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Do CO2 Emissions Create More Clouds?



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30-12-2019 20:20
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
Spongy Iris wrote:Hey IBDM, you never heard mass can be converted to energy?

I have. This is why I am eager to hear your explanation of how the sun eradicates the matter of the clouds into nothing.

Please, do tell.

Spongy Iris wrote: You and ITN really like to enforce this debate forum like a spelling bee huh?

Are you tag-teaming with tmiddles? Is it your turn to assign bogus positions to me.

I have a great idea. Stop being a blathering idiot. Think for yourself. Stop pretending that you are some sort of scientific genius who is out to chastise those who like to discuss physics. At the moment you should be taking notes on what you are told. It is absurd for you to have any sort of commentary whatsoever.

... but please, tell me how the sun destroys the matter of the clouds.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-12-2019 20:37
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
Spongy Iris, since you have asked that we focus the discussion on how little education you have, answer my question without EVADING so I can better diagnose your "issues."

I believe that you should see a correlation between colder air flowing into a region and a decrease in the average temperature for that region.

I believe that you should see a correlation between warmer air flowing into a region and an increase in the average temperature for that region.

I firmly believe that if colder air brings clouds into a region then you will see a correlation between increased clouds and colder temperatures in that region.

I firmly believe that if warmer air brings clouds into a region then you will see a correlation between increased clouds and warmer temperatures in that region.

Do you agree or disagree?

Spongy Iris wrote: I already answered this deflection of a question you posed earlier.

No, you never did, because you don't know anything. In fact you probably can't read English and can't figure out what my question asks when the person who normally reads for you is out.

So, the answer to why you aren't able to learn anything is inseparably linked to your inability to answer my question. You might as well stop trying to get a seat at the adult table and just go outside and play before dinner.

Spongy Iris wrote: Have you ever lived in a frigid climate where it snows in the winter time and lakes freeze over?

I have. Have you ever lived somewhere where they would shoot you and leave you in a ditch just for being dishonest as you are here?

Spongy Iris wrote: It is observed cloudy days winter days are warmer than clear winter days consistently.

Nope. This is what you were ordered to believe when you were bent over furniture and had your WACKY religion reamed into you.

The truth is that you aren't even smart enough to know that no human has ever created a copy alternate universe, peeled back the clouds and took a temperatureto compare with the first reality. It takes a special type of stupid to think that has ever happened, i.e. "been observed" ... much less consistently.

Do your church leaders tell you that they have magical superpowers to just "know" what temperatures WOULD be in alternate universes? How is it that you believe only the stupidest, most insane ideas that your church leaders order you to believe but you deny reality in every respect.


Spongy Iris wrote:If you're not going to address this observation, and keep parroting that same line, why bother dude.

Dude, just go back to your church leaders, bend over and beg for more indoctrination. You deserve the life you have. Every time you become confused, just remind yourself that you are a moron.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-12-2019 21:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
I suppose radiation heat can pass through material and heat up the material in that process.

Sure. Why not?
Spongy Iris wrote:
If the heat is great and the material is thin it will pass right through and obliterate the thin material.

Heating a thin material (or even a gas) does not obliterate it (unless you burn it!).
Spongy Iris wrote:
The atmosphere seems like the freezer and the sun seems like the heater.

Nope. The atmosphere is not capable of destroying energy into nothing.
Spongy Iris wrote:
At the poles the sun has little power and the atmosphere has great power.

The atmosphere is not energy. It is mass. The Sun puts out energy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The sun barely passes through.

It lights up the poles just fine. Weather at the poles is usually pretty clear as well.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The north pole might get 58 inches of snow per year and it is much warmer than the south pole where it might get 3 inches of snow year.

The north pole is ocean. The south pole is land. There is also more humidity at the north pole.
Spongy Iris wrote:
There are things that are pretty predictable like the sun and atmosphere, and things that are pretty random like wind.

Even the wind is pretty predictable.
Spongy Iris wrote:
I have no idea what YALIF means. Is that numerology or something?

It's an acronym. Common ones I use here are:

YALIF: Yet Another Lame Insult Fallacy.
YALIFNAP: Yet Another Lame Insult Fallacy, No Argument Presented.
NAP: No Argument Presented.
RDCF: Repetitive Distortion and Contextomy Fallacy.
RQAA: Repetitious Question Already Answered.

These occur so commonly that I just use the acronym now.


Idk, ITN... seems like the sun's heat can burn off clouds into nothing..

Nope. The clouds become water vapor.
Spongy Iris wrote:
I don't think I meant to say the atmosphere can destroy energy into nothing.

Yet you did. Apology accepted.
Spongy Iris wrote:
But the atmosphere is everywhere,

It is not out in space. It is not on Venus. That's a different atmosphere.
Spongy Iris wrote:
and the sun is more concentrated to local areas,

The same sunlight is everywhere. Sunlight isn't something you can concentrate.
Spongy Iris wrote:
relatively so.

Not even relatively so.
Spongy Iris wrote:
So it's heat can't extend as far as the atmosphere.

Heat is not contained in anything. Heat is the flow of thermal energy, not the energy itself. The land heats the atmosphere.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Duh dude, more clouds form over oceans than land. It is irrefutable.

Irrelevant.
Spongy Iris wrote:
And Sorry for the insult.

None noted.
Spongy Iris wrote:
the wind gust forecasts change on a dime.

Wind is not a wind gust.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The sun rise / set times, absolutely predictable.

More or less. There are places they can be quite a bit off as well.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The GPS coordinates are always the same.

GPS coordinates can shift radically or even fail completely. They are generally accurate to +-30 ft horizontally in most areas, and +-100 feet of altitude, making a few assumptions.
Spongy Iris wrote:
And the humidity seems more predictable than not.

Just as the wind is.


The Parrot Killer
30-12-2019 21:08
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
Jeez IBDM,

You can look this up yourself but here you go.

small amounts of mass are turned into energy from the breaking up (fission) or combination (fusion) of the nuclei of atoms

If you want to learn a bit more you can look up some schematic drawings of nuclear fission plants, or even nuclear fusion concepts.

As for your other unhinged post, I'm sorry you can't see how your question has been addressed in this discussion.

Maybe you should take a break from this forum. It seems to be bringing out the worst in you.
30-12-2019 21:23
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote: Idk, ITN... seems like the sun's heat can burn off clouds into nothing..

Do you really think the water vanishes into nothing? Tell me more.

Spongy Iris wrote: I don't think I meant to say the atmosphere can destroy energy into nothing.

... but the sun can, right? ... directly into nothing ... like clouds.

Spongy Iris wrote: But the atmosphere is everywhere, and the sun is more concentrated to local areas, relatively so.

What?

@ GasGuzzler - if you are looking to beef up your signature, I recommend this one above. I'm just looking out for you.

Spongy Iris wrote: So it's heat can't extend as far as the atmosphere.

Heat "extends"? Does it stretch out or does it reach or what? Is heat collapsible?

Spongy Iris wrote: Duh dude, more clouds form over oceans than land. It is irrefutable.

Duh dude, there's more ocean than land. It is irrefutable.


.


Hey IBDM, you never heard mass can be converted to energy?

Really??? You think converting liquid water to water vapor is losing mass???
Spongy Iris wrote:
Although I doubt the H2O and CO2 gases rising from earth ever make it high enough to go through that.

CO2 does not form clouds on Earth. Water vapor condenses into clouds and vaporizes again into vapor. A cloud is not permanent.
Spongy Iris wrote:
You and ITN really like to enforce this debate forum like a spelling bee huh?

I rarely correct misspellings or punctuation, unless it's repetitive.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Maybe I will visit again in the new year to start a new thread, called, Is The Atmosphere A Freezer?

Sure. Seeya then!


The Parrot Killer
30-12-2019 21:26
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Jeez IBDM,

You can look this up yourself but here you go.

small amounts of mass are turned into energy from the breaking up (fission) or combination (fusion) of the nuclei of atoms
So you think the Sun is causing the clouds to undergo nuclear fusion or nuclear fission????
Spongy Iris wrote:
If you want to learn a bit more you can look up some schematic drawings of nuclear fission plants, or even nuclear fusion concepts.

Please describe how clouds do this.


The Parrot Killer
30-12-2019 22:49
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high? It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?
30-12-2019 23:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


The Parrot Killer
31-12-2019 02:57
James___
★★★★★
(2179)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


If theory is to be accepted, more CO2 does allow for more fog. Less O2 also allows for me CO2 just as more CO2 allows for less O2.
31-12-2019 03:53
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
Spongy Iris wrote:
small amounts of mass are turned into energy from the breaking up (fission) or combination (fusion) of the nuclei of atoms

Your belief about how the clouds are heated away by fission and their matter converted to energy is quite entertaining.

You are a moron.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-12-2019 19:08
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
small amounts of mass are turned into energy from the breaking up (fission) or combination (fusion) of the nuclei of atoms

Your belief about how the clouds are heated away by fission and their matter converted to energy is quite entertaining.

You are a moron.


.


Most thick clouds can't make it past the ozone layer.

Thinner clouds like noctilucent (night shining) clouds make it past the ozone, and are seen at maybe 50 miles altitude.

I'm pretty sure no clouds ever get past 60 miles altitude.

What would happen to H20 and CO2 if they they were exposed to the intense radiation known to be at 375 miles.

My thinking is that it would be obliterated. Perhaps you could say it is converted to energy...
31-12-2019 19:21
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1623)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
small amounts of mass are turned into energy from the breaking up (fission) or combination (fusion) of the nuclei of atoms

Your belief about how the clouds are heated away by fission and their matter converted to energy is quite entertaining.

You are a moron.


.


Most thick clouds can't make it past the ozone layer.

Thinner clouds like noctilucent (night shining) clouds make it past the ozone, and are seen at maybe 50 miles altitude.

I'm pretty sure no clouds ever get past 60 miles altitude.

What would happen to H20 and CO2 if they they were exposed to the intense radiation known to be at 375 miles.

My thinking is that it would be obliterated. Perhaps you could say it is converted to energy...


Have you any idea at all what makes a cloud? I suggest you start there before entertaining these outer space cloud fantasies. Just my humble opinion.


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
31-12-2019 19:24
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


There is a rapid cooling which occurs from around 60 to 90 miles altitude.

It appears to be such a great cooling, that the oxygen in that region becomes liquid or solid.

How do you explain this great cooling process?
31-12-2019 19:29
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


If theory is to be accepted, more CO2 does allow for more fog. Less O2 also allows for me CO2 just as more CO2 allows for less O2.


They say suffocating chickens in a sealed container by overloading it with CO2 is the most humane slaughter.

Poor Chicken Little...
31-12-2019 19:33
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
Spongy Iris wrote:
They say suffocating chickens in a sealed container by overloading it with CO2 is the most humane slaughter.

Because we know that they are very smart.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-12-2019 19:40
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
small amounts of mass are turned into energy from the breaking up (fission) or combination (fusion) of the nuclei of atoms

Your belief about how the clouds are heated away by fission and their matter converted to energy is quite entertaining.

You are a moron.


.


Most thick clouds can't make it past the ozone layer.

Thinner clouds like noctilucent (night shining) clouds make it past the ozone, and are seen at maybe 50 miles altitude.

I'm pretty sure no clouds ever get past 60 miles altitude.

What would happen to H20 and CO2 if they they were exposed to the intense radiation known to be at 375 miles.

My thinking is that it would be obliterated. Perhaps you could say it is converted to energy...


Have you any idea at all what makes a cloud? I suggest you start there before entertaining these outer space cloud fantasies. Just my humble opinion.


Where have you been? We been talking about what makes a cloud this whole thread.

Water vapor rising and clouds form when warmer vapor hits colder air.

AND, the presence of CO2 in the atmosphere leads to carbonation which makes clouds thick.

Hope you enjoy some nice bubbly champagne come midnight. HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Edited on 31-12-2019 19:42
31-12-2019 20:10
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
Spongy Iris wrote:My thinking is that it would be obliterated. Perhaps you could say it is converted to energy...

No. The matter changes form. That is all.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
01-01-2020 00:05
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


If theory is to be accepted, more CO2 does allow for more fog. Less O2 also allows for me CO2 just as more CO2 allows for less O2.

Sorry, I do not accept any theory in conflict with any theory of science.


The Parrot Killer
01-01-2020 00:06
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


There is a rapid cooling which occurs from around 60 to 90 miles altitude.

It appears to be such a great cooling, that the oxygen in that region becomes liquid or solid.

How do you explain this great cooling process?


Not cold enough, and no clouds are that high.


The Parrot Killer
04-01-2020 18:24
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:My thinking is that it would be obliterated. Perhaps you could say it is converted to energy...

No. The matter changes form. That is all.


.


Oh you mean it is just converted to energy?
04-01-2020 18:29
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


There is a rapid cooling which occurs from around 60 to 90 miles altitude.

It appears to be such a great cooling, that the oxygen in that region becomes liquid or solid.

How do you explain this great cooling process?


Not cold enough, and no clouds are that high.


Then why is the sky blue?

Nitrogen and oxygen gas have no color. But liquid oxygen is blue like the sky.
04-01-2020 19:04
James___
★★★★★
(2179)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


There is a rapid cooling which occurs from around 60 to 90 miles altitude.

It appears to be such a great cooling, that the oxygen in that region becomes liquid or solid.

How do you explain this great cooling process?



CO2. In the mesopause it acts like O2 in the troposphere and O3 in the tropopause. That's basically how heat is removed from the Earth's atmosphere.

for clarification, O is the atom oxygen while O2 is the oxygen molecule and hopefully everyone knows that O3 is ozone and is a part of the Chapman cycle.
Edited on 04-01-2020 19:10
04-01-2020 23:19
keepit
★★★☆☆
(969)
Spongy iris,
You said how do you explain the cooling in the upper atmosphere?
It's the result of the troposphere not releasing thermal energy fast enough to keep the upper atmosphere warm.
The failure to release the thermal energy is caused by greenhouse gasses building up. Meanwhile the sun keeps pouring thermal energy into earth.

Don't be fooled by some on this website who disclaim things that were never even claimed. They argue imaginary arguments against claims that were never made. Then they make their own false claims. Then they call you names. It reminds me of grade school.
Edited on 04-01-2020 23:23
04-01-2020 23:40
James___
★★★★★
(2179)
keepit wrote:
Spongy iris,
You said how do you explain the cooling in the upper atmosphere?
It's the result of the troposphere not releasing thermal energy fast enough to keep the upper atmosphere warm.
The failure to release the thermal energy is caused by greenhouse gasses building up. Meanwhile the sun keeps pouring thermal energy into earth.

Don't be fooled by some on this website who disclaim things that were never even claimed. They argue imaginary arguments against claims that were never made. Then they make their own false claims. Then they call you names. It reminds me of grade school.



RDF, FBIF, CIAF, MIBF, MIIBF, etc.
I would say they are all fallacies but there are MIB but for the purposes of non-disclosure they too are a fallacy.
05-01-2020 21:56
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
keepit wrote:Don't be fooled by some on this website who disclaim things that were never even claimed.

Don't be afraid to specify tmiddles' almost daily assignment of bogus positions to others, solely to give himself something to attack.

A full disclosure assists in knowing for what to be vigilant.



.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
06-01-2020 18:53
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


There is a rapid cooling which occurs from around 60 to 90 miles altitude.

It appears to be such a great cooling, that the oxygen in that region becomes liquid or solid.

How do you explain this great cooling process?


Not cold enough, and no clouds are that high.


Then why is the sky blue?

Nitrogen and oxygen gas have no color. But liquid oxygen is blue like the sky.


Scattering of light, not because of liquid oxygen. It's not cold enough for liquid oxygen.


The Parrot Killer
06-01-2020 18:58
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
keepit wrote:
Spongy iris,
You said how do you explain the cooling in the upper atmosphere?
It's the result of the troposphere not releasing thermal energy fast enough to keep the upper atmosphere warm.

Not possible. You cannot decrease entropy in any system.
keepit wrote:
The failure to release the thermal energy is caused by greenhouse gasses building up.

There is no such thing as a 'greenhouse gas'. No gas or vapor can decrease entropy.
keepit wrote:
Meanwhile the sun keeps pouring thermal energy into earth.

It is not possible to trap thermal energy. There is always heat. You are denying the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law again.
keepit wrote:
Don't be fooled by some on this website who disclaim things that were never even claimed.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
They argue imaginary arguments against claims that were never made.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
Then they make their own false claims.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
Then they call you names.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
It reminds me of grade school.

You could always grow up.


The Parrot Killer
18-01-2020 21:11
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
James___ wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


There is a rapid cooling which occurs from around 60 to 90 miles altitude.

It appears to be such a great cooling, that the oxygen in that region becomes liquid or solid.

How do you explain this great cooling process?



CO2. In the mesopause it acts like O2 in the troposphere and O3 in the tropopause. That's basically how heat is removed from the Earth's atmosphere.

for clarification, O is the atom oxygen while O2 is the oxygen molecule and hopefully everyone knows that O3 is ozone and is a part of the Chapman cycle.


Huh? There's CO2 near the ground and CO2 at 60 miles altitude.
18-01-2020 21:22
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
keepit wrote:
Spongy iris,
You said how do you explain the cooling in the upper atmosphere?
It's the result of the troposphere not releasing thermal energy fast enough to keep the upper atmosphere warm.
The failure to release the thermal energy is caused by greenhouse gasses building up. Meanwhile the sun keeps pouring thermal energy into earth.

Don't be fooled by some on this website who disclaim things that were never even claimed. They argue imaginary arguments against claims that were never made. Then they make their own false claims. Then they call you names. It reminds me of grade school.


The intensity of the radiation that appears to be lined up with Sun is reported to be great enough to heat gases at 600 miles altitude to 2500 C.

From 90 to 60 miles altitude, temperatures are reported to range from 1500 C to -90 C.

So there must be a process in that layer of atmosphere that is able to slow down the intensity of the radiation lined up with the Sun.
18-01-2020 21:23
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
Spongy Iris wrote: Huh? There's CO2 near the ground and CO2 at 60 miles altitude.

Did you verify that?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-01-2020 21:29
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


There is a rapid cooling which occurs from around 60 to 90 miles altitude.

It appears to be such a great cooling, that the oxygen in that region becomes liquid or solid.

How do you explain this great cooling process?


Not cold enough, and no clouds are that high.


Then why is the sky blue?

Nitrogen and oxygen gas have no color. But liquid oxygen is blue like the sky.


Scattering of light, not because of liquid oxygen. It's not cold enough for liquid oxygen.


The Sun is white dude.

What are the blue objects that scatter blue light?

And on another note, what are the reddish orangeish pinkish yellowish objects that scatter such light at Sun rise and set?
18-01-2020 21:32
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Spongy iris,
You said how do you explain the cooling in the upper atmosphere?
It's the result of the troposphere not releasing thermal energy fast enough to keep the upper atmosphere warm.

Not possible. You cannot decrease entropy in any system.
keepit wrote:
The failure to release the thermal energy is caused by greenhouse gasses building up.

There is no such thing as a 'greenhouse gas'. No gas or vapor can decrease entropy.
keepit wrote:
Meanwhile the sun keeps pouring thermal energy into earth.

It is not possible to trap thermal energy. There is always heat. You are denying the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law again.
keepit wrote:
Don't be fooled by some on this website who disclaim things that were never even claimed.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
They argue imaginary arguments against claims that were never made.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
Then they make their own false claims.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
Then they call you names.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
It reminds me of grade school.

You could always grow up.


I'm changing a position I started this thread with.

Clouds don't trap heat.

Clouds block cold.
18-01-2020 22:10
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


There is a rapid cooling which occurs from around 60 to 90 miles altitude.

It appears to be such a great cooling, that the oxygen in that region becomes liquid or solid.

How do you explain this great cooling process?


Not cold enough, and no clouds are that high.


Then why is the sky blue?

Nitrogen and oxygen gas have no color. But liquid oxygen is blue like the sky.


Scattering of light, not because of liquid oxygen. It's not cold enough for liquid oxygen.


The Sun is white dude.

Actually a sort of yellow-white...an effect of blue light scatter. Out in space, the Sun is white.
Spongy Iris wrote:
What are the blue objects that scatter blue light?

None. Scattering simply occurs from the gases in the atmosphere. We just see a blue sky since blue is more easily scattered than red.
Spongy Iris wrote:
And on another note, what are the reddish orangeish pinkish yellowish objects that scatter such light at Sun rise and set?

Scattering can also filter. The same atmosphere also filters sunlight due to scattering. High frequencies are filtered out more than lower frequencies. At sunset (and sunrise), the Sun is shining through the most atmosphere for our viewpoint (due to the angle). The result is that so much blue light is scattered the Sun appears redder.


The Parrot Killer
18-01-2020 22:11
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote: Huh? There's CO2 near the ground and CO2 at 60 miles altitude.

Did you verify that?


.


There probably is a barrier the CO2 rising can't get past.

60 miles altitude is an approximate average estimate of that barrier point.
Edited on 18-01-2020 23:07
18-01-2020 22:12
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Spongy iris,
You said how do you explain the cooling in the upper atmosphere?
It's the result of the troposphere not releasing thermal energy fast enough to keep the upper atmosphere warm.

Not possible. You cannot decrease entropy in any system.
keepit wrote:
The failure to release the thermal energy is caused by greenhouse gasses building up.

There is no such thing as a 'greenhouse gas'. No gas or vapor can decrease entropy.
keepit wrote:
Meanwhile the sun keeps pouring thermal energy into earth.

It is not possible to trap thermal energy. There is always heat. You are denying the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law again.
keepit wrote:
Don't be fooled by some on this website who disclaim things that were never even claimed.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
They argue imaginary arguments against claims that were never made.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
Then they make their own false claims.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
Then they call you names.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
It reminds me of grade school.

You could always grow up.


I'm changing a position I started this thread with.

Clouds don't trap heat.

Clouds block cold.

You can't block cold. Cold is a relative void of thermal energy.


The Parrot Killer
18-01-2020 23:49
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


There is a rapid cooling which occurs from around 60 to 90 miles altitude.

It appears to be such a great cooling, that the oxygen in that region becomes liquid or solid.

How do you explain this great cooling process?


Not cold enough, and no clouds are that high.


Then why is the sky blue?

Nitrogen and oxygen gas have no color. But liquid oxygen is blue like the sky.


Scattering of light, not because of liquid oxygen. It's not cold enough for liquid oxygen.


The Sun is white dude.

Actually a sort of yellow-white...an effect of blue light scatter. Out in space, the Sun is white.
Spongy Iris wrote:
What are the blue objects that scatter blue light?

None. Scattering simply occurs from the gases in the atmosphere. We just see a blue sky since blue is more easily scattered than red.
Spongy Iris wrote:
And on another note, what are the reddish orangeish pinkish yellowish objects that scatter such light at Sun rise and set?

Scattering can also filter. The same atmosphere also filters sunlight due to scattering. High frequencies are filtered out more than lower frequencies. At sunset (and sunrise), the Sun is shining through the most atmosphere for our viewpoint (due to the angle). The result is that so much blue light is scattered the Sun appears redder.


You have to have a pretty thick smoke screen or opaque filter to make the Sun appear as pink or orange. It almost always appears as white (or usually blocked by white or gray clouds if you live in the dim Seattle area).

Frequency or intensity of radiation is invisible, but we are talking about visible light, such as the color of the sky and sun which you can see with your eyes.

The gases in the atmosphere, mostly nitrogen, are clear.

Oxygen is blue like the sky in its liquid or solid form.

What gases could possibly make the sky look orange?
18-01-2020 23:55
Spongy Iris
★☆☆☆☆
(61)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Spongy iris,
You said how do you explain the cooling in the upper atmosphere?
It's the result of the troposphere not releasing thermal energy fast enough to keep the upper atmosphere warm.

Not possible. You cannot decrease entropy in any system.
keepit wrote:
The failure to release the thermal energy is caused by greenhouse gasses building up.

There is no such thing as a 'greenhouse gas'. No gas or vapor can decrease entropy.
keepit wrote:
Meanwhile the sun keeps pouring thermal energy into earth.

It is not possible to trap thermal energy. There is always heat. You are denying the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law again.
keepit wrote:
Don't be fooled by some on this website who disclaim things that were never even claimed.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
They argue imaginary arguments against claims that were never made.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
Then they make their own false claims.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
Then they call you names.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
It reminds me of grade school.

You could always grow up.


I'm changing a position I started this thread with.

Clouds don't trap heat.

Clouds block cold.

You can't block cold. Cold is a relative void of thermal energy.


I don't recall you explaining the process of how "high frequencies are filtered out more than lower frequencies"
19-01-2020 01:45
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5682)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote: Huh? There's CO2 near the ground and CO2 at 60 miles altitude.

Did you verify that?

There probably is a barrier the CO2 rising can't get past. 60 miles altitude is an approximate average estimate of that barrier point.

Did you ever verify that?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-01-2020 06:22
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Hey ITN,

What would happen if water vapor were to reach 375 miles high?

It doesn't.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's known that radiation past that altitude can heat gases there up to 2500 C in the day.

There is no atmosphere that high.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also how does temperature become so cold , -90 C, by 60 miles high?

Too low in the atmosphere for direct heating by the solar wind, and air is generally colder the further away from the surface that heated it.


There is a rapid cooling which occurs from around 60 to 90 miles altitude.

It appears to be such a great cooling, that the oxygen in that region becomes liquid or solid.

How do you explain this great cooling process?


Not cold enough, and no clouds are that high.


Then why is the sky blue?

Nitrogen and oxygen gas have no color. But liquid oxygen is blue like the sky.


Scattering of light, not because of liquid oxygen. It's not cold enough for liquid oxygen.


The Sun is white dude.

Actually a sort of yellow-white...an effect of blue light scatter. Out in space, the Sun is white.
Spongy Iris wrote:
What are the blue objects that scatter blue light?

None. Scattering simply occurs from the gases in the atmosphere. We just see a blue sky since blue is more easily scattered than red.
Spongy Iris wrote:
And on another note, what are the reddish orangeish pinkish yellowish objects that scatter such light at Sun rise and set?

Scattering can also filter. The same atmosphere also filters sunlight due to scattering. High frequencies are filtered out more than lower frequencies. At sunset (and sunrise), the Sun is shining through the most atmosphere for our viewpoint (due to the angle). The result is that so much blue light is scattered the Sun appears redder.


You have to have a pretty thick smoke screen or opaque filter to make the Sun appear as pink or orange.

Nope. Just have a lot of atmosphere.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It almost always appears as white (or usually blocked by white or gray clouds if you live in the dim Seattle area).

Haven't you hear the bluest skies are in Seattle?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Frequency or intensity of radiation is invisible, but we are talking about visible light, such as the color of the sky and sun which you can see with your eyes.

Visible frequencies are visible. So is intensity (in the visible frequencies).
Spongy Iris wrote:
The gases in the atmosphere, mostly nitrogen, are clear.

True.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Oxygen is blue like the sky in its liquid or solid form.

Nope. Oxygen is colorless as well.
Spongy Iris wrote:
What gases could possibly make the sky look orange?

The same gases. It's the same effect, just more pronounced.


The Parrot Killer
19-01-2020 06:23
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(11013)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
keepit wrote:
Spongy iris,
You said how do you explain the cooling in the upper atmosphere?
It's the result of the troposphere not releasing thermal energy fast enough to keep the upper atmosphere warm.

Not possible. You cannot decrease entropy in any system.
keepit wrote:
The failure to release the thermal energy is caused by greenhouse gasses building up.

There is no such thing as a 'greenhouse gas'. No gas or vapor can decrease entropy.
keepit wrote:
Meanwhile the sun keeps pouring thermal energy into earth.

It is not possible to trap thermal energy. There is always heat. You are denying the 2nd law of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law again.
keepit wrote:
Don't be fooled by some on this website who disclaim things that were never even claimed.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
They argue imaginary arguments against claims that were never made.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
Then they make their own false claims.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
Then they call you names.

Like you do?
keepit wrote:
It reminds me of grade school.

You could always grow up.


I'm changing a position I started this thread with.

Clouds don't trap heat.

Clouds block cold.

You can't block cold. Cold is a relative void of thermal energy.


I don't recall you explaining the process of how "high frequencies are filtered out more than lower frequencies"

Smaller wavelength simply scatter easier than longer ones.


The Parrot Killer
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