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Earth and the Refrigeration Effect


Earth and the Refrigeration Effect21-10-2016 22:12
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4328)
Wikipedia Commands the Congregation: Greenhouse Effect

The greenhouse effect is the process by which radiation from a planet's atmosphere warms the planet's surface to a temperature above what it would be without its atmosphere.


Any reasonable person must then conclude that the Refrigeration Effect is the process by which radiation from a planet's atmosphere cools the planet's surface to a temperature below what it would be without its atmosphere.

Wikipedia Further Commands the Congregation: If a planet's atmosphere contains radiatively active gases (i.e., greenhouse gases) the atmosphere will radiate energy in all directions. Part of this radiation is directed towards the surface, warming it. The downward component of this radiation – that is, the strength of the greenhouse effect – will depend on the atmosphere's temperature and on the amount of greenhouse gases that the atmosphere contains.

Any reasonable person must conclude that if a planet's atmosphere contains radiatively active gases (i.e., refrigerant gases) the atmosphere will radiate energy in all directions. Part of this radiation is directed away from the earth and out towards space, greatly cooling the earth. The outward/upward component of this radiation – that is, the strength of the Refrigeration Effect – will depend on the atmosphere's temperature and on the amount of refrigerant gases that the atmosphere contains.

A good example of the Refrigeration Effect is earth. We can compare it to the moon which is essentially the same distance from the sun and which has essentially no atmosphere.

The moon's surface substantially exceeds the boiling point of water whereas the earth's atmosphere radiates solar radiation away from earth and keeps all the oceans somewhere between refreshingly cool and a hypothermia death. That is powerful cooling! The earth has daytime ice and snow which would have a snowball's chance in Hell, as it were, without the atmosphere. That is a refrigeration power many orders of magnitude beyond anything humanity can generate.

I wonder why Wikipedia doesn't go into this in depth. Hmmm. I'm sure the reason isn't that the Refrigeration Effect is tantamount to Satanic sacrilege to the Greenhouse Effect. That couldn't possibly be it, could it?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
21-10-2016 23:22
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8697)
But that would mean the upper atmosphere like the thermosphere would be warmer than the surface! Oh...wait...it IS.
23-10-2016 20:27
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1295)
How does the surface of the rocky bit of Venus be so hot?

Given that the outer edge of the atmosphere is at about the temperature you woulde expect for a body at that distance from the sun, why is the rocky surface so hot?

Look, I get that the idea that anything other than the pressure of the gas above the surface is not required for the explaination of the temperature in this room but to argue that needs a good understanding of thermodynamics.

Don't bother. The AGW argument has holes in it big enough to drive a bus through. No need to nit pick about a couple of degrees.

Edited on 23-10-2016 20:28
23-10-2016 22:19
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8697)
Tim the plumber wrote:
How does the surface of the rocky bit of Venus be so hot?

Given that the outer edge of the atmosphere is at about the temperature you woulde expect for a body at that distance from the sun, why is the rocky surface so hot?

Look, I get that the idea that anything other than the pressure of the gas above the surface is not required for the explaination of the temperature in this room but to argue that needs a good understanding of thermodynamics.

Don't bother. The AGW argument has holes in it big enough to drive a bus through. No need to nit pick about a couple of degrees.


Ever notice that when you go up in altitude around here it gets cooler? The opposite happens when you go down in altitude. It gets warmer.

Venus has an atmosphere that is 900 times as dense as Earth's atmosphere at it's surface. This means it is MUCH more effective in not only absorbing incoming infrared (especially since it's CO2), but it is also MUCH more capable of being heated by the surface through conduction and convection.

The atmosphere of Venus is so good at moving heat around that daytime and nighttime temperatures are virtually identical, despite the nights on Venus being 116 Earth days long.

This is one strange planet, that never had an Earth like existence. Venus has always been the way it is. It's atmosphere contains no free hydrogen or oxygen at all. Trace amounts of hydrogen can be found in hydrogen flouride and hydrogen chloride. These are measured in parts per million.

CO2 makes up over 96% of the atmosphere. Since the bulk of the Sun's energy is put out as infrared, this makes the atmosphere a terrific absorber of incoming energy from the Sun. The surface is still the best absorber though, and, like Earth, transfers this energy to the atmosphere to lose it primarily through conduction and convection.

The temperature profile of the atmosphere of Venus is simpler than Earth, because there is no free oxygen and because the atmosphere is made up almost entirely of a single substance.

You have to go up in altitude on Venus to about 180,000 feet where the pressure is about 500 millibars before you start to feel temperatures that are Earth like. That's about the only thing that is, though, you are in the midst of sulfuric acid clouds at that altitude. It is these clouds that give Venus is 'shiny' appearance in the visible range of light. Viewing it from the infrared range, you see a very dark planet. It's like the whole planet is designed to absorb as much infrared light as possible.

It is this infrared light that heats any substance, including the surface of our own Earth. Visible light does not generally heat. It causes chemical changes instead. It is too energetic to simply start a molecule vibrating without causing changes in it. The bluer the light, the more likely the molecule will be damaged if it absorbs it.

Visible light generally isn't enough to kick an electron clean out of orbit, but it is enough to kick one high enough to make a chemical bond that otherwise wouldn't have happened. It can kick an electron out of orbit for certain substances.

Ultraviolet light is enough to kick an electron clean out of orbit, ionizing the atoms of a molecule, and breaking bonds without making them.

(for the pedantic, yes, electrons are in orbitals, not orbits, but for the sake of clarity, I use the older model)


The Parrot Killer
23-10-2016 23:36
Ceist
★★★☆☆
(592)
Well there's whacky ridiculously incorrect pseudoscience rubbish like the posts from the resident Sky Dragon Slayers above who have clearly never read an atmospheric physics textbook...

Or there's science:

Pierrehumbert, Raymond T., David Hafemeister, Daniel Kammen, Barbara Goss Levi, and Peter Schwartz. "Infrared radiation and planetary temperature." In AIP Conference Proceedings-American Institute of Physics, vol. 1401, no. 1, p. 232. 2011.

https://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/papers/PhysTodayRT2011.pdf



Edited on 23-10-2016 23:45
23-10-2016 23:46
Into the Night
★★★★★
(8697)
Ceist wrote:
Well there's whacky ridiculously incorrect pseudoscience rubbish like the posts from the resident Sky Dragon Slayers above who have clearly never read an atmospheric physics textbook...

Or there's science:

Pierrehumbert, Raymond T., David Hafemeister, Daniel Kammen, Barbara Goss Levi, and Peter Schwartz. "Infrared radiation and planetary temperature." In AIP Conference Proceedings-American Institute of Physics, vol. 1401, no. 1, p. 232. 2011.

https://geosci.uchicago.edu/~rtp1/papers/PhysTodayRT2011.pdf


Link War!

You will notice that what I am describing is perfectly compatible with this paper, right up until he makes the classic mistake of the one way Magick Mirror argument.


The Parrot Killer
23-10-2016 23:56
Ceist
★★★☆☆
(592)
Note that the resident wacky anti-science Sky Dragon Slayers never seem to be able to come up with any credible science source to back up their incredibly ridiculous evidence-free faith-based pseudoscience beliefs.

They'll come up with lame excuses like "Link War!" yet provide no links to sources to support their evidence-free pseudoscience assertions (because none exist), or post ridiculously dumb anti-science statements like:


IBdaMann wrote:
Nothing says "I am as dumb as a post" quite like demanding a source for science.


IBdaMann wrote: Evidence has no role in science


IBdaMann wrote:"Evidence" has no role in logic or science, only in conjecture, speculation and, of course, religion.




Edited on 24-10-2016 00:27
24-10-2016 00:42
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4328)
Ceist wrote:Note that the resident wacky anti-science Sky Dragon Slayers never seem to be able to come up with any credible science source to back up their incredibly ridiculous evidence-free faith-based pseudoscience beliefs.

Note that warmizombies cannot justify their beliefs in any falsifiable way that does not violate physics.

Note that this relegates warmizombies to lame attempts to shift their burden of proof.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
24-10-2016 00:54
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4328)
Ceist wrote: Or there's science:

Ceist, two questions for you to EVADE:

1. how does "greenhouse effect" result in additional energy (in the form of increased temperature) while simultaneously resulting in zero additional energy (to avoid violating the 1st LoT)?

2. How does energy directed in just the right direction result in additional energy?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist




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