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16-12-2020 21:51
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
Into the Night wrote:There are several States where the electoral college is contested now. Biden's supposed lead in the majority has disappeared. It appears there is no valid majority. This would cause the 12th amendment method to be used.


This is what it looks like.

US Constitution, Amendment XII
Passed by Congress December 9, 1803.
Ratified June 15, 1804.

Note: A portion of Article II, section 1 of the Constitution was superseded by this 12th amendment.

The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; -- the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; -- The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. [And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.* The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

*Superseded by section 3 of the 20th amendment. See below.


US Constitution, Amendment XX, Section 3
Passed by Congress March 2, 1932.
Ratified January 23, 1933.

If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
16-12-2020 21:52
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1869)
HarveyH55 wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:...mass targeted fraud.
Which is insurmountable in it's evidence, and pending in the supreme court and yawn yawn yawn.

Indeed it is. No yawns necessary.

tmiddles wrote:
Qanon can't save you.

What does Qanon have to do with our discussion? I don't give a flying flip about Qanon.

tmiddles wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Joe was just the vehicle used to drive Kamala to the oval office.
How does the alien Hilary adopted during the Clinton administration factor in?
Qanon must be busy, I'm not getting a reply are you?

Again, what does Qanon have to do with anything? Guzzler is correct, though. Joe Biden will not be the chief executive of the USA for very long. The MSM is already prepping to destroy him via the Hunter Biden story that was a "complete non-story" for months before the election, but is now suddenly a story a month after the election. Assuming that Trump ends up losing, I will (at that point) mentally prepare myself for a Kkkamala Harris presidency. Of course, I still have faith that Trump will end up winning one way or another. Elections results are still indeterminate, despite the MSM lies about the December 14th date...


The electors just turned in their votes, but congress needs count them. Kind of like when the media was calling states, even before they finished counting.

There was so much going on, I never got around to looking up what the democrats meant by Qanon. They make up more words an phrases than a cult. Misuse a lot of words as well. Sort just gotten the habit of ignoring them.

That's probably for the best.
16-12-2020 22:04
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1869)
IBdaMann wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Qanon can't save you.

What does Qanon have to do with our discussion? I don't give a flying flip about Qanon.


I realized some time ago that QANON (sp?) is a fabrication on the left to generate confusion and to use as a defensive non sequitur facilitating a rhetorical retreat and regroup. Five years ago, tgoebbles could have just blurted out "the KKK can't save you" in order to obligate you to respond to that while momentarily disrupting the continuity of your current argument's line of reasoning and simultaneously establishing the assumption that you are a RACIST!

However, around that time Leftists saw that they weren't getting any traction with that tactic because it was so overused, so cliché and everyone knows that the KKK were Democrats back when they lynched blacks. So they fabricated this QN'AN (sp?) and they use that instead. It's why only Leftists ever mention it, or even pretend to know what it is.

.

BUT, but... but.... BUT... but WIKIPEDIA tells me that QAnon (sp?) is a disproven and discredited far-right conspiracy theory


You motivated me to look up the Wikipropaganda on Q&A'on (sp?) and it makes sense that tgoebbles believes what he believes about QN'NON (sp?) since Wikipedia is the mechanism for his slavemasters to manipulate him, to provide him his marching orders, to establish his virtue-signalling requirements and to generally do his thinking for him. I was wondering, however, how tgoebbles avoids shitting in his pants or starving to death since he cannot think for himself ... but now I know that Wikipedia already thought of that and has him covered.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_food_ordering
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defecation

Now we know.

.

I just about died laughing; that was absolutely hilarious... The not so funny part, however, is that there are plenty of people (like tgoebbles) out there who need such instructions...
17-12-2020 00:11
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
IBdaMann wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Evidence exists.....

NOT a judge..
The courts have nothing to do with determining the crime of Fraud? hmmm.

gfm7175 wrote:...insurmountable in it's evidence, a....
Indeed it is.
Yeah just too bad it's too big to post online. Dang internet. You can barely fit anything up here (I just hit my elbow).

gfm7175 wrote:...A LOT of people who will no longer bother with the illusion of legitimate elections...
MAGA ?!?

Mission accomplished Mr. Putin.

IBdaMann wrote:...QANON (sp?) is a fabrication on the left...
Which one? Was Doug involved? He did not mention it at the meeting.

It's good work. Is she like an android or something? The Left's powers seem to be limitless.
17-12-2020 00:57
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
tgoebbles asks: The courts have nothing to do with determining the crime of Fraud? hmmm.

Only the State legislatures need to be convinced wrt which electors they "appoint in such Manner".

You will have a point later when criminal charges are brought against individuals who perpetrated fraud. Of course, that is a completely separate matter and has no bearing on "such Manner" that the electors are "appointed."

Why do you believe that the Constitution grants any power to any courts in "such Manner" as the electors are "appointed"?

tgoebbles asks:
IBdaMann wrote:...QANON (sp?) is a fabrication on the left...
Which one? Was Doug involved? He did not mention it at the meeting.

You seem to be the only one who knows anything about this QA'NO (sp?) thing, and yet you are asserting that it is somehow my conspiracy theory.

Who are you fooling exactly?

tgoebbles asks: The Left's powers seem to be limitless.

The Left is certainly powerful. The Left's power is surpassed only by its limitless dishonesty. You know all about that.

tgoebbles asks: Is she like an android or something?



More like ze' governator, leading by example! Excellent. Go 2nd Amendment!

Bill of Rights - Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.




.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 17-12-2020 00:59
17-12-2020 04:38
anthonyabr
☆☆☆☆☆
(2)
This most likely won't happen. I thought conservatives were more about "conserving" the traditional ways. Splitting away from America is what the Confederates tried to do, and that caused the Civil War. This is not a good idea, especially now.
17-12-2020 05:24
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
IBdaMann wrote:... a point later when criminal charges ...completely separate matter and has no bearing on "such Manner" that the electors are "appointed."
So proof of election fraud is irrelevant to a state legislature certifying an election?

Weird perspective you have. I'm glad you're not a legislator.

IBdaMann wrote:The Left is certainly powerful.
Ah ah! Let's be a bit more precise. Your theory demands that they be FAR FAR more powerful than the right.

That Trump is weak and ineffective in the face of their dishonest brilliance.

the IMPOTUS in chief, swept aside in a brilliant move orchestrated by...wait who masterminded this thing IBD? Shiff?
17-12-2020 06:35
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
tgoebbles wrote: So proof of election fraud is irrelevant to a state legislature certifying an election?

Correct. They only need be convinced.

Also, you well know that you are incorrectly using the word "proof" making your question worthy of being asked by a moron.

tgoebbles wrote: Ah ah! Let's be a bit more precise. Your theory demands that they be FAR FAR more powerful than the right.

Nope. I have no theory, and thus no demands.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 17-12-2020 06:36
17-12-2020 06:53
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
IBdaMann wrote:
tgoebbles wrote: So proof of election fraud is irrelevant...

Correct. They only need be convinced.
By what?

IBdaMann wrote:..you are incorrectly using the word "proof"
No I am referencing court. You must "prove" a case in court.

IBdaMann wrote:...I have no theory, ...
Ah the crazy train builds steam. So it's not a "theory" there was massive election fraud? What is it then?

A "fact"? A "law of physics" perhaps?
Edited on 17-12-2020 07:13
17-12-2020 07:53
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tgoebbles wrote: So proof of election fraud is irrelevant...

Correct. They only need be convinced.
By what?

What it takes to convince them. Overwhelming evidence works.

tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:..you are incorrectly using the word "proof"
No I am referencing court. You must "prove" a case in court.

Nope. One makes a convincing case in court. What do you think happens when a prosecutor wins on a purely circumstantial case? The defense counsel doesn't get the case thrown out on the basis of "that doesn't prove anything!"

tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...I have no theory, ...
So it's not a "theory" there was massive election fraud? What is it then?

Observation. First it was an announcement on the part of the DNC months in advance and then millions of people tuned-in on election night to watch the show with high expectations, with many betting heavily on the fraud being perpetrated through mail-in ballots.

Ask the board if I was the only one who watched it happen live.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-12-2020 08:50
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
IBdaMann wrote:Overwhelming evidence works.

And we come to how does someone "know" something to be true? In the United States we "Innocent until proven guilty" so that when the crowd in the street rage for justice the matter is referred to a court of law.

A legislator is certainly free to make decisions. They could make poor decision based on hearsay and innuendo. But simply to point out that irresponsible behavior is legal, does not make it appropriate.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:..You must "prove" a case in court.
Nope. One makes a convincing case in court.
Sorry but the vocabulary of the court is well established and the word is "prove", not "convince".

https://www.uscourts.gov/glossary#letter_p

"Burden of proof
The duty to prove disputed facts. In civil cases, a plaintiff generally has the burden of proving his or her case. In criminal cases, the government has the burden of proving the defendant's guilt. (See standard of proof.)"

The US Court System will define it's own terms. Your input is irrelevant.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:...[if] it's not a "theory" there was massive election fraud? What is it then?
Observation.


Were you going to call the police at some point? Because if you observed a crime being committed you really should. Do you know the name of anyone you observed committing voter fraud? Have smart phone with you to snap a photo?

Also I'm curious: It's safe to say there is plenty you did not directly observe. How sure are you that the MASSIVE voter fraud was exclusively Democratic?
17-12-2020 09:20
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:Overwhelming evidence works.
And we come to how does someone "know" something to be true?

Nope. That's not a stop for this train.

We are on the "Just Need to be Convinced" Express.

When you have video of fraud being perpetrated in real time, to the extent that it exceeds the difference, any rational human will become convinced of what he is observing.

That is the final destination on this line.

tgoebbles wrote: A legislator is certainly free to make decisions.

That's their job.

One of their decisions, per the Constitution, is to determine the electors for the President of the United States. Nobody else gets to make that decision.

tgoebbles wrote: They could make poor decision based on hearsay and innuendo.

... or they can make the right decision based on what they see with their own eyes.

tgoebbles wrote: Sorry but the vocabulary of the court is well established and the word is "prove", not "convince".

You're not a lawyer. Ask me how I know.

One convinces a jury. Period. One presents a case. Courts hear cases. This reality is not superseded by any dictionary.

tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tgoebbles wrote:...[if] it's not a "theory" there was massive election fraud? What is it then?
Observation.
Were you going to call the police at some point?

Yes, I was but I momentarily hesitated and that was all that was needed for others to beat me to it.

tgoebbles wrote:Also I'm curious: It's safe to say there is plenty you did not directly observe. How sure are you that the MASSIVE voter fraud was exclusively Democratic?

I'm very sure.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 17-12-2020 09:23
17-12-2020 09:56
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
IBdaMann wrote:...you have video of fraud being perpetrated in real time, ...
No you do not. The Earth is not flat. Hillary did not adopt a Alien child while in the white house.

This is why we have a court system.

IBdaMann wrote:...That is the final destination on this line....
That you don't even pretend to be interested in prosecution and consequences betrays that you don't believe this BS. Those who want to stop at rumor know they are liars.

IBdaMann wrote:...One of [a state legislator's ]decisions, per the Constitution, is to determine the electors for the President of the United States. Nobody else gets to make that decision.
Very true. Hate to break it to you but they don't wing it every year. They, the state legislature, wrote down their own rules for doing so. And yes, they have to follow their own rules.

Example: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(edsluw3npnevzbk2rtdf3ohv))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-116-1954-IV.pdf
"electors of president and vice-president of the United States shall be elected in
the manner herein provided:" You see, they have the power, and they used it. "The candidates for electors of president and vice-president who shall be considered elected are those whose names have been certified to the secretary of state by that political party receiving the greatest number of votes for those offices at the next November election"
So the State Legislature of Michigan used their constitutional power and they have spoken. Unfortunately for wack jobs like you and Trump they did that in 1954.

So it is written.

IBdaMann wrote:One convinces a jury. Period.
Keep holding on to your alternate vacbulary world. No one cares.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:Also I'm curious: It's safe to say there is plenty you did not directly observe. How sure are you that the MASSIVE voter fraud was exclusively Democratic?

I'm very sure.
With 150 million votes why would you be so sure that there were 10 million fraudulent votes for Biden and 0 for Trump?

You do realize the only case of someone being prosecuted for trying to cast a fraudulent ballot is a Trumper right? https://www.fox29.com/news/authorities-pennsylvania-man-tried-to-request-ballot-for-deceased-mother
Edited on 17-12-2020 10:06
17-12-2020 10:18
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15047)
anthonyabr wrote:
This most likely won't happen. I thought conservatives were more about "conserving" the traditional ways. Splitting away from America is what the Confederates tried to do, and that caused the Civil War. This is not a good idea, especially now.
The United States has never had a civil war. The War of Secession started when Lincoln tried to resupply a fort in a foreign nation without the leave of that foreign nation.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
17-12-2020 10:19
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15047)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:... a point later when criminal charges ...completely separate matter and has no bearing on "such Manner" that the electors are "appointed."
So proof of election fraud is irrelevant to a state legislature certifying an election?

Weird perspective you have. I'm glad you're not a legislator.

IBdaMann wrote:The Left is certainly powerful.
Ah ah! Let's be a bit more precise. Your theory demands that they be FAR FAR more powerful than the right.

That Trump is weak and ineffective in the face of their dishonest brilliance.

the IMPOTUS in chief, swept aside in a brilliant move orchestrated by...wait who masterminded this thing IBD? Shiff?

Mantras 22i.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
17-12-2020 10:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15047)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tgoebbles wrote: So proof of election fraud is irrelevant...

Correct. They only need be convinced.
By what?

RQAA
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:..you are incorrectly using the word "proof"
No I am referencing court. You must "prove" a case in court.

Mantra 22i.
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...I have no theory, ...
Ah the crazy train builds steam. So it's not a "theory" there was massive election fraud? What is it then?
A "fact"? A "law of physics" perhaps?

Mantras 22i. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
17-12-2020 10:23
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15047)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:Overwhelming evidence works.

And we come to how does someone "know" something to be true?

In the United States we "Innocent until proven guilty" so that when the crowd in the street rage for justice the matter is referred to a court of law.

A legislator is certainly free to make decisions. They could make poor decision based on hearsay and innuendo. But simply to point out that irresponsible behavior is legal, does not make it appropriate.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:..You must "prove" a case in court.
Nope. One makes a convincing case in court.
Sorry but the vocabulary of the court is well established and the word is "prove", not "convince".

https://www.uscourts.gov/glossary#letter_p

"Burden of proof
The duty to prove disputed facts. In civil cases, a plaintiff generally has the burden of proving his or her case. In criminal cases, the government has the burden of proving the defendant's guilt. (See standard of proof.)"

The US Court System will define it's own terms. Your input is irrelevant.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:...[if] it's not a "theory" there was massive election fraud? What is it then?
Observation.


Were you going to call the police at some point? Because if you observed a crime being committed you really should. Do you know the name of anyone you observed committing voter fraud? Have smart phone with you to snap a photo?

Also I'm curious: It's safe to say there is plenty you did not directly observe. How sure are you that the MASSIVE voter fraud was exclusively Democratic?

RQAA. Mantras 22i.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
17-12-2020 10:23
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15047)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...you have video of fraud being perpetrated in real time, ...
No you do not. The Earth is not flat. Hillary did not adopt a Alien child while in the white house.

This is why we have a court system.

IBdaMann wrote:...That is the final destination on this line....
That you don't even pretend to be interested in prosecution and consequences betrays that you don't believe this BS. Those who want to stop at rumor know they are liars.

IBdaMann wrote:...One of [a state legislator's ]decisions, per the Constitution, is to determine the electors for the President of the United States. Nobody else gets to make that decision.
Very true. Hate to break it to you but they don't wing it every year. They, the state legislature, wrote down their own rules for doing so. And yes, they have to follow their own rules.

Example: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(edsluw3npnevzbk2rtdf3ohv))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-116-1954-IV.pdf
"electors of president and vice-president of the United States shall be elected in
the manner herein provided:" You see, they have the power, and they used it. "The candidates for electors of president and vice-president who shall be considered elected are those whose names have been certified to the secretary of state by that political party receiving the greatest number of votes for those offices at the next November election"
So the State Legislature of Michigan used their constitutional power and they have spoken. Unfortunately for wack jobs like you and Trump they did that in 1954.

So it is written.

IBdaMann wrote:One convinces a jury. Period.
Keep holding on to your alternate vacbulary world. No one cares.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:Also I'm curious: It's safe to say there is plenty you did not directly observe. How sure are you that the MASSIVE voter fraud was exclusively Democratic?

I'm very sure.
With 150 million votes why would you be so sure that there were 10 million fraudulent votes for Biden and 0 for Trump?

You do realize the only case of someone being prosecuted for trying to cast a fraudulent ballot is a Trumper right? https://www.fox29.com/news/authorities-pennsylvania-man-tried-to-request-ballot-for-deceased-mother

RQAA. Mantras 22i.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
17-12-2020 17:34
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1869)
anthonyabr wrote:
This most likely won't happen.

What is "this"? I'm assuming that you are referring to secession, but I just want to make sure...

anthonyabr wrote:
I thought conservatives were more about "conserving" the traditional ways.

A 'conservative' (in the most general sense of the word) is simply someone who wishes to preserve something (to keep something together). In the specific context of USA politics, a 'conservative' is someone who wishes to preserve the Constitution of the USA.

anthonyabr wrote:
Splitting away from America is what the Confederates tried to do,

Correct.

anthonyabr wrote:
and that caused the Civil War.

Incorrect. First off, it technically was not a civil war but rather a war of secession. A civil war is a war between multiple factions of the same nation (vying for control over it), while a war of secession is a war between two separate nations (one attempting to break free from the control of the other). A war of secession (between Britain and its former colonies) is how the USA came to be. That war has since been called the War of Independence, as the USA won independence from Britain and became their own country.

Secondly, the formation of the Confederacy did not cause the war of secession. The war was caused by Lincoln (the USA) when he attempted to resupply a fort that was within a foreign nation (the Confederacy) without authorization from that foreign nation.

anthonyabr wrote:
This is not a good idea, especially now.

I think that tensions are so tight right now that civil war is most likely in the USA's near future. Demokkkrats in the big cities have already all but officially declared it.

It also appears that your posts and thread creations are posting in triplicates for some reason...
Edited on 17-12-2020 17:45
17-12-2020 17:48
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1869)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:Overwhelming evidence works.

And we come to how does someone "know" something to be true?

How do you "know" that you are tmiddles?
How do you "know" that 2+2=4?
How do you "know" that you know what you know?
How do you "know" that you have not pooped your pants?
Edited on 17-12-2020 17:49
17-12-2020 21:13
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3189)
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:Overwhelming evidence works.

And we come to how does someone "know" something to be true?

How do you "know" that you are tmiddles?
How do you "know" that 2+2=4?
How do you "know" that you know what you know?
How do you "know" that you have not pooped your pants?


Because he can look it up in Wikipedia...
18-12-2020 00:04
James___
★★★★★
(4150)
anthonyabr wrote:
This most likely won't happen. I thought conservatives were more about "conserving" the traditional ways. Splitting away from America is what the Confederates tried to do, and that caused the Civil War. This is not a good idea, especially now.



Most people in here are idiots. It's not about America but it is about the party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMaJyUQfwv4
Edited on 18-12-2020 00:05
18-12-2020 05:04
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
James___ wrote: Most people in here are idiots.


Who is the biggest idiot in here?

It's me, isn't it? C'mon, you can admit it.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-12-2020 12:36
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
gfm7175 wrote:
How do you "know" that....
Do you want to actually debate how you or I "know" something or are you going to just duck out with an "RQAA"?

It is THE fundamental question here in my view.
18-12-2020 15:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
tmiddles wrote:Do you want to actually debate how you or I "know" something

That is exactly what you have stupidly been trying to debate, as a means for ducking out of the fraud discussion.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-12-2020 15:53
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
IBdaMann wrote:...a means for ducking out...
How do you know there has been fraud?

Bill Bar and every court it's been brought to say no.

Convicted criminals, a disbarred attorney and the like claim there is.

I consider the first group to be reputable sources and the second group to be unreliable.

So how do you know?

I know that I have no reason to believe there has been fraud, because I don't.
18-12-2020 16:05
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
tmiddles wrote: How do you know there has been fraud?


tmiddles wrote:Do you want to actually debate how you or I "know" something


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-12-2020 16:40
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
IBdaMann wrote:do you know there has been fraud?

tmiddles wrote:Do you want to actually debate how you or I "know" something
[/quote] So that's a no.
18-12-2020 17:18
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:do you know there has been fraud?

tmiddles wrote:Do you want to actually debate how you or I "know" something
So that's a no.

So you're dodging.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-12-2020 19:00
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1869)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
How do you "know" that....
Do you want to actually debate how you or I "know" something or are you going to just duck out with an "RQAA"?

It is THE fundamental question here in my view.

You've already ducked out of this thread's topic, dude... Are you suggesting that we start up a new discussion about "knowing"? Are you going to duck out of that one too?
18-12-2020 19:15
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1869)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...a means for ducking out...
How do you know there has been fraud?

How do you know there was no fraud?

tmiddles wrote:
Bill Bar and every court it's been brought to say no.

Are the opinions (your twisted versions of them) of Bill Barr and "every court" (some courts, who ignored the Constitution as well as issued their rulings on standing rather than merit) how you "know" there was no fraud?

tmiddles wrote:
I know that I have no reason to believe there has been fraud, because I don't.

I think this right here says it all.
18-12-2020 21:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15047)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
How do you "know" that....
Do you want to actually debate how you or I "know" something or are you going to just duck out with an "RQAA"?

You already answered your own question.
tmiddles wrote:
It is THE fundamental question here in my view.

RQAA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
18-12-2020 21:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15047)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...a means for ducking out...
How do you know there has been fraud?

RQAA
tmiddles wrote:
Bill Bar and every court it's been brought to say no.

No, they haven't.
tmiddles wrote:
Convicted criminals, a disbarred attorney and the like claim there is.

RQAA
tmiddles wrote:
I consider the first group to be reputable sources and the second group to be unreliable.

Nonsense statement.
tmiddles wrote:
So how do you know?

RQAA
tmiddles wrote:
I know that I have no reason to believe there has been fraud, because I don't.

Because you are locked into the paradoxes in the propaganda and denial of the evidence that exists. Evidence exists. A lot of it.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
18-12-2020 21:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15047)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:do you know there has been fraud?

tmiddles wrote:Do you want to actually debate how you or I "know" something
So that's a no.[/quote]

So you don't know anything???

I already knew this.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-12-2020 00:20
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
IBdaMann wrote:...you're dodging.
What? Fire away. Try asking a clear question.

gfm7175 wrote:...Are you suggesting that we start up a new discussion about "knowing"?
This thread's topic is do we "know", do they "know" there was voter fraud. So not a new topic at all. It is fundamental to this topic.

gfm7175 wrote:
How do you know there was no fraud?
I don't but that is the wrong question.

You should have asked "How do you know there was not enough fraud to change the result of the election?"

Happy to discuss that but only if you're willing to.

gfm7175 wrote:Are the opinions ... how you "know" there was no fraud?
Yes

gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
I know that I have no reason to believe there has been fraud, because I don't.

I think this right here says it all.
It does. Says it in English.

Do you have any reason to believe that Vladimir Putin had Pop Star Selena assassinated the?

How about any reason to believe that Hilary Clinton adopted an alien child (this has been published and editors signed of on it!).

Not having a reason to state that something is true is a big part of getting a handle on the reality around you. Pretty much the first step in calling bullshit on wacked out ideas.
Edited on 19-12-2020 00:24
19-12-2020 01:13
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
tmiddles wrote:What? Fire away. Try asking a clear question.


You mean "Try AGAIN ..." OK.

1) What are the unambiguous definitions of Global Warming, Climate Change and Greenhouse Effect that neither violate nor deny physics? [Status: Unanswered]
2) Why should any rational adult believe in either Global Warming, Climate Change or Greenhouse Effect? [Status: Unanswered]
3) How can I unambiguously demonstrate to my children thermal energy flowing from cooler to warmer? [Status: Unanswered]
4) How can I know the temperature of a large, unspecified volume, e.g. Denver, to within, say, 10degF with only one temperature measurement, e.g. the Denver airport? [Status: Unanswered]
5) What are the unambiguous definitions of "race," "negro," "black people," "white people," "brown people," "white supremacy," "white nationalsim," "white nationalist," "white supremacist," "black supremacist" and "racist"? [Status: Unanswered]
6) Is there an official list of races? [Status: Unanswered]
- 6a) How do I determine my own race or that of my children? [Status: Unanswered]
7) Why should any rational adult believe that there is a problem of racism in the United States? [Status: Unanswered]
8) Why should law abiding citizens be rendered defenseless before rampant violent crime? [Status: Unanswered]
9) Where in the 1st Amendment is "hate" prohibited such that, if shown, a prosecutor can throw someone in jail for having had that emotion/thought? [Status: Unanswered]
10) Why do you claim that an atmosphere only makes a planet's or moon's solid surface hotter since you are fully aware that no place at the bottom of earth's atmosphere ever reaches anywhere close to the daytime temperatures of the moon's atmosphereless solid surface? [Status: Unanswered]
11) If we were to discover that Lisa Gherardini was actually a shitty person, would that justify Black Lives Matter storming the Louvre to destroy the Mona Lisa? [Status: Unanswered]
12) Why should we destroy artifacts and relics pertaining to history that we never want to forget or repeat? [Status: Unanswered]
13) The Aztecs committed genocide of many other tribes and practiced human sacrifice; should their artwork and artifacts be destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
14) Why would you or anyone pretend to be a judge of what history is to be revised or destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
15) In what substantive/meaningful way do the platforms of Black Lives Matter, ANTIFA, The National Organization of Women, the DNC, Communist Party USA and Socialist Party USA ... differ? [Status: Unanswered]
16) Which type of wood are you claiming melts (assuming the proper temperature and pressure) ... and what is that specific temperature and pressure? [Status: Unanswered]

tmiddles wrote: This thread's topic is do we "know",

Nope. This thread's topic is "Do State legislatures have convincing evidence of election fraud."

Of course the obvious answer is "yes" and we are therefore done with this topic, yes?


tmiddles wrote:You should have asked "How do you know there was not enough fraud to change the result of the election?"

That would be a stupid, time-wasting question because the clear magnitude of the fraud in each of the contested States far exceeds Biden's thin margin, because the fraudsters clearly only did enough for Biden to eke out a "miraculous" win.

Biden loses in a crushing defeat if only half of the illegal ballots in each contested State are thrown out. There's nothing to discuss on that topic.

tmiddles wrote: I know that I have no reason to believe there has been fraud, because I don't.
gfm7175 wrote: I think this right here says it all.
It does. Says it in English.

You have established that you deny reality.
You have established that in your happy place FALSE = TRUE.
This explains why you are so dishonest in your arguments, i.e. everything you say that is false you nonetheless believe in your happy place that it is true.

There can be no productive discussion with you while you deny reality. For example, how can you realistically discuss the fraud of tens of thousands of illegal ballots being run through machines in secret when you deny the existence of the video showing it all happening? Exactly, you can't. Your insistence that others should waste their time engaging in such discussions with you should be ignored out of hand.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-12-2020 02:35
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1015)
You have won the discussion IBDM.Biden has won the election
19-12-2020 03:57
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
duncan61 wrote: You have won the discussion IBDM.Biden has won the election

You're not making much sense, but feel free to ignore discussions that do not interest you.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-12-2020 04:04
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:What? Fire away. Try asking a clear question.
... ....) The Aztecs committed genocide ...Status: Unanswered].
So nothing on topic.. you are tired of getting beaten. I get it

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: This thread's topic is do we "know",

Nope. This thread's topic is "Do State legislatures have convincing evidence of election fraud."
Exactly. Do they know there was election fraud. So how do they become "convinced " by evidence IBD? How do you?

IBdaMann wrote:...fraudsters clearly only did...
What makes it "clear" for you? The video you won't identify? Trump's tweets?

What possible reason is there for you and the Trump gang on this board to say there is a video and refuse to share?

I have to assume its because it's BS.
Edited on 19-12-2020 04:06
19-12-2020 05:14
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8621)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:What? Fire away. Try asking a clear question.
... ....) The Aztecs committed genocide ...Status: Unanswered].
So nothing on topic..

What part of "Fire away. Try asking a clear question" did I misunderstand?

I have to presume this is just another 22i on your part.

tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: This thread's topic is do we "know",
Nope. This thread's topic is "Do State legislatures have convincing evidence of election fraud."
Exactly.

I'm glad we got that settled.

tmiddles wrote: What possible reason is there for you and the Trump gang on this board to [refer to a publicly available video that I refuse to acknowledge]

None of us own the surveillance video of the State Farm Center in Atlanta that shows Democrat operatives pulling out six hidden boxes of "ballots" after everyone else had left and running them through the vote-counting machines in total secret without any observers. No one on this board can possibly prevent you from watching that video as many times as you like.

tmiddles wrote: I have to assume its because my head is in the sand.



A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
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