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Electric Vehicles?

Electric Vehicles?27-09-2019 18:29
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
I remember electrics and hybrids were a thing during the Obama years. A lot of ads on TV, radio, newspapers. Sort of noticed lately, those ads don't run anymore, and were replace with full size trucks, vans, and mainly SUVs. I could understand that they might have been popular, mainly because of subsidies and incentives form Obama. The interest seemed to die kind of quick, when the free money ran out. Sort of an example of just how 'green' people are, when there isn't free money involved. You would have figured, it would have carried a little longer, if these vehicles were really every bit as good as a gas burning, when more people got to ride in their friends and neighbors. Maybe the sticker shock, for those looking to pay full price, was a little much, for the 'green' machines. Also noticed that Obama seldom has much to say, since his unemployment/retirement. He seemed so sincere as president, really thought him and Al Gore would have teamed, and used there manipulative skills, to get the world on track, and save the planet. Guess both are just enjoying their wealth and retirement, and don't care that much after all.

I don't know any sales numbers, but figure the car makers advertise their more popular and profitable models, which seem to be SUVs, and not electric, 'green' machines. I'm guess that the vast majority of people, just don't take climate change seriously, when it comes to spending money. When gas was expensive ($4.00/gallon), there were a lot of those annoying mopeds on the roads, that could never do the speed limit, backing up traffic. Really don't see that many people interested enough, to cut back on the fossil fuels to save the planet. Got a hunch the carbon tax crap is going to see a lot of opposition.
27-09-2019 21:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
Some people like electric cars because:
* they are quieter. There is no banging of burning gasoline or diesel (even muffled). They are silent except for road noise.
* they perform great in the snow, having independently driven traction wheels.
* preferential parking when used for commuting.
* they are 'high tech', making them attractive to workers in that sector.
* the 'drive train' is simpler in construction.
* they give a smug satisfaction to members of the Church of Green and the Church of Global Warming.

of course they come with a few disadvantages:
* they have limited practical range, due to their long refueling cycles.
* they are quiet. Pedestrians can't hear them coming. This is a particular hazard to the sight impaired and children.
* they are expensive.

They also have a few scammy claims:
* they use electricity, therefore they don't harm the environment with carbon based fuels.
^ Obviously, this is basically false. All electric cars do is transfer where you burn the carbon based fuels to make them run. The only exception is where hydroelectric power is widely available, such as here in the Pacific NW. That only works of course if there are not very many on the road.

* they have great range.
^ They have a similar range as ONE fill up of a similar sized gasoline car. After that they must be refueled. Electric cars take several hours. Gasoline cars can be refueled in a few minutes, giving them virtually unlimited range. Cross country trips are not practical in electric cars.

* they last a long time
^ The practical lifespan of an electric car is the lifespan of its batteries, which will normally last about 10 years. Range will be reduced in as little as 5 years. Most people replace their gasoline cars in about the same amount of time. There are those driving around in 60 year old gasoline cars, and some do a beautiful job of restoring them. Few will bother with restoring an electric car.

* they are easier on the environment.
^ The lithium oxide to make the batteries must mined. Typically, open pit mines are used. The car must be light, so a lot of aluminum is used (same for gasoline cars), so bauxite must be mined. These are also often open pit mines. The plastics, including the insulation for the wiring and the interior for both cars come from petroleum products. Upon disposal, practically everything in a gasoline car is recycled, except some of the glass and interior. What is left is crushed into a hunk of steel and sold to make new (whatever).

Crushing electric cars is hazardous. First the batteries must be removed. They are not worth recycling (too expensive), so they wind up in a landfill. The rest of the car is treated as a gasoline car.

Which is better? Well, to put it simply, there is no 'best'.

Carbon taxes on gasoline cars, or subsidies on electric cars is just government price controls again. Price controls never work. It is fascism, for the government is dictating the market for cars.
Edited on 27-09-2019 21:24
28-09-2019 02:05
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
I just figured it was an indicator of what how most adult actual feel about climate change. Going with a greenmobile was popular in the Obama years, because of the reduced price, but didn't take, when the discounts expired. Generally, there are a lot of people who buy, simply because it's newer, different, or more expensive, than most of their neighbors. So how give the appearance of superiority. Electric cars just aren't catching on that way, least not in Florida. I don't think the long refueling time is the only negative. Probably not much in the consumer serviceable department, something goes wrong, you have to take it to the dealer. Which, from what I understand, isn't just an hour or so ordeal, like an oil change... Warranty work doesn't get much priority.

Just doesn't look like too many people are eager to make the change to electric, or even all that concerned about fuel economy. I didn't pick my Explorer, it was just the best running vehicle available at the time. Never really cared what the car looked like, just needed to work, I'll drive anything.
28-09-2019 03:44
I like the hybrids. Quick to refill the gas tank. Excellent mileage. Not expensive to buy. High quality.
Plus we won't need to build a lot of electrical infrastructure to keep them running.
Natural gas hybrid seems like a good idea. Never heard of anyone having one though.
28-09-2019 16:27
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
keepit wrote:
I like the hybrids. Quick to refill the gas tank. Excellent mileage. Not expensive to buy. High quality.
Plus we won't need to build a lot of electrical infrastructure to keep them running.
Natural gas hybrid seems like a good idea. Never heard of anyone having one though.

They are expensive, relative to similar sized gas vehicles. It took some large subsidies and incentives during the Obama years, just to get people to try them out. The free money ran out, not as attractive any more. They are still a trendy car, for those rich and devoted toward the 'green' scene.

I'm guessing in your case of liking them, doesn't mean you like them enough, to actually buy one though, since it wouldn't be spending less. Being retired, it's just more stuff, you don't need...
28-09-2019 20:00
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
keepit wrote:
I like the hybrids. Quick to refill the gas tank. Excellent mileage. Not expensive to buy. High quality.
Plus we won't need to build a lot of electrical infrastructure to keep them running.
Natural gas hybrid seems like a good idea. Never heard of anyone having one though.

The hybrids have some advantages of both:
* they can drive silently like an electric car.
* they can be quickly refueled, giving them virtually unlimited range.
* during commuting, they can get decent gas mileage, IF they are a plug in hybrid.

They also have disadvantages:
* IF they are a plug in hybrid, you are needing to charge longer for the same range than a fully electric car.
* IF they are NOT a plug in hybrid, you get about the same mileage as any car of the same size, but loaded with a bunch of crap in the trunk (due to carrying TWO power plants instead of one).
* They have the complexity of a gasoline car AND special transmissions to switch power sources.
* they do not have individual traction motors like an electric car, instead, power is transmitted through a central driveshaft, so performance in the snow is up to the transmission system and weight distribution (the same as any gasoline car).
* they can drive silently, like an electric car, and have all the risks associated with pedestrians that go with it.
^ Did you know that several electric and hybrid cars now have a chip and a speaker in them to make 'vroom vroom' noises, to alert pedestrians?

So the hybrid can fuel quickly, but you are carrying around the extra weight of a 2nd power plant all the time. This is why most hybrids have terrible cargo capacity and tend to be smaller cars.

The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan

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