Remember me
▼ Content

Hurricane mechanism



Page 1 of 212>
Hurricane mechanism08-09-2019 20:45
keepit
★★★☆☆
(706)
When a hurricane starts is the surface water warmer than the air above?
Certainly the summer air cools faster (as fall approaches) than the summer water does but is that the story?
Edited on 08-09-2019 20:47
08-09-2019 21:10
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5022)
keepit wrote:
When a hurricane starts is the surface water warmer than the air above?
Certainly the summer air cools faster (as fall approaches) than the summer water does but is that the story?


The warm water evaporates and rises (bouyancy). This is always happening out at sea and alone is insufficient to form a hurricane.

... *but* when you have a bunch of cold air at altitude in conjunction with the warm humid air rising, now that cold air is going to do what the water in your tub does when you drain it. The rising warm, humid air serves to give it a kick, which is why hurricanes often gain strength over water but start to die the moment they hit land.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
08-09-2019 21:17
keepit
★★★☆☆
(706)
Is it correct that the (tropical storm) starts above the surface?
08-09-2019 21:25
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1474)
keepit wrote:
When a hurricane starts is the surface water warmer than the air above?
Certainly the summer air cools faster (as fall approaches) than the summer water does but is that the story?


We've had hurricanes in December, sometimes late December too. Remember Hurricane Sandy a few years ago, which later was known as Super-Storm Sandy? They were having one of their severe winter storms, which combined with Sandy, to really make a mess of the northeast.

Hurricanes are just a combination of many things, all coming together, at the same time and place. Summer just brings a few of those condition together, pretty much daily. I think cold wind blowing down from the north has some to do with it. Guess Global Warming is good for something... No more more frozen north (Greenland is melting), less chance of hurricanes. But, of course I'm wrong, since cold air has nothing to do with Climate Change, and has no significant impact (or some other dismissive phrasing). Cooling is 'denier' science, and total bullshit...
08-09-2019 21:25
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5022)
keepit wrote: Is it correct that the (tropical storm) starts above the surface?

Hurricanes, tropical storms, low pressure systems, etc... they all form from warm air rising and cold air descending which causes the storm.

I'm not sure about exactly what you are asking but I think the answer is yes, that entire column from the ground up in which the rising/descending of air is occurring is "where" the storm forms.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
08-09-2019 21:35
keepit
★★★☆☆
(706)
another question - about thermohaline circulation. I've heard that greenland melting will slow down the thermohaline circulation. Therefore, the thermal energy from the equator won't make it up to greenland and the oceans where the hurricanes form will be even warmer.
08-09-2019 22:35
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
keepit wrote:
another question - about thermohaline circulation. I've heard that greenland melting will slow down the thermohaline circulation. Therefore, the thermal energy from the equator won't make it up to greenland and the oceans where the hurricanes form will be even warmer.


All ocean circulation is thermohaline circulation. Most such circulation goes nowhere near Greenland.

Greenland isn't melting. It is largely an ice plateau at 6000 ft above sea level at approx. latitude 72 degN. This plateau is surrounded by mountains on all sides. The only outlet is through a gap in the mountains in the northwest of the nation. There is no river there, just a glacier.

The only current that passes by Greenland is the North Atlantic Drift, a cold current, running along the bottom. Cold water from Greenland or from the Artic ocean simply combines with this cold current. Cold water does not block the flow of cold water.

You've been watching the movie 'Day After Tomorrow' again, haven't you?

Life is not the movies, especially one as spectacularly bad as that one!


The Parrot Killer
08-09-2019 22:52
keepit
★★★☆☆
(706)
Greenland is melting (net). The THC does send warm water in greenland's direction but - according to Wiki, a weakening of the THC in 2013 caused a weaker hurricane season. Go figure?
08-09-2019 23:03
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5022)
keepit wrote:
Greenland is melting (net). The THC does send warm water in greenland's direction but - according to Wiki, a weakening of the THC in 2013 caused a weaker hurricane season. Go figure?

Greenland is certainly melting ... and it is freezing. By all the evidence I have (absent any valid, complete datasets) the Greenland ice sheet is accumulating net ice mass. Check my signature block; one of this site's warmizombies resorted to disputing the meaning of "accumulation" as a smokescreen for the evidence I provided.

Do you know what calving is? The fact that it is happening tells you clearly, beyond any doubt, that the ice mass is increasing.

Are you aware that anything abandoned on the ice in Greenland becomes buried under ice at the rate of meters per year? If Greenland were melting (net) then objects would remain on top ... it would not be possible for them to teleport down hundreds of meters into the ice.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
08-09-2019 23:19
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
keepit wrote:
Greenland is melting (net). The THC does send warm water in greenland's direction but - according to Wiki, a weakening of the THC in 2013 caused a weaker hurricane season. Go figure?


Nope. No warm currents near Greenland at all.


The Parrot Killer
09-09-2019 03:38
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1474)
keepit wrote:
Greenland is melting (net). The THC does send warm water in greenland's direction but - according to Wiki, a weakening of the THC in 2013 caused a weaker hurricane season. Go figure?


THC levels have increased significantly since the 60s. Think legalizing Marijuana was an incredibly bad idea. Think just stiff fine (less money to buy drugs), would have been good enough. Dealers would still face prison time, as they probably do other things, besides selling pot.
09-09-2019 04:17
keepit
★★★☆☆
(706)
It's going to be interesting how the rest of the hurricane season unfolds. Hopefully no more disasters.
09-09-2019 04:19
keepit
★★★☆☆
(706)
IBDM,
How does calving indicate that ice mass is increasing?
09-09-2019 11:42
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1394)
Into the Night wrote:
Greenland isn't melting.
Made up claim. Valid data please.
IBdaMann wrote:the evidence I have (absent any valid, complete datasets)
Not good enough. Try again.
keepit wrote:
IBDM,
How does calving indicate that ice mass is increasing?
Remember to follow your own rules IBD. Valid data sets only.
keepit wrote:
Greenland is melting (net)
This is the consensus and the data being presented. link

But ITN/IBD mantra is unwavering:
09-09-2019 17:40
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1474)
A consensus doesn't mean much. Billions of people believe in one god or another. Isn't that a consensus, that god exists? Therefore, god is going to fix everything, or destroy it, we have no control over it. Consensus is a shared belief/faith, doesn't prove or disprove anything, just that a group of people came to an agreement.

Ice melts pretty much every summer, even before we burned fossil fuels, chunks of floating ice was the cause of many ship wrecks. It's well documented in ship logs, it's nothing new. Every winter, the ice returns, so it can again melt, break off, and wreck some ships. It never ends... Wouldn't we be much better of if all that ice finally melted? Wouldn't Greenland, actual be green again?

If something isn't broken, why would you take it apart and 'fix' it? Nature isn't always kind or pretty, like in the movies. It's kind of rough and unpleasant a lot of the time, we just learned to adapt to it, not how to change it. We didn't stop the rain, snow, or summer heat, we built shelters to protect us. It's still raining, snowing, the sun shining bright, just outside.

Anyway, if consensus really matters, then god exists, and will either fix it, or not, since there is a much larger consensus, that says so...
09-09-2019 19:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
keepit wrote:
It's going to be interesting how the rest of the hurricane season unfolds. Hopefully no more disasters.


Did you know disasters are part of life? They happen all the time.

* sudden floods in Colorado river canyons.
* flash floods in the desert.
* wildfire
* damaging hail.
* ice and fog resulting in multiple car traffic accidents where people are killed.
* tornado
* hurricanes

Get used to it, dude. Learn to cope with them when they happen.


The Parrot Killer
09-09-2019 19:58
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
keepit wrote:
IBDM,
How does calving indicate that ice mass is increasing?


If ice is not increasing, no flow of the glacier.


The Parrot Killer
09-09-2019 20:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Greenland isn't melting.
Made up claim. Valid data please.

Attempted force of negative proof fallacy.
IBdaMann wrote:the evidence I have (absent any valid, complete datasets)
tmiddles wrote:
Not good enough. Try again.
keepit wrote:
IBDM,
How does calving indicate that ice mass is increasing?
Remember to follow your own rules IBD. Valid data sets only.
Question already answered.
tmiddles wrote:
keepit wrote:
Greenland is melting (net)
This is the consensus and the data being presented.
...deleted Holy Links...

Consensus is not used in science. Invalid data. Mugging up random numbers is not data. See the Data Mine.
tmiddles wrote:
But ITN/IBD mantra is unwavering:

Not a mantra. But we are unwavering.


The Parrot Killer
09-09-2019 20:29
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5022)
keepit wrote: IBDM, How does calving indicate that ice mass is increasing?

Calving is the growing ice flowing outward and simply breaking off when it gets to the sea. If the ice mass were shrinking then the ice radius would be shrinking and there would not be ice growing outward to the sea to calve.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
09-09-2019 21:35
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1394)
IBdaMann wrote:
keepit wrote: IBDM, How does calving indicate that ice mass is increasing?

... growing ice flowing outward ...

See keepit, IBD has a super power. He can pretend things are anything he'd like them to be.



link
09-09-2019 22:19
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
keepit wrote: IBDM, How does calving indicate that ice mass is increasing?

... growing ice flowing outward ...

See keepit, IBD has a super power. He can pretend things are anything he'd like them to be.



link


None of these are glaciers.


The Parrot Killer
09-09-2019 22:42
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1474)
Why only those months, for just hose two years? Best you could dig up, to prove something? Actually, Google does the work for you. I try occasionally to pull out satellite images, for the month before the annual melt, but very hard to do for each year. The search results are spammed by global warming crap, and images of catastrophic melting.

The melt/freeze cycle happens every year, usually more melting, but not consistent for every year. I think by viewing the max/min ice each year, side-by-side, without selecting the bast ones, it would be pretty obvious, that it's different every year, and trend.

People get so wrapped up in the warming, they don't pay attention the annual cooling. You see only the parts you want to see, ignore everything else. If global warming was actually a problem, then every year would be consistently worse than the previous, no breaks, no back-tracking. It isn't that obvious, because it would exist without some misleading math to smooth over anything that might get in the way of selling the hysteria. Sort of like going to a used car lot, there is a price on the windshield. You know that, there is some wiggle room, if you work at. The salesman knows you are going to try, and will do his best to stick the price advertised. After a while, he'll give in just a little, keep you interested, let you feel like you are winning. When you sit down in the office, to do the paperwork, your hard negotiating quickly shrinks, with all the taxes, fees, and BS, you don't know if you really need to be paying. The final total, is still going to be more than the price you saw on the windshield. You might be able to catch a few fees that the salesman, may or may not take of the bill of sales, just because his says so, doesn't mean he did. Basically, nothing really changed, just talked about it a lot, and you leave feeling like you got a good deal, or leave feeling screwed over... Except for James... Most people don't like to walk away feeling screwed over. You would be at the car lot, if you didn't need a car. You could walk away, and try a different lot, which will be more of the same, maybe a salesman of better skills, or you run out of patience and time. Obviously, private sales of vehicles are better, the owner isn't likely a skill salesman, and knows what's wrong with the car, less likely to successfully lie about it, when asked.
10-09-2019 00:36
keepit
★★★☆☆
(706)
Wiki provides a good description of ice calving. I didn't see anything in there that indicates increasing ice causes it.
10-09-2019 02:02
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1394)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Why only those months, for just hose two years? Best you could dig up, to prove something?

As opposed to everything? Kinda answers itself.

I was simply refuting itn's refusal to acknowledge anything. It's very easy to prove that guy wrong

HarveyH55 wrote:
The search results are spammed by global warming crap, and images of catastrophic melting.

Which is why I posted the clearest thing I could find first and not a graph or chart.

HarveyH55 wrote:
. If global warming was actually a problem, then every year would be consistently worse than the previous, no breaks, no back-tracking.


Since the temperature has always gone up and down and zig zagged it makes sense if global warming is a reality it would simply stack on top of a zigzag and you would still see a zigzag
Edited on 10-09-2019 02:04
10-09-2019 02:28
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
keepit wrote:
Wiki provides a good description of ice calving. I didn't see anything in there that indicates increasing ice causes it.


Wiki discarded as a source. It is biased, incomplete, or just plain wrong.


The Parrot Killer
10-09-2019 02:29
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1394)
Into the Night wrote:
Wiki discarded as a source. It is biased, ...

Meaningless criticism from you since you discard all data as being invalid. It's like asking a paper shredder to write a book review.
10-09-2019 02:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Why only those months, for just hose two years? Best you could dig up, to prove something?

As opposed to everything? Kinda answers itself.

Yes it does. You want to introduce bias. You also don't seem to know what a glacier is.
tmiddles wrote:
I was simply refuting itn's refusal to acknowledge anything. It's very easy to prove that guy wrong

You haven't done it yet!
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
The search results are spammed by global warming crap, and images of catastrophic melting.

Which is why I posted the clearest thing I could find first and not a graph or chart.

By posting pictures of ice fields in summer??
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
. If global warming was actually a problem, then every year would be consistently worse than the previous, no breaks, no back-tracking.


Since the temperature has always gone up and down and zig zagged it makes sense if global warming is a reality it would simply stack on top of a zigzag and you would still see a zigzag

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.


The Parrot Killer
10-09-2019 02:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wiki discarded as a source. It is biased, ...

Meaningless criticism from you since you discard all data as being invalid. It's like asking a paper shredder to write a book review.


Lie.


The Parrot Killer
10-09-2019 02:33
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1394)
Into the Night wrote:
Greenland isn't melting. It is largely an ice plateau

Ice is melting. Some of it is not in glacier form.
Into the Night wrote:
It is not possible to measure....

So you say about everything. Since you've never qualified anything it's like the barking of a dog.
Edited on 10-09-2019 02:34
10-09-2019 02:58
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Greenland isn't melting. It is largely an ice plateau

Ice is melting. Some of it is not in glacier form.

Only coastal ice melts in the summer, dude. The plateau is at 6000ft at latitude 72 deg N. It isn't melting or even getting close to 32 deg F.
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
It is not possible to measure....

So you say about everything. Since you've never qualified anything it's like the barking of a dog.

Lie. YALIF.


The Parrot Killer
10-09-2019 03:22
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1394)
Into the Night wrote:
Only coastal ice melts in the summer,

Those image are on the same date in July
10-09-2019 03:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Only coastal ice melts in the summer,

Those image are on the same date in July


Lie. July 24th, 2009 is not the same date as July 24th, 2011.

You are not showing coastal ice. You are showing ice sheets at sea.

They are not coastal ice nor glaciers.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 10-09-2019 03:31
10-09-2019 03:33
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1394)
Into the Night wrote:
. You are showing ice sheets at sea.

They are not coastal ice nor glaciers.


tmiddles wrote:


link


"A British glaciologist who has been studying the Petermann Glacier in north-west Greenland, which is over 300km long and makes up 6% of the Greenland ice sheet, described pictures showing how fast it had melted as 'gob-smacking.'"
10-09-2019 03:35
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
. You are showing ice sheets at sea.

They are not coastal ice nor glaciers.


tmiddles wrote:


link


"A British glaciologist who has been studying the Petermann Glacier in north-west Greenland, which is over 300km long and makes up 6% of the Greenland ice sheet, described pictures showing how fast it had melted as 'gob-smacking.'"


These are not pictures of any glacier. You are lying again.


The Parrot Killer
10-09-2019 03:50
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1394)
Into the Night wrote:
These are not pictures of any glacier. You are lying again.


The photo caption says it's of Peterman Glacier.
10-09-2019 04:31
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1474)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
These are not pictures of any glacier. You are lying again.


The photo caption says it's of Peterman Glacier.


Think the dude was standing on what was left of the glacier. It was marked front, which seems odd, since the glacier would have been there yet, moves slow. Old photos, maybe it's made some progress since then.

If glaciers only melted, they would have been gone a long time ago. Oh, that's right, most of them were gone along time ago, just a few hold-outs. It's like a lot of the year-round snow and ice, what melts in the summer, is roughly replaced in the winter. Sometimes the summer wins...
10-09-2019 04:49
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
These are not pictures of any glacier. You are lying again.


The photo caption says it's of Peterman Glacier.


Too bad. It's not a picture of a glacier.


The Parrot Killer
10-09-2019 05:25
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1394)
Into the Night wrote:
Too bad.


What's that ITN ? You have a reason we're not allowed to discuss things here? What a surprise!

Anyway, as the "glaciologist" said it was a nelting. Pretty cool glaciologist is a niche.

HarveyH55 wrote:
If glaciers only melted, they would have been gone a long time ago. Oh, that's right, most of them were gone along time ago, just a few hold-outs.


That's what I wonder about. We know since the last ice age they've been melting so it makes sense that would be melting still so it seems like you need to look how much more quickly they were melting if there was extra melting.

It makes the assertion there's no melting especially stupid of course.
10-09-2019 07:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9860)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Too bad.


What's that ITN ? You have a reason we're not allowed to discuss things here? What a surprise!

Anyway, as the "glaciologist" said it was a nelting. Pretty cool glaciologist is a niche.

HarveyH55 wrote:
If glaciers only melted, they would have been gone a long time ago. Oh, that's right, most of them were gone along time ago, just a few hold-outs.


That's what I wonder about. We know since the last ice age they've been melting so it makes sense that would be melting still so it seems like you need to look how much more quickly they were melting if there was extra melting.

It makes the assertion there's no melting especially stupid of course.


Word salad. Try English. It works better.


The Parrot Killer
10-09-2019 08:39
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1394)
Into the Night wrote:
Word salad.

The ice has melted over the 12,000 years since the last ice age. Melting now could be in part or in whole a continuation of that melting.

If there is an additional reason for the ice to melt we'd need to consider that.
Page 1 of 212>





Join the debate Hurricane mechanism:

Remember me

Related content
ThreadsRepliesLast post
Hurricane Dorian, sign of Global Warming?4709-09-2019 19:15
The mechanism of the vertical circulation of the waters of the oceans301-05-2019 20:48
Climate Change Was The Engine That Powered Hurricane Maria's Devastating Rains019-04-2019 15:38
Hurricane Michael Is Officially More Powerful than Hurricane Katrina3115-10-2018 22:49
Hurricane Florence is a Once IN A Lifetime storm3618-09-2018 19:45
Articles
Al Gore: Hurricane Katrina and Global Warming
▲ Top of page
Public Poll
Who is leading the renewable energy race?

US

EU

China

Japan

India

Brazil

Other

Don't know


Thanks for supporting Climate-Debate.com.
Copyright © 2009-2019 Climate-Debate.com | About | Contact