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Gates21-10-2019 01:46
keepit
★★★☆☆
(710)
Bill Gates was on Bloomberg television this morning talking about climate change among other things. He's pretty committed to the issue of AGW. Other things he talked about were productivity and AI. He gave a kind of a snarky smirk about the changes and rearrangements that will have take place as a result of people being displaced from their jobs.
The bottom line as i see it is that AI will reduce the number of man hours that are required to produce our needs. If AI doesn't do that then AI isn't so valuable.
Anyway, if the number of man hours required is reduced then we won't have to work so many hours. That won't sit well with a lot of people but ask yourself if you would like to reduce your man hours if you were a construction worker or a welder or a coal miner?
Edited on 21-10-2019 01:47
21-10-2019 01:54
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5025)
keepit wrote:
Bill Gates was on Bloomberg television this morning talking about climate change among other things. He's pretty committed to the issue of AGW. Other things he talked about were productivity and AI. He gave a kind of a snarky smirk about the changes and rearrangements that will have take place as a result of people being displaced from their jobs.
The bottom line as i see it is that AI will reduce the number of man hours that are required to produce our needs. If AI doesn't do that then AI isn't so valuable.
Anyway, if the number of man hours required is reduced then we won't have to work so many hours. That won't sit well with a lot of people but ask yourself if you would like to reduce your man hours if you were a construction worker or a welder or a coal miner?

AI will enable humans to be more effective during the hours they are performing analysis and will perform thousands/millions of rote/mechanical tasks and free the human mind to achieve new realizations, epiphanies and understandings. AI will enable analysts to perform higher level analyses than currently possible.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
21-10-2019 01:59
keepit
★★★☆☆
(710)
But if that doesn't help the coal miners, the construction workers, and the welders, etc. then we have a problem.
21-10-2019 02:00
James___
★★★★☆
(1711)
keepit wrote:
Bill Gates was on Bloomberg television this morning talking about climate change among other things. He's pretty committed to the issue of AGW. Other things he talked about were productivity and AI. He gave a kind of a snarky smirk about the changes and rearrangements that will have take place as a result of people being displaced from their jobs.
The bottom line as i see it is that AI will reduce the number of man hours that are required to produce our needs. If AI doesn't do that then AI isn't so valuable.
Anyway, if the number of man hours required is reduced then we won't have to work so many hours. That won't sit well with a lot of people but ask yourself if you would like to reduce your man hours if you were a construction worker or a welder or a coal miner?


That used to be discussed, machines replacing people so there are not enough jobs for everyone who wants to work.
While this mentions jobs that have gone to China between 2001 - 2011 it does not mention jobs lost to technology. It does say what our government has said, we want to have fewer but better paying jobs. After that everyone else can work in the service industry.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_1327413?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGVoBMbKsAKN2jGl3R2w2ajMVujpVttdMSbGKFOxABfOwXfgR3mojFm0YpkQ6e6Jz-ELcVDRnmlt_-aLMM2Tpn4gxbTthLL0jRvLYB0f2f3Hnuz4-yPTQQwMRkZXAjqotZeEQ-zzpLgWlK5cG1IbDmn_Kbce8r20LXzQ4nogJIUa
21-10-2019 02:09
keepit
★★★☆☆
(710)
James,
It's still being discussed and it's getting worse.
21-10-2019 02:54
James___
★★★★☆
(1711)
keepit wrote:
James,
It's still being discussed and it's getting worse.



I tried doing a search but neither Bing or Google would get away from course lessons in prodictivity and how it's valued.
21-10-2019 11:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9872)
keepit wrote:
But if that doesn't help the coal miners, the construction workers, and the welders, etc. then we have a problem.


But it does help them. Any coal miner or welder can buy into the Alexa system. That's AI. They can buy and lease cars with semiautomatic driving modes. That's AI.

No problem.


The Parrot Killer
21-10-2019 11:13
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9872)
keepit wrote:
James,
It's still being discussed and it's getting worse.


Instead of the drudgery of bolting the same bolt on a car, now you have jobs making, installing, programming, maintaining, and fixing the robots that do that job at a faster rate then before, and the car is now cheaper as a result. More people can buy them.


The Parrot Killer
21-10-2019 17:35
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5025)
keepit wrote: But if that doesn't help the coal miners, the construction workers, and the welders, etc. then we have a problem.

AI could very well help design safer mines, or perhaps better methods for welding. You can't tell a priori how AI will help ... it aids human inspiration.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
21-10-2019 17:50
keepit
★★★☆☆
(710)
I was trying to find out how much less they can work in those jobs because of AI.
Those are hard jobs.
21-10-2019 20:39
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9872)
keepit wrote:
I was trying to find out how much less they can work in those jobs because of AI.
Those are hard jobs.


Nope. Same jobs. More productive with better equipment.


The Parrot Killer
21-10-2019 20:55
keepit
★★★☆☆
(710)
Not much help for the coal miner.
22-10-2019 02:37
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9872)
keepit wrote:
Not much help for the coal miner.


Why not?


The Parrot Killer
22-10-2019 04:27
James___
★★★★☆
(1711)
keepit wrote:
Not much help for the coal miner.



There are ways that they could improve the efficiency of coal mining so that they create jobs as well. I tried discussing this with the editor of the Pikeville, Ky newspaper. It's in the heart of eastern Kentucky's coal country.
I've watched documentaries on PBS and am familiar with what they do. Like many people in Kentucky, if it worked in 1900 it'll work today.
This kind of goes with we need to restore the ozone layer. At the same time we need to limit CO2 emissions if for no other reason, if they get much higher then they can pose a health hazard.
What we can't do is to consider what allows for sustainability. Like aquifers west of the Mississippi River being depleted, not a problem. Just a friendly reminder, Rome fell when it lost its water supply. The single most important thing in any civilization but one that people ignore.
22-10-2019 05:38
keepit
★★★☆☆
(710)
Bill Gates was talking about rearrangements that would have to happen as a result of increased productivity. "Rearrangements " means loss of jobs, or loss of man hours. One of the purposes of AI would be to make it better for the worker by reducing man hours, not increasing jobs. Increasing jobs is the work of politicians. If AI can't help the worker it isn't very useful.
As it is today, AI is increasing the wealth of rich people but not the worker.

It's the wealthy that are causing most of the CO2 to be produced.
Edited on 22-10-2019 05:39
22-10-2019 06:08
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1474)
keepit wrote:
Increasing jobs is the work of politicians.


Please get this notion out of your head!!
An increase in jobs is the result of turning the private sector loose and unleashed.


spot-
Into the Night is also has delusions of comptance
22-10-2019 07:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9872)
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Not much help for the coal miner.



There are ways that they could improve the efficiency of coal mining so that they create jobs as well. I tried discussing this with the editor of the Pikeville, Ky newspaper. It's in the heart of eastern Kentucky's coal country.
I've watched documentaries on PBS and am familiar with what they do. Like many people in Kentucky, if it worked in 1900 it'll work today.
This kind of goes with we need to restore the ozone layer.

There is nothing to restore. The ozone layer is the same as always.
James___ wrote:
At the same time we need to limit CO2 emissions if for no other reason, if they get much higher then they can pose a health hazard.
CO2 is not toxic until 60,000ppm, over 150 times the current value reported by Mauna Loa.
James___ wrote:
What we can't do is to consider what allows for sustainability.

Of what? Void argument fallacy.
James___ wrote:
Like aquifers west of the Mississippi River being depleted, not a problem.

Random wandering. Compositional error fallacy. Not all aquifers along the Mississippi River valley are depleted.
James___ wrote:
Just a friendly reminder, Rome fell when it lost its water supply.

No, it fell for several reasons, economic, barbarian attacks, and internal strife caused by the dictatorships. It did not lose its water supply. The city sits on the Tiber River.


The Parrot Killer
22-10-2019 07:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9872)
keepit wrote:
Bill Gates was talking about rearrangements that would have to happen as a result of increased productivity. "Rearrangements " means loss of jobs, or loss of man hours.

No, it means 'rearrangements'. People are simply working in different jobs, not a loss of jobs.
keepit wrote:
One of the purposes of AI would be to make it better for the worker by reducing man hours, not increasing jobs.

No, AI does not reduce man hours.
keepit wrote:
Increasing jobs is the work of politicians.

No, it isn't.
keepit wrote:
If AI can't help the worker it isn't very useful.

True, but since anyone can buy into the Alexa service or make use of the Google search engine, for example, it generally helps.
keepit wrote:
As it is today, AI is increasing the wealth of rich people but not the worker.

Nah. It's helping everyone that wants to use it.
keepit wrote:
It's the wealthy that are causing most of the CO2 to be produced.

So?


The Parrot Killer
22-10-2019 07:16
James___
★★★★☆
(1711)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
keepit wrote:
Not much help for the coal miner.



There are ways that they could improve the efficiency of coal mining so that they create jobs as well. I tried discussing this with the editor of the Pikeville, Ky newspaper. It's in the heart of eastern Kentucky's coal country.
I've watched documentaries on PBS and am familiar with what they do. Like many people in Kentucky, if it worked in 1900 it'll work today.
This kind of goes with we need to restore the ozone layer.

There is nothing to restore. The ozone layer is the same as always.
James___ wrote:
At the same time we need to limit CO2 emissions if for no other reason, if they get much higher then they can pose a health hazard.
CO2 is not toxic until 60,000ppm, over 150 times the current value reported by Mauna Loa.
James___ wrote:
What we can't do is to consider what allows for sustainability.

Of what? Void argument fallacy.
James___ wrote:
Like aquifers west of the Mississippi River being depleted, not a problem.

Random wandering. Compositional error fallacy. Not all aquifers along the Mississippi River valley are depleted.
James___ wrote:
Just a friendly reminder, Rome fell when it lost its water supply.

No, it fell for several reasons, economic, barbarian attacks, and internal strife caused by the dictatorships. It did not lose its water supply. The city sits on the Tiber River.



Are you missing me Isn't? Does Polly want a cracker? Saltines are nice and white with a hint of brine.
It's a shame that Tecumseh trusted his brother. Only his brother wasn't him. Otherwise 1806 might be remembered for a different reason. It does help to accept history for what it was.

My bad. It was these earthquakes that Tecumseh spoke of but it was his brother's lies that were his undoing. In the Disney movie Pocahontas they said it was Chief Wahusenecaw that wanted to drive the white devil back into the sea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811–12_New_Madrid_earthquakes
Edited on 22-10-2019 07:23
22-10-2019 09:37
keepit
★★★☆☆
(710)
Gas,
Increasing jobs is the result of a lot of things. One of which is the politicians making legislation to make it possible.
The problem is, more jobs mean more CO2.
Edited on 22-10-2019 09:37
22-10-2019 10:31
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1482)
Bill Gates is simply selling a product, which still has a long way to go, before it's a major threat to the work force. Might be a good career choice for the kids wonder what to major in, when they go to college. AI isn't cheap yet, nor is every job robot ready either, which is another large investment. Humans are still relatively cheap, and easy to replace. There are still quite a few jobs, where an AI might not be such a great choice. It's still something that works pretty good in the lab, with interesting possible applications, but quite few problems that need to be worked. Those problems will be easier to spot and fix, once it starts getting applied to real world applications. It's still a computer program, and doesn't actually think or reason. It's not capable of creative solutions, for any issues that pop up. An AI will follow the instruction and follow the rules programmed into it, even if it's not exactly what was intended. It won't know it's making mistakes, until corrected.

Installing and training an electro-mechanical employee isn't just a weekend project, it'll take a month or two, and disrupt or even shut down production. Once they get a good design, the transition would get quicker and easier, for some types of work, but there is still going to be a lot of custom installs, to fit the unique needs and situations. A lot of employers stick with humans, because the technology is expensive, and expected loss of profits, even without the AI aspects.

Bill Gates is just trying to entice more companies to give his AI products a try, but he is mostly just on the software side of it. The machines that do the physical work still need to be designed and build, in most cases. Basically, he assuring companies that all the parts to make it happen, are currently available, and trying to talk them into giving a try. He needs a few working examples to get the ball rolling.
22-10-2019 17:01
keepit
★★★☆☆
(710)
I just bet that AI is farther along than we think.
It's kind of like our own children, they're more advanced than we think at a young age.
Some day that robots will build them selves. What will we do then?
22-10-2019 23:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9872)
keepit wrote:
Gas,
Increasing jobs is the result of a lot of things. One of which is the politicians making legislation to make it possible.

Politicians don't create jobs or wealth.
keepit wrote:
The problem is, more jobs mean more CO2.

So?


The Parrot Killer
22-10-2019 23:10
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9872)
keepit wrote:
I just bet that AI is farther along than we think.
It's kind of like our own children, they're more advanced than we think at a young age.
Some day that robots will build them selves. What will we do then?


Robots already build themselves. Look at the people employed programming those machines and operating them.

What rock have you been hiding under?


The Parrot Killer




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