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It's Getting Cooler In Some Places


It's Getting Cooler In Some Places25-09-2019 20:21
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
https://electroverse.net/moscow-shivers-through-its-coldest-summer-in-recorded-history-in-over-150-years-of-data/
26-09-2019 16:02
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote:https://electroverse.net/moscow-shivers-through-its-coldest-summer-in-recorded-history-in-over-150-years-of-data/

James__, what does this mean? Is the global climate cooling? How should I interpret this?

(it certainly is an interesting news item, thanks for posting)


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
26-09-2019 17:50
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:https://electroverse.net/moscow-shivers-through-its-coldest-summer-in-recorded-history-in-over-150-years-of-data/

James__, what does this mean? Is the global climate cooling? How should I interpret this?

(it certainly is an interesting news item, thanks for posting)


.



I'm not really sure. Temperatures over the US do not seem to be increasing while in the Middle East they are. A thought just occurred to me.
One thing that could always be considered is that the Earth's moment of inertia is starting to shift. It's moment of inertia is what determines how the Earth orbits the Sun and it's axial tilt which does vary.
With me, I've been mostly interested in how the next cooling cycle will happen or that became my primary interest.

edited to add: from the University of Georgia, from the time of Jesus it took 1,600 years to warm. The Little Ice Age happened quickly. Before the current 100,000 year cycle for ice ages, it was 40,000 year cycles because the planet was warmer.
It's possible that the current warming is a rebound effect caused by the Little Ice Age. Simply put, the Earth's spin and linear velocity were changed. The solar minimum and maximum seems to agree with this.

https://images.app.goo.gl/MpscnreWVw4E5QNq9
Edited on 26-09-2019 18:27
27-09-2019 08:06
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
James___ wrote:
https://electroverse.net/moscow-shivers-through-its-coldest-summer-in-recorded-history-in-over-150-years-of-data/
Wow nice find! I had no idea as I was just hearing about people in Paris not having AC and freaking out as it hit 40C. Pretty fishy it's not bigger news. Makes a nice pairing with the EU headlines: https://www.newsweek.com/summer-heat-wave-climate-change-killed-1500-france-1458205

Seems like they would be related. Like some kind of trade off. The EU heat wave was well beyond a bump from global warming just as that Moscow cold summer is.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
27-09-2019 09:27
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:
https://electroverse.net/moscow-shivers-through-its-coldest-summer-in-recorded-history-in-over-150-years-of-data/
Wow nice find! I had no idea as I was just hearing about people in Paris not having AC and freaking out as it hit 40C. Pretty fishy it's not bigger news. Makes a nice pairing with the EU headlines: https://www.newsweek.com/summer-heat-wave-climate-change-killed-1500-france-1458205

Seems like they would be related. Like some kind of trade off. The EU heat wave was well beyond a bump from global warming just as that Moscow cold summer is.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them



Thanks tmiddles.
There is one thing they might have in common. The Gulf Stream is known to be slowing. Would have to wonder what Scotland and Norway are doing. The Gulf Stream or what becomes the North Atlantic Current warms the Arctic winds as they blow from Saint Petersburg to Moscow. That's basically how the jet stream moves air in that region.
I think Paris is about as far north as NYC. NYC is about 0.3 degrees further north. The Gulf Stream is the difference.

edited to add: this is from a climate researcher in Norway. It seems that Norway has been trending downward since about 2015. Again, the Gulf Stream is what helps to determine the temperature in Norway.
https://folk.uib.no/ngfhd/Climate/climate-tnor00.html

I checked and Climate.gov shows cooling since about 2015. I bookmarked their graph. This link is to what the jet stream is doing. There's a recirculation gyre from the Gulf Stream that goes to the North Sea (Netherlands, Germany).
https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/jetstream
Edited on 27-09-2019 10:24
27-09-2019 15:11
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
tmiddles wrote:Seems like they would be related. Like some kind of trade off. The EU heat wave was well beyond a bump from global warming just as that Moscow cold summer is.

If only it were repeatable this would be an excellent example for you of the 2nd law of thermodynamics going down in flames.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
27-09-2019 16:53
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:Seems like they would be related. Like some kind of trade off. The EU heat wave was well beyond a bump from global warming just as that Moscow cold summer is.

If only it were repeatable this would be an excellent example for you of the 2nd law of thermodynamics going down in flames.


.



It depends on the wind patterns.
http://polarportal.dk/en/weather/nbsp/current-weather/

And wind patterns are influenced by the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation. It's also possible that this is caused by the slowing of the Gulf Stream. And this is very repeatable. It agrees with thermodynamics.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190415143955.htm
27-09-2019 17:10
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote:
It depends on the wind patterns.
http://polarportal.dk/en/weather/nbsp/current-weather/

And wind patterns are influenced by the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation. It's also possible that this is caused by the slowing of the Gulf Stream. And this is very repeatable. It agrees with thermodynamics.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190415143955.htm

James__, allow me to apologize, I was being facetious with tmiddles ... but I did not use a smiley/emoticon as would have been clearer. I may have given you the wrong impression.

Actually wind patterns and the Gulf Stream are not "repeatable" in the scientific method sense. Yes, various occurrences may very well "repeat" but for experiments the requirement is for the tester to be able to create and control the conditions. Mother nature is outside of that domain, as is anything that is random.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
27-09-2019 17:40
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:
It depends on the wind patterns.
http://polarportal.dk/en/weather/nbsp/current-weather/

And wind patterns are influenced by the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation. It's also possible that this is caused by the slowing of the Gulf Stream. And this is very repeatable. It agrees with thermodynamics.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190415143955.htm

James__, allow me to apologize, I was being facetious with tmiddles ... but I did not use a smiley/emoticon as would have been clearer. I may have given you the wrong impression.

Actually wind patterns and the Gulf Stream are not "repeatable" in the scientific method sense. Yes, various occurrences may very well "repeat" but for experiments the requirement is for the tester to be able to create and control the conditions. Mother nature is outside of that domain, as is anything that is random.



Sorry about that. While the Earth orbiting the Sun might not be repeatable, it's also not random. With the Gulf Stream, it's been slowing for many years while at the same time tectonic plate rebound is still happening. Norway is literally rising out of the ocean (north Atlantic/Norwegian Sea) and the North Sea.

edited to add: tmiddles, one reason why I'm somewhat familiar with Norway is because I used to live there.
Edited on 27-09-2019 17:45
27-09-2019 18:06
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote: While the Earth orbiting the Sun might not be repeatable, it's also not random.

Agreed. All the conditions are known and fixed. Repeatable experiments can be designed within these parameters.

James___ wrote: With the Gulf Stream, it's been slowing for many years while at the same time tectonic plate rebound is still happening.

With these elements there are problems, at least from a controlled, scientific method perspective.

The gulf stream operates at real time with substantial random fluctuations in every parameter, to include variances in direction.

Tectonic plate parameters have even greater random variance ... just at a much, ... much, ... ... much slower rate. The geologically slow rate of occurrence becomes a problem when considering the margin of error. All of the measurements are relative, based off of surveying of other landmarks, which are all changing/moving as well but in an unknown manner. The assumption is that they are all fixed/constant but we know they're not.

James___ wrote: Norway is literally rising out of the ocean (north Atlantic/Norwegian Sea) and the North Sea.

Is a mountain range forming under them?

James___ wrote: edited to add: tmiddles, one reason why I'm somewhat familiar with Norway is because I used to live there.

What is the best Norwegian food? i.e. if I were to show up in Norway, what food should I try first?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
27-09-2019 19:09
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: While the Earth orbiting the Sun might not be repeatable, it's also not random.

Agreed. All the conditions are known and fixed. Repeatable experiments can be designed within these parameters.

James___ wrote: With the Gulf Stream, it's been slowing for many years while at the same time tectonic plate rebound is still happening.

With these elements there are problems, at least from a controlled, scientific method perspective.

The gulf stream operates at real time with substantial random fluctuations in every parameter, to include variances in direction.

Tectonic plate parameters have even greater random variance ... just at a much, ... much, ... ... much slower rate. The geologically slow rate of occurrence becomes a problem when considering the margin of error. All of the measurements are relative, based off of surveying of other landmarks, which are all changing/moving as well but in an unknown manner. The assumption is that they are all fixed/constant but we know they're not.

James___ wrote: Norway is literally rising out of the ocean (north Atlantic/Norwegian Sea) and the North Sea.

Is a mountain range forming under them?



The elevation above sea level of their mountains is increasing. Even the North Star from a boat would show this. This would allow for tectonic plate rebound to be observed. All you need to do is look north and up. Then you could triangulate the peak of a mountain. Something similar was done in Ancient Egypt. And by doing so they knew that the Earth was round. They used the summer solstice to measure no shadow in one location when the Sun was directly over head and a shadow from the same experiment/observation further north which cast a shadow.
This is why I tend to focus how if the Earth's moment of inertia https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/torque-angular-momentum/torque-tutorial/a/rotational-inertia changes affects how it orbits the Sun which could account for the Milankovich Cycles https://www.universetoday.com/39012/milankovitch-cycle/
Basically if what I'm pursuing works out then I'll be able to explain the "why" behind his theory.
27-09-2019 22:49
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote: The elevation above sea level of their mountains is increasing.

I don't have any reason to disbelieve you. Just looking at this from a tester's viewpoint, I have to ask about the margin of error (as I mentioned earlier) because we don't know "sea level" exactly either (because it too is a "relative" measure based on relative reference to landmarks ... which are moving in relation to sea level ... which is measured relative to landmarks ... etc..

James___ wrote: Even the North Star from a boat would show this.

For the sake of discussion we can just assume that the elevation is rising.

James___ wrote: This would allow for tectonic plate rebound to be observed.

The difference here is that "increased elevation" is a measurement whereas "tectonic plate rebound" is a conclusion that can be disputed and that requires support.

James___ wrote: This is why I tend to focus how if the Earth's moment of inertia https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/torque-angular-momentum/torque-tutorial/a/rotational-inertia changes affects how it orbits the Sun which could account for the Milankovich Cycles https://www.universetoday.com/39012/milankovitch-cycle/
Basically if what I'm pursuing works out then I'll be able to explain the "why" behind his theory.


I take it you plan to show conservation of momentum as the principle for the change in earth's rotation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJblcgZUlmY

I don't, however, see how you plan to show any sort of acceleration/deceleration in the earth's orbit around the sun.



.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-09-2019 03:49
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: The elevation above sea level of their mountains is increasing.

I don't have any reason to disbelieve you. Just looking at this from a tester's viewpoint, I have to ask about the margin of error (as I mentioned earlier) because we don't know "sea level" exactly either (because it too is a "relative" measure based on relative reference to landmarks ... which are moving in relation to sea level ... which is measured relative to landmarks ... etc..

James___ wrote: Even the North Star from a boat would show this.

For the sake of discussion we can just assume that the elevation is rising.

James___ wrote: This would allow for tectonic plate rebound to be observed.

The difference here is that "increased elevation" is a measurement whereas "tectonic plate rebound" is a conclusion that can be disputed and that requires support.

James___ wrote: This is why I tend to focus how if the Earth's moment of inertia https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/torque-angular-momentum/torque-tutorial/a/rotational-inertia changes affects how it orbits the Sun which could account for the Milankovich Cycles https://www.universetoday.com/39012/milankovitch-cycle/
Basically if what I'm pursuing works out then I'll be able to explain the "why" behind his theory.


I take it you plan to show conservation of momentum as the principle for the change in earth's rotation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJblcgZUlmY

I don't, however, see how you plan to show any sort of acceleration/deceleration in the earth's orbit around the sun.



.



You don't seem to have a good grasp of how energy can be conserved.
Also knowing sea level is easy. Do you know where the Moon is? If so you can know how it influences the tide. If you'd ever been at sea then you would know that stars can be used as "landmarks".
It seems though that you really have no interest in science. And since I do, it doesn't allow for a very good conservation experience for me.
28-09-2019 05:31
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Tide isn't the same thing as ocean level. Most of the oceans are in constant motion, some pretty big waves and swells. With all the dire warnings about rising ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them. Basically, all I'm getting, is that ice melts, and all that water goes in to the oceans, which should rise by an equal amount. It's only possible to make a rough estimate of the volume of the ice, and that doesn't take into trapped air, voids, or non-water items trapped in the ice..
28-09-2019 05:43
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
HarveyH55 wrote:...ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them..
So I got curious. "A tide gauge is a large (1 foot [30 cm] or more in diameter), long pipe with a small hole below the water line. This pipe is often called a stilling well. Even though waves are changing the water level outside the gauge constantly, they have little effect inside the gauge. The sea level can be read relatively accurately inside this pipe. If read on a regular basis over a time span of years and then averaged, you can get a measurement of sea level."


So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float. THE POWER OF SCIENCE


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
28-09-2019 16:13
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them..
So I got curious. "A tide gauge is a large (1 foot [30 cm] or more in diameter), long pipe with a small hole below the water line. This pipe is often called a stilling well. Even though waves are changing the water level outside the gauge constantly, they have little effect inside the gauge. The sea level can be read relatively accurately inside this pipe. If read on a regular basis over a time span of years and then averaged, you can get a measurement of sea level."


So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float. THE POWER OF SCIENCE


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them


Tide isn't the same thing as ocean level. By your logic, the ocean levels would also be falling. Those maximum high tide isn't the same everyday. It's just like the CO2 readings, they don't just keep climbing higher everyday. They rise, they fall, life continues to move on...
28-09-2019 19:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: The elevation above sea level of their mountains is increasing.

I don't have any reason to disbelieve you. Just looking at this from a tester's viewpoint, I have to ask about the margin of error (as I mentioned earlier) because we don't know "sea level" exactly either (because it too is a "relative" measure based on relative reference to landmarks ... which are moving in relation to sea level ... which is measured relative to landmarks ... etc..

James___ wrote: Even the North Star from a boat would show this.

For the sake of discussion we can just assume that the elevation is rising.

James___ wrote: This would allow for tectonic plate rebound to be observed.

The difference here is that "increased elevation" is a measurement whereas "tectonic plate rebound" is a conclusion that can be disputed and that requires support.

James___ wrote: This is why I tend to focus how if the Earth's moment of inertia https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/torque-angular-momentum/torque-tutorial/a/rotational-inertia changes affects how it orbits the Sun which could account for the Milankovich Cycles https://www.universetoday.com/39012/milankovitch-cycle/
Basically if what I'm pursuing works out then I'll be able to explain the "why" behind his theory.


I take it you plan to show conservation of momentum as the principle for the change in earth's rotation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJblcgZUlmY

I don't, however, see how you plan to show any sort of acceleration/deceleration in the earth's orbit around the sun.



.



You don't seem to have a good grasp of how energy can be conserved.
Also knowing sea level is easy. Do you know where the Moon is? If so you can know how it influences the tide. If you'd ever been at sea then you would know that stars can be used as "landmarks".
It seems though that you really have no interest in science. And since I do, it doesn't allow for a very good conservation experience for me.


Stars tell you what latitude you have, but that's it. They do not tell you what longitude you are at, or how high the sea level is where you are at.


The Parrot Killer
28-09-2019 19:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them..
So I got curious. "A tide gauge is a large (1 foot [30 cm] or more in diameter), long pipe with a small hole below the water line. This pipe is often called a stilling well. Even though waves are changing the water level outside the gauge constantly, they have little effect inside the gauge. The sea level can be read relatively accurately inside this pipe. If read on a regular basis over a time span of years and then averaged, you can get a measurement of sea level."


So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float. THE POWER OF SCIENCE

Science isn't a pipe.

Unfortunately, the land the tidal station is sitting on is moving.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 28-09-2019 19:44
28-09-2019 20:24
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them..
So I got curious. "A tide gauge is a large (1 foot [30 cm] or more in diameter), long pipe with a small hole below the water line. This pipe is often called a stilling well. Even though waves are changing the water level outside the gauge constantly, they have little effect inside the gauge. The sea level can be read relatively accurately inside this pipe. If read on a regular basis over a time span of years and then averaged, you can get a measurement of sea level."


So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float. THE POWER OF SCIENCE


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them


Tide isn't the same thing as ocean level. By your logic, the ocean levels would also be falling. Those maximum high tide isn't the same everyday. It's just like the CO2 readings, they don't just keep climbing higher everyday. They rise, they fall, life continues to move on...



That's why I mentioned knowing the Moon's position because that is what influences the tide.
https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/tides.html

With tectonic plate rebound, it could be considered as the increased elevation of a mountain's peak above sea level. With satellites it could be it's triangulated position relative to the orbits of 3 satellites.
Before satellites, using the North Star would've been acceptable. Maybe not for someone who's never lived outside of the US but in Scandinavian countries this would be a simple way to measure tectonic plate rebound. And since I did mention the Gulf Stream, if the depth of a body of water is decreasing, then this could restrict the flow of water from the equator going into the Arctic.
28-09-2019 20:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them..
So I got curious. "A tide gauge is a large (1 foot [30 cm] or more in diameter), long pipe with a small hole below the water line. This pipe is often called a stilling well. Even though waves are changing the water level outside the gauge constantly, they have little effect inside the gauge. The sea level can be read relatively accurately inside this pipe. If read on a regular basis over a time span of years and then averaged, you can get a measurement of sea level."


So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float. THE POWER OF SCIENCE


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them


Tide isn't the same thing as ocean level. By your logic, the ocean levels would also be falling. Those maximum high tide isn't the same everyday. It's just like the CO2 readings, they don't just keep climbing higher everyday. They rise, they fall, life continues to move on...



That's why I mentioned knowing the Moon's position because that is what influences the tide.
https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/tides.html

With tectonic plate rebound, it could be considered as the increased elevation of a mountain's peak above sea level. With satellites it could be it's triangulated position relative to the orbits of 3 satellites.
Before satellites, using the North Star would've been acceptable. Maybe not for someone who's never lived outside of the US but in Scandinavian countries this would be a simple way to measure tectonic plate rebound. And since I did mention the Gulf Stream, if the depth of a body of water is decreasing, then this could restrict the flow of water from the equator going into the Arctic.


Warm currents don't restrict the flow of water. GPS altitude information is only accurate to within +-100 ft, and THAT is based on a ground reference beacon located in Boulder, CO, on land, which moves.


The Parrot Killer
28-09-2019 21:23
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
@tmiddles, kind of have to think that some people have little interest in science.
Kind of like Trump marrying foreign nationals 2 out of 3 times. At the same time he doesn't like paying taxes while he likes strippers.
He also likes young pretty girls like Epstein. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-falling-out
And he's making America great again?
US politics is similar to the climate change debate. Science is being ignored because it's more about being "great".
The basis of w/mk is what should be considered in how heat passes through our atmosphere. Instead it's something else other than an accepted principle of conduction.
This basically means that any claim that climate scientists can make about how any frequency of solar radiation passes through our atmosphere can be verified by the accepted methodology behind w/mk.
This is where having young children shaming world leaders is wrong. If we care about children then getting it right should matter.
And for the kids who are used, if it's found out that they were being used, it could create problems for them in their own lives.
Edited on 28-09-2019 21:28
28-09-2019 22:44
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote: @tmiddles, kind of have to think that some people have little interest in science.

Many people have little interest in science.

James___ wrote: Kind of like Trump marrying foreign nationals 2 out of 3 times.

Can you blame him? American women have definite attitude problems. There are so many awesome and available women outside the United States. Yes, you make a strong case for Trump being a very smart man, but then again, the wealth that he has built speaks for itself.

James___ wrote: At the same time he doesn't like paying taxes while he likes strippers.

So he's a solid American.

Oh, that's right! The USA was founded on not liking to pay taxes! I see your point. Hey, I don't like paying taxes either. I didn't give you enough credit.


James___ wrote: And he's making America great again?

You bet, baby. Have you seen those unemployment rates? Did you check out that tax reform? Did you see that United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement?
The list goes on!

Make America great baby, make America great! Keep it coming!

James___ wrote: US politics is similar to the climate change debate. Science is being ignored because it's more about being "great".

I see you've been monitoring tmiddles' posts. Science isn't being ignored ... it's being flat out denied. The Climate religion has declared science the enemy.

Fortunately, Trump isn't permitting the Climate faith or any Marxism to derail America's return to greatness. Instead of wasting $500 million on trashing our environment and raining misery down upon Americans in the name of the Global Warming faith, for example, Trump is asking Congress to spend that money on pediatric cancer research. We should have elected him by write-in vote decades ago.

Make America great baby, make America great! Keep it coming!

James___ wrote: This basically means that any claim that climate scientists can make about how any frequency of solar radiation passes through our atmosphere can be verified by the accepted methodology behind w/mk.

Can't one just use a sensor to gauge the power of solar radiation at a given wavelength reaching the earth's surface, note the ground elevation, and compare the power of that wavelength received by a satellite? Wouldn't that work?

James___ wrote: This is where having young children shaming world leaders is wrong.

Isn't child exploitation just wrong in every case?

James___ wrote: If we care about children then getting it right should matter.

Shouldn't we get right everything about which we care?

James___ wrote: And for the kids who are used, if it's found out that they were being used, it could create problems for them in their own lives.

Bingo! When the day comes that she realizes that there is no such thing as Global Warming or Climate Change, she will harbor a lot of resentment.

Ask me how I know.

She will also have to face a world in which everyone looks upon her like they look upon a prostitute, i.e. a used piece of meat for rent, and she will be aware of it every waking moment of every day.

Yes, porn stars can have acceptance as long as they confine their public presence to adult conventions.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-09-2019 23:01
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: @tmiddles, kind of have to think that some people have little interest in science.

Many people have little interest in science.

James___ wrote: Kind of like Trump marrying foreign nationals 2 out of 3 times.

Can you blame him? American women have definite attitude problems. There are so many awesome and available women outside the United States. Yes, you make a strong case for Trump being a very smart man, but then again, the wealth that he has built speaks for itself.

James___ wrote: At the same time he doesn't like paying taxes while he likes strippers.

So he's a solid American.

Oh, that's right! The USA was founded on not liking to pay taxes! I see your point. Hey, I don't like paying taxes either. I didn't give you enough credit.


James___ wrote: And he's making America great again?

You bet, baby. Have you seen those unemployment rates? Did you check out that tax reform? Did you see that United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement?
The list goes on!

Make America great baby, make America great! Keep it coming!

James___ wrote: US politics is similar to the climate change debate. Science is being ignored because it's more about being "great".

I see you've been monitoring tmiddles' posts. Science isn't being ignored ... it's being flat out denied. The Climate religion has declared science the enemy.

Fortunately, Trump isn't permitting the Climate faith or any Marxism to derail America's return to greatness. Instead of wasting $500 million on trashing our environment and raining misery down upon Americans in the name of the Global Warming faith, for example, Trump is asking Congress to spend that money on pediatric cancer research. We should have elected him by write-in vote decades ago.

Make America great baby, make America great! Keep it coming!

James___ wrote: This basically means that any claim that climate scientists can make about how any frequency of solar radiation passes through our atmosphere can be verified by the accepted methodology behind w/mk.

Can't one just use a sensor to gauge the power of solar radiation at a given wavelength reaching the earth's surface, note the ground elevation, and compare the power of that wavelength received by a satellite? Wouldn't that work?

James___ wrote: This is where having young children shaming world leaders is wrong.

Isn't child exploitation just wrong in every case?

James___ wrote: If we care about children then getting it right should matter.

Shouldn't we get right everything about which we care?

James___ wrote: And for the kids who are used, if it's found out that they were being used, it could create problems for them in their own lives.

Bingo! When the day comes that she realizes that there is no such thing as Global Warming or Climate Change, she will harbor a lot of resentment.

Ask me how I know.

She will also have to face a world in which everyone looks upon her like they look upon a prostitute, i.e. a used piece of meat for rent, and she will be aware of it every waking moment of every day.

Yes, porn stars can have acceptance as long as they confine their public presence to adult conventions.

.



That's why I like you Damann. You know that my mother was smart for marrying a foreign national instead of an American like you. Actually that's about what any Trump supporter is saying, Americans simply have nothing going on. If their daddy doesn't give them money then like Trump, they have nothing.
28-09-2019 23:09
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote: That's why I like you Damann. You know that my mother was smart for marrying a foreign national instead of an American like you.

I gave up after dating many American girls. I found a foreign girl who was everything I wanted.

James___ wrote: If their daddy doesn't give them money then like Trump, they have nothing.

But that sentiment is baseless and verifiably untrue.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-09-2019 02:19
Harry C
☆☆☆☆☆
(32)
tmiddles wrote:
Seems like they would be related. Like some kind of trade off. The EU heat wave was well beyond a bump from global warming just as that Moscow cold summer is.


That story from Newsweek is bunk. They took a tragedy and compounded it with AGW/CC. Here is all the article said:
A study conducted by a team of European scientists linked the intense heat wave directly to man-made climate change.


The source is Robert Vautard of the Institut Pierre-Simon Laplace. There is no other embellishment.

Very little searching reveals this.
The Institut Pierre Simon Laplace (Pierre Simon Laplace Institute) is an organisation made up of 9 laboratories (CEREA, GEOPS, LATMOS, a team from LERMA, LISA, LMD, LOCEAN, LPMAA, LSCE and METIS) that conducts research into climate science.


How objective do you think their research is?


You learn something new every day if you are lucky!
30-09-2019 03:22
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
HarveyH55 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float.

Tide isn't the same thing as ocean level.
Doesn't the ocean level everywhere change with the tide? Like it rises up out at sea too? What they describe isn't an instantaneous measurement but a continuous one so they can construct an average. Another pic:

Same as with temperature with daily fluctuations and seasons. Maybe a winter day in Pheonix is colder than the same summer day in Santiago, Chile but you can take the totality of the year and compare a reasonable average to know which city is warmer and by how many degrees on average.

We can figure things out! It's not all pointless and useless I swear.

James___ wrote:
@tmiddles, kind of have to think that some people have little interest in science....Science is being ignored
Worse it's a war on science and anything being "known". It's very Orwellian and in the play book of the left, right and any group working for authoritarian rule. If everything is corrupt and fake news then any moron can fill in the blanks and call it truth.
Basically not having to bother with facts gives you a big blank check.

Harry C wrote:
That story from Newsweek is bunk. They took a tragedy and compounded it with AGW/CC. Here is all the article said:
A study conducted by a team of European scientists linked the intense heat wave directly to man-made climate change.
I would agree that's bunk. Let those who overstep expose themselves as being overreaching! We can remember for next time.

It doesn't add up because the climate change theory says there has be 1 degree, so a heat wave is not the fault of 1 degree, ever. We simply aren't there yet according to the theorists themselves. Also there is the massive spat of heat waves we had in the US in the 1930s that is as yet unmatched. So yeah BS indeed.



"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them[/quote]
30-09-2019 03:31
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float.

Tide isn't the same thing as ocean level.
Doesn't the ocean level everywhere change with the tide? Like it rises up out at sea too? What they describe isn't an instantaneous measurement but a continuous one so they can construct an average. Another pic:

Same as with temperature with daily fluctuations and seasons. Maybe a winter day in Pheonix is colder than the same summer day in Santiago, Chile but you can take the totality of the year and compare a reasonable average to know which city is warmer and by how many degrees on average.

We can figure things out! It's not all pointless and useless I swear.

James___ wrote:
@tmiddles, kind of have to think that some people have little interest in science....Science is being ignored
Worse it's a war on science and anything being "known". It's very Orwellian and in the play book of the left, right and any group working for authoritarian rule. If everything is corrupt and fake news then any moron can fill in the blanks and call it truth.
Basically not having to bother with facts gives you a big blank check.

Harry C wrote:
That story from Newsweek is bunk. They took a tragedy and compounded it with AGW/CC. Here is all the article said:
A study conducted by a team of European scientists linked the intense heat wave directly to man-made climate change.
I would agree that's bunk. Let those who overstep expose themselves as being overreaching! We can remember for next time.

It doesn't add up because the climate change theory says there has be 1 degree, so a heat wave is not the fault of 1 degree, ever. We simply aren't there yet according to the theorists themselves. Also there is the massive spat of heat waves we had in the US in the 1930s that is as yet unmatched. So yeah BS indeed.



"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
[/quote]


From what I read out of Norway, the years (summers of) 2015, 2016 & 2017 were cool and rainy and then drought in 2018. Even with natural climate change it might take a decade or more to notice it.
With the 30's, the warming from 1910 - 1940 puts the Dust Bowl (caused by over farming the land), those heat waves were at the end of a period of rapid natural warming.
With the areas in the Dust Bowl, little vegetation or moisture in the soil. Changes how solar radiation refracts or is just absorbed.
With Norway, what were the summers like in France and Germany during those years? Where was the jet stream? How warm were the waters flowing north of where the meridional ocean circulation is taking place?
Those things need to be known to have a subjective response. Just sayin'.
edited to add: am spending time learning the math. Wouldn't mind doing a computer model of what I've been working at. If that happens it's still a few years away. It will be a lot of work but should be able to enjoy doing it

Edited on 30-09-2019 03:50




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