such as Covid19 numbers published by the CDC, the temperature of the Earth, or the global atmospheric content of CO2.

Made up shit is not data.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
07-08-2020 03:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13295)
DRKTS wrote:
Address the issue - temperatures rising all over the globe raised by my post.

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. There are nowhere near thermometers to even begin a sensible statistical analysis of this type. There...it's addressed.
DRKTS wrote:
If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it

There is none.
DRKTS wrote:
and show quantitatively how it is better than that of the all the World's meteorological agencies.

You are trying to force a negative proof. That's a fallacy. You don't get to speak for the world. You only get to speak for you. Bigotry. Also a fallacy.
DRKTS wrote:
Posting the same repetitive nonsense over and over again does not make it any less nonsensical just more repetitive.

Inversion fallacy. It is YOU posting the same repetitive nonsense over and over again.

Statistical math is not nonsense. You are denying it.
Probability math is not nonsense. You are denying it.
Random math is not nonsense. You are denying it.
The 1st law of thermodynamics is not nonsense. You are denying it.
The 2nd law of thermodynamics is not nonsense. You are denying it.
The Stefan-Boltzmann law is not nonsense. You are denying it.

You deny math. You deny science. Then you have the gall to claim someone else is stating nonsense???

You're a liar. You ignore what has been shown you. You consider mathematics and science 'nonsense'. You try to use 'fact' as a proof. Your attempt to push Marxism is duly noted and soundly rejected.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
07-08-2020 03:22
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13295)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tell me how temperature data needs quality control refinements. If it gets tweaked, it isnt data.


Kudos to you! An excellent statement! You have earned all the awards bestowed up on by IBdaMann and gfm for this one! I'll my praise as well for saying this so succinctly.

Well argued!


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
07-08-2020 03:41
James___
★★★★★
(3172)
gfm7175 wrote:
James___ wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote: Tell me how temperature data needs quality control refinements. If it gets tweaked, it isnt data.

However, as part of the NWS certification process, these data are considered preliminary and unofficial until they have gone through final quality control by NCDC. Therefore, these data are subject to revision. Final and certified climate data can be accessed at NCDC.



Account credited.

5 bonus points from me as well, but I don't have a cool trophy to go along with it...


That's not what you told me last night. You told me that I was Venus to your Mercury rising.

You are, hot stuff!



And all of my popcorn just popped
07-08-2020 03:48
James___
★★★★★
(3172)
GasGuzzler wrote:
DRKTS wrote:
Address the issue - temperatures rising all over the globe raised by my post. If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it and show quantitatively how it is better than that of the all the World's meteorological agencies.

Posting the same repetitive nonsense over and over again does not make it any less nonsensical just more repetitive.


DRKTS wrote:
Address the issue - temperatures rising all over the globe raised by my post. If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it and show quantitatively how it is better than that of the all the World's meteorological agencies.

Posting the same repetitive nonsense over and over again does not make it any less nonsensical just more repetitive.


I'll address the issue.

I went looking for some temperature "data" the other day from the National Weather Service.
This message came up.

Tell me how temperature data needs quality control refinements. If it gets tweaked, it isnt data.



Gosh, and I just had your baby and now you don't want a paternity test? I thought you loved me? Did you just want a "fill up" and now you're on to the next pump? Just like you IOU ans, always on to the next field looking for that "gas" you so desire.
Always the younger crop, it's just like your type. Last years grain just can't give you "the rise" that you so desperately need. Just like you farmers, always looking for the next field that you can plow. You just love virgin soil.



p.s., for anyone who doesn't know better, corn is ethanol. As for last years crop, just plowed under. A virgin crop that is young and lush and desirable will be here soon. It is so hot waiting for the next crop to mature. Just watching those fresh, young stalks to blossom. When you can see that husks can't hide their young form and it can be such sweet corn when you peel back it's husk.
My grandmother in Kentucky among other things grew her own corn. And often enough for dinner, me and my brothers had to strip them bare to reveal the golden honey awaiting us.
And with the grapes, I can't say how it's like the dew on a woman, nor can I say how it is like the morning dew, this I cannot say.
Edited on 07-08-2020 03:57
07-08-2020 12:52
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3375)
DRKTS wrote:... If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it ....
IBD's position is that not only can you not know the temperature of Earth you can't know the temperature of Denver. GFM cannot even know the temperature of his own home.
gfm7175 wrote:
I have no clue what the temperature of my house is.
IBdaMann wrote:
Into the Night wrote: No one can know the temperature of Denver.
He's absolutely correct....

DRKTS I would find it very valuable if you were to create a topic on the statistics of determining a mean temperature using available data. This is outside my ability but I'd like to understand it better. I'd suggest including something simple, unrelated to weather, as a companion example using the same method.

Just a suggestion/request.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
Edited on 07-08-2020 12:56
07-08-2020 12:54
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
DRKTS wrote:
Address the issue - temperatures rising all over the globe raised by my post. If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it and show quantitatively how it is better than that of the all the World's meteorological agencies.

Posting the same repetitive nonsense over and over again does not make it any less nonsensical just more repetitive.


Judith Little worked at the BOM in Australia all her life and when the claim was made 2016 warmest year on record she was curious and went over every recorded temperature in Australia for the last 30 years and found no increase or decrease of any significant amount.You are choosing to believe the false information put out by American institutions that do it to keep jobs for the boys.The sea has not risen the ice is still forming every year in Hudson bay the Polar bears are fine and next week I should get my CO2 reader and start recording my location.


duncan61
07-08-2020 13:01
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
Front page scandal today in Australia: BoM opens cold case on temperature data

Jennifer Marohasy, Lance Pidgeon, Bureau of Meteorology, Australia, cold temperatures, scandal, adjustments, climate change, global warming.
Jennifer Marohasy, Lance Pidgeon, at the Stevenson screen, Goulburn Airport.

Amazing, the power of the media. Suddenly, the Bureau of Meteorology needs to replace equipment and answer questions and set up an internal inquiry. But they've had weeks of warning. Lance Pidgeon and Jennifer Marohasy have been watching the automatic weather stations record very cold temperatures, and then astonished when those same readings either got entered into our national raw database as warmer, or simply disappeared. The BOM apparently has a filter set so that super cold temperatures need to be manually checked. Yet the filter is set so high, in Thredbo's case, nearly five whole degrees warmer than temperatures already recorded.

Wow. Just wow. What does raw data mean anymore?
The lack of respect for real observations is profoundly unscientific. How much does the BOM even care about understanding our climate if they are so flagrantly uninterested in the data? As I have said, the Bureau of Meteorology behaves more like PR agency than an institute of science. Based on past practice their internal inquiry will find excuses, not answer the questions, and will not fix appalling methodology. The BOM needs a full external audit (what are they so afraid of?). The BOM admits temperature adjustments are secret and thus completely unscientific. If we had a team to audit the dataset, as we requested in 2011, or to replicate the data as I requested in Sept 2014, this erasure of cold temperatures would have been fixed by now. How much data has been lost forever?

The Bureau of Meteorology Budget was 365.3 million in 2015-16. The Australian climate is a national crisis, but the Bureau won't publish it's methods in full, aren't doing basic quality control checks, and can't employ even one person to answer questions about its secret methods?

On July 5th I asked many questions, and now nearly a month later, we still have no answers:

... this opens a whole can of worms in so many ways — what are these "limits", do they apply equally to the high side records, who set them, how long has this being going on, and where are they published? Are the limits on the high temperatures set this close to previously recorded temperatures? How many times have raw records been automatically truncated?

Jennifer Marohasy points out that these stations are used to homogenize other stations which are supposed the best stations used in the ACORN dataset. So when the BOM protest that they are not manipulating the data, it's obvious that they are.

Graham Lloyd, The Australian

The Bureau of Meteorology has ordered a full review of temperature recording equipment and procedures after the peak weather agency was caught tampering with cold winter temperature logs in at least two locations.

Bush meteorologist Lance Pidgeon blew the whistle on the missing data after watching the minus 10.4C Goulburn recording from July 2 disappear from the bureau's website. "The temperature dropped to minus 10.4, stayed there for some time and then it changed to minus 10 and then it disappeared," Mr Pidgeon said.

He relayed his concerns to scientist Jennifer Marohasy, who has queried the bureau's treatment of historical temperature data. After questions were asked, the bureau restored the original recording of minus 10.4C to its website. A bureau spokeswoman said the low recording had been checked for "quality assurance" before being posted.

The bureau said limits were set on how low temperatures could go at some stations before a manual check was needed to confirm them. "The bureau's quality ­control system, designed to filter out spurious low or high values was set at minus 10 minimum for Goulburn which is why the record automatically adjusted," a bureau spokeswoman said.

A similar failure had deleted a reading of minus 10.4 at Thredbo Top on July 16 even though temperatures at that station had been recorded as low as minus 14.7 in the past. That temperature was still blank on the bureau's website yesterday.

The bureau did not respond to questions about how widely the quality control system had been applied and at what upper temperature the cut-off had been set.

Dr Marohasy has evidence of the initial minus 10.4C recording at Thredbo before it was deleted for quality ­assurance.

"This either reflects an extraordinary incompetence, or a determination to prevent evidence of low temperatures," Dr Marohasy said.

Would the BOM be doing anything if The Australian was not being so dedicated and critical?
Where is the ABC or Fairfax? Do they care about the climate?

The Australian has an editorial position on this also: Bureau clouds weather debate

That adjustment process, known as homogenisation, has got the bureau in trouble in the past. Again, the issue has been one of transparency. The bureau has made a series of changes to historical records across the country. It says it does so to adjust for the movement of a weather station site, changes to surrounding vegetation or results that look wrong when compared with nearby sites. Such homogenisation is not unique to Australia but the bureau sometimes fails to convince when asked to explain the specific local adjustments it has made, especially if these bolster a warming trend. The same goes for any practices that discount cold temperatures.

The official record must be accurate and trusted. Otherwise, claims of historic extremes — the hottest winter day! — only mislead and public policy gets corrupted. Even if the bureau does have all the answers, it needs to do a better job of taking the public — sceptics included — into its confidence.

Background Information:
Jennifer Marohasy has been laying out the evidence on her blog:

Bureau Erases Goulburn Record Minimum Temperature: Set Sunday 2 July 2017

Bureau Now Sets Strict Limits on Cooling

Bureau Still Limiting Cooling to Minus 10 Degrees

Bureau Misleads Minister Frydenberg on Goulburn

My last on this: On Sunday, Goulburn got colder than the BOM thought was possible (and a raw data record was "adjusted").

The Australian:

BoM opens cold case on temperature data
07-08-2020 13:05
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3375)
duncan61 wrote:
Judith Little ... found no increase
I tried to google this Duncan and couldn't find it.
07-08-2020 13:05
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
Just went looking for Judith little and found this beauty.The governments of the world are trying so hard to make it all come true
07-08-2020 13:12
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
The heat is on. Bureau of Meteorology 'altering climate figures' — The Australian
Congratulations to The Australian again for taking the hard road and reporting controversial, hot, documented problems, that few in the Australian media dare to investigate.

How accurate are our national climate datasets when some adjustments turn entire long stable records from cooling trends to warming ones (or visa versa)? Do the headlines of "hottest ever record" (reported to a tenth of a degree) mean much if thermometer data sometimes needs to be dramatically changed 60 years after being recorded?

One of the most extreme examples is a thermometer station in Amberley, Queensland where a cooling trend in minima of 1C per century has been homogenized and become a warming trend of 2.5C per century. This is a station at an airforce base that has no recorded move since 1941, nor had a change in instrumentation. It is a well-maintained site near a perimeter fence, yet the homogenisation process produces a remarkable transformation of the original records, and rather begs the question of how accurately we know Australian trends at all when the thermometers are seemingly so bad at recording the real temperature of an area. Ken Stewart was the first to notice this anomaly and many others when he compared the raw data to the new, adjusted ACORN data set. Jennifer Marohasy picked it up, and investigated it and 30 or so other stations. In Rutherglen in Victoria, a cooling trend of -0.35C became a warming trend of +1.73C. She raised her concerns (repeatedly) with Minister Greg Hunt.

Now the Australian Bureau of Meteorology has been forced to try to explain the large adjustments. Australians may finally gain a better understanding of what "record" temperatures mean, and the certainty ascribed to national trends. There is both a feature and a news piece today in The Weekend Australian.


The odd case of Amberley minima. If you live nearby the local thermometer would say that mornings now are slightly cooler for you than they were in 1941. The BOM says otherwise.

Both Jennifer Marohasy and Graham Lloyd are both doing great work here:

The Australian

Bureau of Meteorology 'altering climate figures'
THE Bureau of Meteorology has been accused of manipulating historic temperature records to fit a predetermined view of global warming.

Researcher Jennifer Marohasy claims the adjusted records resemble "propaganda" rather than science.

After a description of some of the problems, the BOM responds to explain the adjustments. Most of it the usual argument from authority, and handwaving about how they are experts and a very complicated technique (that produces odd results) is "likely" right:

"'BOM has rejected Dr Marohasy's claims and said the agency had used world's best practice and a peer reviewed process to modify the physical temperature records that had been recorded at weather stations across the country.

There's a suggestion that the changes don't matter much:

'It said data from a selection of weather stations underwent a process known as "homogenisation" to correct for anomalies. It was "very unlikely" that data homogenisation impacted on the empirical outlooks.

Except we know from Ken's work (and many others in the informal BOM audit team) that the homogenization and adjustments do affect the trends – pushing minima trends of over 100 stations up by nearly 50% compared to the raw data.

'"In a statement to The Weekend Australian BOM said the bulk of the scientific literature did not support the view that data homogenisation resulted in "diminished physical veracity in any particular climate data set''.

'Historical data was homogenised to account for a wide range of non-climate related influences such as the type of instrument used, choice of calibration or enclosure and where it was located.

"All of these elements are subject to change over a period of 100 years, and such non-climate ­related changes need to be ­accounted for in the data for ­reliable analysis and monitoring of trends,'' BOM said.

'Account is also taken of temperature recordings from nearby stations. It took "a great deal of care with the climate record, and understands the importance of scientific integrity".

Translated: We are careful people, "trust us"

Despite Amberley being a good station (as far as anyone can figure) it was adjusted to fit "neighbours" hundreds of kilometers away:

'BOM said the adjustment to the minimums at Amberley was identified through "neighbour comparisons". It said the level of confidence was very high because of the large number of stations in the region. There were examples where homogenisation had resulted in a weaker warming trend.

Amberley is near Brisbane which also shows a cooling raw trend, though other neighbours like Cape Moreton Lighthouse, Bundaberg, Gayndah, Miles, and Yamba Pilot Station have an average warming trend. (See Ken's Kingdom) NASA's Goddard Institute also adjusts the minima at Amberley up by homogenization with other stations. But the radius of those stations is nearly 1,000 km. These other sites may themselves have had real warming, or an urban heat island effect, or other equipment changes or relocations. It's a messy business.

The BOM rarely portrays how complicated and messy it is, nor how much the final trends are affected by their complicated adjustment processes.

Heat is on over weather bureau 'homogenising' temperature records
The Australian

In the case of Rutherglen its neighbours don't show a warming trend, yet it was adjusted up:

'In the case of Rutherglen, she says, the changes do not even appear consistent with a principle in the bureau's own technical manual, which is that changes should be consistent with trends at neighbouring weather stations.

At Burke, in western NSW, BoM deleted the first 40 years of data because temperatures before 1908 were apparently not recorded in a Stevenson screen, the agreed modern method.

Marohasy says this could have been easily accounted for with an accepted algorithm, which would not have changed the fact that it was obviously much hotter in the early 20th century than for any period since. Instead, the early record is deleted, and the post-1910 data homogenised.
07-08-2020 13:19
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
So the big question.If the Earth is not warming do we still have a problem
07-08-2020 13:30
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3375)
duncan61 wrote:...Earth is not warming...


Again we have two mutually exclusive concepts here Duncan:

A- We do not know Earth's temperature.

B- We know it's not warming

You can't have both.

And did you get the CO2 meter yet?
Edited on 07-08-2020 13:34
07-08-2020 13:38
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
Consider this it is very clear to me
.At no point in time can we take a snapshot and say the global average is XYZ of the entire planet
.We can take readings and collect data at local stations to show a trend for that area and now I have discovered even here the bureau fudges the cold days to make the average appear warmer.Can you understand this simple concept or are you going to find fault.It is 2 seperate things
07-08-2020 13:51
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
Should get the meter on 12th
07-08-2020 15:47
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7465)
tmiddles wrote:Again we have two mutually exclusive concepts here Duncan:

We have two consistent and corroborating concepts:

tmiddles wrote: A- We do not know Earth's temperature [to any usable margin of error].
B- We know it's not warming [preceptibly]


Of course if the margin of error is vast while concurrently we cannot perceive any change, we can logically arrive from both sides to "Global Warming dogma is obviously bunk."

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-08-2020 19:15
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1214)
tmiddles wrote:
DRKTS wrote:... If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it ....
IBD's position is that not only can you not know the temperature of Earth you can't know the temperature of Denver. GFM cannot even know the temperature of his own home.
gfm7175 wrote:
I have no clue what the temperature of my house is.
IBdaMann wrote:
Into the Night wrote: No one can know the temperature of Denver.
He's absolutely correct....

Egregious violation of tmiddles ordinance.

Continued evasion of the questions asked of you.
07-08-2020 19:22
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1214)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:...Earth is not warming...


Again we have two mutually exclusive concepts here Duncan:

A- We do not know Earth's temperature.

B- We know it's not warming

You can't have both.

And did you get the CO2 meter yet?


Mantra 30 (bogus position assignment)... Duncan said "IF THE Earth is not warming"... you purposely left out those words in your quote to him.

Violation of tmiddles ordinance. Continued evasion of questions put forward to you.
08-08-2020 00:18
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13295)
tmiddles wrote:
DRKTS wrote:... If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it ....
IBD's position is that not only can you not know the temperature of Earth you can't know the temperature of Denver. GFM cannot even know the temperature of his own home.
gfm7175 wrote:
I have no clue what the temperature of my house is.
IBdaMann wrote:
Into the Night wrote: No one can know the temperature of Denver.
He's absolutely correct....

DRKTS I would find it very valuable if you were to create a topic on the statistics of determining a mean temperature using available data. This is outside my ability but I'd like to understand it better. I'd suggest including something simple, unrelated to weather, as a companion example using the same method.

Just a suggestion/request.


You still have no concept of margin of error. You still have no concept of statistical math.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
08-08-2020 00:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13295)
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:...Earth is not warming...


Again we have two mutually exclusive concepts here Duncan:

A- We do not know Earth's temperature.

B- We know it's not warming

You can't have both.

And did you get the CO2 meter yet?


The Earth's temperature is unknown.
It is not known if the Earth is warming, cooling, or just staying the same.

You are again taking things out of context, liar.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
08-08-2020 18:33
James___
★★★★★
(3172)
I didn't have to mow my yard because there was too little rain to let the grass grow. If I owned my residence, I'd probably use gravel like they do in the Phoenix area. And some plants prefer such climates as what the month of July provided where I live.
In this instance, the unambiguous definition of climate was above 26.7º with little or no rain. And yet some will say that a physical description of a long term (30 days is long enough to describe a month) does define that specific climatic period.
Of course those who say that "climate" cannot be defined are using communist tactics. Because they have a philosophical understanding that they adhere to, they should be the ruling party like a politburo.
08-08-2020 23:13
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1792)
James___ wrote:
Of course those who say that "climate" cannot be defined are using communist tactics.


YES! Like, TOTALLY agree!

You might even say the Norwegian Jet Stream is flirting with communism.


All the time the base and surface are at equal temperature as the equilibrium graduates to establish the temperature development--Pete Rogers
09-08-2020 01:32
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7465)
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
Of course those who say that "climate" cannot be defined are using communist tactics.


YES! Like, TOTALLY agree!

You might even say the Norwegian Jet Stream is flirting with communism.


You are racking up the awards like a mad man.

.
Attached image:

09-08-2020 03:00
James___
★★★★★
(3172)
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
Of course those who say that "climate" cannot be defined are using communist tactics.


YES! Like, TOTALLY agree!




I agree with YOU GasGuzzler.

YES! Like, TOTALLY agree!
09-08-2020 03:09
James___
★★★★★
(3172)
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
Of course those who say that "climate" cannot be defined are using communist tactics.


YES! Like, TOTALLY agree!

You might even say the Norwegian Jet Stream is flirting with communism.


You are racking up the awards like a mad man.

.



GiGi (GasGuzzler, GG, etc.) doesn't understand that you support communism.

Attached image:


Edited on 09-08-2020 03:12
09-08-2020 03:31
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
Do you agree with my explanation Tmiddles.When I get something wrong I have no problem admitting it on this forum.If BOM were not fudging the data they could easily prove it but we have a problem in they have been caught so there goes the record warming lies
09-08-2020 04:34
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7465)
James___ wrote: In this instance, the unambiguous definition of climate was above 26.7º with little or no rain.

It's good that you used the unambiguous nonexistent definition. You know how to adhere to the scientific consensus better than most.

James___ wrote: And yet some will say that a physical description of a long term (30 days is long enough to describe a month) does define that specific climatic period.

Good on you. You lead by example when it comes to climate science. You only use wholesome, organic climatic periods ... not any of those other periods with artificial preservatives and fillers that aren't truly climatic.

Well done.

James___ wrote: Of course those who say that "climate" cannot be defined are using communist tactics.

Tell me about it. I hate those naysayers. To them I say "Nay!"
Attached image:

09-08-2020 05:17
James___
★★★★★
(3172)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: In this instance, the unambiguous definition of climate was above 26.7º with little or no rain.

It's good that you used the unambiguous nonexistent definition. You know how to adhere to the scientific consensus better than most.

James___ wrote: And yet some will say that a physical description of a long term (30 days is long enough to describe a month) does define that specific climatic period.

Good on you. You lead by example when it comes to climate science. You only use wholesome, organic climatic periods ... not any of those other periods with artificial preservatives and fillers that aren't truly climatic.

Well done.

James___ wrote: Of course those who say that "climate" cannot be defined are using communist tactics.

Tell me about it. I hate those naysayers. To them I say "Nay!"



This is why Russia failed and China is dependent on exploiting it's people so it can export it's goods to Democratic societies.
09-08-2020 08:23
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(575)
[quote]DRKTS wrote:
Address the issue - temperatures rising all over the globe raised by my post. If you have alternative temperature data that is more reliable post it and show quantitatively how it is better than that of the all the World's meteorological agencies.

Posting the same repetitive nonsense over and over again does not make it any less nonsensical just more repetitive.[/quote

Fact.The auto weather station at the end of the runway at Amberley air force base has been there since 1941.I have been there a few times as my brother was with 12 Squadron CHINOOKS and I could fly on the milk run plane from Townsville and go hang out.It has shown a 1 deg C cooling over the time it has been there yet when they blend data from other places it now shows a 1.75 warming.Please explain how that works


duncan61
09-08-2020 17:30
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2403)
Temperature from land based monitoring stations, comes from where the most people live. Most people prefer a warmer climate, so the are more monitoring stations in those areas. We have a lot of people, and a lot of extreme weather in the tropics. There are a lot more weather monitoring stations. Hurricanes get started in the tropics, but travel all the way up into Canada sometimes. There is a lot of interest in what's happening in the tropics, so a lot more temperature data, than in the cooler regions. It's the ratio of monitor stations that bias the data, when throwing them all together, and taking an average. Suppose that in the cooler regions up north, or far south, have one ground based station, every 10 square miles. In the tropical regions, it's more like 20-30 stations, per 10 square miles. Not a lot of people living on the oceans either, so not a lot of monitoring stations at sea. 4/5th of the planet surface is covered with water... Satellite temperature measurements essentially are derived from camera images. Water vapor, dust clouds, volcanic ash, will screw those numbers up some. Don't remember how many miles away, those weather satellites are measuring from, but they aren't accurate, 100% of the time, but averaging those readings in, with the land based readings, smooth them out some...
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