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Half20-09-2019 13:57
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
I hope this doesn't sound like a beatles song and this doesn't concern global warming deniers.
Spending halved and therefore GDP halved and therefore anthropogenic CO2 emissions halved. Imagine all your expenses being halved. The national debt eliminated. Interest on national debt eliminated. Your mortgage interest eliminated. Rental payments halved. Your fuel expenses halved. Food expenses halved. Student debt eliminated. Work week halved. Time spend golfing, fishing, and with family doubled. Plenty of jobs because no one could work more than half of what they do now.
The Fed and the Treasury could do this if they didn't have to listen to the politicians.
Anyone who isn't concerned with global warming and CO2 emissions needn't worry about CO2 being halved do they?

I need to get a life!
Edited on 20-09-2019 14:01
20-09-2019 14:45
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
keepit wrote:
Spending halved and therefore GDP halved and therefore anthropogenic CO2 emissions halved.


This makes me think of Weight Watchers and similar diets. In those diets there are points and you want to reduce your points. But some food are zero points.

Only some spending causes environmental problems and other spending is actually beneficial.


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed: The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference& Proof: no data is ever valid for them.
Edited on 20-09-2019 14:45
20-09-2019 16:57
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
keepit wrote:Spending halved and therefore GDP halved and therefore anthropogenic CO2 emissions halved.

Spending halved because productivity is halved and therefore income is halved ... which means your real expenses remain the same but the national debt effectively becomes doubled ... until the national credit rating is cut, then cut again, and then cut again, until the cost to borrow baloons out of control and the national debt starts to grow like the blob.

keepit wrote: Your mortgage interest eliminated.

Why would I be imagining this?

keepit wrote: Rental payments halved.

Well, rental income would be halved, yes, or maybe cut even more.

keepit wrote: Student debt eliminated.

How? Debt does not simply "go away."

keepit wrote: Work week halved.

Workers seek additional hours, not fewer.

keepit wrote: Time spend golfing, fishing, and with family doubled.

This reminds me of a Honduran friend who explained why Central Americans are usually pretty good at soccer. It's because they have plenty of time to practice soccer ... because they don't have jobs to go to.

keepit wrote: Plenty of jobs because no one could work more than half of what they do now.

Workers want more hours, not fewer. Oh, I already said that.

keepit wrote: The Fed and the Treasury could do this if they didn't have to listen to the politicians.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the sovereign Treasury and Federal Reserve! Please bow as they walk by with all your former money.

keepit wrote: Anyone who isn't concerned with global warming and CO2 emissions needn't worry about CO2 being halved do they?

Yes.

1. We need more CO2 for the plants.
2. We need more work hours to make more money to do and buy all the greatest things that life has to offer.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-09-2019 17:38
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1431)
Looks like Yang will get at least one vote.
20-09-2019 17:45
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
IBDM,
Student debt. I think most of the debt is owed to the fed govt. The fed govt. can just forgive the debt. If student debt is owed to someone other than the fed the fed can just buy that debt and then forgive it.
Mortgage interest. Same as with student debt.
Rental payments. Rental payments would be halved because landlord mortgage interest would be eliminated.
Workers' hours. A large number of workers would like to go golfing and fishing, etc if they could afford it. Convincing the others to work half time would be an interesting problem.
Fed reserve and Treasury. The Fed and Treasury would have to buy a lot of debt.
The national debt would be largely eliminated by printing money to pay the treasuries owed to foreigners to help the the fed and treasury buy back debt.. The budget deficit would shrink because interest on the national debt would be largely eliminated, and the military expenditures would have to be reduced.
The plants are doing fine.
Edited on 20-09-2019 17:46
20-09-2019 17:49
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1431)
Too many dollars chasing too few goods.

Massive inflation a devalued dollar.
20-09-2019 17:49
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Productivity is a measure of efficiency, not total production.
20-09-2019 17:53
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Gas,
My pie in the sky plan doesn't change the total number of dollars, ti just changes who controls the dollars. Many dollars would go to foreigners and the world economy is growing so much that the world economy could absorb them with out causing as much inflation out there as one would think (i think?).
20-09-2019 17:54
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1431)
How do you propose to work half as much and produce the same?
20-09-2019 17:56
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Gas,
That's the thing, work half as much, produce half as much, and therefore produce half as much CO2.
I'm sure producing half as much CO2 doesn't bother you.

Of course, there are some workaholics out there who would want to work a lot even if they didn't need the money. I've always thought they should be medicated. Just kidding!!!
Edited on 20-09-2019 18:01
20-09-2019 18:02
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
keepit wrote:
IBDM,
Student debt. I think most of the debt is owed to the fed govt. The fed govt. can just forgive the debt. If student debt is owed to someone other than the fed the fed can just buy that debt and then forgive it.
Mortgage interest. Same as with student debt.
Rental payments. Rental payments would be halved because landlord mortgage interest would be eliminated.
Workers' hours. A large number of workers would like to go golfing and fishing, etc if they could afford it. Convincing the others to work half time would be an interesting problem.
Fed reserve and Treasury. The Fed and Treasury would have to buy a lot of debt.
The national debt would be largely eliminated by printing money to pay the treasuries owed to foreigners to help the the fed and treasury buy back debt.. The budget deficit would shrink because interest on the national debt would be largely eliminated, and the military expenditures would have to be reduced.
The plants are doing fine.


Are your medications prescribed by a doctor, or self-prescribed? I worked hard, made a few sacrifices, and paid my house off in 17 years. So, you're telling me that someone who just started on their 30 year mortgage, basically gets a free house? all the people who worked hard to get a degree, and a decent job, had to work a second job, to pay off their student loans, get to look back at all they gave up to honor their obligation. While some dead-beat hippie kid, paid little or nothing on his, gets a free ride? Tuition is high, because of those loans and grants anyway. Just like health care is expensive, because of insurance. People don't care where the money came from, as long as they get paid. But at the end of the day, somebody has to pay for it all.
20-09-2019 18:04
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1431)
keepit wrote:
Gas,
That's the thing, work half as much, produce half as much, and therefore produce half as much CO2.
I'm sure producing half as much CO2 doesn't bother you.


Yes, it does bother me. I LOVE my home grown sweet corn.

Do you realize that the people working are paying taxes on every hour they work, every good created and sold, every service provided?

You've just cut federal revenues in half too. Will you be printing the difference?


I think people screw me over because they don't want to see someone willing to put out the effort that they won't.~James~
20-09-2019 18:06
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Harvey,
I'm not sure how those details could be worked out to make the equitable yet but i agree, the should be worked out in a way to make things equitable. There are a lot of things that aren't quite equitable.

A very smart man once said to me, "Don't ask for things to be fair. If things were fair you would be in big trouble".
20-09-2019 18:07
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1431)
HarveyH55 wrote:
keepit wrote:
IBDM,
Student debt. I think most of the debt is owed to the fed govt. The fed govt. can just forgive the debt. If student debt is owed to someone other than the fed the fed can just buy that debt and then forgive it.
Mortgage interest. Same as with student debt.
Rental payments. Rental payments would be halved because landlord mortgage interest would be eliminated.
Workers' hours. A large number of workers would like to go golfing and fishing, etc if they could afford it. Convincing the others to work half time would be an interesting problem.
Fed reserve and Treasury. The Fed and Treasury would have to buy a lot of debt.
The national debt would be largely eliminated by printing money to pay the treasuries owed to foreigners to help the the fed and treasury buy back debt.. The budget deficit would shrink because interest on the national debt would be largely eliminated, and the military expenditures would have to be reduced.
The plants are doing fine.


Are your medications prescribed by a doctor, or self-prescribed? I worked hard, made a few sacrifices, and paid my house off in 17 years. So, you're telling me that someone who just started on their 30 year mortgage, basically gets a free house? all the people who worked hard to get a degree, and a decent job, had to work a second job, to pay off their student loans, get to look back at all they gave up to honor their obligation. While some dead-beat hippie kid, paid little or nothing on his, gets a free ride? Tuition is high, because of those loans and grants anyway. Just like health care is expensive, because of insurance. People don't care where the money came from, as long as they get paid. But at the end of the day, somebody has to pay for it all.


Dead right. Paid my 30 in 16 years. Hard work but we earned it.

I do a lot of work in an apartment complex near a college. Huge difference in the way things are kept in a mommy and daddy paid rent vs resident work paid rent.


I think people screw me over because they don't want to see someone willing to put out the effort that they won't.~James~
Edited on 20-09-2019 18:12
20-09-2019 18:07
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
There would have to be a lot of printing. Invest in printing press production companies.
20-09-2019 18:09
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Too many knee jerk reactions.
I just think this sort of stuff should be explored.
We might be in for big trouble anyway. Lots of smart thinkers think so.

Shake things up. Confuse the enemy, whoever that is.
Edited on 20-09-2019 18:10
20-09-2019 18:11
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
keepit wrote: Student debt. I think most of the debt is owed to the fed govt. The fed govt. can just forgive the debt.

It's more a matter of whether We the People want to simply forgive debt that is owed to us.

My vote is "no." Yours may differ.

keepit wrote: If student debt is owed to someone other than the fed the fad just buy that debt and then forgive it.

It's more a matter of whether We the People want to pay more in taxes to cover that loss in assets so We the People can just give them away.

My vote is "no." Yours may differ.

keepit wrote: Mortgage interest. Same as with student debt.

Why would any of We the People want to just start paying for other people's mortgages and education? Those people were perfectly willing to pay for it themselves as is evidenced by the loans they took out in good faith.

Imagine just letting them pay all that back as they promised!

keepit wrote: Rental payments. Rental payments would be halved because landlord mortgage interest would be eliminated.

The two are not related. Any landlord is going to charge in rent whatever s/he can get for it. As long as someone is willing to pay, say, $900.00 per month for a rental, the landlord will collect that amount. Regardless of any of the landlord's expenses decreasing, the rent remains the same. When the landlord finally pays off the mortgage entirely, the rent remains the same.

keepit wrote: Workers' hours. A large number of workers would like to go golfing and fishing, etc if they could afford it.

So they ask the boss for more hours, save up money for recreation and put in for personal/vacation time when they want to go ... just like everyone else.

keepit wrote: Fed reserve and Treasury. The Fed and Treasury would have to buy a lot of debt.

Incorrect. We the People would have to buy a lot of debt.

My vote is "no." Yours may differ.

keepit wrote: The national debt would be largely eliminated by printing money to pay the treasuries owed to foreigners to help the the fed and treasury buy back debt.

Read up on the economic ruin of Zimbabwe and Venezuela. That's what happens when you simply "print money." The money becomes worthless. The economy tanks. Everybody is broke. There are no more jobs. There is no education anymore.

Imagine people running around with backpacks full of these:



keepit wrote: The budget deficit would shrink because interest on the national debt would be largely eliminated, and the military expenditures would have to be reduced.

Can we just agree that economics is not your strong suit and leave it at that?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-09-2019 18:22
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Landlord rents are subject to market forces just like anything else. If one landlords mortgage interest goes away he can lower the rent to compete for tenants etc.

Economics is not YOUR strong suit IBDM.

King dollar is not the same as Venezuelan dollars or Zimbabwe dollars. That makes your analogies silly.
Edited on 20-09-2019 18:27
20-09-2019 18:28
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
If everything is 'free', why even bother to work at all? You take out a loan, but only have to pay it back, if you feel it. Paying off loans is hard work, most people wouldn't choose to do that, if they didn't have to. If I wanted to sell my house, which I own free and clear, are you telling me I can only get half for it as well?

I really don't get your spending less crap. But then again, I don't get all the socialist free crap either. In this country, you are free to work as hard as you need, to obtain what you want. We weren't founded on free-rides. No promises were ever given, that anyone would succeed at living their dreams of success, just that we are free to pursue our dreams.
20-09-2019 18:30
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Printing dollars by the fed and treasury is not the same as "we the people" paying the debt.
Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. It just changes who controls those dollars.
My wife used to freak out every time i refinanced something to reduce the interest expense. I don't think she ever truly realized that refinancing isn't the same as increasing debt
20-09-2019 18:32
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Harvey,
I'm just throwing out ideas to be explored. It isn't meant to crap on you.
20-09-2019 18:45
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
keepit wrote: Printing dollars by the fed and treasury is not the same as "we the people" paying the debt.

Yes it is. The Federal government is funded by We the People. The Federal government get its power and authority from We the People.

I take it that you were sneaking peeks at Bernie Sanders videos when you should have been cracking open your Macro- and Microeconomics and when you should have been glancing at your pocket Constitution.



I keep one of these handy just for those instances that CNN tells me that Trump is creating a Constitutional crisis ... just to check.

I have to ask, do you think Venezuela is a model we should be emulating?

keepit wrote: Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars.

I've got to put this in my signature block.

keepit wrote: My wife used to freak out every time i refinanced something to reduce the interest expense. I don't think she ever truly realized that refinancing isn't the same as increasing debt

Judging by your level of understanding of economics, I'm guessing you thought that the lower payments of albeit larger debt due to the stretching out of the life of the new loan meant that your debt was somehow being reduced.

What did you think happened to your debt when all the refinancing fees were rolled into it?

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-09-2019 18:53
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Guess believes you can borrow your way out of debt...
20-09-2019 18:54
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
IBDM,
You make so many false assumptions...

For example, suppose we print dollars to pay off treasuries. That doesn't increase the amount of dollars out there, at least if you count treasuries as dollars. What it would do is it would decrease the amount of interest expense.
Edited on 20-09-2019 18:58
20-09-2019 18:59
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1431)
Takeit,

Please do some research on Zimbabwe. It is a perfect example of what happens when you print too much money. You need a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread.
20-09-2019 19:00
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Harvey,
I didn't say that. Borrowing at a lower interest rate can decrease your interest expense.
20-09-2019 19:01
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Zimbabwe and Venezuela aren't the same as the usa. Neither is their currency. We can do things with dollars that V. and Z. can't do.
20-09-2019 19:04
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1431)
Here's a crazy concept. Don't spend more than we bring in.

Pay off debt and see how much more money is available!

At the time I paid off my mortgage, I was still paying between 900 and $1,000 a month in INTEREST!
20-09-2019 19:06
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1431)
keepit wrote:
Zimbabwe and Venezuela aren't the same as the usa. Neither is their currency. We can do things with dollars that V. and Z. can't do.


Like what??!!


I think people screw me over because they don't want to see someone willing to put out the effort that they won't.~James~
20-09-2019 19:09
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1431)
keepit wrote:
IBDM,
You make so many false assumptions...

For example, suppose we print dollars to pay off treasuries. That doesn't increase the amount of dollars out there, at least if you count treasuries as dollars. What it would do is it would decrease the amount of interest expense.


Producing more of ANYTHING always increases it's quantity.


I think people screw me over because they don't want to see someone willing to put out the effort that they won't.~James~
20-09-2019 19:15
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Gas,
For example, we can use dollars to buy things on the international market at good prices. Buying things with zimbzb or venz money doesn't work so well. We can borrow money from other countries because the dollar has a history of stability which V. and Z. don't.
These facts are a tremendous advantage.
That advantage could go away in time if the world starts using the yuan instead of the dollar.
20-09-2019 19:17
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Gas,
Dollars and treasuries are pretty much equivalent. If you print dollars to pay off treasuries you aren't increasing the number of total dollars if you consider dollars and treasuries equivalent.
20-09-2019 19:22
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Do you actually think i don't calculate into the equation the closing costs when i refinance?
Come on!!!
20-09-2019 19:26
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1431)
keepit wrote:
Gas,
For example, we can use dollars to buy things on the international market at good prices. Buying things with zimbzb or venz money doesn't work so well. We can borrow money from other countries because the dollar has a history of stability which V. and Z. don't.
These facts are a tremendous advantage.
That advantage could go away in time if the world starts using the yuan instead of the dollar.


Dollars will lose stability instantaneously if we roll the press in the way you're talking.


I think people screw me over because they don't want to see someone willing to put out the effort that they won't.~James~
20-09-2019 19:32
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
I'm not discounting what you say here.
Covert gradualism to some degree may be going on and we don't know it.
We could be in for trouble but i'm trying to be prepared.
Sometimes there is profit in confusion.
20-09-2019 22:03
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
keepit wrote:
Do you actually think i don't calculate into the equation the closing costs when i refinance?
Come on!!!

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Those closing costs increase your debt. Tell me that you are at least realizing this.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-09-2019 22:08
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
Do you have to ask?
20-09-2019 23:18
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
keepit wrote:
I hope this doesn't sound like a beatles song and this doesn't concern global warming deniers.
Spending halved and therefore GDP halved and therefore anthropogenic CO2 emissions halved. Imagine all your expenses being halved. The national debt eliminated. Interest on national debt eliminated. Your mortgage interest eliminated. Rental payments halved. Your fuel expenses halved. Food expenses halved. Student debt eliminated. Work week halved. Time spend golfing, fishing, and with family doubled. Plenty of jobs because no one could work more than half of what they do now.
The Fed and the Treasury could do this if they didn't have to listen to the politicians.
Anyone who isn't concerned with global warming and CO2 emissions needn't worry about CO2 being halved do they?

I need to get a life!


Why would anything be cut in half? What does my personal budget have to do with the national debt? (Hint: nothing)

The Fed and the Treasury ARE politicians!


The Parrot Killer
20-09-2019 23:28
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
keepit wrote:
IBDM,
Student debt. I think most of the debt is owed to the fed govt.

Much of it is, true.
keepit wrote:
The fed govt. can just forgive the debt.

No, they can't. Forgiving the debt means it's just transferring it to someone else, like the taxpayer.
keepit wrote:
If student debt is owed to someone other than the fed the fed can just buy that debt and then forgive it.

They don't have the money to do it.
keepit wrote:
Mortgage interest. Same as with student debt.

The Fed doesn't have the money to do it.
keepit wrote:
Rental payments. Rental payments would be halved because landlord mortgage interest would be eliminated.

The Fed doesn't have the money to do it.
keepit wrote:
Workers' hours. A large number of workers would like to go golfing and fishing, etc if they could afford it.

What you are suggesting is a debt crash. They won't be able to afford it.
keepit wrote:
Convincing the others to work half time would be an interesting problem.

Not a problem. YOU don't get to dictate how long people work.
keepit wrote:
Fed reserve and Treasury. The Fed and Treasury would have to buy a lot of debt.

They don't have the money.
keepit wrote:
The national debt would be largely eliminated by printing money to pay the treasuries owed to foreigners to help the the fed and treasury buy back debt..

Ah! Roll the presses, eh? That's called a cash crash. Money would become worthless. You can't solve a debt crash with a cash crash.
keepit wrote:
The budget deficit would shrink because interest on the national debt would be largely eliminated,

No, the dollar is essentially worthless. The economy stalls until people agree on a new form of money. It won't be the dollar issued by the federal government! Mostly likely gold and silver would return as money.
keepit wrote:
and the military expenditures would have to be reduced.

Yup. It's a perfect opportunity for foreign enemies to attack the United States! Is this what you really want??
keepit wrote:
The plants are doing fine.

Irrelevant.


The Parrot Killer
20-09-2019 23:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Too many dollars chasing too few goods.

Massive inflation a devalued dollar.


In such a situation, most likely the dollar will cease to be money.


The Parrot Killer
Page 1 of 5123>>>





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