Remember me
▼ Content

Geoengineering to Neutralize Ocean Acidification



Page 13 of 16<<<1112131415>>>
08-03-2025 22:27
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(24072)
sealover wrote:
<--- Click on "sealover" (to the left of the arrow)

This will open the "sealover" profile page. The "Last 10 posts:" shows ten biogeochemistry related threads. Any of them can be opened with a click.
The first post on page 1 of this thread is by "sealover", to open profile page.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
In a perfect world, this thread would have been a place of scientific discussion.

You deny science. You are not having a scientific discussion.
sealover wrote:
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

You don't know how to measure pH. You don't even know what it is.
sealover wrote:
The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

It is not possible to measure the the pH of the oceans. Water is a buffer.
sealover wrote:
But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Carbon does not need to be 'sequestered'. Carbon exists naturally in the soil. Your 'work' is not science.
sealover wrote:
Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands,

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

You are not an 'expert'. You are a quack. You are a nothing.
sealover wrote:
After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta.

You make shit up.
sealover wrote:
Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.

It is not possible to acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios,

Climate cannot change. There is no 'scenario'.
sealover wrote:
atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline.

Carbon is not in the atmosphere (except as soot and particulates), easily washed out with the next rain.
sealover wrote:
Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow,

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Fossils don't burn.
sealover wrote:
ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves,

There is no such thing as 'environmental chemotherapy'. Alkalinity is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Why would you want to? Do you like throwing rocks into the ocean???
sealover wrote:
Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Alkalinity is not a chemical. Water is not a submarine.
sealover wrote:
Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate cannot be reduced or oxidized. Carbon is not an alkaline. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not carbon dioxide.
sealover wrote:
If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

Geoengineering is not science. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate is not a chemical.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
14-03-2025 08:36
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water. Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands, I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta. Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.


------------------------------------------------- 

Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios, atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline. Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow, ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves, dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

The most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning at the top of page 10
15-03-2025 02:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(24072)
Im a BM wrote:
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. You can't acidify and alkaline.
Im a BM wrote:
The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

You cannot acidify an alkaline.
Im a BM wrote:
The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

What pH change????? It is not possible to measure the pH of the ocean.
Im a BM wrote:
But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios,

Climate cannot change. There is nothing to 'mitigate'.
Im a BM wrote:
atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline.

Carbon is washed out of the air when it rains.
Im a BM wrote:
Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow,

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Fossils don't combust.
Im a BM wrote:
ocean "acidification"

You cannot acidify an alkaline.
Im a BM wrote:
(i.e. depletion of alkalinity)

Alkalinity is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
would continue to get worse for decades to come.

Argument from randU fallacy.
Im a BM wrote:
...deleted remaining spam...

Stop spamming.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
17-03-2025 23:26
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
MORE FUN WITH GOOGLE!

Google Inquiry: Is carbonate ion a chemical?

Google Answer: "Yes, carbonate ion, CO3(2-) is a chemical, specifically a polyatomic anion, and a fundamental part of many chemical compounds and processes."

Of course, Google is correct, as it usually is.

I would add that carbonate ion is an inorganic carbon oxyanion that is a major source of the ocean's capacity to buffer against pH change upon addition of acid. Carbonate ion is a weak base that neutralizes hydrogen ion, H+, or "protons" if you prefer.

CO3(2-) + H+ = HCO3- carbonate ion becomes bicarbonate ion, neutralizing H+

This is known as buffering.

Ocean "acidification" has diminished the concentration of carbonate ion, a CHEMICAL, in sea water.

Without sufficient carbonate ion available in solution, marine organisms cannot make enough calcium carbonate shell for healthy development.

Commercial shellfish operations already have to purchase a source of carbonate ion to add to the sea water they use, in order to have healthy larval development.

And don't allow some scientifically illiterate troll to ruin the party with some absurd bullshit about "carbonate is not a chemical" because they haven't got a clue how pH or buffering work. The Chemistry Clown is addicted to spamming.



Into the Night wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. You can't acidify and alkaline.
Im a BM wrote:
The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

You cannot acidify an alkaline.
Im a BM wrote:
The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

What pH change????? It is not possible to measure the pH of the ocean.
Im a BM wrote:
But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios,

Climate cannot change. There is nothing to 'mitigate'.
Im a BM wrote:
atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline.

Carbon is washed out of the air when it rains.
Im a BM wrote:
Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow,

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Fossils don't combust.
Im a BM wrote:
ocean "acidification"

You cannot acidify an alkaline.
Im a BM wrote:
(i.e. depletion of alkalinity)

Alkalinity is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
would continue to get worse for decades to come.

Argument from randU fallacy.
Im a BM wrote:
...deleted remaining spam...

Stop spamming.
18-03-2025 20:27
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(24072)
Im a BM wrote:
MORE FUN WITH GOOGLE!

Google is not God.
Im a BM wrote:
Google Inquiry: Is carbonate ion a chemical?

Google Answer: "Yes, carbonate ion, CO3(2-) is a chemical, specifically a polyatomic anion, and a fundamental part of many chemical compounds and processes."

Carbonate is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Of course, Google is correct, as it usually is.

Google is not God.
Im a BM wrote:
I would add that carbonate ion is an inorganic carbon oxyanion that is a major source of the ocean's capacity to buffer against pH change upon addition of acid. Carbonate ion is a weak base that neutralizes hydrogen ion, H+, or "protons" if you prefer.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Hydrogen is not a proton. You don't understand pH at all.
Im a BM wrote:
CO3(2-) + H+ = HCO3- carbonate ion becomes bicarbonate ion, neutralizing H+
Carbonate is not a chemical. Hydrogen is not a proton.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
This is known as buffering.

You don't even know what buffering is.
Im a BM wrote:
Ocean "acidification" has diminished the concentration of carbonate ion, a CHEMICAL, in sea water.

You can't acidify an alkaline. Carbonate is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Without sufficient carbonate ion available in solution, marine organisms cannot make enough calcium carbonate shell for healthy development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no trouble making shells.
Im a BM wrote:
Commercial shellfish operations already have to purchase a source of carbonate ion to add to the sea water they use, in order to have healthy larval development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish larva are not shells. Commercial shellfish operations don't add anything. Their biggest expense is the rack equipment left in the ocean water and the personnel used to seed and harvest the racks.
Im a BM wrote:
And don't allow some scientifically illiterate troll to ruin the party with some absurd bullshit about "carbonate is not a chemical" because they haven't got a clue how pH or buffering work.

It is YOU ignoring the laws of thermodynamics and make up BS about chemistry.
Im a BM wrote:
The Chemistry Clown is addicted to spamming.

That you are.

Stop spamming.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
18-03-2025 20:51
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Into the Night wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
MORE FUN WITH GOOGLE!

Google is not God.
Im a BM wrote:
Google Inquiry: Is carbonate ion a chemical?

Google Answer: "Yes, carbonate ion, CO3(2-) is a chemical, specifically a polyatomic anion, and a fundamental part of many chemical compounds and processes."

Carbonate is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Of course, Google is correct, as it usually is.

Google is not God.
Im a BM wrote:
I would add that carbonate ion is an inorganic carbon oxyanion that is a major source of the ocean's capacity to buffer against pH change upon addition of acid. Carbonate ion is a weak base that neutralizes hydrogen ion, H+, or "protons" if you prefer.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Hydrogen is not a proton. You don't understand pH at all.
Im a BM wrote:
CO3(2-) + H+ = HCO3- carbonate ion becomes bicarbonate ion, neutralizing H+
Carbonate is not a chemical. Hydrogen is not a proton.
[quote]Im a BM wrote:
This is known as buffering.

You don't even know what buffering is.
Im a BM wrote:
Ocean "acidification" has diminished the concentration of carbonate ion, a CHEMICAL, in sea water.

You can't acidify an alkaline. Carbonate is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Without sufficient carbonate ion available in solution, marine organisms cannot make enough calcium carbonate shell for healthy development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no trouble making shells.
Im a BM wrote:
Commercial shellfish operations already have to purchase a source of carbonate ion to add to the sea water they use, in order to have healthy larval development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish larva are not shells. Commercial shellfish operations don't add anything. Their biggest expense is the rack equipment left in the ocean water and the personnel used to seed and harvest the racks.
Im a BM wrote:
And don't allow some scientifically illiterate troll to ruin the party with some absurd bullshit about "carbonate is not a chemical" because they haven't got a clue how pH or buffering work.

It is YOU ignoring the laws of thermodynamics and make up BS about chemistry.
Im a BM wrote:
The Chemistry Clown is addicted to spamming.

That you are.

Stop spamming.


"Dilution is buffering, moron." "Water itself is a buffer for acid"... The list of hilarious Chemistry Clown quotes just goes on and on.

The Chemistry Clown refuses to share his secret definition for pH, but he will say that it is some kind of "ratio". I guess pH is a ratio.

Well, the hydrogen ion concentration is kind of a "ratio". It is the proton-to-volume ratio. Expressed as molarity, hydrogen ion concentration is reported in units of moles per liter.

But pH is not the hydrogen ion concentration.

It is the NEGATIVE LOGARITHM of that hydrogen ion concentration (molarity).

pH = -log[H+]

As such, pH will be BELOW ZERO if the hydrogen ion molarity is greater than 1.0

Such as a 1.5 M solution of nitric acid.

It is not really physically possible for a solution to hold a "ratio" of much more than 5 moles per liter hydrogen ions with ANY acid, but several mineral acids are capable creating below zero pH.

The acid mine drainage from the Iron Mountain Mine, near Mt. Shasta, has pH less than zero. ASK GOOGLE!
18-03-2025 21:05
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(24072)
Im a BM wrote:
"Dilution is buffering, moron." "Water itself is a buffer for acid"... The list of hilarious Chemistry Clown quotes just goes on and on.

You don't make that claim, Clown. You cannot claim something someone else says.
Im a BM wrote:
The Chemistry Clown refuses to share his secret definition for pH, but he will say that it is some kind of "ratio". I guess pH is a ratio.

You don't understand pH or how to calculate it.
Im a BM wrote:
Well, the hydrogen ion concentration is kind of a "ratio". It is the proton-to-volume ratio. Expressed as molarity, hydrogen ion concentration is reported in units of moles per liter.

You have already demonstrated you don't understand pH or how to calculate it.
Im a BM wrote:
But pH is not the hydrogen ion concentration.

It is the NEGATIVE LOGARITHM of that hydrogen ion concentration (molarity).

pH = -log[H+]

As such, pH will be BELOW ZERO if the hydrogen ion molarity is greater than 1.0

pH cannot be below zero.
Im a BM wrote:
Such as a 1.5 M solution of nitric acid.

It is not really physically possible for a solution to hold a "ratio" of much more than 5 moles per liter hydrogen ions with ANY acid, but several mineral acids are capable creating below zero pH.

pH cannot be below zero.
Im a BM wrote:
The acid mine drainage from the Iron Mountain Mine, near Mt. Shasta, has pH less than zero.

pH cannot be below zero.
Im a BM wrote:
ASK GOOGLE!

Google is not God.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
19-03-2025 19:53
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Into the Night wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
"Dilution is buffering, moron." "Water itself is a buffer for acid"... The list of hilarious Chemistry Clown quotes just goes on and on.

You don't make that claim, Clown. You cannot claim something someone else says.
Im a BM wrote:
The Chemistry Clown refuses to share his secret definition for pH, but he will say that it is some kind of "ratio". I guess pH is a ratio.

You don't understand pH or how to calculate it.
Im a BM wrote:
Well, the hydrogen ion concentration is kind of a "ratio". It is the proton-to-volume ratio. Expressed as molarity, hydrogen ion concentration is reported in units of moles per liter.

You have already demonstrated you don't understand pH or how to calculate it.
Im a BM wrote:
But pH is not the hydrogen ion concentration.

It is the NEGATIVE LOGARITHM of that hydrogen ion concentration (molarity).

pH = -log[H+]

As such, pH will be BELOW ZERO if the hydrogen ion molarity is greater than 1.0

pH cannot be below zero.
Im a BM wrote:
Such as a 1.5 M solution of nitric acid.

It is not really physically possible for a solution to hold a "ratio" of much more than 5 moles per liter hydrogen ions with ANY acid, but several mineral acids are capable creating below zero pH.

pH cannot be below zero.
Im a BM wrote:
The acid mine drainage from the Iron Mountain Mine, near Mt. Shasta, has pH less than zero.

pH cannot be below zero.
Im a BM wrote:
ASK GOOGLE!

Google is not God.


After nine years, the second rate sidekick became a heavy anchor.

The Chemistry Clown doesn't even understand enough of the most basic concepts to support the word games of the dominant troll's obfuscations.

Maybe it's the math symbols and numbers that you just can't grasp.

Math symbol "log" is for logarithm, base ten.

A minus sign (-) before that math symbol means is is the NEGATIVE value of that number.

"-log" means negative value of the base-10 logarithm.

Oh, yes, and the "p" in "pH" also designates the negative logarithm.

Maybe it was the "H" you didn't understand.

That stands for the molarity of hydrogen ion in solution, moles per liter.

SOOOOO.... pH - -log[H+] but you don't know what [H+] is either, so...

No wonder you can't solve for the pH of a 1.5 molar solution of strong acid.

The dominant troll tried to give you a way out, pretending it was really some kind of "change to the acid", rather than pH, that was of interest in pH buffering.

At least the dominant troll backed off from the absurd claim that the change is "more pronounced" adding a drop of acid to sea water, compared to pure water.

And he tried to bail you out of your buffering stupidity by saying dilution really IS one of the mechanisms of buffering.

But at some point you'll have to grasp the concept that bicarbonate ions and carbonate ions really DO exist. Even if you don't want to call them "chemicals".

Meanwhile, second rate sidekick got ditched because he became too heavy an anchor.
19-03-2025 23:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(24072)
Im a BM wrote:
After nine years, the second rate sidekick became a heavy anchor.

An anchor is not a person, Robert.
Im a BM wrote:
The Chemistry Clown doesn't even understand enough of the most basic concepts to support the word games of the dominant troll's obfuscations.

So? I already know your problem.
Im a BM wrote:
Maybe it's the math symbols and numbers that you just can't grasp.

I am not you, Robert.
Im a BM wrote:
Math symbol "log" is for logarithm, base ten.

A minus sign (-) before that math symbol means is is the NEGATIVE value of that number.

"-log" means negative value of the base-10 logarithm.

Oh, yes, and the "p" in "pH" also designates the negative logarithm.

Maybe it was the "H" you didn't understand.

That stands for the molarity of hydrogen ion in solution, moles per liter.

SOOOOO.... pH - -log[H+] but you don't know what [H+] is either, so...

No wonder you can't solve for the pH of a 1.5 molar solution of strong acid.

You have already demonstrated that you don't anything about pH or how to measure it.
Im a BM wrote:
The dominant troll tried to give you a way out, pretending it was really some kind of "change to the acid", rather than pH, that was of interest in pH buffering.

At least the dominant troll backed off from the absurd claim that the change is "more pronounced" adding a drop of acid to sea water, compared to pure water.

Go learn what 'troll' means. Buzzword fallacy. I already know you don't understand pH.
Im a BM wrote:
And he tried to bail you out of your buffering stupidity by saying dilution really IS one of the mechanisms of buffering.

Dilution is buffering, Robert.
Im a BM wrote:
But at some point you'll have to grasp the concept that bicarbonate ions and carbonate ions really DO exist. Even if you don't want to call them "chemicals".

Bicarbonate is not a chemical. Carbonate is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Meanwhile, second rate sidekick got ditched because he became too heavy an anchor.

An anchor is not a person.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
19-03-2025 23:54
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Into the Night wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
After nine years, the second rate sidekick became a heavy anchor.

An anchor is not a person, Robert.
Im a BM wrote:
The Chemistry Clown doesn't even understand enough of the most basic concepts to support the word games of the dominant troll's obfuscations.

So? I already know your problem.
Im a BM wrote:
Maybe it's the math symbols and numbers that you just can't grasp.

I am not you, Robert.
Im a BM wrote:
Math symbol "log" is for logarithm, base ten.

A minus sign (-) before that math symbol means is is the NEGATIVE value of that number.

"-log" means negative value of the base-10 logarithm.

Oh, yes, and the "p" in "pH" also designates the negative logarithm.

Maybe it was the "H" you didn't understand.

That stands for the molarity of hydrogen ion in solution, moles per liter.

SOOOOO.... pH - -log[H+] but you don't know what [H+] is either, so...

No wonder you can't solve for the pH of a 1.5 molar solution of strong acid.

You have already demonstrated that you don't anything about pH or how to measure it.
Im a BM wrote:
The dominant troll tried to give you a way out, pretending it was really some kind of "change to the acid", rather than pH, that was of interest in pH buffering.

At least the dominant troll backed off from the absurd claim that the change is "more pronounced" adding a drop of acid to sea water, compared to pure water.

Go learn what 'troll' means. Buzzword fallacy. I already know you don't understand pH.
Im a BM wrote:
And he tried to bail you out of your buffering stupidity by saying dilution really IS one of the mechanisms of buffering.

Dilution is buffering, Robert.
Im a BM wrote:
But at some point you'll have to grasp the concept that bicarbonate ions and carbonate ions really DO exist. Even if you don't want to call them "chemicals".

Bicarbonate is not a chemical. Carbonate is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
Meanwhile, second rate sidekick got ditched because he became too heavy an anchor.

An anchor is not a person.


IBdaMann put a LOT of work into this one for you. I hope you appreciate it. I hope you made a point to praise his post in which he writes 200 times:

"Carbonate is not a chemical."

TWO HUNDRED TIMES IN ONE POST, IBdaMann wrote "Carbonate is not a chemical."

He did that for you. Did you even thank him for it.

If he was telling the truth, he wrote each sentence individually, rather than copying it with an automatic function.

Because the most important thing for anyone to know about the chemistry involved in ocean acidification is that it can be argued that the term "carbonate" refers to an entire class of chemicals, and not just the individual chemical known as the carbonate ion.

Here's a tip for anyone reading chemistry literature, if you see the term "carbonate" and there isn't the name of a specific cation right in front of it (e.g. calcium carbonate), then "carbonate" is almost always a reference to the carbonate ion.

The carbonate ion, CO3(2-), is a specific chemical that is of major significance in ocean acidification.

Denial of the existence of carbonate ion as a chemical impedes rational discussion of seawater chemistry.

But IBdaMann did his best.

He wrote "Carbonate is not a chemical" TWO HUNDRED TIMES.

But the Chemistry Clown has written that sentence at least a THOUSAND TIMES by now.

Because not everyone has studied enough chemistry to know what the carbonate ion is, and the fact that the term "carbonate" frequently refers to it.
20-03-2025 09:27
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(24072)
Im a BM wrote:
Because the most important thing for anyone to know about the chemistry involved in ocean acidification is that it can be argued that the term "carbonate" refers to an entire class of chemicals, and not just the individual chemical known as the carbonate ion.

Carbonate is not a chemical. You can't acidify an alkaline.
Im a BM wrote:
Here's a tip for anyone reading chemistry literature,

Chemistry is not literature.
Im a BM wrote:
if you see the term "carbonate" and there isn't the name of a specific cation right in front of it (e.g. calcium carbonate), then "carbonate" is almost always a reference to the carbonate ion.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
The carbonate ion, CO3(2-), is a specific chemical that is of major significance in ocean acidification.

Carbonate is not a chemical. You cannot acidify an alkaline.
Im a BM wrote:
Denial of the existence of carbonate ion as a chemical impedes rational discussion of seawater chemistry.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
Im a BM wrote:
But IBdaMann did his best.

He wrote "Carbonate is not a chemical" TWO HUNDRED TIMES.

But the Chemistry Clown has written that sentence at least a THOUSAND TIMES by now.

I am not you, Robert.
Im a BM wrote:
Because not everyone has studied enough chemistry to know what the carbonate ion is, and the fact that the term "carbonate" frequently refers to it.

Carbonate is not a chemical.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
25-03-2025 01:48
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
The scientific genius of Into the Night.

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Is there a word you don't like?

Just get rid of the damn thing!

Declare it to be a meaningless "buzzword".

There is NO SUCH THING!

Good. No we don't have to deal with the possibility that it means something.

"You deny science". Indeed, you do!

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Good! By repeating the sentence it gains more authority.

Deny that an entire field of science even exists!

"Water is a buffer." According to the chemistry textbook of fantasyland.

"Carbonate is not a chemical".

Actually, carbonate ion IS a chemical. Dilution does not "buffer" sea water against pH change. Carbonate ion is a chemical that certainly DOES buffer against pH change upon addition of acid.

Into the Night wrote:

"Carbonate is not a chemical". Good. Repeat that sentence FIVE TIMES.

And finally we get into the REAL chemistry.

Something is NOT something else, damnit!

"Water is not a submarine".

The scientific genius of Into the Night.

Only a truly accomplished chemist with real world training in actual science would know how important it is to point out that "water is not a submarine".

If anyone actually has the patience to read it, this Into the Night post offers many more examples of something that is NOT something else.

That is how a scientific genius earns the right to say:

"You are not an expert. You are a quack. You are a nothing."

Of course, the BEST Into the Night quote spells it out most clearly.

"You are describing yourself."

You cannot acidify "an alkaline" because "carbonate is not a chemical" and "you make shit up."

Who could ever doubt that Into the Night is the legitimate "chemist". whereas I am merely a "quack"?

He certainly repeats the same sentence enough times to make it true.



sealover wrote:
<--- Click on "sealover" (to the left of the arrow)

This will open the "sealover" profile page. The "Last 10 posts:" shows ten biogeochemistry related threads. Any of them can be opened with a click.
The first post on page 1 of this thread is by "sealover", to open profile page.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
In a perfect world, this thread would have been a place of scientific discussion.

You deny science. You are not having a scientific discussion.
sealover wrote:
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

You don't know how to measure pH. You don't even know what it is.
sealover wrote:
The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

It is not possible to measure the the pH of the oceans. Water is a buffer.
sealover wrote:
But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Carbon does not need to be 'sequestered'. Carbon exists naturally in the soil. Your 'work' is not science.
sealover wrote:
Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands,

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

You are not an 'expert'. You are a quack. You are a nothing.
sealover wrote:
After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta.

You make shit up.
sealover wrote:
Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.

It is not possible to acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios,

Climate cannot change. There is no 'scenario'.
sealover wrote:
atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline.

Carbon is not in the atmosphere (except as soot and particulates), easily washed out with the next rain.
sealover wrote:
Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow,

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Fossils don't burn.
sealover wrote:
ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves,

There is no such thing as 'environmental chemotherapy'. Alkalinity is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Why would you want to? Do you like throwing rocks into the ocean???
sealover wrote:
Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Alkalinity is not a chemical. Water is not a submarine.
sealover wrote:
Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate cannot be reduced or oxidized. Carbon is not an alkaline. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not carbon dioxide.
sealover wrote:
If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

Geoengineering is not science. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate is not a chemical.
25-03-2025 02:34
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(7873)
Im a BM wrote:
The scientific genius of Into the Night.

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Is there a word you don't like?

Just get rid of the damn thing!

Declare it to be a meaningless "buzzword".

There is NO SUCH THING!

Good. No we don't have to deal with the possibility that it means something.

"You deny science". Indeed, you do!

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Good! By repeating the sentence it gains more authority.

Deny that an entire field of science even exists!

"Water is a buffer." According to the chemistry textbook of fantasyland.

"Carbonate is not a chemical".

Actually, carbonate ion IS a chemical. Dilution does not "buffer" sea water against pH change. Carbonate ion is a chemical that certainly DOES buffer against pH change upon addition of acid.

Into the Night wrote:

"Carbonate is not a chemical". Good. Repeat that sentence FIVE TIMES.

And finally we get into the REAL chemistry.

Something is NOT something else, damnit!

"Water is not a submarine".

The scientific genius of Into the Night.

Only a truly accomplished chemist with real world training in actual science would know how important it is to point out that "water is not a submarine".

If anyone actually has the patience to read it, this Into the Night post offers many more examples of something that is NOT something else.

That is how a scientific genius earns the right to say:

"You are not an expert. You are a quack. You are a nothing."

Of course, the BEST Into the Night quote spells it out most clearly.

"You are describing yourself."

You cannot acidify "an alkaline" because "carbonate is not a chemical" and "you make shit up."

Who could ever doubt that Into the Night is the legitimate "chemist". whereas I am merely a "quack"?

He certainly repeats the same sentence enough times to make it true.



sealover wrote:
<--- Click on "sealover" (to the left of the arrow)

This will open the "sealover" profile page. The "Last 10 posts:" shows ten biogeochemistry related threads. Any of them can be opened with a click.
The first post on page 1 of this thread is by "sealover", to open profile page.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
In a perfect world, this thread would have been a place of scientific discussion.

You deny science. You are not having a scientific discussion.
sealover wrote:
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

You don't know how to measure pH. You don't even know what it is.
sealover wrote:
The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

It is not possible to measure the the pH of the oceans. Water is a buffer.
sealover wrote:
But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Carbon does not need to be 'sequestered'. Carbon exists naturally in the soil. Your 'work' is not science.
sealover wrote:
Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands,

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

You are not an 'expert'. You are a quack. You are a nothing.
sealover wrote:
After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta.

You make shit up.
sealover wrote:
Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.

It is not possible to acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios,

Climate cannot change. There is no 'scenario'.
sealover wrote:
atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline.

Carbon is not in the atmosphere (except as soot and particulates), easily washed out with the next rain.
sealover wrote:
Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow,

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Fossils don't burn.
sealover wrote:
ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves,

There is no such thing as 'environmental chemotherapy'. Alkalinity is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Why would you want to? Do you like throwing rocks into the ocean???
sealover wrote:
Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Alkalinity is not a chemical. Water is not a submarine.
sealover wrote:
Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate cannot be reduced or oxidized. Carbon is not an alkaline. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not carbon dioxide.
sealover wrote:
If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

Geoengineering is not science. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate is not a chemical.


Everything that has mass is a chemical


IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD.

According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC

This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA

So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic?


Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy


Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
25-03-2025 14:28
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Swan wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
The scientific genius of Into the Night.

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Is there a word you don't like?

Just get rid of the damn thing!

Declare it to be a meaningless "buzzword".

There is NO SUCH THING!

Good. No we don't have to deal with the possibility that it means something.

"You deny science". Indeed, you do!

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Good! By repeating the sentence it gains more authority.

Deny that an entire field of science even exists!

"Water is a buffer." According to the chemistry textbook of fantasyland.

"Carbonate is not a chemical".

Actually, carbonate ion IS a chemical. Dilution does not "buffer" sea water against pH change. Carbonate ion is a chemical that certainly DOES buffer against pH change upon addition of acid.

Into the Night wrote:

"Carbonate is not a chemical". Good. Repeat that sentence FIVE TIMES.

And finally we get into the REAL chemistry.

Something is NOT something else, damnit!

"Water is not a submarine".

The scientific genius of Into the Night.

Only a truly accomplished chemist with real world training in actual science would know how important it is to point out that "water is not a submarine".

If anyone actually has the patience to read it, this Into the Night post offers many more examples of something that is NOT something else.

That is how a scientific genius earns the right to say:

"You are not an expert. You are a quack. You are a nothing."

Of course, the BEST Into the Night quote spells it out most clearly.

"You are describing yourself."

You cannot acidify "an alkaline" because "carbonate is not a chemical" and "you make shit up."

Who could ever doubt that Into the Night is the legitimate "chemist". whereas I am merely a "quack"?

He certainly repeats the same sentence enough times to make it true.



sealover wrote:
<--- Click on "sealover" (to the left of the arrow)

This will open the "sealover" profile page. The "Last 10 posts:" shows ten biogeochemistry related threads. Any of them can be opened with a click.
The first post on page 1 of this thread is by "sealover", to open profile page.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
In a perfect world, this thread would have been a place of scientific discussion.

You deny science. You are not having a scientific discussion.
sealover wrote:
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

You don't know how to measure pH. You don't even know what it is.
sealover wrote:
The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

It is not possible to measure the the pH of the oceans. Water is a buffer.
sealover wrote:
But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Carbon does not need to be 'sequestered'. Carbon exists naturally in the soil. Your 'work' is not science.
sealover wrote:
Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands,

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

You are not an 'expert'. You are a quack. You are a nothing.
sealover wrote:
After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta.

You make shit up.
sealover wrote:
Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.

It is not possible to acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios,

Climate cannot change. There is no 'scenario'.
sealover wrote:
atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline.

Carbon is not in the atmosphere (except as soot and particulates), easily washed out with the next rain.
sealover wrote:
Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow,

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Fossils don't burn.
sealover wrote:
ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves,

There is no such thing as 'environmental chemotherapy'. Alkalinity is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Why would you want to? Do you like throwing rocks into the ocean???
sealover wrote:
Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Alkalinity is not a chemical. Water is not a submarine.
sealover wrote:
Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate cannot be reduced or oxidized. Carbon is not an alkaline. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not carbon dioxide.
sealover wrote:
If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

Geoengineering is not science. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate is not a chemical.


Everything that has mass is a chemical


The scientific genius of Swan.

"Everything that has mass is a chemical."

Photons are now chemicals.

Neutrinos are now chemicals.

Dark matter, anyone? It's mass makes it a chemical now.

The universe of what is a chemical just expanded dramatically.
25-03-2025 16:51
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(7873)
Im a BM wrote:
Swan wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
The scientific genius of Into the Night.

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Is there a word you don't like?

Just get rid of the damn thing!

Declare it to be a meaningless "buzzword".

There is NO SUCH THING!

Good. No we don't have to deal with the possibility that it means something.

"You deny science". Indeed, you do!

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Good! By repeating the sentence it gains more authority.

Deny that an entire field of science even exists!

"Water is a buffer." According to the chemistry textbook of fantasyland.

"Carbonate is not a chemical".

Actually, carbonate ion IS a chemical. Dilution does not "buffer" sea water against pH change. Carbonate ion is a chemical that certainly DOES buffer against pH change upon addition of acid.

Into the Night wrote:

"Carbonate is not a chemical". Good. Repeat that sentence FIVE TIMES.

And finally we get into the REAL chemistry.

Something is NOT something else, damnit!

"Water is not a submarine".

The scientific genius of Into the Night.

Only a truly accomplished chemist with real world training in actual science would know how important it is to point out that "water is not a submarine".

If anyone actually has the patience to read it, this Into the Night post offers many more examples of something that is NOT something else.

That is how a scientific genius earns the right to say:

"You are not an expert. You are a quack. You are a nothing."

Of course, the BEST Into the Night quote spells it out most clearly.

"You are describing yourself."

You cannot acidify "an alkaline" because "carbonate is not a chemical" and "you make shit up."

Who could ever doubt that Into the Night is the legitimate "chemist". whereas I am merely a "quack"?

He certainly repeats the same sentence enough times to make it true.



sealover wrote:
<--- Click on "sealover" (to the left of the arrow)

This will open the "sealover" profile page. The "Last 10 posts:" shows ten biogeochemistry related threads. Any of them can be opened with a click.
The first post on page 1 of this thread is by "sealover", to open profile page.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
In a perfect world, this thread would have been a place of scientific discussion.

You deny science. You are not having a scientific discussion.
sealover wrote:
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

You don't know how to measure pH. You don't even know what it is.
sealover wrote:
The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

It is not possible to measure the the pH of the oceans. Water is a buffer.
sealover wrote:
But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Carbon does not need to be 'sequestered'. Carbon exists naturally in the soil. Your 'work' is not science.
sealover wrote:
Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands,

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

You are not an 'expert'. You are a quack. You are a nothing.
sealover wrote:
After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta.

You make shit up.
sealover wrote:
Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.

It is not possible to acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios,

Climate cannot change. There is no 'scenario'.
sealover wrote:
atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline.

Carbon is not in the atmosphere (except as soot and particulates), easily washed out with the next rain.
sealover wrote:
Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow,

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Fossils don't burn.
sealover wrote:
ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves,

There is no such thing as 'environmental chemotherapy'. Alkalinity is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Why would you want to? Do you like throwing rocks into the ocean???
sealover wrote:
Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Alkalinity is not a chemical. Water is not a submarine.
sealover wrote:
Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate cannot be reduced or oxidized. Carbon is not an alkaline. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not carbon dioxide.
sealover wrote:
If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

Geoengineering is not science. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate is not a chemical.


Everything that has mass is a chemical


The scientific genius of Swan.

"Everything that has mass is a chemical."

Photons are now chemicals.

Neutrinos are now chemicals.

Dark matter, anyone? It's mass makes it a chemical now.

The universe of what is a chemical just expanded dramatically.


Dark matter is a delusion held by fools that claim that 99% of the universe is missing, delusions have no mass as they are electrical signals in the brain. As far as everything and every combination of things on the periodic table, yes they are all chemicals.


IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD.

According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC

This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA

So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic?


Sonia makes me so proud to be a dumb white boy


Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
25-03-2025 21:02
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Swan wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
Swan wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
The scientific genius of Into the Night.

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Is there a word you don't like?

Just get rid of the damn thing!

Declare it to be a meaningless "buzzword".

There is NO SUCH THING!

Good. No we don't have to deal with the possibility that it means something.

"You deny science". Indeed, you do!

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Good! By repeating the sentence it gains more authority.

Deny that an entire field of science even exists!

"Water is a buffer." According to the chemistry textbook of fantasyland.

"Carbonate is not a chemical".

Actually, carbonate ion IS a chemical. Dilution does not "buffer" sea water against pH change. Carbonate ion is a chemical that certainly DOES buffer against pH change upon addition of acid.

Into the Night wrote:

"Carbonate is not a chemical". Good. Repeat that sentence FIVE TIMES.

And finally we get into the REAL chemistry.

Something is NOT something else, damnit!

"Water is not a submarine".

The scientific genius of Into the Night.

Only a truly accomplished chemist with real world training in actual science would know how important it is to point out that "water is not a submarine".

If anyone actually has the patience to read it, this Into the Night post offers many more examples of something that is NOT something else.

That is how a scientific genius earns the right to say:

"You are not an expert. You are a quack. You are a nothing."

Of course, the BEST Into the Night quote spells it out most clearly.

"You are describing yourself."

You cannot acidify "an alkaline" because "carbonate is not a chemical" and "you make shit up."

Who could ever doubt that Into the Night is the legitimate "chemist". whereas I am merely a "quack"?

He certainly repeats the same sentence enough times to make it true.



sealover wrote:
<--- Click on "sealover" (to the left of the arrow)

This will open the "sealover" profile page. The "Last 10 posts:" shows ten biogeochemistry related threads. Any of them can be opened with a click.
The first post on page 1 of this thread is by "sealover", to open profile page.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
In a perfect world, this thread would have been a place of scientific discussion.

You deny science. You are not having a scientific discussion.
sealover wrote:
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

You don't know how to measure pH. You don't even know what it is.
sealover wrote:
The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

It is not possible to measure the the pH of the oceans. Water is a buffer.
sealover wrote:
But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Carbon does not need to be 'sequestered'. Carbon exists naturally in the soil. Your 'work' is not science.
sealover wrote:
Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands,

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

You are not an 'expert'. You are a quack. You are a nothing.
sealover wrote:
After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta.

You make shit up.
sealover wrote:
Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.

It is not possible to acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios,

Climate cannot change. There is no 'scenario'.
sealover wrote:
atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline.

Carbon is not in the atmosphere (except as soot and particulates), easily washed out with the next rain.
sealover wrote:
Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow,

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Fossils don't burn.
sealover wrote:
ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves,

There is no such thing as 'environmental chemotherapy'. Alkalinity is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Why would you want to? Do you like throwing rocks into the ocean???
sealover wrote:
Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Alkalinity is not a chemical. Water is not a submarine.
sealover wrote:
Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate cannot be reduced or oxidized. Carbon is not an alkaline. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not carbon dioxide.
sealover wrote:
If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

Geoengineering is not science. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate is not a chemical.


Everything that has mass is a chemical


The scientific genius of Swan.

"Everything that has mass is a chemical."

Photons are now chemicals.

Neutrinos are now chemicals.

Dark matter, anyone? It's mass makes it a chemical now.

The universe of what is a chemical just expanded dramatically.


Dark matter is a delusion held by fools that claim that 99% of the universe is missing, delusions have no mass as they are electrical signals in the brain. As far as everything and every combination of things on the periodic table, yes they are all chemicals.


Climate denialists have every right to refuse to believe in anthropogenic global warming.

Swan, you have every right to refuse to believe in dark matter.

Your definition of EVERYTHING that has mass being a "chemical" is very sweeping, including far more than just dark matter.

Electrons may only weigh about 1/2000 the mass of a proton, but they still have mass. Therefore, electrons are now "chemicals".

Heck, even cosmic rays are chemicals now.

You can learn "science" at climate-debate.com that they don't teach ANYWHERE else.

"Everything that has mass is a chemical."

Just another example of the scientific genius of Swan.
27-03-2025 20:46
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Defending Swan's right to freedom of religion.

Nobody should be FORCED to believe in dark matter.

Nobody should be forced to believe the scientists about climate change.

Freedom of religion includes the right to be a devoted cult member in the Church of Thermodenial.

Freedom of religion includes the right to "SB law" dogma as a belief system.

Personally, I try to waste as little time as possible trying to convince someone to understand something they are simply unwilling to believe.

There are plenty of others who are NOT scientifically illiterate and committed to a dogma of disbelief.

I have no right to any grievance, simply because someone is unwilling to see.

I suppose that if any of the trolls were in a position of power to DO anything, I would be more concerned about their inability and unwillingness to understand.

Swan wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
Swan wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
The scientific genius of Into the Night.

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Is there a word you don't like?

Just get rid of the damn thing!

Declare it to be a meaningless "buzzword".

There is NO SUCH THING!

Good. No we don't have to deal with the possibility that it means something.

"You deny science". Indeed, you do!

"No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'".

Good! By repeating the sentence it gains more authority.

Deny that an entire field of science even exists!

"Water is a buffer." According to the chemistry textbook of fantasyland.

"Carbonate is not a chemical".

Actually, carbonate ion IS a chemical. Dilution does not "buffer" sea water against pH change. Carbonate ion is a chemical that certainly DOES buffer against pH change upon addition of acid.

Into the Night wrote:

"Carbonate is not a chemical". Good. Repeat that sentence FIVE TIMES.

And finally we get into the REAL chemistry.

Something is NOT something else, damnit!

"Water is not a submarine".

The scientific genius of Into the Night.

Only a truly accomplished chemist with real world training in actual science would know how important it is to point out that "water is not a submarine".

If anyone actually has the patience to read it, this Into the Night post offers many more examples of something that is NOT something else.

That is how a scientific genius earns the right to say:

"You are not an expert. You are a quack. You are a nothing."

Of course, the BEST Into the Night quote spells it out most clearly.

"You are describing yourself."

You cannot acidify "an alkaline" because "carbonate is not a chemical" and "you make shit up."

Who could ever doubt that Into the Night is the legitimate "chemist". whereas I am merely a "quack"?

He certainly repeats the same sentence enough times to make it true.



sealover wrote:
<--- Click on "sealover" (to the left of the arrow)

This will open the "sealover" profile page. The "Last 10 posts:" shows ten biogeochemistry related threads. Any of them can be opened with a click.
The first post on page 1 of this thread is by "sealover", to open profile page.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
In a perfect world, this thread would have been a place of scientific discussion.

You deny science. You are not having a scientific discussion.
sealover wrote:
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

You don't know how to measure pH. You don't even know what it is.
sealover wrote:
The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

It is not possible to measure the the pH of the oceans. Water is a buffer.
sealover wrote:
But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water.

Carbonate is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Carbonate is not a chemical. Shellfish have no problem building their shells.
sealover wrote:
Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Carbon does not need to be 'sequestered'. Carbon exists naturally in the soil. Your 'work' is not science.
sealover wrote:
Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands,

No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.
sealover wrote:
I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

You are not an 'expert'. You are a quack. You are a nothing.
sealover wrote:
After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta.

You make shit up.
sealover wrote:
Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.

It is not possible to acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios,

Climate cannot change. There is no 'scenario'.
sealover wrote:
atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline.

Carbon is not in the atmosphere (except as soot and particulates), easily washed out with the next rain.
sealover wrote:
Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow,

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Fossils don't burn.
sealover wrote:
ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

You can't acidify an alkaline.
sealover wrote:
Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves,

There is no such thing as 'environmental chemotherapy'. Alkalinity is not a chemical.
sealover wrote:
dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Why would you want to? Do you like throwing rocks into the ocean???
sealover wrote:
Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Alkalinity is not a chemical. Water is not a submarine.
sealover wrote:
Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

Sulfate is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate cannot be reduced or oxidized. Carbon is not an alkaline. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not carbon dioxide.
sealover wrote:
If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

Geoengineering is not science. Alkalinity is not a chemical. Carbon is not organic. Sulfate is not a chemical.


Everything that has mass is a chemical


The scientific genius of Swan.

"Everything that has mass is a chemical."

Photons are now chemicals.

Neutrinos are now chemicals.

Dark matter, anyone? It's mass makes it a chemical now.

The universe of what is a chemical just expanded dramatically.


Dark matter is a delusion held by fools that claim that 99% of the universe is missing, delusions have no mass as they are electrical signals in the brain. As far as everything and every combination of things on the periodic table, yes they are all chemicals.


Climate denialists have every right to refuse to believe in anthropogenic global warming.

Swan, you have every right to refuse to believe in dark matter.

Your definition of EVERYTHING that has mass being a "chemical" is very sweeping, including far more than just dark matter.

Electrons may only weigh about 1/2000 the mass of a proton, but they still have mass. Therefore, electrons are now "chemicals".

Heck, even cosmic rays are chemicals now.

You can learn "science" at climate-debate.com that they don't teach ANYWHERE else.

"Everything that has mass is a chemical."

Just another example of the scientific genius of Swan.
29-03-2025 01:06
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.

The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water. Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands, I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta. Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.


------------------------------------------------- 

Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios, atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline. Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow, ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves, dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

The most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning at the top of page 10
02-04-2025 00:24
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.


Beavers provide us with an excellent model for what we humans can do to engineer ecosystems, with the result being increased export of alkalinity from upland watersheds in groundwater and surface water flowing to the sea.

This "alkalinity" is in the form of carbonate ions, CO3(2-) and bicarbonate ions HCO3-

These inorganic carbon anions buffer against pH change upon addition of acid.

H+ + CO3(2-) = HCO3-

H+ + HCO3- = H2CO3


The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water. Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands, I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta. Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.


------------------------------------------------- 

Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios, atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline. Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow, ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves, dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

The most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning at the top of page 10
04-04-2025 22:57
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Applied biogeochemistry to mitigate ocean acidification.


Beavers provide us with an excellent model for what we humans can do to engineer ecosystems, with the result being increased export of alkalinity from upland watersheds in groundwater and surface water flowing to the sea.

This "alkalinity" is in the form of carbonate ions, CO3(2-) and bicarbonate ions HCO3-

These inorganic carbon anions buffer against pH change upon addition of acid.

H+ + CO3(2-) = HCO3-

H+ + HCO3- = H2CO3


The problem with ocean acidification isn't the slight decline in pH.

The ocean has been able to buffer the pH change.

But using up that buffering capacity has come at the cost of reducing the concentration of carbonate ion in sea water.

Many marine organisms require carbonate ion to form calcium carbonate shell.

The deficiency of carbonate ion has had many adverse impacts, including the fact that commercial shell fish rookeries must purchase carbonate to add to the sea water. Otherwise, sea water no longer contains enough bioavailable carbonate ion for healthy larval shell development.

Regarding carbon sequestration and nitrous oxide emission in upland ecosystems, I can reference my own publications and the work of others since who have cited them.

Regarding the biogeochemistry of groundwater in coastal wetlands, I could only reference my own technical memorandums, base closure investigations, environmental permitting reports, or expert witness testimony in water-quality-related lawsuits.

After leaving academic research, I worked as a private sector consultant, doing extensive water quality investigations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin delta. Those investigations provide significant insight into how land management practices influence ocean acidification, and could be applied deliberately for significant mitigation.


------------------------------------------------- 

Even under the best-case climate change mitigation scenarios, atmospheric concentrations of carbon will only gradually decline. Even if we cease all fossil fuel combustion tomorrow, ocean "acidification" (i.e. depletion of alkalinity) would continue to get worse for decades to come.

Direct human intervention to perform environmental chemotherapy and provide exogenous alkalinity to the sea by ourselves, dumping gigatons of lime or grinding up gigatons of rocks to transport and distribute to the sea is a non-starter. It is simply not humanly possible to provide the quantities required.

Coastal wetlands are the major source of new alkalinity entering many marine ecosystems, as submarine groundwater discharge.

Under the low oxygen conditions of wetland soil, bacteria use sulfate as oxidant to oxidize organic carbon and acquire energy. Sulfate reduction by bacteria generates inorganic carbon alkalinity rather than carbon dioxide as the oxidized carbon product.

If anyone is curious, there are three distinctly different geoengineering approaches that could be applied to increase the generation of alkalinity for the sea through oxidation of wetland sediment organic carbon via microbial sulfate reduction.

The most relevant posts of this thread are compiled, beginning at the top of page 10
04-04-2025 23:58
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Iron Reducers and the Hazards of Environmental Chemotherapy

Iron reducing bacteria can inadvertently release arsenic into groundwater via reductive dissolution of ferric-iron-bound arsenic.

Under low oxygen conditions, and in the presence of digestible organic carbon, iron reducing bacteria use ferric iron as terminal electron acceptor to oxidize organic carbon for metabolic energy.

There is usually not enough digestible organic carbon available in groundwater for iron reducing bacteria to use on a scale that releases much arsenic.

Once upon a time, environmental regulators were so concerned about the water quality that they mandated environmental chemotherapy in a large area used to store dredged sediments.

The mandate was for "pH adjustment". The megatons of dredged sediments needed to have their pH adjusted to be between 6.5 and 7.5. Neutral is nice.

They didn't like the fact that dredged sediments do what all wetland sediments do when they are drained and exposed to oxygen. Like the millions and millions of hectares of "acid sulfate" soils that have formed where humans drained wetlands for agriculture, the dredge spoils become acidic.

Like those acid sulfate soils in the world's most productive agricultural land, the dredge spoils develop pH below 5.

At pH 5, it is technically "acidic" and the regulators became convinced that this means the dredge spoils must be poisoning the groundwater with toxic metals.

In compliance with the mandated environmental chemotherapy, the dredge spoil pH was "adjusted" with beet lime, calcium carbonate, CaCO3.

It failed to get the dredged sediment pH to rise anywhere near the required pH between 6.5 and 7.5

It DID succeed at changing the concentration of toxic metals in the groundwater.

Arsenic concentrations increased by 500%.

Without a whole lot of digestible dissolved organic carbon coming in, the iron reducers weren't releasing a lot of ferric-iron bound arsenic into groundwater.

The beet lime certainly raised the pH of the organic matter it came into immediate contact with. Didn't make a dent in overall sediment pile pH, but the microsite effect of higher pH at the point of contact made the organic matter MUCH more soluble.

So, the next time it rained enough for a water column to push down into groundwater, it was LOADED with easily digestible dissolved organic carbon.

The iron reducing bacteria had a feeding frenzy and dissolved a bunch of arsenic in the process.

Environmental therapy to accomplish pH adjustment has been attempted on a much larger scale and proved to have very similar pitfalls.

In response to "acid rain" damage to forests in Europe, large areas had lime, calcium carbonate, dropped down onto them from the sky.

One of the adverse impacts of this pH adjustment environmental chemotherapy was that entire watersheds doubled the amount of dissolved organic carbon flowing out in surface waters. The solubility of organic matter is pH dependent.

The solubility of many toxic metals is controlled more by dissolved organic carbon than it is by pH.

In theory, raising the pH from 5 to 7 reduces the solubility of a transition metal, such as aluminum. In actual practice, taking an aluminum-rich forest soil with pH 5, and adjusting its pH to 7 will cause a huge INCREASE in the amount of aluminum dissolved in the soil water.

By increasing the solubility of organic matter, raising the pH increased the quantity of metal-complexing organic acids in solution. Aluminum that was not otherwise soluble, even at pH 5, gets caught up into organometallic complexes and goes into solution. The result is a lot more aluminum dissolved at the higher pH.

Which takes us back to the environmental chemotherapy performed on dredge spoils. Higher concentrations of dissolved organic carbon going down into groundwater brought about high concentrations of arsenic. That was because the organic carbon was used as food for iron reducers.

However, that same environmental chemotherapy experiment also increased the concentrations of several potentially toxic transition metals in groundwater.

Nickel, for example. The dissolved organic carbon chelated the nickel. No role of any microorganisms. Simply the fact that higher pH meant more dissolved organic carbon to act as metal complexing agents to chelate nickel.
Edited on 05-04-2025 00:03
05-04-2025 02:21
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Manganese Reducers and the Hazards of Environmental Chemotherapy

Manganese reducing bacteria can inadvertently bring about abiotic oxidation of trivalent chromium to hexavalent chromium.

This problem can be aggravated with environmental chemotherapy.

The very same prescription that temporarily decreases concentrations of hexavalent chromium - the application of a strong chemical reductant - ensures that there will be more manganese(II) available to help create more hexavalent chromium later.


This thread present information about the use of constructed wetlands to generate alkalinity in effluent waters.

This is a proven technology with a more than 50 year track record of success.

Constructed wetlands are an effective way to remediate acid mine discharge.

This qualifies as "geoengineering".

The objective of making more alkalinity enter the sea, primarily as submarine groundwater discharge also qualifies as "environmental chemotherapy"

As a gross generalization, environmental chemotherapy experiments are a lot more likely to do harm than good. Trial and error of these efforts tends to produce a lot of errors.


Environmental chemotherapy to remediate hexavalent chromium has a mixed record, at best.

Imagine an old laboratory where they used to dump a lot of chemicals down the drain. Those lab drains all went to a septic tank. Septic tank effluent went out into a leaching field. Some of that water, and all the chemicals it contained found its way into subsurface flow paths.

Year after year they put organic carbon compounds into the septic tank, as laboratory or restroom waste. Year after year, some of this organic carbon was arrested along the way and attached to soil particles along a subsurface flow path. It accumulated a nice coating of humic materials which had a lot of cation exchange capacity.

One of the chemicals they used to dump down the drain was hexavalent chromium. Labs used to use the stuff for a wide variety of application. That hexavalent chromium went into the septic tank. Then it went into the leaching field. And then some of it went down along subsurface flow paths, where it attached itself to the humic coatings on the surfaces all around.

It didn't remain for long in the chemical form of hexavalent chromium. The adsorbed hex chrome soon enough got reduced to trivalent chromium. This benign chemical then remained as part of the solid phase organometallic complex. Trivalent chromium bound up in humic material. No problem.

They stopped using the septic tank and got the lab connected to a sewer line.

No longer were the subsurface flow paths constantly being supplied with fresh organic carbon. Organic matter decayed faster than it was replaced. The trivalent chromium adsorbed along the flow paths was losing its solid matrix to remain bound in.

But the trivalent chromium wasn't alone. Also bound up in the humic coatings was a generous supply of adsorbed manganese(II), Mn2+, ions attached to cation exchange sites. As the matrix around it decomposed, this manganese(II) was present along with the trivalent chromium. When the humic matrix fully decomposed, both the trivalent chromium and manganese(II) were released into solution, in the presence of oxygen.

Manganese oxidizing bacteria couldn't resist the feast that had become available. They used oxygen to transform manganese(II) into manganese(IV), along with some metabolic energy from the oxidation reaction.

Unfortunately, there is a highly oxidized manganese by product in the reaction. A tiny fraction of the manganese gets oxidized all the way to manganese(VII), a very powerful terminal electron acceptor. A strong enough oxidant to abiotically oxidize trivalent chromium into hexavalent chromium.

Now they had newly-formed hexavalent chromium in the ground water. Created by a perfectly natural process.

Bring on the chemotherapy!

A powerful chemical reductant, calcium polysulfide, was introduced.

It did the job, reducing hexavalent chromium to trivalent chromium.

It also reduced a lot of manganese(IV) into manganese(II) while it was at it.

Hex chrome is gone, but now you have a lot of manganese(II)

Manganese(II) readily oxidizes back to manganese(IV) if the manganese oxidizers get half a chance, in the presence of oxygen.

And next time a bunch of manganese(II) gets oxidized, it can produce more manganese(VII) by product which can abiotically oxidize the chromium back to hexavalent chromium.

Does this create an addiction now to chemotherapy?

They can keep the hex chrome in check, if the continue to apply more calcium polysulfide every year.

If they asked for my advice, I'd tell them to switch it up with a new prescription.

Start putting molasses or brewery waste at a higher elevation in the system.

Let all that organic carbon reestablish the humic coatings that kept the trivalent chromium safely trapped where it could not be transformed into hex chrome.

Even if the organic food added to the system facilitates manganese reduction to increase the supply of Mn2+, the trivalent chromium will not be accessible for oxidation when the manganese gets oxidized.
Edited on 05-04-2025 02:28
05-04-2025 03:29
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Manganese Reducers and the Hazards of Environmental Chemotherapy

Manganese reducing bacteria can inadvertently bring about abiotic oxidation of trivalent chromium to hexavalent chromium.

This problem can be aggravated with environmental chemotherapy.

The very same prescription that temporarily decreases concentrations of hexavalent chromium - the application of a strong chemical reductant - ensures that there will be more manganese(II) available to help create more hexavalent chromium later.


This thread present information about the use of constructed wetlands to generate alkalinity in effluent waters.

This is a proven technology with a more than 50 year track record of success.

Constructed wetlands are an effective way to remediate acid mine discharge.

This qualifies as "geoengineering".

The objective of making more alkalinity enter the sea, primarily as submarine groundwater discharge also qualifies as "environmental chemotherapy"

As a gross generalization, environmental chemotherapy experiments are a lot more likely to do harm than good. Trial and error of these efforts tends to produce a lot of errors.


Environmental chemotherapy to remediate hexavalent chromium has a mixed record, at best.

Imagine an old laboratory where they used to dump a lot of chemicals down the drain. Those lab drains all went to a septic tank. Septic tank effluent went out into a leaching field. Some of that water, and all the chemicals it contained found its way into subsurface flow paths.

Year after year they put organic carbon compounds into the septic tank, as laboratory or restroom waste. Year after year, some of this organic carbon was arrested along the way and attached to soil particles along a subsurface flow path. It accumulated a nice coating of humic materials which had a lot of cation exchange capacity.

One of the chemicals they used to dump down the drain was hexavalent chromium. Labs used to use the stuff for a wide variety of application. That hexavalent chromium went into the septic tank. Then it went into the leaching field. And then some of it went down along subsurface flow paths, where it attached itself to the humic coatings on the surfaces all around.

It didn't remain for long in the chemical form of hexavalent chromium. The adsorbed hex chrome soon enough got reduced to trivalent chromium. This benign chemical then remained as part of the solid phase organometallic complex. Trivalent chromium bound up in humic material. No problem.

They stopped using the septic tank and got the lab connected to a sewer line.

No longer were the subsurface flow paths constantly being supplied with fresh organic carbon. Organic matter decayed faster than it was replaced. The trivalent chromium adsorbed along the flow paths was losing its solid matrix to remain bound in.

But the trivalent chromium wasn't alone. Also bound up in the humic coatings was a generous supply of adsorbed manganese(II), Mn2+, ions attached to cation exchange sites. As the matrix around it decomposed, this manganese(II) was present along with the trivalent chromium. When the humic matrix fully decomposed, both the trivalent chromium and manganese(II) were released into solution, in the presence of oxygen.

Manganese oxidizing bacteria couldn't resist the feast that had become available. They used oxygen to transform manganese(II) into manganese(IV), along with some metabolic energy from the oxidation reaction.

Unfortunately, there is a highly oxidized manganese by product in the reaction. A tiny fraction of the manganese gets oxidized all the way to manganese(VII), a very powerful terminal electron acceptor. A strong enough oxidant to abiotically oxidize trivalent chromium into hexavalent chromium.

Now they had newly-formed hexavalent chromium in the ground water. Created by a perfectly natural process.

Bring on the chemotherapy!

A powerful chemical reductant, calcium polysulfide, was introduced.

It did the job, reducing hexavalent chromium to trivalent chromium.

It also reduced a lot of manganese(IV) into manganese(II) while it was at it.

Hex chrome is gone, but now you have a lot of manganese(II)

Manganese(II) readily oxidizes back to manganese(IV) if the manganese oxidizers get half a chance, in the presence of oxygen.

And next time a bunch of manganese(II) gets oxidized, it can produce more manganese(VII) by product which can abiotically oxidize the chromium back to hexavalent chromium.

Does this create an addiction now to chemotherapy?

They can keep the hex chrome in check, if the continue to apply more calcium polysulfide every year.

If they asked for my advice, I'd tell them to switch it up with a new prescription.

Start putting molasses or brewery waste at a higher elevation in the system.

Let all that organic carbon reestablish the humic coatings that kept the trivalent chromium safely trapped where it could not be transformed into hex chrome.

Even if the organic food added to the system facilitates manganese reduction to increase the supply of Mn2+, the trivalent chromium will not be accessible for oxidation when the manganese gets oxidized.

SULFIDE OXIDIZERS MAKE SULFURIC ACID

If they were to switch to adding organic matter, rather than polysulfide, as the prescription for chemotherapy to remediate hexavalent chromium, there is another pitfall of the treatment that will no longer be a problem.

Sure, polysulfide is a strong reductant for both chromium and manganese.

But in the presence of oxygen, bacteria will oxidized the sulfide into sulfuric acid.

Each time they put in more polysulfide, they further acidify the system they are treating with the sulfuric acid formed from sulfide oxidation.

Perhaps they already account for this, and are also performing "pH adjustment"
to neutralize the sulfuric acid created in the process.
05-04-2025 04:34
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
FULL DISCLOSURE: I am sleep deprived and a bit manic as I compile this thread, attempting to draw upon the most interesting new things I came across in my career as a biogeochemist. It's time to take a break. I reposted the same mistake. It is NOT manganese reducers, but rather the manganese OXIDIZERS that also end up oxidizing trivalent chromium.


Manganese OXIDIZERS and the Hazards of Environmental Chemotherapy

Manganese OXIDIZING bacteria can inadvertently bring about abiotic oxidation of trivalent chromium to hexavalent chromium.

This problem can be aggravated with environmental chemotherapy.

The very same prescription that temporarily decreases concentrations of hexavalent chromium - the application of a strong chemical reductant - ensures that there will be more manganese(II) available to help create more hexavalent chromium later.


This thread present information about the use of constructed wetlands to generate alkalinity in effluent waters.

This is a proven technology with a more than 50 year track record of success.

Constructed wetlands are an effective way to remediate acid mine discharge.

This qualifies as "geoengineering".

The objective of making more alkalinity enter the sea, primarily as submarine groundwater discharge also qualifies as "environmental chemotherapy"

As a gross generalization, environmental chemotherapy experiments are a lot more likely to do harm than good. Trial and error of these efforts tends to produce a lot of errors.


Environmental chemotherapy to remediate hexavalent chromium has a mixed record, at best.

Imagine an old laboratory where they used to dump a lot of chemicals down the drain. Those lab drains all went to a septic tank. Septic tank effluent went out into a leaching field. Some of that water, and all the chemicals it contained found its way into subsurface flow paths.

Year after year they put organic carbon compounds into the septic tank, as laboratory or restroom waste. Year after year, some of this organic carbon was arrested along the way and attached to soil particles along a subsurface flow path. It accumulated a nice coating of humic materials which had a lot of cation exchange capacity.

One of the chemicals they used to dump down the drain was hexavalent chromium. Labs used to use the stuff for a wide variety of application. That hexavalent chromium went into the septic tank. Then it went into the leaching field. And then some of it went down along subsurface flow paths, where it attached itself to the humic coatings on the surfaces all around.

It didn't remain for long in the chemical form of hexavalent chromium. The adsorbed hex chrome soon enough got reduced to trivalent chromium. This benign chemical then remained as part of the solid phase organometallic complex. Trivalent chromium bound up in humic material. No problem.

They stopped using the septic tank and got the lab connected to a sewer line.

No longer were the subsurface flow paths constantly being supplied with fresh organic carbon. Organic matter decayed faster than it was replaced. The trivalent chromium adsorbed along the flow paths was losing its solid matrix to remain bound in.

But the trivalent chromium wasn't alone. Also bound up in the humic coatings was a generous supply of adsorbed manganese(II), Mn2+, ions attached to cation exchange sites. As the matrix around it decomposed, this manganese(II) was present along with the trivalent chromium. When the humic matrix fully decomposed, both the trivalent chromium and manganese(II) were released into solution, in the presence of oxygen.

Manganese oxidizing bacteria couldn't resist the feast that had become available. They used oxygen to transform manganese(II) into manganese(IV), along with some metabolic energy from the oxidation reaction.

Unfortunately, there is a highly oxidized manganese by product in the reaction. A tiny fraction of the manganese gets oxidized all the way to manganese(VII), a very powerful terminal electron acceptor. A strong enough oxidant to abiotically oxidize trivalent chromium into hexavalent chromium.

Now they had newly-formed hexavalent chromium in the ground water. Created by a perfectly natural process.

Bring on the chemotherapy!

A powerful chemical reductant, calcium polysulfide, was introduced.

It did the job, reducing hexavalent chromium to trivalent chromium.

It also reduced a lot of manganese(IV) into manganese(II) while it was at it.

Hex chrome is gone, but now you have a lot of manganese(II)

Manganese(II) readily oxidizes back to manganese(IV) if the manganese oxidizers get half a chance, in the presence of oxygen.

And next time a bunch of manganese(II) gets oxidized, it can produce more manganese(VII) by product which can abiotically oxidize the chromium back to hexavalent chromium.

Does this create an addiction now to chemotherapy?

They can keep the hex chrome in check, if the continue to apply more calcium polysulfide every year.

If they asked for my advice, I'd tell them to switch it up with a new prescription.

Start putting molasses or brewery waste at a higher elevation in the system.

Let all that organic carbon reestablish the humic coatings that kept the trivalent chromium safely trapped where it could not be transformed into hex chrome.

Even if the organic food added to the system facilitates manganese reduction to increase the supply of Mn2+, the trivalent chromium will not be accessible for oxidation when the manganese gets oxidized.

SULFIDE OXIDIZERS MAKE SULFURIC ACID

If they were to switch to adding organic matter, rather than polysulfide, as the prescription for chemotherapy to remediate hexavalent chromium, there is another pitfall of the treatment that will no longer be a problem.

Sure, polysulfide is a strong reductant for both chromium and manganese.

But in the presence of oxygen, bacteria will oxidized the sulfide into sulfuric acid.

Each time they put in more polysulfide, they further acidify the system they are treating with the sulfuric acid formed from sulfide oxidation.

Perhaps they already account for this, and are also performing "pH adjustment"
to neutralize the sulfuric acid created in the process.
06-04-2025 21:55
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Geoengineering to acquire alkalinity for the sea from carbon stored in wetlands can be done offshore.

The waterlogged, low oxygen soil conditions of wetlands prevent aerobic oxidation of organic matter by micro organisms. Dead organic matter in the wetland soil has centuries long residence time. Centuries of peat accumulation and carbon rich sediment can pile up to great depth.

Rising sea level has submerged large areas of coastal wetlands. These submerged lands no longer support wetland photosynthesis to sequester carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. They no longer pile up new organic matter. They no longer discharge alkalinity to the sea from groundwater flows.

However, these areas are still an enormous reservoir of organic carbon stored in shallow sediments just below the surface of the sea. These deposits of pre-fossil fuel (i.e. wetland soil carbon not yet transformed by the earth into coal) contain many, many gigatons of stored organic carbon.

Offshore drilling of these pre-fossil fuel deposits could enable their exploitation as a nearly limitless source of alkalinity for the sea. Sea water could be pumped into the underlying sediments under pressure. This will drive sulfate in to the low oxygen, carbon rich sediment. Sulfate reduction will generate alkalinity which would be driven out into the sea as submarine groundwater discharge to marine ecosystems. Sufficient alkalinity for the sea could be generated long before the pre-fossil fuel runs out.
06-04-2025 21:56
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
One geoengineering approach to use coastal wetlands to generate alkalinity for the sea would also sequester atmospheric carbon dioxide.

Coastal deserts could be farmed for alkalinity by pumping sea water into them.

Constructed wetlands have been employed for more than 50 years to neutralize acid mine drainage. Constructed saltwater wetlands could use the same biogeochemical mechanisms to neutralize ocean acidification.

It could be as simple as a low earthen dam across a dry river outlet. Wind-driven or sea-wave powered pumps could give sea water the slight lift uphill. As the water drains back to the sea, it carries the alkalinity acquired from sulfate reduction in the low oxygen sediment.

Continuous pumping of sea water in would balance with continuous drainage and evaporation to establish a steady state of hypersalinity in the constructed, upland saltwater wetland. A high enough rate of continuous sea water input could establish a steady state of only slightly elevated salinity, tolerable for aquaculture.

The resources are already available on site at little or no cost. Unproductive land could be transformed into a sink to sequester atmospheric carbon dioxide, as well as a source of new alkalinity for the sea.[/quote]


A word of caution about coastal desert chemistry.

You won't have to wait for the live wetland ecosystem to establish before you'll generate a whole lot of alkalinity.

Rewetting a dry desert soil with sea water could result in extremely high initial pH. A toxic witch's brew will be the immediate result, although capable of rapid self attenuation. An exceptionally high pH initial mix could contain toxic concentrations of arsenic, boron, selenium, even hexavalent chromium (of natural origin).

Within seconds of initial contact between the dry desert soil and applied sea water, the soil becomes a high pH chemical trap for CO2.

The pH will decline soon as alkali hydroxides absorb CO2 to become carbonates.

Self attenuation with decreasing pH as CO2 is absorbed will soon sequester arsenic, borate, etc. out of solution.
06-04-2025 21:57
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Hopefully, it does not cause too much confusion that "sea water" and "sulfate" are interchangeable as a name for the input of sulfate bearing sea water into low oxygen wetland sediment.

Sea water contains from 2650-2690 ppm sulfate.

In contrast, sea water contains from 8-11 ppm oxygen.

The energy yield for microorganisms who make their living oxidizing organic carbon is greatest when oxygen is used as oxidant (aerobic respiration).

Aerobic respiration of (reduced) organic carbon generates carbon dioxide as the (oxidized) inorganic carbon product.

Much lower energy yield is acquired when sulfate is used by bacteria to oxidize organic carbon. Sulfate reduction generates alkalinity as the (oxidized) inorganic carbon product.

At only 8-11 ppm, oxygen gets depleted very quickly in carbon rich sediment.

With 2650-2950 ppm sulfate remaining when the oxygen runs out, the next best available oxidant is most abundant, albeit for a much smaller energy yield.

One mole of organic carbon generates two moles of alkalinity when sulfate is used as oxidant by sulfate reducing bacteria.
06-04-2025 21:59
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Naturally-occurring hexavalent chromium can be found beneath desert soils. It is usually limited to the margins where the last inputs of groundwater dried up
as it became desert.

Hexavalent chromium is not our friend.

Trivalent chromium is common in many soils. It is benign, and not easily transformed into the carcinogenic hexavalent form.

The overwhelming majority of chromium in desert soil is trivalent Cr(III) occluded within the crystal lattice of rock minerals. A small amount of chromium(III) is present in material coating the surface of larger particles.

Before becoming desert, photosynthesis once provided the soil with organic carbon. The most enduring fraction of that soil organic matter were humic acids coating soil particle surfaces. Humic acids have cation exchange capacity to adsorb chromium(III) into tightly bound complexes. Occluded within the humic coating, the chromium(III) was never exposed to oxidation into hexavalent chromium.

Also cycled along with chromium(III), manganese adsorbed to humic acid cation exchange sites as a tightly bound complex. Manganese(II) is far more soluble than the oxidized form, manganese(IV). Manganese(II) is the mobile form that adsorbed to humic coatings on soil particle surfaces. With its reactive sites occluded from oxidation by formation of inner sphere complexes with organic ligands, manganese(II) remained intact in its chemically reduced form.

It's not easy to oxidize chromium(III) into hexavalent chromium. Oxygen isn't a powerful enough oxidant to do it. Hexavalent chromium rarely occurs in nature.

But there is an oxidant generated as a by-product during manganese oxidation, far more powerful than oxygen.

Under aerobic conditions, some bacteria acquire their energy by oxidizing manganese(II) into manganese(IV). These chemoautotrophic can use carbon dioxide as their carbon source and manganese oxidation as their energy source.

During oxidation of manganese(II) to manganese(IV), a tiny bit of highly oxidized manganese(VII) is generated as by product.

Manganese(VII) is a strong enough oxidant to turn chromium(III) into hexavalent chromium through purely abiotic mechanisms.

Manganese(II) and chromium(III) lived happily side-by-side within organic carbon matrix of humic coatings for centuries.

When the land became desert, input of new organic carbon ceased.

As the chromium(III)/manganese(II) bearing humic coatings decomposed, they no longer had the cation exchange capacity of the organic matrix to hold them or prevent their oxidation.

As manganese(II) oxidized to manganese(IV) by oxygen, by product manganese(VII) oxidized chromium(III) to hexavalent chromium.

----------------------------------------
Government Oversight and Mandated Remediation Caused Hex Chrome Hazard.

Naturally occurring hexavalent chromium is limited to the margins of deserts.

Anthropogenic hexavalent chromium can have a complex life cycle.

Picture a Superfund site. A former laboratory that once handled extremely hazardous substances. The lab has been shut down for decades.

That laboratory used to drain their sinks into a septic tank on site.

None of the deadly stuff went down the drain. Just the usual lab sink waste.

That laboratory waste water included hexavalent chromium, commonly used as an oxidant in laboratory procedures. It also included organic carbon, some of which came in from the toilets.

When the hexavalent chromium entered the septic tank, it was highly soluble and mobile. It traveled into the leaching field and along subsurface flow paths.

The hexavalent chromium had a very short half life after it left the laboratory.

After it stalled somewhere along the subsurface flow path and was adsorbed by soil organic matter, it was reduced to Cr(III). Organic carbon is a good reductant.

For decades the input of organic carbon and chromium continued.

Subsurface flow paths were loaded up with organic carbon, chromium(III) and manganese(IV).

When the lab sewer system was taken out of service, the supply of new organic carbon was cut off.

Like the desert margin, as the organic matter decomposed and exposed chromium and manganese to oxidation, hexavalent chromium was generated.
06-04-2025 22:00
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Microorganisms have evolved to use multiple oxidants and multiple reductants to acquire energy.

Some oxidants are much stronger than others. Same for reductants.

The highest energy yield comes from coupling the strongest available oxidant to the strongest available reductant.

Aerobic hydrogen oxidizing bacteria get the most energy by using oxygen to oxidize hydrogen and generate water.

Hydrogen is such a strong reductant that even a very weak oxidant can be used to yield energy.

Ancient methanogenic bacteria used carbon dioxide as oxidant for hydrogen.

They generated methane gas for a slight energetic payoff.

Oxygen is such a strong oxidant that even a very weak reductant can be used to yield energy. Oxygen is the only naturally available oxidant strong enough to oxidize nitrite to nitrate by nitrifying bacteria, for a slight energetic payoff.

The most commonly used reductants in nature, in order of strength:

H2 > H2S > elemental-S > organic-S > iron(II) = Mn(II) > ammonia > nitrite

An even weaker reductant is used for most photosynthesis. Water is oxidized to oxygen gas in order to reduce carbon dioxide into organic carbon.

The most commonly used oxidants in nature, in order of strength:

O2 > nitrate > nitrite > iron(III) = Mn(IV) > sulfate > carbon dioxide

Competitive advantage goes to the organism that can best exploit the available reductants and oxidants.

So long as oxygen is available, nitrate reducers, iron/manganese reducers, sulfate reducers, methanogens, etc, are at a disadvantage.

So long as hydrogen is available, sulfur oxidizers, iron/manganese oxidizers, nitrogen oxidizers, etc., are all at a disadvantage.

This is just a short list of elements used by microorganisms for oxidation/reduction reactions. The complete list includes everything from arsenic to selenium.
06-04-2025 22:01
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
There has been life on earth for at least 4000 million years.

There was no photosynthesis in the earliest days.

There was an abundance of energy-rich reductants available in the environment.

Hydrogen gas for example.

All a bacteria needed was an oxidant to take advantage of it.

Oxidants were scarce in those days.

No oxidants had yet been generated by photosynthesis.

The earth did provide a few. There was some nitrate here and there, some sulfate, some iron and manganese in oxidized state. But not much. A few localized niches for nitrate reducers, sulfate reducers, etc., where the earth provided oxidants.

One very weak oxidant that was abundant was carbon dioxide.

The first methanogenic bacteria evolved to couple hydrogen oxidation to carbon dioxide reduction. The product of their metabolism was methane gas.

The earth had no ozone shield to protect from ultraviolet.

Manganese was particularly sensitive to photo oxidation by sunlight.

Where sunlight photooxidized manganese(II) to manganese(IV), that manganese(IV) could then be used by microorganisms as oxidant.

After they used the manganese(IV) to oxidize (hydrogen, hydrogen sulfide, sulfur, iron, carbon, etc., they had manganese(II) leftover as a waste product.

Somehow, a bacteria had manganese(II) inside the cell that got photooxidized to manganese(IV). Somehow it evolved into recycling the manganese within the cell, reoxidizing it with sunlight over and over.

Somehow it evolved into an organic matrix structure to hold the manganese atom in place.

It wasn't photosynthesis. It was just intracellular photoxidation to generate an oxidant.

Somehow, that organic structure to hold the manganese atom expanded into a light harvesting apparatus. Able to use blue light rather than ultraviolet, and be competitive in zones of lower light intensity. Expanded further to even be able to use red light, making it competitive in even dimmer environments. But still not photosynthesis. It was only generating oxidant, not reducing carbon.

The sunlight wasn't the source of energy for the bacteria. It was just the spark that allowed the bacteria to exploit other sources of energy, such as the oxidation of hydrogen.

Well, it's getting late. I'll pick it up tomorrow, get into anoxygenic photosynthesis and banded iron formations, finally oxygenic photosynthesis which provided the oxygen that changed everything.
06-04-2025 22:02
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Oxygen isn't easy to make. An electric current can transform water into hydrogen and oxygen gas, but it costs energy. It is not spontaneous.

4000 million years ago the earth's crust was still very actively spewing reductants to the surface. Volcanic activity was widespread and frequent. The planet was still getting hit with the occasional massive asteroid. These asteroid strikes caused even more massive release of reductants to the surface. Indeed, they are the benchmark events for the big chert layers at the bottom of banded iron formation sequences.

By 3000 million years ago, things had calmed down. Volcanic active was much less intense than before. We were't getting hit by massive asteroids any more.
And the supply of high energy reductants such as hydrogen was being depleted.

The oldest banded iron formations, the "microbanded" ones have only two kinds of material in the repeating layers. Chert, (iron + sulfur) mineral, chert, (iron + sulfur) mineral, chert, and on and on and on. These older banded iron formations are useless as iron ore. The iron layers are barely a couple of millimeters thick. The repetition is so consistent that they were once believed to be "annual varves", representing yearly seasonal shifts in sediment deposition.

I'll have to get back to how intracellular photooxidation evolved into photosynthesis later. When microbanded banded iron formations were created, there were already at least two kinds of anoxygenic photosynthesis. At least two different kinds of anoxygenic photosynthetic communities were competing for reductants and sunlight.

During periods when hydrogen was most abundant, the photosynthetic community that used hydrogen as reductant for anoxygenic photosynthesis would win out. They got the most bang for the buck from the sunlight and they outcompeted the others. Their photosynthesis oxidized the hydrogen into water.
Water was the oxidized product of that photosynthesis.

When dihydrogen was less depleted by the photosynthetic bacteris, there was still plenty of hydrogen sulfide to use as reductant for anoxygenic photosynthesis. A different community of photosynthetic bacteria could then become competitive. Anoxygenic photosynthesis using hydrogen sulfide doesn't give as much bang for the buck from the sunlight, and they couldn't compete until the ones who depended on dihydrogen starved off.

Anoxygenic photosynthesis using hydrogen sulfide as reductant generates sulfate as the oxidized product of that photosynthesis. When the new community of H2S-based photosynthesis displaced the H2-based community, they changed the chemistry of the sea water by adding sulfate - an oxidant.

Anoxygenic photosynthesis using dihydrogen produces water as the oxidized product. Water isn't a very good oxidant. Anoxygenic photosynthesis using hydrogen sulfide produces sulfate as the oxidized product. Sulfate is a mediocre oxidant, but it changed everything.

Each time the earth belched up another massive release of hydrogen, the hydrogen oxidizing photosynthetic community became dominant. Their debris rained down on the sea floor, piling up organic carbon. And no good oxidants to do anything with it. Carbon piled up.

Each time photosynthesis eventually depleted the available hydrogen enough for the hydrogen sulfide oxidizing photosynthetic bacteria to become dominant, an oxidant became available to enable microorganisms to exploit carbon on the sea floor. Carbon still piled up. But some of it was being lost via sulfate reduction by bacteria. Iron pyrite, among others, was being formed among the organic carbon on the sea floor.

When the microbanded banded iron formation sediments were first deposited, they consisted of alternating layers. Pure organic matter, organic matter plus pyrite, pure organic matter, organic matter plus pyrite, etc.

Over geologic time these carbon deposits became fossilized.

No, it wasn't "fossil fuel". The carbon got replaced by silica. The pure-silica chert layers of the banded iron formations are the fossils of the dead organic matter in the ancient seafloor.

Hmm, this is supposed to be about oxygen, so I'll jump ahead another 1000 million years.

The excited skin of the earth has calmed down over the years. Fewer and fewer reductants are being spewed out. Photosynthetic bacteria have had to evolve to use weaker and weaker reductants.

Dihydrogen gas and hydrogen sulfide were the best ones available before, but they are getting harder to find.

Well, there are other forms of reduced sulfur besides hydrogen sulfide that could be used. And they were. Arsenic was widely available and arsenite was a good reductant. Ferrous iron was a pretty good reductant. New photosynthetic communities evolved to exploit the next best available reductants. Sulfate, arsenate, and ferric iron were the oxidized products of photosynthesis released into the environment.

Skip, Skip, Skip.... Well, now we're getting desperate. Harder and harder to find a good reductant for anoxygenic photosynthesis.

What about nitrite? That's a tough nut to crack. Gonna require a lot of voltage.
And somebody did it. Anoxygenic photosynthesis using nitrite as reductant generates nitrate as the oxidized product. Nitrate is a pretty powerful oxidant. But that took a lot of voltage from the photosystem to yank off its electron. Not much bang for the buck as far as energy captured during photosynthesis. But if nitrite is the only reductant in town, that's what you have to work with.

Anoxygenic photosynthesis using nitrite as reductant generated a powerful oxidant for microorganisms to exploit. Reductants that were too weak to be exploited using sulfate as oxidant could now be oxidized for profit using nitrate.

But even nitrite can be depleted. What's a photosynthetic bacteria to do? Well, that nitrite oxidizing photosystem generate a whole lot of voltage. Enough to oxidize water? Somebody did it. They used water as reductant in a photosystem that could generate so much voltage it could yank an electron right off a water molecule. The water falls apart and release oxygen. Oxygen is the oxidized product from using water as reductant for oxygenic photosynthesis.

Hardly any bang for the sunlight buck, compared to the old school anoxygenic photosynthesis using reductants much stronger than water. These oxygenic guys still can't compete in microsites where there is still enough hydrogen, hydrogen sulfide, (organic-S, elemental-S, sulfite), arsenite, ferrous iron, or nitrite to support anoxygenic photosynthesis.

Check out the switch hitter. A blue green bacteria that is perfectly capable of doing oxygenic photosynthesis. Put him in a hydrogen rich environment and he'll turn off one of his photosystems. He won't squander sun energy just to tear water apart. He'll just take up the hydrogen directly from the sea and get a whole lot more bang for the buck in photosynthesis.
06-04-2025 22:03
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
So, banded iron formations are more than just the world's biggest deposits of iron ore.

They are among the oldest evidence of life on earth.

However, they represent photosynthetic ecosystem community succession.

Life was already pretty advanced by the time they formed.

The oldest banded iron formations are just shy of 4000 million years old.

They are the "microbanded" variety. No thick layers of high grade iron ore. Just a bunch of alternating thin (maybe 2 mm) layers.

They represent ecosystem community succession between just two types, back and forth. There are only two kinds of interlayered material. Pure chert and iron-and-sulfur-enriched chert.

The pure chert layer formed from sediment deposited following large release of hydrogen into the environment. Usually geologic activity, but sometimes following a big blow from an asteroid.

Anoxygenic photosynthesis using hydrogen as reductant does not generate any oxidant, just water.

When the hydrogen became depleted, a new photosynthetic community came in. They did anoxygenic photosynthesis using hydrogen sulfide as reductant. This generates sulfate. Sulfate is an oxidant.

When hydrogen was abundant, there was no sulfate being generated. Organic matter piled on the sea floor with virtually no oxidants available to decompose it.

When hydrogen was depleted and a new photosynthetic community used hydrogen sulfide as reductant, the sulfate they generated was used as an oxidant in the sea floor. Sulfate reduction generated pyrite.

The alternating layers were originally deposited as pure organic matter or organic matter plus pyrite. Fossilization replaced carbon with silica.

The earth was very active in those days. It never took very long before a wave of geologic activity resulted in an abundance of hydrogen again.


About 1000-2000 million years later, very different kinds of banded iron formations were created. This was a much more complex community succession. There were more than two kinds of layers.

They always begin at the bottom with layers of pure chert, just under layers of chert plus iron and sulfur.

But then there are overlying layers of increasing iron content, with iron in an increasingly oxidized state. What the miners coveted were the top layers of each sequence, massive deposits of the purest ore.

Every once in a while, a huge asteroid would still strike and begin another sequence.

But now there wasn't going to be a rapid resupply in the relatively near future.

Unlike the microbanded iron formations, there was enough time for the hydrogen sulfide to run out as the next best reductant for anoxygenic photosynthesis. When they had to resort to iron reduction, using ferrous iron as reductant, they generated ferric iron as the oxidized product.

Ferric iron is a more powerful oxidant than sulfate. The chemistry of the sediments in the banded iron formations reflects the presence of this more powerful oxidant. A third distinct layer type in every sequence.

When ferric iron ran out, they resorted to using arsenite or nitrite as reductants for anoxygenic photosynthesis. This generated arsenate and nitrate, which are more powerful oxidants than sulfate or ferric iron. A fourth distinct layer type in many sequences.

When all the available reductants ran out, photosynthetic communities had to resort to oxygenic photosynthesis. Oxygenic photosynthesis using water as reductant generates oxygen, a very powerful oxidant. The sediments deposited in the presence of this powerful oxidant are quite distinct from those that underly them.
06-04-2025 22:05
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
The intentions were good. It was a reasonable goal to improve public health.

What was missing?.[/quote]
They didn't check for arsenic.[/quote]

They did not.

They would have only been able to find it in a minority of the wells if they did.[/quote]

Thought it was standard to have water thoroughly tested for contaminants, before a new well was certified. I was still a kid in the 70s, but remember a friends family had a well drilled, and had to wait.

Seems odd they would go to the expense of drilling wells, when surface water was available. Wouldn't boiling the water kill the parasites? Chlorine is also a common water treatment,

We are exposed to, or consume a whole lot of hazardous materials, pretty much every day. The concentration, and frequency is what causes the problems.[/quote]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today, in wealthy nations such as the United States, there are indeed environmental regulations that require such testing to certify a well.

In the delta backwaters of South Asia and Southeast Asia in the 1970s, regulation wasn't so strict.

They didn't even have the infrastructure to do any such testing or any kind of certification process.

And who could have predicted the seasonal variability in groundwater arsenic biogeochemistry?

Samples from the initial wells, airlifted for testing abroad, showed no problem.

That would remain true for the few samples from new wells they could afford to test.

Only a small minority of wells would eventually prove to have high arsenic all year round.

Many other wells that were actually tested were caught at the wrong time of year to reveal any problem.

Relatively few wells could be tested. It just wasn't an option. And many of those that they did test, revealing low arsenic, would turn out to have much higher arsenic during the season when new well boring and testing was too difficult due to heavy rain.

Acute arsenic poisoning is a rapid process. People show symptoms very quickly.

When "agent blue" was sprayed over rice paddies of Viet Nam to kill the crops as part of the "food denial" program, people died immediately of acute arsenic poisoning.

The chemical form of arsenic in herbicides and pesticides is very different than the arsenic found in groundwater.

It took years of drinking the water day after day before people accumulated enough arsenic to make them sick.
06-04-2025 22:06
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Viet Nam - Anthropogenic AND Natural Arsenic Poisoning

Some poor peasants in the Mekong delta got arsenic poisoning twice during their lifetime.

They survived subacute arsenic poisoning when "agent blue" rained down into their water supply.

Years later they got sick from arsenic again, after drinking too much of it from shallow well water.

The first arsenic poisoning, arguably a war crime, was acute toxicity from highly reactive chemical forms of arsenic in anthropogenic herbicide.

That herbicide didn't remain poisonous in the rice paddies for very long.

The arsenic was rapidly transformed and attenuated as arsenate strongly bound to the soil. It would never hurt anybody again.

The second arsenic poisoning, a tragic mistake and not an act of war, was from drinking water that historically people knew better than to use.

There was no preexisting data set from shallow delta wells used for drinking water in the past. Such wells never existed before.

There was very little preexisting data for delta groundwater, period.

Arsenic has no taste, although the water was saltier than one might like.

You don't know you are sick until years too late to imagine it was the water.
06-04-2025 22:07
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Terms defined:

xenobiotic is not of biological origin

reductive dehalogenenation is the process by which bacteria remove atoms of chlorine, fluorine, bromine, or iodine.

These halogenated organics include everything from teflon to DDT.

No microorganism is capable of degrading these things for profit.

It costs more to make the enzymes to degrade them and make the carbon available for oxidation than they can get from oxidizing the carbon.

The stuff just hangs out in the environment for the longest time.

However, if we provide the right anaerobic bacteria with a source of energy (usually carbohyrate) to do it and provide extreme hypoxia conditions, they can tear the chlorine, fluorine, bromine or iodine off the xenobiotic. The halogen is chemically reduced to chloride, fluoride, bromide, or iodide ion. The remaining carbon can later be degraded for profit by (different) aerobic bacteria when oxygen is allowed to return.

Proven fact. It's already a success story, not a theory.

Contracting microorganisms to do our dirty work for us offers hope for how we can detoxify xenobiotics and facilitate their degradation.
06-04-2025 22:09
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
CHEMISTRY FUN (liar, liar, pants on fire)

I made a solution in the laboratory that had pH less than zero.

Am I lying? No. It was easy.

I made a solution of 1.5 N nitric acid.

Do the math. pH is the negative log of the hydrogen ion activity.

What is the negative log of that concentration?

It's easier if it's just a 1 N solution. That would be 10 to the zero power.

But then my pH would be exactly zero. It was 1.5 N with pH less than zero.

What is the alkalinity of a pH 7 solution? No way to tell from that alone.
You'll have to give me more info.

But I can tell you about a pH 4.5 solution with extremely high alkalinity.

Most carboxylic organic acids have a pKa near about 4.5.

At least the ones I used as chelating agents.

This means that at pH 4.5, half the acid is protonated form, and the other half is just organic anion.

Organic anions have acid neutralizing capacity, which is the same as alkalinity.

If I start with a 1 molar solution of vitamin C and adjust it to pH 4.5, what is the alkalinity? 0.5 moles per liter. Off the scale compared to groundwater.

Should I translate that alkalinity into calcium carbonate equivalents, grams per liter? Only if I have to write a government report.
06-04-2025 22:10
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
XENOBIOTICS include PLASTIC.

We synthesized a lot of materials that no organism ever evolved to degrade.

Many bacteria and fungi produce the right kind of enzymes, or are capable of carrying out detoxifying redox reactions, but cannot degrade xenobiotics unless they are supplied.

But it can be as simple and flooding the soil with beer brewery waste to create extreme low oxygen with an energy source for reductive dehalogenation and other xenobiotic degradation reactions.

And we can use a model from Mother Nature. Chitin degradation.

3-way symbiosis: Plant-fungi-bacteria.

Chitin is what arthropod (insects, etc.) exoskeletons are made of. There is a lot of it in soil communities. It is a great source of nitrogen, but it's tough to degrade.

Some bacteria make enzymes that can degrade chitin. But they can't make a living at it. They can tear apart the chitin to mobilize the nitrogen. They could then oxidize the remaining organic carbon. But there's no profit in it.

Almost all plants have symbiotic mycorrhizal fungi associated with their roots.

Plants provide organic carbon to the fungi. The fungi with its extensive network of fine hyphae, contacts about 50 times as much soil surface area as the roots of its plant partner. The fungal hyphae can reach far and wide, using the food provided by the plant. They can then transfer to the plant nutrients acquired from the soil.

Fungi are biochemical wizards are far as producing enzymes to degrade decomposing organic matter. But chitin is a tough nut to crack even for a fungi.
Besides, many fungi include chitin in their own structure. Producing a self-digesting enzyme is hazardous.

Bacteria can degrade chitin, but it's generally not worth it. Unless they are truly starving for nitrogen. But let's connect the three to see the model nature provides for degrading xenobiotics.

The tree gives its mycorrhizal fungi some organic carbon. Go get me some nitrogen. The fungi has a monolayer of bacteria on the tips of its hyphae.
The fungi gives some of the organic carbon it got from the tree and gives it to the bacteria. Go get me some nitrogen. The bacteria produces chitinase. Just far enough away from the fungi not to digest it too. Soil chitin is degraded by the chitinase from the bacteria. The mycorrhizal fungi pick up the nitrogen mobilized by the bacteria and pass it back up to the tree.

We can use those guys to break down things besides chitin.

We can selectively breed bacteria to degrade things that Mother Nature has never seen before. Maybe even throw in a little genetic engineering.
06-04-2025 22:11
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Paleobiogeochemistry time again!

The banded iron formations reveal that life has been present on earth for 4000 million years.

The geologic record revealed that there was a time before the earth had oxygen in the atmosphere.

The banded iron formations revealed a major shift in oxidation-reduction conditions, where iron was fully oxidized.

It was known that oxygen is deadly to microorganisms adapted exclusively to low oxygen conditions.

So, there must been an "oxygen catastrophe".

A mass extinction must have occurred.

One little flaw in the theory was that there wasn't just one band of oxidized iron in the banded iron formations.

The "oxygen catastrophe" must have happened over and over.

And over and over and over again, over a period of 2000 million years.

The quantities of oxidized iron in the banded iron formations represent at least a 1000 million years of oxygenic photosynthesis.

And this was before enough of the iron in the earth's crust had oxidized that it became possible for free oxygen to accumulate in the atmosphere.

There was no "oxygen catastrophe".

There were 2000 million years during which oxygen was at least sometimes present under otherwise prevailing reducing conditions.

Oxygen was not a poison.

It was a coveted resource.

It was the most powerful oxidant nature ever provided.

It released more energy than any other oxidant when used to oxidize hydrogen, hydrogen sulfide, reduced sulfur of all forms, manganese(II), ferrous iron, and all the other reductants.

And, of course, carbon. Oxygen got the most bang for the buck when a microorganism used it to oxidize organic carbon.

Sulfur gave a lot more energy than carbon, using oxygen to burn it.

Sulfur oxidizing bacteria parked next to the photosynthetic cyanobacteria.

They wanted to catch the oxygen as soon as it came out.

They left us some distinct fossil layers to prove it.
06-04-2025 22:14
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Actually it IS possible to measure the pH of the oceans.

That probably doesn't require too much suspension of disbelief.

But when they measure pH, what are they even measuring.

I used the word "commensurate" rather than "proportional" because the pH scale is logarithmic.

pH is the negative of the logarithm of hydrogen ion activity.

Before we get into "activity" rather than "concentration", make sure we got the "logarithm" part right.

pH 7 is where the activity of hydrogen ions is equal to the activity of hydroxide.

10 to the minus 7 power is a tiny number. 0.000001

pH 6 translates to 0.00001 a unit change of just 1 represents tens times as much hydrogen activity.

Why "activity"?

To illustrate, let's look at ferric iron.

Put some ferric iron into our pH 7 solution and nearly all of it precipitates.

Equilibrium activity of labile ferric ion is extremely low at pH 7.

A measure of iron concentration would show extremely low.

Now make a pH 7 solution of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) and add ferric iron to it.

The concentration of iron in solution can be orders of magnitude higher at pH 7 than the pH 7 water with no vitamin C.

Concentration is not activity.

When the ferric iron was chelated by vitamin C, its reactive sites were occluded by attachment to organic ligands.

These iron atoms have very low chemical activity, compared to ferric iron not chelated by vitamin C.

The same level of total chemical activity can support a much much higher concentration of iron in solution, if each iron atom atom has low chemical activity.

But you could still calculate iron concentration based on pH if you have the right activity coefficient for iron in vitamin C chelation complexes.

And by the way, the fact that chelated ferric iron is so soluble, it means that even at SEA WATER pH it remains soluble and bioavailable.

And I don't think I can to convince most of you that you can measure that pH.
06-04-2025 22:16
Im a BM
★★★★★
(3508)
Thank you, Spongy Iris, for a meaningful contribution to a rational discussion.

You mentioned that one approach to mitigating the "rotten egg" smell is simply to aerate.

Bubbling oxygen in.

That is your easiest, cheapest, best quick fix.

Entry of oxygen accomplishes two things.

It allows sulfur oxidizing bacteria to transform hydrogen sulfide into sulfuric acid.

Maybe that doesn't sound better than rotten eggs, but it really is.

Entry of oxygen also prevents further generation of H2S.

Some microorganisms are adapted to exclusively low-oxygen conditions, and oxygen will simply kill them.

Others, like many sulfate reducers won't be killed by oxygen.

But they will be STARVED by the presence of oxygen.

They just can't compete if oxygen is around.

Aerobic microorganisms will get much much greater payoff by using oxygen, rather than sulfate, as oxidant to get energy from the oxidation of organic carbon.

The aerobic population will quickly outnumber the sulfate reducers and starve them out.

Back to the sulfuric acid generated when H2S is oxidized using oxygen.

Some sewer systems built of concrete get dissolved by the stuff.

Hydrogen sulfide, H2S, emitted from the anaerobic sewage by sulfate reducing bacteria under low oxygen conditions, floats up into the air.

Sulfur oxidizing bacteria on the concrete walls of the sewer catch the H2S and turn it into sulfuric acid.

That sulfuric acid then reacts with the calcium carbonate (lime) in the concrete.

The acid neutralizing capacity (alkalinity) of the lime comes into play.

Sulfuric acid + calcium carbonate = calcium sulfate + carbon dioxide + water

Back to bubbling oxygen to prevent anaerobic generation of stink and such.

During dredging operations, anaerobic sediment is exposed to oxygen.

It often contains a lot of H2S that is released.

Dredging use to occasionally cause big fish kills.

Then they learned to use industrial scale injection of air bubbles in the process.

Rather than get fish kills, they get fish feeding frenzies.

Thank you again, Spongy Iris for bringing relevant information and knowledge that makes a valuable contribution to the discussion!
Page 13 of 16<<<1112131415>>>





Join the debate Geoengineering to Neutralize Ocean Acidification:

Remember me

Related content
ThreadsRepliesLast post
Ocean ph.5614-06-2026 09:32
Restoring Alkalinity to the Ocean89210-06-2026 01:24
What the pHuck are bupHers, ocean acidipHication, and "pH"?507-05-2026 21:38
Ocean "acidification" once and for all?3104-01-2026 22:28
Florida in hot water as ocean temperatures rise along with the humidity213-07-2023 15:50
▲ Top of page
Public Poll
Who is leading the renewable energy race?

US
10% [58 Votes]

EU
27% [149 Votes]

China
18% [102 Votes]

Japan
4% [24 Votes]

India
5% [25 Votes]

Brazil
2% [13 Votes]

Other
6% [35 Votes]

Don't know
27% [148 Votes]

Votes: 554
Started: 07-02-2018

Thanks for supporting Climate-Debate.com.
Copyright © 2009-2020 Climate-Debate.com | About | Contact