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Electric cars...


Electric cars...12-01-2021 02:31
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3348)
With Biden's push for an aggressive climate change agenda, we could be all mandated to drive BidenCars. Hopefully, more affordable, than The Affordable Health Care Act. Imagining all these electric cars, charging, off a grid of solar panels and windmills, I got to remembering the gas shortages of the 70s, and how people had to buy locking fuel caps, and take their garden hoses in at night, or end up with a cur hose, and an empty tank. I imagine electricity will be in high demand, if even available as needed. I have to wonder if there won't be a way to drain off some of the stored energy, for personal use. Be pretty easy to get away with too, unless caught in the act. Hard to tell if you hook your car up wrong, blackout, some battery protection crap.
12-01-2021 03:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15455)
HarveyH55 wrote:
With Biden's push for an aggressive climate change agenda, we could be all mandated to drive BidenCars. Hopefully, more affordable, than The Affordable Health Care Act. Imagining all these electric cars, charging, off a grid of solar panels and windmills, I got to remembering the gas shortages of the 70s, and how people had to buy locking fuel caps, and take their garden hoses in at night, or end up with a cur hose, and an empty tank. I imagine electricity will be in high demand, if even available as needed. I have to wonder if there won't be a way to drain off some of the stored energy, for personal use. Be pretty easy to get away with too, unless caught in the act. Hard to tell if you hook your car up wrong, blackout, some battery protection crap.


Forcing everyone onto electric cars and banning the internal combustion engine and the external combustion engine will simply result in a total collapse of the economy.

There will be no trucks. No tractors. No trains. No ships. No aircraft. No practical cross country travel at all. No industrial equipment operating at all.

This is the future proposed in the SOTC. There is already rebellion.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
12-01-2021 06:13
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9030)
Into the Night wrote: There will be no trucks. No tractors. No trains. No ships. No aircraft. No practical cross country travel at all. No industrial equipment operating at all.

It's almost as though we will have to hide in our basements.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-01-2021 10:49
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3348)
Fairly certain that basement-dwelling will be a first 100 days mandate... Be so much easier to have the National Guard go door-to-door, and vaccinate the masses, maybe 'inspect' your gun and ammo collection...

I don't think he'll ban all internal combustion engines, just personal transportation. Of course, there will be exemptions, for the the rich and influential, until their wealth gets redistributed.

Our power grid system, relies on being able to control a constant, and reliable source, for a variable demand. Solar panels and windmills are variable, unreliable sources, and many feeding the grid. The more we add to the grid, the less control we have over the supply, and the more blackouts we experience. The new normal... Figure there will be various schemes to mitigate the blackouts, for those who can afford them. But shortages, also encourage other alternatives, like stealing. Use to be pretty easy to shove a hose into your own tank, and pull out a couple gallons, for your lawnmower, or to help a stranded motorist. Got difficult, almost impossible, by the 90s, since gas theft continued to be a huge problem, even without a shortage problem at the pumps. Gas just got expensive, people continue to steal. I just figure there will be a similar movement with electric cars. They are pretty useless, if you can't keep them charged, or it's expensive, when electricity is available.
12-01-2021 13:36
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1104)
The Hybrids go O.K.My son hires a Camry on his week off and it takes less than $10 to top it back up after a week as it mostly runs on the electric
13-01-2021 00:38
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15455)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Fairly certain that basement-dwelling will be a first 100 days mandate... Be so much easier to have the National Guard go door-to-door, and vaccinate the masses, maybe 'inspect' your gun and ammo collection...

I don't think he'll ban all internal combustion engines, just personal transportation. Of course, there will be exemptions, for the the rich and influential, until their wealth gets redistributed.

Our power grid system, relies on being able to control a constant, and reliable source, for a variable demand. Solar panels and windmills are variable, unreliable sources, and many feeding the grid. The more we add to the grid, the less control we have over the supply, and the more blackouts we experience. The new normal... Figure there will be various schemes to mitigate the blackouts, for those who can afford them. But shortages, also encourage other alternatives, like stealing. Use to be pretty easy to shove a hose into your own tank, and pull out a couple gallons, for your lawnmower, or to help a stranded motorist. Got difficult, almost impossible, by the 90s, since gas theft continued to be a huge problem, even without a shortage problem at the pumps. Gas just got expensive, people continue to steal. I just figure there will be a similar movement with electric cars. They are pretty useless, if you can't keep them charged, or it's expensive, when electricity is available.

The plan is to ban all internal and external combustion engines. They want to completely eliminate the use of coal, oil, or natural gas.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
13-01-2021 00:40
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15455)
duncan61 wrote:
The Hybrids go O.K.My son hires a Camry on his week off and it takes less than $10 to top it back up after a week as it mostly runs on the electric

These cars will be banned. They have internal combustion engines and use gasoline. They are nothing but gasoline cars with a large battery buffer. They actually have a lower gas mileage than a similar sized car, due to carrying around the huge battery and two power plants.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
13-01-2021 02:51
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3348)
Something I've always wondered about hybrids. They market them as charging off the gas engine, but there is also a charging port for the battery. Do you still mainly have to plug it in to charge, or does driving it on gas, usually keep he battery charged?
13-01-2021 09:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15455)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Something I've always wondered about hybrids. They market them as charging off the gas engine, but there is also a charging port for the battery. Do you still mainly have to plug it in to charge, or does driving it on gas, usually keep he battery charged?

Driving them on gasoline charges the battery. The only difference is that it's a much bigger battery.

You can charge any car battery from house current using a charger.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
14-01-2021 01:46
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(424)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Something I've always wondered about hybrids. They market them as charging off the gas engine, but there is also a charging port for the battery. Do you still mainly have to plug it in to charge, or does driving it on gas, usually keep he battery charged?


There are two type of hybrids - plug-in or not plug-in hybrids. The not plug-in hybrid uses only gasoline energy to move the car. With plug-in hybrid you can also use electrical energy from the grid when charging the battery from the grid.
The efficiency of the not plug-in hybrids comes from the fact that ICE engine wastes fuel when it is not operating at optimal range. It is more efficient to charge the battery with gasoline engine working on optimal load and use the electric motors during city driving while the engine works unefficiently. On the road it does not matter at all. The bad thing is that the amount of fuel you save with such car is miniscule. It turns out to be a lot of trouble for almost nothing.
Cylinder deactivation system is also quite similarily used to save fuel. For example deactivating 2 cylinders from 4 at low load (at which the engine works unefficiently) rises the load in 2 active cylinders and the efficiency rises. The effect is of course again miniscule but some people are fooled by salesman who talks about beautiful words like " cylinder deactivation, twin-spark etc etc"
14-01-2021 04:17
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3348)
There is no free lunch, where energy is concerned. I figured very few people, in a very narrow market could actually benefit from hybrids. For the most part, there really isn't any significant improvement. You can improve your gas mileage pretty significantly, just by changing some of your driving habits. Would doubt that there are cars, which use the same engine, as the average gas-guzzler, but designed to force people to drive more economically. I never really paid that much attention, gas was never a budget-breaker, and I like to have fun driving.
14-01-2021 06:44
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9030)
HarveyH55 wrote:There is no free lunch, where energy is concerned.

The technical term is "the 2nd law of thermodynamics" but "there is no free lunch" tends to work better most of the time.

HarveyH55 wrote: You can improve your gas mileage pretty significantly, just by changing some of your driving habits.

... especially if one of those habits is to drive a bicycle.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
14-01-2021 07:35
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1104)
I am going to disagree with you for the first time Harvey.I get UBER a lot and they are usually hybrids and they go like rockets and are super economical.The battery will last a long time then the engine will kick in for a while and fully recharge the battery.I went to the casino in one and I asked the driver about it and he planted his boot on the freeway and I heard the petrol engine come on and the battery meter started going up straight away.No one is forcing anyone to have one but if you are doing UBER ride sharing you will not make a lot running a conventional car.
14-01-2021 08:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15455)
Xadoman wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Something I've always wondered about hybrids. They market them as charging off the gas engine, but there is also a charging port for the battery. Do you still mainly have to plug it in to charge, or does driving it on gas, usually keep he battery charged?


There are two type of hybrids - plug-in or not plug-in hybrids.

There are two types of hybrids. Those that come with a shore power plug and those that don't. Both can be charged from the grid or from the gasoline engine.
Xadoman wrote:
The efficiency of the not plug-in hybrids comes from the fact that ICE engine wastes fuel when it is not operating at optimal range. It is more efficient to charge the battery with gasoline engine working on optimal load and use the electric motors during city driving while the engine works unefficiently. On the road it does not matter at all. The bad thing is that the amount of fuel you save with such car is miniscule. It turns out to be a lot of trouble for almost nothing.

Not really. Hybrids are no more efficient with fuel mileage than similar sized gasoline cars. They are not worse, despite carrying around a heavy battery and two power plants, but they manage to be about the same.
Xadoman wrote:
Cylinder deactivation system is also quite similarily used to save fuel. For example deactivating 2 cylinders from 4 at low load (at which the engine works unefficiently) rises the load in 2 active cylinders and the efficiency rises. The effect is of course again miniscule but some people are fooled by salesman who talks about beautiful words like " cylinder deactivation, twin-spark etc etc"

Shutting down two cylinders on a four cylinder engine will cause rough running. It does not save fuel, since the piston is still going up and down inside the cylinder. Opening the valves means it is still pumping air (assuming multi-point fuel injection), which is a load.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
14-01-2021 08:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15455)
HarveyH55 wrote:
There is no free lunch, where energy is concerned. I figured very few people, in a very narrow market could actually benefit from hybrids. For the most part, there really isn't any significant improvement. You can improve your gas mileage pretty significantly, just by changing some of your driving habits. Would doubt that there are cars, which use the same engine, as the average gas-guzzler, but designed to force people to drive more economically. I never really paid that much attention, gas was never a budget-breaker, and I like to have fun driving.


Drive what you want. Forcing people to buy a specific type of car or to use a certain type of fuel is fascism.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
14-01-2021 08:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15455)
duncan61 wrote:
I am going to disagree with you for the first time Harvey.I get UBER a lot and they are usually hybrids and they go like rockets and are super economical.The battery will last a long time then the engine will kick in for a while and fully recharge the battery.I went to the casino in one and I asked the driver about it and he planted his boot on the freeway and I heard the petrol engine come on and the battery meter started going up straight away.No one is forcing anyone to have one but if you are doing UBER ride sharing you will not make a lot running a conventional car.


You will not make a lot...period.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
14-01-2021 14:46
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(424)
Not really. Hybrids are no more efficient with fuel mileage than similar sized gasoline cars. They are not worse, despite carrying around a heavy battery and two power plants, but they manage to be about the same.


They are more efficient if you use the car most of the time in the city. The effect is of course miniscule.

Shutting down two cylinders on a four cylinder engine will cause rough running. It does not save fuel, since the piston is still going up and down inside the cylinder. Opening the valves means it is still pumping air (assuming multi-point fuel injection), which is a load.


For example Vw 1,4TSI shuts down 2 cylinders from 4 to save fuel. They say they save 0,5-1 litre per 100 km. In my opinion it is not worth the trouble. The system is quite complicated to shut those cylinders off. There are of course other car producers who use the same principle, for example Mercedes benz, which deactivates zylinders on their engines( supposedly the technology is from formula 1).
Also, the valves are not opened. They stay closed. Approximately the same energy compressing the air will be released when the piston moves downward(like squeezing the airballoon).
14-01-2021 20:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15455)
Xadoman wrote:
Not really. Hybrids are no more efficient with fuel mileage than similar sized gasoline cars. They are not worse, despite carrying around a heavy battery and two power plants, but they manage to be about the same.


They are more efficient if you use the car most of the time in the city. The effect is of course miniscule.

Not really. Joules are joules. It takes the same energy to move the car as any other car of the same weight and drag. Hybrid cars carry two power plants and huge batteries. They are heavier cars because of it. They require more energy just to move them in city traffic.Gasoline engine cars are lighter for the same size car, but they lose their efficiency in waste heat (at least more than the hybrid does).
Xadoman wrote:
Shutting down two cylinders on a four cylinder engine will cause rough running. It does not save fuel, since the piston is still going up and down inside the cylinder. Opening the valves means it is still pumping air (assuming multi-point fuel injection), which is a load.


For example Vw 1,4TSI shuts down 2 cylinders from 4 to save fuel. They say they save 0,5-1 litre per 100 km. In my opinion it is not worth the trouble. The system is quite complicated to shut those cylinders off. There are of course other car producers who use the same principle, for example Mercedes benz, which deactivates zylinders on their engines( supposedly the technology is from formula 1).

This takes work. Pistons do not have a perfect seal. That cylinder is still heated by compressing the air. The engine still has uneven firing as well, making it run rougher.
Xadoman wrote:
Also, the valves are not opened. They stay closed. Approximately the same energy compressing the air will be released when the piston moves downward(like squeezing the airballoon).

Still takes work. The piston is not a perfect seal. Neither is either valve.

Yes. The system IS complicated. It is typical of German engineers.



The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan




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