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From ice core analysis to temperature curves



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From ice core analysis to temperature curves15-07-2021 11:18
hpstricker
☆☆☆☆☆
(3)
I asked the following question already at Earth Science StackExchange. If you know better places to ask (than here and there) please give me a hint.

In ice cores a lot of data are measured and analyzed and can be plotted versus depth, for example

- age of layers
- thickness of layers
- concentration of spurious gases
- concentration of solids
- delta signals

I am looking for sources where I can find - ideally at one place - the curves that give the values of these quantities versus ice core depth, e.g. like in this example.

Is there possibly an interactive website where I can even zoom into such curves?

Finally I'd like to know, if there is one set of "equations" which give the estimated (surface?) temperatures and carbon dioxide concentrations as well as the amount of precipitation as functions of the measured data. I imagine such equations must exist - or are they too complicated to write down? (The equations should also give the error range! Side question: Does the error range decrease with time (i.e. increase with depth)?)
15-07-2021 13:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10037)


hpstricker wrote:In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core ice cores a lot of data are measured and analyzed and can be plotted versus depth, for example.

I see a reference to Wikipedia. This tells me that a mindlessly-regurgitated error-filled post must surely follow.

hpstricker wrote: I am looking for sources where I can find - ideally at one place - the curves that give the values of these quantities versus ice core depth,

So what you seek is someone's totally invalid "conclusions" drawn from proxy data so you can generate your own brand of wild speculation about the past. Great. I presume you want to extrapolate your incredible work of fiction about one square meter of real estate to the entire surface of the earth ... and polish it with the logos of NOAA and NASA in the upper corner.

Am I close?

hpstricker wrote:The equations should also give the error range! Side question: Does the error range decrease with time (i.e. increase with depth)?)

All proxy speculation places the error outside usable bounds. I recommend you brush up on your statistical math.

15-07-2021 18:45
James___
★★★★★
(5145)
hpstricker wrote:
I asked the following question already at Earth Science StackExchange. If you know better places to ask (than here and there) please give me a hint.

In ice cores a lot of data are measured and analyzed and can be plotted versus depth, for example

- age of layers
- thickness of layers
- concentration of spurious gases
- concentration of solids
- delta signals

I am looking for sources where I can find - ideally at one place - the curves that give the values of these quantities versus ice core depth, e.g. like in this example.

Is there possibly an interactive website where I can even zoom into such curves?

Finally I'd like to know, if there is one set of "equations" which give the estimated (surface?) temperatures and carbon dioxide concentrations as well as the amount of precipitation as functions of the measured data. I imagine such equations must exist - or are they too complicated to write down? (The equations should also give the error range! Side question: Does the error range decrease with time (i.e. increase with depth)?)



You'll probably be better off looking for papers that have been published. Hopefully this helps you out some.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access/paleoclimatology-data/datasets/ice-core
15-07-2021 20:22
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16173)
hpstricker wrote:
I asked the following question already at Earth Science StackExchange. If you know better places to ask (than here and there) please give me a hint.

In ice cores a lot of data are measured and analyzed and can be plotted versus depth, for example

- age of layers
- thickness of layers
- concentration of spurious gases
- concentration of solids
- delta signals

I am looking for sources where I can find - ideally at one place - the curves that give the values of these quantities versus ice core depth, e.g. like in this example.

Is there possibly an interactive website where I can even zoom into such curves?

Finally I'd like to know, if there is one set of "equations" which give the estimated (surface?) temperatures and carbon dioxide concentrations as well as the amount of precipitation as functions of the measured data. I imagine such equations must exist - or are they too complicated to write down? (The equations should also give the error range! Side question: Does the error range decrease with time (i.e. increase with depth)?)
Ice cores are not usable to speculate the temperature at any point in the past. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth, even today. There are simply not enough thermometers.

Ice cores can't measure the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere at any time in the past either. We still can't measure the global CO2 concentration today. There are not enough stations.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
15-07-2021 20:23
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16173)
James___ wrote:
hpstricker wrote:
I asked the following question already at Earth Science StackExchange. If you know better places to ask (than here and there) please give me a hint.

In ice cores a lot of data are measured and analyzed and can be plotted versus depth, for example

- age of layers
- thickness of layers
- concentration of spurious gases
- concentration of solids
- delta signals

I am looking for sources where I can find - ideally at one place - the curves that give the values of these quantities versus ice core depth, e.g. like in this example.

Is there possibly an interactive website where I can even zoom into such curves?

Finally I'd like to know, if there is one set of "equations" which give the estimated (surface?) temperatures and carbon dioxide concentrations as well as the amount of precipitation as functions of the measured data. I imagine such equations must exist - or are they too complicated to write down? (The equations should also give the error range! Side question: Does the error range decrease with time (i.e. increase with depth)?)



You'll probably be better off looking for papers that have been published. Hopefully this helps you out some.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access/paleoclimatology-data/datasets/ice-core

NOAA has no capability to measure the temperature of the Earth, either in the past or today.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
15-07-2021 21:48
James___
★★★★★
(5145)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
hpstricker wrote:
I asked the following question already at Earth Science StackExchange. If you know better places to ask (than here and there) please give me a hint.

In ice cores a lot of data are measured and analyzed and can be plotted versus depth, for example

- age of layers
- thickness of layers
- concentration of spurious gases
- concentration of solids
- delta signals

I am looking for sources where I can find - ideally at one place - the curves that give the values of these quantities versus ice core depth, e.g. like in this example.

Is there possibly an interactive website where I can even zoom into such curves?

Finally I'd like to know, if there is one set of "equations" which give the estimated (surface?) temperatures and carbon dioxide concentrations as well as the amount of precipitation as functions of the measured data. I imagine such equations must exist - or are they too complicated to write down? (The equations should also give the error range! Side question: Does the error range decrease with time (i.e. increase with depth)?)



You'll probably be better off looking for papers that have been published. Hopefully this helps you out some.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access/paleoclimatology-data/datasets/ice-core

NOAA has no capability to measure the temperature of the Earth, either in the past or today.



You gotta understand that heat "is" and is a "flow". The more "is" that "flows" influences both microbes and atmospheric gasses.
16-07-2021 02:56
S@ve0ur3arth
☆☆☆☆☆
(24)
IBdaMann wrote:


hpstricker wrote:In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core ice cores a lot of data are measured and analyzed and can be plotted versus depth, for example.

I see a reference to Wikipedia. This tells me that a mindlessly-regurgitated error-filled post must surely follow.

hpstricker wrote: I am looking for sources where I can find - ideally at one place - the curves that give the values of these quantities versus ice core depth,

So what you seek is someone's totally invalid "conclusions" drawn from proxy data so you can generate your own brand of wild speculation about the past. Great. I presume you want to extrapolate your incredible work of fiction about one square meter of real estate to the entire surface of the earth ... and polish it with the logos of NOAA and NASA in the upper corner.

Am I close?

hpstricker wrote:The equations should also give the error range! Side question: Does the error range decrease with time (i.e. increase with depth)?)

All proxy speculation places the error outside usable bounds. I recommend you brush up on your statistical math.


I have to admit that the rant about Wikipedia definitely made my day.
16-07-2021 03:02
S@ve0ur3arth
☆☆☆☆☆
(24)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
hpstricker wrote:
I asked the following question already at Earth Science StackExchange. If you know better places to ask (than here and there) please give me a hint.

In ice cores a lot of data are measured and analyzed and can be plotted versus depth, for example

- age of layers
- thickness of layers
- concentration of spurious gases
- concentration of solids
- delta signals

I am looking for sources where I can find - ideally at one place - the curves that give the values of these quantities versus ice core depth, e.g. like in this example.

Is there possibly an interactive website where I can even zoom into such curves?

Finally I'd like to know, if there is one set of "equations" which give the estimated (surface?) temperatures and carbon dioxide concentrations as well as the amount of precipitation as functions of the measured data. I imagine such equations must exist - or are they too complicated to write down? (The equations should also give the error range! Side question: Does the error range decrease with time (i.e. increase with depth)?)



You'll probably be better off looking for papers that have been published. Hopefully this helps you out some.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access/paleoclimatology-data/datasets/ice-core

NOAA has no capability to measure the temperature of the Earth, either in the past or today.

Unfortunately that's true. The NOAA simply can't do that. However, the sad thing is that many people still think they can.
16-07-2021 03:05
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1379)
No proxy data is useable.We have 50 years of real time weather and actual trees growing and there is no corelation.Micheal Mann made it up.Ice core are the same.I watched a you tube of a Japanese scientist who spent 35 years of his career building computer models of climate and he shrugs and admits it can not be done to any useable level.Its all too variable
16-07-2021 07:16
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3682)
duncan61 wrote:
No proxy data is useable.We have 50 years of real time weather and actual trees growing and there is no corelation.Micheal Mann made it up.Ice core are the same.I watched a you tube of a Japanese scientist who spent 35 years of his career building computer models of climate and he shrugs and admits it can not be done to any useable level.Its all too variable


Pretty much why I view climate models, as a nerd's video game. They just play with the numbers, until the computer spits out something 'cool', and interesting. The IPCC then searches for proxies and analog data, that seem to support the model output. Sort of backward, but sells well to politicians and the fear mongering media.
16-07-2021 11:08
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1379)
Totally agree Harvey.Lets find the results then go look for the evidence
16-07-2021 20:31
James___
★★★★★
(5145)
Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.
Attached image:


Edited on 16-07-2021 20:32
17-07-2021 03:10
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10037)
James___ wrote:Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.

James___, I'm sure you'll post the next picture of Lake Oroville after a couple weeks of above average rainfall, juxtapose that picture of Lake Oroville ready to overflow next to the picture you posted of Lake Oroville after an extended dry spell and proclaim that Lake Oroville is simultaneously going bone dry and filling to capacity ... because there must be something going on there.




A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-07-2021 03:43
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3682)
A lot of areas, will drain lakes, to clean up some of the muck, and crap, that collects on the bottom over the decades. You could probably dig up dozens of photos of dry lakes and rivers being cleaned up. And there will be also plenty of photos of the same rivers and lakes overflowing. Not always global warming, but often man made...
17-07-2021 04:09
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(2478)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.

James___, I'm sure you'll post the next picture of Lake Oroville after a couple weeks of above average rainfall, juxtapose that picture of Lake Oroville ready to overflow next to the picture you posted of Lake Oroville after an extended dry spell and proclaim that Lake Oroville is simultaneously going bone dry and filling to capacity ... because there must be something going on there.

Let's just say that a picture of the creek that flows by my house (at the present moment) would have hardly any water in it, as we've been hard pressed for rain this Summer... However, after one heavy rainfall, the water would be overflowing the banks and flooding the nearby land.

I can't be sure if anything is happening...

Edited on 17-07-2021 04:21
17-07-2021 05:35
James___
★★★★★
(5145)
gfm7175 wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.

James___, I'm sure you'll post the next picture of Lake Oroville after a couple weeks of above average rainfall, juxtapose that picture of Lake Oroville ready to overflow next to the picture you posted of Lake Oroville after an extended dry spell and proclaim that Lake Oroville is simultaneously going bone dry and filling to capacity ... because there must be something going on there.

Let's just say that a picture of the creek that flows by my house (at the present moment) would have hardly any water in it, as we've been hard pressed for rain this Summer... However, after one heavy rainfall, the water would be overflowing the banks and flooding the nearby land.

I can't be sure if anything is happening...



My dad was in what you call Israel and saw no guy on a cross. Guess it never happened. Maybe we can say that some "guy" says a "guy" was on a cross because he was a thief?
To quote you;
I can't be sure if anything happened...


I'll go by what you said, nothing happened. Even Jews say nothing happened.
They are still waiting for their prophecy to be fulfilled. Just hasn't happened yet. In the words of my Jewish neighbor, the Torah says "some guy" walked on the shore. Who to believe? You or the Jew?


Go Fück M€ (GFM), you sound like Harvey. It rains in Florida. But not everyone can live off of lemons. And from what you said GFM, Jesus who? Nothing of what you ever post represents his teachings. After all, I never saw him die on the cross so it can't be proven and therefore does not matter. Your own words.
Am sorry but I can't prove that Jesus died on the cross so we have to say that never happened. Your thoughts. Proof is required and yet I always thought that Christians had faith. They don't.


This might be why Christians require proof of the future according to science, it's about control.

Edited on 17-07-2021 05:44
17-07-2021 06:35
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10037)


James___ wrote:My dad was in what you call Israel and saw no guy on a cross. Guess it never happened. Maybe we can say that some "guy" says a "guy" was on a cross because he was a thief?
To quote you;

I'll go by what you said, nothing happened. Even Jews say nothing happened.
They are still waiting for their prophecy to be fulfilled. Just hasn't happened yet. In the words of my Jewish neighbor, the Torah says "some guy" walked on the shore. Who to believe? You or the Jew?

Go Fück M€ (GFM), you sound like Harvey. It rains in Florida. But not everyone can live off of lemons. And from what you said GFM, Jesus who? Nothing of what you ever post represents his teachings. After all, I never saw him die on the cross so it can't be proven and therefore does not matter. Your own words.
Am sorry but I can't prove that Jesus died on the cross so we have to say that never happened. Your thoughts. Proof is required and yet I always thought that Christians had faith. They don't.

This might be why Christians require proof of the future according to science, it's about control.

James__, I'm glad you were able to encapsulate this brilliant point in one coherent, well thought out post. How long can it be before your illucidation goes viral. You'll probably be invited to post as OneSuperSaviorForReal on freejoy.com before heading out to the book tour and the lecture circuit.

I just want to be the first congratulate you. I can't say for certain whether you'll win the Pulitzer because that award is always embroiled in politics.

Anyway, congratulations. Your laurels are well earned.

18-07-2021 07:49
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3744)
hpstricker wrote:
I asked the following ... I'd like to know, if there is one set of "equations" which give the estimated (surface?) temperatures and carbon dioxide concentrations ...


Welcome to the forum and cool question.

How would surface temperature be indicated in the ice?

I don't know a lot about it. The air bubbles being trapped being measured I get as well as the thickness of layers.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
18-07-2021 19:09
James___
★★★★★
(5145)
tmiddles wrote:
hpstricker wrote:
I asked the following ... I'd like to know, if there is one set of "equations" which give the estimated (surface?) temperatures and carbon dioxide concentrations ...


Welcome to the forum and cool question.

How would surface temperature be indicated in the ice?

I don't know a lot about it. The air bubbles being trapped being measured I get as well as the thickness of layers.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN



How would surface temperature be indicated in the ice?


2 different isotopes of oxygen, 16 and 18 will vary depending on temperature. Also different microbes found in ice core samples will also help to understand how warm or cold it was at that time. If you have some spare time, it is about how different microbes help to show different climates. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4009855/
This information is compared to core samples taken from the ground and the seafloor itself. Radiocarbon dating can help to align various samples to show a broader picture within a certain time frame.
18-07-2021 19:48
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10037)


tgoebbles wrote:I don't know a lot about it.

There isn't a whole heck of a lot that you do know ... about really anything. You are only here to sow political disinformation and to preach your WACKY religious dogma.

tgoebbles wrote: The air bubbles being trapped being measured I get as well as the thickness of layers.

Why would any rational adult believe that a chemical composition can tell you about its temperature ... in the distant past? Oh, that's right, when you're omniscient you can claim that you got the "information" from anything you like. Got it. I'm just surprised you didn't go with the standard "we have satellites."

The thickness of the layers is determined by the amount of precipitation (and deformation due to the weight of the ice above it). Why would any rational adult believe that an amount of precipitation could possibly tell you the temperature of the precipitation when it fell ... in the distant past? Oh, that's right, when your omniscient you can claim that you got all the "information" from anything you like. Got it.

Yes, your response was rather stupid, as usual.

18-07-2021 19:56
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10037)


James___ wrote:2 different isotopes of oxygen, 16 and 18 will vary depending on temperature.

Nope. Radiometric dating was such a breakthrough because such decay is not affected by either temperature, pressure or humidity.

James___ wrote:Also different microbes found in ice core samples will also help to understand how warm or cold it was at that time.

In what way specifically?

James___ wrote: Radiocarbon dating can help to align various samples to show a broader picture within a certain time frame.

... and what are you forgetting?




A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-07-2021 20:00
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3682)
Ice is impermeable, and never melts... Microbes never evolve, and unaffected by temperature, or being sealed in ice for hundreds of thousands of years. Covid, is one of those microbes, released into the wild, by climate scientist. They blame China, to distract from their own mistakes. Russia is a partner in the ice core harvesting, can't pick on them. Guess they never imagined digging up viable, hazardous biologics, long forgotten... Wonder if they'll find a dinosaur killing plague pathogen, in one of their Popsicles...
18-07-2021 20:09
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10037)


HarveyH55 wrote:Ice is impermeable, and never melts...

You know, I had a suspicion that was the case.

HarveyH55 wrote: Microbes never evolve, and unaffected by temperature, or being sealed in ice for hundreds of thousands of years.

Right. What we know is that microbes only began evolving after ice was invented.

HarveyH55 wrote: Covid, is one of those microbes, released into the wild, by climate scientist.

... after they rescued it from the Exxon-Valdez disaster.




A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-07-2021 20:48
James___
★★★★★
(5145)
@tmiddles, as it gets hotter, more of the oxygen in the atmosphere will be the isotope
Oxygen - 18. And when ice crystals are formed it's likely that they trap other things inside. Take a snow flake, it is not pure water but traps impurities in it. This would be how dust, microbes and gasses make it into ice cores. When snow piles up and it becomes colder, then snow becomes ice. I've seen this in Yekaterinburg, Russia. There in the winter you could be walking on a layer of ice 6 inches thick.
When it's cooler, there is less water vapor in the atmosphere. This would explain why there would be more dust in the air. A good rain storm helps to cleanse the air of particulates. Basically during an ice age, it might get a lot of dust in the air. At the same time sea levels would be low compared to what we have today.
19-07-2021 00:55
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3744)
James___ wrote:...as it gets hotter, more of the oxygen in the atmosphere ...Basically during an ice age, it might get a lot of dust in the air. At the same time sea levels would be low compared to what we have today.


Thanks James! That makes a lot of sense.
Saw something similar here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z87s4j6/revision/2
19-07-2021 04:22
James___
★★★★★
(5145)
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:...as it gets hotter, more of the oxygen in the atmosphere ...Basically during an ice age, it might get a lot of dust in the air. At the same time sea levels would be low compared to what we have today.


Thanks James! That makes a lot of sense.
Saw something similar here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z87s4j6/revision/2



You're welcome. I noticed they also included natural variability. I think it is possible for us to influence warming. I go more with hydrocarbons and ODSs.
The oceans are very good at absorbing UV radiation and the Gulf Stream and the Pacific Ocean both flow into the Arctic Ocean. The Arctic Ocean has a cold water outflow through the Labrador Current west of Greenland. And that in turn can keep sea ice from forming while helping to melt glaciers. Then there's the feedback mechanism of a rebounding tectonic plate.
Edited on 19-07-2021 05:17
19-07-2021 05:58
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10037)
James___ wrote:I noticed they also included natural variability.

What does that even mean? We have yet another totally undefined buzzword.

James___ wrote:I think it is possible for us to influence warming.

What does that even mean? Influence? Could you be any less specific? Warming? Could you be any less specific?

James___ wrote: The oceans are very good at absorbing UV radiation

... because it is comprised of matter. Yes, there is only one ocean on the planet.

James___ wrote:The Arctic Ocean has a cold water outflow through the Labrador Current west of Greenland.

Cold water comes out of the Arctic you say? That must mean there is cold water in the Arctic. Can you support your assertion?

James___ wrote:And that in turn can keep sea ice from forming while helping to melt glaciers.



James___ wrote:Then there's the feedback mechanism of a rebounding tectonic plate.



19-07-2021 07:47
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3682)
I don't really understand how anyone can determine that something is wrong. This is our first inter-glacial period. We have known, that long before the burning of mass quantities, there were weather extremes. Weather changes with the seasons. Weather changes from one day to the next. It was hot and sunny on this day, one year ago. Doesn't mean it's going to be hot and sunny today. Although, this is Florida...
19-07-2021 21:38
James___
★★★★★
(5145)
@tmiddles, the cold Labrador Current flows through Baffin Bay. The current starts as a part of the Arctic Ocean and flows from west to east along Canada then goes through the Queen Elizabeth Islands. This helps the North Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation to go from the surface to the sea floor. This is what allows for warm water from both the Gulf Stream in the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean http://kotz.org/2021/05/06/warming-pacific-waters-likely-adding-to-arctic-sea-ice-loss-study-finds/ to flow into the Arctic.
And if you consider that 93% of the heat associated with climate change is found in water, that suggests something other than CO2. This is why I am willing to consider hydrocarbons and ODSs.
20-07-2021 04:09
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3682)
There was warming long before burning, in mass quantities. We really have no idea about the details or the warming, because there was no written language for much of it. Then of course the writings with the yellow snow, melted, and were lost. Surprised no fragments were ever discovered in ice core samples.
20-07-2021 07:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10037)
HarveyH55 wrote:There was warming long before burning, in mass quantities. We really have no idea about the details or the warming, because there was no written language for much of it. Then of course the writings with the yellow snow, melted, and were lost. Surprised no fragments were ever discovered in ice core samples.

Humans tended to not live where there was accumulating ice. There weren't many humans where we currently drill to "write" their memoires into the ice cores for posterity.




A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-07-2021 21:28
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3682)
I grew up in Oregon, rained all the time, winters often brutal. I believed the Ice Age scare of the 1970s, as it really did seem like the cold would never end. It was traumatizing, and as an adult, I was in a hurry to move to sunny Florida. And been content ever since. Well, until the same ****s, started preaching global warming, rising sea levels, more frequent, a stronger hurricanes... Scarier than a Norwegian massage parlor. The offer of a 'happy ending', but no clear sigh of gender. Probably a woman, is good enough for the massage...

I'm glad the global warming, is only happening in the democrat states. Florida is fine, low 90s. 88 F right now... Humidity is a little high, feels hotter, but still not hell fire like out west.
22-07-2021 01:27
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(759)
James___ wrote:
Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.


In 2019, there had been 3 solid rainy seasons in CA.

But that was after maybe almost 10 years of drought since 2006.

In 2019, lots of pundits started declaring an end to the drought. But past 2 years looks like the drought is back with a vengeance.

I love the desert weather. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. We're not out of water... yet...


22-07-2021 02:39
James___
★★★★★
(5145)
Spongy Iris wrote:
James___ wrote:
Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.


In 2019, there had been 3 solid rainy seasons in CA.

But that was after maybe almost 10 years of drought since 2006.

In 2019, lots of pundits started declaring an end to the drought. But past 2 years looks like the drought is back with a vengeance.

I love the desert weather. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. We're not out of water... yet...



I sometimes feel sorry for these guys. They just don't understanding how interesting the Earth is. I've known for a while that we need to improve desalination. Economies can adapt.
From a scientific perspective, as water tables drop in the West, outgoing solar radiation has a longer wave length. This keep it in the atmosphere longer. And this in turn increases the "greenhouse effect". But these guys don't know enough about science to understand that.


p.s., when I lived in Mesa (a suburb of Phoenix) I used to go for rides on my 10 speed bike out into the desert all the time. I really did enjoy it. It was actually quite relaxing.
22-07-2021 06:15
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(759)
James___ wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
[quote]James___ wrote:
Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.




I sometimes feel sorry for these guys. They just don't understanding how interesting the Earth is. I've known for a while that we need to improve desalination. Economies can adapt.
From a scientific perspective, as water tables drop in the West, outgoing solar radiation has a longer wave length. This keep it in the atmosphere longer. And this in turn increases the "greenhouse effect". But these guys don't know enough about science to understand that.



Plenty of water from the Pacific if you can desalinate it...

Is that cuz dry land is less reflective?


22-07-2021 07:55
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1379)
Nearly half our potable water in Perth comes from a desalination plant.There is also one in Binningup that supplies Bunbury
22-07-2021 08:14
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3682)
James___ wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
James___ wrote:
Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.


In 2019, there had been 3 solid rainy seasons in CA.

But that was after maybe almost 10 years of drought since 2006.

In 2019, lots of pundits started declaring an end to the drought. But past 2 years looks like the drought is back with a vengeance.

I love the desert weather. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. We're not out of water... yet...



I sometimes feel sorry for these guys. They just don't understanding how interesting the Earth is. I've known for a while that we need to improve desalination. Economies can adapt.
From a scientific perspective, as water tables drop in the West, outgoing solar radiation has a longer wave length. This keep it in the atmosphere longer. And this in turn increases the "greenhouse effect". But these guys don't know enough about science to understand that.


p.s., when I lived in Mesa (a suburb of Phoenix) I used to go for rides on my 10 speed bike out into the desert all the time. I really did enjoy it. It was actually quite relaxing.


Yeah, democrat science, is simply consensus. With the proper marketing an politics, pretty much any stupid thing, can be accepted science. Actual science isn't what's popular, trendy, or requires faith.
22-07-2021 17:51
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16173)
Spongy Iris wrote:
James___ wrote:
Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.


In 2019, there had been 3 solid rainy seasons in CA.

But that was after maybe almost 10 years of drought since 2006.

In 2019, lots of pundits started declaring an end to the drought. But past 2 years looks like the drought is back with a vengeance.

I love the desert weather. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. We're not out of water... yet...

The farmers and ranchers are. Many of those crops are being abandoned, and they are giving up and moving out of the SOTC.

It's pretty grim looking driving through there now.

The cause is not climate change (whatever THAT is!). It's simply that the SOTC doesn't collect the water it gets.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-07-2021 17:53
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16173)
James___ wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
James___ wrote:
Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.


In 2019, there had been 3 solid rainy seasons in CA.

But that was after maybe almost 10 years of drought since 2006.

In 2019, lots of pundits started declaring an end to the drought. But past 2 years looks like the drought is back with a vengeance.

I love the desert weather. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. We're not out of water... yet...



I sometimes feel sorry for these guys. They just don't understanding how interesting the Earth is. I've known for a while that we need to improve desalination. Economies can adapt.
From a scientific perspective, as water tables drop in the West, outgoing solar radiation has a longer wave length. This keep it in the atmosphere longer. And this in turn increases the "greenhouse effect". But these guys don't know enough about science to understand that.


p.s., when I lived in Mesa (a suburb of Phoenix) I used to go for rides on my 10 speed bike out into the desert all the time. I really did enjoy it. It was actually quite relaxing.

There is no such thing as 'outgoing solar radiation' from Earth. Earth is not the Sun.
Frequency does not change the speed of light.

You deny science.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
22-07-2021 17:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16173)
Spongy Iris wrote:
James___ wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
[quote]James___ wrote:
Pictures of Lakes Oroville in June 2019 and now. Can't be sure if anything is happening.




I sometimes feel sorry for these guys. They just don't understanding how interesting the Earth is. I've known for a while that we need to improve desalination. Economies can adapt.
From a scientific perspective, as water tables drop in the West, outgoing solar radiation has a longer wave length. This keep it in the atmosphere longer. And this in turn increases the "greenhouse effect". But these guys don't know enough about science to understand that.



Plenty of water from the Pacific if you can desalinate it...

Is that cuz dry land is less reflective?


Does everyone here forget that clouds forming from evaporation over the Pacific, moving over the land and raining or snowing IS desalination?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
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