It's Getting Cooler In Some Places

James___ wrote:https://electroverse.net/moscow-shivers-through-its-coldest-summer-in-recorded-history-in-over-150-years-of-data/

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote:https://electroverse.net/moscow-shivers-through-its-coldest-summer-in-recorded-history-in-over-150-years-of-data/

James__, what does this mean? Is the global climate cooling? How should I interpret this?

(it certainly is an interesting news item, thanks for posting)


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James___ wrote:
https://electroverse.net/moscow-shivers-through-its-coldest-summer-in-recorded-history-in-over-150-years-of-data/

tmiddles wrote:

James___ wrote:
https://electroverse.net/moscow-shivers-through-its-coldest-summer-in-recorded-history-in-over-150-years-of-data/

Wow nice find! I had no idea as I was just hearing about people in Paris not having AC and freaking out as it hit 40C. Pretty fishy it's not bigger news. Makes a nice pairing with the EU headlines: https://www.newsweek.com/summer-heat-wave-climate-change-killed-1500-france-1458205

Seems like they would be related. Like some kind of trade off. The EU heat wave was well beyond a bump from global warming just as that Moscow cold summer is.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them

tmiddles wrote:Seems like they would be related. Like some kind of trade off. The EU heat wave was well beyond a bump from global warming just as that Moscow cold summer is.

IBdaMann wrote:

tmiddles wrote:Seems like they would be related. Like some kind of trade off. The EU heat wave was well beyond a bump from global warming just as that Moscow cold summer is.

If only it were repeatable this would be an excellent example for you of the 2nd law of thermodynamics going down in flames.


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James___ wrote:
It depends on the wind patterns.
http://polarportal.dk/en/weather/nbsp/current-weather/

And wind patterns are influenced by the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation. It's also possible that this is caused by the slowing of the Gulf Stream. And this is very repeatable. It agrees with thermodynamics.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190415143955.htm

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote:
It depends on the wind patterns.
http://polarportal.dk/en/weather/nbsp/current-weather/

And wind patterns are influenced by the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation. It's also possible that this is caused by the slowing of the Gulf Stream. And this is very repeatable. It agrees with thermodynamics.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190415143955.htm

James__, allow me to apologize, I was being facetious with tmiddles ... but I did not use a smiley/emoticon as would have been clearer. I may have given you the wrong impression.

Actually wind patterns and the Gulf Stream are not "repeatable" in the scientific method sense. Yes, various occurrences may very well "repeat" but for experiments the requirement is for the tester to be able to create and control the conditions. Mother nature is outside of that domain, as is anything that is random.

James___ wrote: While the Earth orbiting the Sun might not be repeatable, it's also not random.

James___ wrote: With the Gulf Stream, it's been slowing for many years while at the same time tectonic plate rebound is still happening.

James___ wrote: Norway is literally rising out of the ocean (north Atlantic/Norwegian Sea) and the North Sea.

James___ wrote: edited to add: tmiddles, one reason why I'm somewhat familiar with Norway is because I used to live there.

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: While the Earth orbiting the Sun might not be repeatable, it's also not random.

Agreed. All the conditions are known and fixed. Repeatable experiments can be designed within these parameters.

James___ wrote: With the Gulf Stream, it's been slowing for many years while at the same time tectonic plate rebound is still happening.

With these elements there are problems, at least from a controlled, scientific method perspective.

The gulf stream operates at real time with substantial random fluctuations in every parameter, to include variances in direction.

Tectonic plate parameters have even greater random variance ... just at a much, ... much, ... ... much slower rate. The geologically slow rate of occurrence becomes a problem when considering the margin of error. All of the measurements are relative, based off of surveying of other landmarks, which are all changing/moving as well but in an unknown manner. The assumption is that they are all fixed/constant but we know they're not.

James___ wrote: Norway is literally rising out of the ocean (north Atlantic/Norwegian Sea) and the North Sea.

Is a mountain range forming under them?

James___ wrote: The elevation above sea level of their mountains is increasing.

James___ wrote: Even the North Star from a boat would show this.

James___ wrote: This would allow for tectonic plate rebound to be observed.

James___ wrote: This is why I tend to focus how if the Earth's moment of inertia https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/torque-angular-momentum/torque-tutorial/a/rotational-inertia changes affects how it orbits the Sun which could account for the Milankovich Cycles https://www.universetoday.com/39012/milankovitch-cycle/
Basically if what I'm pursuing works out then I'll be able to explain the "why" behind his theory.

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: The elevation above sea level of their mountains is increasing.

I don't have any reason to disbelieve you. Just looking at this from a tester's viewpoint, I have to ask about the margin of error (as I mentioned earlier) because we don't know "sea level" exactly either (because it too is a "relative" measure based on relative reference to landmarks ... which are moving in relation to sea level ... which is measured relative to landmarks ... etc..

James___ wrote: Even the North Star from a boat would show this.

For the sake of discussion we can just assume that the elevation is rising.

James___ wrote: This would allow for tectonic plate rebound to be observed.

The difference here is that "increased elevation" is a measurement whereas "tectonic plate rebound" is a conclusion that can be disputed and that requires support.

James___ wrote: This is why I tend to focus how if the Earth's moment of inertia https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/torque-angular-momentum/torque-tutorial/a/rotational-inertia changes affects how it orbits the Sun which could account for the Milankovich Cycles https://www.universetoday.com/39012/milankovitch-cycle/
Basically if what I'm pursuing works out then I'll be able to explain the "why" behind his theory.

I take it you plan to show conservation of momentum as the principle for the change in earth's rotation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJblcgZUlmY

I don't, however, see how you plan to show any sort of acceleration/deceleration in the earth's orbit around the sun.



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HarveyH55 wrote:...ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them..

tmiddles wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:...ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them..

So I got curious. "A tide gauge is a large (1 foot [30 cm] or more in diameter), long pipe with a small hole below the water line. This pipe is often called a stilling well. Even though waves are changing the water level outside the gauge constantly, they have little effect inside the gauge. The sea level can be read relatively accurately inside this pipe. If read on a regular basis over a time span of years and then averaged, you can get a measurement of sea level."


So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float. THE POWER OF SCIENCE


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them

James___ wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: The elevation above sea level of their mountains is increasing.

I don't have any reason to disbelieve you. Just looking at this from a tester's viewpoint, I have to ask about the margin of error (as I mentioned earlier) because we don't know "sea level" exactly either (because it too is a "relative" measure based on relative reference to landmarks ... which are moving in relation to sea level ... which is measured relative to landmarks ... etc..

James___ wrote: Even the North Star from a boat would show this.

For the sake of discussion we can just assume that the elevation is rising.

James___ wrote: This would allow for tectonic plate rebound to be observed.

The difference here is that "increased elevation" is a measurement whereas "tectonic plate rebound" is a conclusion that can be disputed and that requires support.

James___ wrote: This is why I tend to focus how if the Earth's moment of inertia https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/torque-angular-momentum/torque-tutorial/a/rotational-inertia changes affects how it orbits the Sun which could account for the Milankovich Cycles https://www.universetoday.com/39012/milankovitch-cycle/
Basically if what I'm pursuing works out then I'll be able to explain the "why" behind his theory.

I take it you plan to show conservation of momentum as the principle for the change in earth's rotation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJblcgZUlmY

I don't, however, see how you plan to show any sort of acceleration/deceleration in the earth's orbit around the sun.



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You don't seem to have a good grasp of how energy can be conserved.
Also knowing sea level is easy. Do you know where the Moon is? If so you can know how it influences the tide. If you'd ever been at sea then you would know that stars can be used as "landmarks".
It seems though that you really have no interest in science. And since I do, it doesn't allow for a very good conservation experience for me.

tmiddles wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:...ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them..

So I got curious. "A tide gauge is a large (1 foot [30 cm] or more in diameter), long pipe with a small hole below the water line. This pipe is often called a stilling well. Even though waves are changing the water level outside the gauge constantly, they have little effect inside the gauge. The sea level can be read relatively accurately inside this pipe. If read on a regular basis over a time span of years and then averaged, you can get a measurement of sea level."


So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float. THE POWER OF SCIENCE

HarveyH55 wrote:

tmiddles wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:...ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them..

So I got curious. "A tide gauge is a large (1 foot [30 cm] or more in diameter), long pipe with a small hole below the water line. This pipe is often called a stilling well. Even though waves are changing the water level outside the gauge constantly, they have little effect inside the gauge. The sea level can be read relatively accurately inside this pipe. If read on a regular basis over a time span of years and then averaged, you can get a measurement of sea level."


So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float. THE POWER OF SCIENCE


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them

Tide isn't the same thing as ocean level. By your logic, the ocean levels would also be falling. Those maximum high tide isn't the same everyday. It's just like the CO2 readings, they don't just keep climbing higher everyday. They rise, they fall, life continues to move on...

James___ wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:

tmiddles wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:...ocean levels, I've never seen anything about methods for actually measuring them..

So I got curious. "A tide gauge is a large (1 foot [30 cm] or more in diameter), long pipe with a small hole below the water line. This pipe is often called a stilling well. Even though waves are changing the water level outside the gauge constantly, they have little effect inside the gauge. The sea level can be read relatively accurately inside this pipe. If read on a regular basis over a time span of years and then averaged, you can get a measurement of sea level."


So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float. THE POWER OF SCIENCE


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them

Tide isn't the same thing as ocean level. By your logic, the ocean levels would also be falling. Those maximum high tide isn't the same everyday. It's just like the CO2 readings, they don't just keep climbing higher everyday. They rise, they fall, life continues to move on...

That's why I mentioned knowing the Moon's position because that is what influences the tide.
https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/tides.html

With tectonic plate rebound, it could be considered as the increased elevation of a mountain's peak above sea level. With satellites it could be it's triangulated position relative to the orbits of 3 satellites.
Before satellites, using the North Star would've been acceptable. Maybe not for someone who's never lived outside of the US but in Scandinavian countries this would be a simple way to measure tectonic plate rebound. And since I did mention the Gulf Stream, if the depth of a body of water is decreasing, then this could restrict the flow of water from the equator going into the Arctic.

James___ wrote: @tmiddles, kind of have to think that some people have little interest in science.

James___ wrote: Kind of like Trump marrying foreign nationals 2 out of 3 times.

James___ wrote: At the same time he doesn't like paying taxes while he likes strippers.

James___ wrote: And he's making America great again?

James___ wrote: US politics is similar to the climate change debate. Science is being ignored because it's more about being "great".

James___ wrote: This basically means that any claim that climate scientists can make about how any frequency of solar radiation passes through our atmosphere can be verified by the accepted methodology behind w/mk.

James___ wrote: This is where having young children shaming world leaders is wrong.

James___ wrote: If we care about children then getting it right should matter.

James___ wrote: And for the kids who are used, if it's found out that they were being used, it could create problems for them in their own lives.

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: @tmiddles, kind of have to think that some people have little interest in science.

Many people have little interest in science.

James___ wrote: Kind of like Trump marrying foreign nationals 2 out of 3 times.

Can you blame him? American women have definite attitude problems. There are so many awesome and available women outside the United States. Yes, you make a strong case for Trump being a very smart man, but then again, the wealth that he has built speaks for itself.

James___ wrote: At the same time he doesn't like paying taxes while he likes strippers.

So he's a solid American.

Oh, that's right! The USA was founded on not liking to pay taxes! I see your point. Hey, I don't like paying taxes either. I didn't give you enough credit.

James___ wrote: And he's making America great again?

You bet, baby. Have you seen those unemployment rates? Did you check out that tax reform? Did you see that United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement?
The list goes on!

Make America great baby, make America great! Keep it coming!

James___ wrote: US politics is similar to the climate change debate. Science is being ignored because it's more about being "great".

I see you've been monitoring tmiddles' posts. Science isn't being ignored ... it's being flat out denied. The Climate religion has declared science the enemy.

Fortunately, Trump isn't permitting the Climate faith or any Marxism to derail America's return to greatness. Instead of wasting $500 million on trashing our environment and raining misery down upon Americans in the name of the Global Warming faith, for example, Trump is asking Congress to spend that money on pediatric cancer research. We should have elected him by write-in vote decades ago.

Make America great baby, make America great! Keep it coming!

James___ wrote: This basically means that any claim that climate scientists can make about how any frequency of solar radiation passes through our atmosphere can be verified by the accepted methodology behind w/mk.

Can't one just use a sensor to gauge the power of solar radiation at a given wavelength reaching the earth's surface, note the ground elevation, and compare the power of that wavelength received by a satellite? Wouldn't that work?

James___ wrote: This is where having young children shaming world leaders is wrong.

Isn't child exploitation just wrong in every case?

James___ wrote: If we care about children then getting it right should matter.

Shouldn't we get right everything about which we care?

James___ wrote: And for the kids who are used, if it's found out that they were being used, it could create problems for them in their own lives.

Bingo! When the day comes that she realizes that there is no such thing as Global Warming or Climate Change, she will harbor a lot of resentment.

Ask me how I know.

She will also have to face a world in which everyone looks upon her like they look upon a prostitute, i.e. a used piece of meat for rent, and she will be aware of it every waking moment of every day.

Yes, porn stars can have acceptance as long as they confine their public presence to adult conventions.

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James___ wrote: That's why I like you Damann. You know that my mother was smart for marrying a foreign national instead of an American like you.

James___ wrote: If their daddy doesn't give them money then like Trump, they have nothing.

tmiddles wrote:
Seems like they would be related. Like some kind of trade off. The EU heat wave was well beyond a bump from global warming just as that Moscow cold summer is.

A study conducted by a team of European scientists linked the intense heat wave directly to man-made climate change.

The Institut Pierre Simon Laplace (Pierre Simon Laplace Institute) is an organisation made up of 9 laboratories (CEREA, GEOPS, LATMOS, a team from LERMA, LISA, LMD, LOCEAN, LPMAA, LSCE and METIS) that conducts research into climate science.

HarveyH55 wrote:

tmiddles wrote:
So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float.

Tide isn't the same thing as ocean level.

James___ wrote:
@tmiddles, kind of have to think that some people have little interest in science....Science is being ignored

Harry C wrote:
That story from Newsweek is bunk. They took a tragedy and compounded it with AGW/CC. Here is all the article said:

A study conducted by a team of European scientists linked the intense heat wave directly to man-made climate change.

tmiddles wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:

tmiddles wrote:
So there is simply a pipe to prevent the waves from changing the level of the float.

Tide isn't the same thing as ocean level.

Doesn't the ocean level everywhere change with the tide? Like it rises up out at sea too? What they describe isn't an instantaneous measurement but a continuous one so they can construct an average. Another pic:

Same as with temperature with daily fluctuations and seasons. Maybe a winter day in Pheonix is colder than the same summer day in Santiago, Chile but you can take the totality of the year and compare a reasonable average to know which city is warmer and by how many degrees on average.

We can figure things out! It's not all pointless and useless I swear.

James___ wrote:
@tmiddles, kind of have to think that some people have little interest in science....Science is being ignored

Worse it's a war on science and anything being "known". It's very Orwellian and in the play book of the left, right and any group working for authoritarian rule. If everything is corrupt and fake news then any moron can fill in the blanks and call it truth.
Basically not having to bother with facts gives you a big blank check.

Harry C wrote:
That story from Newsweek is bunk. They took a tragedy and compounded it with AGW/CC. Here is all the article said:

A study conducted by a team of European scientists linked the intense heat wave directly to man-made climate change.

I would agree that's bunk. Let those who overstep expose themselves as being overreaching! We can remember for next time.

It doesn't add up because the climate change theory says there has be 1 degree, so a heat wave is not the fault of 1 degree, ever. We simply aren't there yet according to the theorists themselves. Also there is the massive spat of heat waves we had in the US in the 1930s that is as yet unmatched. So yeah BS indeed.



"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them