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Is it really is doing it



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05-01-2020 01:50
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
Bigal wrote:
My main concern is that making children believe that the world will end ...Greta thunberg who at the age of 12 ... what she is told the speaches where written for her.

Greta is 17 now but your point is no less valid.

I agree it's a tidal wave of BS as with most flavors of the month (heresy, communism, terrorism, and every fashionable emergency in it's time)

But what is a better way to fight back?
1- try to frustrate the BSers by denying them any cooperation? A head in the sand stubborn denial to grant them one inch of ground? To look like fools in the process as basic facts are denied? I believe this approach helps BS the most.
2- beat the wrong theory with the right one. Get the science right by working with it. At the end of the day a better prediction and a better model win.

I'm a civilian but I expect the science to make sense to me. I want to work on getting the BS cleared away for my own understanding first.
Edited on 05-01-2020 01:57
05-01-2020 02:04
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
We are told if we use wind power or solar panels we will reduce our carbon footprint however this takes decades to achieve so not exactly the answer if we are going to be over the climate change tipping point soon plus changing to electric cars has anyone worked out how many extra power stations would have to be built. In the UK one town has 7 electric buses but has to have backup battery supplies as if they are all plugged in overnight the national grid could not cope and that's just 7 buses it's time someone had a backup plan
05-01-2020 02:12
James___
★★★★★
(2179)
tmiddles wrote:
Bigal wrote:
My main concern is that making children believe that the world will end ...Greta thunberg who at the age of 12 ... what she is told the speaches where written for her.

Greta is 17 but your point is no less valid.

I agree it's a tidal wave of BS as with most flavors of the month (heresy, communism, terrorism, and every fashionable emergency in it's time)

But what is a better way to fight back?
1- try to frustrate the BSers by denying them any cooperation? A head in the sand stubborn denial to grant them one inch of ground? To look like fools in the process as basic facts are denied? I believe this approach helps BS the most.
2- beat the wrong theory with the right one. Get the science right by working with it. At the end of the day a better prediction and a better model win.

I'm a civilian but I expect the science to make sense to me. I want to work on getting the BS cleared away for my own understanding first.




If it makes you guys feel better, tell Bigal that some kids do have parents who stay in school. They also don't accept rides from strangers because their teachers taught them that. That's not up to their parents who work to support them. They pay taxes, it is up to the teacher to teach the kid.
Like Bigal says, someone else needs to tell his granddaughter but not him. Her school must really be special if it teaches her not to accept candy or rides from strangers. Otherwise she might be afraid if some guy says "hey little girl, I have some candy for you". If she listens to Bigal she can tell him you kidnapped/molested me and are a bad person.
Of course, some kids die when kidnapped. What scares his granddaughter? A stranger offering her candy or climate change? It's not a stranger offering her candy. Just the wrong answer. And with Bigal, I would beat him until he is "little al" for using a supposed granddaughter in such a way. He in my opinion simply doesn't care about kids.
A hint Bigal, teach your kids. Educate them. It will be more difficult for them to be kidnapped or to become the victim of sex trafficking. People who allow for it don't deserve mercy.
Bigal ignored this part about concern for his granddaughter. I feel sorry for her.
05-01-2020 02:25
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
Well your welcome to try making me little Al but just goes to show your loosing the argument by making threats. As for my granddaughter and many other children around the world that have been told by so called climate change activists that the world is going to end because being educated watch the news and listen to interviews made by these by these unemployed bums who wouldn't know climate change if it bit them on the bum being young are easily lead to believe them and makes it difficult for family to change their minds when the rest of their class is saying it as well. So being uneducated having only one degree I believe that the activists keep it shut and talk to the political sector after all they have the power and the real knowledge unlike you.
05-01-2020 02:31
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
Bigal wrote:
Well your welcome to try making me little Al but just goes to show your loosing the argument by making threats. As for my granddaughter and many other children around the world that have been told by so called climate change activists that the world is going to end because being educated watch the news and listen to interviews made by these by these unemployed bums who wouldn't know climate change if it bit them on the bum being young are easily lead to believe them and makes it difficult for family to change their minds when the rest of their class is saying it as well. So being uneducated having only one degree I believe that the activists keep it shut and talk to the political sector after all they have the power and the real knowledge unlike you.


I think people are wired to have crisis.

Baby boomers grew up with duck and cover. I can't imagine processing that as a kid.

05-01-2020 02:36
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
In answer to tmiddles Greta was 12 when she started and is 16 now and looks forward to going back to school as she said in her interview a couple of days ago which brings up another point how much schooling has she missed
05-01-2020 02:44
keepit
★★★☆☆
(969)
Tmid,
I was in grade school when the duck and cover bit got going. I don't remember it being much of an issue to me. I'm more concerned about it now than i was then.

Bigal,
I don't intend to be critical of you but here you go with suggesting that Greta go to formal school rather than talk about global warming.
Edited on 05-01-2020 02:46
05-01-2020 02:52
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
It's ok to be critical that's the point of a forum rather than make idle threats I just think Greta would be better informed if she where educated in school rather than being on the road with the activists who have only one agenda
05-01-2020 02:58
keepit
★★★☆☆
(969)
I consider her a hero who has a mission.
And a tremendous audience.
Edited on 05-01-2020 02:58
05-01-2020 02:59
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
Bigal wrote:
It's ok to be critical that's the point of a forum rather than make idle threats I just think Greta would be better informed if she where educated in school rather than being on the road with the activists who have only one agenda


I personally would not do well in the public eye as she is. I think it's a real threat to her psychologically. Susan Boyle suffered and no one hated her.
05-01-2020 03:03
James___
★★★★★
(2179)
Bigal wrote:
Well your welcome to try making me little Al but just goes to show your loosing the argument by making threats. As for my granddaughter and many other children around the world that have been told by so called climate change activists that the world is going to end because being educated watch the news and listen to interviews made by these by these unemployed bums who wouldn't know climate change if it bit them on the bum being young are easily lead to believe them and makes it difficult for family to change their minds when the rest of their class is saying it as well. So being uneducated having only one degree I believe that the activists keep it shut and talk to the political sector after all they have the power and the real knowledge unlike you.



Your post seems to be more of a hate filled rant than anything. Could you please rewrite it using proper Engleske grammar. That would be most helpful. Many non-native English speakers find the English language helpful, don't you?
Did you know that in India it is the 2nd most spoken language after Hindi? There are over 120 different dialects of Hindi which makes communication between the different people's of India difficult.
And if you lived in Turkey, you might speak 4 or 5 different languages because of your neighbouring countries. Yet if you only speak Engleske, only 1 language, why do you struggle so much with it?
Edited on 05-01-2020 03:04
05-01-2020 03:05
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
And I agree however at such a young age can be easily influenced given the time on her own would have made her own judgment but you can't tell me after 4 years on the road with the activists her judgment hasn't been swayed just a bit.
She has been paraded all over the world giving speeches written for her so I rest my case I don't want to upset anyone but that's my view and this forum is for debate so let's keep it that way
05-01-2020 03:09
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
Sorry James if I came across hate filled I was replying to a moron who threatened me I just wanted a debate but a moron annoyed me as for the Gramma it was written in haste so apologies for that as well however you spell English this way lol
05-01-2020 03:29
James___
★★★★★
(2179)
Bigal wrote:
Sorry James if I came across hate filled I was replying to a moron who threatened me I just wanted a debate but a moron annoyed me as for the Gramma it was written in haste so apologies for that as well however you spell English this way lol



You need help with your English. I find it offensive. What country are you from?

Sorry James if I came across hate filled I was replying to a moron

That's poor English. You should have written I am sorry James. Notice the period to end a sentence?
It was not my attention to be hateful in my writings. That's better grammar.
to continue, as I was replying to you. You bother me.
That is a better usage of the Engleske language. It is sad that you as an American who graduated from their school and yet don't know your own language. How sad. Also pathetic. An American who doesn't know English.
It is people like you who have taught me to take pride in speaking Engleske as a 2nd language. And for this I do Thank You. At the same time I also have no more time for your bigotry. It serves no purpose any more. Bigotry did encourage me to learn and now that I have learned, it serves no purpose other than to promote bigotry. People are only better because they do. And if they don't do, then why?
05-01-2020 03:38
keepit
★★★☆☆
(969)
I didn't know Greta had been speaking for so long. I guess if one thinks about it, it is a pretty abnormal way of life for a youngster. There;s a tradeoff, i understand that.
We should be grateful to her for her sacrifice.
05-01-2020 05:36
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
keepit wrote:
We should be grateful to her for her sacrifice.


Yeah and people shouldn't attack her.
05-01-2020 08:31
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
Well I don't believe I've attacked her I just think she should have been allowed a childhood
05-01-2020 09:10
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
Bigal wrote:
Well I don't believe I've attacked her I just think she should have been allowed a childhood

Our Class Act in chief has attacking 16yos covered:
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
So ridiculous. Greta must work on her Anger Management problem, then go to a good old fashioned movie with a friend! Chill Greta, Chill!
Quoting the Tweet by Roma Downey
@RealRomaDowney
· Dec 11, 2019
Congrats @GretaThunberg https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1204743717132914688


To her credit her response was really funny.
She then adapted her Twitter bio to say she was "a teenager working on her anger management problem. Currently chilling and watching a good old fashioned movie with a friend".
05-01-2020 09:30
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
tmiddles wrote: Our Class Act in chief has attacking 16yos covered:

Aaaah, the dishonesty of the TDS-impaired.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-01-2020 11:43
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
IBdaMann wrote:
... dishonesty ....

When it first came up I worried politics were off topic but as I hoped it's been one of the most productive! Here's why:

When Galileo struggled to argue a solar system he dealt with the stubborn insistance by those wanting what they liked better to be true, regardless of any evidence to the contrary (the Sun orbitting Earth).

This will always be a force fighting scientific progress and any rational thought.

IBD actually nails it by calling this foe a zombie (warmazombie to his agenda), because they cannot think critically. As such identifying a zombie is an important custodial task to any debate.

ITN/IBD are to my view zombie's most clearly demonstrated in their political protesting. Above I quoted Trump and linked directly to him and it was called "dishonest". Previously I quoted and linked to Trumps first political ad and was called a "Liar":
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:OK as it's only a 30 sec spot I'm going to give the whole transcript..
...you are a LIAR ....
source link
Note that it's the insistance that the facts are falsified, not a perspective on the same facts. It's a refusal to accept reality based on a desire for it to simply not be so. Maybe it's often easier to diagnose in someone by drawing them off topic. Anyway it's a very useful tool I will use again.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
Edited on 05-01-2020 12:26
05-01-2020 21:38
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
tmiddles wrote:ITN/IBD are to my view zombie's

I never really thought about it but sure, I can see how a zombie such as yourself would consider normal, rational, critically thinking people to be "zombies."

And you were refreshingly clear in specifying that you were talking about your own view and not pretending that you somehow spoke for humanity (or merely for all the smart people of the planet), so kudos on that.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-01-2020 21:58
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1623)
keepit wrote:

We should be grateful to her (Greta) for her sacrifice.


...and you called ITN a puppet?


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
05-01-2020 23:29
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
keepit wrote:We should be grateful to her for her sacrifice.

When a charlatan tries to scam people, we don't usually refer to the charade as a sacrifice for which the bilked and the scammed should be grateful.

How dare you!


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
06-01-2020 08:20
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
So you admit you have used Greta as a sacrifice shame on you!!!
06-01-2020 08:26
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
My point is if you really care you should use yourself and not a child who is easily influenced and brainwashed by your climate change activists to believing everything you believe then standing behind cowering in the shadows if you really believe you should be in the forefront making your case. Let children be children Greta has lost hers something you only get once again shame on you
06-01-2020 09:58
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
Bigal wrote:
...again shame on you
who is "you"???

First off no one on this forum has any association with or control over Greta.

Personally I feel if she were treated with respect it'd be fine.

Also just FYI Bigal all forums and discussion online of this type have participants ranging from hard line deniers to skeptics. No one passionate as Greta is about AGW would even look at these pages. So you'll have to write her patents a letter.
06-01-2020 10:07
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
So you deny that Greta wasn't influenced by anyone I know it wasn't her parents as they did not go on her first protest however my argument is that she was taken advantage of because of her age had she been a 20 or é0 year old would the activists have supported her so much the honest answer is no I agree she has highlighted the subject but the cause has lost some support because of the methods used political groups such as NATO will not be so influenced by a child speaking with passion as they would with scientific fact
06-01-2020 10:12
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
Bigal wrote:
So you deny that Greta ...
of course I don't deny that she's a kid.

There is a valid point that a kid today of 17 will likely live to be 100 and will directly have to deal with long term issues.

I think she's only truly been abused by her opposition.
06-01-2020 10:16
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
My whole argument is not that I deny nor support regarding climate change it is that it's not wholly caused by man the earth wobbles on it's own axis that's fact the poles move closer and further from the sun fact so does the fact that when closer to the sun the temperature rises a small amount causing melting of the ice which in turn influencing the weather or possibly changing the seasons around the world it's a theory along with all the other "facts" we are told
06-01-2020 10:21
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
So your saying that Greta had her childhood and education taken away by those opposing her that is untrue her only "friends" are the adults that have been with her for the last four years her friends from school have moved on she will have new friends but how many will be there when the fame fades
06-01-2020 10:59
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
Bigal wrote:
... the earth wobbles on it's own axis ..
The tilted axis of Earth just causes the seasons. But I wanted to know about the orbit changes, called Milankovitch cycles, and this is a rich subject to get into.

https://skepticalscience.com/Milankovitch.html

There were articles written in the 1970's taking about an ice age starting.



So why isn't anyone talking about it now?
06-01-2020 11:03
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
Bigal wrote:
... Greta had her childhood and education taken away...
this applies to every childhood star. She will likely continue to be extremely succesful and I'm sure she's learning a lot.

If people didn't attack her personally she'd be fine.

Howard Stern was always a good friend of Trump and had this same concern about his mental health going into politics. Having people hate you is a hard thing to deal with.
06-01-2020 11:18
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
Can I point out Judy garland a childhood star ended up an acholic as was her daughter Liza minelli you can find countless childhood stars who's lives have not been so great after .
And my whole point of this thread is to ask why are we not told that the earth has it's own natural cycles instead of being told it's all our fault it's time for the activists to be honest
And man up all very well saying it's our fault do something about it but not give credible ideas what electric cars need to be charged this creates a drain on the power available which means more power stations needed wind power won't be enough nor solar power so suggestions please
06-01-2020 13:10
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(2037)
Bigal wrote:...why are we not told that the earth has it's own natural cycles ...
Subject of my own first topic here:
Tangier Island , should it be used as an example?

However the acknowledgement that there are natural causes does not somehow mean there are ONLY natural causes.

Liars aren't always wrong! I agree that it's a flat out LIE, dirty, rotten and false to say something like: "See it's the hottest year on record! That's proof!" since you could have said that 100 years ago and 6000 years ago.

But it should be a call to up the game, to be more intelligent in our discussion, not to give it all up.

Greta is a rock star. I don't think her lot is tragic at all though it is high risk. Hopefully things work out for her. Her chances are good.

As to the other issue:
Any teacher telling small children life will end due to anything other than old age should be fired on the spot.
06-01-2020 14:02
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
Trouble is it's not teachers who are telling them that it's the activists who when interview is given says we are at the point of no return and children being children will take 2 and 2 and make 5 I have seen no scientific proof to back the statement up we are at point if no return. Man is to blame in some cases flooding for example by building on the flood plains giving the water no where to go so to say we haven't seen flooding like this is not surprising places can have their own micro climate so not surprised to see it change if factors in that area have been changed by man.
As for Greta I hope she is able to adjust to life back in school but it's not going to be easy for her
06-01-2020 17:12
James___
★★★★★
(2179)
Bigal wrote:
Trouble is it's not teachers who are telling them that it's the activists who when interview is given says we are at the point of no return and children being children will take 2 and 2 and make 5 I have seen no scientific proof to back the statement up we are at point if no return. Man is to blame in some cases flooding for example by building on the flood plains giving the water no where to go so to say we haven't seen flooding like this is not surprising places can have their own micro climate so not surprised to see it change if factors in that area have been changed by man.
As for Greta I hope she is able to adjust to life back in school but it's not going to be easy for her



And as you just said, you're not telling her anything. You don't support freedom of speech. They don't have that in China. Many kids suffer because of environmental pollution. That's what you're suggesting, right? It is.
After reading your posts, I'm starting to warm up to Greta. Didn't used to like her. She didn't talk about scientists whose opinions we trust need to make sure to get the science right. That should be the focus but even you aren't saying that.
Your just saying that for kids sake we should be watching Barney the Purple Dinosaur. That makes kids like your granddaughter happy. Why many parents like Barney. Play this for your granddaughter and see if she likes it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwLLH9EZiqc

And if climate news causes her to be unhappy, tell her she can choose what media she watches. You can teach her that, I believe in you. You Got This.


p.s., this is a father and his daughter. She knows about climate change but also has a life. And from what she says, the summers are getting warmer in Germany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQeC_6bOFqs
Edited on 06-01-2020 17:17
06-01-2020 17:40
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
Facts not correct please learn to read I said it's the activists telling lies so if allowing them to tell children they will die soon the yes I'm against free speech also Greta thunberg comes from Norway and wasn't supported by her parents to start with but like good parents when she said she wanted to go with the lions they supported her and one parent accompanied her do try to keep up
06-01-2020 18:11
James___
★★★★★
(2179)
Bigal wrote:
Facts not correct please learn to read I said it's the activists telling lies so if allowing them to tell children they will die soon the yes I'm against free speech also Greta thunberg comes from Norway and wasn't supported by her parents to start with but like good parents when she said she wanted to go with the lions they supported her and one parent accompanied her do try to keep up



Greta is from Stockholm, Sweden.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=where+is+greta+thurnberg+from&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=where+is+greta+thurnberg+from&sc=8-29&sk=&cvid=FB3754756F484743ACBF25837FA1AD27

And your issue is that someone is telling lies, right?
06-01-2020 18:19
Bigal
☆☆☆☆☆
(44)
Well you did say Germany but I guess I'll give you that however getting the country wrong I doubt you can really say that's telling lies. Btw last year was hit agreed but I remember in the 70s it was much hotter last year was the second hottest in 100 years again it shows fluctuations in the weather is normal
06-01-2020 18:30
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1602)
Bigal wrote:
Facts not correct please learn to read I said it's the activists telling lies so if allowing them to tell children they will die soon the yes I'm against free speech also Greta thunberg comes from Norway and wasn't supported by her parents to start with but like good parents when she said she wanted to go with the lions they supported her and one parent accompanied her do try to keep up


I don't think she has good parents at all. They didn't seem to care she was skipping school, to hang out with a bunch of losers holding signs. They were opportunistic, when a local newspaper ran a story about their daughter, they saw a chance to cash in on it. Her mom's a writer, the free publicity likely did great for book sales, plus anything she writes about Gretta will sell well.
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