I say, let the ice melt31-12-2015 15:34 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
Almost everyone have never seen sea ice and land glaciers their entire lives. Only like, a few thousand people who live in the north, mostly Inuit people do. I say, ice serves humanity no good. They are too cold and hog too much fresh water from humanity. So, I say, let them be gone. What say you?
Edited on 31-12-2015 16:10 |
31-12-2015 15:51 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
Tai Hai Chen wrote: it seems a bad idea. there's quite a few animal species that depend on that environment: diversity is a good thing. Also, getting of the albeido effect from all that ice doesn't bring good prospects in terms of future warming. |
31-12-2015 16:02 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
Barts wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote: What species depends on ice? Reducing albedo is better. Warmer is better. Earth is too cold at the moment. Edited on 31-12-2015 16:06 |
31-12-2015 16:22 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
Tai Hai Chen wrote:Barts wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote: polar bears, certain seal species (harp seal, spotted seal and the ringed seal), walruses, certain seabird species (ivory gulls and little auks), Ice algae. check the level of dependency and reasons for ut here: http://www.greenfacts.org/en/arctic-climate-change/l-2/5-arctic-animals.htm this is just regarding artic sea ice, many other species are perfectly adapted to the tundra conditions on the lands around the arctic oceans.
you said that already, but you haven't explained why: what we know for sure is that the earth as it is today is very adequate to mammal/primate/man. And that those weren't around in periods the earth was warmer. Or by "better" you mean "better for reptiles"? I would agree with that |
31-12-2015 16:28 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
this summary is more extensive and has more species that use the arctic as part of their ecossystem: http://www.caff.is/assessment-series/97-arctic-sea-ice-ecosystem-a-summary-of-species-that-depend-on-and-associate-with/download Edited on 31-12-2015 16:30 |
31-12-2015 16:33 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tundra#Arctic
|
31-12-2015 16:35 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
Polar bears can hybridize with brown bears. Seals don't need to stay on ice. They can stay on the shore. |
31-12-2015 16:44 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
Tai Hai Chen wrote: Are you saying we should just give up on this species just because of hybridization? And it doesn't really help. Look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_speciation
You asked for species that depended on sea ice. I gave you 3 seal species that do, which contradicts your generic, vague and baseless assertion on "seals", whatever it is you think "seal" means regarding animal species. |
31-12-2015 18:04 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
Barts wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote: Species come and go. The woolly rhino, the cave lion, the saber tooth tiger, the mammoth, once inhabited ice age Europe. There are no more rhinos, lions, tigers, elephants in Europe. Today they are all in Africa and India. Edited on 31-12-2015 18:07 |
31-12-2015 19:47 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
it doesn't mean we have to, or even have the right to, speed up the process of extinction: nature does it well by itself |
31-12-2015 19:49 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
Barts wrote: Nature does not give mankind a good environment. Mankind transforms nature in order to thrive. If mankind didn't invent agriculture, today there would only be like a million humans around, tops. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqHB0X_r_Kw Edited on 31-12-2015 19:52 |
31-12-2015 19:59 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
Oh, I forgot to mention, there used to wild horses and bisons in Europe during the ice age. Today Europe has very little wild life left. Only some brown bears.
Edited on 31-12-2015 20:00 |
31-12-2015 20:03 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
Tai Hai Chen wrote:Barts wrote: Yes, it does! It allowed man to evolve! You're talking nonsense, sir.
It doesn't feel necessary to me. Anyway, what's done it's done: the question is that we clearly have done too much damage and are aware of it, so the moral imperative is to stop. We can do it too, you know.. |
31-12-2015 20:08 | |
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14862) |
Barts wrote: it doesn't mean we have to, or even have the right to, speed up the process of extinction: nature does it well by itself As if ice melting means humans are speeding up extinction. I suppose if you could be easily duped into believing Global Warming then no one should be surprised at whatever you assert next. So sitting on ice because happens to be there is "depending on it"? Interesting. I wonder how seals that live where there is no ice manage to prevent their own extinction. What do the seals know that we don't? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
31-12-2015 20:21 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
IBdaMann wrote:Barts wrote: it doesn't mean we have to, or even have the right to, speed up the process of extinction: nature does it well by itself Not just ice melting, but all the transformations humans are imposing on the planet: you should read more carefully, the number of times you interpret something wrongly is frightening. Silly, silly IBdaMann... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
Nope. nobody talked about sitting.. you're inventing stuff again..
What kind of species is a seal? Can you introduce it to me? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinniped
|
31-12-2015 20:42 | |
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14862) |
Barts wrote: Not just ice melting, but all the transformations humans are imposing on the planet: ...and I suppose humans are responsible for tectonic shifts as well. Barts wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction Dismissed. Barts wrote: What kind of species is a seal? Can you introduce it to me? Monk seal, meet Barts. Barts, meet monk seal. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
31-12-2015 20:44 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
I like seals, but to say seals would become extinct because of melting sea ice is simply silly. |
31-12-2015 20:49 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
IBdaMann wrote:Barts wrote: Not just ice melting, but all the transformations humans are imposing on the planet: ???? Barts wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction You're a lunatic lol Barts wrote: What kind of species is a seal? Can you introduce it to me? Not really one of the 3 seal species I presented as examples, is it? You are being even more dense than usual, IB.
! |
31-12-2015 21:06 | |
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14862) |
Barts wrote: Not really one of the 3 seal species I presented as examples, is it? They are two species that I am presenting. Why are they not extinct? They have no ice whatsoever in their habitats. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
31-12-2015 21:53 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
You really need to read better, dude. You'll make fewer mistakes..IBdaMann wrote:Barts wrote: Not really one of the 3 seal species I presented as examples, is it? The conversation started with Tai asking:
to which I replied:
to which you said, out of the blue:
showing no ability to distinguish between different species of seal, or the context of the conversation. Tai asked for examples of species that depend on ice, I gave them to him, your participation refering other species is nonsense.
Because they are different species. Duhh monk seal Not Equal To harp seal. .[/quote] |
31-12-2015 21:57 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
Not a single animal depends on ice. Not even penguins do. Furthermore, Inuits ought to practice agriculture when it gets warmer, so they would not have to live like bloodthirsty carnivores all the time. Remember, meat is unhealthy. Go vegan.
Edited on 31-12-2015 21:59 |
31-12-2015 22:00 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
Tai Hai Chen wrote: I just show a bunch of them that do depend on ice. With multiple sources, you just decided to ignore them. Deal with them before moving on to general baseless assertions, please. |
31-12-2015 22:01 | |
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14862) |
Barts wrote:to which you said, out of the blue: You were trying to make the case that seals somehow "depend" on the ice whereas it seems that they don't depend on it at all. Rather, it appears that they exist atop ice at times but could just as easily exist on ground that had no ice. I gave examples of seal species that exist without ice. How is it that harp seals "depend' on ice? Are you claiming that they eat it? Are you claiming the ice affords them something without which they would not survive? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
31-12-2015 22:01 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
Barts wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote: No animal depends on ice. |
31-12-2015 22:02 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
Tai Hai Chen wrote:Barts wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote: Now you're just repeating your baseless assertion. Well done. |
31-12-2015 22:04 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
Barts wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote:Barts wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote: Seals don't depend on ice. Bears don't depend on ice. Penguins don't depend on ice. People don't depend on ice. Foxes don't depend on ice. Hares don't depend on ice. Varieties of them are adapted for icy environments, but it does not mean any animal depends on ice. Edited on 31-12-2015 22:05 |
31-12-2015 22:15 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
Specific species that do depend on Arctic Sea Ice with supporting link, to the attention of Tai:Barts wrote: |
31-12-2015 22:19 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
You don't seem to understand what species mean, do you, Tai?
Changing your language to "Varieties of animals", whatever that means, doesn't save you. Your original question:
Just recognize I'm right. It's the honest thing to do. |
31-12-2015 22:27 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
Barts wrote: Inuit people are adapted to an icy environment. They are not a species. Polar bears, Arctic fox, Arctic hares, Arctic owls, none of them are species. Zoologists over stated the number of species. Most of the so called species are actually varieties, not species. Edited on 31-12-2015 22:48 |
31-12-2015 23:34 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
Tai Hai Chen wrote:Barts wrote: Pfuuuu.. you're not very smart, I can tell... Inuit people are part of the human species.. All people are, it's just one species, it's called Humans. Polar bears are a unique species. So do Arctic Foxes Arctic Hares Arctic Owls Look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_bear Species: U. maritimus from the Genus: Ursus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_fox Genus: Vulpes Species: V. lagopus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowy_owl Genus: Bubo Species: B. scandiacus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_hare
Genus: Lepus Species: L. arcticus you really need to improve your taxonomy skills, dude. pfuuuuuuu |
31-12-2015 23:42 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus
They are distinct things. If you want to rise again the issue of hybridization let me remind you that generally hybrids cannot interbreed sucessfully (because they are not a species, but the fruit of interbreed between two species, usually from the same genus), which is kinda important, if you want them not to go extinct. Think Horses and Donkeys. |
01-01-2016 00:28 | |
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14862) |
Barts wrote: Somebody sure seems desperate for a win. Barts wrote:Pfuuuu.. you're not very smart, I can tell... Awesome! Pot meet kettle. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
01-01-2016 01:12 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
IBdaMann wrote:Barts wrote: Not really.. this is actually too easy, I'll get bored in no time: you people need to find someone that can actually give a fight. Barts wrote:Pfuuuu.. you're not very smart, I can tell... Ehhh, it seems a fair representation for someone that doesn't know what a species is, or distinguish the concept from genus. |
01-01-2016 02:05 | |
Tai Hai Chen★★★★☆ (1085) |
There is no formal definition of species. I'm sure, some alien scientists, class Inuits as a separate species from other people. Doesn't mean it's socially acceptable. |
01-01-2016 02:12 | |
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14862) |
Tai Hai Chen wrote: "Species" is determined by ability to reproduce. Yes, there are gray areas. I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
01-01-2016 02:18 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
IBdaMann wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote: [/quote] You're being inaccurate. It's ability to reproduce fertile offspring. And there's absolutely no doubt that Polar Bear is indeed a species, like Tai Chen foolishly tried to deny, and that Polar Bear - Grizzle Bear hybrids are not a separate species, just an hybrid. |
01-01-2016 02:21 | |
Barts★☆☆☆☆ (52) |
Tai Hai Chen wrote: I wouldn't be surprised you or IB would try class to classify people as a different species from people. Any "alien scientist" or "you-kind" that would do that, would be just throwing nonsense into the air with no logical or evidence support, obviously. Like IB and you do here... Nonsense |
01-01-2016 02:48 | |
still learning★★☆☆☆ (244) |
Tai Hai Chen wrote: Take a beginning biology class sometime. When you've done the coursework you'll be expected to be able to explain what a species is. Get it wrong, maybe flunk the course. |
01-01-2016 06:20 | |
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14862) |
Barts wrote: It's ability to reproduce fertile offspring. Yes. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
04-01-2016 08:33 | |
Into the Night★★★★★ (22536) |
Barts wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote:Barts wrote:Tai Hai Chen wrote: Argumentum ad lapidem. You have not provided any counter examples of why any animals you have listed depend on ice. You are just dismissing Tai Hai Chen's statement out of hand. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
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