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Forget New Green Deal, Let's make BIS(Basic Infrastructure And Service) Free.


Forget New Green Deal, Let's make BIS(Basic Infrastructure And Service) Free.14-01-2020 08:43
decentralmind
☆☆☆☆☆
(7)
List of Basic Infrastructure and services(BIS) are :-
* Land/Housing
* Water
* Electricity
* Health
* Internet
* Factory
* Education
* Security
* Transportation
* Agriculture

If world population is squeezed into area size of Queensland, Australia(7.692 million km²) than each person on planet earth will own approximately 231.625 square meter's of land, that's very comfortable living space for single person, many people today lives in cramped space way below than this.(Calculation: https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/its-not-overpopulation-problem-rather-population-mismanagement-problem-d6-e2892.php#post_46625)

With current on going bush fire at Australia, It is estimated that around approximately around 12.35 million acres of land have burned there. If this burned land is distributed to Individual Australian than each one will own approximately 2031 square meter's of land, this is more than enough land for individual to live high comfortable life. I'm not trying to state that Australian need to distribute burned land, that's not my intention, my point is Australia has more than enough land for everyone.

It's not just Australia, if some portion of land is divided and given to the people in their respective country than everybody in the world will have sufficient land to live comfortably.

Let's think logically, If somehow millions people lost their land during climate crisis than how would they buy new land? Where do they get money from? The only logical way to solve this crisis is to distribute land to people so that they can easily relocate to safe area and settle there without any financial burden.

If society work together to make these core BIS freely accessible to anyone, lot's of climate change crisis would be mitigated.
14-01-2020 18:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
decentralmind wrote:
List of Basic Infrastructure and services(BIS) are :-
* Land/Housing
* Water
* Electricity
* Health
* Internet
* Factory
* Education
* Security
* Transportation
* Agriculture

If world population is squeezed into area size of Queensland, Australia(7.692 million km²) than each person on planet earth will own approximately 231.625 square meter's of land, that's very comfortable living space for single person, many people today lives in cramped space way below than this.(Calculation: https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/its-not-overpopulation-problem-rather-population-mismanagement-problem-d6-e2892.php#post_46625)

With current on going bush fire at Australia, It is estimated that around approximately around 12.35 million acres of land have burned there. If this burned land is distributed to Individual Australian than each one will own approximately 2031 square meter's of land, this is more than enough land for individual to live high comfortable life. I'm not trying to state that Australian need to distribute burned land, that's not my intention, my point is Australia has more than enough land for everyone.

It's not just Australia, if some portion of land is divided and given to the people in their respective country than everybody in the world will have sufficient land to live comfortably.

Let's think logically, If somehow millions people lost their land during climate crisis than how would they buy new land? Where do they get money from? The only logical way to solve this crisis is to distribute land to people so that they can easily relocate to safe area and settle there without any financial burden.

If society work together to make these core BIS freely accessible to anyone, lot's of climate change crisis would be mitigated.

Socialism is not the answer.
Define 'climate crisis'. Define 'climate change'.


The Parrot Killer
14-01-2020 18:32
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
decentralmind wrote: Let's think logically, If somehow millions people lost their land during climate crisis than how would they buy new land?

Great news! The climate crisis ended. It's over!


Whew! We certainly dodged that bullet. At least now we can forget it ever happened and just enjoy life going forward.

I want to thank you for your part in making that happen. Great job!


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
14-01-2020 18:49
decentralmind
☆☆☆☆☆
(7)

Socialism is not the answer.
Define 'climate crisis'. Define 'climate change'.


It's not about socialism nor capitalism. It's about what works. Look at Australia, thousands of people have already lost their homes by bush fire. Just think about it how would they get money to buy new houses and lands? According to IPCC report, climate change will displace million of people, again how would these people arrange money to rebuilt their lost homes or resettle. The only logical and practical solution is to somehow distribute available land freely to people, so that during disaster people can easily relocate and resettle without any financial burden.

Also If these millions of people migrated to new place where it's home to millions of native parrots, there is high possibility that due to shortage of food supply and money to buy it, these people might start hunting parrots for food and everyone will be a real Parrot Killer. This will be ecological disaster as parrots population might get wiped out. If there is a mechanism with the help of modern technology where food is produced and distributed freely to newly migrated people than such scenario could be averted saving parrots and it's surrounding ecology.

Earth resources belongs to people, we live here, we have right to our resources. Creating new green goods and high wages doesn't make people rich, only few percent of population will get benefits. The real way to make people rich is distribute the earth resources.

If I want to somehow make health service free to the climate affected community or built agriculture technology to provide free food to drought affected area doesn't imply that I'm socialist. Get your logic right.

BTW, if you are capitalist than hope you rejoiced when trillion of dollars was bailout to banks. That's capitalism disguise as socialism for only banks.
Edited on 14-01-2020 19:28
14-01-2020 18:59
decentralmind
☆☆☆☆☆
(7)

Whew! We certainly dodged that bullet. At least now we can forget it ever happened and just enjoy life going forward.


Climate change is not a bullet it's Atom bomb, dodge that.
14-01-2020 19:06
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
decentralmind wrote:

Whew! We certainly dodged that bullet. At least now we can forget it ever happened and just enjoy life going forward.


Climate change is not a bullet it's Atom bomb, dodge that.


Well, however you categorize it, we don't need to worry about it any more. Whatever you did worked because the problem is gone forever.

You were great. I don't know if you did it yourself or if you were part of a team but no one can doubt your effectiveness. You're like the Climate Change Skunk Works! You knocked it out of the park and you did the planet a solid.

Humanity owes you a debt of gratitude. You eradicated Global Warming and Climate Change. I don't know how it was done exactly but we're finally safe.


Thank you.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
14-01-2020 20:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
decentralmind wrote:

Socialism is not the answer.
Define 'climate crisis'. Define 'climate change'.


It's not about socialism nor capitalism.
Yes it is.
decentralmind wrote:
It's about what works.
Socialism doesn't work. All it brings is misery.
decentralmind wrote:
Look at Australia, thousands of people have already lost their homes by bush fire. Just think about it how would they get money to buy new houses and lands?
The land is still there. Build new homes.
decentralmind wrote:
According to IPCC report,
You cannot use the IPCC as a reference of the future of any kind.
decentralmind wrote:
climate change will displace million of people,
Define 'climate change'.
decentralmind wrote:
again how would these people arrange money to rebuilt their lost homes or resettle.
Void argument fallacy. False authority fallacy. You must define 'climate change'.
decentralmind wrote:
The only logical and practical solution is to somehow distribute available land freely to people, so that during disaster people can easily relocate and resettle without any financial burden.
Socialism doesn't work.
decentralmind wrote:
Also If these millions of people migrated to new place where it's home to millions of native parrots, there is high possibility that due to shortage of food supply and money to buy it, these people might start hunting parrots for food and everyone will be a real Parrot Killer.
Empty speculation. Void argument fallacy. Define 'climate change'.
decentralmind wrote:
This will be ecological disaster as parrots population might get wiped out.
Pascal's Wager fallacy. Define 'climate change'.
decentralmind wrote:
If there is a mechanism with the help of modern technology where food is produced
It's called 'farming'.
decentralmind wrote:
and distributed freely to newly migrated people
Farmers don't work for free. Socialism doesn't work.
decentralmind wrote:
than such scenario could be averted saving parrots and it's surrounding ecology.
Pascal's Wager fallacy.
decentralmind wrote:
Earth resources belongs to people,
Some people own resources, yes.
decentralmind wrote:
we live here, we have right to our resources.
No. You do not have the right to take the resources someone owns. That's called 'theft'.
decentralmind wrote:
Creating new green goods and high wages doesn't make people rich,
Yes it does.
decentralmind wrote:
only few percent of population will get benefits.
Those that create wealth become rich. Many benefit from that created wealth. Capitalism is the only system that creates wealth. Socialism can only exist by stealing wealth.
decentralmind wrote:
The real way to make people rich is distribute the earth resources.
Socialism doesn't work.
decentralmind wrote:
If I want to somehow make health service free
Doctors, nurses, all the suppliers, and those that maintain the hospital buildings do not work for free.
decentralmind wrote:
to the climate affected community
Define 'climate affected community'. Define 'climate change'.
decentralmind wrote:
or built agriculture technology to provide free food
Farmers don't work for free.
decentralmind wrote:
to drought affected area doesn't imply that I'm socialist.
Yes it does. You want to steal from doctors, farmers, nurses, suppliers of medical equipment, and many others and give it to an elite class. That's theft, dude. It is theft of labor. It is theft of materials.
decentralmind wrote:
Get your logic right.
I am expert in logic. So far, you have committed the following logic errors (fallacies) in this post alone:
* Buzzword fallacy. The phrase 'climate change' is meaningless. Your use of the word 'resources' is vague and meaningless.
* Void argument fallacy. You are basing your arguments on a meaningless phrase.
* Redefinition fallacies (capitalism<->socialism, theft<->'fair', private<->public).
* Pascal's Wager fallacy. You are describing horrible outcomes if one does not join your religion.
* Extreme argument fallacy. You are making an extreme conclusion from a speculation based on a meaningless buzzword.
* False authority fallacy. The IPCC is not a valid authoritative reference of any future.
* Circular argument fallacy. You are attempting to construct a proof of a circular argument.
decentralmind wrote:
BTW, if you are capitalist
I am.
decentralmind wrote:
than hope you rejoiced when trillion of dollars was bailout to banks.
That is not capitalism. That is socialism.
decentralmind wrote:
That's capitalism disguise as socialism for only banks.

No. That is socialism.

Only capitalism can create wealth. Socialism can only exist by stealing wealth. It can only exist by use of force of government, which is why it requires a dictatorship or an oligarchy to implement. People do not like their wealth stolen.

Capitalism is where people work for themselves, are responsible for themselves, and build for themselves. It is capitalism that literally brought the village out of the jungle. It is capitalism that built whole cities out of the wilderness. There was no government. It is capitalism that brings about new products, new markets, improvements of products and technology.

It was capitalism that brought you the computer and the internet and the web protocols that you use right now. Without capitalism, none of these computers would have been built. There would be no hardware to run the internet on.

If people want a home, they must build it using their own wealth which they created. If the home is destroyed for any reason, they must rebuild it the same way they built in the first place. If people want medical care, they must pay for it. If people want food. They must pay for it (either by growing it themselves, ranching it themselves, or hunting for it themselves, or paying someone else to do it (grocery stores).

Capitalism is freedom of choice, both for the creator of wealth, and for the buyer of that wealth.

Socialism is slavery. There is no choice. You are only given what someone else wishes you to have. It's only result is misery.


The Parrot Killer
14-01-2020 20:22
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
decentralmind wrote:

Whew! We certainly dodged that bullet. At least now we can forget it ever happened and just enjoy life going forward.


Climate change is not a bullet it's Atom bomb, dodge that.


Define 'climate change'.


The Parrot Killer
14-01-2020 20:42
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
decentralmind wrote: It's not about socialism nor capitalism. It's about what works.

So tell us, which one works and which one does not?

decentralmind wrote: The only logical and practical solution is to somehow distribute available land freely to people,

If you can arrange it such that I am the one who performs the "distribution" then I will support your solution. Are you good with that?

decentralmind wrote: This will be ecological disaster as parrots population might get wiped out.

Wouldn't you just centrally plan for that to not happen?

decentralmind wrote:If there is a mechanism with the help of modern technology where food is produced and distributed freely to newly migrated people than such scenario could be averted saving parrots and it's surrounding ecology.

If you can arrange it such that I am the one who performs the "distribution" then I will support your solution. Are you good with that?

decentralmind wrote:Earth resources belongs to people, we live here, we have right to our resources.

Let's not delay getting me appointed distributor of the earth's resources so I can start distributing them. We are wasting time just sitting here discussing this. Ecologies are being destroyed and people are without land. Let's get moving.

decentralmind wrote: The real way to make people rich is distribute the earth resources.

Absolutely! What are we waiting for?

decentralmind wrote: If I want to somehow make health service free to the climate affected community or built agriculture technology to provide free food to drought affected area doesn't imply that I'm socialist.

Of course it doesn't. It means you will work tirelessly to get me appointed "Chief Distributor" and end this reign of global capitalistic poverty.

decentralmind wrote: BTW, if you are capitalist than hope you rejoiced when trillion of dollars was bailout to banks. That's capitalism disguise as socialism for only banks.

... and to think he called you a socialist! What was he thinking?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-01-2020 07:14
decentralmind
☆☆☆☆☆
(7)
Again this thread is not about capitalism nor social, it's about trying to make BIS(Basic Infrastructure and Services) free without any cost through the use of technological innovation such as Automation and AI. There are already autonomous factories, self driving cars and vertical farming, we can use and program these to create better society.

Into the Night wrote:
Only capitalism can create wealth


Capitalism puts profit before Planet and Human, without profit capitalism cannot function. It turns native rare animals including birds(Parrot) into commodity for the sake of profit and drives it to extinction. It encourage people to turn into psychopath animal hunter or Parrot killer in dire situation. This system is Human created artificial hell on Earth. It allows banks to create money out of thin air and bind general population into debt with a money that is not backed by anything. It's a rigged system, 2007 financial crisis proves it where banks got trillions bailout. Capitalism cannot solve problems brought by climate change.

If society works together with help of AI(Artificial Intelligence) and Autonomous robot to make BIS(Basic Infrastructure and Service) free, lot's of problems brought by climate change can be mitigated.
Edited on 15-01-2020 08:10
15-01-2020 15:00
Harry CProfile picture★☆☆☆☆
(105)
decentralmind wrote:
List of Basic Infrastructure and services(BIS) are :-
* Land/Housing
* Water
* Electricity
* Health
* Internet
* Factory
* Education
* Security
* Transportation
* Agriculture

If world population is squeezed into area size of Queensland, Australia(7.692 million km²) than each person on planet earth will own approximately 231.625 square meter's of land, that's very comfortable living space for single person, many people today lives in cramped space way below than this.(Calculation: https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/its-not-overpopulation-problem-rather-population-mismanagement-problem-d6-e2892.php#post_46625)

With current on going bush fire at Australia, It is estimated that around approximately around 12.35 million acres of land have burned there. If this burned land is distributed to Individual Australian than each one will own approximately 2031 square meter's of land, this is more than enough land for individual to live high comfortable life. I'm not trying to state that Australian need to distribute burned land, that's not my intention, my point is Australia has more than enough land for everyone.

It's not just Australia, if some portion of land is divided and given to the people in their respective country than everybody in the world will have sufficient land to live comfortably.

Let's think logically, If somehow millions people lost their land during climate crisis than how would they buy new land? Where do they get money from? The only logical way to solve this crisis is to distribute land to people so that they can easily relocate to safe area and settle there without any financial burden.

If society work together to make these core BIS freely accessible to anyone, lot's of climate change crisis would be mitigated.


Agenda 21. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21


You learn something new every day if you are lucky!
15-01-2020 18:15
gfm7175
★★☆☆☆
(221)
decentralmind wrote:
Again this thread is not about capitalism nor social,

Yes it is.

decentralmind wrote:
it's about trying to make BIS(Basic Infrastructure and Services) free without any cost through the use of technological innovation such as Automation and AI.

...and that is socialism. Also, people do not work for free.

decentralmind wrote:
There are already autonomous factories, self driving cars and vertical farming, we can use and program these to create better society.

...and none of those things are free. Those things came about from capitalism.

decentralmind wrote:
Capitalism puts profit before Planet and Human, without profit capitalism cannot function. It turns native rare animals including birds(Parrot) into commodity for the sake of profit and drives it to extinction. It encourage people to turn into psychopath animal hunter or Parrot killer in dire situation. This system is Human created artificial hell on Earth. It allows banks to create money out of thin air and bind general population into debt with a money that is not backed by anything. It's a rigged system, 2007 financial crisis proves it where banks got trillions bailout.

Sounds like you really hate capitalism. So, tell me... Do you hate your computers, clothing, electricity, kitchen appliances, tools, vehicles, boats, ATVs, phones, TVs, roads, railways, airplanes, etc. etc. etc.??

decentralmind wrote:
Capitalism cannot solve problems brought by climate change.

What "problems"? Define "climate change".

decentralmind wrote:
If society works together with help of AI(Artificial Intelligence) and Autonomous robot to make BIS(Basic Infrastructure and Service) free,

People do not work for free. Materials are not free. Products are not free. It will always cost somebody something.

decentralmind wrote:
lot's of problems brought by climate change can be mitigated.

What "problems"? Define "climate change".
15-01-2020 20:30
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
decentralmind wrote:
Again this thread is not about capitalism nor social,

You made it such
decentralmind wrote:
it's about trying to make BIS(Basic Infrastructure and Services) free without any cost

Socialism doesn't work.
decentralmind wrote:
through the use of technological innovation such as Automation and AI.

Automation and AI both cost money.
decentralmind wrote:
There are already autonomous factories,

Autonomous factories cost money.
decentralmind wrote:
self driving cars

Self driving cars cost money.
decentralmind wrote:
and vertical farming,

Vertical farming costs money.
decentralmind wrote:
we can use and program these to create better society.

We already have a better society thanks to technology, a direct result of capitalism.
decentralmind wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Only capitalism can create wealth

Capitalism puts profit before Planet and Human,

You can't have a profit without serving other people. That includes better ways of doing things that improves the environment.
decentralmind wrote:
without profit capitalism cannot function.

True. Profit isn't evil. Whoever told you it was is trying to turn you into a slave.
decentralmind wrote:
It turns native rare animals including birds(Parrot) into commodity for the sake of profit and drives it to extinction.

Quite the opposite. It helps to provide improvements for them as well. Farming techniques, ranching techniques, and even discovering that people like parrots (and other birds) has improved their lot.
decentralmind wrote:
It encourage people to turn into psychopath animal hunter

Psychoquackery. A hunter is not a psychopath. Hunters and fisherman have done more to restore the animals they hunt they any other factor. We stock lakes with fish. The hunters themselves place limits on what the hunt and actively work to improve the environment for the animals they like to hunt. Obviously, you have never hunted or fished.
decentralmind wrote:
or Parrot killer in dire situation.

What dire situation? Capitalism improves the situation for all.
decentralmind wrote:
This system is Human created artificial hell on Earth.

You are describing socialism, not capitalism. You still don't seem to understand the difference.
decentralmind wrote:
It allows banks to create money out of thin air

No bank can create money out of thin air.
decentralmind wrote:
and bind general population into debt with a money that is not backed by anything.

Why do you trust that money?
decentralmind wrote:
It's a rigged system,

Money isn't capitalism. You still don't understand capitalism.
decentralmind wrote:
2007 financial crisis proves it where banks got trillions bailout.

Not capitalism. Socialism.
decentralmind wrote:
Capitalism cannot solve problems brought by climate change.

Define 'climate change'. You have to define a problem before you can discuss how it can be solved.
decentralmind wrote:
If society works together with help of AI(Artificial Intelligence) and Autonomous robot to make BIS(Basic Infrastructure and Service) free,

None of these are free.
decentralmind wrote:
lot's of problems brought by climate change can be mitigated.

Define 'climate change'. What are you trying to mitigate?


The Parrot Killer




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