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29-01-2020 20:09
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(6251)
keepit wrote: My assertions are correct. It's just semantics.


Obviously, like when you use the word "correct" to semantically mean "incorrect."

keepit wrote: The question is - does govt debt equate to dollars.


Let's work through this.

Let's imaging that the US pays off all its debt and all those dollars are destroyed for some reason. Then all other dollars get destroyed and there is only $1 left in the world, kept under guard at the US Treasury.

Question: How many dollars are there in the world?
Answer: one.

Let's further imagine that the US strikes a deal with Guatemala and now owes Guatemala $1.

Question: How many dollars are there in the world?
Answer: one.
Where is it? The US government still has it.

Let's further imagine that the US pays off its government debt of $1 by personally delivering the $1 to the Guatemalan embassy.

Question: How many dollars are there in the world?
Answer: one.
Where is it? The Guatemalan embassy.

Let's change it around and say that the US goverment decided instead to print a second dollar with which to pay the debt owed to Guatemala. The original is kept at the US treasury and the second, newly-printed dollar is rushed over to the Guatemalan embassy while it is still warm.

Question: How many dollars are there in the world?
Answer: Two
Where are they? One is at the Treasury and the other is at the Guatemalan embassy.


The moral of the story is ... that you are still batting 0.000



keepit wrote: The thing about printing dollars to pay off govt debt is that when you print dollars instead of more treasuries you don't have to pay interest.

The thing about printing dollars is that every dollar printed slightly decreases the value of all the other dollars in the world. The power to print dollars is the power to render them worthless.

Question: Is this Zimbabwean guy "loaded" or is he way short if he wants to buy a loaf of bread?



Question: In Venezuela has overprinting caused paper currency to become cheaper than art materials/supplies?




.


Sea level varies from place to place in the world - keepit

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-01-2020 21:17
keepit
★★★★☆
(1218)
IBDM,
I t sounds like you are fear mongering about the value of the dollar, the most sound currency in the world.
29-01-2020 22:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11751)
keepit wrote:
IBDM,
I t sounds like you are fear mongering about the value of the dollar, the most sound currency in the world.


No. A commodity is. You still don't have any idea what money is, do you?

Money is two things:
1) A representation of value, not the value itself. That simply means it can be used as a medium of exchange to make barter simpler.
2) A unit of account. That simply means you can set a price on something. That price is determined by market forces, including the value represented by any given dollar.

It doesn't matter if we are talking about dollars, yen, drachma, gold, clam shells, or pretty rocks. These two properties are what make money, money.

In 1900, an ounce of gold cost $20. One dollar was worth 1/20th of an ounce of gold.
Today, an ounce of gold costs around $1300. One dollar is worth 1/1300th of an ounce of gold, or the equivalent of 1.5 cents in 1900 dollars.

That's how far the dollar has fallen since 1900, and it continues to fall today. A 30 cent gallon of gasoline in 1960 today costs approx $3. A 10 cent candy bar in 1960 costs around $1 now. Casinos in Las Vegas no longer use coins or silver dollars in their slot machines. It's not worth running a hard count room (with all it's dangers!) for the fiddling amount of small change it's worth. Only soft count runs now (bills).

Why use gold as a comparison? Because gold is the one commodity that you can check it's purity (and therefore its value) easily. It is the reason it was such a popular currency for a long while (before the Federal Reserve).

Today, only ONE nation has a currency based on a commodity value. That single nation is Iran (they use gold). ALL other nations are like the United States, printing money without anything backing it.

That's okay as long as you are not printing money faster than the wealth of the nation itself is increasing. If you are, the value of the money MUST decrease. This has been the running problem with the U.S. government since the days of FDR. It is also the running problem in many nations, including China, Japan, Russia, the EU, and the UK.

Never before in the history of the world have so many economies been based on just a paper promise. What happens when a major economic power breaks that promise, as they eventually must? There comes a point in any pyramid scheme like this that trust in such a currency breaks down. People simply start using something else for money. That's already beginning to happen. People are already looking into things like Bitcoin, gold, silver, or some other thing to use as money. Some casinos in Las Vegas accept Bitcoin now as currency.

Money is not wealth. It is a representation of wealth. Can a currency crash happen in the United States? YES. So can a debt crash or a tax crash. The Federal Reserve is attempting price controls...on money itself.

Price controls never work.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 29-01-2020 22:31
29-01-2020 23:15
keepit
★★★★☆
(1218)
ITN,
That post was thorough and well thought out , i'm sure but i don't need "flying lessons" from you.

Too much semantics in it for my taste.
Edited on 29-01-2020 23:15
29-01-2020 23:19
keepit
★★★★☆
(1218)
ITN,
I just read that post a little more thoroughly and it's worse than i thought.
At the risk of being a smart a-s-, if you like Iran's system , move there.

There are so many flaws in your post i'm not going to waste the effort on it.
29-01-2020 23:35
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(6251)
keepit wrote:There are so many flaws in your post i'm not going to waste the effort on it.

Who do you think you are fooling?

Apparently you are eternally poised to launch into denial.

You are still batting 0.000


.


Sea level varies from place to place in the world - keepit

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-01-2020 00:13
keepit
★★★★☆
(1218)
Dream on IBDM.
30-01-2020 03:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11751)
keepit wrote:
ITN,
I just read that post a little more thoroughly and it's worse than i thought.
At the risk of being a smart a-s-, if you like Iran's system , move there.

There are so many flaws in your post i'm not going to waste the effort on it.


Argument of the stone fallacy. No counterargument presented.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 30-01-2020 03:02
Page 2 of 2<12





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