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Gravity fed electrical generation system



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19-07-2022 06:39
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
James_ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Electrolysis IS desalination. Remember the salt left behind is a problem.


And yet the brine solution could be trucked to settling ponds (for evaporation) in the desert. Then it could be sold as sea salt which it is. Either that or for roads in winter.


Not enough people want to buy it.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
19-07-2022 07:17
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
James_ wrote:A link to research being done on using fuel cell technology to generate both power and drinking water. This is where lowering the cost of energy could allow for more research and development.

James__, there are two minor problems with this post of yours.

1. You are supposed to be pointing to research being done on converting gravity to energy, and ...

2. Research and development isn't being hampered by the cost of energy. The cost of energy does not prohibit additional research.

It would appear that both duncan and yourself are trying to pretend that dehammer's perpetual motion machine is actually just a demonstration of the usefulness of hydrogen fuel. You both seem to believe that perpetual motion machines are actually valid systems that will work as imagined, even when the system "designer" is scientifically illiterate.

Meanwhile your Bessler wheel awaits its first full 360-degree rotation.

.
19-07-2022 08:20
James_
★★★★☆
(1099)
IBdaMann wrote:

Meanwhile your Bessler wheel awaits its first full 360-degree rotation.

.



That's about 2 weeks away. I want to get all of the details right on the final assembly. At the same time I want it to look nice because I did not plan to fail. And a successful build will probably be wanted by someone in Saxony, Germany since it is a part of their history.
What you fail to understand is that conservation of momentum is an accepted law of physics. The scientific argument why it can't work is actually quite absurd. It's because a scientist hasn't figured out how to do it yet.
It will be interesting when I show my own design. It will be something that could've been realized years ago and in a way might mimic something in our own solar system.
Besides if all goes well and I'm able to put on a happy face for the public then I'll probably move to Australia. I mean I've been to other countries and I was treated better, ie., no one caused me problems because they didn't have something better to do.
19-07-2022 12:24
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
Hey James.I will clear out the spare room
19-07-2022 13:05
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
Into the Night wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
An electrolyzer is a system that uses electricity to break water into hydrogen and oxygen in a process called electrolysis.Thats what we call it here


Okay. You have defined this word. Remember that YOU defined it.


The British Oxygen Company defined it. Their plant in Kewdale do it. I took it of their website.Did they write it wrong?


duncan61
19-07-2022 13:16
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
Into the Night wrote:
James_ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Unfortunately, as I am a disabled vet, I can not build this myself.



I'm a disabled Vet. I don't use that as an excuse not to learn or to work.

Lie.
James_ wrote:
You see, you have now created a problem. You see my good friend AB Hammer has it bad. He can barely walk and doesn't have a car to drive. So if you think you have problems just know that his are worse. And he told me that I should use him as an example as someone who will never ask for help because that's not what real men do.

You are BOTH asking for help, liar.
James_ wrote:
And yet you wouldn't want credit for thinking of using hydrogen fuel cell technology for desalination? Unless you do the work that's the only thing I can do for you and mention your thread. After all I don't know you so why should I take your word for it? And since I don't know you, I have my own life to live with people who I know who they are and not some random stranger on the internet.

Electrolysis IS desalination. Remember the salt left behind is a problem.


The desalination plants I have worked on function by pumping high pressure salt water through a membrane.On the water purification plants I worked on at Aquasol we installed bleeds with a needle valve going to a flow meter so the amount of waste could be controlled.Where I live the evaporative air conditioner is a quality brand and on initial startup It dumps the H2O contents of the device and does a prewet.Most have an electric probe and when it is salty enough for a current to pass they will dump the system.Earlier ones had a bleed you could set manually so fresh water is constantly topping the system up.The salt left behind is a problem but manageable


duncan61
19-07-2022 13:26
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
Into the Night wrote:
James_ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Electrolysis IS desalination. Remember the salt left behind is a problem.


And yet the brine solution could be trucked to settling ponds (for evaporation) in the desert. Then it could be sold as sea salt which it is. Either that or for roads in winter.


Not enough people want to buy it.


DAMPIER Salt is one of the world's largest exporters of seaborne salt and one of Rio Tinto's oldest businesses, having grown pure salt for more than 50 years.

The company's high-quality, natural and solar salt is valued by large industrial customers across Asia, with supply being sent to chlor-alkali plants in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China and Southeast Asia.

The three operations are near its primary customers in Asia, reducing shipping costs and time.

Dampier Salt owns and manages the deep-water ports at Dampier and Lake MacLeod, and from Port Hedland where it has guaranteed berth access from the Pilbara Ports Authority.

The ports can accommodate a range of vessel sizes, with the shipping process safely managed by Rio Tinto Marine.

The hot, dry climate and low rainfall of the Pilbara and Gascoyne regions allow the company to harness the renewable power of the sun and wind for 99pc of its energy needs.

As the world's largest exporter of solar salt, Dampier Salt is well-positioned to respond quickly to increased demand from each of its operations.

In 2019, Dampier Salt production was 8mt. The company has the capability to increase salt production by 3mtpa, should market demand increase.

Although there is latent capacity, Dampier Salt general manager operations Brendon Brodie-Hall said he does not see a need to expand production capacity in the next five years.

"Should future demand justify this, brownfield capacity expansions upwards of 3mt could be achieved in a short time frame and at a lower cost than greenfield projects currently being studied in WA," he said.

The company also has no plans to expand its port operations as they are currently well-equipped to fulfill shipping requirements and demand.

The Dampier and Port Hedland operations are located right next to the pristine Indian Ocean, providing the seawater crucial to growing our pure, natural salt.

The shallow evaporation flats have the potential to produce salt virtually infinitely.

From the sky, the Dampier and Port Hedland operations look like a giant keyboard, made up of concentration ponds.

Up to 1mt of seawater is pumped into these ponds each day.

The pumps are very large and each one can pump 10,000m3 per hour, equivalent to filling four Olympic sized swimming pools an hour.

At the Lake MacLeod operation, seawater flows naturally underground through the porous limestone located at the north end of the naturally occurring lake, kick-starting the evaporation process.

The salt produced is used by the chemical industry to make products essential for modern life like glass, paper, plastics, textiles and even soaps and detergents.

Some of the salt is also used by downstream customers to process foods and de-ice roads.

Other markets for the final product – clean, white, coarse salt crystals – is used to produce caustic soda, which is in turn used for the refinement of bauxite in the alumina production process.

This is then sent to smelters for processing into aluminium.

So no one wants this stuff.You sure are having a bad hair day.When you are super negative it is only a matter of time till the world catches you out.Yes I am gloating heartlessly.Can I send you some coal with a letter of where it came from


duncan61
19-07-2022 13:51
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
IBdaMann wrote:
[quote]James_ wrote:A link to research being done on using fuel cell technology to generate both power and drinking water. This is where lowering the cost of energy could allow for more research and development.


IBDm wrote
James__, there are two minor problems with this post of yours.
1. You are supposed to be pointing to research being done on converting gravity to energy, and ...
2. Research and development isn't being hampered by the cost of energy. The cost of energy does not prohibit additional research.
It would appear that both duncan and yourself are trying to pretend that dehammer's perpetual motion machine is actually just a demonstration of the usefulness of hydrogen fuel. You both seem to believe that perpetual motion machines are actually valid systems that will work as imagined, even when the system "designer" is scientifically illiterate.
Meanwhile your Bessler wheel awaits its first full 360-degree rotation.
Duncan wrote
It sounds like Dehammer is trying to reinvent hydro electric in a vertical pipe.Then use a portion of the electricity to create Hydrogen gas to use in a fuel cell to pump the water back up to the top.It would be cool to see a miniature working model and work out the losses.The elephant in the room is the 5000 psi pump needed to liquify Hydrogen to supply the fuel cell.As a child I loved the miniature steam tractors and stuff that you put a bit of metho or alcohol in a tray and light it up then of they go

I doubt any human will develop anything more efficient than natural gas turbines for generating electricity and regardless of all the stupidity going on about climate and warming natural gas creates sweet F all of anything for what you get in return.Duncan the insane moron


duncan61
Edited on 19-07-2022 14:02
19-07-2022 14:38
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
duncan61 wrote:The elephant in the room is the 5000 psi pump needed to liquify Hydrogen to supply the fuel cell.

I'm not sure I follow you. Part of dehammer's fantasy is to let the hydrogen gas bubble up to the top of a pipe which, if it were full of a liquid (e.g. water) would require no pump to rise. I thought that was the "gravity generated" aspect of it.
19-07-2022 14:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
duncan61 wrote:So no one wants this stuff.You sure are having a bad hair day.

Why do I get the strange feeling that Into the Night is talking about a different salt?

duncan61 wrote:When you are super negative it is only a matter of time till the world catches you out.Yes I am gloating heartlessly.

duncan, do you envision yourself as "the world"?
19-07-2022 15:51
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
IBDm.Would you like some coal.If you check it out you will see it is old wood.Not charcoal
19-07-2022 16:39
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
duncan61 wrote:IBDm.Would you like some coal.

Are you offering because you think it's a fossil?

duncan61 wrote:If you check it out you will see it is old wood.Not charcoal

So talk to me about petroleum. I don't think hydrocarbons are old wood.

By the way, coal is carbon, possibly from wood long ago and possibly not. Nobody knows because whatever the source of the carbon, all that remains is the carbon, which is abundant throughout the earth's crust. Carbon doesn't carry HTML tags detailing where it has been.

Do you believe that diamonds are old wood?

On a side note, I have made charcoal from old, dry wood. As you point out, coal is not charcoal, but I can see where confused individuals might conflate coal with old wood. At least you're not one of them, right?

.
19-07-2022 17:00
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
IBdaMann wrote:
[quote]duncan61 wrote:The elephant in the room is the 5000 psi pump needed to liquify Hydrogen to supply the fuel cell.

I'm not sure I follow you. Part of dehammer's fantasy is to let the hydrogen gas bubble up to the top of a pipe which, if it were full of a liquid (e.g. water) would require no pump to rise. I thought that was the "gravity generated" aspect of it.

What does the hydrogen do then?I have made hydrogen gas myself.I will bore you with the details.It is a common practice on the west coast to go north balloon fishing.Off the cliffs of Steep point and Quobba large pelagic fish swim close to shore and May -August Easterlies are very common as the water is warmer than the desert in the morning and the rising air draws the air off the land.Most tackle shops stock 3 foot balloons for this purpose and you hire a party gas cylinder and inflator which I think is helium.The deal is to attach 20 foot of light line to the inflated balloon and run a swivel to the main line so it can slide.You make up a big bait with a bunch of hooks in it and 6-7 foot of wire trace.Big local garfish or fresh Tailor are good.You call them bluefish.You let the balloon go out 75-100 yards and then chuck the bait in and it will waggle its way out till it catches up to the balloon then the bait dances around on the surface looking very edible.If it is sinking you pull it in closer till the weight works out or let it out further if it is swinging in the air too much.The Mackerel will hit it regardless.Anglers have landed marlin and sailfish of the shore doing this.I came home from doing this once and tried to replicate this technique by filling a 2 litre ice cream container with Hydrochloric acid and dropping a zinc block in it.I could fill a garbage bag fairly easy but its lift capacity was poor.If you hire the party gas cylinder at the end of the month and return it in the following month you get hit with 2 months hire around $500 and some times you can only go when everyone is ready so it can suck a bit.Drones have replaced this way of fishing but watching that balloon in a deck chair drinking beer is worth it.I have seen strikes so savage the balloon breaks off


duncan61
19-07-2022 19:03
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
duncan61 wrote:What does the hydrogen do then?

Apparently, the hydrogen is used to fill the hydrogen fuel cell ... which powers the turbines to perform the electrolysis that makes more hydrogen for the fuel cell ... in perpetuity ... while also generating lots of spare energy that can be used to save the planet.


This is a bona fide perpetual motion machine. We'll be able to throw out the book on thermodynamics. Physics will be turned on its head. And to think that this revolutionary system was conceptualized by a truly humble and scientifically illiterate philanthropist crusading to save humanity on Climate-Debate.

.
19-07-2022 19:50
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
duncan61 wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James_ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Unfortunately, as I am a disabled vet, I can not build this myself.



I'm a disabled Vet. I don't use that as an excuse not to learn or to work.

Lie.
James_ wrote:
You see, you have now created a problem. You see my good friend AB Hammer has it bad. He can barely walk and doesn't have a car to drive. So if you think you have problems just know that his are worse. And he told me that I should use him as an example as someone who will never ask for help because that's not what real men do.

You are BOTH asking for help, liar.
James_ wrote:
And yet you wouldn't want credit for thinking of using hydrogen fuel cell technology for desalination? Unless you do the work that's the only thing I can do for you and mention your thread. After all I don't know you so why should I take your word for it? And since I don't know you, I have my own life to live with people who I know who they are and not some random stranger on the internet.

Electrolysis IS desalination. Remember the salt left behind is a problem.


The desalination plants I have worked on function by pumping high pressure salt water through a membrane.On the water purification plants I worked on at Aquasol we installed bleeds with a needle valve going to a flow meter so the amount of waste could be controlled.Where I live the evaporative air conditioner is a quality brand and on initial startup It dumps the H2O contents of the device and does a prewet.Most have an electric probe and when it is salty enough for a current to pass they will dump the system.Earlier ones had a bleed you could set manually so fresh water is constantly topping the system up.The salt left behind is a problem but manageable

What do you mean by 'manageable'?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
19-07-2022 19:55
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
duncan61 wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James_ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Electrolysis IS desalination. Remember the salt left behind is a problem.


And yet the brine solution could be trucked to settling ponds (for evaporation) in the desert. Then it could be sold as sea salt which it is. Either that or for roads in winter.


Not enough people want to buy it.


DAMPIER Salt is one of the world's largest exporters of seaborne salt and one of Rio Tinto's oldest businesses, having grown pure salt for more than 50 years.

The company's high-quality, natural and solar salt is valued by large industrial customers across Asia, with supply being sent to chlor-alkali plants in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China and Southeast Asia.

The three operations are near its primary customers in Asia, reducing shipping costs and time.

Dampier Salt owns and manages the deep-water ports at Dampier and Lake MacLeod, and from Port Hedland where it has guaranteed berth access from the Pilbara Ports Authority.

The ports can accommodate a range of vessel sizes, with the shipping process safely managed by Rio Tinto Marine.

The hot, dry climate and low rainfall of the Pilbara and Gascoyne regions allow the company to harness the renewable power of the sun and wind for 99pc of its energy needs.

As the world's largest exporter of solar salt, Dampier Salt is well-positioned to respond quickly to increased demand from each of its operations.

In 2019, Dampier Salt production was 8mt. The company has the capability to increase salt production by 3mtpa, should market demand increase.

Although there is latent capacity, Dampier Salt general manager operations Brendon Brodie-Hall said he does not see a need to expand production capacity in the next five years.

"Should future demand justify this, brownfield capacity expansions upwards of 3mt could be achieved in a short time frame and at a lower cost than greenfield projects currently being studied in WA," he said.

The company also has no plans to expand its port operations as they are currently well-equipped to fulfill shipping requirements and demand.

The Dampier and Port Hedland operations are located right next to the pristine Indian Ocean, providing the seawater crucial to growing our pure, natural salt.

The shallow evaporation flats have the potential to produce salt virtually infinitely.

From the sky, the Dampier and Port Hedland operations look like a giant keyboard, made up of concentration ponds.

Up to 1mt of seawater is pumped into these ponds each day.

The pumps are very large and each one can pump 10,000m3 per hour, equivalent to filling four Olympic sized swimming pools an hour.

At the Lake MacLeod operation, seawater flows naturally underground through the porous limestone located at the north end of the naturally occurring lake, kick-starting the evaporation process.

The salt produced is used by the chemical industry to make products essential for modern life like glass, paper, plastics, textiles and even soaps and detergents.

Some of the salt is also used by downstream customers to process foods and de-ice roads.

Other markets for the final product – clean, white, coarse salt crystals – is used to produce caustic soda, which is in turn used for the refinement of bauxite in the alumina production process.

This is then sent to smelters for processing into aluminium.

So no one wants this stuff.You sure are having a bad hair day.When you are super negative it is only a matter of time till the world catches you out.Yes I am gloating heartlessly.Can I send you some coal with a letter of where it came from

Using salt to make caustic soda...so MORE power is required for that!


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
19-07-2022 19:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
IBdaMann wrote:
duncan61 wrote:So no one wants this stuff.You sure are having a bad hair day.

Why do I get the strange feeling that Into the Night is talking about a different salt?

duncan61 wrote:When you are super negative it is only a matter of time till the world catches you out.Yes I am gloating heartlessly.

duncan, do you envision yourself as "the world"?

Yes. I am talking about a different salt...actually, a combination of salts, typically found in seawater.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
19-07-2022 20:07
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
IBdaMann wrote:
duncan61 wrote:The elephant in the room is the 5000 psi pump needed to liquify Hydrogen to supply the fuel cell.

I'm not sure I follow you. Part of dehammer's fantasy is to let the hydrogen gas bubble up to the top of a pipe which, if it were full of a liquid (e.g. water) would require no pump to rise. I thought that was the "gravity generated" aspect of it.


Water at the bottom of a 10000 ft pipe will have a pressure of 4322psi. You have to inject hydrogen gas somehow into that pressure.

That requires a pump.

One method is to put the electrolysis electrode directly in that pressure, but you will require more power than usual to cause electrolysis. In that arrangement, electrolysis is the pump.

Of course, all of this is ignored by dehammer, and is essentially academic anyway. Even at normal current, and light pressure in the electrolysis cell, he will use more electricity in electrolysis than he will get from his generators and fuel cell. He simply can't generate water fast enough and doesn't have sufficient hydrogen to do generate enough water.

Losses from conversion and friction in the plumbing, which of course is totally overlooked by dehammer.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
19-07-2022 20:07
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
duncan61 wrote:
IBDm.Would you like some coal.If you check it out you will see it is old wood.Not charcoal

It is not old wood nor charcoal.

It is carbon.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
19-07-2022 20:11
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
Into the Night wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James_ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Unfortunately, as I am a disabled vet, I can not build this myself.



I'm a disabled Vet. I don't use that as an excuse not to learn or to work.

Lie.
James_ wrote:
You see, you have now created a problem. You see my good friend AB Hammer has it bad. He can barely walk and doesn't have a car to drive. So if you think you have problems just know that his are worse. And he told me that I should use him as an example as someone who will never ask for help because that's not what real men do.

You are BOTH asking for help, liar.
James_ wrote:
And yet you wouldn't want credit for thinking of using hydrogen fuel cell technology for desalination? Unless you do the work that's the only thing I can do for you and mention your thread. After all I don't know you so why should I take your word for it? And since I don't know you, I have my own life to live with people who I know who they are and not some random stranger on the internet.

Electrolysis IS desalination. Remember the salt left behind is a problem.


The desalination plants I have worked on function by pumping high pressure salt water through a membrane.On the water purification plants I worked on at Aquasol we installed bleeds with a needle valve going to a flow meter so the amount of waste could be controlled.Where I live the evaporative air conditioner is a quality brand and on initial startup It dumps the H2O contents of the device and does a prewet.Most have an electric probe and when it is salty enough for a current to pass they will dump the system.Earlier ones had a bleed you could set manually so fresh water is constantly topping the system up.The salt left behind is a problem but manageable

What do you mean by 'manageable'?


Having a bleed and replacing the water regular stops the salt building up.The water where I live is very good but if it keeps evaporating the impurities will build up.New systems do a regular dump the lot cycle.Early summer I will get on the roof and wash the panels


duncan61
19-07-2022 20:29
James_
★★★★☆
(1099)
duncan61 wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
[quote]James_ wrote:A link to research being done on using fuel cell technology to generate both power and drinking water. This is where lowering the cost of energy could allow for more research and development.


IBDm wrote
James__, there are two minor problems with this post of yours.
1. You are supposed to be pointing to research being done on converting gravity to energy, and ...
2. Research and development isn't being hampered by the cost of energy. The cost of energy does not prohibit additional research.
It would appear that both duncan and yourself are trying to pretend that dehammer's perpetual motion machine is actually just a demonstration of the usefulness of hydrogen fuel. You both seem to believe that perpetual motion machines are actually valid systems that will work as imagined, even when the system "designer" is scientifically illiterate.
Meanwhile your Bessler wheel awaits its first full 360-degree rotation.
Duncan wrote
It sounds like Dehammer is trying to reinvent hydro electric in a vertical pipe.Then use a portion of the electricity to create Hydrogen gas to use in a fuel cell to pump the water back up to the top.It would be cool to see a miniature working model and work out the losses.The elephant in the room is the 5000 psi pump needed to liquify Hydrogen to supply the fuel cell.As a child I loved the miniature steam tractors and stuff that you put a bit of metho or alcohol in a tray and light it up then of they go

I doubt any human will develop anything more efficient than natural gas turbines for generating electricity and regardless of all the stupidity going on about climate and warming natural gas creates sweet F all of anything for what you get in return.Duncan the insane moron



If my historical project works then this being something that Europe is concerned about might have engineers considering what power it could generate. And with science and math a mathematical model could be created as a rough idea of what it'd take to generate how much energy.
If my build does work then I'd know where torque is generated and then moment of inertia for the wheel would determine how quickly and with how much force it could rotate. Since it would be gravity powered then divide by 2. And then what is the cost per kWh?
As you said, gas is an excellent source of energy. Some sources say the U.S. has a 100 year supply of natural gas. Still I like doing things and you have a life.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-whats-at-stake-if-russia-doesnt-get-a-key-european-gas-pipeline-back-up-and-running-this-week-11658238822?siteid=yhoof2

At the same time, the average home uses about 3 kWh of energy per day. And people who live off grid, etc. might like the idea of gravity power. What I like to mention is that if my build works then it would merely be conserving energy just as a windmill or a hydroelectric generator does, it conserves momentum.
This is where momentum = mv while kinetic energy is 1/2mv^2. Scientists say that gravity does not have energy while astronomers (they're not scientists) say that 95% of the mass of the universe is found in dark matter/energy which can't be seen but acts on matter at the gravitational level.
And now people can tell that I really don't have a life if I know this.
Edited on 19-07-2022 20:50
19-07-2022 20:34
James_
★★★★☆
(1099)
IBdaMann wrote:
duncan61 wrote:What does the hydrogen do then?

Apparently, the hydrogen is used to fill the hydrogen fuel cell ... which powers the turbines to perform the electrolysis that makes more hydrogen for the fuel cell ... in perpetuity ... while also generating lots of spare energy that can be used to save the planet.


This is a bona fide perpetual motion machine. We'll be able to throw out the book on thermodynamics. Physics will be turned on its head. And to think that this revolutionary system was conceptualized by a truly humble and scientifically illiterate philanthropist crusading to save humanity on Climate-Debate.

.



I tried getting him to understand the limitations of what he was suggesting. You know, for him to understand what is involved with such processes. An example is if you have a pipe filled with hydrogen gas, would it become another Hindenburg disaster?
And to limit that possibility how diluted would the gas in the pipe need to be? And then when a membrane has a limited surface area, how does the flow of gasses and their saturation affect the amount of reactions that generates water?
This is where if he would've put more time into research his idea then it'd be easier to understand how viable of a concept it is. But it's up to him to learn about what he's promoting. Then he can explain it so people would be able to understand why he likes his idea.
19-07-2022 22:52
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
James_ wrote:So if you think you have problems just know that his are worse.
I had a stroke and can barely walk any distance. I can not climb mountains which would be necessary for this. Just because some people are able does not mean all are.

not what real men do.
Real men know their on limit.

And yet you wouldn't want credit for thinking of using hydrogen fuel cell technology for desalination?
This is not about desalination. It can be used to get clean water but it is about producing electricity.

Unless you do the work
I will be honest with you. I know I can not do this, but I hoped I could get someone with the knowledge I do not have to try to model it, and then they could build it. I would not even be worried that I would not be paid for it.

Things like that have happened many times in history. Take Velcro. It was first suggested in a science fiction book and the guy could not make it. Years later someone else read it and thought that would be a good idea, and figured out how to make it. Now THAT person makes the money. IF I could do this, I think I could be a billionaire, but I can not. So, I put it out thinking someone else might see it and think it was a good idea.

Instead, I had a lot of people telling me that despite it working on a huge scale in nature, it could not work in man made miniature because "they said so".

I understand you can not build it, and a lot of that is because you do not understand what it is all about.

Let me give you an idea of how it could possibly be used. In northern Africa, there is the Mediterranean sea on one side of a huge mountain range. On the other side is the Sahara desert. In between there is a range that can rise up to 27000 feet. There is a lot of people that live on the sea side of the mountain and they use (or could use) a lot of electricity.

IF someone, a billionaire or something, or a company saw this and saw the model would work, they could build a pipe (or two if they wanted to carry oxygen) from the seaward side up to the peak. Then after running it through a hydrogen fuel cell, they would dump it in to the first of 100 "dams" (covered pool, pipe, turbine and generator) systems. This would drop the water 25000 feet to the desert. The water could be dumped initially into a cistern, then used to irrigate hundreds of square miles of farmland. The plants transpiration (water loss) on the farmland, plus any exposed water would vaporize and become clouds over the desert. Since the normal wind flow of the desert is basically circular, the water would be carried all around the desert and would fall back during the night as rain.

OF course the moisture would not remain in the desert forever and would eventually be lost, but it would being a large portion of the desert back to life.

At the same time, it would power much of the electric needs of the countries on the northern part of the continent.
19-07-2022 23:29
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
James_ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
duncan61 wrote:What does the hydrogen do then?

Apparently, the hydrogen is used to fill the hydrogen fuel cell ... which powers the turbines to perform the electrolysis that makes more hydrogen for the fuel cell ... in perpetuity ... while also generating lots of spare energy that can be used to save the planet.


This is a bona fide perpetual motion machine. We'll be able to throw out the book on thermodynamics. Physics will be turned on its head. And to think that this revolutionary system was conceptualized by a truly humble and scientifically illiterate philanthropist crusading to save humanity on Climate-Debate.

.



I tried getting him to understand the limitations of what he was suggesting. You know, for him to understand what is involved with such processes. An example is if you have a pipe filled with hydrogen gas, would it become another Hindenburg disaster?
And to limit that possibility how diluted would the gas in the pipe need to be? And then when a membrane has a limited surface area, how does the flow of gasses and their saturation affect the amount of reactions that generates water?
This is where if he would've put more time into research his idea then it'd be easier to understand how viable of a concept it is. But it's up to him to learn about what he's promoting. Then he can explain it so people would be able to understand why he likes his idea.
No, what you tried to get me to understand was the limit of YOUR understanding.

It is not meant to for desalinating water. It is meant to make electricity by raising the gas up a pipe.

IF you have a pipe 27000 feet high and one foot wide with a vacuum, and on the bottom of the pipe, you started pumping hydrogen in, would it remain on the bottom like water, or would it be like air and rise up though the pipe?

Obviously anyone with any slight knowledge of science would tell you that the gas would fill the vacuum. IF you kept pumping in hydrogen, eventually the gas would fill the pipe. If you continued to do so, the gas pressure would continue to rise.

Imagine if you would a pipe with a large "ping pong ball". The ball weights just slightly more than air BUT it completely fills the pipe's cross section.

The bottom of the pipe is connected to a sea, such as the Mediterranean. The top of the pipe has a vacuum pump. Since the pipe was put in with it opened to the air, the pressure of the air at the top of the pipe is the same as the pressure outside the pipe at 27000 feet.

Simultaneously. you start to add hydrogen at the bottom of the pipe and vacuum the air at the top. Since the ball completely blocks air from moving from below to above, as you put more hydrogen below and remove it from above, the ball rises. You would need more hydrogen than the air you pump out to move the ball, but not a large percentage. Eventually, the ball would rise all the way to the top. At that point the air in the pipe would (thoracically) be pretty close to 100%. The pressure on the water at the bottom would be the same as air outside the pipe. IF you then connected the hydrogen to a fuel cell, and kept adding the same amount of hydrogen as the pump too out at the top, the pipe would remain the same pressure. You would not need to have a pump push the hydrogen up the pipe, since the increased pressure of added hydrogen at the bottom and decreased pressure at the top from released hydrogen would cause the gas to continually move up.

To be honest, I would not build it as a single build. If I were building it, I would determine what the lowest level that you could produce more electricity from the dam's below than I needed and start with that level. The first level would then be bringing in a small amount of money as I raised it up 250 feet to the next level. Each level I went up, would increase the income, paying for more of the system as you went up the mountain.
19-07-2022 23:32
James_
★★★★☆
(1099)
@dehammer, at the end of the day the cost per kWh is the only thing that matters. It's about making money. And as I've mentioned, you need to understand the science behind your idea. That
is on you. You'll need to show where limitations prevent that from happening today.
It's not about looking at why it will fail but what prevents it from working. When you remove or over come the obstacles https://www.instagram.com/reel/CaSOISaKESM/?utm_medium=copy_link&fbclid=IwAR3Vmd0ElmE-M3DzxhxJJ9noMoDRHyfVlS_eDsY9JtvHFFn6ggSSwNq5Q7o
20-07-2022 00:00
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
Into the Night wrote:
Water at the bottom of a 10000 ft pipe will have a pressure of 4322psi. You have to inject hydrogen gas somehow into that pressure.
The entire purpose of this was that you have something, most likely a pump at the top reducing the pressure at the top taking pressure off the bottom. The truth is, the air in the pipe will be the same pressure on the outside of the pipe. Air pressure at sea level is 32 psi, and that will be what is in the pipe. A pipe of 144 square inch would have a total pressure of 4608 pounds. Is that what you are referring too?

That requires a pump.


One method is to put the electrolysis electrode directly in that pressure, but you will require more power than usual to cause electrolysis. In that arrangement, electrolysis is the pump.
It would be the same as having the electrolysis device directly open to the air. The only way it would be different is if you were pulling the gas out of the device with a pump.

Of course, all of this is ignored by dehammer,
No, I am not ignoring it. I understand and I can see you are trying to pretend that it is something unusual high pressure, when it is not. They do not measure air pressure by the square foot, but by the square inch. Since the bottom of this would likely be the ocean or sea, that is where the pressure would be the most. That is 32 pounds per square inch.

Even at normal current, and light pressure in the electrolysis cell, he will use more electricity in electrolysis than he will get from his generators and fuel cell.
The amount of energy you need to turn one liter of water to hydrogen is the same no matter how much water you change. I gave you the math before and YOU ignored it. Like wise, the amount of material you need to electrolyze is the same per liter so it is only necessary to multiply the amount for the amount of water you need.

Again, I gave you the math and you said it did not matter, it could not be done.


He simply can't generate water fast enough and doesn't have sufficient hydrogen to do generate enough water.
Why? I saw a video on how to electrolyze water using what was basically 2 square inches of steel wool. It could do one liter of water per hour. So if I wanted to get 3000 liters per second, that would need 15000 cubic feet of steel wool. IF I were to build this in pipes where the bottom half was water and the top half was gas, and each pipe had two square feet of cross section, (pipe connected so the gasses would sperate) and each pipe was 100 feet long, I would need 150 pipes to generate the needed gas.

IF the horizontal pipes were in stacks of 5, and were two wide (one oxygen and one hydrogen) the size of the plant needed would be 30 feet by 100.

Losses from conversion and friction in the plumbing, which of course is totally overlooked by dehammer.
The reason for the cut off at 250 feet is due to the loss to friction of the pipe. Gas has a natural tendency to rise to fill a space. The loss of the gas to friction would be minor at best. Due to its density and such the loss of friction in water pipe would be a lot greater. Therefore I limited it to only 250 to 300 feet instead of the entire 10000 feet.
20-07-2022 00:10
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
IBdaMann wrote:
duncan61 wrote:What does the hydrogen do then?

Apparently, the hydrogen is used to fill the hydrogen fuel cell ... which powers the turbines to perform the electrolysis that makes more hydrogen for the fuel cell ... in perpetuity ... while also generating lots of spare energy that can be used to save the planet.


This is a bona fide perpetual motion machine. We'll be able to throw out the book on thermodynamics. Physics will be turned on its head. And to think that this revolutionary system was conceptualized by a truly humble and scientifically illiterate philanthropist crusading to save humanity on Climate-Debate.

.
Once again, you proved you are clueless.

No, it does not work that way. It is not the water coming out of the fuel cells that turn the turbine. It is the weight of the water pushing water through a nozzle that does that. Gravity increases the weight of an object depending on how much of it is above the bottom.

A one square inch of water 2.31 feet tall weights 1 lb. At 250 feet, that is 108 lbs per square inch. IF you have a one inch pipe at the bottom pushing water at a turbine, you will have 108 pounds of force hitting that turbine.

IF you have an opening pushing 3000 liters per second at a that turbine, the water will hit it at 108 pounds. THIS is what generates electricity.

Again, anyone researching dams would be laughing at your stupidity.
20-07-2022 00:18
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
IBdaMann wrote:
duncan61 wrote:The elephant in the room is the 5000 psi pump needed to liquify Hydrogen to supply the fuel cell.

I'm not sure I follow you. Part of dehammer's fantasy is to let the hydrogen gas bubble up to the top of a pipe which, if it were full of a liquid (e.g. water) would require no pump to rise. I thought that was the "gravity generated" aspect of it.
No, it would not be required to liquify it. The use of liquified hydrogen is merely to store the gas, which is then warmed and used as a gas, not a liquid. Most of the use is in cars, which require a lot of fuel stored in a small areas, meaning it has to be liquified. A fuel cell has to be heated before it can be used and liquid hydrogen would destroy that.

No, the pipe would not be filled with water. I was using that as an example of what would happen if you had water in one pipe and gas in another and you connected them together.
20-07-2022 00:21
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
duncan61 wrote:You both seem to believe that perpetual motion machines are actually valid systems
Once again, you prove you have no idea what the concept is. A perpetual motion has no input or output. This has both. Gravity brings in energy (in nature sunlight on water, and rainfall) and puts out electricity (look at dams). This is just a miniaturization of natures plan.
20-07-2022 00:57
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
James_ wrote:you need to understand the science behind your idea.
I do understand it as complete as it is possible. What people do not seem to grasp is that this is just a miniaturization of nature.

Nature adds energy from the sun to start it. I add electricity. Both results in hydrogen becoming a gas. In nature, it becomes steam. In mine it, it become the gases hydrogen and oxygen. Both go up separate pipes. The pressure at the bottom of the pipe would be the same as air pressure, 32 psi. The pressure of the gas at the top is the same as air pressure at that altitude. People trying to pretend that this is impossible by throwing out number as if they are something that they know about when they make it plain they do not understand the concept.
20-07-2022 02:51
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
dehammer wrote:No, it does not work that way.

That's because it simply doesn't work.

dehammer wrote:It is not the water coming out of the fuel cells that turn the turbine.

I didn't say it was.

dehammer wrote:IF you have an opening pushing 3000 liters per second at a that turbine, the water will hit it at 108 pounds. THIS is what generates electricity.

OK. The turbine will generate less electricity than is necessary to jet the water at that pressure.

Again, anyone who took high school physics would be laughing at your stupidity.
20-07-2022 03:03
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
IBdaMann wrote:
That's because it simply doesn't work.
Just because you do not have the brain to understand it does not mean it does not work.

dehammer wrote:
I didn't say it was.
Yea, you did. You ignore the fact that the system works with dams and claim that it can not work anywhere.

dehammer wrote:
OK. The turbine will generate less electricity than is necessary to jet the water at that pressure.
Nothing is powering a jet. Do you see a jet at a dam? No, because pressure from the weight above it do the job just fine.

Again, anyone who took high school physics would be laughing at your stupidity.
Sorry, no, they are laughing at you, you just can not see it. Even a junior high student could tell you if it works at a dam it works at a dam. It does not matter if the dam has a huge lake or a small pipe, it is the size of the headwater and the weight of the water above the turbine that matters. THAT is where it becomes gravity powered.
Edited on 20-07-2022 03:05
20-07-2022 03:48
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
dehammer wrote:Just because you do not have the brain to understand it does not mean it does not work.

Violating thermodynamics means that it cannot work.

dehammer wrote: You ignore the fact that the system works with dams and claim that it can not work anywhere.

Dams do not load their own water.

dehammer wrote:Do you see a jet at a dam? No, because pressure from the weight above it do the job just fine.

The dam does not load the water. Evaporation and precipitation perform the loading. Your contraption generates the water pressure from the energy that it generates from the water pressure that it creates from the energy that it generates from the water pressure that it creates from the energy that it generates from the water pressure that it creates from the energy that it generates from the water pressure that it creates ...

The only smart thing you have done in all this is to recognize that nobody will rush to be associated with something that cannot work because it violates thermodynamics, much less pony up to bankroll it.

.
20-07-2022 04:07
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
IBdaMann wrote:
Violating thermodynamics means that it cannot work.
So a dam violates thermodynamics? Good to know.

dehammer wrote:
Dams do not load their own water.
No, gravity does. In both systems.

dehammer wrote:
Your contraption generates the water pressure from the energy.
Again, you have proven that your brain is too small to get around the concept. No, The water pressure is generated by gravity. It pulls the water down and that puts pressure on the water below it. Yes, the hydrogen cell does load the first dam with water, but then it has no effects on other dams.

Just like the river I mentioned before, water released from a higher dam fills the lake/pool of a lower lake down and that produces more weight on the second dam's turbine.

I think for now on, Ill just say "what ever you think nunnuts" when you commit since you have proven to have no concept of reality.
Edited on 20-07-2022 04:12
20-07-2022 04:09
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
IBdaMann wrote:snip
what ever you think numnuts
Edited on 20-07-2022 04:13
20-07-2022 05:11
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12584)
dehammer wrote:what ever you think numnuts

Going with what I think is the best policy. That way you avoid those pesky physics violations.

Good call.



.
20-07-2022 06:19
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(480)
IBdaMann wrote:
dehammer wrote:what ever you think numnuts

Going with what I think is the best policy. That way you avoid those pesky physics violations.

Good call.



.
What ever you think numnuts.
20-07-2022 10:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
duncan61 wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James_ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Unfortunately, as I am a disabled vet, I can not build this myself.



I'm a disabled Vet. I don't use that as an excuse not to learn or to work.

Lie.
James_ wrote:
You see, you have now created a problem. You see my good friend AB Hammer has it bad. He can barely walk and doesn't have a car to drive. So if you think you have problems just know that his are worse. And he told me that I should use him as an example as someone who will never ask for help because that's not what real men do.

You are BOTH asking for help, liar.
James_ wrote:
And yet you wouldn't want credit for thinking of using hydrogen fuel cell technology for desalination? Unless you do the work that's the only thing I can do for you and mention your thread. After all I don't know you so why should I take your word for it? And since I don't know you, I have my own life to live with people who I know who they are and not some random stranger on the internet.

Electrolysis IS desalination. Remember the salt left behind is a problem.


The desalination plants I have worked on function by pumping high pressure salt water through a membrane.On the water purification plants I worked on at Aquasol we installed bleeds with a needle valve going to a flow meter so the amount of waste could be controlled.Where I live the evaporative air conditioner is a quality brand and on initial startup It dumps the H2O contents of the device and does a prewet.Most have an electric probe and when it is salty enough for a current to pass they will dump the system.Earlier ones had a bleed you could set manually so fresh water is constantly topping the system up.The salt left behind is a problem but manageable

What do you mean by 'manageable'?

[QUOTE=Poor Richard Saunders;5207091]
Having a bleed and replacing the water regular stops the salt building up.

What 'bleed'?????!? How does adding seawater stop the salt building up?????!?
[QUOTE=Poor Richard Saunders;5207091]
The water where I live is very good but if it keeps evaporating the impurities will build up.[/quote]
Are you equating fresh water with sea water??????????!?
[QUOTE=Poor Richard Saunders;5207091]
New systems do a regular dump the lot cycle.Early summer I will get on the roof and wash the panels
[/quote]
Random words. No apparent coherency. Try again.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 20-07-2022 11:15
20-07-2022 10:25
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
dehammer wrote:
James_ wrote:So if you think you have problems just know that his are worse.
I had a stroke and can barely walk any distance. I can not climb mountains which would be necessary for this. Just because some people are able does not mean all are.

not what real men do.
Real men know their on limit.

And yet you wouldn't want credit for thinking of using hydrogen fuel cell technology for desalination?
This is not about desalination. It can be used to get clean water but it is about producing electricity.

Unless you do the work
I will be honest with you. I know I can not do this, but I hoped I could get someone with the knowledge I do not have to try to model it, and then they could build it. I would not even be worried that I would not be paid for it.

So you want someone to build this massive perpetual motion machine for you and to pay for this monstrous thing themselves. Gotit.
dehammer wrote:
Things like that have happened many times in history. Take Velcro. It was first suggested in a science fiction book and the guy could not make it. Years later someone else read it and thought that would be a good idea, and figured out how to make it. Now THAT person makes the money. IF I could do this, I think I could be a billionaire, but I can not. So, I put it out thinking someone else might see it and think it was a good idea.

Now how Velco was invented. Velcro was invented by a Swiss electrical engineer by the name of George de Mestral, who notice how burrs stuck to his dog's fur. He founded the Velcro company.

dehammer wrote:
Instead, I had a lot of people telling me that despite it working on a huge scale in nature, it could not work in man made miniature because "they said so".

It will not work in any scale. You are still ignoring the laws of thermodynamics.
dehammer wrote:
I understand you can not build it, and a lot of that is because you do not understand what it is all about.

You have described what it's all about. It's about building a massive perpetual motion machine with someone else's money.
dehammer wrote:
Let me give you an idea of how it could possibly be used. In northern Africa, there is the Mediterranean sea on one side of a huge mountain range. On the other side is the Sahara desert. In between there is a range that can rise up to 27000 feet. There is a lot of people that live on the sea side of the mountain and they use (or could use) a lot of electricity.

They already have it.
dehammer wrote:
IF someone, a billionaire or something, or a company saw this and saw the model would work, they could build a pipe (or two if they wanted to carry oxygen) from the seaward side up to the peak. Then after running it through a hydrogen fuel cell, they would dump it in to the first of 100 "dams" (covered pool, pipe, turbine and generator) systems. This would drop the water 25000 feet to the desert. The water could be dumped initially into a cistern, then used to irrigate hundreds of square miles of farmland. The plants transpiration (water loss) on the farmland, plus any exposed water would vaporize and become clouds over the desert. Since the normal wind flow of the desert is basically circular, the water would be carried all around the desert and would fall back during the night as rain.

No, you can't use the same water three times.
dehammer wrote:
OF course the moisture would not remain in the desert forever and would eventually be lost, but it would being a large portion of the desert back to life.

No, you can't use the same water three times.
dehammer wrote:
At the same time, it would power much of the electric needs of the countries on the northern part of the continent.

No, you can't use the same water three times.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
20-07-2022 10:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19283)
dehammer wrote:
James_ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
duncan61 wrote:What does the hydrogen do then?

Apparently, the hydrogen is used to fill the hydrogen fuel cell ... which powers the turbines to perform the electrolysis that makes more hydrogen for the fuel cell ... in perpetuity ... while also generating lots of spare energy that can be used to save the planet.


This is a bona fide perpetual motion machine. We'll be able to throw out the book on thermodynamics. Physics will be turned on its head. And to think that this revolutionary system was conceptualized by a truly humble and scientifically illiterate philanthropist crusading to save humanity on Climate-Debate.

.



I tried getting him to understand the limitations of what he was suggesting. You know, for him to understand what is involved with such processes. An example is if you have a pipe filled with hydrogen gas, would it become another Hindenburg disaster?
And to limit that possibility how diluted would the gas in the pipe need to be? And then when a membrane has a limited surface area, how does the flow of gasses and their saturation affect the amount of reactions that generates water?
This is where if he would've put more time into research his idea then it'd be easier to understand how viable of a concept it is. But it's up to him to learn about what he's promoting. Then he can explain it so people would be able to understand why he likes his idea.
No, what you tried to get me to understand was the limit of YOUR understanding.

It is not meant to for desalinating water. It is meant to make electricity by raising the gas up a pipe.

IF you have a pipe 27000 feet high and one foot wide with a vacuum, and on the bottom of the pipe, you started pumping hydrogen in, would it remain on the bottom like water, or would it be like air and rise up though the pipe?

What is producing the vacuum?
dehammer wrote:
Obviously anyone with any slight knowledge of science would tell you that the gas would fill the vacuum.

What is producing the vacuum?
dehammer wrote:
IF you kept pumping in hydrogen, eventually the gas would fill the pipe. If you continued to do so, the gas pressure would continue to rise.

Okay. What is producing the vacuum?
dehammer wrote:
Imagine if you would a pipe with a large "ping pong ball". The ball weights just slightly more than air BUT it completely fills the pipe's cross section.

So you plug the pipe. Why?
dehammer wrote:
The bottom of the pipe is connected to a sea, such as the Mediterranean. The top of the pipe has a vacuum pump. Since the pipe was put in with it opened to the air, the pressure of the air at the top of the pipe is the same as the pressure outside the pipe at 27000 feet.

Simultaneously. you start to add hydrogen at the bottom of the pipe and vacuum the air at the top. Since the ball completely blocks air from moving from below to above, as you put more hydrogen below and remove it from above, the ball rises. You would need more hydrogen than the air you pump out to move the ball, but not a large percentage. Eventually, the ball would rise all the way to the top. At that point the air in the pipe would (thoracically) be pretty close to 100%. The pressure on the water at the bottom would be the same as air outside the pipe. IF you then connected the hydrogen to a fuel cell, and kept adding the same amount of hydrogen as the pump too out at the top, the pipe would remain the same pressure.

So you are pumping hydrogen up 27000 ft. Do you know how much pressure that is?????!?
dehammer wrote:
You would not need to have a pump push the hydrogen up the pipe,

You JUST DESCRIBED A PUMP, dumbass!
dehammer wrote:
since the increased pressure of added hydrogen at the bottom and decreased pressure at the top from released hydrogen would cause the gas to continually move up.

What is providing the vacuum?????!?
dehammer wrote:
To be honest, I would not build it as a single build. If I were building it, I would determine what the lowest level that you could produce more electricity from the dam's below than I needed and start with that level. The first level would then be bringing in a small amount of money as I raised it up 250 feet to the next level. Each level I went up, would increase the income, paying for more of the system as you went up the mountain.

With what? It's not producing surplus electricity.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
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